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woman_n church_n seed_n serpent_n 1,735 5 9.3982 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A31449 Vindiciae vindiciarum, or, A further manifestation of M.J.C., his contradictions instanced in Vindiciae clavium being a rejoinder to his reply (to some few of those many contradictions) in his last book called, The way of Congregationall churches cleared, part 2 / by D.C. Cawdrey, Daniel, 1588-1664. 1651 (1651) Wing C1641; ESTC R23919 36,878 62

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translation_n office_n in_o the_o body_n ro._n 12.4_o 5._o all_o the_o member_n have_v not_o the_o same_o office_n which_o impli_v they_o all_o of_o they_o have_v some_o office_n though_o not_o the_o same_o true_o sir_n this_o be_v but_o a_o prevarication_n fos_n 1_o by_o body_n there_o be_v not_o mean_v a_o particular_a church_n but_o the_o whole_a church_n we_o be_v many_o be_v one_o body_n in_o christ_n and_o every_o one_o member_n one_o of_o another_o paul_n put_v in_o himself_o and_o he_o be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o your_o sense_n 2._o when_o they_o render_v the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d office_n they_o either_o mean_v it_o large_o and_o not_o for_o a_o special_a office_n as_o we_o take_v it_o or_o strict_o and_o then_o it_o relate_v to_o the_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n only_o as_o the_o follow_a verse_n may_v seem_v to_o insinuate_v whether_o prophecy_n or_o ministry_n etc._n etc._n where_o yourself_o and_o other_o do_v find_v all_o the_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o take_v it_o be_v nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n but_o rather_o against_o you_o when_o i_o say_v you_o add_v that_o explication_n whether_o it_o be_v their_o office_n or_o place_n and_o order_n in_o the_o church_n to_o steal_v in_o the_o interest_n of_o the_o people_n in_o some_o share_n of_o the_o key_n you_o answer_v it_o be_v not_o stealth_n but_o justice_n to_o give_v to_o every_o man_n his_o own_o the_o psalmist_n foretell_v it_o in_o a_o new_a song_n psa_n 159.9_o such_o honour_n have_v all_o his_o saint_n etc._n etc._n but_o you_o must_v first_o prove_v it_o their_o own_o and_o that_o that_o text_n be_v so_o to_o be_v understand_v
or_o else_o it_o be_v as_o well_o sacrilege_n or_o stealth_n take_v it_o from_o the_o right_a owner_n if_o the_o lord_n have_v not_o give_v they_o this_o honour_n as_o it_o be_v to_o deny_v it_o or_o take_v it_o from_o they_o if_o the_o lord_n have_v give_v it_o to_o they_o last_o and_o so_o you_o will_v have_v do_v with_o i_o you_o conclude_v it_o be_v not_o every_o place_n or_o order_n in_o the_o church_n that_o give_v power_n to_o receive_v the_o ordinance_n much_o less_o power_n themselves_o to_o to_o dispense_v ordinance_n as_o child_n and_o woman_n etc._n etc._n this_o be_v very_o true_a yet_o you_o assert_v before_o every_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n have_v a_o calling_n to_o put_v forth_o some_o act_n of_o power_n in_o his_o own_o church_n etc._n etc._n then_o say_v i_o woman_n and_o child_n for_o they_o be_v member_n too_o yea_o we_o think_v except_o but_o that_o of_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 14.34_o 1_o tim._n 2.11_o 12._o express_o forbid_v and_o we_o do_v not_o find_v any_o one_o thing_n grant_v by_o christ_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o man_n the_o common_a member_n of_o the_o church_n that_o woman_n may_v not_o be_v allow_v to_o act_v as_o i_o often_o tell_v you_o in_o vind._n clau._n 1_o woman_n widow_n at_o least_o who_o contribute_v maintenance_n may_v have_v some_o power_n in_o choose_v that_o be_v in_o your_o sense_n ordain_v officer_n 2._o to_o propound_v just_a exception_n against_o such_o as_o offer_v themselves_o to_o be_v admit_v 3._o to_o admonish_v in_o case_n of_o private_a scandal_n 4._o to_o judge_v with_o a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n you_o sometime_o allow_v the_o brethren_n no_o more_o key_n pag._n ●4_n they_o may_v tell_v the_o church_n they_o may_v consent_v and_o concur_v with_o the_o elder_n at_o least_o passive_o 5._o to_o withdraw_v from_o one_o excommunicate_a etc._n etc._n as_o be_v suggest_v to_o you_o elsewhere_o and_o now_o before_o i_o conclude_v i_o shall_v set_v before_o you_o a_o observation_n of_o your_o inconstancy_n in_o assign_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n the_o key_n be_v give_v 1._o to_o peter_n as_o a_o apostle_n as_o a_o elder_a and_o as_o a_o believer_n 2._o to_o peter_n not_o as_o a_o apostle_n not_o as_o a_o elder_a but_o as_o a_o believer_n and_o consequent_o to_o all_o believer_n 3._o not_o to_o believer_n as_o believer_n but_o as_o make_v public_a confession_n of_o their_o faith_n before_o the_o lord_n and_o their_o brethren_n the_o way_n clear_v part_n 2._o pag._n 39_o and_o public_a profession_n of_o their_o obedience_n of_o the_o faith_n to_o the_o lord_n jesus_n in_o the_o public_a ordinance_n of_o his_o worship_n pag._n 40._o 4._o not_o to_o believer_n as_o believer_n but_o as_o believer_n covenant_v and_o fit_o capable_a according_a to_o christ_n appointment_n m._n hooker_n suru._n par_fw-fr 1._o pag._n 203._o or_o as_o you_o here_o it_o be_v not_o every_o place_n or_o order_n in_o the_o church_n that_o give_v power_n to_o receive_v or_o dispense_v ordinance_n as_o not_o that_o place_n or_o order_n of_o child_n and_o woman_n etc._n etc._n whereas_o when_o first_o you_o begin_v you_o assert_v the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o peter_n as_o a_o believer_n and_o so_o by_o your_o own_o argument_n a_o quatenus_fw-la tale_n to_o all_o believer_n as_o believer_n you_o be_v force_v to_o make_v several_a distinction_n to_o help_v it_o out_o that_o position_n that_o need_v so_o many_o distinction_n give_v strong_a suspicion_n it_o be_v not_o the_o truth_n and_o now_o i_o shall_v conclude_v this_o second_o section_n with_o your_o own_o word_n let_v every_o soul_n enjoy_v such_o privilege_n and_o liberty_n as_o the_o lord_n have_v give_v he_o or_o her_z in_o their_o place_n and_o order_n and_o neither_o effect_n nor_o attempt_v more_o happy_a have_v it_o be_v for_o the_o church_n of_o god_n if_o this_o have_v be_v do_v 6._o the_o key_n p._n 6._o i_o shall_v but_o mind_v you_o of_o what_o i_o suggest_v to_o you_o in_o vind._n clau._n pag._n 13._o in_o your_o own_o word_n i_o pray_v you_o serious_o consider_v whether_o by_o this_o sacrilegious_a breach_n of_o order_n invest_v the_o people_n with_o a_o key_n of_o power_n even_o above_o those_o elder_n that_o labour_v in_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n to_o open_v and_o shut_v the_o door_n against_o they_o p._n 9_o of_o key_n which_o be_v the_o break_n of_o the_o file_n and_o rank_n in_o a_o army_n satan_n be_v not_o like_a again_o to_o rout_n and_o ruin_n a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o liberty_n and_o power_n of_o church-officer_n and_o the_o purity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o of_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n in_o they_o sect_n iii_o i_o now_o expect_v you_o shall_v have_v go_v on_o with_o vind._n clau._n and_o have_v vindicate_v your_o book_n and_o self_n from_o those_o other_o many_o wickedness_n and_o contradiction_n charge_v i_o still_o think_v just_o upon_o you_o but_o you_o fair_o if_o you_o do_v not_o rather_o in_o way_n of_o revenge_n shake_v hand_n with_o i_o or_o rather_o slight_o shake_v i_o off_o and_o never_o meet_v again_o and_o this_o be_v the_o more_o remarkable_a because_o you_o promise_v at_o least_o three_o time_n with_o attestation_n of_o the_o name_n of_o god_n twice_o at_o least_o pag._n 15._o and_o pag._n 16._o and_o again_o pag._n 19_o a_o further_a consideration_n of_o they_o in_o the_o first_o place_n thus_o when_v vindex_n take_v in_o hand_n to_o evade_v the_o scripture_n allege_v i_o shall_v return_v he_o god_n will_v further_o answer_v in_o the_o second_o place_n thus_o again_o what_o reason_n there_o be_v for_o their_o the_o brethren_n power_n in_o church-censure_n we_o shall_v further_o consider_v god_n will_v in_o its_o place_n to_o which_o place_n you_o never_o come_v near_o be_v not_o this_o to_o take_v god_n name_n in_o vain_a and_o new_a in_o the_o three_o section_n you_o promise_v though_o you_o undertake_v those_o two_o reverend_a antagonist_n m._n b._n and_o m._n ruth_n yet_o by_o the_o way_n not_o to_o neglect_v what_o personal_a exception_n vindex_n have_v take_v at_o yourself_o but_o read_v over_o the_o follow_a discourse_n i_o find_v not_o that_o you_o do_v so_o much_o as_o take_v any_o notice_n of_o i_o or_o your_o threefold_a engagement_n but_o as_o if_o vindex_n be_v some_o contemptible_a person_n that_o deserve_v to_o be_v slight_v as_o his_o best_a answer_n you_o neglect_v all_o he_o i_o shall_v only_o say_v et_fw-fr si_fw-la ego_fw-la dignus_fw-la hac_fw-la contumelia_fw-la vel_fw-la maximè_fw-la at_o tu_fw-la indignus_fw-la qui_fw-la faceres_fw-la tamen_fw-la who_o both_o be_v charge_v with_o so_o many_o contradiction_n which_o for_o your_o own_o honour_n it_o concern_v you_o to_o answer_v and_o also_o have_v charge_v yourself_o three_o time_n to_o give_v a_o further_a answer_n beside_o this_o there_o be_v seven_o chapter_n in_o vind._n clau._n wherein_o you_o be_v not_o a_o little_a concern_v to_o give_v if_o not_o i_o the_o world_n satisfaction_n and_o you_o be_v please_v to_o answer_v if_o you_o have_v answer_v but_o to_o one_o and_o but_o to_o two_o section_n of_o three_o in_o that_o chapter_n which_o be_v a_o slight_n and_o contempt_n of_o a_o adversary_n not_o usual_o hear_v of_o and_o now_o i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judicious_a reader_n to_o resolve_v who_o deserve_v best_a personae_fw-la adversarius_fw-la litis_fw-la non_fw-la personae_fw-la and_o most_o just_o the_o name_n and_o title_n of_o vindex_n or_o avenger_n yet_o you_o give_v some_o reason_n of_o this_o slight_n and_o neglect_n for_o so_o you_o say_v i_o conceive_v it_o loss_n of_o time_n and_o labour_n to_o argue_v the_o question_n with_o vindex_n alone_o who_o exception_n so_o far_o as_o they_o concern_v the_o point_n in_o controversy_n be_v but_o collection_n out_o of_o the_o writing_n of_o other_o who_o have_v more_o distinct_o and_o elaborate_o dispute_v the_o cause_n i_o pray_v sir_n why_o do_v you_o conceive_v it_o loss_n of_o time_n and_o labour_n to_o argue_v this_o question_n with_o i_o do_v you_o mean_v your_o answer_n will_v be_v so_o unsatisfy_v as_o the_o former_a now_o will_v appear_v to_o be_v as_o that_o the_o time_n and_o labour_n will_v be_v ill_o spend_v your_o reader_n will_v think_v so_o if_o you_o answer_v no_o better_o to_o that_o remain_a then_o to_o what_o be_v go_v before_o and_o why_o do_v you_o say_v this_o question_n as_o if_o there_o be_v no_o more_o betwixt_o we_o then_o this_o but_o i_o most_o of_o all_o admire_v why_o you_o shall_v say_v my_o exception_n be_v but_o collection_n out_o of_o the_o writing_n of_o other_o i_o believe_v the_o reader_n will_v find_v my_o exception_n be_v collection_n of_o contradiction_n out_o of_o your_o own_o writing_n more_o than_o out_o
of_o other_o and_o i_o can_v sincere_o profess_v i_o consult_v with_o none_o or_o very_o few_o book_n of_o this_o controversy_n but_o compare_v your_o book_n one_o with_o another_o my_o own_o reason_n and_o judgement_n suggest_v to_o i_o those_o contradiction_n in_o they_o that_o leave_v i_o altogether_o unsatisfy_a in_o your_o way_n and_o at_o this_o day_n i_o be_o leave_v so_o still_o if_o not_o more_o confirm_v that_o the_o independent_a way_n be_v not_o the_o way_n of_o god_n that_o be_v so_o inconsistent_a with_o the_o scripture_n and_o with_o itself_o that_o other_o have_v more_o elaborate_o dispute_v this_o cause_n i_o shall_v easy_o yield_v but_o i_o think_v i_o may_v true_o say_v without_o vanity_n none_o have_v more_o distinct_o discover_v the_o weakness_n of_o your_o proof_n and_o your_o contradiction_n to_o yourselves_o in_o hold_v out_o your_o way_n than_o i_o have_v do_v nor_o be_o i_o at_o all_o trouble_a that_o you_o choose_v rather_o to_o consider_v what_o have_v be_v write_v by_o learned_a and_o reverend_a m._n rutherford_n and_o m._n baily_n though_o you_o sere_a m._n baily_n as_o you_o do_v i_o never_o name_v he_o more_o in_o all_o your_o follow_a discourse_n have_v you_o but_o make_v good_a your_o promise_n to_o consider_v also_o what_o i_o have_v say_v to_o vindicate_v yourself_o from_o your_o contradiction_n and_o to_o clear_v the_o truth_n in_o question_n but_o see_v you_o be_v please_v so_o to_o neglect_v i_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o be_v trouble_v if_o i_o conceive_v it_o loss_n of_o time_n and_o labour_n to_o follow_v you_o any_o further_o and_o consider_v what_o learned_a and_o reverend_a m._n hooker_n have_v elaborate_o write_v in_o this_o controversy_n only_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o present_v you_o with_o a_o scheme_n of_o your_o remain_a contradiction_n or_o contrariety_n at_o least_o note_v in_o vind._n clau._n out_o of_o your_o own_o book_n and_o then_o leave_v you_o to_o your_o choice_n whether_o you_o will_v reconcile_v they_o or_o confess_v they_o a_o scheme_n of_o contradiction_n and_o contrariety_n in_o the_o independent_a way_n 1._o the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o peter_n as_o a_o apostle_n as_o a_o elder_a and_o as_o a_o believer_n so_o the_o sense_n most_o fill_v the_o key_n pag._n 4._o it_o appear_v that_o christ_n give_v the_o key_n to_o the_o fraternity_n with_o the_o presbytery_n ib._n see_v also_o the_o way_n clear_v par_fw-fr 2._o pag._n 22._o 1._o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o peter_n not_o as_o a_o apostle_n nor_o as_o as_o elder_n but_o as_o a_o profess_a believer_n the_o way_n pag._n 27._o 1._o peter_n receive_v no●_n the_o key_n mere_o as_o a_o believer_n but_o as_o a_o believe_v public_o profess_v hi●_n faith_n etc._n etc._n the_o way_n clear_v par_fw-fr 2._o f._n 39_o not_o believer_n as_o believer_n but_o as_o believer_n covenant_v and_o fit_o capable_a according_a to_o christ_n appointment_n m._n hooker_n suru._n par_fw-fr 1._o p._n 203._o 2._o the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n the_o way_n p._n 1._o that_o be_v a_o combination_n of_o faithful_a man_n as_o m._n hooker_n 2._o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n belong_v to_o all_o the_o faithful_a whether_o join_v to_o any_o particular_a church_n or_o no._n the_o key_n pag._n 11._o 2._o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n be_v give_v not_o only_o to_o the_o church_n but_o to_o some_o before_o they_o ente●_n into_o the_o church_n th●_n key_n p._n 11._o 3._o the_o key_n of_o order_n be_v common_a to_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n keys_n p._n 8._o then_o say_v we_o to_o woman_n and_o child_n 3._o it_o be_v not_o every_o place_n or_o order_n in_o the_o church_n that_o give_v power_n to_o receive_v ordinance_n much_o less_o to_o dispense_v they_o as_o child_n and_o woman_n way_n clear_v par_fw-fr 2._o pag._n 19_o  _fw-fr 4._o ordination_n be_v a_o work_n of_o rule_n the_o way_n p._n 49._o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n both_o act_n of_o rule_n pertain_v indifferent_o to_o all_o the_o presbyser_n ib._n 49._o 4._o as_o for_o election_n and_o ordination_n of_o officer_n etc._n etc._n these_o thing_n they_o the_o brethren_n may_v do_v if_o need_v be_v without_o officer_n the_o way_n p._n 45._o 101._o 4._o ordination_n be_v not_o a_o act_n of_o supreme_a jurisdidiction_n but_o of_o order_n rather_o in_o h._n survey_v part_n 2.75_o 5._o the_o key_n of_o authority_n or_o rule_n be_v commit_v to_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o act_n of_o rule_n be_v the_o proper_a act_n of_o their_o office_n the_o key_n p._n 20._o the_o people_n discern_v and_o approve_v the_o justice_n of_o the_o censure_n give_v consent_n and_o obedience_n to_o the_o will_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n the_o key_n pag._n 15._o 37._o 41._o the_o brethren_n stand_v in_o a_o order_n even_o a_o orderly_a subjection_n according_a to_o the_o order_n of_o the_o gospel_n p._n 11._o 5._o in_o case_n the_o officer_n do_v err_v and_o commit_v offence_n they_o shall_v be_v govern_v by_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o brethren_n the_o way_n pag._n 100_o the_o church_n exercise_v several_a act_n of_o authority_n over_o the_o elder_n the_o way_n p._n 101._o the_o people_n have_v some_o stock_n of_o power_n and_o authority_n in_o government_n of_o the_o church_n the_o key_n pag._n 36._o they_o rule_v the_o church_n by_o appoint_v their_o own_o officer_n ib._n p._n 16._o  _fw-fr 6._o excommunication_n be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n the_o key_n p._n 16._o the_o church_n can_v excommunicate_v the_o whole_a presbytery_n because_o they_o have_v not_o receive_v from_o christ_n a_o office_n of_o rule_n without_o their_o officer_n ibid._n no_o act_n of_o the_o people_n power_n do_v proper_o bind_v unless_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o presbytery_n join_v with_o it_o ibid._n 36._o 6._o if_o all_o their_o officer_n be_v sound_a culpable_a either_o in_o heretical_a doctrine_n or_o scandalous_a crime_n the_o church_n have_v lawful_a authority_n to_o proceed_v to_o censure_v of_o they_o all_o the_o way_n p._n 45._o in_o case_n of_o offence_n give_v by_o a_o elder_a or_o whole_a eldership_n together_o the_o church_n have_v authority_n to_o require_v satisfaction_n and_o if_o they_o give_v it_o not_o to_o proceed_v to_o censure_v ibid._n p._n 101._o 6._o excommunication_n be_v not_o a_o act_n of_o power_n of_o office_n but_o of_o judgement_n nor_o a_o act_n of_o high_a rule_n but_o of_o supreme_a judgement_n seat_v in_o the_o fraternity_n survey_v par_fw-fr 3._o p._n 45._o as_o a_o church_n of_o brethren_n can_v proceed_v to_o any_o public_a censure_n without_o elder_n so_o nor_o the_o elder_n without_o concurrence_n of_o the_o people_n etc._n etc._n pref._n to_o the_o key_n pag._n 4._o 7._o it_o be_v a_o sacrilegious_a breach_n of_o order_n that_o commissary_n and_o chancellor_n want_v the_o key_n of_o order_n no_o minister_n have_v be_v invest_v with_o jurisdiction_n yea_o and_o more_o than_o ministerial_a authority_n above_o those_o elder_n who_o labour_n in_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n the_o key_n p_o 6._o 7._o there_o be_v a_o key_n of_o power_n give_v to_o the_o church_n with_o the_o elder_n as_o to_o open_v a_o door_n of_o entrance_n to_o the_o minister_n call_v so_o to_o shut_v the_o door_n of_o entrance_n against_o they_o in_o some_o case_n etc._n etc._n the_o key_n pag._n 9_o yea_o to_o censure_v all_o their_o elder_n without_o elder_n the_o way_n p._n 45._o etc._n etc._n as_o afore_o  _fw-fr 8._o we_o be_v far_o from_o allow_v that_o sacrilegious_a usurpation_n of_o the_o minister_n office_n practise_v in_o some_o place_n that_o private_a christian_n ordinary_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n public_o the_o key_n pag._n 6._o 8._o this_o be_v ordinary_o practise_v in_o old_a england_n and_o allow_v by_o the_o independent_a brethren_n yea_o they_o be_v but_o in_o the_o notion_n of_o gift_a brethren_n no_o minister_n to_o other_o congregation_n do_v it_o ordinary_o themselves_o  _fw-fr 9_o a_o particular_a church_n of_o saint_n profess_v the_o faith_n that_o be_v member_n without_o officer_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o all_o the_o church_n office_n with_o all_o their_o spiritual_a gift_n and_o power_n the_o key_n p._n 31._o 9_o as_o the_o key_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n be_v divers_a so_o be_v the_o subject_n to_o who_o they_o be_v commit_v divers_a the_o key_n p._n 11._o the_o apostle_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o apostolical_a power_n ib._n p._n 32._o a_o synod_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o that_o power_n whereby_o error_n be_v convince_v and_o condemn_v etc._n etc._n ib._n p._n 47._o 9_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n belong_v first_o to_o a_o congregation_n of_o covenant_a believer_n suru._n
whole_a multitude_n of_o believer_n whether_o in_o truth_n or_o in_o show_v only_o act_v 8.3_o saul_n make_v havoc_n of_o the_o church_n and_o act_n 12.1_o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v not_o any_o particular_a church_n but_o any_o of_o any_o church_n any_o of_o that_o way_n act_n 9.2_o which_o must_v needs_o signify_v the_o church_n indefinete_o as_o oppose_v to_o the_o world_n not_o any_o particular_a church_n nor_o be_v it_o the_o catholic_a invisible_a church_n that_o they_o persecute_v as_o such_o for_o they_o can_v not_o know_v they_o to_o be_v such_o therefore_o it_o must_v be_v the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n beside_o yourself_o unaware_o confess_v it_o in_o the_o follow_a word_n though_o the_o whole_a church_n or_o which_o be_v all_o one_o the_o catholic_a church_n may_v be_v visible_a in_o her_o singular_a member_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o this_o to_o confess_v a_o catholic_a visible_a church_n but_o say_v you_o so_o they_o be_v not_o a_o church_n or_o though_o it_o may_v be_v visible_a in_o the_o several_a particular_a congregation_n yet_o none_o of_o they_o be_v catholic_a i_o hope_v you_o do_v not_o imagine_v that_o any_o be_v so_o simple_a to_o think_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n can_v be_v see_v at_o once_o d._n a._n say_v well_o ecclesia_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la tota_fw-la simul_fw-la visibilis_fw-la the_o church_n he_o mean_v the_o catholic_a church_n be_v not_o all_o visible_a at_o once_o or_o at_o one_o view_n than_o it_o be_v more_o than_o visibilis_fw-la even_o visa_fw-la not_o visible_a so_o much_o as_o see_v i_o know_v you_o observe_v the_o difference_n but_o if_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v visible_a in_o her_o member_n whether_o in_o the_o particular_a person_n or_o particular_a congregation_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a visible_a though_o not_o visa_fw-la see_v at_o once_o no_o more_o be_v the_o whole_a world_n visible_a but_o in_o its_o part_n yet_o the_o world_n be_v visible_a no_o more_o be_v a_o congregation_n of_o many_o person_n visible_a that_o be_v see_v at_o once_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o say_v but_o the_o whole_a be_v visible_a true_o but_o then_o none_o of_o those_o particular_a congregation_n be_v catholic_a the_o catholic_a church_n be_v not_o visible_a as_o a_o church_n and_o the_o church_n that_o be_v visible_a be_v not_o catholic_a but_o 1._o if_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_a church_n which_o you_o suppose_v here_o in_o these_o word_n 2._o if_o that_o church_n be_v visible_a in_o its_o part_n the_o singular_a member_n which_o you_o also_o grant_v 3._o if_o the_o particular_a congregation_n as_o part_n be_v also_o visible_a as_o church_n 4._o if_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v make_v up_o of_o choose_v particular_a church_n which_o be_v visible_a must_v not_o the_o whole_a or_o which_o be_v all_o one_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v visible_a and_o then_o the_o whole_a church_n that_o be_v visible_a in_o its_o part_n be_v also_o catholic_a and_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v visible_a in_o its_o part_n and_o be_v it_o not_o then_o true_a that_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_a visible_a church_n it_o may_v be_v add_v that_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v not_o visible_a as_o a_o church_n but_o as_o a_o company_n of_o man_n assemble_v for_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n which_o you_o say_v be_v the_o covenant_n be_v not_o visible_a and_o once_o more_o you_o seem_v to_o yield_v the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n when_o you_o say_v though_o all_o of_o they_o the_o particular_a congregation_n may_v be_v call_v a_o catholic_a church_n or_o general_a assembly_n if_o they_o be_v meet_v together_o only_o you_o add_v yet_o i_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o say_v that_o christ_n give_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n all_o ecclesiastical_a power_n into_o their_o hand_n i_o shall_v indeed_o be_v loath_a to_o say_v so_o for_o i_o do_v not_o yet_o believe_v that_o our_o saviour_n in_o that_o text_n do_v give_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o the_o church_n at_o all_o whether_o particular_a or_o catholic_a but_o to_o peter_n to_o the_o officer_n for_o the_o church_n to_o thou_o peter_n i_o give_v the_o key_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n yet_o the_o question_n upon_o that_o text_n be_v not_o resolve_v whether_o by_o church_n be_v mean_v the_o catholic_a visible_a or_o invisible_a church_n see_v it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v take_v for_o a_o particular_a church_n and_n to_o this_o you_o say_v that_o i_o distrust_v the_o meaning_n to_o be_v of_o the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n expound_v it_o rather_o to_o be_v mean_v of_o the_o invisible_a mystical_a church_n but_o 1._o by_o my_o word_n rather_o i_o do_v not_o exclude_v the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n though_o i_o be_v sway_v by_o the_o reason_n annex_v to_o incline_v to_o that_o sense_n because_o that_o church_n only_o be_v build_v on_o the_o rock_n and_o against_o that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v never_o prevail_v whereas_o particular_a church_n may_v fail_v and_o i_o be_o not_o alone_a in_o this_o exposition_n 2._o visible_a and_o invisible_a do_v not_o specifical_o difference_n church_n but_o be_v as_o yourself_o say_v somewhere_o but_o adjunct_n of_o the_o same_o church_n whereupon_o it_o may_v be_v true_a of_o both_o that_o by_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n that_o be_v the_o church_n ver_fw-la 18._o may_v be_v mean_v both_o these_o as_o include_v in_o the_o same_o church_n the_o invisible_a in_o the_o visible_a but_o of_o which_o our_o saviour_n understand_v it_o be_v worth_a enquiry_n upon_o second_o thought_n not_o exclude_v the_o invisible_a i_o incline_v now_o to_o think_v he_o mean_v be_v of_o the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n the_o reverend_a m._n hooker_n confess_v himself_o incline_v that_o way_n by_o some_o passage_n of_o m._n rutherford_n to_o take_v it_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n though_o he_o deny_v a_o catholic_a visible_a church_n as_o well_o as_o you_o by_o the_o force_n and_o conviction_n of_o this_o argument_n that_o church_n be_v here_o mean_v which_o be_v build_v upon_o the_o rock_n christ_n by_o the_o visible_a confession_n of_o peter_n but_o the_o invisible_a church_n be_v not_o build_v by_o a_o visible_a profession_n such_o as_o peter_n be_v the_o proposition_n be_v make_v good_a by_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o word_n thou_o have_v make_v a_o confession_n of_o myself_o a_o rock_n and_o upon_o myself_o so_o confess_v will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n i_o must_v ingenious_o confess_v i_o be_o not_o convince_v by_o this_o argument_n for_o the_o invisible_a church_n be_v also_o build_v upon_o that_o rock_n by_o a_o visible_a profession_n such_o as_o peter_n be_v the_o invisible_a church_n be_v the_o same_o church_n or_o the_o same_o member_n with_o the_o visible_a and_o be_v all_o build_v upon_o the_o same_o rock_n by_o the_o same_o profession_n of_o faith_n true_a believer_n and_o false_a make_v the_o same_o profession_n of_o faith_n and_o the_o elect_n be_v visible_a member_n of_o the_o church_n though_o as_o they_o be_v elect_v they_o be_v invisible_a visible_a and_o invisible_a be_v in_o themselves_o opposite_a but_o not_o in_o several_a respect_n they_o may_v predicate_v of_o the_o same_o subject_n that_o which_o i_o observe_v from_o he_o be_v this_o he_o acknowledge_v and_o argue_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v here_o mean_v the_o question_n be_v whether_o the_o catholic_a or_o particular_a visible_a church_n be_v there_o intend_a for_o the_o catholic_a visible_a much_o have_v be_v say_v already_o and_o now_o i_o add_v from_o his_o confession_n upon_o myself_o so_o confess_v will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n what_o only_o a_o particular_a church_n and_o not_o rather_o the_o whole_a church_n yea_o rather_o the_o latter_a for_o the_o reason_n object_v against_o the_o particular_a church_n because_o against_o the_o visible_a church_n particular_a the_o gate_n of_o hell_n have_v prevail_v he_o answer_v the_o visible_a church_n be_v attend_v in_o a_o double_a respect_n 7._o ibid_fw-la p._n 2._o 7._o either_o as_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a congregation_n or_o else_o as_o a_o church_n universal_a exist_v in_o the_o particular_n and_o in_o this_o latter_a sense_n it_o be_v take_v in_o this_o place_n and_o then_o it_o be_v a_o sure_a and_o confess_v truth_n that_o the_o visible_a church_n do_v not_o fail_v if_o now_o it_o be_v take_v in_o the_o latter_a sense_n in_o this_o place_n for_o the_o church_n universal_a exist_v in_o the_o particular_n than_o it_o be_v mean_v of_o the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n not_o of_o a_o particular_a visible_a church_n see_v more_o in_o m._n hooker_n survey_v p._n 217._o if_o i_o may_v now_o declare_v my_o judgement_n take_v it_o thus_o upon_o this_o rock_n that_o be_v myself_o thus_o confess_v or_o this_o confession_n of_o myself_o to_o be_v the_o christ_n the_o son_n of_o the_o live_a god_n will_v i_o build_v my_o evangellicall_a church_n