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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
woman_n	church_n	let_v	silence_n	2,878	5	10.3040	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78612	A pretended voice from heaven, proved to bee the voice of man, and not of God. Or, An answer to a treatise, called A voice from heaven, written by Mr. Gualter Postlethwait, an unordained preacher, taking upon him to exercise the pastoral charge, in a congregation at Lewis in Sussex. Wherein, his weakness, in undertaking to prove all protestant churches to bee antichristian, and to bee separated from, as no true churches of Christ, is discovered; and the sinfulness of such a separation evinced. Together with, a brief answer inserted, to the arguments for popular ordination, brought by the answerers of Jus Divinum Ministerii Evangelici, in their book called The preacher sent. By Ezekiel Charke, M.A. and rector of Waldron in Sussex. Imprimatur, Edmond Calamy.	Charke, Ezekiel.	1658 (1658)	Wing C2069; Thomason E959_5; ESTC R207673	108,343	141

Congregations for the setling of which Of Schism p. 37 38. Paul stayeth so long And besides this The Christians of all Achaia saith Dr. Owen did belong to the Church of Corinth and assembled therewith as they could for the participation of Ordinances and the Church of Cenchrea cometh under the same name with that of Corinth Put this together The beleevers in Corinth in Cenchrea and in all Achaia besides are accounted members of the Church of Corinth by the learned Doctor to whom I suppose Mr. P. will subscribe and then who sees not that there must needs have been many Congregations belonging to the Church of Corinth 4 There was a great number of Teachers in that Church that speech 1 Cor. 4.15 clearly implies it and this argues that there were several Congregations for so great a number of Teachers to attend upon 5 The Apostle speaketh expresly of divers Congregations belonging to the Church of Corinth 1 Cor. 14.34 Let your Women 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 keep silence in the Churches Therefore there were Churches several Congregations to which the women of the Church of Corinth did belong Against this there are chiefly two Objections Object 1 1 Cor. 14.23 If the whole Church bee come together and all speak with tongues c. Therefore they were but one single Congregation Answ 1 The Greek is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and may well bee rendred about the same thing or for the same end and purpose n. to partake of Gods Ordinances Diodate saith to verse 31. yee may all prophesie c. namely by course and in divers or several Assemblies So saith Estius The Prophets were to prophesie in divers Assemblies and therefore it is said Let your Women keep silence in the Churches 2 I suppose none will say that all the members of the Church of Corinth did speak with tongues for then what need of an Interpreter and yet the Church here spoken of did so 3 Therefore here is a clear pattern of a Representative Church The Prophets as distinguished from the rest of the members are called the Church 4 Here is a clear pattern of Prophets in combination with and subjection to their fellow Prophets Let the Prophets speak two or three and let the other judge verse 29. Obj. 2 1 Cor. 5.4 5. When you are gathered together to deliver such a one to Satan Therefore they were but one Congregation Answ 1 The Text speaks not of the gathering together of all the members of the Church of Corinth but of the meeting of the Church Officers to excommunicate the incestuous person Authoritative binding acts of rule and government belonging onely to Church-Officers as is granted by the most moderate and learned of the Congregational Brethren The Key of Authority and Rule saith Mr. Cotton is committed to the Elders of the Church Keyes p. 20. alibi and so the Act of Rule is made the proper act of their Office Christ gave the power of binding and loosing to all the Apostles and the Apostles committed it to the Elders The power of the people is a power of liberty to joyn with the Presbytery in casting out or cutting off But authoritative power they have not Temple measured p. 35 And saies Mr. Noys A necessity of members consent doth constitute a Church excessively Democratical and renders the Elders onely titular Governours Hence it appears there was no need of the presence of all the members of the Church of Corinth to excommunicate the incestuous person 2 The persons that met for this work were to meet with Pauls pastoral spirit this suits the Church Officers not the people 3 Paul chargeth it upon the ordinary members as their sin that they mourned not for that sin 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and for their Elders neglect of discipline using the passive voice not the active as Mr. Rutherford observes whereby it appears that the members were patients rather than agents That some of the ordinary members were present at the excommunication may bee granted But that all the members of the Church of Corinth were present or bound so to bee cannot bee proved Nothing therefore is hence gained The Church of Antioch also appeareth to have consisted of divers Congregations 2 The Church of Antioch because of the multitude of labourers there Divers of the Teachers of Jerusalem come to Antioch being driven away by the persecution and the hand of the Lord was with them in bringing in Gentiles to joyn with the beleeving Jews Act. 11.19 20 21. They soon want more labourers Barnabas is sent to assist in the work verse 22. hee findes the work so great that hee fetcheth over Saul to assist him verse 25. Barnabas and Paul stay at Antioch a whole year teach much people and here Disciples are first called Christians verse 26 and returning they abode there a long time chap. 14.28 What more likely than that there were divers Congregations belonging to that Church since it needed so many Teachers and kept there so long men so eminent Planters of Churches Object Act. 14.27 When they had gathered the Church together Act. 15.30 the mu●titude together Act. 11.26 they assembled themselves with the Church Answ The first Text may well bee understood of the Representative Church to wit the Elders by whom the multitude might at their set times of meeting for the use of publick Ordinances be informed And if wee should understand it of the whole Church the Text puts no necessity upon us of understanding it of their being all gathered into one and the same place They might bee gathered into their several meeting-places and there bee informed of the successe of the Messengers by several of them The two other Texts may also bee so understood The multitude might bee gathered and informed of the Epistle in their several meeting-places and Paul and Barnabas and the other Teachers might assemble with the Church in several meeting-places some in some and some in others From these Texts therefore nothing can be concluded to prove Antioch's a congregational Church 4 The Church of Rome The Church of Rome likewise appears to have been Presbyterial There was one congregation meeting in the house of Aquila and Priscilla Rom. 16.3 5. and two others meeting in other places vers 14 15. and there is ground to conclude that there were yet more Congregations belonging to that Church 1 Because Paul saluteth several in this Chapter that seem to have been Teachers in that Church vers 3 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15. 2 The Faith of the Romans was spoken of throughout the whole world Rom. 1. which argueth them to have been a numerous Church 3 Their continuing sound in the faith for many years together when other famous Churches mouldered away argues the same Wee might also instance in the Churches of the Colossians Thessalonians Philippians But I shall for a conclusion mention the Churches of Asia 5 The seven Churches of Asia The seven Churches

I Answer no nor over their own Church neither But it is but supposed by him that the Brethren out of office concurred in making the Decrees They consented to the making of them or to them made and might use their power of Liberty as Mr. Cotton speaks but concurred not in the act of making them for if so they had been their Decrees but they are not so called but expresly otherwise Act. 16.4 Much lesse can wee conceive with Mr. P. that the Brethren concurred with the Elders in a way of the same nature assigning the difference to bee onely in the order of their concurrence For hence it follows that all in the Church are Rulers and guides and have the Key of Authority and binding power which is another absurd attainment wherein hee goes beyond many of his brethren and the vanity of which hath been already observed The whole Church here cannot hee saith mean the Synodical Church onely because the reason given for it the impossibility of the meeting of the Church of Jerusalem together in one place hath been refuted by him The Reader may look back and see what cause hee hath to boast and if his triumph bee but imaginary then hee hath brought in an argument against himself But you must not think that if he do shut out the Brethren from a concurrence of the same nature with the Elders hee hath not strength enough left him to prove that in this Assembly there was no Rule exercised and for that hee will but cast an interrogation at us Will they say that the Elders of a Classical Presbytery at Jerusalem did exercise Rule over all these Churches so far distant and not of their combination This being the Tail of his arguing a sting might bee feared in it but 't is quite unarmed Wee will not say so and yet hee gets not any thing by it for though wee say not that the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem singly considered did exercise Rule over the Churches concerned yet wee will say by his leave that these Elders and the Elders of the Churches concerned united in Synod and acting joyntly did exercise Rule over those Churches which appears both by the tenour and by the use of the Decrees Act. 16.4 So that Mr. P. is more bountiful than maketh for the profit of his cause in granting his adversaries to make the most of Act. 15.6 and Act. 16.4 For besides that in these wee finde not the Elders of the Churches concerned excluded but included and as one in the latter wee finde the Decrees imposed on some of the Churches concerned as ordained of the Apostles and the Elders which were at Jerusalem at the time of the making of them none excepted and therefore their joint-act of authority and rule Hee hath now but an answer to an Objection left him and therein hee comes off worst of all For to that which is said for the exercise of authority by this meeting over the Churches and accounted an unanswerable argument by most and which if hee remove not all his talk against that Synod is to no purpose that the 28th vers calleth the Apostles and Elders Decrees the laying a burden of necessary things upon the Churches Hee onely saies Let it bee considered whether there be not as much said of the assertion of the Pharisees vers 5. and 10. Which Gersom Bucer's answer in another case will suit well Quis adeo ineptire sustinuerit Who can chuse but wonder at his weakness to put forth such a reasoning as an argument and at his confidence to undertake a debate of that moment as is that which hee is upon whilst hee appears so much a stranger to the Laws of a true Syllogism and reasoning If some of the Sect of the Pharisees contending for the necessity of circumcision and keeping the Ceremonial Law are said thereby tempting God to put a yoak of Jewish bondage upon the neck of beleevers and this their imposition was not authoritatively binding Then when the Apostles and Elders say that they lay by their Decrees a burden of necessary things upon the Churches their Decrees are not to be accounted authoritatively binding But some of the Pharisees c. Ergo. This is his sad arguing of the deplorableness of which I need not any farther inform any intelligent Reader But there is nothing like a good courage and therefore hee concludes bee it how it may Thus you see how hard it will be to grant any more with Scripture warrant if we should grant Classical Elderships and combinations Which difficulty I suppose those that have considered what hath been said do not see at all But lest men should take his Supposition of Classical Elderships for a grant hee now returns to renounce them and tells us 1 That hee hath proved the most numerous Churches to have been congregational To which I answer I have disproved it 2 That they are called severally by the name of Church in the singular that is alwaies or else hee saies nothing Witness say I the seven Churches of Asia concerning each of which his words have been made to grant that it is said without reference to or reflection upon the rest hear what the Spirit saith unto the Churches 3 That the numerous Church of Corinth in particular was congregational To which I say witness 1 Cor. 14.34 Let your Women keep silence in the Churches What hee subjoyns that the body of that Church did exercise the power of the Keyes and that the Apostle 1 Cor. 5. wraps up Elders and People together with a concurrence of the like nature is gratis dictum as hath been shewed I shall adde Though the Apostle there mention no express limitation of the power of the Keyes to the Eldership it follows not that it is not to be understood for to whom should acts of rule be appropriated but to the Rulers A concurrence with them may be granted to the community in the use of their power of liberty as they speak but a concurrence with them in the thing of the like nature with the power and acts of the Elders hee will never prove till hee hath proved that all are Rulers in the Church and have a power of Office which hee will do ad Graecas calendas And if the Apostles silence there concerning the appropriation of the power of exercising Discipline to the Eldership bee an argument for the communities like power then the sole mention of the Angels of the Churches Rev. chap. 2. and 3. who are commended for blamed upon the neglect of and exhorted to exercise Church-Discipline is an argument against the communities like power therein and a far stronger argument against it than the other is for it in regard that here the Holy Ghost appropriateth the power and there hee doth not and so by this place the other is to bee expounded Neither hath any known Writer of note in the Church for these sixteen hundred years past until some of the late risen

Yet this vial is as yet poured out but in part as are also severall others of the Vials The dregs of them and of this in particular remaining to bee poured upon the beast in a doctrinal way by this Angel who shall give the last warning of Babylons instant ruine The effect whereof is that the earth is inlightned that is many more of the common people are drawn off from communion with Babylon and joyn issue with some of the ten horns fallen off from the Whore and hating her But as for her more honourable slaves and vassals they receive no benefit by the Ministery of this Angell but either perish in Babylons ruine or by the dregs of the vials poured out upon her associates Vers 2. Cecidit cecidit i. e. Paulo post casura certissime gravissime Pisc Here we have the summe of the report of this Angel concerning Babylons fall which is by way of anticipation set down as actually come to pass after the manner of the Prophets to note the certainty of it and the expression doubled to note the grievousnesse of her fall Vers 3. Here wee have the procuring cause of Babylons fall her abominable Idolatries and whoring seducings wherein shee continueth after convictions admonitions and threatnings Vers 4 Here t is observable Militaris exhortatio ut non solum ab ea secedant sed et acriter eam oppugnent Grass that the Holy Ghost alters the usual manner and way of witnessing against Babylon for here is no Angel but a voice from heaven It may bee vox è castris a voice from the campe God is mustering up his Armies and the warre is advancing to the very gates of Rome and now the voice of Providence doth thereby cry out aloud Come out c. By Babylon I understand with Pareus c. not onely the City of Rome but all those places that are under the power and jurisdiction of the Pope where his authority takes place and where his idolatrous worship and doctrines are submitted to and imbraced To come out of Babylon is to renounce communion with her in her soule sinnes and abominable Idolatries and to disclaim and reject the usurped power of Antichrist both in temporals and especially in spirituals The not doing of this maketh men her associates and will cause them to partake of her plagues Rev. 13.16 17. Rev. 14.8 9 10. and here Rev. 18.3 4. From these Texts I observe 1 That Antichrists sin lies principally in this that hee causeth all under great penalties to receive the mark of the name of the beast in their right hands or foreheads that is to own the universal headship of the Pope especially in spirituals So that no point of Christian faith must bee received unless warranted by his authority and whatsoever is stampt with his authority must bee owned though never so contrary to the Scriptures 2 The sin of his followers lyeth in this that they resign up themselves in obedience to the Pope and make him soveraign Lord over their persons rights and consciences in all things receiving owning pleading fighting for his abominable Doctrines worship and usurpation Kings themselves submitting their crowns to him and maintaining by their Laws and edicts his blasphemous doctrines and tyranny 3 Those onely are threatned to partake of Babylons plagues that partake with her in her sins And who those are the Holy Ghost tells us Rev. 13.16 17. All and onely they that receive a marke the name of the beast or the number of his name in their right hand or in their fore-head That is that own the usurped authority of the Pope and his doctrines and idolatries because stampt with his authority which whosoever doth to the death cannot bee saved Rev. 16.3 The Doctrine of the Church of Rome as set forth and confirmed for such by the Tridentine Council is this Sea consisting of the popish errors collected into one body as many waters meet in the Sea The Angell that turned this Sea into bloud might bee among others Martin Chemuitius who poured out his vial on it when hee wrote his Examination of the Trent Council And every Soul living in this Sea dyed whosoever owneth the Popish Religion as set forth by that Councill and dies in that Faith cannot bee saved for what the Apostle saith of one of its anti-Scriptural doctrines Gal. 5.4 may be said of all of them that rase the foundation On the contrary those that renounce the universal headship of the Pope and all his anti-scriptural doctrines as the insufficiency of the Scriptures the authority and necessity of his traditions justification by works praying to glorified Saints and Angels worshiping Images and Crucifixes Purgatory and Indulgences c. and withal abhorre and renounce his Idolatrous worship and profess themselves resolved to resist unto blood rather than hold communion with him in his sins All such persons and Churches are come out of Babylon already And among such are the Protestant Churches in England Scotland Holland France Germany c. professing the sound doctrines of the Gospel in opposition to Antichrists Idolatries How those Churches that disown and reject the corrupt doctrine and worship of the Roman Church and have sealed their witness against them with their blood being by their profession and sufferings the instruments whereby God hath shaken the Kingdome of the Beast How these Churches should yet bee Antichristian limbs of the Beast may well bee a Mystery to all considerate and unprejudiced men And whereas Mr. P. beleeves that none save a few separate Churches named Congregational are yet come out of Babylon which the Brownists Anabaptists Quakers c. plead each for themselves I have one text to offer to his consideration thereupon which is Rev. 14.1 2 3 4. 1 By the Lamb is undoubtedly meant the Lord Jesus Christ 2 Mount-Sion is opposed to Babylon the Gospel-Church to the Church Antichristian 3 The 144000 that stand upon Mount-Sion a definite number for an indefinite and have their Fathers name written in their fore-heads must therefore bee members of the true Church in opposition to the members of the Church of Anti-Christ who have his name or mark in their right hand or forehead 4 By their having their Fathers name written in their forehead is therefore hinted their keeping close in the main to Gods institutions in profession and worship in opposition to the Idolatries of the Antichristian Church Which further appears in that it is said that they are not defiled with women vers 4. that is with the Idolatries of the great Whore Now can any man say that those of whom the holy Ghost thus speaketh are yet in Babylon How can they bee upon Mount-Sion and yet in Babylon too 5 The 144000 signifie some definite number of the people of God that in all ages from the first rise of Antichrists Kingdome have cleaved to the Lamb and kept a true Church-State which is signified by their standing with the Lamb upon Mount-Sion with

The Kings of the earth assembled themselves together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So Psalm 49.2 Give ear all yee inhabitants of the world both high and low rich and poor together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Where t is plain that together relates not to the place of their assembling for what place can contain the whole world as an auditory but to their concurring in attention to the Prophets doctrin when declared to them Therefore these beleevers being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will not infer that there was but one Congregation of them but that they were one in heart spirit and practice Neither can that other place bee usefull in the service for which 't is prest that they continued with one accord in the Temple That same 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 confirms what hath been said to the other place and is exegetical to it And for their continuing daily in the Temple It teacheth us that as yet they had not cast off all the worship of the Temple but resorted thither at the houres of Prayer Act. 3.1 as before holding correspondency with the Church of the Jews so far as they might But it doth not hold out that the Temple was their meeting place as our Reverend Brethren suppose either for the feeding Disciples with the Word Defence of the nine positions p. 125. or the administring of Sacraments to them for neither of these would have been indured there Act. 4.1 2. p. 26. Obj. 3 They were all with one accord in Solomons porch Act. 5.12 Answ 1 The Text speaks not of the multitude of Beleevers but of the Apostles by whose hands miracles were wrought as appears clearly by what precedes and follows the parenthesis in the 12. and 15. vers So that the mistake is palpable in interpreting this of the multitude The Text distinguisheth clearly between the Apostles and the Church vers 10 11 12. 2 Were it granted that all the multitude of beleevers was there It follows not neither can it ever bee proved that they convened there to partake of the Ordinances of Christ as administered by the Apostles Or that the Apostles did there Administer them to them The work of the Apostles as Ministers in the Temple is still found to relate to the unconverted And no one place can bee produced that proves that they there fed the converted p. 26. Object 4 Act. 6.2 3. The twelve called the multitude of the Disciples unto them and said Brethren look yee out among you seven men c. Therefore at this time the Church did all meet in the same place and consequently were but one single Congregation Ans 1 It may bee questioned whether this multitude mean the whole number of Beleevers or onely the multitude of the Presbytery called to choose from among themselves seven men Authors of good note there are for the latter 2 Supposing the choice of Deacons to bee permitted to the whole Church of Jerusalem this will not help our brethrens cause 1 Because it cannot bee proved neither is it likely that all the Members of the Church both men and women did meet upon this occasion But that of the men as many met as would and could as is usual in publike conventions as in the choice of Parliament men c. 2 If every individual member met yet who knows not that many more may come together in the same place who by lifting up of hands or some other signal may give testimony of their choice of persons than can meet together in the same place to hear the word preached and in an ordinary way to partake of all Ordinances The whole multitude might on such an occasion come together and yet for the orderly use of all Ordinances meet usually in several Assemblies Object 5 Act. 15.4 6 7 12. Paul and Barnabas p. 27. were received of the Church by which Calvin understands plebem ipsam totum corpus All the multitude of the Church were present at the disputation for they gave audience to Paul and Barnabas and concurred with the Apostles and Elders immediately upon the conclusion of James his speech v. 22. Answ 1 What Calvin says will not serve your turn Peculiarem locum assignat Apostolis Presbyteris a quibus praesertim excepti fuerunt You might have seen by what hee subjoyns his meaning to be that they were received by the Apostles and Elders and some chief ones of the Members of the Church in the name of the whole Thus the act of the Lord Maior Aldermen and Common Council is reputed the Act of the whole City So also is the third vers expounded by Calvin and so to bee understood Communi Ecclesiae nomine adjuncti fuerunt comites of the Church of Antioch for who can think that the whole body of the Church brought them on their way 2 The Multitude that kept silence and gave audience to Paul and Barnabas was the multitude of the Elders with the Apostles met to decide the Question about which the Church of Antioch was troubled For vers 6. mentions no others The Apostles and Elders came together to consider of this matter and to them were Paul and Barnabas delegated ver 2. and they onely speak in the judging and deciding of this question for such power doth not belong to common members as shall be proved therefore they were the multitude that gave audience to Paul and Barnabas In vers 6. 3 There is not ground to conclude that the whole Church was present at that disputation Non dicit Lucas saith Calvin totam Ecclesiam congregatam sed eos qui doctrina judicio pollebant qui ratione officii hujus causae legitimi erant judices Your Reason brought to prove that 't is very plain that the whole multitude of the Church was present because the whole Church is said to concur with the Apostles and Elders in chusing brethren and sending letters seems to mee very obscure and not at all cogent For though the Apostles and Elders concluded then to write Letters and send Messengers yet it follows not that the thing was immediately done Nor that the Church was then present to consent to the doing of it There is no necessity that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should signify immediately upon the conclusion of James his speech no more than that so when they were dismissed which follows the end of the letter should mean that the messengers were sent away towards Antioch that night That which the Apostles and Elders determined then might bee afterwards put in execution with the concurrence of the Church had in due time and place by way of consent Or if the Letters were then drawn up and the consent of the whole Church was then given to it and to the sending of the chosen Messengers which cannot bee firmly proved yet there is no necessity of understanding by the whole Church here all the members of the Church of Jerusalem but some chief ones of it that

condemns his way of Separation which will easily appear in making his concessions to speak out what they at first sight are capable to infer that way 1 Hee grants that when Ordinances are not corrupted in the essentials but onely in the circumstantials of them wee cannot reject them and thereby hee condemns his denying of our Ministery and Church-State to bee true for are they corrupted in their essentials Will not his distinction keep our Ordination Ministery and Church-State from being null as well as the Ordinance of Baptism The same way as hee will maintain the validness of this wee will the validness of those and the same exceptions that hee can make against the validness of those will equally strike at the validness of this Let him try and hee shall finde it to be so 2 Hee grants that the Womans being nourished in the Wilderness implies that Ordinances were preserved in their essentials and Gods people accepted in the use of them and that there were Churches owned of God during the four and twenty months of Antichrist Whereby hee clearly condemneth that intercision of a true Church-State which hee had before asserted frequently and lately p. 52. where hee saith I deny them not speaking of Churches not Independent and there were none considerable but such till these late daies to bee the Woman nourished in the Wilderness but I deny them to be the Candlesticks that is true Churches in his sense And here Till the Waldenses and Albigenses began to set up particular visible Churches 't is very rare to finde a man that would acknowledge any other Churches than the Beast and his Images So also hee condemns here his restraining of a true Church-State to Independent Churches in saying that during that time wherein hee saith there were Churches owned of God particular visible Churches that is as Independent were not acknowledged So that hence must bee inferred whether hee will or no that the Churches not Independent renouncing Rome during the four and twenty months which includes our age were and are true Churches and so not to bee looked upon as Antichristian and Harlot Daughters of Rome as his charity calls them nor to bee separated from Which would farther appear if wee should take in his notion of the Candlesticks Sect. 4th for they are in his sense Churches and they prophesie one thousand two hundred and sixty daies which is four and twenty months Rev. 11.3 4 and there were during that time till this last age at least till the Waldenses by his own concession no considerable Independent Churches Therefore the preceding Churches not Independent renouncing Rome-Papal and ours their successors were and are true Churches and if Churches bee properly Witnesses at least as truly Witnesses as the Congregational and not to bee separated from But hee seeming to foresee that hee opened us a gap to strike at his separation saith That the validness of Ordinances in our way stands no more against separating from our Churches than the validness of them when received in the Church of Rome against separation from it A doughty reasoning Hee knows that wee plead besides the validness of Ordinances among us a renouncing of the Idolatries of Rome's worship and a Professing and owning of the true doctrines of Christianity in opposition to Rome's blasphemies and fundamental Antichristian errours And surely the validness of Ordinances so accompanied renders a separation from us and our Churches of quite another nature than that from Antichristian Rome which if inconsiderateness and prejudice lay not in many rolles upon the eies of his understanding hee could not chuse but see Thus the matter of his answer recoiles upon himself of which more may bee said Sect. 11. As to the form of it in relation to the Objection it removes it not at all For what saies hee The Ordinances are not to be accounted essentially null but the Church-State in the which they were administred is to bee accounted null for hee calls all reformed Churches images of the Beast and Harlot Daughters of Rome and his way sets up a new Church-State distinguished and differenced in essential respects from that of all those Churches Now if their Church-State hath been null their Ministery hath been null and consequently the Ordinances administered by such a Ministery null and so the Objection remains in full force against him notwithstanding all his striving to assoil it and his principles drive to rebaptizing or Seekism chuse hee whether Neither let him say that this toucheth us also who have separated from Rome as a false Church through which notwithstanding wee had our Ministery and Ordinances for hee may know and shall bee told anon that our principles and apprehensions about this matter do exceedingly differ from his I shall close this with those Queries upon his riddles 1 Are the Woman nourished in the Wilderness and the Churches owned of God during the four and twenty months all one or not 2 Had the Woman in the Wilderness that had Ordinances preserved from corruption in their essentials and was accepted in the use of them any true Church-State or not 3 Were the Churches that are said to have been these hundreds of years and owned of God Independent Churches or not 4 Did the Waldenses and Albigenses set up Independent Churches which seem here to bee meant by particular visible Churches If I had his positive answer to these I should say something more to him But hee here delivers himself obscurely about these things as those use to do that are such as the Apostle speaks of 1 Tim. 1.7 Object 3 But many godly men have worshiped God zealously in this way and do still and God hath been and is still no question P. 59. 60. found of them Answ This must be looked on as an indulgence of God unto sincerity owning what is of himself mingled with much of man They are much deceived that think it is enough to say for a way that they have found God in it or rather in something of his that is practised in it Answ That the Lord is found of any of us his poor servants seeking him in his waies wee humbly acknowledge to be of his gracious indulgence owning what is of himself mingled with much of man And will not you say the same concerning your selves But that our way of worship and our Church-State are not in the main according to divine Institution is that which you have not nor will ever prove Wee grant that they are much deceived c. and it toucheth us not for wee think not that it is enough to say so And wee suppose that this may better serve to indoctrinate those of your way than us for it is not rare with many of them to judge of a way by the Impressions they have upon their spirits concerning or in the use of it more than by Rule But the Question should bee whether God is as much found of those that seek him in a false way and much

the ground 2 Because they are Harlots and will intice and draw away to their lewd Courses p. 67 68. Babylon hath golden pretences for her abominable idolatries The prevention of Schisms and Heresies for a Catholick Church visible Reverence to the womb that bare us and the paps that gave us suck for Metropolitan National Diocesan Parish-Churches c. And shee is stubborn shee will not return to you Gods people would have cured her but shee is not cured None that would have thorough reformation dare take the whole Parish along with them to the work Why should they bee washed at the same laver at least their children that may not eat at the same Table Let us take the Prophets Counsel forsake wee Babylon and go every one to his own Country Let us wash our hands of her and expect what God hath determined of her as Du plessis once said of the Roman Church Babylon and the best reformed Churches in the Christian World that are not of his way are all one with this modest Theologue Rome renounceth abhorreth anathematizeth them and they have separated from renounce and abhor Rome's Doctrin and Worship and yet this peece of subtilty finds them to bee one and the same Babylon Surely should the Pope understand what service this Separatist's book tends to do him in proclaiming the Protestant Churches to be Harlots and the Babylon to bee separated from hee would account himself endebted to him for it They are Harlots saies hee they have leud courses abominable Idolatries and what are they A Catholick Church visible and National and Parish Churches these are abominable Idolatries in Mr. P's Atheological Divinity Of the two latter I have spoken enough before to vindicate them from this charge I shall now adde something to what hath been said for the former A Catholick visible Church hath been alwaies generally acknowledged among Christians in all ages So that Mr. P. laies abominable Idolatry to the charge of all the Christian Churches that have been unto this last age yea of some of those writers that have appeared on the side of the congregational way Dr. Ames saith that the Church never ceaseth to bee visible which cannot bee understood of any paticular Church for that may fail and that Particular Congregations are as similar parts of the Catholike Church and so participate of its name and nature and those that by profession onely are beleevers whilst they remain in a society are members of that Church as also of the Catholick Church in respect of its External estate And in Bell. Enerv. Wee acknowledge the Militant Church to bee visible as to its outward and accidental form in its parts both separated and conjoyned What can bee more plain But let us briefly consider what Scripture saies to it Act. 8.3 speaks of a visible Church else it could not have been persecuted and yet not of a particular Church for the persecution was in Jerusalem Damascus in every Synagogue in strange Cities yea against all of that way therefore it speaks of the Catholick visible Church 1 Cor. 10.2 must needs bee understood of it also 1 Cor. 12.28 is too clearly for it to bee denyed with any likely reason for 1 The Church here spoken of is an Organical Church 2 It cannot bee understood of a particular Church Apostles and Prophets being Catholick-Officers 3 It must therefore bee understood collectively of all that were within the bounds of the Apostles Commission the Church in the whole world Indeed this whole Chapter treats of the Catholick visible Church All the members of Christ mystical are one body vers 12. 20. Jews and Gentiles are baptized into one body vers 13. and they are one Church vers 28. Eph. 3.10 cannot mean otherwise nor Eph. 3.21 What Church can the Church of all ages mean but the Catholick Visible Church Which though some particular Churches may and have failed hath continued and shall continue in all ages Matth. 16.18 proves this and the point in hand for it may not bee understood of any particular Church and it cannot bee understood of the Invisible Church as distinct from the visible for the invisible Church is not built upon a visible profession as Peters was and the Church here spoken of is such whereof the Keyes are given to Peter and every Minister of Christ to let in members and eject scandalous sinners Now how a member of the invisible Church as such can by a censure bee cast out of the Church invisible who can see but out of the Church visible hee may bee cast therefore this Text speaks clearly of the Catholike Church Visible against which the gates of hell shall not prevail Adde to this that all the Metaphors that set out the Church in Scripture shews the unity of the Catholike Church as visible Shee is a Woman Rev. 12.1 One sheepfold John 10.16 One body Rom. 12.5 The House Temple City of God 1 Tim. 3.15 Eph. 2.19 Heb. 12.22 Rev. 3.12 c. Therefore Mt. P's eyes were bloud-shotten when hee wrote that a Catholike visible Church is an Abominable Idolatry But hee is angry it seems at the pretence too and makes it a peece of Babylons golden cup to wit the prevention of Schisms and Heresies what hee insinuates thereby that Protestant Churches have but this pretence for it and no ground in the Word is untrue and unworthy Surely wee may think that Mr. P. sees that the opposing of Schisms strikes at his Democracy and separation and that therefore hee is not well pleased with the prevention of Schisms if they bee let alone his Schism will escape among them But Protestant Churches have not so learn't Christ knowing that they are injoyned to take the Foxes and the little Foxes that spoil the vines Cant. 2.15 and to mark them that cause divisions and offences and avoid them Rom. 16.17 and to have no divisions among them 1 Cor. 1.10 and that when single Churches cannot effect this they must labour to do it united so fully as the case will require Act. 15. What hee addds to prove the stubbornnesse of Protestant Churches which his dialect terms Babylon that Gods People would have cured her but shee is not cured is an impudent unreasonable and false speech Wonderfull impudence it is especially in such a Theologaster as hee that needs to be taught what a Church is to charge all reformed Churches with stubbornnesse in evil Stubbornnesse is a sinning against light and conviction and what audaciousnesse is it in this aeccuser of the brethren to publish in print that all the reformed Churches sin against conviction in cleaving to their Church-state and way of government Unreasonable also it is for him to say that Gods people would have cured Protestant Churches for thereby hee seems to confine Gods people to those of his way and those of his way have not I am sure put forth requisite indeavours to cure our Churches supposing them to bee sick of Romish diseases unlesse reviling of