Selected quad for the lemma: woman_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
woman_n	church_n	keep_v	silence_n	2,518	5	9.9816	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A70157	A just defence and vindication of Gospel ministers and Gospel ordinances against the Quakers many false accusations, slanders and reproaches. In ansvver to John Horwood his letter, and E.B. his book, called, A just and lawful tryal of the ministers and teachers of this age, and several others. Proving the ministers calling and maintenance just and lawful, and the doctrine of perfection by free justification, preached by them, agreeable to the scriptures. VVith the Quakers objections answered. And the Quakers perfection by hearkning to, and obeying a light within them, proved contrary to the scriptures. And their practices in ten particulars proved contrary to the commands and examples of Christ and his apostles. By a lover of gospel ministers and gospel ordinances.	Gaskin, John, fl. 1660.	1660 (1660)	Wing G290; ESTC R223664	109,852	161

Congregation and if any through ignorance doe sing that which is not sutable to their condition may not or must not others in the same congregation sing those things that are sutable to their condition That the Psalmes to be read by such is no sin unless you count reading the Scripture to be sinne and why may they not as well sing them as read them seeing the one is a duty as well as the other they may sing them doctrinal as well as read them doctrinal as the truths contained in the Psalms and such may be convinced by singing them as wel as reading them as in the particulars objected O Lord I am not puft in mind may not a proud person be convinc'd that he ought not to be proud and when a wicked man singeth My heart is bent to keep thy Law may not he thereby be convinced and taught by that Doctrine that his heart ought to be bent to keep the Law That it is ignorance of a mans own condition and of the matter contained in the Psalmes to think or say that the Psalmes are not sutable to our conditions for every Psalm setteth forth either the Attributes and workes of God and his Christ or else describeth the estate and wayes of the Church and People of God or describeth the estate and wayes of the wicked or else it doth lively express mine own affections and afflictions temptations and comfort But whatsoever the matter of the Psalm concerneth either of God or his Christ the godly or the wicked my self or others the good or evil estate of one or other it ever ministreth fit matter and occasion to me of singing forth the prayses of the Lord since the name of God is to be blessed in and by all whether it goe well or ill with our selves or others and I believe that there is no condition the Church is or can be in in general nor no condition which any Member is or hath been in but there are Psalms sutable to the same and several Clerks are able to chuse such Psalms as are fit and sutable for all times and for all states and conditions of the Church and sutable for all Ordinances and sutable to all Doctrines And lastly the general practice of the Churches of Christ is to me a thing much to be considered and that it was the practice of the Churches of Christ after the Apostles dayes several Histories do testifie as Mr. Cotton doth largely prove in his book written in defence of this Ordinance of singing of Psalmes against the Antipsalmist But you follow the Papists your Fathers who are as great enemies to singing of Davids Psalmes as your selves and I could wish that some Protestants were not too much tainted with that Opinion The Papist in contempt of singing of Psalmes call them Genevah Jigs as you Quakers and other Sectaries the brood of Antichrist scoff at our Ministers and people for singing of Psalmes calling them Hopkins Jigs But I hope I have sufficiently proved that we follow the example of Christ and his Apostles and all reformed Churches and that you do sin in not following the command and example of Christ and his Apostles and therefore are not perfect and so I pass from this particular in which I have been the longer in regard I have been so often opposed by you for practising this duty And now I come to a fourth particular in which you walk contrary to the rule of the Scripture and that is your practice in suffering and maintaining women to teach in your meetings which you call your Church Now this practice I have not only heard of but am an eye and ear witness of having heard two several women speak and teach in your meetings where I heard them speak such nonsensical erronious stuff that it is a shame to write it And this practice is justified and maintained in Print by one of their chief teachers Richard Fanworth for so he saith is his name in the flesh who hath written a Pamphlet called A woman forbidden to speak in the Church the Grounds examined the Mystery opened the Truth cleared and the Ignorance both of Priests and People discovered where by the way take notice that where ever the letter of the Text doth speak directly against your errors then you say there is a Mystery in it and that none can open but your selves But where the Letter of the Scripture seemeth to speak for your errours then you say away with your mystical meanings the Scripture is to be understood as they speak according to the Letter which I have often heard from your own mouths and read in your books Wherefore I shall indeavour to prove Mr. Fanworths Mystery opened to be the mystery of iniquity proceeding from the spirit of Antichrist being directly against the Doctrine of Christ contained in the Scripture For saith the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians Let your women keep silence in the Churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the Law And if they will learn any thing let them aske their husbands at home for it is a shame for women to speak in the Church also the Apostle to Timothy Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence Object But you Quakers say that there is a mystical meaning which none know but your selves And that is that by the woman is meant the flesh and by the speaking is meant the Spirit which is in the Saints and that may speak in the Church whether in man or woman male or female this Farnworth writeth in opening the Mystery Also Sarah Blackbury when I alledged the Apostles words to her in William Bonds House after she had been three or four hours there a teaching or prating on the Lords day she made me this Answer thou art the woman for thou art Flesh that is weak and therefore thou art to keep silence and I may speak because I have the Spirit by which the Scripture was written but thou hast not the Spirit and therefore hold thy babling for thou knowest not the meaning of the Scripture To which I replied but what is meant by the Husbands that the women are to learn of and to ask them at home To which Susan Bond answered Christ was the Husband and of him they were to be taught and Sarah Blackbery seemed to like the Answer well for she made no exceptions against it neither can she nor any one else if their doctrine be true that they all have an infallible Spirit and cannot erre else they cannot be perfect for error is sin and I shall prove this to be an error when I have taken away the false Vizzard which you have put upon the these Texts of Scripture Wherefore to shew you your error I shall shew you the great

absurdities that do follow upon your interpretation and for a full clearing of the text in the Corinths consider the words before The Apostle saith ye may all prophesie one by one that all may learn For God is not the Author of confusion Now lest the women from the word all should think themselves permitted to prophesie as well as the men the Apostle to prevent their mistake whom he knew loved to speak too much saith Let your women keep silence in the Churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak where take notice that the Apostle speaketh in the plural number women and not permitted unto them to speak The Apostle always when he speaketh of the flesh speaketh in the singular number flesh also the Apostle speaketh in the plural number Husbands and not in the singular Husband by which you may see what most barbarous conclusions will follow upon your interpretation For if by the women be meant the flesh and by asking their Husbands be meant Christ then is Christ the Husband of the flesh and that there are more Christs then one seeing the Apostle saith ask their Husbands at home by which word home it will follow that Christ and the flesh dwell together and that Christ is the fleshes home so that you may see by maintaining an error you run into many grosse errors But you will say the Apostle to Timothy saith woman in the singular number To which place I answer that there will several errors follow if by the woman be meant the flesh in that place Let the woman learn in silence if by the woman be meant the flesh then is the flesh to learn But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence If by the woman be meant the flesh then the flesh can teach and can usurp authority over the Spirit for Adam was first formed then Eve if by the woman be meant the flesh then is the flesh Eve and was of Gods forming Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in Faith and Charity and Holynesse with Sobriety if by the woman be meant the flesh then may the flesh be saved in child-bearing and may have Faith Charity and Holynesse with Sobriety Now let your selves and others judge whether you have an infallible Spirit the same Spirit that the Apostles had that writ the Scripture and that you know the true meaning of the Scripture And whether such are fit to be Teachers of others Whether men or women that give such interpretations of Scripture and maintain such grosse errors Also the example of all the Churches of Christ is a ground why women ought not to speak in the Church But if any man seem to be contentious we have no such custome neither the churches of God But you object that several women did prophesie as Deborah and that one man had four Daughters and Virgins and they did prophesie And your Sons and Daughters shall prophesie Answer that those women and virgins who prophesied were extraordinarily called by an extraordinary gift which is now ceased and they did not take upon them to be Teachers in the Church but did prophesie of such things as were extraordinarily revealed or done in the Church for the prophesie in the Prophet Joel the same was accomplished in the Acts for saith the Apostle Peter These are not drunken as ye suppose But this is that which was spoken by the Prophet Joel I will poure out of my spirit upon all flesh and your Sons and your Daughters shall prophesie I would have any of you shew any one example where a woman took upon her to be a Teacher in the publick Church if any did take upon them so to do the Apostle teacheth that they did transgresse for it is to usurp authority over the man which is a sin and for a woman to take upon her to be a Teacher unto men is to exercise the authority of a man for we read of no women Teachers in the Church But you say that none are to exercise authority over others But are all in the Church equal and alike which bringeth me to a fifth particular wherein your practise is contrary to the command example and practise of Christ and his Apostles and therefore are not perfect The fifth is your not giving any reverence honor nor civil respect unto your Superiors and those that are in authority but are in your carriage tou Superiors more like Heathens then Christians Now it remaineth on my part to prove that Christ and his Apostles did both command and walk contrary to your practice herein Christ said Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and to God the things that are Gods Now the name Caesar was a word of Honour given unto all the Roman Emperours what ever their names were as we used to call our Supream Magistrate King Now Christ though a King himself did not say Give unto William or John the things that are his but give to Caesar He gave him the same title of Honour that the Romans gave him though a heathen Emperour Also Christ teaching his Disciples humilitie When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding sit not down in the highest room left a more honorable man then thee be bidden of him and he come and say Give this man place he being a more honourable person but when thou art bidden goe and sit down in the lowest room that when he that bad thee cometh he may say unto thee Friend goe up higher then thou shall have worship or honour in the presence of them that sit at meat by which Christ doth teach that some persons are more honourable then others and such are to be honoured of others But which of you having a servant plowing or feeding cattel will say unto him by and by go and sit down to meat and will not rather say unto him Make ready wherewith I may sup and gird thy self and serve me till I have eaten and drunk and afterward thou shalt eat and drink now though this be to teach us that we are all Gods servants and that when we have done all we are commanded to say we are unprofitable servants We have done that which was our dutie yet Christ useth this similitude because of the equitableness and justness of the same And as it is contrary to what Christ taught so is it contrary to the practice and doctrine of the Apostles for when Paul the Apostle of the Gentiles was brought before Agrippa to speak for himself Paul said I think my self happy King Agrippa because I shall answer for my self this day before thee mind The Apostle doth not onely say Agrippa but King Agrippa though he were a Heathen King And when he spake for himself Festus said with a loud voice Paul Thou art beside thy self much learning hath made thee mad Paul said I am not mad mind most

Minister because the People unto whom he Preacheth liveth in many sins then I say by the same ground you may as well prove that the Prophets and Apostles were no true Teachers for the Lord sometimes sendeth his Prophets among a people not for their conversion but to harden them in their sins and to leave them without excuse Noah was a Preacher of righteousnesse and Preached to the old world to have them repent and yet they repented not but God brought a Floud and drowned the whole World except Noah and his Family and will you say that Noah was not therefore a Preacher of righteousnesse or a true Preacher and afterward was not Noah overtaken with drinking the Wine that he made of the Grapes that he was drunk and yet that sin of his did not prove him to be no true Teacher Also Just Lot so called did labour by Teaching Reproving and Exhorting the Sodomites to repent and turn from their wickednesse but could not prevail and God destroyed them with Fire and Brimstone from Heaven And Lot after that great deliverance fell into grosse sins namely Drunkennesse and Incest was he not therefore a good Teacher Also the Prophet Samuel what pains did he take with the Children of Israel to reclaim them from their sins but could not prevail for the Lord said they have not rejected thee but me was he not therefore a true Prophet Also the Prophet Elias how little did he prevail with the Children of Israel to reclaim them insomuch that he saw none but himselfe that was not fallen to worship Ball saying They have slain thy Prophets and I am left alone Also the Lord said unto the Prophet Esai Go and tell this people Hear ye indeed but understand not and see ye indeed but perceive not Make the heart of this people fat and make their eares heavy and shut their eyes least they see with their eyes and hear with their eares and understand with their heart and convert and be healed Then said I Lord how long and he answered Untill the Cities be wasted without Inhabitants and the Houses without Men and the Land be utterly desolate And the Prophet complaineth that all day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and a gain-saying people And was not the Prophet Isaiah therefore a true Prophet but you will say these were before Christ was come in the flesh Wherefore I shall shew you the same in effect after Christ his coming in the flesh to omit what Christ complaineth of concerning the obstinate Jews in which I might be large only take that one complaint of his O Jerusalem Jerusalem thou that killest the Prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee how often would I have gathered thy Children together even as a Hen gathereth her Chickens under her wings and ye would not behold your houses are left unto you desolate Now if Christ who was God as well as Man complaineth that Jerusalem would not be gathered or converted unto him is it any strange thing that those that follow him do see such small fruit of their labours Wherefore take a view of what followed after Christ his Ascention and after the full accomplishing of Christs promise to send the Holy Ghost The Apostle Paul after he had with much labour by preaching gathered a people in Corinth what fruits did spring up and grow among them there was great divisions and contentions among them every one of you saith I am of Paul and I of Apollos and I of Cephas and I of Christ Also the Apostle saith that it is reported commonly that there is Fornication among you and such as is not so much as named amongst the Gentiles that one should love his Fathers Wife and ye are puffed up and have not rather mourned Also the Apostle complaineth that there were divisions among them about the Lords Supper For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper and one is hungry and another is drunken and was not the Apostle therefore a true Teacher of the Gospel of Christ and was not the Church of Corinth therefore a true Church of Christ according to you Quakers tenets or opinions they are no true Churches in which there are divisions and in which there are any sins and corruptions and so much is implyed and expressed in your Paper where by the way I shall now write something to confute that error of yours in which you are not alone for you have too many that erre with you for company besides Quakers Now I have read several of your Pamphlets in which you write that the Church is in God and is Spiritual and that there is no true Church where there is divisions and where there is sin this Richard Farnworth Burroughs and several other wr●teth wherefore I desire you to take notice that the Apostle Paul writeth to these Corinthians and calleth them the Church of God at Corinth notwithstanding those corrupt Members that were among them such as you can scarse finde in the worst of our Congregations Also the Apostle writing to the Galatians calleth them the Churches of Galatia and that the Apostle saith O foolish Galatians who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth and are ye so foolish having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh that is by the works of the Law which the Apostle calleth Flesh Also the Apostle writing to the Thessalonians calleth them the Church of the Thessalonians which is in God and yet the Apostle saith there were some unruly persons among them and some disorderly persons which the Apostle calleth Brethren That the withdrawing your selves from every Brother that walketh disorderly for we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly working not at all but are busie bodies And if any man obey not our word by this Epistle note that man and have no company with him that he may be ashamed Minde Yet count him not as an Enemy but admonish him as a Brother Surely the Apostle w●s no Quaker for they deny to call any man or woman Brother or Sister though they walk never so orderly if not of their minde but say they are Heathen this I have heard several of your company speak Also Christ himself unto the Church of Ephesus saith That Thou hast left thy first love and unto the Angel of the Church in Pergamus That thou hast them that hold the doctrine of Balam so hast thou them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which thing I hate And unto the Angel of the Church of Thiatira I have a few things against thee because thou sufferest that woman Jezabel which calleth her selfe a Prophetesse to teach and to seduce my servants like the women among you Quakers that take upon them to Teach And unto the Angel of the Church of Sardis I know thy works that thou hast a name that

before Christs coming in the flesh than we Christians in the dayes of the Gospel since his coming for to be out of the pale of the Church was counted an unholy unclean condition I they were counted Doggs by Christs own words It is not lawful to give Childrens bread unto Doggs and without are Doggs and if the children of the Church of the Jews were externally holy by being visible members of the Church and Christians children unholy because no visible members of the Church Are not our children in a worse condition than theirs and so we have lesse priviledge than they now the Scripture declareth that the Church and People of God in the dayes of the Gospel have far greater priviledges than the Church of the Jews and this Christ himself sheweth where he saith Verily I say unto you among them which are born of women arose there not a greater then John Baptist notwithstanding the least in the kingdome of Heaven is greater than he whereby Christ would teach us that John the Baptist was the greatest among all the Prophets that went before him because he had the presence of Christ pointing at him Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world and yet the least believer in the Kingdome of Grace is greater than he because Christ had not then actually suffered for sin nor was not risen from the dead but the least believer doth now by Faith see Christ hath actually taken away sin by his Death and Suffering and is risen again for our Justification Also Christ saith Blessed are your eyes for they see and your eares for they hear for verily I say unto you that many Prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see and have not seen them and to hear those things which you hear and have not heard them And are not these great priviledges Also the Apostle writing to the Hebrews in the eleventh Chapter writeth a Catalogue of the faithfull and in the end concludeth And all these having obtained a good report through Faith received not the Promise God having promised some better thing for us that they without us should not be made perfect The Apostle Peter also testifieth the same Teaching what or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signifie when it testified before hand the Sufferings of Christ Minde and the glory that should follow unto whom it was revealed that not unto themselves but unto us they did minister the things which are n●w reported unto you of which Salvation the Prophets have inquired and searched diligently who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you By which Texts of Scripture ye may plainly see that the Church and people of God in these times of the Gospel have greater priviledges then the Church of the Jews and therefore our Children as well as theirs have the priviledge of being outward visible Members of the Church which is only by Baptism But you Antibaptists and the Anabaptists say that although Believers have now greater priviledges then the Jews yet it doth not follow that our Children are to be admitted visible Members of the Church because there is no express command nor example for baptizing Children To which I answer that whatsoever may be proved from the Scripture by consequence to be the scope and meaning of the Scripture it is sufficient proof and that is already made good But seeing you do both stand to have express word of Command or express Example I shall desire you or either of you to shew me one command or example in Scripture for the baptizing of those that are grown up whose Parents one or both were Christians by professing the Gospel of Christ Now if you have no rule nor example in Scripture as I am sure you have not why do you condemn another when you Anabaptists are more guilty in that you baptise those that are of years whose Parents profess the Gospel of Christ and were formerly baptised in the name of Christ Unless you count all those that profess the Gospel of Christ to be Heathens that are not of your Churches which is a most uncharitable opinion But you farther object that the Apostles baptibaptized none but such as did beleive and make a profession of their Faith To which I answer that it is more then you can prove seeing the Apostle baptized Housholds and it is more then you can tell there were no Children in those Housholds unlesse you know it by revelation Secondly I say that those whom the Apostles baptized who were of years were such as were converted from Judaisme or Heathens and neither they nor their Parents ever professed the Gospel of Christ and did any of you or any other know any of our Ministers baptize any Jews Turks or Indians not professing the Gospel they have baptized some that have come from those parts after they have been converted and made a profession of their Faith according to the example of the Apostle Thirdly I answer that elect Infants may have the root or habit of Faith though not the act of Faith if you believe Christs words For Christ called a little Child unto him and set him in the midst of them and said who so shall receive one such little Child in my name receiveth me but whoso shall offend one of these little ones mind which believe in me By which words it doth appear that elect Infants may have the seeds of grace in their hearts we read that some have been sanctified from the womb and that must be by the Spirit for so the Text saith speaking of John Baptist And he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost mind even from his Mothers womb It is the opinion of many ancient and modern Ministers that elect Infants do ordinarily recieve the Spirit in or at their Baptism as Christ at his Baptism had the Holy Ghost descending like a Dove and lightning upon him Now Christ was full of the Holy Ghost before for in him dwelleth all the fulnesse of the God-head bodily And therefore the descending of the Holy Ghost at that time was to teach us to have a high esteem of that ordinance as most of our protestant Ministers do hold and teach and as Dr. Burges doth at large prove in his Book called Baptismal Regeneration Where this point of elect Infants ordinarily receiving the Spirit or seal of the Spirit in their Baptism is fully handled with all objections against it answered and I do the more press this point because the Baptism of Infants is so much slighted neglected and contemned by many in our days For I suppose that elect Infants being meer patients in the work of Regeneration are as capable of the Spirits sealing or applying the blood of Christ for the remission of their sins as those that are of Age for if there were a power in Adam by h●s sin