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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
woman_n	church_n	keep_v	silence_n	2,518	5	9.9816	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A42764	A late dialogue betwixt a civilian and a divine concerning the present condition of the Church of England in which, among other particulars, these following are especially spoken of ...	Gillespie, George, 1613-1648.	1644 (1644)	Wing G753; ESTC R15751	28,350	44

this that he preserveth strengtheneth and delivereth the Church invisible and all the members of his mysticall body from the malice of the Divell and the wicked world and also ruleth and commandeth their hearts by his spirit to walk in the wayes of his obedience But that the Kingly office of Christ reacheth so farre as to the externall government and order of a visible politicall ministeriall Church that I still doubt of Divine You observe not that my argument did conclude this very thing at which you stick that Christ hath appointed a certain policy and government and certain kinds of officers for the Church because hee hath fully and faithfully discharged his Kingly office in providing for all the necessities of his Church And that hee raignes and rules in his Church not only mystically but politically considered I suppose you cannot deny if you observe that otherwise a visible politicall Church is a body without a head and subjects without a King Therefore it is the ordinary expression of our Divines against Papists that the government of the Church is partly Monarchicall in regard of Christ our King and Law-giver partly Aristocraticall in regard of the Ministers and Officers and partly Democraticall in regard of certaine Liberties and Priviledges belonging to people Civilian I would understand whether the Reformed Churches hold the forme of their Ecclesiasticall government to be jure divino for I have heard that it was introduced among them only in a prudentiall way Divine I shall give you some cleare instances of their judgement such as come to my remembrance In the Book of the policy of the Church of Scotland I read thus This power and policy of the Church should lea●e upon the word immediately as the onely ground thereof and should bee taken from the pure fountaines of the Scriptures the Church hearing the voice of Christ the only spirituall King and being ruled by his Lawes In the French confession it is said we beleeve that this true Church ought to bee governed by that Regiment or Discipline which our Lord Iesus Christ hath established ●n the Belgick Confession I find words to the same purpose We beleeve say they That this Church ought to be ruled and governed by that spirituall Regiment which God himselfe hath delivered in his word See Harm Confes. Sect. 11. If the question were only this whether the Divine right of this or that form of Church-Government is to be mentioned and held forth in the ordinance of Parliament for my part I should not contend much for that the businesse going right otherwise But it belongeth at least to the Assembly of Divines to satisfie the consciences of men by holding forth the institution and ordinance of Jesus Christ which if it bee not done our proceedings shall not be conformable to those of other Churches Civilian Well then goe on you did bring an argument from the Kingly office of Jesus Christ Let me heare what other arguments you have to make it appeare that God hath in his word descended so farre into paricularities with us as to appoint a certain forme of Church-government Divine This will appeare best when the particular forme of Church-government with the Scripturall grounds of it shall be taken into consideration This government is Iure divino Ergo a government is Iure divi●● This were too large a subject for our conference But I ●●mit you to what is largely written concerning it I shall only put you in mind that in all ages God hath by positive Lawes descended into many particularities with man Take for instance beside the positive Law before the fall the Commandement not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evill other positive Law● before the Law such as that of the distinction of clean and uncleane beasts Gen. 7. the Law not to eat blood Gen. 9. the Law of circumcision Gen. 17. Under the Law beside morall and forensicall observances there were many ceremoniall Statutes And under the Gospell Christ and his Apostles have left another Law which though it lay opon us neither many nor burthensome performances yet bindeth us to such and such things in Ecclesiasticall policy The particulars we find in the Acts of the Apostles and in the Epistles especially to Timothy and Titus and Rom. 12. and 1. Cor. 12. Civilian Many particulars of that kind there are in the Acts and Epistles of the Apostles But that those things were intended as perpetuall and binding ordinances is a great question And beside I have heard some learned men make a distinction betwixt Ius di●inum and Ius Apostolicum Divine This distinction was used by those that denyed the jus divinum of the Lords day But surely i● i● an i●● grounded distinction and those that make most use of it are forced also to distinguish betwixt Ius divinum and Ius Mosaicum holding that though God was the Author of the morall Law yet Moses no● God was the Author of the judiciall and ceremoniall Law as the Apostles did write some things as Christs Heraulds other things as Pastors or Bishops of the Churches that they were Authors of the latter promulgators only of the former and that therefore the former only were Iure divino Thus saith Salmeron but hee is in this contradicted by Bellarmine Maldonat Suarez and others Lorinus in Psal. 88.32 noteth that it was one of the errors of Valentinus and of the Gnosticks that the Decalogue only was from God and other Lawes from Moses and the Elders of Israel But what saith the Apostle himselfe after hee hath given rules concerning the policy of the Church Let the Prophets speak two or three and let the other judge and the Spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets Let your women keep silence in the Churches c. Then he addeth 1. Cor. 14.37 If any man think himselfe to be a Prophet or spirituall let him acknowledge that the things that I writ unto you are the Commandements of the Lord Doe wee not also find the laying on of hands reckoned among those cat●cheticall heads which the Apostles did deliver as perpetuall to all the Churches Heb. 6.2 Papists understand the Episcopall confirmation Dwerse of our writers understand ordination of Ministers and the severall kinds of Church officers However it is agreed on both sides it is a thing belonging to the policy of the Church not to the foundation of faith or piety I adde that the directions given to Timothy and Titus are standing ordinances for all the Churches as may be proved from 1. Tim. 3.15 and 6.14 and 2. Tim. 2.2 Civilian But Ratio mutabilis facit praeceptum mutabile The reason why there were ruling Elders and Deacons and Church-censures at that time was because there was no Chri●●ian Magistrate So that under a Christian Magistrate there is no necessity of such officers government or censures in the Church Divine I answer First there is no ground at all in Scripture for such a

his bloody Tenant though I doe not remember that anywhere he answereth to those particular passages which I have cited yet perceiving that such arguments from the Old Testament can not be taken off without this answer that all these were typicall and figurative he therefore goeth much upon that ground and so deviseth more types and figures in the Old Testament then ever any body did before him and pleaseth himselfe with such fancies and conjectures therein as I dare say will satisfie no indifferent Reader and in effect making void by his principles all arguments from the Old Testament so that we may not from the examples of the godly Kings of Iudah teach Christian Magistrates what their duty is nor argue thus God commanded that the Kings of Iudah should have a copy of the Book of the Law by them and read therein that they should not multiply wives c. Therefore Christian Princes should search the Scriptures should not multiply wives c. or thus The Priests and Levites had a sufficient maintenance Therefore so should the Ministers of the Gospell or thus The Jewes were commanded to rest from all servile labour on the Sabbath day Therefore so should Christians on the Lords day or thus Warres were lawfull in the old Testament Therefore they are lawfull still Or the like All these shall be cast aside upon this ground they were tipicall therefore no patterns to us But because you desire an Argument from the New Testament I will convince your judgement from thence also Sure I am I have better grounds in the New Testament against the Toleration now in question then Master Iohn Goodwin hath found for it in his Text Act. 5.38.39 He holdeth that we may build upon Gamaliels speech as Authorised by God there being nothing in all this speech excepting only the Historicall Instances the truth of which it seems was generally known and is attested by Iosephus their great Historian but what is fully consonant with the Word of God saith he And so he approveth the Sceptik Principles of that Nullifidian who razeth the very foundation of the Christian Faith and maketh it a very doubtfull case whether the Apostles Doctrine was from God or from men But I proceed to my Arguments First you shall doe well to remember what I said concerning Church censutes from Matth. 18. under which scandalous and obstinate delinquents doe fall the pretence of Conscience being no exception for them The Ministers of the Gospel have in readinesse to revenge all disobedience 2 Cor. 10.6 The Angel of the Church of Ephesus is commended because of his zeal in that he could not beare those who called themselves Apostles and were not Revel. 2.2 Contrariwise the Angel of the Church of Perga●●● is blamed for this reason because then hast there them that teach the doctrine of Balaam c. so hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans Revel. 2.14.15 that is because thou hast tolerated them and hast not cast them out It is thy fault that they are there in the Church The like challenge is sent to the Angel of the Church of Thyatira vers. 20. I have a few things against thee because thou sufferedst that woman Iezebell who calleth her self a Prophetesse to teach and to seduce my servants c. That chapter is so cleare for the point that Master Williams acknowledgeth it proves fully that Christ hath endued the Ministers and Governours of his Church with power to suppresse Heresy and errour and the spreaders thereof be who they will be See the bloody Tenent c. 57. So Iohn the Baptist pag. 63. confesseth that the Church of Thy●●ra was justly taxed not only for not controuling and reproving Iexebel but also in that they permitted her to seduce weak Christians without cutting her off by the sword of the Spirit the power of excommunication Civilian I was about to answer the same that if those places prove any thing it is onely the suppressing of Hereticks and Schismaticks by Church censures not at all by the civill coercive power of the Magistrate Divine I thought with my selfe I should neede say no more having proved that Heriticks and Shismaticks though miscarrying with so much opinion of conscience as to thinke themselves Apostles or Prophets may be censured and cast out of the Church which is the case Revel. 2. I did never imagine but where the soule is punished with the greatest punishment which can be inflicted on earth that is Excomunication much more may the body be punished by the Magistrate as the degree of the offence shall require especially considering that the Magistrat is a nursing father to the Church and is to protect and assist her not to suffer her authority and censures to be despised and set at nought But to satisfie you yet more touching the Magistrats part consider well that passage Rom. 13.4 For he is the Minister of God to thee for good but if thou doe that which is evill be afraid for he beareth not the sword in vaine for he is the Minister of God a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evill Civilian This place and all that you can say in that kind doth not warrant nor iustifie persecution for the cause of conscience but onely the punishment of all such evill doers as doe disturbe the peace of the Kingdome or the course of civill justice oppose Magistrats or lawes traitors rebells murtherers felons and the like Iohn the Baptist pag. 57. saith If a breach of peace the civill powers ought to redresse it 1. Tim. 2.1.2 But for the Magistrate to interpose in matters meerly Ecclesiasticall otherwise then spiritually and as a Minister of the Gospell I find no warrant for it in all the Gospel Divine Now you are come to your last refuge wherein I know you put great confidence but I am as confident it cannot serve your turne which I prove thus 1. By this Tenent you give a more dangerous wound to the power of the civill Magistrate then you are aware of for in stead of m●king him keeper of both Tables you make him keeper of the second Table on●ly at least vindex of ● onely whereas God hath made him as well vindex as Custos utriusque Tabula 2. In t●e place I last cited the Apostle maketh no exception nor restriction but will have all evill doers to which category I suppose Heretickes and Sedu●ers doe belong to be afraid of vengeance by the hand of the Magistrate 3. The Apostle there doth once and againe call the Magistrate The Minister of God as it were purposely putting him in mind that he judgeth not for man but for the Lord and that he is to looke most to things pertaining to God 4. There may be a coincidencie of those things which you put assunder for example suppose a Jesuite killing a Magistrate or some other Hereticke killing one who hath beene most opposite to him or as sometime the case was suppose men