31.11 12. Exo. 4.29 Chap. 12.21 Chap. 17.5 Also in after times they were the Elders and chief of the Church that did it Josh. 24.1 Ezra 10.5 6 7 8 9. Acts 14.26 27. Chap. 15.3 Or if their calling together to performe divine Worship was not by the Elders alone Yet it was by the Power that resided in the Church for that thing who joyntly ordered the same Judg. 20.8.18 Ezra 3.1 Zeph. 2.1 2 3. Acts 12.12 1 Cor. 5.4 Chap. 11 20. All these are plain cases But never as I ever did read of in the Bible did Women Ordinary beliving ones assume this Power of the Elders or of the Church to themselves If it be asked who did appoint that Meeting made mention of Acts 12.12 I Answer 'T was appointed by the Power of the Church who for her own conveniencie if she cannot come all into one place at once to perform the Duty as 't is not likely four or five thousand should in times of persecution which was their case may meet some here some there for their Edification and comfort compare Vers. 5. with Vers. 12 and Vers. 17. Nor do I Question the Lawfulness of this or that part of the Churches Assembling together for Prayer Tho the Elders and greatest part of the Brethren be absent If first such MEN that call such Assemblies are countenanced by the Elders or Church to do it 1 Tim. 2.8 2 Tim. 2.22 But that the Sisters of this or that Church may call their own Sex together to perform such Worship by themselves to God for this is the thing in debate I finde no warrant for Secondly Because This kind of Worship when done in and by a Company is MINISTERIAL to that Company as well as petitionary to God That is they that as the mouth in Assemblies Pray to God teach that Assembly as well as beg mercies of him And I finde not that Women may Assemble to do thus That such Prayer is a kind of Ministring in the Word to Standers by consider well 1 Cor. 14.15 16 17 18 19. Wherefore let them keep silence in the Church and in the parts thereof when Assembled to Worship God In all Publick Worship by Prayer Teaching is set on foot two wayes 1. By propounding to that Assembly the things that must by agreement be Prayed for 2. And by proving them to suit with the will of God that Prayer may be made in Faith 1 Joh. 5.14 For all such Prayer must be made for the things agreed upon first and consequently for things that by the Word are proved good and sutable for the Seasons Persons or things for or about which such Prayers are made For they that have Meetings for Prayer without this Pray at random and not by Rule If two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask according to Gods will it shall be done for them saith Christ of my Father which is in Heaven Matt. 18.19 Now I say if things Prayed for in Assemblies must first be joyntly agreed upon then must such things by some one or more of that Assembly be first Propounded Expounded and Proved to be good by the Word Good for such Persons Seasons or things for which such Prayer is made And besides the Gifts required to do this if this is not Teaching I am out And yet this must first be done to instruct all present to help their Faith and to quicken their Spirits to and in that Worship That they may as one Man have their Eyes unto the Lord Zech. 9.1 But that this Power is given to Women to Ordinary believing ones that are in the highest account in Churches I do not believe I do not believe they should Minister to God in Prayer before the whole Church for then I should be a Ranter or a Quaker Nor do I believe they should do it in their own Womanish Assembly for the reason urged before And I will add if Brethren not heretofore called by the Church to open Scriptures or to speak in the Church to God in Prayer are not at first to be admitted to do this but before the Elders or Principal Brethren that they may hear and Judge 1 Cor. 14.26 27 28 29. how can it be thought to be meet or lawful for Women of whom it must be supposed that they have received no such Gifts that they should use this Power I say how can it be imagined that the Women should be bound of God to do this in such Sort as doth utterly exclude the Elders and all the Men in the Congregation from a possibility of understanding and of Judging of what they do And yet this is the Doctrine of Mr. K. For he saith that the Spirit of God is promised to Women to this very end that they may Pray together apart from Men. But God is not the Author of this Confusion in the Churches 2ly But Secondly As teaching by Prayer in Assemblies is thus set on foot so every one also that shall in such Meetings be the mouth of the whole to God Ministreth SO Doctrine to that Assembly as well as presenteth petitions to God Else how can that Assembly say AMEN at their Prayer or giving of thanks For to say AMEN is an effect of Conviction or of Edification received of the stander by from him that now is so Ministring in that Assembly before God 1 Cor. 14 15 16 17. Yea I believe that they that Pray in Assemblies or that shall give thanks for Mercies received there Ought to labor to speak not only with fervency of Words but with such soundness of Doctrine while they mention urge or plead the promise with God that that whole Assembly may be enlightned taught taken and carried away in their Spirits on the wing of that Prayer and of Faith to God whose face they are come to seek and whose Grace they are gathered together to beg Now this is called Praying and Praising to the Teaching and Edifying of others as by the Scripture afore named is made appear 1 Cor. 14.14 15 16 17 18 19. But by what Word of God the Sisters of the respective Churches may set up this way of Teaching of one another in their Assemblies I am ignorant of For. Thirdly The Holy Ghost doth particularly insist upon the inability of Women as to their well managing of the Worship now under Consideration and therefore it ought not to be presumed upon by them They are forbidden to teach yea to speak in the Church of God And why forbidden but because of their inability They cannot orderly manage that Worship to God that in Assemblies is to be performed before him I speak now of our Ordinary believing ones and I know none Extraordinary among the Churches They are not builded to manage such Worship they are not the Image and Glory of God as the Men are 1 Cor. 11.7 They are placed beneath and are called the Glory of the Man Wherefore they are weak and not permited to
to and did notwithstanding so high a calling still bear about with them the badge of their inferiority to them that were Prophets indeed And hence 't is said under pain of being guilty of disorder that if they Prayed in the Church or Prophesied there with their head uncovered they then dishonoured their Head 1 Cor. 11.5 The Prophetesses were below the Prophets and their covering for their head was to be worn in token thereof and perhaps 't was for want of regard to this Order that when Miriam began to perk it before Moses that God covered her face with a Leperous-Scabb Numb 12. Hence these VVomen when Prophets were present did use to lie still as to Acts of Power and leave that to be put forth by them that was higher then they And even Miriam her self though she was one indeed yet she came allwayes behind not only in name but VVorship unless when she was in her own disorders Num. 12.1 And it is worth your further noting that when God tells Israel that they should take heed in the Plague of Leprosie that they diligently observed to do what the Priest and Levites taught them that he conjoyns with that Exhortation that they should remember what God did to Miriam by the way Deut. 24.8 9. Intimating surely that they should not give heed to VVomen that would be perking up in matters of VVorshiping God Much less should we invest them with Power to call Congregations of their own there to perform Worship without their Men. Yet will I say notwithstanding all this that if any of these high Women had but we never read that they did separate themselves and others of their own Sex with them apart to Worship by themselves or if they had given out Commandment so to do and had joyned Gods name to that Commandment I should have freely consented that our Women should do so too when lead out and conducted in Worship by so Extraordinary a one Yea more If any of these high Women had given it out for Law that the Women of the Churches in New Testament-times ought to separate themselves from their Men and as so Separate perform divine Worship among themselves I should have Subscribed thereto But finding nothing like this in the Word of God for the Sanctifying of such a Practise And seeing so many Scriptures wrested out of their place to Justifie so fond a conceit And all this done by a Man of Conceit and of one that as his Sisters say expects my Answer I found my self engaged to say something for the suppressing of this his Opinion But to return to the good Women in the Churches and to make up my discourse with them First These Meetings of yours honourable Women wherein you attempt to perform divine Worship by your selves without your Men not having the Authority of the Word to Sanctifie them will be found Will-Worship in the day when you as to that shall be measured with that Golden Reed the Law of God And who hat required this at your hand may put you to your shifts for an Answer notwithstanding all Mr. K. has said to uphold you Isa. 1.12 Revel 11.1 2 3. Secondly These Meetings of yours need not be There are Elders or Brethren in all Churches to call to and manage this Worship of God in the World if you abide in your subjection and Worship as you are commanded Thridly These Meetings of yours instead of being an Ornament to the Church in which you are is a shame and blemish to those Churches For they manifest the unruliness of such Women or that the Church wants skill to Govern them Have you not in your stock a Male 1 Cor. 24 25. Malach. 1.14 Fourthly Suppose your Meetings in some cases were Lawful yet since by the Brethren they may be managed better you and your Meetings ought to give place That the Church together and the Brethren as the mouth to God are capable of managing this Solemn Worship best Consider 1. The Gifts for all such service are most to be found in the Elders and leading Men in the Church And not in the Women thereof 2. The Spirit for Conduct and Government in that Worship is not in the Women but in the Men. 3. The Men are admitted in such Worship to stand with open Face before God a token of much admitance to liberty and boldness with God a thing denyed to the Women 1 Cor. 11.4 5. 4. For that when Meetings for Prayers are Commanded the Men to be the mouth to God are mentioned but not an Ordinary Woman in all the Scriptures Where the Women and Children and them that suck the brests are called with the Bride and Bridegroom and the whole Land to mourn Yet the Ministers and Elders and Chiefest of the Brethren are they and they only that are bid to SAY spare thy People O Lord and give not thine Heritage to reproach Joel 1.13 14. Chap. 2.15 16 17. 5. The Word for encouragement to Pray believingly in Assemblies is given to men And it is the Word that makes and that Sanctifies an Ordinance of God Men therfore in all Assemblies for Worship should be they that should manage it and let others joyn in their place Object But the Woman is included in the Man for the same Word signifies both 1. Answer If the Woman is included here let her not exclude the Man But the Man is Excluded The Man is Excluded by this Womans Meeting from Worship from Worship though he be the Head in Worship over the Woman and by Gods Ordinance appointed to manage it and this is an Excluding of the worst Complexion 1 Cor. 11.3 2. Though the Woman is included when the Man sometimes is named yet the Man is not Excluded when himself as Chief is named But to cut him off from being the Chief in all Assemblies for Worship is to Exclude him and that when he for that in Chief is named 3. The Woman is included when the Man is named yet but in her place and if she Worships in Assemblies her part is to hold her Tongue to learn in silence and if she speaks she must do it I mean as to Worship in her Heart to God 4. Nor do I think that any Woman that is Holy and Humble will take offence at what I have said for I have not in any thing sought to degrade them or to take from them what either Nature or Grace or an Appointment of God hath invested them with But have laboured to keep them in their place And doubtless to abide where God has put us is that which not only highly concerns us but that which becomes us best Sisters I have said what I have said to set you right and to prevent your attempting to do things in such Sort unto which you are not appointed Remember what God did to Miriam and be afraid Be as often in your Closets as you will the oftener there the better This is your Duty this is your Priviledge This place is Sanctified to you for service by the Holy VVord of God Here you may be and not make Ordinances enterfere and not presume upon the Power of your Superiors and not thrust out your Brethren nor put them behinde your backs in VVorship Be also as often as possible you can in VVorship when the Church or parts thereof are Assembled for that end according to God And when you are there joyn with Heart and Soul with your Brethren in all Holy Petitions to God Let the Men in Prayer be the mouth to God and the VVomen lift after with groans and desires Let the Men stand with open Face in this VVorship for that they are the image and Glory of God and let the Women be clothed in modest Apparel with shame-facedness in token of the rembrance of what has been touched afore When Women keep their places and Men manage their Worshiping God as they should we shall have better days for the Church of God in the VVorld Jer. 29.10 11 12 13. VVomen are not to be blamed for that they are forward to Pray to God only let them know their bounds and I wish that Idleness in Men be not the cause of their putting their good VVomen upon this VVork Surely they that can scarce tye their Shoes and their Garters before they arive at the Tavern or get to the Coffe-house dore in a morning can scarce spare time to be a while in their Closets with God Morning-Closet-Prayers are now by most London-Professors thrown a way and what kind of ones they make at night God doth now and their Conscience when awake will know however I have cause as to this to Look at home And God mend me and all his Servants about it and wherein we else are out I have done after I have said that there are some other things concerning VVomen touching which when I have an Opportunity I may also give my Judgment But at present I intreat that these lines be taken in good part for I seek Edification not Contention FINIS
perform Publick Worship to God When our first Mother who was not attended with those weaknesses either Sinful or Natural as our Women now are stept out of her place but to speak a good Word for Worship you see how she was baffled and befooled therein she utterly failed in the performance tho she briskly attempted the thing Yea she so failed there-about that at one clap she over-threw not only as to that the reputation of Women for ever but her Soul her Husband and the whole World besides Gen. 3.1 2 3 4 5 6 7. The fallen Angel knew what he did when he made his Assault upon the Woman His subtilty told him that the Woman was the weaker Vessel He knew also that the Man was made the Head in Worship and the keeper of the Garden of God The Lord God took the Man said unto the Man commanded the Man and made him keeper of the Garden Gen. 2.15 16 17. Wherefore the management of Worship belonged to him This the Serpent as I said was a ware of And therefore he comes to the Woman sayes to the Woman and deals with the Woman about it and so overcomes the World Wherefore it is from this consideration that Paul tells Timothy that he permited not a Woman to teach nor to usurp Authority over the Man but to be in silence But to call the Church or parts thereof together to perform solemn Worship and in such a call to exclude or shut out the Men is an usurping of that Authority over them to an high degree And he renders the reason of this his prohibition thus For Adam was first formed then Eve and therefore had the Headship in Worship And Adam was not deceived but the Woman being deceived was in the Transgression 1 Tim. 2.15 16. But again it should seem methinks if Women must needs be managers of Worship in Assemblies they should do it as Eve before Adam in presence of the Men But that I think none will allow though that would be the way best to correct miscarriages how then should it be thought convenient for them to do it alone If Children are not thought fitt to help to guide the ship with the Marriners shall they be trusted so much as with a Boat at Sea alone The thing in hand is a Parallel case For Fourthly If the weightiness of this Worship be as indeed it is so great that the Strongest and best able to perform it do usually come off with Blushing and with repentance for their shortness as to the well performance thereof though they ingage therein by good and Lawful Authority What will they do who are much weaker here and when as Eve they set to it in a way of usurping of Authority and of their own Head and will To Offer strange sire with incense which was a type of Prayer you know what it cost Nadab and Avihu though Men and the Sons of Aaron Mr. K. cryes the Sisters the Women the Womens Meetings and the like and how they have prevailed with Heaven Poor Man I am sorry for his weakness and that he should shew that himself is so Nunnish in such a day as this But to return as all Worship in Assemblies ought to be performed with the most exact order and solemnity So this of Prayer with that if possible that is more then all the rest and therefore this makes it more heavie still When Men Preach they have to do with Men but when they Pray in Assemblies they have to do both with Men and with God at once And I say if it be so great a matter to speak to Men before God How great a matter is it to speak to Men and God at once To God by way of petition and to Men by way of Instruction But I am perswaded if those most fond of the Womens Meetings for Prayer were to petition the King for their lives they would not set Women to be their Advocates to him Specially if the King should declare before hand by Law that he permitted not a Woman in an open Auditory to speak before him There are also many temptations that attend the Duty of Praying in Assemblies especially those that are immediatly imployed therein These temptations they awake are a ware of are forced to wrestle with and greatly to groan under Wherefore we put not the weak upon this Service not the weak though they be Men Not they in the presence of the strong How then should the weakest of all be put upon it and that when together by themselves Men though strong and though Acting by Lawfull Authority in this are not able but with unutterable grones to do it How then shall all those that attempt it without that Authority perform it as acceptable Worship to God This work therefore is as much too heavy for our Women now as that about which Eve ingaged in at first was too heavy for her But Fifthly If this Worship may be managed by the Sister-hood of the Churches being congregated together in absence of their Men Of what Signification is it that Man is made the Head of the Woman as well in Worship as in nature 1 Cor. 11.3.7 Yea more why are the Elders of the Churches called Watchmen Overseers Guides Teachers Rulers and the like If this kind of Worship may be performed without their Conduct and Government Ezek. 3.7 Chap. 33.7 Acts 20.28 Ephes. 4.11 Psal. 78.72 Heb. 13.17 First Why is man made the Head of the Woman in Worship in the Worship now under debate in that Worship that is to be performed in Assemblies and why are the Women commanded silence there if they may Congregate by themselves and set up and manage Worship there Worship was ordained before the Woman was made wherefore the Word of God at the first did not immediatly come to her Gen. 2.16 17 18. 1 Cor. 14.35 36. â—ut to him that was first formed and made the Head in Worship And hence it is that Women are so strictly tied up to this Headship that if they will learn they must ask their Husbands at home not appoint Meetings of their own Sex to Teach one another vers 35. But what must they do that have unbelieving ones and what must they do that have none Answer Let them attend upon those Ordinances that God has appointed for the building up and perfecting of the Body of Christ and learn as the Angels do Ephes. 4.11 12.13 Chap. 3.10 1 Pet. 1.12 2ly But I say if they must do as Mr. K. says they are in duty bound to witt meet by themselves apart from their Men and as so met perform this most solemn Worship to God How shall the Elders and Overseers the Watchmen Rulers and Guides in Worship perform their Duty to God and to the Church of God in this since from this kind of Worship they are quite excluded and utterly shut out of Dores Unless it be said that to Watch to Oversee and to Guide in the matter and manner of
Church that thus consisteth of all Righteous that are so in Gods account they are to have an House in Heaven and to be for Gods habitation there Who then shall be governed by their Head without those Officers and Laws that are necessary here And both at last shall be subject to him that sometime did put all things under Christ that God may be all in all Joh. 14.1 2 3. Ephes. 2.21 1 Cor. 15.23 24 25 26 27. Wherefore my beloved Sisters this inferiority of yours will last but a little while When the day of Gods Salvation is come to wit when our Lord shall descend from Heaven with a shout with the voice of the Archangel and the Trump of God these distinctions of Sexes shall be laid a side and every pot shall be filled to the Brim For with a notwithstanding you shall be saved and be gathered up to that state of Felicity if you continue in Faith and Charity and Holiness with sobriety 1 Tim. 2.15 Thirdly I doubt not at all of the Lawfulness of Womens Praying and that both in private and Publick Only when they Pray Publickly they should not separate from but joyn with the Church in that Work They should also not be the mouth of the Assembly but in heart desires grones and Tears they should go a long with the Men. In their Closets they are at Liberty to speak unto their God who can bear with and pitty them with us and pardon all our weakness for the sake of Jesus Christ. And here I will take an occasion to say there may be a twofold miscarriage in Prayer one in Doctrine the other in the frame of the Heart All are too much subject to the last Women to the first And for this cause it is at least so I think that VVomen are not permitted to Teach nor speak in Assemblies for Divine Worship but to be and to learn in silence 1 Cor. 14.33 34 35. Chap. 15.33 For he that faileth as to the frame of his Spirit hurteth only himself But he that faileth in Doctrine corrupteth them that stand by Let the Women be alone with Rebecca in the Closet or if in Company Let her with Hanna speak to her self and to God and not doubt but if She be humble and keep within Compass Shee shall be sharers with her Brethren in the Mercy Fourthly Nor are Women by what I have said debarred from any Work or imploy unto which they are enjoyned by the Word They have often been called forth to be Gods witnesses and have Born famous Testimony for him against the Sons of the Sorceress and the Whore I remember many of them with comfort Even of these Eminent Daughters of Sarah whose Daughters you also are so long as you do well and are not affraid with any amazement 1 Pet. 3.1 2 3 4 5 6. What by the Word of God you are called unto what by the Word is enjoyned you do and the Lord be with you But this of the Womens Meetings Since indeed there is nothing for its Countenance in the Word and since the calling together of Assemblies for Worship is an Act of Power and belongeth to the Church Elders or Chief Men of the same Let me intreat you to be content to be under Subjection and Obedience as also saith the Law We hold that it is Gods Word that we are to look to as to all things pertaining to Worship because it is the Word that Authorizeth and Sanctifieth what wee do Fifthly Women They are an Ornament in the Church of God on Earth as the Angels are in the Church in Heaven Betwixt whom also there is some Comparison for they cover their faces in Acts of Worship Isa 6.2 1 Cor. 11.10 But as the Angels in Heaven are not Christ and so not admitted to the Mercie-seat to speak to God so neither are Women on Earth the Man who is to Worship with open face before him and to be the mouth in Prayer for the rest As the Angels then cry Holy Holy Holy with faces covered in Heaven So let the Women cry Holy Holy Holy with their faces covered on Earth Yea thus they should do because of the Angels For this cause ought the Woman to have Power that is a covering on her Head because of the Angels 1 Cor. 11.10 Not only because the Angels are present but because Women and Angels as to their Worship in their respective places have a semblance For the Angels are inferior to the great Man Christ who is in Heaven and the Woman is inferior to the Man that Truly Worships God in the Church on Earth Methinks Holy and Beloved Sisters you should be content to wear this Power or badge of your inferiority since the cause thereof arose at first from your selves 'T was the Woman that at first the Serpent made use of and by whom he then overthrew the World Wherefore the Woman to the Worlds end must wear tokens of her Vnderlingship in all Matters of VVorship To say nothing of that which she cannot shake off to wit her pains and sorrows in Child-bearing which God has riveted to her Nature there is her Silence and shame and a covering for her face in token of it which she ought to be exercised with when ever the Church comes together to VVorship Gen. 3.16 1 Tim. 2.15 1 Cor. 11.13 1 Tim. 2.9 Do you think that God gave the VVoman her hair that she might deck her self and set off her fleshly beauty therewith It was given her to cover her face with in token of shame and silence for that by the VVoman sin came into the VVorld 1 Tim. 2.9 And perhaps the reason why the Angels cover their faces when they cry Holy Holy Holy in Heaven is to shew that they still bear in minde with a kind of abhorrence the remembrance of their Fellows falling from thence Modesty and shame-facedness becomes VVomen at all times especially in times of Publick VVorship and the more of this is mixed with their grace and personage the more Beautiful they are both to God and Men. But why must the Women have shame-facedness since they live honestly as the Men I Answer In remembrance of the Fall of Eve and to that the Apostle applies it For a VVoman necessity has no Law to shave her head and to look with open face in VVorship as if she could be a leader there is so far from doing that which becomes her that it declares her to have forgot what God would have her for ever with shame remember Sixthly In what I have said about the VVomens Meetings I have not at all concerned my self about those VVomen that have been Extraordinary ones such as Miriam Deborah Huldah Anna or the rest as the Daughters of Philip the Evangelist Priscilla the VVomen that Paul said laboured with him in the Gospel or such like for they might Teach Prophecy and had power to call the People together so to do Though this I must say concerning them they ought
A Case of Conscience RESOLVED VIZ. Whether where a Church of Christ is Situate it is the Duty of the Women of that Congregation Ordinarily and by Appointment to Separate themselves from their Brethren and so to Assemble together to perform some parts of Divine Worship as Prayer c. without their Men AND The Arguments made use of for that Practice Examined By JOHN BUNYAN London Printed for Benj Alsop at the Angel and Bible in the Poultrey 1683. The Epistle Dedicatory to those Godly Women concerned in the following Treatise Honoured Sisters 'T Is far from me to despise you or to do any thing to your reproach I know you are beloved of God for the sake of Christ and that you stand fixed for ever by Faith upon the same foundation with us I also know that the Lord doth put no difference betwixt Male and Female as to the communications of his Saving Graces but hath often made many of your Sex eminent for piety yea there hath been of YOV I speak now of ordinary Christians that for Holiness of life have out gone many of the Brethren Nor can their vertuous lives but be renown and Glory to YOV and conviction to those of VS that have come behinde you in Faith and Holyness The love of Women in Spirituals as well as Naturals oft times out-goes that of Men. When Christ was upon Earth we read not that any Man did to and for him as did the Woman that was a sinner Joanna Susanna and many others Luk. 7.36 37 38. Chap. 8.1 2 3. And as they have shewed themselves eminent for piety so for Christian valour and fortitude of minde when called of God to bear witness to and for his Name in the World as all Histories of that Nature doth suficiently testifie They were Women as I take it as well as Men that were tortured and that would not accept of deliverance that they might obtaine a better resurrection Heb. 11.35 Wherefore I honour and praise your eminencie in vertue and desire to be provoked by the exceeding piety of any of you in all Holy conversation and Godlyness And although as you will find I have not with out a cause made a Question of the Lawfulness of your assembling together by your selves to perform without your Men solemn Worship to God Yet I dare not make your selves the Authors of your own miscarriage in this I do therefore rather impute it to your Leaders who whether of a fond respect to some seeming abilities they think is in you for this or from a perswasion that you have been better then themselves in other things or whether from a preposterous zeal they have put you upon a work so much too heavy for you I shall not at this time concern my self to inquire into But this is certaine at least 't is so in my apprehension that in this matter you are tempted by them to take too much upon you I am not insensible but that for my thus writing though I thereby have designed your Honour and good Order I am like enough to run the Gantlet among you and to partake most smartly of the scourge of the Tongues of some and to be soundly Brow-beaten for it by others Specially by our Author who will finde himself immediatly concerned for that I have blamed him for what he hath irregularly done both with the Word to you and me I look also to be sufficiently Scandalized and counted a man not for Prayer and Meetings for Prayer and the like but I will labour to bare them with Patience and seek their good that shall be tempted to abuse me I had not indeed I had not spoke a Word to this question in this manner had not Mr. K. sent his Paper abroad and amongst us for the encouraging this practise with us in Opposition to our peace I do not say he designed our breach but his Arguments tended thereto and had not our People been of a wise and quiet temper his Paper might have set us into a Flame But thanks be to God we are at quiet and walk in love notwithstanding the Lifts that have been to make us do otherwise There are also the mouths of some opened against me for this who lie at wait for Occasions and shew that they are glad to take them before they are given by mee to whom I now shew by this ensuing discourse that I had a reason to do what I did I commend you to God and to the Word of his Grace which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among them that are Sanctified by Faith in Jesus Christ to whom be Honour and Glory for ever And remaine your Faithfull Friend and Brother to Pray for you to love you in the Gospel and to do you what Christian Service I can John Bunyan A Case of Conscience Resolved c. THE occasion of my meddling in this manner with this Controversie is this After I had for reasons best known to my self by searching found that those called the Womens meetings wanted for their support a bottom in the Word I called them in our Fellowship into question Now having so done my reasons for so doing as was but reason were demanded and I gave them to the Causing of that practise with us to cease So subject to the Word were our Women and so willing to let go what by that could not be proved a duty for them to be found in the Practise of But when I had so done by what means I know not Mr. K hearing of my proceeding in this matter though I think he knew little of question or Answer sets Pen to Paper and draws up four Arguments for the Justification of those Meetings The which when done were sent down into our parts not to me but to some of his own perswasion who kept them or sent them or lent them whether they thought good And so about two years after with this note immediatly following they were conveyed to my hand Bro Bunyan This enclosed was sent to me from godly Women whose Custom for a long time hath bin to meet together to pray who hearing of your contrary Opinion sent this It came from Mr. K. who would desire to know what objections you have against it and he is ready to give his further advice Pray be pleased to give your Answer in writting for Mr. K. Expects it Pray be pleased to leave your Answer with S. F. in Bedford your Friends in the Lord S. B. S. F. Now having received the Papers and considering the contents thereof I was at First at a question with my self whether the thing was feigned or true and to that purpose writt to these Women again But calling to minde that I had heard something of this before I concluded there was ground to believe as I doe And so resolved to Answer his Demand and Expectation But to say nothing more as to this I will next present you with the Arguments he sent and
then with my manner of handling of them First he begins with this question Whether Women fearing God may Meet to pray together and whether it be Lawfull for them so to do which done he fals to a Wonderment saying It seems very strange to me that any who profess the Fear of God can make any question touching the Lawfulness thereof The rule for praying being so General to all and there being so many Instances for the Practice thereof upon several occasions in the Word of God for their incouragement therein In the next place he presents us with his Arguments which are in Number four but in Verity not one to prove that thing for the which he urgeth them as I hope to make appear by that I have done First saith he If Women may prayse God together for Mercies received for the Church of God or for themselves Then they may pray together the Proof whereof is plain Exod. 15.20 21. If it be objected the Case was Extraordinary and that Miriam was a Prophetess To which I Answer That the danger of Ruin and Destruction and our deliverance from it if the Lord grant it cannot be looked at but as Extraordinary The designs of ruin to the Church and Servants of God being as great as at that time when God delivered his People from the hand of Pharoah And will call for praises if the Lord please to send it as then And whereas it is further objected that Miriam was an Extraordinary Person To which I Answer That the Duty it self of praising God for the Mercie was incumbent upon all in as much as they were all partakers of the Mercie And the same Spirit of Christ that was in her is also in all his Servants Given for the same End both to Pray for Mercies we stand in need of and to praise God for Secondly If Women have in eminent danger to themselves and the Church of God Prayed joyntly together for deliverance and God hath Answered and approved of the same then may Women joyntly pray together The instance we have is famous Esther 4.16 We there see shee and her Maidens did pray and fast together and the Lord gave a gracious Answer and deliverance Thirdly If God hath in Gospel times promised the powring out of his Spirit to Women to that very end that they may pray together apart from Men Then it is not only their Liberty but Duty to Meet and Pray together But God hath promised his Spirit to that end Zech. 12.10 11 12 13. Which Scripture 't is plain is a promise of Gospel times And it is to be noted that the Text doth not in the singular number say HE shall Pray apart and. HIS Wife apart But THEY shall Pray apart and THEIR Wives apart And Malachi 3.16 God takes notice of all them that speak often together and CALL upon his name Fourthly If God hath so approved of Womens Meeting together to Pray in Gospel times as then and at that time to take an advantage to make known to them his mind and will concerning Jesus Christ then it is Lawfull for Women to Pray together But God hath so approved of their Meeting to Pray together Acts 16.13 By which Text it appeareth it was a frequent practise for Women to Meet and Pray together These are Mr. K's Arguments the Conclusion of his Paper Follows And besides ALL these particular instances says he what means those General rules to build up one another in our most Holy Faith and Pray in the Holy Ghost Jude 20. But it extends to all that believe both Men and Women unless any will say Women are not to be built up in their most Holy Faith Therefore let not any hinder you from a Duty so incumbent upon you in a special manner in such a day as this is Cannot many Women that have used this practise by experience say they have met with the Lord in it and have found many blessed returns of prayer from God both to themselves and the Church wherein God hath owned them Therefore what God hath Born Witness to and approved of let no Man deter you from Pray turn to the Scriptures quoted which I hope will give you full Satisfaction These are his Arguments and this his Conclusion in which I cannot but say there is not only Boldness but Flattery Boldness in Fathering of his mis-understanding upon the Authority of the Word of God and Flattery in Soothing up Persons in a way of their own by making of them the Judges in their own cause the which I hope to make further appear anon For since his Women in their Letter told me that Mr. K. expects my Answer I count my self called to shew the unsoundness of his Opinion Indeed he would as they insinuate confine me to Answer by Writing But his Papers have been I know not where and how to put check to his Extravagancies that also I know not but by Scattering mine abroad And as I will not be confined to an Answer in Writing So neither to his methods of Argumentation What Scholar he is I know not for my part I am not ashamed to Confess that I neither know the Mode nor Figure of a Sylogism nor scarce which is Major or Minor Methinks I perceive but little sence and far less truth in his Arguments also I hold that he has stretched and strained the Holy Word out of place to make it if it might have bin to shore up his fond conceits I shall therefore First take these Texts from the Errors to which he hath joyned them and then fall to picking the bones of his Sylogismes But as I shall not confine my self to his mode and way of Arguing So neither shall I take notice of his question upon which he stateth the matter in Controversie But shall propound the same question here which for the substance of it was handled among us when the thing it self was in doubt among us Namly Whether where a Church of Christ is Situate it is the Duty of the Women of that Congregation Ordinarily and by Appointment to Separate themselves from their Brethren and so to Assemble together to perform some parts of Divine Worship as Prayer c. without their Men This was our question this we debated and this Mr. K. might have sent for and have spoken to since he will needs be a confuter And courteous Reader since I have here presented thee with the Question I will also present thee with the method which I took when I handled it among my Brethren 1. I opened the Termes of the Question 2. Then shewed what Assemblies they were that used to perform divine Worship to God 3. And so shewed whose Prayers in such Worship was used or by Paul and others desired For the First 1. By Church of Christ I mean one gathered or Constituted by and walking after the Rule of the Word of God 2. By Situate I mean where such Church shall happen to be in whole or in the parts
thereof 3. By Separating I mean their Meetings together by appointment of their own and as so met to attempt to performe divine Worship Prayer without their Men. Having thus explained the Question I as a preparatory to a solution thereof come next to shew what manner of Assemblies they were that used to perform divine Worship to God of Old Now I finde that there have been three Sorts of Assemblies in which divine Worship has been performed 1st It has been performed in mixed Assemblies in Assemblies made up of Saints and Sinners I say divine Worship has been performed IN such Assemblies for that there the Saints have been Edified Sinners convinced and converted and made to confess their Sins to the Glory of God Of these Assemblies we read Matt. 5.1 Chap. 13.1 Chap. 23. Marc. 4.1 Chap. 2.1 Chap. 6.2 Chap. 10. Luk. 5. Chap. 8. Chap. 12. Chap. 13. Chap. 15. Chap. 20. 1 Cor. 14.24 And in many other Scriptures 2ly I also find that the Church by herself or as distinct from the World have met together to perform it by themselves Mar. 4.34 Acts. 12 4. Chap. 13.1 2. Chap. 15.4 Chap. 20.7 8. Joh. 20.19 26. 3ly I find also that Assemblies for divine Worship have been made up of the Elders and Principal Brethren of the Church none of the rest of the Congregation being present Matt. 10.1 Luk. 9.1 Acts 1.3 Chap. 2.17 18. Gal. 2.1.2 with several other Scriptures beside But in all the Scripture I find not that the Women of the Churches of Christ did use to separate themselves from their Brethren and as so separate performe Worship together among themselves or in that their Congregation or that they made by allowance of the Word appointment so to do Thus far therefore this must stand for a humane invention and Mr. K. for the promoter thereof 3ly This done in the third place I come to shew you whose Prayers or by whose mouth Prayer in such Assemblies as are above proved Lawful used to be made or by Paul or others were desired 1. Whose Prayers were used or who was the mouth and I find them called the Prayers of the Church in General or of the Principal Men thereof in particular Judg 2.4 5. Chap. 20.8.26 Jorl 1.14 Chap. 2.15 16. Acts 12.5 Acts 13.1 3. 2. Also when Paul or others desired that Prayers should be made of others for them They either desired the Prayers of the Church in General or of the Brethren in particular but never desireth or biddeth a Womans Meeting that Prayers might there be made for them 1. He desireth the Prayers of the Church in General Col. 4.2 Philipi 1.9 Chap. 4.6 1 Thes. 5.17 Heb. 13.18 2. Or if he desireth Prayers of certain Persons he only calls upon on the Men and Brethren in particular but never upon a Woman by name nor Sex to do it 1 Thes. 5.25 2 Thes. 3.1 Rom. 15.30 1 Tim. 2.8 Nor was as I said the Apostle alone in this thing Christ speaks a Parable to this end that MEN ought always to Pray James saith the effectual fervent Prayer of a righteous MAN Moses sent the young Men to Sacrifice And the People in the time of Zacharias sent their MEN to Pray before the Lord Luk. 18.1 Jam. 5.16 Exod. 24.5 Zach. 7.2 I do not believe that by any of these the Prayers of Women are despised but by these we are taught who as the mouth in Assemblies to Pray is commended unto us One Word more The Women in the time of Jeremy the Prophet when they had made their Cakes to the Queen of Heaven tho the thing which they did was as right in their own eyes as if they had done true Worship indeed and was Questioned by the Prophet for what they had done could not Justifie what they had done as to the Act but by pleading They did it not without their Men. Jer. 44.17 18 19. Thus having premised these few things I shall now come more directly to discourse of the Question it self TO WIT Whether where a Church of Christ is Situate it is the Duty of the Women of that Congregation Ordinarily and by appointment to separate themselves from their Brethren and as so separate to assemble together to perform divine Worship Prayer without their Men This was our Question and this I will now give a Negative Answer unto For I find not in Christs Testament any command so to do no nor yet Example and where there is none of these it cannot be a Duty upon them no nor yet Liberty but presumption to attempt it The Command says Mr. K. is General to All. But I Answer yet limited and confined to Order and manner of Performance Women may yea ought to Pray what then Is it their Duty to help to carry on Prayer in Publick Assemblies with Men as they Are they to be the audible mouth there before all to God No verily and yet the command is General to all to Pray Women of the respective Churches of Christ have no command to separate themselves from the Men of their Congregations to perform Prayer in their own Company without them and yet the command is General to all to Pray We must therefore distinguish of Persons and performances though we may not exclude either The manner also and Order in which such and such Duties must be done Mr. K. knows is as Essential in some cases as the very matter of VVorship But we will come to my reasons for my dissenting from Mr. K. in this After which I will consider his Arguments and the Scriptures that he would under-prop them with As for my reasons for my dissenting from him they are these First To appoint Meetings for divine VVorship either in the whole Church or in the parts of it Is an Act of Power which Power resideth in the Elders in particular or in the Church in General But never in the VVomen as considered by themselves Mr. K. indeed doth insinuate that this Power also resideth in them for he saith God hath in Gospel times promised the Spirit to Women to that very end that they may Pray together apart from Men. Now if the Spirit is given them to THIS very end that they may do it apart from Men then they have a Power residing in themselves to call their own Sex together to do it And what brave doings will such a conclusion make even the blind himself will perceive But further of this anon mean while we will our own assertion attend Namly That to call the Church or parts thereof together to perform divine Worship to God is an ACT of POWER which power resideth in the Church in General or in the Elders in particular We will treat of the last first First For the Eldership Moses and Aaron of Old were they with the Priests that were to call the Church together to perform divine Worship to God and that both as to the whole or as to the parts of it Numb 10.7.8 Deut. 4.14 Chap.
performance of this Worship in Assemblies is no part of the Watchman or Overseers work or in their Lawful absence the work of the principal Men of the Church Nor will the Faithful and Dutiful Overseer leave Worship no not in the best part of the Congregation Assembled to Worship to be performed by every weak Brother though I believe it might with more Warrant be left to them then to the strongest among our Ordinary ones of the other Sex Also our Elders and Watchmen covet if we have unbelievers to behold that our Worship be performed by the most able How then shall it be thought that they should be so silly to turn a Company of weak Women loose to be abused by the fallen Angels Can it be thought that their Congregation since they have it without a command shall fare better among those envious Spirits then those that are Lawfully called shall fare before the World Watchman Watchman see to thy Duty look well to the manner of Worship that is to be performed according to thy commission Trust not Eve as Adam did with Worship and with its defence Look that all things be done in Worship as becomes thee a Head both in Nature and by Office And leave not so solemn a part of Worship as Prayer in Company is and ought to be accounted to be done thou canst by no means tell how Watch in and over all such Worship thy self Be diligent to know the state of thy flocks whether they be flocks of Men or Women and look well to thy herds and though shalt have Milk enough not only for Men and Babes but also for the maintenance and life of thy Maidens So that they need not go with their pitchers to seek water there where their God has not sent them Pro. 27.23 24 25 26 27. Besides the Shepherds Tents is provision sufficient for them Cant. 1. But for a Conclusion of this I will ask this Man If he doth not by pleading for these Womens Meetings declare that the Women without their Men are better able by themselves to maintain divine Worship then the Men are without their Elders for as much as he himself will not alow that the Men should alwayes perform Worship without his oversight and inspection and yet will plead for the Women to have such Worship in their Congregation among themselves Excluding forever the Men therefrom For saith he The Spirit is promised to be given to them to that very end that they may Meet together to Pray apart without their Men. And now for Mr. K ' s. Arguments which as I said are in number four 1. VVe will take the Scriptures from them and 2. Then pick the bones of their carkases Yet in my taking of the Scriptures from his Arguments I will doe it in a way that is most to his advantage making of each of them as formidable an Objection as I can against my self 1. Object Miriam took a timbrill in her hand and went out and all the Women went out after her praising God with Timbrils and dances for their deliverances Therefore the Women of the Churches of Christ may appoint Meeting 's of their own as separate from their Brethren and then and there perform divine Worship Prayer in that their Congregation without their Men. Exo 15. Vers. 20 21. 1. Answer Miriam was a Prophetess and I suppose that none of our Women will pretend to be such And though Mr. K. labours to gett over this by saying that the work of Praising was incumbent upon all yet by his leave Judgment and discretion and a Spirit of Conduct Sutable to the Duty as we read of was found among the Women in none but shee Why is it else said Miriam led them forth Miriam the Prophetess did it Another by Mr. K's Argument might a done it as well Thus degrades he the Prophetess that he may gett favour with the Ordinary Women and prompt them on to a Work that he has a superstitious affection for 2. But his assertion is of no weight The Women were not left in that Extraordinary service to the Spirit of Ordinary Believers Nor can I count it but crooked dealing to bring in Extraordinary Persons in their Extraordinary Acts to prove it Lawful for Ordinary Persons to do that which is not commanded them 3. But though Miriam did go forth or come out with the Women yet not from the Men into some remote place in the Wilderness to Worship by themselves Shee rather went or came out and the Women followed her from the place by the Sea where now they were after Moses to sing as her Sex became her for she though an Extraordinary Woman might not make her self an Equall with Moses and Aaron therefore shee came behind in Worship yet with the Body of the People as it is said So Moses brought Israel from the red Sea Vers. 22. Women though Prophetesses must wear some badge or other of inferiority to those that are Prophets indeed 1 Cor. 11.3 4 5 6 7 8. And I chuse to understand that Miriam did this 1. Because the Text last mentioned says so 2. Because Miriam and all the Women did Sing with the Words of the Men Vers. 1. compared with 21. 3. For that they did Sing them after the Men as taking them from their mouth For saith the Text Miriam answered them and so handed it down to them of her Sex saying Sing ye to the Lord for he hath Triumphed Gloriously Vers. 1. and Vers. 21. 4. For that she commanded the Women that they should Sing the same Song hence it is called the Song of Moses not of Miriam Revel 15.3 5. From all which I conclude that Miriam did not draw the Women away into some such place where neither Moses nor Aaron nor the Elders of Israel could see behold and observe their manner of VVorship But that she as her modestie became her did lead them out from that place where they were to Sing and to Dance and to praise God after the Men. 6. This Scripture therefore favoreth not this Mans Oppinion To wit That it is the Duty of the Women of the Churches of Christ to separate themselves from their Brethren and as so separate to perform divine Worship by themselves 2. Object Esther the Queen performed with her Maidens this Duty of Prayer without their Men Therefore the Women of Gospel Churches may separate themselves from their Brethren and perform it among themselves Est. 4.16 1. Answer Esther was in the house of the Kings Chamberlain and could not at this time come to her Brethren No not to her Uncle Mordecai to consult how to prevent an aproaching Judgment Yea Mordecai and shee were fain to speak one to another by Hatach whom the King had appointed to attend upon the Queen Vers. 5.6 7 8 9. So she could by no means at that time have communion with the Church No marvel therefore if she fasted with her Maidens alone For so she must now do or not do
at all But I will here ask this our Argumentator whether Esther did count it a burden or a Priviledge thus now to be separated from her Brethren and so forced to perform this Work as she did If a Priviledge let him prove it If a burden he has little cause to make use of it to urge that her Practise then for a ground to Women that are at liberty to separate from their Brethren to performe such Worship by themselves in their Company without their Men. 2. We do not read that she desired that any of the Women that were at Liberty should come from the Men to be with her whence we may gather that she preferred their Liberty to Worship with Men far beyond a Womans Meeting She counted that too many by her self and her Maidens were in such bondage already 3. Neither did she attempt to take that unavoidable Work upon herself but as begging of the Men that Shee might by their Faith and Prayers be Born up therein clearly concluding that Shee did count such work too hard for Women to perform by themselves without the help of their Men Vers. 15.16 4. Besides this Womans Meeting as Mr. K. would have it was made up of none but the Queen and her Houshold Maides and with but few of them nor will we complaine of our honest Women when the case is so that they cannot go out to the Church to do this if they Pray with their Maids at home 5. But what if Esther did Pray with her Maids in her Closet because Shee could not come out to her Brethren Is it fair to make the necessity of a Woman in Bondage a Law to Women at Liberty This Argument therefore is erronious and must not have this Text to shore it up we therefore take it away from his Words and proceed to a sight of his next 3. Object But it is said by the Prophet Zecharias that the Spirit is promised to be given in new Testament times to Women that they may Pray together apart from Men Zech. 12.11 12 13. Answ. The Text says nothing so but is greatly abused by this Man Indeed it says their Wives shall mourn apart but it saith not they shall do so together Yea that they shall separate themselves by the dictate of God from their Brethren to do so Is that which this Text knows nothing of Sometimes many may be together apart from others but why Mr. K. to serve his purpose should wrack and strain this Text to Justifie his Womans Meeting I see no reason at all My reason against him is for that the look here upon him whom we have peirced which is to be the cause of this mourning is to be by an immediate revelation of the Holy Ghost who doth not use to tell before hand when he will so come down upon us But such a Meeting as Mr. K. intends must be the product of Consultation and time I will pour saith God upon the House of David the Spirit of Grace and supplication and then they shall look that is when that Spirit so worketh with them as to enable them so to do Now I say I would know since this mourning is to be the effect of this look and so before one is aware Song 6.12 whether Mr. K. can prove that these Women were to have an Item before hand when they should have this Look But as it would be Ridiculous thus to conclude so as Ridiculous is it to think to prove his Womens Meetings from hence Nor doth the Conclusion that he hath made hereupon prove more but that he is ignorant of the Work of the Spirit in this matter or that his fondness for the Womens Meetings hath made him forgett his own experience For how can one that never had but one such Look upon Jesus Christ draw such a Conclusion from hence And that all those Women should have this Look at the same time even all the Women of the House of David and of the inhabitants of Jerusalem that they might all of them by the Direction of the Holy Ghost separate themselves from their Men to hold a Womans Meeting or Meetings by themselves for this is more fictitious then one would imagin a Man should Dream If he says that the Women have a promise to have this Look when they please or that they are suer to have it cause 't is intailed to THEIR Meeting for this seems to come nearest his conclusion yet what unavoidable inconveniencies will flow therefrom I leave to any to Judge But I take this mourning to be according as another of the Prophets say They shall be upon the Mountains like doves of the valleys all of them mourning every one for his Iniquity Ezek. 7.16 All those Souls therefore that shall be counted worthy to have this look shall mourn apart or by themselves when they have it For though a Man cannot appoint to himself when he will repent of his Sins or when the Holy Ghost will work yet he shall repent indeed he shall do it I say when HE doth so work not staying till another can do so too And since our own Iniquity will then make us best consider our own case mourning apart or every one for their own Iniquity is most naturally proper thereto And this is the mourning that shall be in the House of David Jerusalem the Church both with Men and Women at all times when the Holy Ghost shall help us to look upon him whom we have pierced Pray God give Mr. K. and my self more of these lookes upon a Crucified Christ for then we shall understand this and other such like Scriptures otherwise then to draw such incoherent inferences from them as he doth 4. Object Women were wont in Gospel times to meet together to Pray Therefore the Women in Gospel Churches may separate themselves from their Brethren to perform divine Worship by themselves without their Men. Acts 16.13 This is another of his Scriptures brought to uphold this fancy But Answ. 1. It is not said that the Women of Churches met together alone to Pray But that Paul went down to a River-side where Prayer was wont to be made and spake unto the Women that resorted thither It looks therefore most agreeable to the Word to think that there the Law was read by the Jewish Priests to the prosesited Women of that City and that Prayer as was their custom in all such service was intermixed therewith But this is but Conjecturall And yet for all that it is better grounded and hath more reason on its side then hath any of this mans Arguments for the Opinion of his Womens Meetings But 2. There was there at that time no Gospel Church of Christ nor before that any Gospel Ministry consequently no Church Obedience Should it then be granted that there were none but women at that Meeting and that their Custom was to meet at that River-side to Pray it doth not therefore follow that their Practice was to
be a Pattern a Rule a Law to women in Churches to separate from their Brethren to perform Divine Worship in their own Womans Congregation without their Men. 3. There was there no Gospel-Believer Lydia her self before Paul came thither had her heart shut up against the Faith of Jesus Christ and how a company of Strangers to Gospel Faith should in that their doing be a Pattern to the women in Churches a Pattern of Christian VVorship I do not understand 4. If Pauls Call to Philippi had been by the vision of a VVoman or VVomans Meeting what an argument would this man have drawn from thence to have justified his womens Meetings but since 't was by a man he hath lost an argument thereby Though he notwithstanding doth adventure to say that God so approved of that Meeting as then and at that time to take advantage to make known his Mind and VVill to them concerning Jesus Christ. 5. And now I am in since Mr. K. will needs have this Scripture to justifie such a practice I wonder that he so lightly over looked Pauls going to that Meeting for thither he went to be sure ver 13.16 Yea how fairly to his thinking might he have pleaded that Paul by this act of his was a great lover countenancer and commender of those he calls the VVomens Meetings Paul went to the Womens Meeting at Phillipi therefore it is lawful for the women of Gospel Churches to separate from their Brethren and to Congregate by themselves for the performance of some parts of Divine Worship I say how easily might he have said this and then have poâ—t in those two verses above quoted and so have killed the old one For the word lies liable to be abused by the ignorance of men and it had been better then it is if this had been the first time that this man had served it so for the justification of his Rigid Principles but when men out of a fond conceit of their own abilities or of prejudice to them that contradict their Errors are tempted to shew their folly they will not want an opportunity from false Glosses put upon the Text to do it 6. But Paul went to that company to Preach Christs Gospel to them not for that they merited his coming but of the Grace of God as also did Peter and John when at the hour of Prayer they went up into the Temple and Paul into the Synagogue at Antioch Acts 3.1 2 3. chap. 13.14 15 16. But as fairly might this man have urged that the healing of the Lame man that lay at that time at the Gate of the Temple and the Conversion of them by Paul at Antioch was by the procurement of the Prayers of the Sisters and by their reading of the Law in that Synagogue at Antioch as to argue as he has done that God was so well pleased or so well approved of that VVomans Meeting as he feigns it at Phillippi as to send c. to them his Minister 7. But again that this Womans Meeting should be so deserving and that while they were without the Faith of Christ as to procure a Gospel Minister to be sent unto them that Christ might to them be made known and yet that so few of them should be converted to the Faith seems a greater Paradox to me For we read not that one of the women then or of them of the Town that did use to go that Meeting for Lydia was of Thyatira was ever converted to Christ Brethren we read of several but we hear not of any one more of those Women Vers. 10. But Lydia worshipped God therefore her practice might prevail Although 't is said she worshipped God yet she was but a Proselyte as those Acts 13. was and knew no more of Christ then the Eunuch did Acts 8. But hold she had Faith will that make all practice acceptable yea Law and Commandment to others and the work of those that have none Meritorious But we must touch upon these things anon 5. Object But saith Mr. K. Malachi 3.16 doth countenance those Meetings Answ. Not at all though Mr. K. has pleased to change a Term in the Text to make it speak his mind for he has put out thought and put in call but all will not do his work for when he has done what he can 't will be difficult to make that Scripture say It is the duty of women in Gospel-Churches to separate from their Brethren to perform Divine VVorship among themselves 6. Obj. But Jude 20. doth justifie these Meetings except saith he any will say Women are not to be built up in their most Holy Faith Answ. How fain would the man lay hold on something onely he wants Divine Help that is the VVord of God to bottom his things upon But doth the Apostle here at all treat of the VVomen and their Meetings or are they only the Beloved and to be built up c. Speaks he not there to the Church which consisteth of men and women and are not men the more noble part in all the Churches of Christ. But can women no other way be built up in their most holy faith but by Meetings of their own without their men But Building up your SELVES I suppose is the thing he holds by But cannot the Church and every woman in it build up themselves without their Womans Meetings wherefore have they the Word their Closet and the grace of Meditation but to build up themselves withall He saith not Build up one another but if he had it might well have been done without a Womans Meeting But any thing to save a drowning man This Text then is written to the Church of Christ by which it is exhorted to Faith and Prayer but it speaks not a word of a Womans Meeting and therefore it is fooling with the VVord to suggest it I cannot therefore while I see this impertinent dealing but think our Argumentator dotes or takes upon him to be a Head of those he thinks to rule over The womans Letter to me also seems to import the same when they say Mr. K. would desire to know what Objections you have against it his Arguments and he is ready to give his further advice Thus having taken from his Arguments those Holy Words of God which he has abused to make them stand I come next to the Arguments themselves and intend to pick their Bones for the Crows 1. He saith That the same Spirit that was in Miriam is also in all Gods Servants for the same end both to pray for Mercies we stand in need of and to praise God for Mercies received 1. Answer But the question is whether Miriam did as she led out the women to dance 〈◊〉 only as an ordinary Saint And if you evade this you chuse the tongue of the Crafty and use the words of deceit For she managed that work as she was Miriam the Prophetess and in your next Pray tell your women so 2. But as Miriam the
Prophetess she did not lead the women from their men to worship in some place remote by themselves as we have shewed before 2dly He saith that God hath promised to pour out his Spirit in Gospel times to that very end that women might Pray together apart from men Answer Not mentioning again what was said before I add if by men he means the Brethren the Prophet will not be his Voucher for he neither saith nor intimates such a thing 2. And how far short this saying is of making of God and his holy Prophet the Author of Schism in Worship and an encouragement unto Schism therein 't is best in time that he looks to it For if they may withdraw to do thus at one time they may withdraw to do thus at another And if the Spirit is given to them to this very end that they may go by themselves from the Church to perform this Divine Worship at one time they may for what bounds this man has set them go by themselves to do thus always But as I said the whole of this Proposition being false the Error is still the greater 3dly God saith he hath so well approved of women meeting together to Pray in Gospel times as then and at that time to take occasion to make known his Mind and Will to them concerning Jesus Christ Acts 16.13 Answ. Let the Reader consider what was said afore and now it follows If this Assertion be true then Popish Doctrine of Merit is good yea the worst sort of it which is works done afore Faith For that we read of none of these women save Lydia feared or worshipped God and yet saith he God so approved of that Meeting as then at that time to send them his Gospel which is one of the Richest Blessings nor will it help to lay Cornelius now in my way for the deservings here were for ought we read of women that feared not God Here Lydia only bare that Character 't is said SHE worshipped God but she was not all the women But Mr. K. saith thus of them all I know also there was Faith in some in Messias to come though when he came they knew not his person but this is not the case neither These women who held up as he feigned this Meeting were not as we read of of this people 4. He said That Esther and her Maids Fasted and Prayed and the Lord gave a gracious return or answer and deliverance That is to the Church that then was under the Rage of Haman Answ. Let the Reader remember what was said before and now I ask this man 1. Whether Mordecai and the good men then did not Pray and Fast as well as she And if so whether they might not obtain at least some little of the Mercy as well as those women If so 2. Whether Mr. K. in applying the deliverance of this people to the prayer of the Queen and her Maids for he lays it only there be not deceitful arguing and doth not tend to puff up that Sex to their hurt and dammage yea whether it doth not tend to make them unruly and head strong But if they be more gently inclined to obedience no thanks to Mr. K. 3. And if I should ask Mr. K. who gave him authority to attribute thus the deliverance of this people to who and what Prayers he please I suppose it would not be easie for him to answer The Text saith not that the Prayers of these women procured the Blessing But Mr. K. hath here a Womans Meeting to vindicate and therefore it is that he is thus out in his mind Prayers were heard and the Church was delivered And I doubt not but that these good women had hand and heart in the work But should all be admitted that Mr. K. hath said as to this also yet this Scripture as hath already been proved will not justifie his womans Meeting 5. He makes his appeal to the women if they have not obtained by their Prayers in these their Meetings many blessed returns of Prayer from God both to themselves and the Church of God Answ. I count this no whit better then the very worst of his Paper for besides the silliness of his appeal by which he makes these good women to be Judg in their own cause his words have a direct tendance in them to puff them up to their destruction I have wondred sometimes to see when something extraordinary hath happened to the Church of God for good that a few women meeting together to Pray should be possessed with a conceit that they fetched the benefit down from heaven when perhaps ten thousand men in the Land prayed for the Mercy as hard as they Yea I have observed that though the things bestowed were not so much as thought of by them yet they have been apt to conclude that their meeting together has done it But poor women you are to be pittied your Tempter is to bear the blame to wit this man and his Fellows I come now to some Objections that may yet be thought on and will speak a word to them 1. Object It is said Where two or three are gathered together in my name I am there in the midst of them Matt. 18.20 Answer To gather together in Christs Name is to gather together by his Authority That is by his Law and Commandment Acts 4.17 18 30. Chap. 5.28.40 Colos. 3.17 But we have no Law of Christ nor Commandment that the Women of this or that Church should separate themselves from their Brethren to maintain Meetings among themselves for the performing of Divine Worship and therefore such Meetings cannot be in his name that is by his Authority Law and Commandment and so ought not to be at all 2. Object But Women may if sent for by them of their own Sex come to see them when they are sick and when so come together Pray in that Assembly before they part Answ. The Law of Christ is Is any sick among you let him and the Woman is included in the Man call for the Elders of the Church and let them Pray over him c. and to this Injunction there is a threefold promise made 1. And the Prayer of Faith shall save the Sick 2. And the Lord shall raise him up 3. And if he have committed Sin they shall be forgiven him Jam. 5.14 15. And considering this advice is seconded with so much Grace I think it best in all such cases as in all other to make the Word of God our Rule 3. Object But Women have sometimes cases which modesty will not admit should be made known to Men what must they do then Answ. Their Husband and they are one Flesh and are no more to be accounted two Let them tell their grief to them Thus Rachel asked Children of her Husband and went not to a nest of Women to make her Complaint to them Gen. 30.1 or let them betake themselves to their Closets with Rebecca Gen. 25.20
21 22 23. or if they be in the Assembly of the Saints let them Pray in their Hearts with Hannah And if their petition be Lawfull I doubt not but they may be Heard 1 Sam. 1.13 Our Author perhaps will say I have not spoken to his Question which was Whether Women fearing God may Meet to Pray together And whether it be Lawfull for them so to do But I Answer I have with respect to all such Godly Women as are in the Churches of the Saints 1 Cor. 14.33 34 35. compared with Vers. 15 16 17. And when he has told us that his Question respected only those out of Churches then will I confess that I did mistake him Yes he will gett nothing thereby for as much as his Question to be sure intends those in special Also his Arguments are for the Justifying of that their Practise Now the reason why I waved the form of his Question was because it was both scanty and lean of Words as to the matter of Controversie in hand Also I thought it best to make it more ample and distinct for the Edification of our Reader And if after all Mr. K. is not pleased at what I have done let him take up the Question and Answer it better The Man perhaps may fly to the case of utter necessity and so bring forth another Question to wit whether if the Men of a Church should all die be murdered or cast into prison The Women of that Church may not Meet together to Pray And whether it be not Lawfull for them so to do But when he produceth a necessity for the puting of such a Question and then shall put it to me I will as God shall help me give him an Answer thereto But may some say Our Women in this do not what they do of their own Heads they are allowed to do what they do by the Church I Answer No Church-allowance is a Foundation sufficient to Justifie that which is neither Commanded nor Allowed by the Word Besides who knows not that have their Eyes in their Heads what already has and what further may come into the Churches at such a gapp as this And now to give the Reader a Cautionary Conclusion 1. Take heed of letting the name or good shew of a thing begett in thy Heart a Religious reverence of that thing but look to the Word for thy bottom for it is the Word that Authorizeth what ever may be done with Warrant in Worship to God without the Word things are of humain invention of what Splendor or Beauty soever they may appear to be Without doubt the Fryers and Nunns and their Religious Orders were of a good intent at first as also compulsive vowes of chastitie single life and the like But they were all without the Word and therefore as their bottom wanted divine Authority so the Practise wanted Sanctity by the Holy Ghost The Word Prayer is of it self in appearance so Holy that he forthwith seems to be a Devil that forbids it And yet we finde that Prayers have been out of joynt and disorderly used and therefore may by one without incurring the danger of damnation be called into Question and if found without Order by him he may labour to set them in joynt again Matt. 6.5 6 7 8. Chap. 23.14 Jam. 4.3 I am not of the number of them that say Of what profit is it if we should Pray unto God Job 21.15 But finding no good footing in the Word for that kind of service we have treated about above and knowing that error and humain inventions in Religion will not offer themselves but with wiped lipps and a countenance as demure as may be and also being perswaded that this Opinion of Mr. K. is vagrant yea a meer alien as to the Scriptures I being an Officer have apprehended it and put it in the stocks and there will keep it till I see by what Authority it has leave to pass and repass as it lists among the Godly in this Land 2ly Yet by all that I have said I never meant to intimate in the least but that believing Women are Saints as well as Men And members of the body of Christ. And I will add that as they and we are united to Christ and made members of his mystical body the fulness of him that sills all in all So there is no superiority as I know of but we are all one in Christ. For the Man is not without the Woman nor the Woman without the Man in the Lord nor are we counted as Male or Female in him 1 Cor. 11.11 Galat. 3.28 Ephes. 1.23 Only we must observe that this is spoken of that Church which is his True Mystical Body and not of every particular Congregation of professing Christians The Churches of Christ here and there are also called his Body But no Church here though never so famous must be taken for that of which mention was made afore As Christ then has a Body Mystical which is called his Members his Flesh and his Bones Ephes. 5.30 So he has a Body Politick Congregations modelled by the skill that his Ministers have in his Word for the bearing up of his Name and the preserving of his Glory in the World against Antichrist In this Church Order and Discipline for the nourishing up of the True Mystical Body of Christ has been placed from the Foundation of the World Wherefore in this Laws and Statutes and Government is to be looked after and given heed unto for the Edification of that which is to arive at last to a perfect Man To the measure of the Statute of the Fulness of Christ 1 Cor. 12.27 28 29 Ephes. 4.11 12 13. Now where there is Order and Government by Laws and Statutes There must of necessity be also a distinction of Sex Degrees and Age Yea Offices and Officers must also be there for our furtherance and Joy of Faith From which Government and Rule our Ordinary Women are excluded by Paul nor should it since it is done by the Wisdom of God be any offence unto them In this Church there are oft times many Hypocrites and formal Professors and Heresies That they which are approved may be made manifest 1 Cor. 11.19 These therefore being there and being suffered to act as they many times do provoke the Truly Godly to contend with them by the Word For that these Hypocrites and formal Professors Naturaly incline to a denyal of the power of Godliness and to set up forms of their own in the stead thereof Mark 7.6 7 8 9. 2 Tim. 3.5 And this is done for the sake and for the good of those that are the true Members of the body of Christ and that are to arive at his Haven of Rest From whom those others at last shall be purged and with them all their things that offend Matt. 13.40 Then shall the righteous shine like the Sun in the Kingdom of their Father He that hath Ears to hear let him hear This