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woman_n brother_n daughter_n sister_n 5,598 5 10.9500 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A10269 Certaine questions by way of conference betwixt a chauncelor and a kinswoman of his concerning the churching of women 1601 (1601) STC 20557; ESTC S105979 24,479 73

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Indeed I confesse that if the Queene or Princesse of a lande in whom the whole Realme hath an interest were deliuered of a Babe then I take it the Church had some reasons to make a Publike and generall Churching or Thankesgiuing to God As I haue heard that for the birth of King Edward there was But otherwise such an ordinarie seruice as yours is for euery private woman such as my self hath in mine opinion neither legges nor foundation to stande on Chauncelor O I remember now these were some of the woorthy reasons that your Minister alleaged when hee was before me in Mistres Winters case Woman But what thinke you Were they not sound reasons or are you able by any colour of reason to answere or avoid them Chauncelor Well by your leaue your Minister as holy as he is plaied the Asse there egregiously Woman How so I pray you Wherein I premise you I see not but hee did that which belongeth to him in all faithfulnesse Chauncelor Why is not shee his patronesse I pray you and did not her husband giue him the benefice Woman What of that Chauncelor Why then you must needes confesse he dealt but badly with her vnkindly to refuse to Church her Woman I see no vnkindnesse in it in the world nor yet any vndutifulnesse to her considering at what an vnconvenient time shee sent for him on the Saboth day morning and that in all post hast of purpose as it is thought to pike a quarrell to him having conceyved a bitter displeasure against him for his Sermon before Chauncelor Alas the gentlewomā had thought as shee saith and had verely purposed to haue gone to Church her self ouer-night but the weather falling out something whette and slabbie in the morning had it bene such a matter for him to haue come downe to her when shee sent for him Woman What at that time and houre betwixt 9 and 10 of the clocke when he was readie to goe to the sermon Had that bene fitte thinke you Chauncelor Sermon me no Sermons By the masse I would not haue hazarded her displeasure for that knowinge that my living did depend vpon it Why might hee not haue preached an other time or haue fained some excuse for that present that hee had not ben well or so Woman Nay like enough This is euen like your selues and fully sutable to the rest of your proceedings What other fruites should one looke for from men of your constitution But doeth not this iustifie that whiche I haue so often charged you with That you more prize esteeme these bables of your owne hatching and invention then the sacred ordinance of God And is it not a strange witcherie that ye can bee content amongst you thus to suffer the Preaching and Ministerie of the woord to giue place to a Iewish or Popish ceremonie Chauncelor O be not angrie good Cousen Woman Well ye may see if yee will not wilfullie blindfolde your selues what mischief and inconvenience comes by this so crosse and perverse dealing of yours For what with the care of the Decencie of Churching and your carelesnesse of the necessitie of Preaching ye haue almost marred all amongst you and brought it so to passe that the poore ignorant people of the lande doe thinke all the service of GOD to lye in Churching Crossing Kneeling and beeing houseled as they call it at Easter As for Preaching they holde that for a superfluous and needlesse Ceremonie and therfore when their seruice is done they take it they may lawfullie goe out of the Church though the Minister be readie to goe into the Pulpitt And all this my good Cousen is long of you and your associates I must needs in all plainesse tell you what I thinke Chauncelor Well these be things that you and I shall not redresse in hast gentle kinswoman We may well wish and pray for the redresse but yea faith neither you nor al your precise brotherhood can for your liues tell how to helpe it Woman If we can not helpe it as you say yet it were to bad to go about to hinder it as you doe you speake of praying and wisshing yet I can not see that you do so much as wish and desire the thing you speake of Nay it were well if yee did indeed wish a reformation and redresse from your heartes Chauncelor Why do you thinke mee so farre gone that I doe not wish well to the Church and State wherein I liue Woman It seemes no by your owne speaches For in your mouth you condemne the Minister for that which in your conscience you ought to commend him for And what was the Ministers fault I pray you Forsooth he would not forsake and giue ouer his Preaching to Church his Patronesse Wherevpon you sweare Sermon you no sermons Yea and by your leaue when the matter came before you to your reproch be it spoken good Cousen God forgiue you for it you tooke part with the Gentlewoman against our Minister Call you this to wish well and to desire and pray for reformation and amendement Chanucelor Tush that was but in one particular woman and for once only that I would haue had him ouerskipt his sermon for a future benefire both to the Church and him self and what hurt had it bene I pray you for him to haue layed aside one sermon that afterward hee might haue preached manie sermons in peace As for my taking part with the Gentlewoman that was for your Ministers good if you and he had eyes to see it to the end that I might afterward th'easilier pacifie and preuaile with the Gentlewomā who I assure you was mightilie incensed against him and had in purpose to remooue him if shee could Woman Well if your purpose and intent were good I am gladde of it though God you see doe seldome blesse but rather crosse curse these purposes of yours because you walke not with a straight foote and an vpright heart But to lett that passe and to come to our former speach of Thankesgiuing would you haue the Woman alone giue God thankes for that blessing or her friendes to ioine with her therein Chauncelor What a question is that Is it not fitte and requisite that her friendes that loue her should ioine with her in so good an action Woman How happens it then that ye handle the matter so amongest you in your manner of Churching That neither the Husbande must ioyne with his wife nor the Father with his daughter nor the Sonne with his Mother nor the Brother with his Sister nor they that are most bounde in nature and by the law of GOD to giue thankes must not at all medle with it nor haue anie thing to doe with all as if they had no interest in that blessing at all but were meere straungers to it Chanucelor O it is fittest in good faith that they onely that were by the woman in her anguish and trauell should be by her also at her Thankesgiving What a