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A15093 The way to the true church wherein the principall motiues perswading according to Romanisme and questions touching the nature and authoritie of the church and scriptures, are familiarly disputed, and driuen to their issues, where, this day they sticke betweene the Papists and vs: contriued into an answer to a popish discourse concerning the rule of faith and the marks of the church. And published to admonish such as decline to papistrie of the weake and vncertaine grounds, whereupon they haue ventured their soules. Directed to all that seeke for resolution: and especially to his louing countrimen of Lancashire. By Iohn White minister of Gods word at Eccles. For the finding out of the matter and questions handled, there are three tables: two in the beginning, and one in the end of the booke. White, John, 1570-1615. 1608 (1608) STC 25394; ESTC S101725 487,534 518

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worketh outwardly the things that are good but by a reciprocall aspect it seeth it selfe and yeeldeth assurance to the subiect In which sence Saint Austin o De trinit l. 13 c. 1. saith Euery man if he haue faith seeth it in his heart or seeth it not if he haue none And again p Lib. 8. c. 8. He that loueth his brother knoweth the charitie wherewith he loueth him better then he knoweth his brother whom he loueth 8 This is proued by the saying of Saint Paul q Rom. 8.15 We haue receiued not the spirit of bondage to feare any more but the spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba Father and the same spirit beareth witnesse with our spirit that we are the sonnes of God Whereunto it is ridiculous to answer that this testimonie which God giueth vnto vs by his spirit is but coniecturall that is to say such as stirreth vp our vnderstanding onely vpon probable coniectures to beleeue which yet are subiect to error For so Gods spirit should manifestly deceiue vs and the spirit of bondage to feare should remaine still and his spirit should teach vs to cry Father when we are not his children and finally in giuing testimony be subiect to the same fallibilitie that ours is The same Apostle r 2. Cor. 13.5 saith Proue your selues whether you are in the faith examine your selues know ye not that Christ is in you except ye be reprobates To what purpose should men examine themselues if they can find no infallible certaintie for they might reply againe we haue tried our selues and find Christ to be in vs by faith and charitie but we are neuer the neare we may be reprobates for all this and thy preaching hath done vs no good for the Papists tell vs our knowledge is but coniecturall and our examination cannot secure vs from feare or error which were absurd Againe he saith Å¿ Eph. 1.13 After ye beleeued the Gospell ye were sealed with the holy spirit of promise and Saint Iohn t 1. Ioh. 3.19 We know that we are of the truth and before him we shal make our hearts confident u 4.13 Hereby we know that we dwell in him and he in vs because he hath giuen vs of his spirit x 5.13 I haue written vnto you that beleeue that ye may know ye haue eternal life This sealing sheweth that the elect haue the very marke of God vpon them whereby they are infallibly distinguished from the world and the knowledge thereof which is attributed to them declareth that they see the seale and so consequently cannot be deceiued as he that seeth his seale vpon his goods thereby infallibly and not by coniecture onely knoweth them to be his owne But saying we know we haue the truth we dwell in him we haue eternall life we make our hearts confident he sheweth plainly how false it is that faith and loue cannot be knowne to be present without reuelation For all this he saith we know by that which is written and if we knew it but morally and probably without full assurance then we should be confident euen by Gods owne appointment in that which might deceiue vs. Againe Stapleton y De Iustificat l. 9. c. 13. in marg confesseth that Saint Paul pronounceth the same certaintie of other mens saluation that he doth of his owne and therefore we may haue assurance of grace and perseuerance as well as he had for z 1. Cor. 7.40 Rom. 8.38 2. Tim. 4.8 in diuers places he sheweth that he was assured of Gods spirit and grace and eternall life 9 You shall heare what the ancient Fathers say touching this matter a Hom. 17. pag. 248. Macarius saith Although they are not as yet entred into the whole inheritance prepared for them in the world to come yet through the earnest which they now receiue they are as certaine of it as if they were already crowned and raigning Neither do they thinke it strange that they shal thus raigne together with Christ by reason of the abundance and confidence of the spirit And why so Euen because being yet in the flesh they haue the tast of the sweetnes and the efficacie of the power thereof The diuell couered the soule of man with a darke veile but afterward cometh grace and putteth off that veile wholly whereby hereafter the soule is purified and made able with purenesse to behold the glory of true light and the true Sunne of righteousnesse as it were lightening in his heart Saint Austine b In Psal 149. post med saith There is a kind of glorying in the conscience when thou knowest thy faith is sincere thy hope certaine thy loue without dissembling Saint Austine therefore tooke it for granted that these things might be knowne Hierome not the ordinary doctor of that name but a Greeke writer c De baptism pag. 3. saith that as a woman with child feeleth the springing thereof in her wombe within her so the baptized by the ioy and comfort and reioycing which is wrought in the heart know that the spirit of God dwelleth in them the which they receiued in their baptisme Gregorie the Bishop of Rome d Dial l. 1. c. 1. saith The minde filled with Gods spirit hath her most euident signes euen vertue and humilitie the which if they perfectly meete in the mind then it is plaine they giue testimony that the holy Ghost is present Bernard e Epist 107. saith Who is iust but he that returneth loue to God who hath loued him The which is done when the spirit by faith reuealeth to a man the eternall purpose of God concerning his future saluation Which reuelation is nothing else but the infusion of spirituall grace whereby the deeds of the flesh are mortified and the man prepared to the kingdome of heauen Let these speeches of the ancient be well looked into and it will appeare they contain all that I haue affirmed touching the certainty of grace and saluation 10 And to what purpose do our aduersaries take such paines and deuise such shifts to answer them They say these and such like places proue there is a certaintie on Gods behalfe but not on ours as if God reuealing his certaintie to vs did not thereby create in vs the like as when a man looketh his face in a glasse he imprinteth in the glasse the same forme that is in his face They say we haue an experimentall or morall knowledge but not an infallible certaintie not assurance of faith and such like This they answer and their friends sit down contented with it whereas notwithstanding when they haue wrangled what they can they say the very same that I haue layd downe and if their words shew it not I am content you beleeue me no more For first touching the discerning of our selues whether we be in grace f Altisiod sum l. 3. pag. 165. Alexan. 3. part pag. 254. the eldest and best learned Schoolmen that I
men The which things we say God hath tied no man to neither by word nor example in all the Scripture Thirdly the disgracing of religious orders as this Iesuite speaketh began not in the Protestants but themselues as I will shew presently and the first that moued and effected the plucking downe of Abbeys in England was not the Protestants but Cardinall Wolsey g Onuphr vit Pont. Sand. de schism Angl. the scum and scandall of mankind and what the Protestants afterwards did the vncleannesse of the Monks deserued 11 And though we grant that Antonie and Benet and others of that time practised a certaine kinde of Monachisme and liued solitary yet were they Monks of another kind as far from these of the Church of Rome as the time is distant wherin they liued Their religion was not the same their manners were better their conuersation euery way was of another sort And the religious orders among the Papists haue nothing of theirs but the names onely whereby as the Asse with the Lions skin on his backe they gull the ignorant that thinke euery thing is the same that hath the same name For those ancient Monkes betook themselues to solitude at the first not with any opinion of perfection but h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Soz. l. 1. c. 12. Niceph. l. 8. c. 39 to escape persecution and to hide themselues And when they found by experience that the life fitted their austeritie and rid them of many worldly cares they increased it the more and followed certaine rules for study and behauiour religious exercises much like as is vsed this day in Colledges In which course of life i Antidida Colon pag. 131. Dion eccl hier c. 6. some were lay men not medling with Ecclesiasticall matters k Athan. ep ad Dracont some were maried and liued in that state l Eras vit Ierō they bound themselues with no vowes m Aug. de mor. eccl l. 1. c. 33. Niceph. l. 9 c. 14 nor made any distinction of meates n Vitas patrum part 2. § 51. Niceph vbi supra they laboured with their hands o Sozo l. 1. c. 12 Ieron ep 13. ad Paulin. and liued not in cities but alone and remote from men with many other customes which the Monkes of this time obserue not whereby they proue themselues to be as far from Antony and Benet as we are Yea diuers among themselues complaine p Polyd. hist Angl. l. 6. that it is incredible to speake how much they are degenerated And q Alua. Pelag. planct pag. 130. though they haue the likenesse of the Apostles yet they are remoued far from their life Let the Church lament her Monkes and say Where be my ancient Monkes which founded the Church and held the holy life of the primitiue Church This sheweth * Liber pater praeponitur libro patrum Calicibus epotandis non codicibus emendandis indulget hodie studium monachorum quibus lasciuam musicam Timothei pudicis moribꝰ aemulam non verentur adiungere sicque cantus ludentis non planctus lugentis officiū efficitur monachale Greges vellera fruges horrea porri olera potus patera lectiones sunt hodie studia monachorum Rich. Dunelm Philobibl c. 5. the religious men of the Romane Church are of another cut then in the time of Antony and Benet they were and therefore disgracing them we touch not the old Monks of that time but birds of another fether 12 And if we haue thought and spoken hardly of them touching their conuersation and so disgraced them what maruell when the very sauour of their cloisters bewrayed them and the stinke of their hypocrisie was such that all the world was annoyed with it and their owne writers chronicled it Must the holinesse of Monks and Nunnes be a signe of the true Church and layd in as an argument against vs and must we be condemned for suppressing them and yet may we not be allowed to looke a little into it and see if it were so indeed or otherwise I see no reason but we may lawfully and without any suspition of malice examine that holinesse that vpon so great termes is put vpon vs and see whether it be so or no and let the shame be theirs that are guiltie and the fault be layd vpon them that first cold the tales out of the schoole For we for our parts are confident that in all their Church they could haue found no holinesse which they might worse haue stood vpon then this of their cloisters of whom their own r Inuent l. 7. c. 5. Polydore saith It were behouefull that these dregs of men were cut off and burnt that with their filth they should no longer defile Gods seruice And Aluarus Pelagius ſ De planct l. 2. ar 2 73. 83. writeth of such things done in them as are not meet to be named and I think shal neuer be met with again but in hell or in another cloister 13 I would haue stirred this dunghill no further but that as I was writing these things there came to my hands t Rule of good life a little booke made by a Papist such as our country is full of to seduce the vulgar vnder pretence of exercising them in deuotion wherein teaching his Catholickes how to bring vp their children I must u Cap. 9. pag. 74 saith he tell them often of the Abbeys and the vertue of the old Monks and Friers and Priests and the religious men and women and of the truth and honestie of that time and the iniquitie of ours And therefore accordingly let vs tell our children a little more of this matter and let none tell it but Papists themselues that the children may beleeue them Clemangis a Doctor of Paris that liued 200. years ago when the old time was x De stat eccles pag. 47. inde saith Concerning Monks and Abbeys what can I say that is commendable being so slippery indisciplinated dissolute vnquiet running vp and downe into common and dishonest places hating nothing so much as their cels and cloisters their reading and praying their rule and religion Monks they are in externall habit but in life and works far from their professed perfection This of Monks And touching Friers he saith * pag. 53. They are worse then the Pharises rauening wolues in sheepes clothing who in words pretend the forsaking of the world and in deeds with all possible fraud deceit and lying hunt after it making semblance in outward shew of austeritie chastitie humilitie holy simplicitie but secretly in exquisite delicates and varietie of pleasures going beyond the luxuriousnesse of all worldly men and like Bels priests deuouring the oblations of the people and though not with their wiues yet with their brats filling themselues greedily with wine and good cheare and polluting euery thing with lust whose beate burneth them And of Nuns he saith * pag. 56
in the sence of the Scripture nu 4 7. Digress 10. How a man may be certaine which is the right sence n. 7 8 12. Why many vnderstand not the Scripture Digress 10. and 14. and § 10.1 How the easinesse of the Scripture is proued 8.16 They haue the outward authoritie wherupon our faith is built Digress 11. how we know them to be Gods word Digress 11. and 12. They cōtaine all things needfull 9.1 The Papists say the sence of the Scripture altereth with the time 9.11 Horrible behauiour of the Papists gainst the Scriptures Digress 22. Shrift See Auricular confession Sinne. How God willeth it 40.50 Our vprising from sin is by grace our owne will not disposing thereunto 40.63 The Papists haue no certainty what power the Priest hath in remitting sinne Digress 55. We do not say all that we do is sin Digress 37. Our doctrine touching the sinfulnes cleauing to our good workes maketh not men carelesse 40.25 Sinne mortall and venial an vntrue distinction Digress 38. How the Papists hold it ib. They agree not in it ibid. Succession Wherein true succession standeth 52.1 3. How the Protestants doctrine hath succeeded 52.4 How the father 's insisted vpon succession 53. and 56. It is no note of the Church 54.1 True faith how ioyned with succession and how not 54.2 The Succession of the Romane Church proueth it not the true Church 55 2. The Greekes haue as good succession as the Romanes ibid. The Romish Church hath no true outward succession Digress 53. Such succession as the Papists meane is not needfull 58 2. Supremacy of the Pope against the first antiquitie 35.10 47.6 The Papists agree not in it 35.20 The Popes Supremacy dependeth on a point that can neuer be proued 36.24 The Primitiue Church acknowledged it not Digress 27. Phocas gaue it to Boniface 36.31 When it began ouer Bishops and kings 50.9 T TEmptation may be ouercome without Gods grace as the Papists vntruly say 40.58 Traditions made equall to Scripture 1.3 Yea preferred before it 1.2 In marg k. and 5.8 Translation of the Scripture forbidden by the Church of Rome 1.3 How translations are Gods word it selfe and the rule of faith 5.2 and how our faith relieth on them ibid The Scripture ought to be translated and read of all Digress 5. The Papists disdaine this 5.11 How our English translations may be called erronious and how not 6.2 How we know our English translation to be the infallible word of God 6.3 8. The amending or changing of our translation is no discredit to it 6.6 The Hebrew and Greeke originals are free from error 6.11 Transubstantiation a new doctrine 35.12 and 47.8 The Papists haue no certaintie of it 47.9 Treasury of the Church whence pardon arise not agreed vpon what it should be 40 34. Trent Councell what kind of Councell and the proceeding thereof Digress 20. V VAcancies of the Roman Sea 55.6 Veniall sinne what 40 ●6 Some Papists deny any sinne to be venial num 27. How done away ibid. Visiblenes of the Church See Church Vnitie of the Church wherein it properly consisteth 33.1 The true Church may be without outward vnitie n. 2. It is sōtime grieuously violated in the Church Digress 21. No vnitie in the Romane Church 35.1 Digress 24. What kind of vnitie the Papists haue in their Church 35.2 Vniuersalitie of the Church how to be expounded 44.2 Vniuersalitie of the Romish Church disproued 46.2 Our faith is vniuer●●●l in Time Place and Doctrine 44. Vprising from sinne is by Grace without the disposing of the will thereto 40.63 Vulgar translation of the Bible which the Papists vse canonized by the Trent Councell 6.11 Exceedingly corrupt Digress 7. W WAfers when brought into the Sacrament 50.31 Waldenses and their opinions 50.32 Woman Pope 55.7 Word of God See Scriptures The Papists by Gods word meane Traditions as wel as the writtē word 1.3 Workes See Good works and Merit and Satisfaction The Church of Rome ioyneth our workes with Christs merits iointly to satisfie therewith 40.29 GOod Reader it may fall out that in the margent of this booke specially some faults are escaped in the printing by mistaking or misplacing the figures other parts of the quotation Which is no maruel in quotations of this nature where many figures go together And I my selfe being aboue 100. miles from the presse that I could not helpe it Neuerthelesse I will maintaine the quotation for substance to be true though the Printer may haue mistaken it and learned men that will take so much pains may find that which I intend I doubt not by their owne knowledge of the place if the numbers of the quotation deceiue them I know not whether there be any such defects yet or no● but this I admonish because the Papists if they find an error in the printing of one of our bookes vse to exclame as if an article of our faith were razed out neuer remembring the like casualties of their own It is one thing if I haue wilfully forged or falsified a place and another thing if the Printer onely haue mistaken the quotation The latter may be but the former is not as I will be ready to satisfie any that will charge me with it FINIS