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A02635 A reioindre to M. Iewels replie against the sacrifice of the Masse. In which the doctrine of the answere to the .xvij. article of his Chalenge is defended, and further proued, and al that his replie conteineth against the sacrifice, is clearely confuted, and disproued. By Thomas Harding Doctor of Diuinitie. Harding, Thomas, 1516-1572. 1567 (1567) STC 12761; ESTC S115168 401,516 660

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should be greatly a shamed For had I ben a stubborne and a farre gone heretique as in truth myne errour was humaine neuerthelesse in that case who so euer is amended by iudgement of S. Augustine his estimation thereby is nothing impaired For saith he Maioris ingenij est animosit at is flāmas consirēdo extīguere ● falsitatis nebulas intelligēdo vitare It is a point of more witte to quenche the flames of stourdinesse by confessing errour then to auoide the clowdes of falshod by vnderstāding as much to say by shift of witte to escape He is a Renegate Vvho is a Renegate that forsaketh God and his truth and wilfully departeth from the Churche not he that leaueth errour and commeth vnto Gods truth and reposeth him selfe in the lappe of the Catholik Church I wil not folow you here M. Iewel and by casting durte as it were vppon your coate againe defile my handes If I had desire to prooue the name of a Renegate to apperteine by right vnto you it were soone done Your owne open and vnforced subscription at Oxford to this very Article whereof now I treate and to sundry others which now you impugne● must be an euerlasting testimonie against you The married and vnmarried yonge and olde boyes and Maides and the rest that you recken vp in your long rolle we haue not slaine I tel you once againe as maliciously you charge vs We I meane that are of the Clergie against whom specially you vtter your spite It was the Prince that cōmaunded according to the auncient Lawes of al Christendom iustice to be executed vpon them for that they beside robberies Sacrilege treason rebellion and other heinous crimes cōmitted by the more parte of them not only resisted the truth despised Christian religion contemned the holy Sacramentes and were open blasphemers of God but also did what in their power was stirre others to like wickednes Neither were boyes slaine as you say Iustice was with more equitie and moderatiō executed vpon the blasphemous and traiterous offenders of al sortes then their horrible crimes deserued Among them that suffered death there were no boyes As they were olde in malice so were they not boyes in yeres Bishops and Archbishops you put in your reckening to aggrauate the mater Cranmare the Archebishop of Cantorburie Archebishop there was but one yourselfe doo knowe But ô Lorde what an Archebisshop The See of Cantorbury had neuer any such sithens the English natiō receiued the Faith in S. Gregories time If he had ben either good in life or constant in Faith or true of promise made by solemne Othe to the See Apostolike he had neuer yeelded him selfe to be made an instrument of so many and so great euils but with Bishoply auctoritie grauitie and constancie would haue withdrawen the Prince and his ambitious Ministers frō their vnlawful lustes and wicked attemptes Of this Archebishop ye haue litle cause to crake As for wordly dignities sake once he forsooke his olde Catholique Faith and fel to professe your newe Gospelling Faith So assoone as he had lost his dignities for life to be graunted him he was content to forsake your new faith And in witnesse therof with his owne hand he subscribed to a great number of Billes conteining the confession of the Catholike faith Crāmares subscriptions At length when he sawe that for his desertes he should needes dye for anger he defied Catholique faith Churche and al and like a dogge returned to his vomite so litle grace had the manifolde wickednes of his former life deserued Some were scourged with Roddes Scourgīg vvith roddes an olde punishmēt vsed of Bishops you say Whether this be true or no I know not The same is a meete punishmēt for boyes Neither is it altogether a strange and an vnwount thing a Bishop to vse such manner of correction For S. Augustine in an epistle to a noble man called Marcellinus speaking of scourging with Roddes faith Qui modus coertionis à Magistris artiū liberalium August epist. 159. ab ipsis parentibus saepè etiam in iudicijs solet ab Episcopis haberi that it was a manner of correction vsed of Schoolemasters and Parentes and also oftentimes of Bisshoppes in iudgementes Some you say had burning torches set to their handes We wil beleue it when we vnderstād it was so Some had their tonges cut out of their head If we denie it by what meanes can you prooue it Though the same be cōmonly done in Fraunce towardes heretiques that wil not recant to thintent they be not heard to blaspheme as in Spaine they put a Gagge in their mouthes for the same purpose Cutting out of heretiques tongues an old punishmēt Nicephor lib. 17. c. 2 yet in England it hath not ben vsed And if any had his tongue cut out as you reporte it was not done without example of antiquitie For so did Iustinian the Emperour cut out by the roote the tongue of an heretique named Seuerus Bishop of Antioche Better it were that both tongue and harte were cut out then that God should be blasphemed Some were hanged True it is but remember you wherefore Verily either for thefte or robberie or for murder or for sacriledge or for treason and rebellion VViat Headded Some were beheadded I graunte as Wiate and some others that for Treason had by Lawe deserued that death at the Princes handes But how many thorough great Clemencie escaped with their heades who had loste them if mercie had not tempered the rigour of Iustice But some were burnt to Asshes And that iustly by the auncient Lawes of al Christian Realmes Why might not Queene Mary doo in that case as other Kinges and Princes doo in their Dominions and as your Master Iohn Caluine him selfe did to Seruerus the heretike at Geneua Yea The fable of the woman of Garnsey burnt for heresie vvith a childe in her belly but a poore Innocent Babe falling from the mothers wombe was taken and throwen cruelly into the Fier What if it were denied you that euer any such thing was done Let vs heare how you are hable to prooue it O say you it must needes be true For we finde it so written by M. Iohn Foxe in his great booke of Actes and Monumentes Why Sir dare you so constantly auouche this facte onely vppon the reporte of Foxe As though he had not tolde vs in his false Martyrologe a thousand mo lyes then this I pitie you M. Iewel that craking so muche of antiquitie and appealing continually to the Fathers of the six hundred yeres you are now driuen to stay your credite vppon Foxe who hath into that Huge volume infarced lyes moe in number and notabler for vanitie then euer were raked together into any one heape or booke This fable by report of Foxe vvas founde not certaine but probable Wel if al were false that here you tel then haue you loste a ioily tale Foxe him selfe reporteth when
Commissioners in London vpon a complaint examined the mater that it was founde but probable And probable he meaneth in the iudgement of them who gladly finde fault with al that was done touching the punishment of heresie in Queene Maries reigne Now the thing if any such thing were done at al being so Notorious so openly executed so fewe yeres then past since it was doone so many men yet lyuing that would haue ben present at the examination in case they had bene commaunded the charges of the iourney from Garnesey where it is said to haue bene done to London being borne and could haue brought true witnesse neuerthelesse to be founde but probable I weene it wil not to any wise man appeare very probable How be it let the Fable be a Storie and the same be taken for true Of the vvoman of Garnseis childe fallīg out of her bely into the fire according as Foxe doth describe it to the aduantage and as you M. Iewel report it That in Garnesey three wemen that is the mother and her twoo daughters were burnt and that one of the Daughters was with childe and the childe issued from her wombe being riued with the fier and was consumed together with the fier What of al this In whom was the faulte in the officer that tooke not the childe out of the fier or in the vnnatural mother that brought it into the fier In the Storie there is mention made of a childe and of the mother but of the childes Father there is no woorde spoken It appeareth very credible that the historiographer was a shamed to name the childes Father least so he should haue defaced the glorie of the mothers Martyrdom For I would faine know who was the husband to the daughter M. Fox doth not expresse it But you wil say how so euer the childe was begotten the mother being in that case should haue bene by no Law iustice or reason committed vnto the fier True it is a woman in that case may for once claime the benefite of her belly Mary I haue heard Lawiers say that if whiles she is in prison she play the strompet againe by Lawe the iudge may denie her the benefite of her belly and geue sentence of death vpon her But as for your pratteling parrat Paratine for so was her name as M. Fox registreth her it was not knowen to the Iudge Paratine of Garnesey that she was with childe Had it bene knowen doubtelesse her death had bene differred vntil she had ben brought on bed But the honest woman bicause she would not shame the Gospel keping it priuy from the Magistrates claimed not the benefite of the Lawe and so now not only like an harlot or Heretique but like a Murtherer went desperatly to the fier and murdered bothe her selfe and her childe conceiued within her So farre the Deuil carrieth them whom he possesseth and leadeth at his wil. This abominable facte God by his most iust iudgement reueled to the condemnation bothe of her and of the cause for which she dyed by suffering the childe to fal from her wombe in the sight of al that stoode by Iudge now discrete Reader to whom redoundeth the blame of the crime whether to the Ministers of Iustice who not knowing the thing executed the Lawe or to the woman that for auoiding a worldly shame conceeling her owne turpitude became a murtherer of her owne babe before it came to perfection So that she died gilty of three heinous crimes of heresie lecherie and murther And to these thefte may be added for the fourth For it appeareth by the tale that Foxe him selfe to her best estimation telleth of her that she was a thefe as being accessorie to the honest woman Vincent Gosser that stole a siluer gobblet If the mater were wel examined I doubte not she would be tried an honest woman and a fitte vessel to receiue the glorie of these newe inuented Martyrdomes Here I appeale vnto your owne wisedome M. Iewel Vvhat vvas to be don vvith the dead and demaunde of you what you could or would haue done for that vnperfite and dead childe in that case better then was done Carcasse of Paratines babe If they had taken it out of the fyer what should that haue auailed Life it had none and therfore was it not to be baptized Sense it had none and therfore had it not ben holpen by sauing it from burning As for burial sith it was neither Christened nor come to be perfite man it was aswel burnt and buried in earth yea in some respecte better bicause being burnt with the wicked mother besides the more detestation of the horrible crime to the example of others it was a testimonie against the mothers vnnaturalnes Neither in deede truly to speake was it a poore innocent Babe as to aggrauate the facte more rhetorically then truly you reporte For being a dead thing as it could not be riche or hurtful so neither properly ought it to be called poore or innocent This much considered you haue gotten litle honestie to your Gospel M. Iewel by rehersal of casting this poore innocent Babe into the fyer And the mother your Syster in the Lorde is fownd but a meane Martyr and witnesse of the truth Tybourn Martyrs Of the fruite of such Martyrdome the famous Tree of Tybourne bringeth forth good stoare Iewel The vvorste vvoorde that proceeded from them vvas this O Lord forgeue them They knovve not vvhat they doo O Lorde Iesu receiue my Spirite In the meane vvhile ye stoode by and delited your eies vvith the sight Ye digged vp the poore carkasses of Goddes Sainctes that had beene buried longe before ye serued them solemnely vvith processe and ascited them to appeare at your Consistories and by Publique sentence adiudged them to die the second death and so to the perpetual shame of your cruel folie ye vvreak●e your anger vpon the dead O M. Hardinge● your conscience knovveth these are no lies They are vvriten in the eies and hartes of many thousandes These be the markes of your Religion O vvhat reckeninge vvil you yeelde vvhen so muche innocent Bloud shal be required at your handes And vvhere you say VVee must pulle the Olde Martyrs out of Heauen to place our ovvne for that our Doctrine and theirs as you beare vs in hande is quite contrary al this is but a needeles ostentation of idle vvordes Yf vauntes vvere proufes then vvere this mater fully ended But vve say that in these cases that I haue mooued you are not hable to allege one sufficient Clause or Sentence of your side out of any of al the Olde learned Fathers And hitherto your muster appeareth but very simple notvvithstāding the great promise of your Stoare Harding The pacience of your stincking Martyrs who say you vttered no worse worde then ô Lorde forgeue them ô Lorde Iesu receiue my spirite is by you hyely commended Pacience in an euil cause is no sufficient trial of a true Martyr It
thinges for this is propre to his onely Maiestie For in asmuche as that exceeding greate excellencie hath infinite properties whiche for the infirmitie of our nature we are forced with distincte considerations to conceiue and bicause we are carried vnto God by distincte vertues with distincte affectes and desires whiche folow the apprehensions of our minde that the vertues be not as an vnordered heape confuse in the harte of a iuste man but that eche vertue answere to his propre consideration whereby man is carried vnto God As bicause God is true and faithful therefore we beleeue him bicause he is mighty and liberal therefore we hope in him bicause he is good therefore we loue him whiche three vertues S. Paule setteth forth distinctly writing to the Corinthians to the consideration 1. Cor. 13. by whiche we conceiue him to be verely our Lorde and God from whom as being the Father of Lightes Iacob 1● Religion euery good thing descendeth and in whome as in the last ende we put our highest felicitie properly the vertue of Religion answereth by which we are woont to sacrifice that is to wit to offer vp giftes and presentes in recognition hereof whereby we acknowledge and professe him to be the beginning of our creation and the ende of our blisse to whom al that is ours ought to be referred Therefore the people of Israel were commaunded of God as soone as they should come into the lande of promise to take the first fruites of al manner of corne and to bring them to the Priest and as he laid them vppon the Aulter Deute 26 to say in this wise I professe this day before thy Lorde God that I am entred into the Land whiche our Lorde hath sworne vnto our Fathers that he would geue vnto vs. Our Lorde hath brought vs out of Egypte with his mighty hand and stretched arme c. And therefore now I offer vp the first fruites of the corne of the land that our Lorde hath geuen vnto me Euen so King Dauid said vnto our Lorde 1. Para. 29 after the greate giftes had bene geuen by him and by his Nobles towardes the building of the Temple Al things are thine O Lord and what thinges we haue receiued at thy hande we haue geuen vnto thee And thus we offer giftes vnto our Lorde not for that he hath neede of them or pleasure in them with which mynde the Babylonians offered vnto their Idol Bel Daniel 14 but bicause in the giftes so offered there is a recognition of his Diuine Maiestie and a certaine satisfaction for sinnes that is to say for the temporal paines due vnto sinnes But bicause lyuing vpon the earth and being enuironned with flesh we vse the senses That a visible Safice is most cōuenient for our nature Ioan. 4. and being tied vnto sensible thinges we can not exercise the proper operations of the soule perfitely such a Sacrifice is conuenient for vs as with which visibly we may confesse and honour that Diuine excellencie of Maiestie For although God who is spirite be delited with that wourship which according to the Scripture procedeth of spirite and truth that is to say of right faith working by charitie and although it be a certaine acceptable Sacrifice vnto him when the soule with inwarde mouing doth consecrate it selfe to God yet truth it selfe that is to say right faith requireth also outward wourship for two causes Outward vvourship of God required for tvvo causes The one is bicause the soule maketh not that inward oblation of it selfe conueniently and perfitely excepte it beholde the same in some sensible oblation of a gifte as in a signe and glasse that by this meane it may be moued and stirred vnto that internal Oblation there to rest and stay as when we pray vnto God and praise him we doo it not only with the harte but also with sensible signes not bicause otherwise he vnderstandeth vs not but for that so we stirre and prouoke ourselues the more feruently to pray Rom. 6. and praise him And therefore S. Paule admonisheth vs that we exhibite not only our mynde vnto God but also our members to be armures of righteousnes The other cause is In Asceticis for that as S. Basile saith we haue not onely our soule of God And therefore the wourship that is geuen vnto him by the soule onely God is to be honoured not only with the soule but also vvith the body and vvith outvvard thinges is vnperfite And for so much as we haue receiued the body and al that we haue besides of him it is right that we serue him with the body it selfe and with al things acknwoleging that he is God and Lorde of al thinges to whom al thinges ought to doo seruice In consideration whereof the thirde brother among the seuen Machabees putting forth his tong out of his mouth as he was cōmaunded and holding vp his handes 2. Mach. 7 both to be cut of by the tormentour said with a bolde courage E coelo ista possideo sed propter Deileges nunc haec ipsa despicio From heauen I haue these thinges but nowe for Gods Lawes sake I care not for them And so gladly he offered his tong his handes and al the partes of his body in Sacrifice to God of whom he had receiued them And so the mother of those seuen Machabees The Mother of the Machabees a woman of manly fortitude with free harte offered vp her sonnes vnto God bicause it was he as she said that had created them and brought them into this light how so euer they had ben conceiued in her wombe Therefore she made protestation as before God and said vnto them I know not quod shee how ye appeared in my wombe for it is not I that haue geuen vnto you spirite and soule and life it is not I that haue ioined together the members of eche of you but it is the Creator of the worlde c. As much to say in effecte as this Lord for so much as I haue had these seuen Sonnes of thee for thy sake gladly I geue them and offer them vnto thee Iob. 1. That blessed man Iob likewise tooke the losse of al his goodes paciently and so with free hart offered them to God forasmuch as he acknowledged that he had receiued them at Gods hande 1. Cor. 6. S. Paule also exhorteth that we glorifie Rom. 12. and beare God in our body and that we exhibite our bodies a liuely Sacrifice vnto God Matt. 22. And in that great and first Commaundement in whiche the Lawe and Prophetes do depende we are commaunded to loue God not only with the soule but also ex omnibus viribus with al our powers and strength Luc. 10. And as we sinne against God not by thought onely but with outward workes also and outwarde thinges as it is euident in fornication gluttonie theafte sacrilege and in the like so we be bounde