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A14366 A moste necessary treatise of free wil not onlye against the Bapistes, but also against the Anabaptistes, which in these our daies, go about to renue the detestable heresies of Pelagius, and of the Luciferians, whiche say and affirm, that we be able by our own natural strength to fulfil the law and commaundementes of God. Made dialoge wyse by Iohn Veron, in a manner word by woorde, as he did set it forth in his lectures at Paules. VĂ©ron, John, d. 1563. 1561 (1561) STC 24684; ESTC S101311 58,715 178

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of those two that I named euen now DYDIMVS I beleue that Iosua was not more perfecte than they were PHILALE Mat. iii. Heare then what Ihon Baptist did say vnto our sauiour Iesu Christe when he came vnto him for to be baptised I haue nead to be baptised of thee doste thou come vnto me Sythe then that S. Ihon doth confesse that he had neade to be baptised it was a token that he was infected wyth synne And wherof doth come the same infection of synne but of the transgression of the law We can not deny then but that Ihon was a transgressor of the law and that therfore if theyr opinion be true Iosua was more perfecte than he DyDIMVS I cannot beleue that Iosua was more perfect than Ihō Baptist For it is said of him that amonge all those Mat. xi that be borne of a woman there arose no greater than he was PHILALETHES Ye muste then confesse that Iosua was a sinner if he was a sinner then did he offend against the lawe DIDyMVS I canne not saye against it PHILALETHES Heare also what the blessed Euangelist saint Ihon doth say if we saye i. epi. i. that we haue no sinne we deceaue our selues and the truthe is not in vs. I am sure that Iosua was not more perfect than the blessed Euāgelist Sainte Ihon was who as ye see doth put hym selfe in the number of synners DIDyMVS I would fain learn howe the same that is wrytten of Iosua muste bee vnderstanded For it is sayde plainelye that he lefte none of those thynges vndone that Moses commaunded him PHILALETHES Ye muste marke How that whiche was saied of Iosua ought to be vnderstanded that the same place muste bee vnderstanded of the Commaundementes that Moses dyd geue vnto Iosua touchynge the gouernment of the people and also touchinge the brynginge of the children of Israell into the land of Canaam and not of the moral law that is wrytten in the two tables of stone For the same lawe was not geuen particularlye vnto Iosua but vnto all the people in general That same place thē must be vnderstanded of the commaundementes that Moses did geue vnto Iosua concerning the gouernement and guidinge of the people whyche he dyd fulfyl to the vttermoste DyDIMVS And what saye ye of zacharie the father of Ihon Baptist Luc. i. and of hys mother For it is wrytten of them that they were both ryghteous before God that they walked in all the commaundements and statutes of the Lord vnreprouable PHILA What say ye neighbor Dydimus was not zacharie a priest which did execute his offyce before God when his curse came accordynge to the custome of the priesthode DIDyMVS Yes verely PHILALETHES Then was he a synner and was fayne to offer sacrifyce fyrste for hys owne synnes Heb. vii and then for the synnes of the people For thus it is wrytten It became vs to haue suche an hie priest as is holy innocent vndefiled separated from synners made higher then heauen whiche neadeth not daily as yonder high priestes to offer vp sacrifyce fyrste for hys owne sinnes and then for the synnes of the people For that did he once for all when he offered vp hym selfe Here haue we a notable difference betwixt Christ our souerain priest and the hyghe priestes of the law Fyrst and fore most the high priestes of the lawe were fain to offer sacrifyces often because that the sacrifices that they offered continually euerye yeare coulde not make them that came there vnto perfecte But Christe wyth one only sacrifyce Heb. x. dyd make them perfect for euer that are sāctified Again the highe priestes of the law were fayne to offer sacryfices Fyrst for theyr own sinnes and then for the synnes of the people For thus sayde Moses vnto Aaron Leui. xvi goe vnto the aultare and offer thy synne offrynge and thy burnt offrynge and make an attonement for thee and for the people Then offer the peoples offringe and reconcile them also as the Lord hath commaunded But our sauiour Iesus Christe who is oure soueraigne and euerlastynge priest is holye innocente vndefyled separated from sinners andmade higher then heauen so that he neaded not to offer for his own sinnes as the priestes of the olde law did i. epi. ii For why he neuer committed sinne nor gile was founde in his mouthe I am sure that ye will not saye that Zachary Ihon Baptistes father was such a one DYDIMVS I wil not say so For there is no man that synneth not i. king viii Rom. iii. Againe All men haue synned and lacke the praise that is of valewe before God Moreouer we do rede that zachari was punished because that he doubted of the promyse of God Luc. i. which was reueled vnto him by the aungell PHILALE Ye maye perceyue then that he was called righteous not because that he hadde fulfylled the lawe wyth suche a perfectyon as GOD dothe requyre of vs Why zachary was called righteous but because that by the meare mercye and goodnesse of almightye GOD taken holde vppon by faythe hys synnes were not imputed vnto hym but was compted ryghteous before GOD Rom. iiii as Abraham was vnto whome hys faythe was imputed for ryghteousnesse And of this faithe did it come that both he and his wife Elizabeth did endeuour them selues to walke so vprightly in the commaundemēts and statutes of the Lorde that no manne shoulde be able to reproue them or to lay any thing to theyr charge In the meane whyle they cried bothe vnto God and sayde Enter not into iudgemente wyth thy seruauntes Psal cxlii O Lorde for in thy syghte no manne shall be iustifyed DYDIMVS iiii kings xxiii Obiectiō Hee dyd also brynge in the example of Iosias of whome it is wrytten after thys manner There was no kynge before lyke vnto hym whych so conuerted vnto the Lord wythall hys harte wythall hys soule and with all his strength according to all the law of Moses PHILA Aunswer I wyll haue none other but the words that ye haue aleadged for to proue that Iosias was a transgressoure of the lawe For it is writen of him that there was no kynge before which so conuerted or tourned him selfe vnto the Lord as he did But how coulde he conuert or returne vnto the Lord except he had gon away from hym And we go awaye from God throughe or by synne whiche is a playne transgression or breakinge of the lawe Therefore Iosias was a transgressour of the law DIDYMVS Yet it is written of him that there was not hys lyke that did so conuert vnto the Lorde wyth all his harte accordynge to all the lawe PHILALE It foloweth not therfore because it is sayed that Iosias obserued and kept the law more diligentely than al the other kings that he did kepe it perfectlye For neither he How that whiche is spoken of Iosias ought to be taken nor any other
infyrmitye and weakenesse ▪ For if Moses had spoken there of the bare commaundementes onlye he shoulde haue puft vp the people with a most hurtfull and pernitious confydence wherby they must nedes to haue caste them selues headlonge in to vtter destruction if they had attempted to obserue and kepe the lawe by theyr owne strengthe For when they hadde felt them selues vnable to doo it woulde they not haue taken to playne desperation if they hadde knowen none other waye or meane for to obtayne saluation and to escape death but by the perfecte kepinge of the lawe Sainte Paul then hauing then a perfect vnderstanding of this place doth applye it altogether vnto the doctrine of fayth For hauinge spoken of the righteousnesse that cometh by the lawe and how that they that obserue and kepe the commaundementes shal lyue by them he doth adde immediatelye these wordes But the righteousnesse that cometh of faith speaketh on this wyse Rom. x. Saye not in thy hearte Who shall ascende in to heauen For that were to fetch Christ downe Or who shall go down in to the depe For that wer to fetch vp Christ from death But what sayethe the scripture The worde is nyghe thee euen in thy mouth and in thy hearte This is the worde of fayth which we preache If thou shalt confesse or knowledge wyth thy mouth that Iesus is the Lorde and shalt beleue wyth thy hart that God raysed him vp from death thou shalt be safe For the belyef of the heart iustifyeth and the confession of the mouth maketh man safe Who would requyre a more sounde exposition of Moses wordes than this is ALBION This exposition can in no wyse mislyke me syth that it cometh from the same selfe spirit that Moses did writ by Nowe therefore come to the sayinges of Christ and of Iohn the euangelist PHILALE Such sayinges are moste true as it dothe appeare by that How the sayinges of Christ and Iohn the euāgelist ought to be vnderstāded which hath ben sayed before For the cōmaundements of god of them selues are easy and if there be any dyfficultye or hardnesse in them it cometh not of the nature and propertye of the commaundementes of God but of the corruption of manne Heare what Saint Paule sayethe what so euer the lawe coulde not fulfyll Ro. viii in as much as it was weake because of the flesh that same did God perfourme sendinge his sonne in the similitude of synneful flesh and by synne damned sinne Two thinges to be learned in Pauls sayinge Two things do we learne in thys saying of the Apostle Fyrste that it commeth not of the law that menne are not able to fulfil it but of the imbecility and weaknesse of the flesh The lawe then and the commaundementes be easy and if ther be any difficultye or hardnesse in the fulfilling of them it commeth of our naughty and corrupted nature Secondly we do learn that God dothe by his sonne Iesu Christe supply the same that by reason of the weakenesse of our flesh we be not able to fulfyl Again the commaundements of god are easy and lyght vnto hym that is graffed in Christ and that hathe fellowshyp wyth him For those thyngs that afore were harde vnto manne are made easy vnto him bi faith wher by he is graffed in Christ as saint Paule doth testify saying I am able to do all thinges through him that doth comforte me And so the saying of S. Augustin shal be true where he sayth I can not thincke that God hath commaunded anye thing that is impossible Phi. iiii Elsse S. Augustine doth graunte in many other places that God hathe commaunded thinges that it is impossible for man to fulfyll as in the boke of the spirit and of the letter and in his thyrde treatyse vppon Ihon. And so ought al to be vnderstanded How Chrisostō and Ierome ought to be vnderstanded that they aleadge bothe oute of Chrisostome of Ierome that is to saye that the commaundementes of God were easye to kepe For the faithful man is perswaded dothe beleue that whatsoeuer is wanting or lackynge in him the same is supplied by christ with whome he hath felowshyppe through faith Whyche working through chariti loue causeth the commaundements of god to be easy vnto the inner man whyche is borne of newe or which is renued by the holy ghost God hauynge a chief respect vnto the wyll and desire that such a man hath to kepe them actually if it dyd lye in hys power and wherby he doth endeuor him self daily to fulfill them For it is the duety of him that is renued What is the duety of him that is renewed to study daily and hourly to kepe the commaundementes of god though he be not able by him self and of hys owne strength to attain to the perfect keping of thē For we must not because that we are not able to kepe the law of god as it ought to be kept be slack therfore to do that whiche lieth in vs beinge sure that oure obedience though it be vnperfect shal be accepted before God as longe as we be true members of hys sonne Iesu Christe Why the auncient fathers spake as they did For thys cause did the auncyent doctours speake as they dyd that so they myght take away from men the vaine excuses whiche they be wont to make because of the impossibility of the law DIDyMVS The foolishe and found obiection of the enemies I was once in a place where I hard a stout champion of the Romish church say that there haue bene not one nor two but many that dyd besydes Christ fulfyll the law of God wyth a moste consummate perfection as Iosua and zacharie Ihons father saying that this is wrytten of Iosua As the Lorde commaunded hys seruaunte Moses and as Moses commaunded Iosua Iosu xi euen so did Iosua so that there was nothing vndone at al of those things that god commaunded Moses PHILALETHES I aske you whether was Iosua a man that was conceiued after the common sort of other men or not DIDyMVS I beleue that he was a man and that he was conceiued betwixt man and woman as other men are PHILALETHES Ye beleue wel for it is so in dede We muste then confesse and graunt that Iosua did go a stray from the law of God that he was a lyer and that he was filled wyth manye myseryes For it is sayd of all menne Ro. iii. that be borne of man and woman that they haue all gone oute of the waye that they be also al lyers Psal cxvi howe dare then youre bragginge marchauntes be so bold to affirm that Iosua hath kept the hole law of God For these be two contrary things to be a lyer and to haue kept the law of God perfectlye Againe I woulde fayne knowe of you whether Ihon Baptyste or Ihon the Euangelist was not as perfect as Iosua Or whether Iosua was more perfecte than anye