Selected quad for the lemma: woman_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
woman_n	adam_n	deceive_v	transgression_n	2,011	5	10.9498	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A66584	Quaker's false interpretations of Holy Scripture By Thomas Wilson rector of Arrow in Warwick-shire.	Wilson, Thomas, 17th cent.	1678 (1678)	Wing W2935; ESTC R222279	83,988	180

over the Man 6 Such as were in the Transgression as the first Woman was 7 Such as Transgress the Law and are not come to be under Grace So a seven-fold sort of Women are not permitted by Paul to speak in the Church Well then the literal sense is granted and we need not your condescention in admitting it For unlearned tatling unruly Women are real Women and their speaking is real speaking And then I require you to shew and not barely to say it that St. Paul means by Women the flesh and fallen reason not that you may so use his words but that this is his mind for to expound as you do here is to give the sense intended If yet notwithstanding your words you do not grant the literal sense then you have done vainly in giving us divers sorts of real Women and your whole discourse following in your Book which proceeds of these is idle But I must take it for granted that real Women are meant and now my task must be to consider whether the Apostle so speaks as that we may see he doth not forbid all sorts of Women to speak in the Church The Context of both places which you say will clear that he doth not shall be represented 1 Cor. 14. 34 35. But let your Women keep silence in the Churches for it is not permitted to them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the Law And if they will learn any thing let them ask their Husbands at home for it is a shame for Women to speak in the Church This is all he speaks in this place And where is the distinction he makes telling us these may these may not speak in the Church or what is that which intimates so much But observe your women means not this all sorts And They are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the Law Are not good as well as bad to be under obedience And said not the Law so to all Gen. 3. 16 Again It is a shame for them to speak in the Church Why so but because this is to Usurp Authority Which to do is a shame to the best as well as worst And know you that the Apostle discourses throughout the Chapter of such persons as had gifts of the Holy Ghost and upon that account are called spiritual v. 1. 12 15 16 37. See c. 3. 1. 12. 1. Gal. 6. 1. So that these Women as well as others must keep silence in the Church The other place 1 Tim. 2. runs thus v. 9. c. I will that women adorn themselves in modest apparel with shamefacedness and sobriety not with braidered hair but as becometh women professing godliness with good works Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection Is this to say Women that adorn not themselves in modest apparel with shamefacedness nor good works must learn in silence Or is it not to say Women must adorn themselves so and they must learn in silence If this be not the sense I despair of ever understanding plain words And then as all Women must so adorn themselves so must all learn in silence even they that are so adorned as the Text plainly shews For say if you dare such are not to learn in silence with subjection It follows But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to Usurp Authority over the Man but to be in silence Not a Woman this is as universal as can be spoken and cannot signify a vain foolish proud Woman only For then it would follow such as are not so may Usurp Authority over the Men. And then the better Women are the worse will Mens condition be if to be usurped over signify ill to them as I think all men will grant though perhaps some Women will not And note this Woman-teaching is either the same or else such ano ther thing as usurping authority over the Man which to all right minds signifies bad enough It follows For Adam was first formed then Eve Speaks this to idle Women only It speaks to all the Sex telling them that Man was designed of God to be the Superior in that he was first created and the Woman after him and out of him and for his use Such another universal reason follows And Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the Transgression How good and wise soever Women are the consideration that all sin and misery first came upon us by their Sex should keep them in subjection Now when the Apostle says I suffer not a woman to Teach nor to Usurp Authority over the Man whether his mind be as you say it is that such Women may not Teach as usurp Authority or whether it be not as his very words are Women none of them may Teach nor usurp Authority I leave to the Reader to judge And so when he subjoins For Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the Transgression whether it be not a reason why no Woman whatever should Teach or usurp Authority over the Man or whether as you say his meaning is that such as are in the Transgression as Eve was must not Teach or usurp Authority over the Man let the Reader also judge Thus I have shewed both that real Women in the literal sense are meant and all sorts of them But yet you say p. 22. What if Paul had said concerning all Women at Corinth and Ephesus that he did not permit them to spake will it therefore follow that Women are not to spake in any case in the Church They might at that time being but young not have the requisite qualifications 1 He forbids not any sort of speaking but Teaching and any such speaking which signifies usurping Authority over the Man and is contrary to the Womans subjection as his words sufficiently express 2 Since the Church of Corinth was enriched in all spiritual gifts 1 Cor 1. 5. 7. Chap. 12. Chap. 14. it is not probable that none of the Women were partakers of the same and sufficiently qualified as the Men were 3 There is not the least intimation of any such thing as their imperfect qualifications and that this was the reason of the Apostles prohibition but his Arguments as hath been shewed are all of an universal nature and his prohibition absolute To conclude As you say Hear Bernard so say I hear Tertullian Do Veland Virg. Chap. 9. Non permittitur Mulicri c. It is not permitted a Woman to Speak in the Church nor to Teach nor to Baptise nor to Offer nor to do any of the Mans Office much less to exercise the Priestly function And how can that be lawful to a Virgin which is not lawful to any Woman Advers Har. Chap 41. The Heretical Women are so malepert that they dare to Teach to Contend to Exorcise to undertake cures and perhaps to Baptise Women-Preach p. 15. They have scraped out of many old Authors They have stolen the words of God

10. 22. Ye shall be hated of all men Yet vers 40. He that receiveth you Again Chap. 3. 5. 6. All Jerusalem and Judea went out and were Baptised of John Yet Luk. 7. 30. The Pharisees were not Baptised of him See Luk. 2. 1. 3. Act. 24. 5. and 2. 47. Eph. 5. 24. Ph. 2. 21. But indeed told he her inwardly of every word she had spoken and of every thought she had conceived every step she had taken every scrat she had given her Head every bit of Bread she had eaten every sigh prayer bargain cough breath spitting that she was concerned in from her youth to that present time Did he bring all these before her To what purpose should it be I can sooner believe that a Saint or Angel especially in Heaven can hear all the Papists that call upon him at once throughout the world And from hence let them fetch a proof for their Doctrine and Practice in that particular for ever after which I believe they never dreamed on before and do you Quakers answer them I believe choose you whether you will or not that if after this discourse one had asked this Woman of an hundred things which she had done yes of an hundred sins which she had committed in thought word and deed she would have been found as ignorant of them as you are and that not only as you may say because they presently after their appearance vanished away again but because they never appeared at all Ibid. p. 17. 18 19. But say the Preachers of the Man-made Ministry Women ought not to Preach because the Apostle expresly saith But I suffer not a Woman to Teach nor c. 1 Tim. 2. 12. What if I should understand by the Woman in this place the flesh as Bernard doth Let them leave off their insolent words against Quakers as if they understood the Scriptures all contrary to the mind of the Ancient Fathers Some going about to represent it as a ridiculous Exposition to expound the Woman the Flesh I give them this advice Let them hear Bernard If I should so far condescend to them as to take the words of Paul for Women in the common sense of speech what would they gain by it Forster's Guid. Pref. Thou hast lost thy state of happiness by hearkening to the Woman thy fallen reason who is not to speak in the Church For my part I was in some doubt whether you did thus expound the Text when I read the charge in your Adversaries Books conceiting you might only make an Allegory or allusion But now I see it is granted to be your downright exposition and to take Woman literally is a condescension to us But we need not your favour for from the Apostles words we shall extort it from you Which are these v. 8. c. I will that men pray every where lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting In like manner also that Women adorn themselves in modest Apparel with shamefacedness and sobriety not with broidered hair or Gold or Pearls or costly aray but as becometh Women professing godliness with good works Let the Woman learn in silence with all subjection But I suffer not a Woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the Man but to be in silence For Adam was first formed then Eve For 1 as men here are real men and what is spoken of them ought to be taken in the literal sense so are Women here real Women and what is spoken of them ought so likewise to be taken there being not the least expressed that signifies the contrary Women adorning themselves with Apparel Women professing Godliness signifies as much literally as Men Praying Men lifting up hands without wrath doth And therefore so doth the Womans learning in silence the Womans not Teaching not Usurping Authority over the Man the plural Number being only changed into the singular which singular also hath a plural signification as is usual and as you find again v. 15. and as is evident from the parallel place where the plural is expressed 1 Cor. 14. 34. Let your Women keep silence in the Churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the Law and if they will learn any thing let them ask their Husbands at home for it is a shame for Women to speak in the Church Where observe lest you should still resist the Women are such as have Husbands and those at home and that as distinct from the Church viz. in their several houses and unto real Women in the literal sense did the Law speak commanding them to be under obedience even as of real Women in the literal sense it spake in the same place of their bringing forth children in Sorrow Gen. 3. 16. Such therefore and in the literal sense are here to be understood and therefore such in the same sense in our present Text it being altogether the same with this 2 Men and Women are here distinguished the different Sexes Male and Female are spoken of such as Adam and Eve were For the Apostle shews distinctly what the one should do and what the other Whereas according to your sense no such distinction ought to be understood for that flesh or fallen reason belongs to the Male as well as Female So that if that be as you say it is the meaning of Woman then the Male as well as Female is prohibited to teach and usurp authority And so one of you speaks Parker's Testimony p. 30. Christ is one in the Female as well as Male and where he Rules he may and ought to speak and this is according to Scripture But let the Woman be silent According to this Author the Man as well as the Woman is flesh and fallen reason for that it may be likewise said Let the Man be silent let Christ only speak Thus the Woman is become the Man which is contrary to the Apostles discourse which makes an absolute difference 3 You make the Apostle say thus I suffer not the flesh and fallen reason to teach and usurp Authority over the man for Adam was first formed then Eve Which is incongruous and therefore not the Apostles mind Thus having shewed the true sense to be the literal I tell you now as you ask what we shall gain by it viz. That you have false interpreted and a greater thing than that your suffering Women to Teach is contrary to the Apostles Doctrine who says I suffer them not But you will reply not so however For thus says G. K. Ibid. p. 21. What sort of Women is it that Paul doth not permit to speak in the Church 1 Cor. 14. 1 Tim. 2 Let us look into the Context of both places and that will clear it For they are 1 Unlearned 2 Tatling 3 Unruly proud Women All which is implied in these words Let the Woman learn in Silence with all Subjection 4 Vain given to gaudy Apparel 5 Such as Usurped Authority