Selected quad for the lemma: water_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
water_n	body_n	earth_n	element_n	7,308	5	10.1853	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A77749	Doctor Chamberlain visited with a bunch of his own grapes, gathered out of his own packet of letters: to know whether my answer to his question gave satisfaction, and that by his reply to partake of those rare gifts of the spirit, which he proffered to publish in Black-fryers Church. Also an answer to Dr Chamberlains reply, concerning sprinkling the baptized. / By Thomas Bakewel.	Bakewell, Thomas, b. 1618 or 19.	1650 (1650)	Wing B532; Thomason E601_4; ESTC R206402	21,189	30

it and therefore you fall to your prayer for me but your prayer is to pervert me and my prayer shall be That God would be pleased to convince you of your error I come to the seventh Argument wherein I have shewed you the mistake of the word baptize with water not in water Mat. 3.11 Joh. 1.33 Ephes 5.26 Heb. 10.22 yea to read in water when it is said with water is as great an error as to bow at the Name of Jesus in stead of in the Name of Jesus for mark the Scriptures wel Paul saith When thou commest bring my cloke with thee not in thee 2 Tim. 3.16 Abraham said to the young men Abide here with the Asse Gen. 22.5 not in the Asse so baptize with water not in the water So on the other side Levi payd tythes in Abraham not with Abraham He was in the loynes of his father when Melchizedec met him Heb 7.9 10. not with his loynes when Melchizedec met him and Christ saith You beleeve in God beleeve also in me Joh. 14.1 not beleeve with God and beleeve with mee and so to baptize in the Name of Father Son and Holy Ghost not baptize with the Father Son and Holy Ghost Christ never gave such power to men John saith Hee that is Christ baptizeth with the Holy Ghost So where it is said Sprinkle the door posts with the blood not take the door posts and plunge them in blood To this you say that I affirme another untruth for want of the knowledg of the Tongues owning the errour of the Translator where John is made to say I baptize with water and you bid mee aske my Teachers who know the Tongues and they will tell me that the Greek word signifieth in water and not with water yea you will shew me two Texts for it Ephes 5.26 and Heb. 10.22 with the washing of water in the Word but this is counterfeit coyn by my touchstone I must search the Scripture and see whether these things be so as the noble Bereans did Act. 17.11 I must take nothing upon trust without tryal and by my tryal I finde it thus that he might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word Eph. 5.26 not in the Word And the other Text is with pure water Heb. 10.22 not in pure water Then you say it were well if those errors which are caused for want of more exact Translation were taken away by a new Translation and till you are able to bee an Interpreter it is good to be sober in making your own conclusion upon matters of Interpretation but yeeld to those that are better able To this I shall submit but I doubt you will not do so your self if you did you would never turne preacher nor gather a Church out of a Church like sheepstealers to make up your own flock and think your selfe worthy of a better Calling then God hath appointed for you certainly the end of such will be miserable I come to the eighth Argument Anabaptists who plead for plunging condemne themselves by their own practice while they suffer the baptized to wade in half way or to the middle without their Teachers help and then they plunge in the other half Now either they must acknowledge that the party doth and may baptize half himself or else grant that the lower half was not at all baptizd for their Minister did not put that under water but our Minister holding the water over the baptized doth put the baptized under water To this you are most troubled at the word Anabaptist and would have me to understand better what that word meanes before I undertake to condemne any under that notion And you say when I understand the true signification of Baptisme then I will not exact brick and allow no straw nor bid a man cut meat without a knife nor expect that men should be baptized and not suffer them to come into the water Sir if I keep sentinel shew me your warrant from Jesus Christ for your going into the water or you passe not here for wee have many now adayes that runne from their Rulers upon designes of their own and it may be you are one of them I may not let you passe into the water neither is it meat that I keep from you but poyson neither doe I exact any more from you then I allow you power and meanes to doe use those fewe drops according to the custom of all Christian Churches and it is sufficient and he that shall advise you further tell him we have no such custom nor any of the Churches of God although some will be contentious 1 Cor. 11.16 Then you compare sprinkling with Hocus Pocus and call it ridiculous but without proof and that our Ministers would not plead that as an Argument when as you see your reverend friend Mr Downame to own it therefore I passe by these also as counterfeit coyn And so I come to the last Argument shewing That sprinkling one part is sufficient because one drop is as truly water as the whole Ocean Sea and that no measure is prescribed onely it must be water and the baptized may be under one drop as well as under a tun yet not as if there were any necessity to be under it onely it must be applyed to the body that our Faith may act upon the thing signified by it But here you demand For what is one drop sufficient to feed Whales to bear great ships or to water the earth Ans One drop is sufficient to shew unto us that it is water yea that Element which Christ did appoint for the outward Form of Baptism when set apart and consecrated for that use by prayer and it is our worke to observe the properties of water and compare them with the thing signified thus As water cooleth the heate quencheth thirst cleanseth away filth maketh the Earth fruitful by watering of it so the Spirit of Christ cooleth satisfieth cleanseth softeneth maketh us fruitful in good workes But Sir if you will have that water into which you will bee planged to doe all this it were good you would plunge your Disciples in the Ocean Sea for it cannot bee that a River or Pond which some plunge in should water the Earth c. But you think to carry all away with Sophistry thus As one drop of water is water therefore one part of the body is the body and a hand is a foot I am ashamed of your Logique yea you deserve to be cast out of the Colledg for a Novice But you go on If one drop be sufficient to shew that it is water as well it is sufficient to make dowe But are these your rare gifts which should have beene published in Blacke-fryers Church Surely you would have been hissed out with shame enough and you are much bound to them that prevented it But you say John was in Aenon baptizing because there was much water there Hence it seemes you would infer that

these are falsly spoken of me although your selfe and other Lay-men amongst Anabaptists frequently do them But cavilling Anabaptists have alwayes something to say against those that are truly orthodox If our learned Ministers write any Tract then they say they have nothing but Humane Learning they have not the Spirit and if any illiterate man shall write against them then he wants Learning but if for them then say you in your first Letter God gives poor Fishermen the Spirit which he doth not to learned Clarks Then you would make the world beleeve that you are of a very humble spirit and you deserve not the title of Tyrus But Pride breakes out and spoiles all saying that which you falsely charged me withall That our Ministers durst not answer you there was none so bold yet still you would have me bear the name and keep the vice your selfe saying I presume to answer for Doctor Gouge supposing my selfe the abler man which will not follow although it may be more willing because it is like he knows the temper of your spirit better then I. Then you say that I except against you for asking Dr Gouge a question because he is ancient when as multitude of years should teach wisdom Iob 32.7 and of whom should we enquire but of them that take upon them the Office should not the Priests lips keep Knowledg Mal. 2.7 But here like Corah you say he takes the Office upon him but beware of Corahs Judgment See Numb 16.3.35.40 You charge him but condemne your selfe doing the same thing But why did not you come to learn at his mouth which is your duty from that Text Mal. 2.7 Neither do I except against asking the Doctor a question because he is ancient but because you more required his Pulpit then his Answer to make division rather then to seeke for satisfaction Neither is it fit I say that ancient Ministers should be dayly troubled with all the vain queries that Anabaptists may put unto them But then you are troubled that I should not give you leave to state your own question which was so stated that the answering of it as it was would start up more questions which would be endlesse Therefore it was my desire to confine the question onely to Sprinkling the Baptized and leave Infants for another question at this you cavil asking Whether they must first be baptized and then sprinkled which shews of what spirit you are as if I should say Such a man hath married a wife for which you should accuse me for saying he marryed her that was a wife at that time to another man Then you say That Doctor Gouge doth acknowledge That Sprinkling and Baptizing Infants is but a Tradition of the Church I question the truth of it But I say they are such Traditions of the Church as that they are not mans Inventions nor by man to be abolished Then you come to my first Argument in these words The Lord foretold that in the times of the Gospel his People should be sprinkled with clean water Ezek. 36.25 To this you propound many queries thus Whether Sprinkling here be meant Baptisme or by cleane water the elementary water and you bee meant Infants and the time then be meant the time of the Gospel with the Gentiles or the time of the glorious Calling of the Jews or whether Sprinkling doe not allude to that Sprinkling under the Law they not knowing Johns nor Christs Baptism and whether pure water be not meant the Holy Ghost in the language of Christ To this I answer Let them be Iewes or Gentiles in respect of Country bond or free male or female Infants or of full age all in the Christian Church have right to Baptisme Neither can this Text look back to the Jewish Sprinklings under the Law because it is a Prophecy or Promise to come hereafter neither can this be meant of the Essence of the Holy Ghost to be sprinkled which is uncommunicable and for the graces or operations of the Holy Ghost promised to be bestowed in the latter dayes they are no where promised to be by sprinkling a few drops But saith the Lord it shall come to passe that I will poure out my Spirit Ioel 2.28 I will poure water upon him that is thirsty and floods upon the dry ground I will poure my Spirit upon thy seed and my blessing upon thy off-spring Isa 44.3 Now see the Apostles Exposition of these Texts It shall come to pass saith God that I will pour out my spirit Act. 2.17 And saith Christ himself Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water but this spake he of the Spirit Ioh. 7.38 39. Neither is it likely that the Promise of Grace in the fulnesse of Christs Kingdome should be no more but a few drops sprinkled which they had when these Promises were made so that it remaines that this Sprinkling here fore-told to be with clean water is the Elementary water sprinkled upon the Baptized as the outward form which may signifie all that abundance of grace promised to be then bestowed upon the Christian Church And Mr Doctor these things I am confident shall be accomplished although you taxe me with Lay-ignorance and to be talketive and you beleeve that these mistakes will make them to keep the staff in their own hands and not to suffer such though never so zealous and devout to betray their cause To this I know not whom you mean but God forbid that for any private cause any Power on Earth should suppresse the Truth although they have the staff of power in their hand But then you conclude All that can be said upon this place is onely a Promise what God will do and not a Command what man must do Ans It may be the outward form of Baptism by sprinkling of water for all that for God may do it by Instruments The Pharisees heard that Jesus made and baptized more Disciples then Iohn though Jesus himself baptized not but his Disciples Ioh. 4.1 2. And they came to Iohn saying He that was with thee beyond Iordan baptizeth Ioh. 3.26 but not himself But admit it was Christ himself that baptizeth yet it is with the Holy Ghost when Iohn baptizeth with water Mat. 3.11 Thus Christ makes the outward Forme by Sprinkling effectual by sanctifying and cleansing his Church with the washing of water by the Word Eph. 5.26 And thus Christ when he washed his Disciples feet washed and cleansed their Souls from sin or else they had had no part with him Ioh. 13.8 and yet not without that outward Form But then you are troubled that I should say That water in the Sacrament signifies the Blood of Christ saying Where doth the Scripture say so But I say if you take away the thing signified from the Element you destroy the Sacrament much like the Papist who will have the Element of Bread turned into the very Body of Christ But in so doing you spoile the Ordinance as well by plunging

as sprinkling and yet at the end of this Section you confesse That sprinkling the Conscience with the blood of Christ and washing the body with water from the same Text that I quote Heb. 10.22 comprehends the two compleat parts of baptism and yet you would drown the sence by the Iewish washings saying They had sprinkling with water Lev. 14.7 Num. 8.7 distinct from sprinkling with blood Exod. 12.22.29.21 and both distinct from baths and washings Levit. 15.5 to 27. in divers other places And we have under the Gospel Baptism distinct from the Lords Supper and the Holy Ghost is punctual Ioh. 19.34 But that text onely proves that Christ is our Sanctification and Justification signified by that water and blood see other Texts parallel 1 Ioh. 5.6 This is he that came by water and blood to be Righteousnesse Sanctification and Redemption 1 Cor. 1.30 but not punctual to distinguish the two Sacraments for one of them to Justifie and the other to Sanctifie and least of all punctual to distinguish the outward Formes of the two Sacraments for suppose you say here is water the outward Forme of Baptisme yet Mr Doctor here is no bread and wine the Forme of the other Sacrament Then you say If the Iewes had confounded the sprinkling of water with that of blood they would have been negligent in those things they were to be exact and if we should do so we should soon arrive at spiritual Babel which is rife with many who think themselves spiritual But Mr Doctor our difference is betweene sprinkling and plunging and we shall distinguish the two Sacraments as well as you And you confesse that the Jewes did keep them distinct that of water and that of blood although both were administred by sprinkling How much easier is it for us to distinguish between drinking wine and sprinkling with water at our two Sacraments and yet although the outward parts of the Sacraments differ yet thethings signified do not so differ for saith Mr Perkins on Galat pag. 214. line 32. Water resembleth Christ crucified with all his merits The blood of Christ cleanseth from all sin 1 Ioh. 1.7 And also faith he The water resembleth the inward washing by the Spirit and both by Iustification and Sanctification 1 Cor. 6.11 Tit. 3.5 and other signes as death and burial of sin and resurrection to newnesse of life And this is all that can be gathered both from the Jewish and Christian Sacramental washings and cleansings under the Law and under the Gospel which doth not at all take away sprinkling the baptized but rather confirmes it to be of God and not of man Also you have confessed That the outward Forme and the thing signified should go together from many Texts Matt. 3.11 Mark 1. Luke 3. Act. 1.5 2.58 10. Yea God will not do the one without the other the outward washing and the inward sanctification ought to goe together not the outward washing alone but the inward answer of a good Conscience towards God through Iesus Christ 1 Pet. 3.21 And yet I smell a designe you have in those expressions drawn from that Text Mat. 3.7 The Pharisees and Sadduces without fruits of Repentance were not admitted to the Baptisme of water Hence it may be you will gather That fruites must appeare on all before they shall have the outward Forme of Baptisme that you may exclude Infants it is true these Sectaries Iohn refused as unworthy of admittance till Reformation but all other that were willing were admited And besides the case of Infants whose Parents are admited is not the same with those that are converted from Judaisme or Heathenisme to the Christian Faith the Parents and their seed are set apart for holy uses as members of the visible Church although they want real infused Holiness they have a right to the Ordinances yea if but one of the Parents be admitted the children are holy faith Paul 1 Cor. 7.14 But this point hath beene so sufficiently cleared by others that I shall wave it You come to my second Argument The signe must be visible to put us in minde of the thing signified The token of the Covenant shall be seene Gen. 9.11 14. The People being sprinkled must behold the blood of the Covenant Exod. 24.8 The senses must bee exercised Hebr. 5.14 but hee that is plunged under water can neither hear the words of institution nor see the signe therefore unfit to use that Ordinance To this you say Sprinkling is but lately allowed of by the Directory but not by the booke of Common Prayer But what of that Doth antiquity of error make it ever the better But you ask whether by our Rule wee doe not make a face Christian yea a speckled faced Christian by sprinkling here and there a drop as if the water in Baptism were of a staining and not of a cleansing nature moreover saith he if we allow Baptism to signifie the washing away of sin as all Catechisms imply would you wash the face and outward appearance of sinne and so make an outside Pharisee-Christian But I say would you have the Elementary water go any further then the outside you that plunge all over yet all is but the outside and the more of outside in any duty the more you are Pharisee-like and that the outward Forme of Baptisme by water signifies the cleansing from sinne I grant but yet one drop applyed to the body in that Ordinance may signifie the greatest cleansing from sinne and if you stand so much upon your measure of water in this Ordinance let mee in your next knowe your quantity and by what measure you try the fulnesse of that quantity or else I shall suspect that you hold him most worthy to come to the Lords Table that will drinke most wine as well as to hold hee is best baptized that is plunged in most water The mean time I shall hold a drop on the face may signifie more grace in the Soul then ever any Anabaptists attained unto Again Circumcision on one part signified mortification of sinn in all parts or else by your Argument when they circumcised one part they should have flayed the skin off all over and where it was not so flayed the sinne was not mortified These are your excellent gifts it seemes you would have published in Doctor Gouges Pulpit But you get you back to the Common-Prayer Booke made by the Pope and Prelates and to them it seemes you will sticke And then you say It was the practice of Christ and His Apostles and those that we call Fathers But Mr Doctor wee must have some Proofes Old Birds will not be catched with Chaff But then you ask Would we have our faces buried with Christ in Baptisme and baptized into his Death and have our face onely rise with him or would you have onely an outside death to sin and resurrection to life in Christ Col. 2.12 Rom. 6.3 4. Or would you make Christ onely a vizzard for your face But Mr