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water_n baptize_v ghost_n john_n 5,919 5 6.8890 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A30138 Differences in judgment about vvater-baptism, no bar to communion, or, To communicate with saints, as saints, proved lawful in answer to a book written by the Baptists, and published by Mr. T.P. and Mr. W.K. entituled, Some serious reflections on that part of Mr. Bunyan's confession of faith, touching church-communion with unbaptized believers : wherein, their objections and arguments are answered, and the doctrine of communion still asserted and vindicated : here is also Mr. Henry's Jesse's judgment in the case, fully declaring the doctrine I have asserted / by John Bunyan. Bunyan, John, 1628-1688.; Jessey, Henry, 1603-1663. 1673 (1673) Wing B5509; ESTC R21419 60,966 126

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it_o be_v such_o as_o whole_o and_o immediate_o relate_v to_o the_o duty_n of_o the_o church_n as_o a_o church_n 2._o further_o that_o other_o text_n that_o treat_v of_o our_o be_v baptize_v into_o a_o body_n say_v express_o it_o be_v do_v by_o the_o spirit_n for_o by_o one_o 13._o spirit_n we_o be_v all_o baptize_v into_o one_o body_n 1_o cor._n 12._o 16._o here_o be_v the_o church_n present_v as_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o a_o body_n here_o be_v a_o baptism_n mention_v by_o which_o they_o be_v bring_v or_o initiate_v into_o this_o body_n now_o that_o this_o be_v the_o baptism_n of_o water_n be_v utter_o against_o the_o word_n of_o the_o text_n for_o by_o one_o spirit_n be_v we_o all_o baptize_v into_o one_o body_n beside_o if_o the_o baptism_n here_o be_v of_o water_n then_o be_v it_o the_o initiate_a ordinance_n but_o the_o contrary_n i_o have_v prove_v and_o this_o author_n stand_v by_o my_o doctrine_n so_o then_o the_o baptism_n here_o respect_v the_o church_n as_o a_o body_n 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text_n but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n baptise_v the_o saint_n into_o a_o body_n or_o church_n you_o will_v hardly_o be_v able_a to_o make_v the_o contrary_n appear_v to_o be_v truth_n but_o behold_v while_o here_o you_o will_v have_v this_o to_o be_v baptism_n with_o water_n how_o you_o contradict_v and_o condemn_v your_o own_o notion_n you_o say_v water-baptism_n be_v not_o the_o enter_a ordinance_n yet_o the_o baptism_n here_o be_v such_o as_o baptize_v we_o into_o a_o body_n wherefore_o before_o you_o say_v next_o time_n that_o this_o in_o 1_o cor._n 12._o 16._o be_v mean_v of_o water-baptism_n affirm_v that_o water-baptism_n be_v the_o initiate_a or_o enter_v ordinance_n that_o your_o opinion_n and_o doctrine_n may_v hang_v better_o together_o we_o come_v to_o my_o three_o argument_n which_o be_v to_o prove_v it_o be_v lawful_a to_o hold_v church-communion_n with_o the_o godly_a sincere_a believer_n though_o he_o have_v not_o be_v baptize_v with_o 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in_o the_o likeness_n of_o his_o resurrection_n rom._n 6._o 3_o 4_o 5._o what_o be_v here_o discourse_v but_o the_o doctrine_n of_o or_o that_o which_o baptism_n teach_v with_o a_o intimation_n that_o that_o be_v the_o chief_a for_o the_o sake_n of_o which_o that_o shadow_n be_v institute_v as_o also_o that_o they_o that_o have_v the_o doctrine_n or_o that_o which_o be_v signify_v thereby_o they_o only_o must_v reign_v with_o christ._n again_o this_o be_v that_o which_o he_o seek_v for_o among_o the_o corinthian_n if_o the_o dead_a rise_v not_o at_o all_o say_v he_o why_o then_o be_v you_o baptize_v for_o the_o dead_a 1._o cor._n 15._o 22._o why_o then_o be_v you_o baptize_v what_o do_v baptism_n teach_v you_o what_o doctrine_n do_v it_o preach_v to_o you_o further_o bary_v with_o he_o in_o baptism_n wherein_o also_o you_o be_v rise_v again_o with_o he_o through_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o operation_n of_o god_n who_o raise_v he_o from_o the_o dead_a what_o be_v here_o in_o chief_a assert_v but_o the_o doctrine_n only_o which_o water-baptism_n preach_v with_o a_o intimation_n that_o they_o and_o they_o only_a be_v the_o save_v of_o the_o lord_n that_o have_v hear_v receive_v and_o that_o live_v in_o this_o doctrine_n col._n 2._o 12_o 13._o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v of_o the_o lord_n supper_n it_o also_o have_v its_o doctrine_n but_o against_o this_o our_o author_n object_v say_v that_o this_o be_v call_v the_o doctrine_n of_o baptism_n i_o be_o yet_o to_o learn_v answ._n your_o ignorance_n of_o the_o truth_n make_v it_o not_o a_o error_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o what_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o baptism_n if_o not_o that_o which_o baptism_n teach_v even_o that_o which_o be_v signify_v thereby_o as_o that_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o scripture_n which_o he_o and_o they_o teach_v as_o the_o mind_n of_o god_n but_o you_o say_v i_o take_v the_o doctrine_n of_o baptism_n to_o be_v the_o command_n that_o a_o believer_n shall_v be_v baptize_v 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with_o their_o sabbath_n be_v type_n of_o that_o christ_n who_o be_v the_o substance_n of_o all_o those_o ceremony_n if_o any_o of_o they_o then_o that_o profess_a faith_n in_o the_o messiah_n to_o come_v shall_v upon_o scruple_n or_o want_v of_o pretend_a light_n neglect_v the_o whole_a or_o part_n of_o that_o typical_a worship_n why_o may_v not_o a_o man_n say_v of_o they_o as_o this_o advocate_n of_o the_o practice_n under_o debate_n they_o have_v the_o rich_a and_o better_a sacrifice_n answ._n first_o that_o the_o brethren_n which_o refuse_v to_o be_v baptize_v as_o you_o and_o i_o will_v have_v they_o refuse_v it_o for_o want_n of_o pretend_a light_n become_v you_o not_o to_o imagine_v unless_o your_o boldness_n will_v lead_v you_o to_o judge_v that_o all_o man_n want_v sincerity_n that_o come_v not_o up_o to_o our_o judgement_n their_o conscience_n may_v be_v better_o than_o either_o you_o or_o i_o yet_o god_n for_o purpose_n best_o know_v to_o himself_o may_v forbear_v to_o give_v they_o conviction_n of_o their_o duty_n in_o this_o particular_a but_o what_o because_o they_o be_v not_o baptize_v have_v they_o not_o jesus_n christ_n or_o must_v we_o now_o be_v afraid_a to_o say_v christ_n be_v better_a than_o water-baptism_n yea_o god_n himself_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o this_o better_a thing_n have_v suffer_v in_o his_o church_n a_o suspension_n of_o some_o of_o his_o ordinance_n yet_o own_v they_o for_o his_o true_o constitute_v congregation_n what_o say_v you_o to_o the_o church_n in_o the_o wilderness_n i_o touch_v you_o with_o it_o in_o my_o first_o but_o perceive_v you_o list_v not_o to_o meddle_v therewith_o that_o church_n receive_v member_n the_o way_n which_o be_v not_o prescribe_v by_o but_o direct_o against_o the_o reveal_v mind_n of_o god_n yet_o stand_v a_o true_a church_n their_o member_n true_a member_n also_o that_o church_n in_o that_o state_n be_v such_o before_o who_o among_o who_o and_o to_o who_o god_n continual_o make_v know_v himself_o to_o be_v their_o god_n and_o own_v they_o for_o his_o peculiar_a treasure_n and_o now_o i_o be_o fall_v upon_o it_o let_v i_o a_o little_a enlarge_v this_o church_n according_a to_o the_o then_o institute_v worship_n of_o god_n have_v circumcision_n for_o their_o entering-ordinance_n gen._n 17._o 13_o 14._o without_o which_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o receive_v any_o into_o fellowship_n with_o they_o yea_o he_o that_o without_o it_o be_v receive_v be_v to_o be_v cut_v off_o and_o cast_v out_o again_o further_n as_o to_o the_o passeover_n the_o uncircumcize_v be_v utter_o forbid_v to_o eat_v it_o exod._n 12._o now_o if_o our_o brethren_n have_v as_o express_v prohibition_n to_o justify_v their_o groundless_a opinion_n as_o here_o be_v to_o exclude_v the_o uncircumcised_a from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o
he_o ought_v to_o have_v it_o before_o he_o be_v convict_v it_o be_v his_o duty_n to_o be_v baptize_v or_o else_o he_o play_v the_o hypocrite_n there_o be_v therefore_o no_o difference_n between_o that_o believer_n that_o be_v and_o he_o that_o be_v not_o yet_o baptize_v with_o water_n but_o only_o his_o go_v down_o into_o the_o water_n there_o to_o perform_v a_o outward_a ceremony_n of_o the_o substance_n which_o he_o have_v already_o which_o yet_o he_o be_v not_o command_v to_o do_v with_o respect_n to_o membership_n with_o the_o church_n but_o to_o obtain_v by_o that_o further_a understanding_n of_o his_o privilege_n by_o christ_n which_o before_o he_o make_v profession_n of_o and_o that_o as_o a_o visible_a believer_n but_o to_o come_v to_o my_o four_o argument_n which_o you_o so_o tender_o touch_v as_o if_o it_o burn_v your_o finger_n i_o be_o bold_a say_v i_o to_o have_v communion_n with_o visible_a saint_n as_o before_o because_o god_n have_v communion_n with_o they_o who_o example_n in_o the_o case_n we_o be_v strict_o command_v to_o follow_v receive_v you_o one_o another_o as_o christ_n jesus_n have_v receive_v 7_o you_o to_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n yea_o though_o they_o be_v saint_n in_o opinion_n contrary_a to_o you_o or_o i._o we_o that_o be_v strong_a aught_o to_o bear_v the_o infirmity_n 1._o of_o the_o weak_a and_o not_o to_o please_v ourselves_o infirmity_n that_o be_v sinful_a for_o they_o that_o be_v natural_a be_v incident_a to_o all_o infirmity_n therefore_o they_o be_v that_o for_o want_v of_o light_n cause_v a_o man_n to_o err_v in_o circumstantial_o and_o the_o reason_n upon_o which_o paul_n ground_v this_o admonition_n be_v for_o christ_n please_v not_o himself_o 3._o but_o as_o it_o be_v write_v the_o reproach_n of_o they_o that_o reproach_v thou_o be_v fall_v upon_o i_o you_o say_v to_o this_o pag._n 20._o that_o it_o be_v paul_n direction_n to_o the_o church_n at_o rome_n how_o to_o receive_v their_o brethren_n church-member_n pag._n 20._o i_o answer_v 1._o what_o be_v not_o the_o poor_a saint_n now_o in_o this_o city_n be_v not_o they_o concern_v in_o these_o instruction_n or_o be_v not_o the_o church_n by_o these_o word_n at_o all_o direct_v how_o to_o carry_v it_o to_o those_o that_o be_v not_o yet_o in_o fellowship_n a_o bold_a assertion_n but_o ground_v upon_o nothing_o but_o that_o you_o will_v have_v it_o so_o 2._o but_o how_o will_v you_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v a_o church_n a_o right_o constitute_v church_n at_o rome_n beside_o that_o in_o aquila_n house_n chap._n 16._o neither_o do_v this_o epistle_n nor_o any_o other_o in_o the_o whole_a book_n of_o god_n affirm_v it_o beside_o since_o paul_n in_o this_o last_o chapter_n salute_v the_o church_n as_o in_o this_o man_n house_n but_o the_o other_o only_o as_o particular_a saint_n it_o give_v far_a ground_n of_o conviction_n to_o you_o that_o those_o other_o be_v not_o as_o yet_o embody_v in_o such_o a_o fellowship_n 3._o but_o suppose_v there_o be_v another_o church_n beside_o it_o do_v not_o therefore_o follow_v that_o the_o apostle_n exhort_v they_o only_o to_o receive_v person_n already_o in_o fellowship_n but_o he_o even_o 1_o every_o he_o that_o there_o be_v weak_a in_o the_o faith_n but_o not_o to_o doubtful_a disputation_n 4._o suppose_v again_o the_o receive_v here_o exhort_v to_o be_v such_o as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o yet_o the_o rule_n by_o which_o they_o be_v direct_v to_o do_v it_o be_v that_o by_o which_o we_o perceive_v that_o christ_n have_v receive_v they_o but_o christ_n do_v not_o receive_v they_o by_o baptism_n but_o as_o give_v to_o he_o by_o the_o father_n he_o therefore_o concern_v who_o we_o be_v convince_v that_o he_o by_o the_o father_n be_v give_v to_o christ_n he_o shall_v we_o receive_v 5._o but_o what_o need_v i_o grant_v you_o that_o which_o can_v be_v prove_v yet_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v it_o it_o avail_v nothing_o at_o all_o because_o you_o may_v not_o can_v ought_v not_o to_o dare_v to_o limit_v the_o exhortation_n to_o receive_v of_o one_o another_o into_o each_o other_o affection_n only_o and_o not_o also_o receive_v saint_n into_o communion_n but_o you_o object_n to_o make_v god_n receive_v the_o rule_n of_o our_o receive_n in_o all_o case_n will_v not_o hold_v pag._n 21._o answ._n keep_v to_o the_o thing_n man_n if_o it_o hold_v in_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n it_o be_v enough_o the_o which_o you_o have_v not_o deny_v and_o that_o it_o hold_v thus_o be_v plain_a because_o command_v but_o let_v the_o reader_n know_v that_o your_o put_n in_o that_o way_n of_o his_o receive_n which_o be_v invisible_a to_o we_o be_v but_o a_o unhandsome_a straddle_a over_o my_o argument_n which_o treat_v only_o of_o a_o visible_a receive_n such_o as_o be_v manifest_a to_o the_o church_n this_o you_o know_v but_o seek_v by_o evade_n to_o turn_v the_o reader_n from_o consider_v the_o strength_n of_o this_o my_o argument_n the_o receive_v then_o say_v i_o p._n 29._o because_o it_o be_v set_v a_o example_n to_o the_o church_n be_v such_o as_o must_v needs_o be_v visible_a unto_o they_o and_o be_v best_a discover_v by_o that_o word_n that_o describe_v the_o visible_a saint_n whoso_o than_o you_o can_v judge_v a_o visible_a saint_n one_o that_o walk_v with_o god_n you_o may_v nay_o aught_o to_o judge_n by_o the_o same_o word_n god_n have_v receive_v he_o now_o he_o that_o god_n receive_v he_o shall_v you_o receive_v but_o will_v any_o object_n they_o can_v believe_v that_o god_n receive_v the_o unbaptised_a saint_n i_o will_v not_o suppose_v you_o so_o much_o stupefy_v and_o therefore_o shall_v make_v no_o answer_n but_o you_o seem_v to_o be_v much_o offend_v because_o i_o say_v vain_a man_n think_v not_o by_o the_o straightness_n of_o thy_o order_n in_o outward_a and_o bodily_a conformity_n to_o outward_a and_o shadowish_a circumstance_n that_o thy_o peace_n be_v maintain_v with_o god_n but_o why_o so_o much_o offend_v at_o this_o because_o you_o intend_v by_o this_o the_o brethren_n of_o the_o baptise_a way_n a._n if_o they_o be_v vain_a man_n and_o set_v up_o their_o own_o order_n how_o straight_o soever_o they_o make_v it_o they_o be_v worthy_a to_o be_v reprove_v if_o 9_o they_o have_v reject_v the_o word_n of_o the_o lord_n what_o wisdom_n be_v in_o they_o and_o as_o you_o suggest_v the_o first_o i_o affirm_v the_o second_o but_o if_o you_o will_v be_v justify_v in_o exclude_v those_o with_o who_o yet_o you_o see_v god_n have_v communion_n because_o they_o yet_o see_v not_o a_o shadow_n with_o you_o produce_v the_o scripture_n for_o such_o order_n that_o we_o may_v believe_v it_o be_v the_o order_n of_o god_n but_o deal_v fair_o leave_v we_o show_v your_o nakedness_n and_o other_o see_v your_o shame_n you_o tell_v i_o of_o the_o order_n of_o the_o colossian_n chap._n 2._o 5._o but_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o that_o church_n refuse_v to_o hold_v communion_n with_o that_o saint_n who_o they_o know_v to_o be_v receive_v by_o christ_n and_o hold_v communion_n with_o he_o or_o that_o none_o but_o those_o that_o be_v baptize_v be_v receive_v by_o and_o hold_v communion_n with_o he_o than_o you_o justify_v your_o order_n in_o the_o mean_a while_o the_o whole_a of_o my_o argument_n stand_v firm_a against_o you_o you_o must_v have_v communion_n with_o visible_a saint_n because_o god_n have_v communion_n with_o they_o who_o example_n in_o the_o case_n we_o be_v strict_o command_v to_o follow_v but_o you_o ask_v i_o if_o outward_a and_o bodily_a conformity_n be_v become_v a_o crime_n pag._n 23._o answ._n i_o no_o where_o say_v it_o but_o know_v that_o to_o glorify_v god_n with_o our_o body_n respect_v chief_o far_o high_o and_o more_o weighty_a thing_n than_o that_o of_o water-baptism_n whatsoever_o be_v 14._o not_o of_o faith_n be_v sin_n and_o to_o set_v up_o a_o ordinance_n though_o a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n that_o by_o it_o the_o church_n may_v be_v pull_v in_o piece_n or_o the_o true_o visible_a saint_n exclude_v communion_n with_o their_o brethren_n i_o say_v again_o to_o make_v water-baptism_n a_o bar_n and_o division_n betwixt_o saint_n and_o saint_n every-whit_n otherwise_o gracious_a and_o holy_a alike_o this_o be_v like_o fast_v for_o strife_n and_o debate_n and_o to_o smite_v with_o the_o fist_n of_o wickedness_n and_o be_v not_o to_o be_v find_v within_o the_o whole_a bible_n but_o be_v whole_o a_o order_n of_o your_o own_o devise_v as_o to_o the_o peace_n you_o make_v a_o objection_n about_o pag._n 23._o you_o have_v grant_v i_o what_o i_o intend_v and_o now_o i_o add_v further_o that_o for_o church-peace_n to_o be_v 32._o found_v in_o baptism_n or_o any_o other_o external_a rite_n not_o have_v to_o do_v with_o the_o church_n as_o a_o 3._o
church_n be_v poor_a peace_n indeed_o church-peace_n be_v found_v in_o blood_n and_o love_v to_o each_o other_o for_o jesus_n sake_n bear_v with_o and_o forbear_v one_o another_o in_o all_o thing_n circumstantial_a that_o concern_v not_o church-worship_n as_o such_o and_o in_o my_o other_o i_o have_v prove_v that_o baptism_n be_v not_o such_o and_o therefore_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v urge_v to_o make_v rent_n and_o division_n among_o brethren_n but_o you_o ask_v be_v my_o peace_n maintain_v in_o a_o way_n of_o disobedience_n and_o conclude_v if_o it_o be_v you_o fear_v it_o be_v false_a pag._n 24._o a._n if_o the_o first_o be_v true_a you_o need_v not_o to_o doubt_v of_o the_o second_o but_o it_o may_v be_v think_v he_o have_v little_a to_o say_v in_o the_o controversy_n who_o be_v force_v to_o stuff_n out_o his_o paper_n with_o such_o needless_a prattle_n as_o these_o my_o five_o argument_n be_v that_o a_o failure_n in_o such_o a_o circumstance_n as_o water-baptism_n do_v not_o un-christian_a we_o this_o you_o be_v compel_v to_o grant_v pag._n 25._o and_o i_o conclude_v with_o your_o word_n person_n ought_v to_o be_v christian_n before_o visible_a christian_n such_o as_o any_o congregation_n in_o the_o land_n may_v receive_v to_o communion_n with_o themselves_o because_o god_n have_v show_v we_o that_o he_o have_v receive_v they_o receive_v he_o to_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n to_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n be_v put_v in_o on_o purpose_n to_o show_v what_o dishonour_n they_o bring_v to_o he_o who_o despise_v to_o have_v communion_n with_o such_o who_o they_o know_v do_v maintain_v communion_n with_o god_n i_o say_v again_o how_o do_v this_o man_n or_o that_o church_n glorify_v god_n or_o count_v the_o wisdom_n and_o holiness_n of_o heaven_n beyond_o they_o when_o they_o refuse_v communion_n with_o they_o concern_v who_o yet_o they_o be_v convince_v that_o they_o have_v communion_n with_o god_n but_o my_o argument_n you_o have_v not_o deny_v nor_o meddle_v with_o the_o conclusion_n at_o all_o which_o be_v that_o therefore_o even_o because_o a_o failure_n here_o do_v not_o un-christian_a we_o do_v not_o make_v we_o insincere_a and_o i_o add_v do_v not_o lay_v we_o open_v to_o any_o reveal_v judgement_n or_o displeasure_n of_o god_n if_o it_o do_v show_v where_o therefore_o it_o shall_v not_o it_o ought_v not_o to_o make_v we_o obnoxious_a to_o the_o displeasure_n of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n but_o you_o say_v i_o rank_a gospel-precept_n with_o old-testament_n abrogate_a ceremony_n pag._n 25._o answ._n you_o shall_v have_v give_v your_o reader_n my_o word_n that_o he_o may_v have_v judge_v from_o my_o own_o mouth_n i_o say_v then_o speak_v before_o of_o christianity_n itself_o pag._n 94._o that_o thousand_o of_o thousand_o that_o can_v not_o consent_v to_o water_n as_o we_o be_v now_o with_o the_o innumerable_a company_n of_o angel_n and_o the_o spirit_n of_o just_a man_n make_v perfect_a what_o be_v say_v of_o eat_v or_o the_o contrary_a may_v as_o to_o this_o be_v say_v of_o water-baptism_n neither_o if_o i_o be_v baptize_v be_o i_o the_o better_a neither_o if_o i_o be_v not_o be_o i_o the_o worse_a not_o the_o better_a before_o god_n not_o the_o worse_a before_o man_n still_o meaning_n as_o paul_n provide_v i_o walk_v according_a to_o my_o light_n with_o god_n otherwise_o it_o be_v false_a for_o if_o a_o man_n that_o see_v it_o to_o be_v his_o duty_n shall_v despise_o neglect_v it_o or_o if_o he_o that_o have_v not_o faith_n about_o it_o shall_v foolish_o take_v it_o up_o both_o these_o be_v for_o this_o the_o worse_o i_o mean_v as_o to_o their_o own_o sense_n be_v convict_v in_o themselves_o as_o transgressor_n he_o therefore_o that_o do_v it_o according_a to_o his_o light_n do_v well_o and_o he_o that_o do_v it_o not_o for_o want_v of_o light_n do_v not_o ill_a for_o he_o approve_v his_o heart_n to_o be_v sincere_a with_o god_n even_o by_o that_o his_o forbearance_n and_o i_o tell_v you_o again_o it_o be_v no_o where_o record_v that_o this_o man_n be_v under_o any_o reveal_v threaten_v of_o god_n for_o his_o not_o be_v baptize_v with_o water_n he_o not_o have_v light_n therein_o but_o be_v admit_v through_o his_o grace_n to_o as_o many_o promise_v as_o you_o if_o therefore_o he_o be_v not_o a_o partaker_n of_o that_o circumstance_n yet_o he_o be_v of_o that_o liberty_n and_o mercy_n by_o which_o you_o stand_v with_o god_n but_o that_o i_o practise_v institute_v worship_n upon_o the_o same_o account_n as_o paul_n do_v circumcision_n and_o shave_v be_v too_o bold_a for_o you_o to_o presume_v to_o imagine_v what_o because_o i_o will_v not_o suffer_v water_n to_o carry_v away_o the_o epistle_n from_o the_o christian_n and_o because_o i_o will_v not_o let_v water-baptism_n be_v the_o rule_n the_o door_n the_o bolt_n the_o bar_n the_o wall_n of_o division_n between_o the_o righteous_a &_o the_o righteous_a must_v i_o therefore_o be_v judge_v to_o be_v a_o man_n without_o conscience_n to_o the_o worship_n of_o jesus_n christ_n the_o lord_n deliver_v i_o from_o superstitious_a and_o idolatrous_a thought_n about_o any_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n and_o of_o god_n but_o my_o five_o argument_n stand_v against_o you_o untouched_a you_o have_v not_o deny_v much_o less_o confute_v the_o least_o syllable_n thereof_o you_o tell_v i_o my_o six_o argument_n be_v edification_n a._n if_o it_o be_v why_o be_v it_o not_o embrace_v but_o my_o own_o word_n be_v these_o i_o be_o for_o hold_v communion_n thus_o because_o the_o edification_n of_o soul_n in_o the_o faith_n and_o holiness_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v of_o great_a concern_n than_o a_o agreement_n in_o outward_a thing_n i_o say_v it_o be_v of_o great_a concern_n with_o we_o and_o of_o far_o more_o profit_n to_o brother_n than_o our_o agree_n in_o or_o contess_v for_o water-baptism_n joh._n 16._o 13._o 1_o cor._n 14._o 12._o 2_o cor._n 10._o 8._o chap._n 12._o 19_o ephes._n 4._o 12._o 1_o cor._n 13._o 1_o 2._o chap._n 8._o 1._o now_o why_o do_v you_o not_o take_v this_o argument_n in_o piece_n and_o answer_v those_o scripture_n on_o which_o the_o strength_n thereof_o depend_v but_o if_o to_o contest_v and_o fall_v out_o about_o water-baptism_n be_v better_o than_o to_o edify_v the_o house_n of_o god_n produce_v the_o text_n that_o we_o may_v be_v inform_v you_o say_v edification_n be_v the_o end_n of_o all_o communion_n but_o all_o thing_n must_v be_v do_v in_o order_n orderly_o pag._n 26._o answ._n when_o you_o have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o a_o orderly_a edify_n of_o the_o church_n without_o water-baptism_n precede_v than_o it_o will_v be_v time_n enough_o to_o think_v you_o have_v say_v something_o you_o add_v edification_n as_o to_o church-fellowship_n be_v a_o build_n up_o do_v suppose_v the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n but_o pray_v you_o show_v we_o a_o chuh_n without_o baptism_n p._n 26._o a._n see_v here_o the_o spirit_n of_o these_o man_n who_o for_o the_o want_n of_o water-baptism_n 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but_o to_o all_o scatter_a saint_n that_o in_o every_o place_n call_v upon_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n that_o jesus_n christ_n be_v they_o that_o paul_n and_o apollo_n and_o cephas_n and_o the_o world_n and_o all_o thing_n else_o be_v they_o but_o you_o answer_v we_o take_v from_o they_o nothing_o but_o we_o keep_v they_o from_o a_o disorderly_a practice_n of_o gospel-ordinance_n we_o offer_v they_o their_o privilege_n in_o the_o way_n of_o gospel-order_n answ._n where_o have_v you_o one_o word_n of_o god_n that_o forbid_v a_o person_n so_o qualify_v as_o be_v signify_v in_o my_o argument_n the_o best_a communion_n of_o saint_n for_o want_n of_o water_n there_o be_v not_o a_o syllable_n for_o this_o in_o all_o the_o book_n of_o god_n so_o then_o you_o in_o this_o your_o plausible_a defence_n do_v make_v your_o scriptureless_a light_n which_o in_o very_a deed_n be_v darkness_n isa._n 8._o 20_o 21._o the_o rule_n of_o your_o brother_n faith_n and_o how_o well_o you_o will_v come_v off_o for_o this_o in_o the_o day_n of_o god_n you_o may_v be_v you_o not_o wed_v to_o your_o wordless_a opinion_n soon_o begin_v to_o conceive_v i_o know_v your_o reply_n new-testament_n saint_n be_v all_o baptize_v first_o answ_n suppose_v it_o grant_v be_v they_o baptize_v that_o thereby_o they_o may_v be_v qualify_v for_o their_o right_n to_o communion_n of_o saint_n so_o that_o without_o their_o submit_v to_o water_n they_o be_v to_o be_v deny_v the_o other_o further_o suppose_v i_o shall_v grant_v this_o groundless_a notion_n be_v not_o the_o jew_n in_o old_a testament_n time_n to_o enter_v the_o church_n by_o circumcision_n for_o that_o 17._o though_o water_n be_v not_o be_v the_o very_a entering-ordinance_n 12._o beside_o as_o i_o say_v before_o there_o be_v a_o full_a forbid_v all_o that_o be_v not_o circumcise_v from_o enter_v into_o fellowship_n with_o a_o threaten_a to_o cut_v they_o off_o from_o the_o church_n if_o they_o enter_v in_o without_o it_o yet_o more_o than_o 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all_o the_o elder_n of_o israel_n will_v have_v thank_v this_o fellow_n or_o have_v conclude_v that_o he_o speak_v on_o god_n behalf_n or_o that_o they_o shall_v then_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o a_o better_a than_o what_o you_o call_v order_n have_v set_v to_o the_o work_n that_o you_o will_v be_v do_v even_o to_o break_v the_o church_n in_o piece_n for_o this_o but_o say_v you_o if_o any_o will_v find_v or_o force_v another_o way_n into_o the_o sheep-fold_n than_o by_o the_o footstep_n of_o the_o flock_n we_o have_v no_o such_o custom_n nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n pag._n 41._o answ._n what_o be_v do_v of_o old_a i_o have_v show_v you_o that_o christ_n not_o baptism_n be_v the_o way_n to_o the_o sheep-fold_n be_v apparent_a and_o that_o the_o person_n in_o my_o argument_n be_v entitle_v to_o all_o these_o to_o wit_n christ_n grace_n and_o all_o the_o thing_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o church_n be_v upon_o the_o scripture_n urge_v as_o evident_a but_o you_o add_v that_o according_a to_o my_o old_a confidence_n i_o affirm_v that_o drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o be_v entail_v to_o faith_n not_o baptism_n a_o thing_n say_v you_o soon_o say_v but_o yet_o never_o prove_v answ._n 1._o that_o it_o be_v entail_v to_o faith_n must_v be_v confess_v of_o all_o hand_n 2._o that_o it_o be_v the_o privilege_n of_o he_o that_o discern_v the_o lord_n 29._o body_n and_o that_o no_o man_n be_v to_o deny_v he_o it_o be_v also_o by_o the_o text_n as_o evident_a and_o so_o let_v he_o eat_v because_o he_o be_v worthy_a wherefore_o he_o and_o he_o only_o that_o discern_v the_o lord_n body_n he_o be_v the_o worthy_a receiver_n the_o worthy_a receiver_n in_o god_n estimation_n but_o that_o none_o discern_v the_o lord_n body_n but_o the_o baptise_a be_v both_o fond_a and_o ridiculous_a once_o to_o surmise_v wherefore_o to_o exclude_v christian_n and_o to_o debar_v they_o their_o heavenborn_a privilege_n for_o want_v of_o that_o which_o yet_o god_n never_o make_v the_o wall_n of_o division_n betwixt_o we_o this_o look_v too_o like_o a_o spirit_n of_o persecution_n job_n 19_o 25_o 26_o 27_o 28_o etc._n etc._n and_o carry_v in_o it_o those_o eighteen_o absurdity_n which_o you_o have_v so_o hot_o cry_v out_o against_o and_o i_o do_v still_o add_v be_v it_o not_o that_o which_o great_o prevail_v with_o god_n to_o bring_v down_o those_o judgement_n which_o at_o present_a we_o the_o people_n of_o god_n groan_v under_o i_o will_v dare_v to_o say_v it_o be_v the._n a_o cause_n thereof_o yea_o i_o will_v yet_o proceed_v i_o fear_v i_o strong_o fear_v that_o the_o rod_n of_o god_n be_v not_o yet_o to_o be_v take_v from_o we_o for_o what_o more_o provoke_a sin_n among_o christian_n than_o to_o deny_v one_o another_o their_o right_n and_o privilege_n to_o which_o they_o be_v bear_v of_o god_n and_o then_o to_o father_n these_o their_o do_n upon_o god_n when_o yet_o he_o have_v not_o command_v it_o neither_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n nor_o the_o old_a but_o i_o may_v not_o light_o pass_v this_o by_o for_o because_o i_o have_v gather_v eighteen_o absurdity_n from_o this_o abuse_n of_o god_n ordinance_n or_o from_o the_o sin_n of_o bind_v the_o brethren_n to_o observe_v order_n not_o found_v on_o the_o command_n of_o god_n and_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o have_v none_o to_o shut_v out_o man_n as_o good_a as_o holy_a and_o as_o sound_v in_o faith_n as_o ourselves_o from_o communion_n therefore_o you_o call_v my_o conclusion_n devilish_a pag._n 43._o top-ful_a of_o ignorance_n and_o prejudice_n p._n 41._o and_o i_o one_o of_o machiavel_n scholar_n p._n 42._o also_o proud_a presumptuous_a impeach_v the_o judgement_n of_o god_n answ._n but_o what_o be_v there_o in_o my_o proposition_n that_o man_n considerate_a can_v be_v offend_v at_o these_o be_v my_o word_n but_o to_o exclude_v christian_n from_o church-communion_n and_o to_o debar_v they_o their_o heavenborn_a privilege_n for_o the_o want_n of_o that_o which_o yet_o god_n never_o make_v a_o wall_n of_o division_n between_o we_o this_o look_v too_o like_o a_o spirit_n of_o persecution_n this_o respect_v more_o the_o form_n than_o the_o spirit_n and_o power_n of_o godliness_n etc._n etc._n shall_v i_o add_v be_v it_o not_o that_o which_o great_o prevail_v to_o bring_v down_o those_o judgement_n which_o at_o present_a we_o feel_v and_o groan_v under_o i_o will_v dare_v to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o cause_n thereof_o p._n 116_o 117._o a_o be_v in_o my_o copy_n instead_o whereof_o the_o printer_n put_v in_o the_o for_o this_o although_o i_o speak_v only_o the_o truth_n i_o will_v not_o beg_v of_o you_o belief_n beside_o the_o bookseller_n desire_v i_o because_o of_o the_o printer_n haste_n to_o leave_v the_o last_o sheet_n to_o be_v over-looked_n by_o he_o which_o be_v the_o cause_n it_o be_v not_o among_o the_o errata_n but_o i_o say_v wherein_o be_v the_o proposition_n offensive_a be_v it_o not_o a_o wicked_a thing_n to_o make_v bar_n to_o communion_n where_o god_n have_v make_v 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be_v the_o effect_n of_o baptism_n say_v to_o i_o none_o but_o yourself_o can_v find_v a_o innocent_a truth_n big_a with_o so_o many_o monstrous_a absurdity_n pag._n 42._o i_o answer_v this_o be_v but_o speak_v wicked_o for_o god_n or_o rather_o to_o justify_v your_o wordless_a practice_n i_o say_v not_o that_o baptism_n have_v any_o absurdity_n in_o it_o though_o your_o abuse_n it_o have_v they_o all_o and_o many_o more_o while_o you_o make_v it_o without_o warrant_n from_o the_o word_n as_o the_o flame_a sword_n to_o keep_v the_o brotherhood_n out_o of_o communion_n because_o they_o after_o your_o manner_n can_v consent_v thereto_o and_o let_v no_o man_n be_v offend_v for_o that_o i_o suggest_v that_o baptism_n may_v be_v abuse_v to_o the_o breed_n such_o monstrous_a absurdity_n for_o great_a truth_n than_o that_o have_v be_v as_o much_o abuse_v what_o say_v you_o to_o this_o be_v my_o body_n to_o instance_n no_o more_o although_o i_o can_v instance_n many_o be_v not_o they_o the_o word_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v not_o they_o part_v of_o the_o scripture_n of_o truth_n and_o yet_o behold_v even_o with_o those_o word_n the_o devil_n by_o abuse_v they_o make_v a_o engine_n to_o let_v out_o the_o heartblood_n of_o thousand_o baptism_n also_o may_v be_v abuse_v and_o be_v when_o more_o be_v lay_v upon_o it_o by_o we_o than_o be_v command_v by_o god_n and_o that_o you_o do_v so_o be_v manifest_a by_o what_o i_o have_v say_v already_o and_o shall_v yet_o say_v to_o your_o fourteen_o argument_n my_o last_o argument_n you_o say_v be_v this_o the_o world_n may_v wonder_v at_o your_o carriage_n to_o those_o unbaptised_a person_n in_o keep_v they_o out_o of_o communion_n ans._n you_o will_v yet_o set_v up_o your_o own_o word_n and_o then_o fight_v against_o they_o but_o my_o word_n be_v these_o what_o great_a contempt_n can_v be_v throw_v upon_o the_o saint_n than_o for_o their_o brethren_n to_o cut_v they_o off_o from_o or_o to_o debar_v they_o church-communion_n and_o now_o i_o add_v be_v not_o this_o to_o deliver_v they_o to_o the_o devil_n 1_o cor._n 5._o or_o to_o put_v they_o to_o shame_n before_o all_o that_o see_v your_o act_n there_o be_v but_o one_o thing_n can_v hinder_v this_o and_o that_o be_v bystander_n see_v that_o these_o your_o brethren_n that_o you_o thus_o abuse_v be_v as_o holy_a man_n as_o ourselves_o do_v you_o more_o to_o the_o open_a profane_a yea_o to_o all_o wizard_n and_o witch_n in_o the_o land_n for_o all_o you_o can_v do_v to_o they_o i_o speak_v now_o as_o to_o church-act_n be_v no_o other_o than_o debar_v they_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n and_o now_o i_o say_v again_o the_o world_n may_v well_o wonder_v when_o they_o see_v you_o deny_v holy-man_n of_o god_n that_o liberty_n of_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n which_o you_o monopolise_v to_o yourselves_o and_o though_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o ground_n of_o profession_n or_o communion_n yet_o they_o can_v both_o see_v and_o say_v these_o holy-man_n of_o god_n in_o all_o visible_a act_n of_o holiness_n be_v not_o one_o inch_n behind_o you_o yea_o i_o will_v put_v it_o to_o yourselves_o if_o those_o many_o yea_o very_o many_o who_o thus_o severe_o but_o with_o how_o little_a ground_n be_v see_v by_o man_n of_o god_n you_o deny_v communion_n with_o be_v not_o of_o as_o good_a as_o holy_a as_o unblameable_a in_o life_n and_o as_o sound_v if_o not_o sound_a in_o the_o faith_n than_o many_o among_o ourselves_o here_o only_o they_o make_v the_o stop_n they_o can_v without_o light_n be_v drive_v into_o water-baptism_n i_o mean_v after_o our_o notion_n of_o it_o but_o what_o if_o they_o be_v it_o will_v be_v little_a sign_n to_o i_o that_o they_o be_v sincere_a with_o god_n to_o conclude_v this_o when_o you_o have_v prove_v that_o water-baptism_n which_o you_o yourself_o have_v say_v be_v not_o a_o church-ordinance_n p._n 40._o be_v essential_a to_o church-communion_n and_o that_o the_o church_n may_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n bolt_n bar_n and_o for_o ever_o shut_v out_o those_o far_o better_o than_o our_o self_n that_o have_v not_o according_a to_o our_o notion_n be_v baptize_v with_o water_n then_o it_o will_v be_v time_n enough_o to_o talk_v of_o ground_n for_o so_o do_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o must_v take_v leave_n to_o tell_v you_o there_o be_v not_o in_o all_o the_o bible_n one_o syllable_n for_o such_o a_o practice_n wherefore_o your_o great_a cry_n about_o your_o order_n be_v wordless_a and_o therefore_o faithless_a and_o be_v a_o mere_a humane_a invention_n i_o come_v now_o to_o your_o fourteen_o argument_n and_o shall_v impartial_o consider_v they_o your_o first_o argument_n to_o prove_v it_o lawful_a to_o reject_v the_o unbaptised_a saint_n be_v because_o the_o great_a commission_n of_o christ_n matth._n 28._o from_o which_o all_o person_n have_v their_o authority_n for_o their_o ministry_n if_o any_o authority_n at_o all_o do_v clear_o direct_v the_o contrary_n by_o that_o commission_n minister_n be_v first_o to_o disciple_n and_o then_o to_o baptise_v they_o so_o make_v disciple_n and_o afterward_o to_o teach_v they_o to_o observe_v all_o that_o christ_n command_v they_o as_o to_o other_o ordinance_n of_o worship_n if_o minister_n have_v no_o other_o authority_n to_o teach_v they_o other_o part_n of_o gospel-worship_n before_o they_o believe_v and_o be_v baptize_v it_o may_v be_v strong_o suppose_v they_o be_v not_o to_o admit_v they_o to_o other_o ordinance_n before_o they_o have_v pass_v this_o first_o enjoin_v in_o the_o commission_n answ._n 1._o that_o the_o minister_n be_v to_o disciple_n and_o baptise_v be_v grant_v but_o that_o they_o be_v prohibit_v by_o the_o commission_n matth._n 28._o to_o teach_v the_o disciple_n other_o part_n of_o gospel-worship_n that_o have_v not_o light_a in_o baptism_n remain_v for_o you_o to_o prove_v shall_v i_o add_v this_o position_n be_v so_o absurd_a and_o void_a of_o truth_n that_o none_o that_o have_v ever_o read_v the_o love_n of_o christ_n the_o 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his_o inheritance_n in_o life_n and_o glory_n mark_n read_v it_o thus_o he_o that_o believe_v and_o be_v baptize_v shall_v be_v save_v but_o he_o that_o believe_v not_o shall_v be_v damn_v mark_v 16._o 16._o let_a baptism_n which_o he_o mention_v in_o the_o promise_n fall_v when_o he_o come_v at_o the_o threaten_a god_n also_o do_v thus_o with_o respect_n to_o his_o worship_n in_o the_o church_n he_o command_v all_o and_o every_o whit_n of_o his_o will_n to_o be_v do_v but_o bear_v with_o our_o come_n short_a in_o this_o and_o that_o and_o another_o duty_n but_o let_v we_o go_v on_o your_o second_o argument_n be_v that_o the_o order_n of_o christ_n commission_n as_o well_o as_o the_o matter_n therein_o contain_v to_o be_v observe_v may_v easy_o be_v conclude_v from_o god_n severity_n
towards_o they_o that_o seek_v he_o not_o according_a to_o due_a order_n 1_o chron._n 15._o 13._o be_v god_n so_o exact_a with_o his_o people_n then_o that_o all_o thing_n to_o a_o pin_n must_v be_v according_a to_o the_o pattern_n in_o the_o mount_n heb._n 7._o 16._o &_o 9_o 11._o who_o worship_n then_o comparative_o to_o the_o gospel_n be_v but_o after_o the_o law_n of_o a_o carnal_a commandment_n and_o can_v it_o be_v suppose_v he_o shall_v be_v so_o indifferent_a no●_n to_o leave_v man_n to_o their_o own_o liberty_n to_o time_n and_o place_n his_o appointment_n contrary_a to_o what_o he_o have_v give_v in_o express_a rule_n for_o in_o his_o word_n as_o before_o ezek._n 44._o 7_o 9_o 10._o it_o be_v the_o priest_n sin_n former_o to_o bring_v the_o uncircumcised_a in_o heart_n and_o flesh_n into_o his_o house_n answ._n that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o order_n in_o that_o commission_n as_o you_o feign_v i_o have_v prove_v as_o for_o your_o far-fetched_a instance_n 1_o chron._n 15._o 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he_o know_v he_o before_o he_o be_v baptize_v to_o be_v a_o man_n of_o god_n for_o say_v he_o i_o have_v need_n to_o be_v baptise_a 14._o of_o thou_o and_o come_v thou_o to_o i_o and_o know_v he_o after_o to_o be_v the_o send_v of_o god_n yet_o not_o 34._o in_o or_o by_o but_o after_o he_o be_v baptise_a to_o wit_n by_o the_o descend_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n after_o he_o be_v come_v out_o of_o the_o water_n as_o he_o be_v in_o prayer_n for_o the_o heaven_n be_v open_v to_o john_n and_o he_o see_v and_o bare_a record_n because_o he_o see_v the_o spirit_n descend_v from_o heaven_n and_o abide_v upon_o jesus_n after_o his_o baptism_n as_o he_o be_v in_o prayer_n mat._n 3._o 13_o 14_o 15_o 16._o luk._n 3._o 21_o 22._o thus_o we_o find_v he_o make_v know_v before_o and_o after_o but_o not_o at_o all_o by_o baptism_n to_o be_v the_o send_v of_o god_n and_o that_o baptism_n be_v the_o first_o fruit_n of_o faith_n or_o that_o faith_n ought_v to_o be_v tie_v to_o take_v its_o first_o step_n 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b._n c._n of_o a_o christian_a and_o the_o beginning_n of_o christianity_n milk_n for_o babe_n if_o it_o be_v no_o matter_n whether_o baptism_n be_v practise_v or_o no_o if_o it_o be_v say_v water-baptism_n be_v not_o there_o intend_v let_v they_o show_v i_o how_o many_o baptism_n there_o be_v beside_o water-baptism_n can_v you_o build_v and_o leave_v out_o a_o stone_n in_o the_o foundation_n i_o intend_v not_o baptism_n a_o foundation_n any_o other_o way_n but_o in_o respect_n of_o order_n and_o it_o be_v either_o intend_v for_o that_o or_o nothing_o answ._n baptism_n be_v in_o no_o sense_n the_o foundation_n of_o a_o church_n i_o find_v no_o foundation_n of_o a_o church_n but_o jesus_n christ_n himself_o mat._n 16._o 18._o 1_o cor._n 3._o 11._o yea_o the_o foundation_n mention_v heb._n 6._o 1_o 2._o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o this_o very_a christ._n for_o he_o be_v the_o foundation_n not_o only_o of_o the_o church_n but_o of_o all_o that_o good_a that_o at_o any_o time_n be_v find_v in_o she_o he_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o our_o repentance_n and_o of_o our_o faith_n towards_o god_n vers_fw-la 1_o 2._o further_o baptism_n be_v not_o here_o mention_v with_o respect_n to_o the_o act_n in_o water_n but_o of_o the_o doctrine_n that_o be_v the_o signification_n thereof_o the_o doctrine_n of_o baptism_n and_o observe_v neither_o faith_n nor_o repentance_n nor_o baptism_n be_v call_v here_o foundation_n another_o thing_n for_o a_o foundation_n be_v here_o by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n intend_v even_o a_o foundation_n for_o they_o all_o a_o foundation_n of_o faith_n of_o repentance_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o baptism_n of_o the_o resurrection_n of_o the_o dead_a and_o of_o eternal_a judgement_n and_o this_o foundation_n be_v jesus_n christ_n himself_o and_o these_o be_v the_o first_o principle_n the_o milk_n the_o a._n b._n c._n and_o the_o beginning_n of_o christian_a religion_n in_o the_o world_n i_o dare_v not_o say_v no_o matter_n whether_o water-baptism_n be_v 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