Selected quad for the lemma: water_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
water_n	baptize_v	dip_v	sprinkle_v	3,693	5	10.9320	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A89859	Weaknes above wickednes, and truth above subtilty. Which is the Quakers defence against the boaster and his deceitfull slanders. Clearly seen in an answer to a book called Quakers quaking; devised by Jeremiah Ive's against the dispised contemptible people trampled on by the world, and scorned by the scorners. In which the deceits are turned into the deceivers bosome, and the truth cleared from the accuser. In much plainesse, that the simple may see and perceive, and come to be gathered to the Lamb, from amongst the armies of the wicked, who have now set themselves against the Lord, and sees it not. Also some queries to Jeremy Ive's touching his false doctrine and deceits. / by one who is called, James Nayler.	Naylor, James, 1617?-1660.	1656 (1656)	Wing N327; ESTC R207303	22,439	32

it was God who wrought all their works in them to will and to doe of his good pleasure and without Christ they could nothing and the Saints obedience was through the Spirit and the works of the Children of light are wrought in God but thy works and thy obedience which thou hast not received from God are none of Christs and therefore thine own and so selfe righteousnesse Thou sayedst that whosoever speaks what those doe not understand to whom he speaks is a foole and a Barbarian Whereas the Scripture saith that Christ spoke many things Luke 18. 34. 2. 50. 9. 45. John 10. 6. 12. 16. in Parables which were not understood by them that heard him nay his Disciples understood none of those things for his sayings were hid from them in many things neither understood they the things which were spoken So thou mayst read thy blasphemy and what Spirit thou art of who by thy deceitfull vaine Phylosophy would prove Christ a foole and blaspheme that Spirit which spoke the Parables in Scripture to such as thee and your carnall understanding Thou sayedst none were baptized with the Holy Ghost but who wrought Miracles A thing far beyond thy proofe for Miracles were to cease but so was not the baptisme of the Spirit though at first they were given because of Unbelievers What Miracles wrought Timothy or Titus and what Miracles did they of Samaria spoken on Acts 8. or these Believers of Rome and many other that might be mentioned shewing thy untruth and ignorance as to the gift of the Holy Ghost But how shouldest thou now know the effects of the Holy Ghost who hast not received him as thou didst confesse before the people that thou wast not baptized of the Holy Ghost and so thou madest it appear by thy fruits who saidst That all good is not of God That Christ was not a Minister of the Circumcision That the Law was not given forth by Christ That John went not out of Jerusalem to baptize and when I told thee he baptized in Jordan and in the Wildernesse thou sayedst that Wildernesse was in Jerusalem and Jordan also Thou sayedst also Thou couldest fore-tell things to come and yet denyed the Baptisme of the Spirit to which I told thee then and tell thee againe that to fore-tell things to come without the Spirit of God is witchery And much more such like stuffe thou utteredst which thou hast gathered in by thine imaginations which are lies and deceits whereby thou leadest blind people into errour keeping them from the teachings of the Spirit in thy traditions which is neither according to spirit nor letter as is plaine in these things in thy water-baptisme wherein thou art erred from that in the letter both in thy call in the manner and in the end thereof as it was practised by the Apostles For they that were called to baptize were first called out of their habitations and made proofe of to be Disciples of Christ by denying all and following him and they were none of them living in their worldly estates as thou dost and they were either Prophets or Apostles immediately called from the Lord to that work and did not take it up by imitation as thou dost and so thou art neither in their call place nor power who hast not left all to follow Christ nor hast received the Holy Ghost And as to the manner they did not baptize those over againe with water that were baptized before but baptized such with the Holy Ghost which thou hast not thy selfe by thine own confession And as to the end they did not goe amongst Believers and by their water divide them into Seperations as you have done by your water who have set up so many formes of Baptisms till you have devided those who had some simplicity in them into Sects and Opinions concerning your water till you have left the Spirit and are left in conformity to the world in weightier things Neither did they limit the Spirit of God to the water as you doe who deny any to Prophesie in that you call your Churches till you have dipt them or sprinkled them over againe after your fashion Neither did they lay it as a thing of absolute necessity upon all But they went among such that did not believe that Christ was come and made them Disciples before baptizing them out of unbeliefe out of Sects and Opinions and Divisions gathering them out of all Formes Ceremonies and worships into one faith one body one light one way one baptisme which yours ends in the quite contrary setting up formes and divisions and opinions and rents and contentions about your carnall water scattering abroad in your Imaginations But theirs was gathering in the Spirit so that is plaine that which you have set up is but Imaginations for it is not according to the letter being erred from it both in the call manner and the end for what is taken up from the letter must in all things follow the patterne he being cursed that adds or diminishes And from the Spirit thou canst not have it who art not baptized with the Holy Ghost thy selfe nor having any immediate Call from the person of Christ So with the light of Christ in thy conscience take notice what thou art doing and repent Cease to keep people in blindnesse and from going right on their way by thy tradititions and if Paul said they were bewitched who had begun in the Spirit and was led back by such into Circumcision though a true command of God then read thy work who art drawing people into thy tradition which as thou performest it was never commanded of God nor ever so practised by any who had the Spirit of God So if you who are called Anabaptists consider your unfaithfulnesse to your principles as to that which should have led you out of conformity to the world and their worships and fashions and seriously weigh in the light of Christ you may see more cause to repent of your sticking in that of water both out of the form and power then of accusing others for neglect who are going on in obedience to the Spirit bearing witnesse against all the worlds wickednesse vaine worships and customes and yours among the rest From a lover of your soules but not of your deceit J N The fourth Error thou chargest us with is because we bear Testimony to the Light of Christ which lighteth every one that cometh into the world and that this spirituall light of Christ is sufficient to teach in all the wayes of God and lead to God and this is counted and Error and yet in thy 36 page doth confesse the sufficiency thereof andthis is it that is our teaching which is witnessed in plaines by Christ the Prophets Apostles as John 1. 9. Joh. 8. 12. Joh. 5. 33. and herein thou canst not slander us but Christ and the holy men of God must suffer with us But sayest thou it is true that Christ is the

must wait for another to perform to which thou art an enemy in thy Book for that which leads to tell a lie doth not lead to repent of it That is he wherewith thou a long time hast been a Sayer and not a Doer And if to the light of Christ in thy conscience thou doe not turn which shewes thee this thy wickednesse by it to be led to repentance to the Pit thou wilt goe in this thy wickednesse notwithstanding thy fained Promise So the many lies and false accusations which doth not so much strike at the truth I passe by as not willing to multiply words to clear that which our practise proves innocent in all places through the Nation where the light is followed and either that must clear us or words will not so let the Lord who is our life plead for us Onely some few Queries I shall Propound to lay open Truth and error to which if thou be as ready to answer in simplicity as thou hast been to slander in subtilty that which lies hid may sooner be brought to light The Queries are as followeth I. WHose Spirit is that which men understands the Scriptures with and tryes Spirits with who are without the Spirit of God seeing thou affirms that a man may understand Scriptures and try Spirits without the Spirit of God and whether that triall be not it which condemns the just or hath God set up such a tryer to judge yea or no II. Seeing thou confesseth Christ to be the true light and that he lighteth every man that cometh into the world but denyes that light to be within shew in plainnesse where he doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world and not within and how they come by it and seeing thou sayest every man hath it how have they it and not within III. Seeing thou confesseth that the Heathen hath a light that reproves them of sin but not within shew where it is what it is whether the light of Christ or no and how they came by it IV. Whether that which reproves the Heathen when they sin be the same that reproves thee when thou sins and the rest who call your selves believers and whether it be in the same place and of the same nature or wherein doth it differ as to place nature and operation V. Whether your light who call your selves believers be within you or no and if within how you came by it when you were in darknesse as the moving cause and if without how doth it enlighten you and not within and where doth it abide for you that is not in you VI. Whether that light which is not within can enlighten the heart and under standing whether the Gospel be not hid to all who have their hearts and minds blinded and whether it be not the work of the God of this world to blind hearts whether such as deny the light within and preach against it least people should believe in it be not in his work and Ministry yea or no VII What kind of faith thine is who hast denyed that faith that is the gift of God and how thou came by it which God did not give thee and whether that faith which is not of God be not of the Devill yea or no VIII Did ever any of the Saints professe a faith which they received not of God and whether thy contention be for the faith once delivered to the Saints and if so from whom hadst thou it seeing thou denyes it to be the gift of God IX What faith is that which pleads for sin and preaches against perfection that believes that they can never be free from six nor come to perfection while they are in this world show the Saint that so believed and so preached X. Was not the end of Christs Ministry for perfecting the Saints and is not that Antichrist whose Ministry is against it or is Christs Ministry now changed against what it was XI Whether that faith that is not of God can receive the things of God or can be imputed for righteousnesse to him that hath it and is not his righteousnesse of himself whose faith is of himself or can it be otherwise if it be the righteousnesse of faith XII Whether he that hath not received the faith of God be not an Infidell or is he to be believed in matters of God and Christ and being of a false faith is it safe to believe what he saith against the Children of light XIII Whether it be not plain nonsense to say that Christ doth enlighten every one that comes into the world as thou doest confesse in thy Book and then to deny that light to be in that enlightens XIV Whether Paul was rightly called and endued to the Ministry who was not sent to Baptize and whether it was not a signe that John was decreasing and Christ increasing that being left out in Pauls Command who was called after Christ was offered up or cannot a man now be a Minister of Christ and not sent to Baptize XV. Seeing the last of Matthew is your strength for water baptism I ask whether one may not be baptized into the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost without being dipped in carnall water also whether all you dip in the water you doe baptize them into the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost if the first of these be yea and the latter no then I conclude carnall dipping is not the thing XVI Doth every one that reads the Bible hear the word of God or hath every one the word that hath a Bible and what difference is there betwixt the ministration of the letter now and that in the Jewes time both denying the light and the faith which is the gift of God and will this save now without the ministration of the Spirit more then in their dayes XVII Whether that righteousnesse that a man reads of in the letter sets himself to doe the like without that faith which is the gift of God or the leading of the light of Christ the ministration of the Spirit be the righteousnesse of faith or selfe righteousnesse Now I appear to every honest heart that I have not proposed these Queries out of curiosity or to dive into things above the measure of a Christian but that which every one ought to know who professes not so high as thou doest So that if it be not thy subtilty least thou shouldest be discovered thou needest not be letted from answering in plainnesse that thy faith may be known what it is thou contends for that so simple ones may not be beguiled with fained suttlery instead of faith for if the faith be false that profession stinks and the Professor thereof is not to be believed in whatever he saith touching Religion FINIS

excluded Thy thirteenth errour is that James Nayler said that none can come unto God or Christ but who come to perfection whereby it seems thou denies God or Christ to be perfection for be they granted to be perfection then none can come to them but they come to perfection But how blinde thou art who calls this an Errour is easily seen thy faith and thy doctrine who preaches against perfection but the Ministers of Christ preached to present every man perfect which thou preaches gainst Eph. 4. 11 12 13. Col. 1. 28. So we rather chuse the Apostles doctrine which standing in the faith of God which believes perfection though by the Infidells it be called Errour then imbrace a doctrine of Devills that doth not believe perfection neither was there ever any of the children of God in thy work pleading against perfection and for sin dwelling in them Thy fourteenth Errour is that I say that at all seasons whensoever the Saints either eat or drink they were to have Communion with the body and blood of Christ in their eating and drinking I say this must needs be counted an Error with the belly Gods of the world who deny the faith of Christ and so know no word in them to sanctifie the Creature such is not like to have Communion with Christ but with the lust who serve their own bellies who are at the table of Devills are not like to have Communion with the Lord but are observers of times and carnall things and therefore to such it must needs be counted an Errour so often as they eat and drink thereof to doe it in remembrance of him till he come if this be received for a truth the Devill knows there is no place for the Lust and so would hold it for an errour that he might feed without fear Thy fifteenth Errour is that James Parnell denyed all Baptismes but that of the holy Ghost so that to own the Baptism of Christ and to deny all else with thee is counted an errour but did not the Apostle erre also who said we are all baptized into one body by one Spirit and witnessed one faith and one baptisme and said he was not sent to baptize and this he witnessed who had the faith of Christ which thy faith counts an Errour And thou goes about to prove your water by questions and crooked consequences as from Circumcision and the like but cannot find one Scripture that doth command it with water after Christ sufferings or otherwise then Johns ministry wherein all may see your foundation who say the Scripture is your Rule but cannot find one plaine Scripture for that which you so highly worship and would impose upon all as a matter of salvation but must flye to your consequences to hold up that which you would make people believe is an everlasting Ordinance for which you can shew no command neither from Letter nor Spirit Moses in all his house left his Ordinances upon better grounds then consequences and meanings and that he which is much more faithfull should come short is not believed by those that know him but suppose that any doe yet own that forme of Baptisme used by the Disciples in John Ministration with that they must deny your tradition which misseth theirs both in Call Manners and Find as I have often proved for he that faith the Letter is his rule must not misse it in any thing for it they break it in one he is guilty of all much more you that misse in the maine Thy sixteenth errour is that we preach that every Man in the world hath a light within him and yet one of us thou sayest asked a Minister of the Nation whether he had that light which doth enlighten every one that comes into the world so that to ask a question which is a known Truth to prove the party asked with thee must be an Errour and this thou hoyseth up with great swelling words as though it were the greatest Errour that ever was in the world and sayes herein we are the sad spectacle of Gods spirituall judgements that ever any age hath heard of and many such loud exclamations against us for this great Errour But what thinks thou of Christ who askt the Disciples whom they said he was and yet knew they had this light in them which revealed him to be the Son of God hadst thou then lived and heard it he should not have escaped thy censure besides many other questions that he asked well known to him before the asking of them And thou goes on heaping up a deal of confusion and accuses some body but names not who sor saying that they might as well have burt the Scripture as his writing being given forth by the same Spirit the Scriptures were and by this thou sayest all that thou hast said is justified to which I say the works of the Spirit are known to be the same in their severall measures as ever they was neither is it to be more undervalued then formerly but how that Man saying so if any such there was doth justifie all thy lyes and false accusations cast upon us is a slender proof yet if we will believe thee it justifies all Thy seaventeenth Errour is thy lye where thou sayes we study and devise deceitfull tearmes that look with two faces like the Oracles of the Heathen Gods And the substance of this slander is because that Farnsworth when he was charged to say that Paul was not converted when he spoke those words in the 7 of the Romans he denyes that he doth affirme any such thing and this is counted a great Errour for sayes thou it was a negative as though it was not an affirmative to affirme there is not such a thing as well as to affirme there is such a thing and this thou aggravates as a great offence whereby thou shews in plainnesse to all that are honest that thou canst find nothing of matter against us therefore thy mischievous minde having a mind to slander hath the thing to make out of thine own bosome wherewithall to doe it Thy eighteenth Errour is that which thou call our lying First in that we say we are perfect and this is a lie of thy own and shall rest upon thy head till thou prove we have so said The second is that we say we are immediately sent of God which is a truth in them who are so sent so to say and the lie is thine own till thou prove the contrary The third lie is that one Fox said the world did not know his Name and yet after saith known by the Name of George Fox I say the Saints who have over come have a new name which none knows but he that hath it yet all the knowledge the men have of them is by a carnall name and this is true and witnessed onely the lye is in thy own ignorance The fourth lye is that Edward Burrough said his Book was sealed with the Spirit and this is