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water_n baptize_v dip_v sprinkle_v 3,693 5 10.9320 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A45830 Infants-baptism disproved and believers baptism proved, or, An answer to several arguments propounded in a paper by Mr. Alexander Kellie, minister at Giles Criple Gate London, and sent to Mr. Jeremiah Ives of the said parish and is now published for the general information of all, but particularly for the satisfaction of many of the inhabitants of the said parish who have desired it, wherein the arguments for infant-baptism are examined and disproved by the said Jeremia Ives. Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674. 1655 (1655) Wing I1100; ESTC R31669 39,332 78

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so_o far_o engage_v they_o in_o the_o christian_a religion_n that_o all_o the_o philosophical_a deceit_n of_o man_n shall_v never_o be_v able_a to_o turn_v they_o from_o it_o and_o where_o be_v so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n to_o your_o purpose_n i_o must_v needs_o say_v that_o out_o of_o all_o the_o text_n you_o have_v press_v i_o can_v see_v water_n enough_o to_o sprinkle_v upon_o the_o face_n of_o one_o child_n and_o whereas_o you_o tell_v i_o mr._n kellie_n i_o may_v have_v save_v you_o this_o labour_n and_o myself_o too_o if_o i_o have_v mind_v the_o book_n of_o dr._n feat_o mr._n martial_n mr._n gerce_a mr._n church_n mr._n cobbet_n mr._n baxter_n mr._n cook_n mr._n blake_n mr._n fuller_n mr._n sidenham_n beside_o many_o other_o excellent_a man_n who_o have_v write_v in_o latin_a as_o hossius_n calvin_n beza_n bullinger_n and_o all_o the_o best_a light_n in_o the_o christian_a world_n full_a and_o clear_a against_o i_o mr._n ive'_v to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o you_o may_v 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the_o contrary_a that_o infant_n be_v not_o baptize_v because_o they_o be_v not_o where_o call_v believer_n you_o now_o face_n about_o as_o though_o all_o be_v not_o safe_a in_o the_o rear_n and_o go_v back_o to_o the_o text_n in_o esay_n 54._o sure_o you_o fear_v all_o the_o hay_n and_o stubble_n that_o you_o build_v upon_o that_o text_n be_v set_v on_o fire_n by_o the_o answer_n that_o i_o give_v to_o it_o at_o your_o house_n and_o now_o you_o be_v return_v to_o quench_v it_o but_o you_o must_v know_v that_o your_o cloud_n of_o argument_n be_v without_o water_n as_o i_o shall_v make_v appear_v upon_o examination_n first_o you_o say_v mr._n kellie_n that_o teach_v must_v be_v inward_a and_o effectual_a in_o isa_n 54.13_o 1_o because_o it_o have_v the_o great_a peace_n of_o god_n go_v along_o with_o it_o from_o whence_o you_o argue_v thus_o they_o that_o have_v the_o great_a peace_n of_o god_n go_v along_o with_o their_o teach_n be_v inward_o and_o effectual_o teach_v but_o all_o the_o 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to_o a_o second_o reason_n to_o prove_v the_o teach_n in_o isa_n 54._o to_o be_v inward_a and_o effectual_a teach_n which_o what_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v do_v it_o prove_v that_o this_o be_v to_o infant_n in_o the_o cradle_n of_o eight_o day_n old_a but_o we_o have_v before_o show_v the_o contrary_a that_o it_o be_v not_o mean_v of_o such_o but_o however_o let_v we_o hear_v your_o other_o argument_n which_o be_v mr._n kellie_n that_o if_o it_o be_v not_o inward_a and_o effectual_a teach_n it_o be_v rather_o a_o judgement_n threaten_v than_o a_o mercy_n promise_v mr._n ive'_v belike_o then_o by_o this_o kind_n of_o reason_n when_o god_n teach_v
so_o of_o any_o infant_n that_o they_o have_v not_o a_o natural_a birth_n for_o though_o solomon_n say_v we_o do_v not_o know_v how_o the_o child_n be_v form_v in_o the_o womb_n yet_o he_o deny_v not_o but_o they_o be_v all_o form_v in_o the_o womb_n but_o you_o as_o you_o do_v not_o know_v how_o so_o you_o confess_v you_o do_v not_o know_v who_o be_v spiritual_o thus_o bear_v but_o be_v not_o this_o strange_a that_o you_o shall_v spend_v so_o many_o argument_n as_o you_o do_v a_o little_a before_o to_o prove_v that_o all_o infant_n of_o believer_n be_v inward_o and_o effectual_o teach_v draw_v and_o come_v to_o christ_n and_o that_o now_o you_o shall_v tell_v we_o that_o some_o of_o they_o be_v not_o call_v till_o the_o last_o hour_n and_o if_o you_o shall_v think_v to_o excuse_v the_o matter_n by_o say_v that_o you_o mean_v some_o unbeliever_n child_n be_v not_o call_v till_o then_o that_o will_v not_o do_v because_o you_o tell_v i_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o your_o paper_n that_o it_o be_v for_o believer_n infant_n that_o you_o plead_v and_o the_o whole_a scope_n of_o your_o paper_n speak_v forth_o the_o same_o thing_n and_o not_o one_o word_n of_o unbeliever_n child_n etc._n etc._n you_o tell_v we_o that_o some_o that_o we_o baptize_v be_v not_o effectual_o teach_v till_o afterward_o to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o justifi_v we_o if_o they_o do_v profess_v so_o to_o be_v when_o they_o be_v baptize_v for_o with_o the_o heart_n man_n do_v believe_v and_o with_o the_o mouth_n confession_n be_v make_v to_o salvation_n rom._n 10.10_o and_o so_o it_o will_v justify_v you_o if_o that_o there_o be_v a_o confession_n of_o faith_n make_v at_o the_o time_n you_o do_v baptize_v and_o a_o life_n conformable_a thereunto_o which_o be_v all_o that_o we_o be_v to_o look_v after_o because_o it_o be_v god_n work_n to_o search_v the_o heart_n and_o not_o we_o you_o proceed_v to_o prove_v if_o you_o can_v that_o infant_n be_v disciple_n thus_o mr._n kellie_n they_o to_o who_o we_o 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as_o john_n mean_v 1_o john_n 2.1_o little_a child_n these_o thing_n i_o write_v that_o you_o sin_v not_o and_o ver_fw-la 12._o i_o write_v unto_o you_o little_a child_n because_o your_o sin_n be_v forgive_v i_o say_v if_o you_o do_v mean_v such_o i_o do_v grant_v the_o minor_a proposition_n viz._n that_o to_o such_o little_a one_o we_o may_v give_v a_o cup_n of_o water_n in_o the_o name_n of_o a_o disciple_n but_o this_o i_o suppose_v can_v be_v your_o meaning_n in_o as_o much_o as_o you_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o infant_n be_v disciple_n and_o there_o be_v nothing_o to_o that_o purpose_n in_o the_o text_n however_o i_o take_v notice_n of_o your_o wander_v up_o and_o down_o in_o say_v sometime_o infant_n be_v disciple_n not_o tell_v we_o whether_o you_o mean_v believer_n or_o unbeliever_n infant_n sometime_o that_o all_o believer_n infant_n be_v disciple_n and_o sometime_o that_o some_o be_v not_o call_v till_o the_o last_o hour_n only_o we_o take_v for_o grant_v what_o you_o say_v at_o first_o that_o you_o will_v undertake_v for_o believer_n child_n if_o so_o then_o suppose_v that_o the_o little_a one_o here_o in_o mat._n 10._o last_o be_v understand_v of_o infant_n yet_o how_o do_v you_o prove_v that_o they_o be_v believer_n infant_n but_o it_o will_v be_v a_o task_n too_o hard_o for_o you_o to_o do_v either_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o you_o go_v on_o to_o tell_v we_o mr._n kellie_n that_o you_o have_v five_o thing_n more_o to_o say_v for_o infant_n discipleship_n the_o first_o be_v this_o if_o that_o infant_n may_v be_v call_v his_o servant_n though_o they_o do_v no_o service_n leu._n 21.41_o 42._o then_o they_o may_v be_v call_v disciple_n though_o they_o do_v not_o appear_v to_o learn_v but_o they_o may_v be_v call_v god_n servant_n though_o they_o do_v he_o no_o service_n ergo._n they_o may_v be_v call_v disciple_n though_o they_o do_v not_o appear_v to_o learn_v mr._n ive'_v i_o answer_v first_o by_o deny_v the_o major_a for_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v 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answer_v first_o that_o infant_n of_o eight_o day_n old_a be_v not_o call_v god_n servant_n any_o where_o in_o scripture_n 2_o as_o to_o the_o text_n urge_v in_o favour_n to_o this_o leu._n 25.41_o 42._o if_o you_o compare_v it_o with_o vers_n 39_o you_o will_v see_v it_o be_v not_o speak_v to_o prove_v infant_n in_o the_o cradle_n god_n servant_n but_o rather_o to_o show_v that_o because_o the_o nation_n of_o israel_n that_o he_o bring_v out_o of_o egypt_n be_v his_o servant_n therefore_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v slave_n one_o to_o another_o and_o sell_v as_o bond_n man_n which_o they_o never_o do_v use_v to_o do_v to_o child_n in_o the_o cradle_n 3_o again_o can_v god_n speak_v many_o thing_n concern_v child_n as_o that_o they_o be_v his_o servant_n etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o not_o speak_v of_o child_n in_o their_o infancy_n may_v not_o a_o man_n as_o well_o say_v because_o israel_n be_v bid_v to_o teach_v their_o child_n that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o teach_v infant_n of_o eight_o day_n old_a and_o because_o josh_n 22.10_o it_o be_v say_v the_o child_n of_o gad_n build_v a_o altar_n therefore_o the_o infant_n of_o gad_n be_v mason_n and_o stone-cutter_n and_o because_o it_o be_v say_v of_o the_o virtuous_a woman_n prov._n 31.20_o her_o child_n rise_v up_o and_o call_v her_o bless_a therefore_o her_o little_a infant_n of_o eight_o day_n old_a do_v call_v her_o bless_a be_v not_o this_o as_o good_a reason_n as_o that_o which_o you_o bring_v viz._n because_o god_n say_v the_o israelite_n child_n be_v his_o servant_n therefore_o their_o infant_n of_o eight_o day_n old_a be_v his_o servant_n 2_o you_o go_v on_o and_o tell_v we_o that_o mr._n kellie_n peter_n in_o act_n 15.10_o call_v infant_n disciple_n mr._n ive'_v be_v you_o not_o ashamed_a to_o speak_v such_o a_o notorious_a falsity_n do_v that_o text_n say_v that_o peter_n call_v infant_n disciple_n oh_o what_o a_o mercy_n be_v it_o that_o we_o can_v read_v sure_o if_o we_o can_v not_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v that_o peter_n say_v you_o shall_v have_v the_o five_o penny_n of_o our_o estate_n for_o preach_v as_o say_v he_o say_v infant_n be_v disciple_n now_o indeed_o peter_n blame_v they_o for_o put_v the_o yoke_n of_o circumcision_n upon_o disciple_n but_o this_o do_v no_o more_o prove_v infant_n to_o be_v disciple_n then_o if_o a_o man_n will_v say_v the_o clergy_n be_v oppress_v by_o tax_n therefore_o every_o one_o that_o be_v oppress_v by_o tax_n be_v a_o clergyman_n for_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o that_o you_o bring_v the_o disciple_n be_v circumcise_v therefore_o all_o that_o
mr._n kellie_n that_o infant_n may_v be_v baptize_v because_o they_o be_v holy_a which_o you_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v from_o 1_o cor._n 7.14_o mr._n ive'_v i_o do_v deny_v that_o the_o holiness_n of_o these_o infant_n give_v a_o right_a to_o baptism_n for_o by_o the_o same_o rule_n the_o believer_n wife_n must_v be_v baptize_v though_o she_o be_v a_o unbeliever_n for_o the_o same_o text_n say_v that_o the_o believer_n unbelieving_a wife_n be_v sanctify_v and_o may_v i_o not_o as_o well_o say_v that_o all_o that_o be_v sanctify_v in_o any_o sense_n may_v be_v baptize_v as_o you_o may_v say_v because_o infant_n in_o some_o sense_n be_v holy_a therefore_o they_o may_v be_v baptize_v you_o further_o urge_v gal._n 2.15_o which_o i_o believe_v you_o do_v mistake_v yourself_o in_o as_o any_o body_n may_v see_v that_o shall_v but_o compare_v the_o text_n with_o the_o matter_n in_o hand_n to_o as_o little_a purpose_n you_o urge_v dan._n 8.24_o where_o the_o text_n say_v the_o king_n of_o fierce_a countenance_n shall_v destroy_v the_o holy_a people_n therefore_o the_o infant_n be_v holy_a may_v not_o a_o man_n as_o well_o say_v from_o dan._n 12.7_o where_o it_o be_v say_v he_o shall_v scatter_v the_o power_n of_o the_o holy_a people_n that_o therefore_o the_o infant_n have_v power_n the_o like_a answer_n serve_v to_o dan._n 11.8_o 8_o you_o say_v mr._n kellie_n they_o be_v include_v in_o baptism_n to_o who_o all_o the_o promise_n of_o baptism_n belong_v but_o the_o promise_n of_o baptism_n belong_v to_o infant_n act_n 7.38_o 39_o mr._n ive'_v i_o shall_v say_v nothing_o to_o this_o but_o leave_v you_o to_o read_v over_o act_v 7.38_o 39_o and_o consider_v if_o the_o least_o promise_n be_v make_v relate_v to_o baptism_n in_o any_o of_o those_o verse_n but_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v you_o mean_v act_n 2.38_o 39_o which_o be_v as_o little_a to_o your_o purpose_n as_o the_o other_o where_o the_o apostle_n bid_v the_o jew_n repent_v and_o be_v baptize_v where_o note_n that_o if_o their_o be_v abraham_n natural_a seed_n will_v have_v give_v they_o a_o right_n to_o baptism_n what_o need_n have_v they_o to_o have_v repent_v in_o order_n to_o their_o baptism_n he_o further_o say_v that_o the_o promise_n be_v to_o they_o and_o their_o child_n to_o that_o i_o have_v former_o say_v and_o prove_v that_o in_o the_o scripture_n dialect_n many_o thing_n may_v belong_v to_o a_o man_n child_n that_o have_v no_o respect_n to_o his_o infant_n in_o the_o state_n of_o their_o infancy_n for_o christ_n tell_v the_o same_o people_n mat._n 23.27_o that_o he_o will_v have_v gather_v their_o child_n together_o etc._n etc._n can_v any_o man_n think_v that_o christ_n here_o mean_v their_o infant_n in_o the_o cradle_n in_o like_a manner_n the_o apostle_n conclude_v that_o the_o promise_n be_v to_o they_o and_o their_o child_n he_o plain_o show_v that_o he_o do_v not_o mean_v their_o infant_n but_o that_o god_n promise_n shall_v be_v make_v good_a to_o their_o child_n upon_o the_o same_o term_n that_o they_o be_v to_o they_o which_o be_v upon_o their_o repentance_n faith_n and_o baptism_n and_o therefore_o he_o afterward_o urge_v that_o it_o be_v not_o only_o to_o they_o and_o their_o child_n but_o to_o all_o that_o be_v after_o off_o even_o as_o many_o as_o the_o lord_n our_o god_n shall_v call_v and_o now_o you_o conclude_v and_o say_v mr._n kellie_n thus_o much_o for_o the_o proof_n of_o infant_n baptism_n from_o scripture_n precept_n mr._n ives_n which_o if_o all_o the_o scripture_n you_o have_v urge_v have_v any_o one_o precept_n for_o infant_n baptism_n i_o shall_v leave_v to_o judgement_n you_o now_o come_v in_o the_o last_o place_n to_o prove_v infant_n baptism_n from_o scripture_n practice_n and_o your_o first_o be_v mr._n kellie_n that_o they_o be_v all_o viz._n the_o infant_n of_o the_o israelite_n baptize_v to_o moses_n in_o the_o cloud_n and_o in_o the_o sea_n 1_o cor._n 10.2_o psal_n 77.17_o mr._n ive'_v 1_o what_o be_v this_o to_o prove_v infant_n be_v baptize_v to_o christ_n if_o one_o shall_v grant_v that_o in_o a_o sense_n they_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v baptize_v to_o moses_n 2_o how_o do_v this_o say_n they_o be_v baptize_v to_o moses_n prove_v that_o infant_n be_v baptize_v to_o moses_n if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v baptize_v to_o moses_n because_o they_o also_o come_v through_o the_o sea_n with_o their_o father_n then_o i_o demand_v in_o the_o last_o place_n whether_o a_o man_n may_v not_o as_o well_o say_v that_o their_o cattle_n be_v baptize_v to_o moses_n because_o they_o also_o come_v through_o the_o sea_n with_o moses_n let_v he_o that_o be_v least_o among_o you_o judge_v if_o this_o text_n prove_v that_o infant_n be_v baptize_v in_o water_n in_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n because_o that_o infant_n come_v through_o the_o red_a sea_n with_o moses_n your_o second_o instance_n for_o the_o practice_n of_o infant_n baptism_n be_v lay_v down_o in_o a_o down_o right_o lame_a argument_n thus_o mr._n kellie_n the_o apostle_n practise_v what_o they_o be_v to_o preach_v but_o they_o be_v to_o preach_v all_o that_o christ_n command_v mat._n ult_n ult_n but_o christ_n command_v that_o they_o shall_v suffer_v little_a child_n to_o come_v to_o he_o and_o not_o to_o forbid_v they_o that_o he_o may_v lay_v his_o hand_n on_o they_o and_o bless_v they_o therefore_o the_o apostle_n practise_v this_o in_o suffer_v little_a child_n to_o come_v to_o the_o ordinance_n and_o not_o forbid_v they_o to_o that_o of_o baptism_n mr._n ive'_v true_o i_o can_v wish_v that_o this_o argument_n have_v be_v bear_v a_o little_a soon_o that_o so_o it_o may_v have_v be_v at_o oxford_n or_o cambridge_n the_o last_o comencement_n because_o it_o be_v in_o a_o new_a mood_n and_o figure_n that_o be_v never_o hear_v of_o before_o in_o any_o of_o the_o school_n it_o may_v be_v it_o may_v have_v purchase_v for_o you_o the_o good_a degree_n of_o a_o prevaricator_n against_o the_o next_o year_n but_o however_o i_o fear_v a_o worse_a thing_n that_o it_o be_v still_o bear_v and_o have_v no_o strength_n in_o it_o for_o may_v you_o not_o as_o well_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n in_o all_o age_n be_v command_v to_o bring_v ass_n to_o christ_n because_o when_o he_o be_v upon_o the_o earth_n he_o do_v command_v they_o so_o to_o do_v because_o he_o have_v need_n of_o one_o for_o so_o say_v the_o text_n mat._n 21.2_o 3_o 6._o as_o say_v that_o because_o christ_n when_o he_o be_v in_o person_n upon_o the_o earth_n do_v bid_v his_o disciple_n to_o let_v infant_n come_v to_o he_o that_o therefore_o this_o be_v part_n of_o their_o commission_n when_o christ_n leave_v the_o earth_n but_o 2_o may_v you_o not_o from_o hence_o as_o well_o command_v some_o of_o your_o parish_n to_o go_v and_o fetch_v you_o a_o ass_n and_o bring_v he_o to_o you_o as_o you_o may_v from_o this_o text_n enjoin_v they_o to_o bring_v their_o child_n to_o you_o for_o baptism_n because_o they_o be_v enjoin_v to_o come_v to_o christ_n for_o a_o blessing_n what_o command_n be_v this_o to_o bring_v my_o child_n to_o you_o because_o christ_n command_v they_o to_o be_v bring_v to_o he_o any_o more_o than_o it_o be_v for_o i_o to_o bring_v my_o horse_n or_o my_o ass_n to_o you_o because_o christ_n command_v one_o shall_v be_v bring_v to_o he_o but_o if_o this_o be_v a_o good_a argument_n to_o justify_v infant_n baptism_n i_o wonder_v that_o any_o clergy_n man_n of_o your_o opinion_n will_v go_v one_o foot_n but_o more_o have_v be_v speak_v to_o this_o elsewhere_o and_o fore_o i_o shall_v proceed_v to_o your_o three_o instance_n of_o the_o practice_n of_o infant_n baptism_n and_o that_o be_v say_v you_o mr._n kellie_n whole_a house_n city_n and_o family_n be_v baptize_v and_o for_o proof_n hereof_o you_o cite_v act_n 8.12_o where_o the_o text_n say_v that_o when_o they_o believe_v phillip_n preach_v the_o thing_n concern_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n they_o be_v baptize_v both_o man_n and_o woman_n mr._n ive'_v what_o man_n will_v urge_v this_o text_n but_o he_o that_o be_v mind_v to_o quit_v the_o field_n of_o this_o controversy_n to_o prove_v the_o apostle_n baptize_v the_o samaritan_n infant_n you_o say_v the_o whole_a city_n of_o samaria_n be_v baptize_v therefore_o you_o will_v make_v we_o believe_v they_o baptize_v infant_n when_o the_o text_n say_v no_o such_o thing_n but_o that_o they_o that_o receive_v the_o word_n be_v baptize_v and_o not_o the_o whole_a city_n as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o again_o you_o urge_v mr._n kellie_n that_o the_o family_n of_o cornelius_n and_o his_o near_a kindred_n be_v baptize_v act_v 10.24_o 44_o 48._o and_o the_o household_n of_o stephanus_n 1_o cor._n 1.16_o the_o jailor_n and_o all_o