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water_n baptize_v dip_v sprinkle_v 3,693 5 10.9320 5 false
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A07435 A confutacion of that popishe and antichristian doctryne, whiche mainteineth ye ministracyon and receiuing of the sacrament under one kind made dialoge-wise betwene the prieste and the prentyse by Gracyous Menewe. Menewe, Gracious.; Becon, Thomas, 1512-1567, attributed name. 1555 (1555) STC 17821; ESTC S109986 28,308 98

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wythout either stole or phanell or to omytte any crossing or such lyke smal tryfles which neuerthelesse are nothynge els but mere inuencions of men abominable vanites Why doe we not rather take hede that we omit none of those thynges that God hath commaunded and his sonne Iesus Chryste instituted The very heathen theyr selues wer greatly affraied that the Pryest should in theyr holye ceremonies eyther stacker or faile in one worde and if any suche thing had happened they counted it to be an exceadyng greate faute and in a maner irremissible And ye thinke it to bee nothynge to breake the Lords institucion Prieste Hath not the churche of Chryst much greater liberte than the Synagoge had Therfore we may much better chaunge and alter thyngs in the ceremonyes thā the auncient fathers myghte For we are not as bonde seruauntes vnder the lawe but as free men vnder grace Whyche thynge appeareth to be moste true by thys that the churche at thys presente doeth not dyppe them ouer the eares y t are baptysed as thys worde baptizei doeth signifie but ouer sprinkleth them onely or washeth them And yet it is not to bee doubted but that they whyche bee so ouer sprynkled or washed are truly baptysed For Ciprian beeynge asked counsell whether they that were baptized when they wer drawing to their death oughte to be taken for true baptized Chrystians For they lying in theyr beddes beeing oppressed with sickenesse cold nether be dipped ouer the eares nor washed but onely ouer sprīkled wherefore they mighte seme not to haue been baptized this mā of god did aunswere that thei had receaued their ful baptisme More ouer haue not the wordes of baptizme ben other whyles chaūged For we reade in the Actes of the Apostles that baptizme was ministred in the name of our Lorde Iesu Chryst whereas notwithstanding the Lorde in the gospell commaunded hys disciples to baptize in the name of the father of y e sōne and of the holi gost Finally what say ye of the order y t Chryste hath prescribed Is it obserued kept Did not Christ cōmaunde to teach first than to baptize But nowe we doe baptize first the infantes and afterwardes teache thē when thei be of age And shal we sai now that the churche dooeth amisse in al these thynges God forbidde Prentise As touching your firste argument master person wherein ye say that we haue more libertie than the Israelites had and that therefore it is lawefull for vs to chaunge and alter thinges in ceremonyes which liberte the childrē of Israell had not I answer to y t the Chrystyan lybertye dooeth not consiste in thys that we maye chaunge and alter the institucion of Chryste but it lyeth and consisteth in thys that Chryste hath broughte and reduced many laboreus payneful and darke ceremonies into fewe that are easye and playne Besides that we are by the power of the spirite made wyllynge and ready to obeye for we are not compelled by the law but do most willingly whatsoeuer gods word doeth commaunde vs in his true religion Therefore they can not conclude that that they woulde but rather are driuen to the contrary for if we be so deliuered frō the yoke and heauy burden of y e lawe that we haue only fewe easye and playne ceremonyes it wer a thyng intollerable and much blame worthy if we would not fulfyll perfourme thē without any grudging or murmuring or if we would alter any thyng in them seyng they be so fewe so easye and so playne Pryest Yet ye haue not aunswered to that whiche I brought against you touching the chaunge and alteracion that is in baptisme Prētise I knowledge and confesse that y e auncyente fathers when they could by the age or health of the persons dipped them ouer eares and head in the water which dipping was prefigurated and shadowed by the goinge of the children of Israel through the reade sea yet it is neither necessarie nor hath any expresse commaundement in y e worde of god When it is vsed it hath a goodly significacion For when we are dipped in therby it is signified y t we dye with Christ and by the cōmyng out of the water we are admonyshed that we rise with him vnto euerlasting life Howebeit as we haue sayd this signification is not necessarie I meane so necessary but that it may be omitted for the true property and nature of baptisme is our clensing from our sinnes Wherfore S. Paul in the Epistle to the Ephesians writeth that Chryst hath cleansed his congregation and churche with the lauer of water through the worde This purginge or clensinge from synne is moste properly signified and represēted by baptisme whether we be dipped in or ouer sprinkeled or by any meane at all washed in the water Nor this word baptize in doth not onely signifie to be dipped in but also to be washed by any maner of meane moreouer it is not al one to chaunge the maner of washing and to take all the whole awaye For in them that are ouer sprīkled or washed the element of baptisme that is to soye the water is kept and vsed and hath his signification We doe not contende supersticiously how we must drynke of the cup whether we muste drinke litel or muche so that both partes of the sacrament doe remayne hole it is inough In tymes passed they vsed to drinke of the mistical cuppe wyth quilles whych thynge the byshop of Rōe doth yet vse at thys present tyme some were wonte to dip their bread into the mistical wyne as it is written in the Ecclesiastycall historye of Eusebius But I would wyshe al thynges to be do that are moste consonaunte and agreable to the instituciō of Christ. Pryeste But what saye ye of the worde whych the Apostles haue chaunged in baptysme vsyng not that prescribed fourme that was appoynted then by Chryste in the gospell Prentyse Some there be that graunt that the wordes were altered and chaunged but that the fourme and maner that the Apostels did vse was all one with y t ▪ that Chryste had prescribed them in his gospel For say they in the name of Iesu Christ ar the names of the three diuine persons comprehended that is to saye of the father of the sonne and of the holy gost And Ireneus in hys 4. booke cōtra valētinianos doeth plainely testifie and witnesse the same saying in the name of Chryst the thre persons are vnderstanded for this worde Chryst dooeth signifie annoynted wherein is shewed both he that annoynteth he that is annoynted and the vnction it selfe he that is annoynted is the sonne he that annoynteth is the father the vnctiō is the holi goste Wherby it appeareth that in thys alteracion nothing at al is taken awaye Pryest So may we right wel say that in this alteracion which is so sore impugned spokē agaynst in this sacramēt nothīg