Selected quad for the lemma: water_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
water_n	baptise_v	baptism_n	spirit_n	3,793	5	6.0565	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78137	A reply to the frivolous and impertinent ansvver of R.B. to the discourse of P.B. In which discourse is shewed, that the baptisme in the defection of Antichrist, is the ordinance of God, notwithstanding the corruptions that attend the same, and that the baptisme of infants is lawfull, both which are vindicated from the exceptions of R.B. and further cleared by the same authour. There is also a reply, in way of answer to some exceptions of E.B. against the same.	Barbon, Praisegod, 1596?-1679.	1643 (1643)	Wing B755; Thomason E96_20; ESTC R5151	48,062	73

against springling or washing they produce that Rom. 6. Collo 2. 12. of Buriall with Christ which sprinkling they judge cannot import or hold forth To which I in my discourse answered that sprinkling or powreing water on the face doth hold our Buriall and resurrection also and indeed I judge it doth and so understanding men will account whatsoever R. B. thinketh to the contrary to this purpose I alleadged that in the 10. Corinth of being baptised in the cloud and Sea and the Scripture telleth us they went over on drie ground to this R. B. answereth not for indeed he could not they were dipped they were buried as saith the word But here hee inferreth that by this reason they should not bee sprinkled Why because they had not water on them But R. B. may minde how they had the Sea on either side and the Cloud over them and were in the Water That the Spirit accounteth Baptisme as it doth Sprinkling and washing as well as dipping so as Water is necessary for baptising but the use of it may be divers some more neere and some more remote from the written manner and full scope of the ordinance and yet have the substance of the Ordinance in it And if R. B. could make the sea divi●e as Moses did and should carry one of his disciples into it they might be so Baptized as they were I shall beare his derision and proceed The Baptisme in the Cloud and Sea urged pleaseth him not he therefore seeketh by a question to intrap first he would know whether I hold it the Baptisme of Christ instituted Mat. 28. I let R. B. know I hold it the Baptisme of Christ as the spiritual meat and drink were that are there also spoken of and that it held forth and had an eye to that Baptisme after ordained by Christ Matth. 28. as the spirituall bread and drink there did c. And held forth the foode in the Lords supper the substance of all which was and is Christ so as it is a verie pertinent instance and example what ever R B. thinketh But he hath a farther demande wherein he abuseth himselfe and me and the reader with one of his accustomed Fables fathering a thing which was never my iudgement nor practise about sprinkling I let R B. know I hold water necessary in Baptisme I● he can divide the sea let him so Baptize I shall not finde fault with him his inference is vain about voluntary Religion and will not help his Baptisme garments at all To that by me objected that the forceing Baptisme thus to hold forth buriall we lose that which it holdeth forth equally with buriall Namely the sprinkling of the Consci●nce in the blood of Christ Esay 52. 15. Heb. 10. 2● Ezek. 36. 25. Heb. 12. 24. And the Laver of Regeneration and washing in the blood of Christ that blessed fountain Acts 22. 16. Heb. 10. 21. 1. Corin. 6. 11. Re. 1. 5. R. B. answereth denying that sprinkling in the blood of Christ is required to be held forth in Baptisme to which I say it is an easie thing to denie a matter never so plain I shall refer the matter to the judgement of the Godly wise whether the outward washing in Baptisme doth not hold out every way of cleansing of the soule in the blood of the Covenant Baptisme is the outward way of washing away sin It was said to Saul Acts 22. 16. Be baptized and wash away thy sin c. Now sprinkling with which R. B. is so much offended is a way of inward washing away of sin as before and if R. B. please to consider the Scriptures again in speciall that in the 36. Ezek. He may if he be not overswayed by preiudice happily change his minde so as to see that sprinkling both outwardly and inwardly hath in it the nature of washing to cleanse And though hee like an unwise man hath againe censured my iudgement practise about this matter he hath condemned me being innocent for I tell him once againe I hold washing more fully according to the nature of the ordinance but sprinkling being a way of washing to cleanse cannot be altogether reiected he hath something further here which because I doe not understand his aime and drift being unwilling to father any thing on him but what he holdeth I passe it by and the rather because it is but the repeating of the scriptures before set forth he being mightily taken with his sence of them pleasing himselfe with his owne conceipt that sprinkling for washing or cleansing is borrowed from the shadowes under the Law and so no whit to the purpose and so he would put by ●he manner as no way significant but onely the matter blood sure the spirit knew how to teach if we knew how to learne I will sprinkle cleane water upon them and they shall be cleane againe the blood of sprinkling and our Conscience sprinkled Is there nothing in these and the like but onely so as to be borrowed from the Law and that is all I suppose R. B. is deceived at the least But now to that other particular of washing in the blood of Christ which I said was also lost by thus inforcing dipping He answereth that I am much mistaken Why how appeareth it in the iudgement of the spirit he saith dipping is washing so I say in like manner is sprinkling also as before Ezek 36. But if dipping be washing then washing may be dipping in a spiritual sence sure it is where is R. B. then But though dipping be a way of washing yet all dipping is not washing nor so intended a thing may be dipped in water for other ends as for instance a Smith dippeth his hot iron in water and intendeth no washing he saith to washing by the way of dipping much water is required Indeed totall dipping must have some quantitie but lesse then Iordan or Enon rivers may suffice to dip a person over head and eares he saith here it doth follow that as dipping the whole man c. it doth lively represent our buriall c. so doing it in much water must import a full resemblance of our washing in the blood of Christ Zach. 13. 1. To which I say sure our Lord did not thinke so of the quantitie of either water or washing as R. B. doth Peter was indeed some way of his minde it appeareth our Lord tooke a Basen and he told Peter that would needs be washed all over as they will be by dipping that he that is washed needs not but to be washed in one part c. R. B. here sure forgot Iohn 13. himselfe the manner in the case of sprinkling though much inforced he would have to import nothing onely the matter but in the case of dipping he will have the maner as essentiall as the matter And the quantitie of the element he will have as significant as the matter to wit water it selfe But though he be partiall it being his owne cause it must

be Davids eating of the Shew-bread will stand them in stead Indeed in the case of extreame hunger to preserve life it might in exstravagant courses such as cannot be warranted by the Scriptures some have done as here R. B. doth catch at Davids example upon some case of necessitie to doe that which is not lawfull this is their case he saith and hereby he saith they justifie their practise but how well let all men judge But sure R. B. forgot himselfe in this or otherwise he dissenteth from others of his judgement There were baptised persons in Holland of a hundred yeeres discent and more to have repaired thither were more easie then for the Eunuch to Acts 8. have gone to Jerusalem as easie it was for them to have gone thither as for our Lord to have gone over Jordan to Matth. 3. 13. John If R. B. question their baptisme it is much happily he may because they practise not totall dipping then sure it is likely the restoration is but of two or three yeeres standing a very rare businesse and how rare are baptised persons he concludeth there needs no new commission to raise it againe we may beleeve him if we will All the rest of what I wrote concerning this matter R. B. passeth over not finding as is likely what to answer in speciall that which I declared concerning corruption not making a nullitie he concludeth this matter with saying their practise is not like that of Nadab and Abihu and setting children against persons of yeeres he would make as if his opponent were against the baptising of beleevers or persons of yeeres because he holdeth the baptising of Infants a fallacie and fond conceit as if such of old as should hold the circumcision of males at eight dayes must needs be against the circumcision of men of yeeres But I must tell R. B. that it was unlawfull to rircumcise those of the ten tribes when they were of yeeres that had beene circumcised though in Apostacie in their infancie And this is indeed the true case betweene R. B. and his opponent if he could or would see it New things are very pleasing and many are much taken with them as is R. B. with dipping about which he taketh great paines produceth many Scriptures and would seeme to be so strong as nothing is able to withstand him First he saith I am greatly offended he doth but surmise for he cannot gather it out of my discourse he sheweth what dipping he meaneth total dipping of the whole man over head and eares he pretendeth this is the commandement of God wherein the 28. of Matthew this now must serue the turne as true and false did before but sure it is a rare thing to gather it thence for if dipping were there injoyned yet sure totall dipping cannot be It is not said goe dip all nations totally or over head and eares certainely this totall dipping is some voluntary religion Cor. 12. Rom. 6. Matth. 28. 10. Mar. 1. 9. Mat. 3. 16. Ioh. 3. 23. Act. 8. 38. having a shew of wisdome as mens owne wayes have he quoteth many places and sundry examples but sure the man is as one that looketh through a greene-glasse he seeth all of the same colour all and every of these Scriptures and examples are for totall dipping the whole man in matter and burying of him under water and I appeale to the judgement of the indifferent Reader whether there be any the least syllable to any such purpose no marvell he should check me for not beleeving of it and so confidently to father his fancie and erroneous conceit on the holy Scriptures and which is more to hold all the Churches and Christians in the World to be unbaptised but those two or three that have been thus totally dipped he is in a high straine if he can keep it I hold not dipping so necessary but that a person baptised by sprinkling must needs therefore be esteemed unbaptised I indeed acknowledge I hold washing the maine as before I declared in my discourse and washing by the way of dipping or by the way of sprinkling to have in them the substance of the Ordinance being wayes of washing he is pleased to take notice of the Reasons I alleadged which is first that springling can be but a defect in the quantity of the Element I said it is a wonderfull thing a nullity should follow thereof and is it not to this he saith that he wondereth any should esteeme that an Ordinance of Christ which Christ never ordained but this is only to beg the matter unproved but the 28. Ma. 19. serveth still Christ hee saith never ordained sprinkling but dipping therefore sprinkling in Baptisme is none of Christs Ordinance and so by consequence a nullitie Thus easily in his conceit and fully in his opinion he hath made the Baptisme of not a few persons in the world If I should make the like against his totall dipping he would not receive it though it be his owne Christ never ordained totall dipping by an unbaptised person Ergo it is none of Christs but a nullity and by consequence R. B. is yet unbaptised He taketh notice of a second reason I set forth and that is of placing the substance of an Ordinance in the Criticknesse of a word to this he answereth that he placeth the substance of every Ordinance in its conformity to the word so as defect and corruption make a nullity I suppose he holdeth but he propoundeth a case for discovery sprinkling is no more to bee esteemed Gods Ordinance then to prick the finger was to bee esteemed Circumcision and he that would not take that for Circumcision might as well bee accounted a Critick as hee that will not take sprinkling for Baptisme sure R. B. hath but little aime in his paralell sprinkling at the most is but a defect in the quantitie of the Element for all this I will make a case and leave the Reader to judge of it if any unskilfull Circumciser should have left some little part of the foreskin through oversight should it have been a nullity and no circumcision I suppose nay so if any shall misse in washing by shortnesse in the quantity of the Element yet it may bee Christs Ordinance notwithstanding for that such a defect or corruption doth not make a nullity thereof And if any dipper in R. B. his way should through some neglect or other accident not dip the Crowne of the head as well as all the rest of the body under water I suppose R. B. had but little reason if he should not account it true Baptisme in his way notwithstanding he proceedeth and here I note how fairely I dealt with them and how fouly hee hath dealt with me I set downe their opinion so right as that hee doth not goe about to mend it he for the most part fathereth this and the other falsity upon me and by change of phrases altereth often the whole matter for dipping in Baptising and