five or six Thousand pounds a year as it is probable you have and keep forty Servants and at length by your neglect and the industry and thrift of your Domesticks you sell one Thousand to your Steward another to your Clerk of the Kitchen another to your Bayliff till all were gone can you believe that these Servants when they had so good Estates of their own and you nothing left to give them would continue to live with you and to do their service as before It is just so with a whole Kingdom In our Ancestors times most of the Members of our House of Commons thought it an honour to retain to some great Lord and to wear his blew Coat And when they had made up their Lord's Train and waited upon him from his own House to the Lords House and made a Lane for him to enter and departed to sit themselves in the Lower House of Parliament as it was then and very justly called can you think that any thing could pass in such a Parliament that was not ordered by the Lords Besides these Lords were the King 's great Council in the Intervals of Parliaments and were called to advise of Peace and War and the latter was seldom made without the consent of the major part if it were not they would not send their Tenants which was all the Militia of England besides the King's tenth part Can it be believed that in those days the Commons should dislike any thing the Lords did in the Intervals or that they would have disputed their Right to receive Appeals from Courts of Equity if they had pretended to it in those days or to mend Money-bills And what is the reason but because the Lords themselves at that time represented all their Tenants that is all the People in some sort and although the House of Commons did Assemble to present their Grievances yet all great Affairs of high Importance concerning the Government was Transacted by the Lords and the War which was made to preserve it was called the Barons Wars not the War of both Houses for although in antienter times the word Baron were taken in a larger sense and comprehended the Francklins or Freemen yet who reads any History of that War shall not find that any mention is made of the concurrence of any assembly of such men but that Simon Monford Earl of Leicester and others of the great ones did by their Power and Interest manage that contest Now if this Property which is gone out of the Peerage into the Commons had passed into the King's hands as it did in Egypt in the time of Ioseph as was before said the Prince had had a very easie and peaceable reign over his own Vassals and might either have refused justly to have Assembled the Parliament any more or if he had pleased to do it might have for ever managed it as he thought fit But our Princes have wanted a Ioseph that is a wise Councellor and instead of saving their Revenue which was very great and their expences small and buying in those Purchases which the vast expences and luxury of the Lords made ready for them they have alienated their own Inheritance so that now the Crown-Lands that is the publick Patrimony is come to make up the interest of the Commons whilest the King must have a precarious Revenue out of the Peoples Purses and be beholding to the Parliament for his Bread in time of Peace whereas the Kings their Predecessors never asked Aid of his Subjects but in time of War and Invasion and this alone though there were no other decay in the Government is enough to make the King depend upon his People which is no very good condition for a Monarchy Noble Ven. But how comes it to pass that other Neighbouring Countries are in so settled a State in respect of England does their Property remain the same it was or is it come into the hands of the Prince You know you were pleased to admit that we should ask you en passant something of other Countries Eng. Gent. Sir I thank you for it and shall endeavour to satisfie you I shall say nothing of the small Princes of Germany who keep in a great measure their ancient bounds both of Government and Property and if their Princes now and then exceed their part yet it is in time of Troubles and War and things return into their right Chanel of Assembling the several States which are yet in being every where But Germany lying so exposed to the Invasion of the Turks on the one side and of the French on the other and having ever had enough to do to defend their several Liberties against the encroachments of the House of Austria in which the Imperial dignity is become in some sort Hereditary if there had been something of extraordinary power exercised of late years I can say Inter arma silent leges but besides their own particular States they have the Diet of the Empire which never fails to mediate and compose things if there be any great oppresson used by Princes to their subjects or from one Prince or State to another I shall therefore confine myself to the three great Kingdoms France Spain and Poland for as to Denmark and Sweden the first hath lately chang'd its Government and not only made the Monarchy Hereditary which was before Elective but has pull'd down the Nobility and given their Power to the Prince which how it will succeed time will shew Sweden remains in point of Constitution and Property exactly as it did anciently and is a well-Governed Kingdom The first of the other three is France of which I have spoken before and shall onely add That though it be very true that there is Property in France and yet the Government is Despotical at this present yet it is one of those violent States which the Grecians called Tyrannies For if a Lawfull Prince that is one who being so by Law and sworn to rule according to it breaks his Oaths and his Bonds and reigns Arbitrarily he becomes a Tyrant and an Usurper as to so much as he assumes more than the Constitution hath given him and such a Government being as I said violent and not natural but contrary to the Interest of the people first cannot be lasting when the adventitious props which support it fail and whilst it does endure must be very uneasie both to Prince and People the first being necessitated to use continual oppression and the latter to suffer it Doct. You are pleased to talk of the oppression of the People under the King of France and for that reason call it a violent Government when if I remember you did once to day extol the Monarchy of the Turks for well-founded and natural Are not the people in that Empire as much oppressed as in France Eng. Gent. By no means unless you will call it oppression for the grand Seignior to feed all his People out of the Product of his
Nos que valemos tanto camo nos y podemos mos os eligimos nuestro Rey conque nos guardeys nuestros Fueros y Privilegios y si no no. That is We who are as good as you and more Powerful do chuse you our King upon condition that you preserve our Rights and Priviledges and if not not Notwithstanding all this Philip the Second being both King of Castile and Arragon picked a quarrel with the latter by demanding his Secretary Antonio Perez who fled from the King's displeasure thither being his own Country and they refusing to deliver him it being expresly contrary to a Law of Arragon that a Subject of that Kingdom should be against his will carried to be tryed elsewhere the King took that occasion to Invade them with the Forces of his Kingdom of Castile who had ever been Rivals and Enemies to the Aragoneses and they to defend themselves under their Iusticia who did his part faithfully and couragiously but the Castilians being old Soldiers and those of Arragon but County-Troops the former prevailed and so this Kingdom in getting that of Castile by a Marriage but an Age before lost its own Liberty and Government for it is since made a Province and Governed by a Vice-Roy from Madrid although they keep up the formality of their Cortes still Doct. No man living that knew the hatred and hostility that ever was between the English and Scots could have imagined in the years 1639 and 1640 when our King was with great Armies of English upon the Frontiers of Scotland ready to Invade that Kingdom that this Nation would not have assisted to have brought them under but it proved otherwise Eng. Gent. It may be they feared That when Scotland was reduced to slavery and the Province pacified and Forces kept up there That such Forces and greater might have been imployed here to reduce us into the same condition an apprehension which at this time sticks with many of the common People and helps to fill up the measure of our Fears and Distractions But the visible reason why the English were not at that time very forward to oppress their Neighbours was the consideration That they were to be Invaded for refusing to receive from hence certain Innovations in matters of Religion and the worship of God which had not long before been introduced here and therefore the People of this Kingdom were unwilling to perpetuate a Mungrel Church here by imposing it upon them But I do exceedingly admire when I read our History to see how zealous and eager our Nobility and People here were anciently to assert the right of our Crown to the Kingdom of France whereas it is visible that if we had kept France for we Conquered it intirely and fully to this day we must have run the fate of Arragon and been in time ruined and opprest by our own Valour and good Fortune a thing that was foreseen by the Macedonians when their King Alexander had subdued all Persia and the East who weighing how probable it was that their Prince having the possession of such great and flourishing Kingdoms should change his Domicilium Imperii and inhabit in the Centre of his Dominions and from thence Govern Macedon by which means the Grecians who by their Vertue and Valour had Conquered and subdued the Barbarians should in time even as an effect of their Victories be opprest and tyrannized over by them and this precautious foresight in the Greeks as was fully believed in that Age hastened the fatal Catastrophe of that great Prince Doct. Well I hope this consideration will fore-arm our Parliaments That they will not easily suffer their eyes to be dazled any more with the false glory of Conquering France Noble Ven. You need no great cautions against Conquering France at this present and I believe your Parliaments need as little admonition against giving of Money towards new Wars or Alliances that fine wheedle having lately lost them enough already therefore pray let us suffer our Friend to go on Eng. Gent. I have no more to say of Foreign Monarchies but only to tell you That Poland is both Governed and Possessed by some very great Persons or Potentates called Palatines and under them by a very numerous Gentry for the King is not onely Elective but so limited that he has little or no Power but to Command their Armies in time of War which makes them often chuse Foreigners of great Fame for Military Exploits and as for the Commonalty or Country-men they are absolutely Slaves or Villains This Government is extreamly confused by reason of the numerousness of the Gentry who do not always meet by way of representation as in other Kingdoms but sometimes for the choice of their King and upon other great occasions collectively in the Field as the Tribes did at Rome which would make things much more turbulent if all this body of Gentry did not wholly depend for their Estates upon the favour of the Palatines their Lords which makes them much more tractable I have done with our Neighbours beyond Sea and should not without your command have made so long a digression in this place which should indeed have been treated of before we come to speak of England but that you were pleased to divert me from it before However being placed near the Portraicture of our own Country it serves better as contraria juxta se posita to illustrate it but I will not make this Deviation longer by Apologizing for it and shall therefore desire you to take notice That as in England by degrees Property came to shift from the few to the many so the Government is grown heavier and more uneasie both to Prince and People the complaints more in Parliament the Laws more numerous and much more tedious and prolix to meet with the tricks and malice of men which works in a loose Government for there was no need to make Acts verbose when the great Persons could presently force the Execution of them for the Law of Edward the First for frequent Parliaments had no more words than A Parliament shall be holden every year whereas our Act for a Triennial Parliament in the time of King Charles the First contained several sheets of paper to provide against a failer in the Execution of that Law which if the Power had remained in the Lords would have been needless for some of them in case of intermission of Assembling the Parliament would have made their Complaint and Address to the King and have immediately removed the obstruction which in those days had been the natural and easie way but now that many of the Lords like the Bishops which the Popes make at Rome in partibus infidelium are meerly grown Titular and purchased for nothing but to get their Wives place it cannot be wondred at if the King slight their Addresses and the Court-Parasites deride their Honourable undertakings for the safety of their Country Now the Commons succeeding as was said
advise you to go take the Air this afternoon in your Coach Noble Ven. I shall think it very long till the morning come But before you go pray give me leave to ask you something of your Civil War here I do not mean the History of it although the World abroad is very much in the dark as to all your Transactions of that time for want of a good one but the grounds or pretences of it and how you fell into a War against your King Eng. Gent. As for our History it will not be forgotten one of those who was in Employment from the Year 40. to 60. hath written the History of those 20 Years a Person of good Learning and Elocution and though he be now dead yet his Executors are very unwilling to publish it so soon and to rub a Sore that is not yet healed But the Story is writ with great Truth and Impartiality although the Author were engaged both in Councils and Arms for the Parliaments side But for the rest of your Demand you may please to understand that our Parliament never did as they pretended make War against the King for he by Law can do no Wrong and therefore cannot be quarrelled with The War they declared was undertaken to rescue the King's Person out of those Mens hands who led him from his Parliament and made use of his Name to levy a War against them Noble Ven. But does your Government permit that in case of a disagreement between the King and his Parliament either of them may raise Arms against the other Eng. Gent. It is impossible that any Government can go further than to provide for its own Safety and Preservation whilst it is in being and therefore it can never direct what shall be done when it self is at an end there being this difference between our Bodies Natural and Politick that the first can make a Testament to dispose of things after his death but not the other This is certain that where-ever any two Co-ordinate Powers do differ and there be no Power on Earth to reconcile them otherwise nor any Umpire they will de facto fall together by the Ears What can be done in this Case de jure look into your own Country-man Machiavell and into Grotius who in his Book De jure Belliac Pacis treated of such matters long before our Wars As for the ancient Politicians they must needs be silent in the Point as having no mixt Governments amongst them and as for me I will not rest my self in so slippery a Place There are great disputes about it in the Parliaments Declarations before the War and something considerable in the King's Answers to them which I shall specifie immediately when I have satisfied you how our War begun which was in this manner The Long Parliament having procured from the King his Royal Assent for their Sitting till they were dissolved by Act and having paid and sent out the Scottish Army and disbanded our own went on in their Debates for the settling and mending our Government the King being displeased with them for it and with himself for putting it out of his Power to dissolve them now the business which they pretended for their Perpetuation was quite finished takes an unfortunate Resolution to accuse five principal Men of the Commons House and one of the Peers of High-Treason which he prosecuted in a new unheard-of way by coming with armed Men into the Commons House of Parliament to demand their Members but nothing being done by reason of the absence of the five and Tumults of discontented Citizens flocking to White-Hall and Westminster the King took that occasion to absent himself from his Parliament Which induced the Commons House to send Commissioners to Hampton-Court to attend his Majesty with a Remonstrance of the State of the Kingdom and an humble Request to return to his Parliament for the Redressing those Grievances which were specified in that Remonstrance But the King otherwise Counselled goes to Windsor and thence Northwards till he arrived at York where he summons in the Militia that is the Trained-Bands of the County and besides all the Gentry of which there was a numerous Appearance The King addressed himself to the latter with Complaints against a prevailing Party in Parliament which intended to take the Crown from his Head that he was come to them his loving Subjects for Protection and in short desired them to assist him with Moneys to defend himself by Arms. Some of these Gentlemen petitioned His Majesty to return to his Parliament the rest went about the Debate of the King's Demands who in the mean time went to Hull to secure the Magazine there but was denied Entrance by a Gentleman whom the House had sent down to prevent the seizing it who was immediately declared a Traytor and the King fell to raising of Forces which coming to the Knowledge of the House they made this Vote That the King seduced by Evil Counsel intended to levy War against his Parliament and People to destroy the Fundamental Laws and Liberties of England and to introduce an Arbitrary Government c. This was the first time they named the King and the last For in all their other Papers and in their Declaration to Arm for their Defence which did accompany this Vote they name nothing but Malignant Counsellors The Kings Answer to these Votes and this Declaration is that which I mentioned wherein His Majesty denies any intention of invading the Government with high Imprecations upon himself and Posterity if it were otherwise and owns that they have Right to maintain their Laws and Government This is to be seen in the Paper it self now extant and this Gracious Prince never pretended as some Divines have done for him that his Power came from God and that his Subjects could not dispute it nor ought he to give any Account of his Actions though he should enslave us all to any but him So that our War did not begin upon a point of Right but upon a matter of Fact for without going to Lawyers or Casuists to be resolved those of the People who believed that the King did intend to destroy our Liberties joyned with the Parliament and those who were of opinion that the prevailing party in Parliament did intend to destroy the King or dethrone him assisted vigorously His Majesty with their Lives and Fortunes And the Question you were pleased to ask never came for both parties pretended and believed they were in the right and that they did fight for and defend the Government But I have wearied you out Noble Ven. No sure Sir but I am infinitely obliged to you for the great care you have taken and still have used to instruct me and beg the continuance of it for to morrow morning Eng. Gent. I shall be sure to wait upon you at nine a Clock but I shall beseech both of you to bethink your selves what to offer for I shall come with a design to learn
and the next Successour cannot have a better Game to play nor a better Adversary to deal with than one who leaps in over the Heads of almost all the Protestant Princes Families abroad besides some Papist who are greater and when we have been harrassed with Wars and the miseries that accompany it some few years you shall have all these fine People who now run after him very weary of their new Prince I would not say any thing to disparage a Person so highly born and of so early merit but this I may say That if a Lawful Title should be set on foot in his favour and a thousand Dutch Hosts and such like should swear a Marriage yet no sober Man that is not blinded with prejudice will believe That our King whom none can deny to have an excellent understanding would ever Marry a Woman so much his Inferiour as this great Persons Mother was and this at a time when his Affairs were very low and he had no visible or rational hopes to be restored to the Possession of his Kingdoms but by an assistance which might have been afforded him by means of some great Foreign Alliance Well but to leave all this do these Men pretend that the Duke of Monmouth shall be declared Successour to the Crown in Parliament with the King 's Concurence or without it if without it you must make a War for it and I am sure that no Cause can be stated upon such a point that will not make the Assertors and Undertakers of it be condemned by all the Politicians and Moralists of the World and by the Casuis t s of all Religions and so by consequence it is like to be a very unsuccesful War If you would have this declar'd with the King's Consent either you suppose the Royal assent to be given when the King has his liberty either to grant it or not grant it to Dissolve the Parliament or not Dissolve it without ruine or prejudice to his Affairs If in the first Case it is plain he will not grant it because he cannot do it without confessing his Marriage to that Duke's Mother which he hath already declared against in a very solemn manner and caused it to be Registred in Chancery and which not only no good Subject can chuse but believe but which cannot be doubted by any rational person for it would be a very unnatural and indeed a thing unheard of that a Father who had a Son in Lawful Matrimony and who was grown to perfection and had signalized himself in the Wars and who was ever intirely beloved by him should disinherit him by so solemn an asseveration which must be a false one too to cause his Brother to succeed in his room And whereas it is pretended by some that His Majesties danger from his Brothers Counsels and Designs may draw from him something of this beside that they do not much Complement the King in this it is clear his Brother is not so Popular but that he may secure him when he pleases without hazard if there were any ground for such an apprehension But we must in the next place suppose that the King's Affairs were in such a posture that he could deny the Parliament nothing without very great mischief and inconvenience to himself and the Kingdom then I say I doubt not but the Wisdom of the Parliament will find out divers Demands and Requests to make to His Majesty of greater benefit and more necessary for the good of his People than this would be which draws after it not only a present unsetledness but the probable hazard of Misery and Devastation for many years to come as has been proved So that as on the one side the Parliament could not make a more unjustfiable War than upon this Account so they could not be Dissolved upon any occasion wherein the People would not shew less discontent and resentment and for which the Courtiers would not hope to have a better pretext to strive in the next Choice to make their Arts and endeavours more successful in the Election of Members more suitable to their Designs for the continuance of this present mis-government For if this Parliament do mis-spend the Peoples Mettle which is now up in driving that Nail which cannot go they must look to have it cool and so the Ship of this Commonwealth which if they please may be now in a fair way of Entering into a Safe Harbour will be driven to Sea again in a Storm and must hope for and expect another favourable Wind to save them and God knows when that may come Doct. But Sir there are others who not minding whether the Parliament will consider the Duke of Monmouths concern so far as to debate it do yet pretend that there is great reason to keep up the peoples affections to him and possibly to foment the opinion they have of his Title to the Crown to the end that if the King should die re infectà that is before such time as the Government is redrest or the Duke of York disabled by Law to Succeed the people might have an Head under whose Command and Conduct they might stand upon their Guard till they had some way secured their Government and Religion Eng. Gent. What you have started is not a thing that can safely be discoursed of nor is it much material to our design which is intended to speculate upon our Government and to shew how it is decayed I have industriously avoided the argument of Rebellion as I find it coucht in modern Polititians because most Princes hold that all Civil Wars in mixt Monarchies must be so and a Polititian as well as an Oratour ought to be Vir bonus so ought to discourse nothing how rational soever in these points under a peaceable Monarchy which gives him protection but what he would speak of his Prince if all his Councel were present I will tell you only that these Authors hold that nothing can be alledged to excuse the taking Arms by any people in opposition to their Prince from being Crimen Lesae Majestatis but a claim to a lawful Jurisdiction or Co-ordination in the Government by which they may judg of and defend their own Rights and so pretend to fight for and defend the Government for though all do acknowledg that Populi salus is and ought to be the most Supreme or Soveraign Law in the world yet if we should make private persons how numerous soever judg of Populi salus we should have all the Risings and Rebellions that should ever be made justified by that title as happened in France when La Guerre du bien publique took that name which was raised by the insatiable ambition of a few Noble men and by correspondency and confederacy with Charles Son of the Duke of Burgundy and other enemies to that Crown Doct. But would you have our people do nothing then if the King should be Assassinated or die of a natural death Eng. Gent.
Empire he may notwithstanding change the Government at the present and calling Parliaments no more administer it by force as it is done in France for some good time Eng. Gent. In France it has been a long Work and although that Tyranny was begun as has been said by Petition from the States themselves not to be assembled any more yet the Kings since in time of great Distraction have thoughr fit to convocate them again as they did in the Civil Wars thrice Once at Orleans and twice at Blois I would not repeat what I have so tediously discoursed of concerning France already but only to intreat you to remember that our Nation has no such poor and numerous Gentry which draw better Revenues from the King's Purse than they can from their own Estates all our country people consisting of Rich Nobility and Gentry of Wealthy Yeomen and of Poor Younger Brothers who have little or nothing and can never raise their Companies if they should get Commissions without their Elder Brothers Assistance amongst his Tenants or else with the free consent and desire of the People which in this case would hardly be afforded them But we will suppose there be idle People enough to make an Army and that the King has Money enough to Arm and Raise them And I will grant too to avoid tediousness although I do not think it possible that the people will at the first for fear receive them into their Houses and Quarter them against Law nay pay the Money which shall be by illegal Edicts imposed upon the Subjects to pay them Yet is it possible an Army can continue any time to enslave their own Country Can they resist the Prayers or the Curses of their Fathers Brothers Wives Mothers Sisters and of all Persons wherever they frequent Upon this Account all the Greek Tyrants were of very short Continuance who being in chief Magistracy and Credit in their Commonwealths by means of Soldiers and Satellites usurped the Soveraignty But did ever any of them excepting Dionysius leave it to his Son Who was driven out within less than a year after his Fathers death Many Armies of the Natives have destroyed Tyrannies So the Decemvirate was ruined at Rome the Tarquins expelled before that Our own Country has been a Stage even in our time where this Tragedy has been sufficiently acted for the Army after the War was done fearing the Monarchy should be restored again held Councils got Agitators and though there were often very severe Executions upon the Ring-leaders did at length by their perseverance necessitate their Officers to joyn with them having many good Head-pieces of the Party to advise them and so broke all Treaties And the Parliament too adhering to a small Party of them who consented to lay aside Kingly Government and afterwards drove them away too fearing they would continue to Govern in Oligarchy I am far from approving this way they used in which they broke all Laws Divine and Humane Political and Moral But I urge it only to shew how easily an Army of Natives is to be deluded with the Name of Liberty and brought to pull down any thing which their Ring-leaders tell them tends to enslaving their Country 'T is true this Army was afterwards cheated by their General who without their Knowledge much less Consent one Morning suddenly made himself Tyrant of his Country It as true that their Reputation not their Arms supported him in that State for some time but it is certain that they did very often and to the last refuse to be instrumental to levy Moneys though for their own pay and so he against his Will was fain to call from time to time Parliamentary Conventions And it is most certain that he did in the Sickness of which he died often complain that his Army would not go a step farther with him and de facto some Months after his death they did dethrone his Son and restore the Remainder of the old Parliament upon promise made to them in secret by the Demogogues of that Assembly that a Commonwealth should be speedily framed and setled Noble Ven. Sir I am satisfied that an Army raised here on a sudden and which never saw an Enemy could not be brought to act such high things for the Ruin of their own Government nor possibly would be any way able to resist the Fury and Insurrection of the people But what say you of a Forreign Army raised by your King abroad and brought over whose Officers and Soldiers shall have no Acquaintance or Relations amongst the people here Eng. Gent. All Forces of that kind must be either Auxiliaries or Mercenaries Auxiliaries are such as are sent by some Neighbour Prince or State with their own Colours and paid by themselves though possibly the Prince who demands them may furnish the Money These usually return home again when the occasion for which they were demanded is over But whether they do or not if they be not mixed and over-ballanced with Forces which depend upon the Prince who calls them but that the whole Weight and power lies in them they will certainly first or last seize that Country for their own Soveraign And as for Mercenaries they must be raised 't is true with the Money of the Prince who needs them but by the Authority and Credit of some Great Persons who are to Lead and Command them And these in all Occasions have made their own Commander Prince as F. Sforza at Milan drove out by this trick the Visconti ancient Dukes of that State and the Mamalukes in Egypt made themselves a Military Commonwealth So that the way of an Army here would either be no Remedy at all or one very much worse than the Disease to the Prince himself Noble Ven. Well Sir I begin to be of Opinion that any thing the King can grant the Parliament especially such a Parliament as this is which consists of Men of very great Estates and so can have no interest to desire Troubles will not be so inconvenient to him as to endeavour to break the Government by force But why may he not for this time by soothing them and offering them great Alliances abroad for the Interest of England and ballancing Matters in Europe more eaven than they have been and in fine by offering them a War with the French to which Nation they have so great a hatred lay them asleep and get good store of Money and stave off this severe Cure you speak of at least for some time longer Eng. Gent. There has been something of this done too lately and there is a Gentleman lies in the Tower who is to answer for it But you may please to understand that there is scarce any amongst the middle sort of People much less within the Walls of the House of Commons who do not perfectly know that we can have no Alliance with any Nation in the World that will signifie any thing to them or to our selves till our Government be
so whenever we enjoy this happiness to have the full benefit of those Constitutions which were made by our Ancestors for our safe and orderly living our Government is upon a right Basis therefore we must enquire into the Cause why our Laws are not executed when you have found and taken away that Cause all is well The Cause can be no other than this That the King is told and does believe that most of these great Charters or Rights of the people of which we now chiefly treat are against his Majesties Interest though this be very false as has been said yet we will not dispute it at this time but take it for granted so that the King having the Supreme execution of the Laws in his hand cannot be reasonably supposed to be willing to execute them whenever he can chuse whether he will do it or no it being natural for every man not to do any thing against his own Interest when he can help it now when you have thought well what it should be that gives the King a Liberty to chuse whether any part of the Law shall be currant or no you will find that it is the great Power the King enjoys in the Government when the Parliament hath discovered this they will no doubt demand of his Majesty an abatement of his Royal Prerogative in those matters only which concern our enjoyment of our All that is our Lives Liberties and Estates and leave his Royal Power entire and untoucht in all the other branches of it when this is done we shall be as if some great Heroe had performed the adventure of dissolving the Inchantment we have been under so many years And all our Statutes from the highest to the lowest from Magna Charta to that for burying in Woollen will be current and we shall neither fear the bringing in Popery nor Arbitrary Power in the Intervals of Parliament neither will there be any Dissentions in them all Causes of Factions between the Country and Court-party being entirely abolisht so that the People shall have no reason to distrust their Prince nor he them Doct. You make us a fine Golden Age but after all this will you not be pleased to shew us a small prospect of this Canaan or Country of rest will you not vouchsafe to particularize a little what Powers there are in the King which you would have discontinued would you have such Prerogatives abolished or placed elsewhere Eng. Gent. There can be no Government if they be abolished But I will not be like a Man who refuses to sing amongst his Friends at their entreaty because he has an ill Voice I will rather suffer my self to be laught at by you in delivering my small Judgment in this Matter but still with this protestation that I do believe that an Infinity of Men better qualifi'd than my self for such sublime Matters and much more the House of Commons who represent the Wisdom as well as the Power of this Kingdom may find out a far better way than my poor parts and Capacity can suggest The powers then which now being in the Crown do hinder the execution of our Laws and prevent by consequence our happiness and settlement are four The absolute power of making War and peace Treaties and Alliances with all Nations in the World by which means by Ignorant Councellours or Wicked Ministers many of our former Kings have made Confederations and Wars very contrary and destructive to the Interest of England and by the unfortunate management of them have often put the Kingdom in great hazard of Invasion Besides that as long as there is a distinction made between the Court-party and that of the Country there will ever be a Jealousie in the people that those wicked Councellours who may think they can be safe no other way will make Alliances with powerful Princes in which there may be a secret Article by which those Princes shall stipulate to assist them with Forces upon a short warning to curb the Parliament and possibly to change the Government And this apprehension in the People will be the less unreasonable because Oliver Cromwel the great Pattern of some of our Courtiers is notoriously known to have Inserted an Article in his Treaty with Cardinal Mazzarin during this King of France's Minority That he should be assisted with ten thousand Men from France upon occasion to preserve and defend him in his Usurped Government against His Majesty that now is or the People of England or in fine his own Army whose revolt he often feared The Second great Prerogative the King enjoys is the sole Disposal and Ordering of the Militia by Sea and Land Raising Forces Garisoning and Fortifying places Setting out Ships of War so far as he can do all this without putting Taxations upon the People and this not only in the Intervals of Parliament but even during their Session so that they cannot raise the Train-bands of the Country or City to Guard themselves or secure the Peace of the Kingdom The third point is That it is in His Majesties Power to Nominate and Appoint as he pleases and for what time he thinks fit all the Officers of the Kingdom that are of Trust or profit both Civil Military and Ecclesiastical as they will be called except where there is Ius Patronatus These two last Powers may furnish a Prince who will hearken to ill designing Councellours with the means either of Invading the Government by Force or by his Judges and other Creatures undermining it by Fraud Especially by enjoying the Fourth Advantage which is the Laying out and Imploying as he pleases all the Publick Revenues of the Crown or Kingdom and that without having any regard except he thinks fit to the necessity of the Navy or any other thing that concerns the Safety of the Publick So that all these Four great Powers as things now stand may be adoperated at any time as well to destroy and ruine the good Order and Government of the State as to preserve and support it as they ought to do Nob. Ven. But if you divest the King of these Powers will you have the Parliament sit always to Govern these Matters Eng. Gent. Sir I would not divest the King of them much less would I have the Parliament assume them or perpetuate their Sitting They are a Body more fitted to make Laws and punish the Breakers of them than to execute them I would have them therefore petition His Majesty by way of Bill that he will please to exercise these four great Magnalia of Government with the Consent of four several Councils to be appointed for that end and not otherwise that is with the Consent of the Major part of them if any of them dissent In all which Councils His Majesty or who he pleases to appoint shall preside the Councils to be named in Parliament first all the number and every Year afterwards a third part So each Year a third part shall go out
besides it is possible that if such a Regulation as this come in Debate amongst them the Parliament will reserve to it self the Approbation of the Great Officers as Chancellor Judges General Officers of an Army and the like and that such shall not have a settlement in those Charges till they are accordingly allowed of but may in the mean time exercise them As to particulars I shall always refer you to what the Parliament will judge fit to Order in the Case but if you have any thing to Object or to shew in general that some such Regulation as this cannot be effectual towards the putting our Distracted Country into better Order I shall think my self oblig'd to Answer you if you can have Patience to hear me and are not weary already as you may very well be Noble Ven. I shall certainly never be weary of such Discourse however I shall give you no further trouble in this matter for I am very fully satisfied that such Reformation if it could be compassed would not only Unite all Parties but make you very Flourishing at home and very Great abroad but have you any hopes that such a thing will ever come into Debate what do the Parliament-men say to it Eng. Gent. I never had any Discourse to this purpose either with any Lord or Member of the Commons house otherwise than as possibly some of these Notions might fall in at Ordinary Conversation For I do not intend to Intrench upon the Office of God to teach our Senatours Wisdom I have known some men so full of their own Notions that they went up and down sputtering them in every Mans Face they met some went to Great Men during our late troubles nay to the King himself to offer their Expedients from Revelation Two Men I was acquainted with of which one had an Invention to reconcile differences in Religion the other had a project for a Bank of Lands to lye as a Security for summs of Money lent both these were Persons of Great Parts and Fancy but yet so troublesome at all Times and in all Companies that I have often been forced to repeat an Excellent Proverb of your Country God deliver me from a man that has but one business and I assure you there is no Mans Reputation that I envy less than I do that of such Persons and therefore you may please to believe that I have not imitated them in scattering these Notions nor can I Prophesie whether any such Apprehensions as these will ever come into the Heads of those men who are our true Physitians But yet to answer your Question and give you my Conjecture I believe that we are not Ripe yet for any great Reform not only because we are a very Debauch'd People I do not only mean that we are given to Whoring Drinking Gaming and Idleness but chiefly that we have a Politique Debauch which is a neglect of all things that concern the publick welfare and a setting up our own private Interest against it I say this is not all for then the Polity of no Country could be Redrest For every Commonwealth that is out of order has ever all these Debauches we speak of as Consequences of their loose State But there are two other Considerations which induce me to fear that our Cure is not yet near The first is because most of the Wise and Grave Men of this Kingdom are very silent and will not open their Budget upon any terms and although they dislike the present Condition we are in as much as any Men and see the Precipice it leads us to yet will never open their Mouths to prescribe a Cure but being asked what they would advise give a shrug like your Country-men There was a very considerable Gentleman as most in England both for Birth Parts and Estate who being a Member of the Parliament that was called 1640. continued all the War with them and by his Wisdom and Eloquence which were both very great promoted very much their Affairs When the Factions began between the Presbyters and Independents he joyned Cordially with the latter so far as to give his Affirmative to the Vote of No Addresses that is to an Order made in the House of Commons to send no more Messages to the King nor to receive any from him Afterwards when an Assault was made upon the House by the Army and divers of the Members taken violently away and Secluded he disliking it though he were none of them voluntarily absented himself and continued retired being exceedingly averse to a Democratical Government which was then declared for till Cromwell's Usurpation and being infinitely courted by him absolutely refused to accept of any Employment under him or to give him the least Counsel When Cromwell was dead and a Parliament called by his Son or rather by the Army the chief Officers of which did from the beginning whisper into the Ears of the Leading Members that if they could make an honest Government they should be stood by as the Word then was by the Army This Gentleman at that time neither would be Elected into that Parliament nor give the least Advice to any other Person that was but kept himself still upon the Reserve Insomuch that it was generally believed that although he had ever been opposite to the late King 's coming to the Government again though upon Propositions yet he might hanker after the Restoration of His Majesty that now is But that Apprehension appeared groundless when it came to the pinch for being consulted as an Oracle by the then General Monk whether he should restore the Monarchy again or no would make no Answer nor give him the least Advice and de facto hath ever since kept himself from Publick Business although upon the Banishment of my Lord of Clarendon he was visited by one of the Greatest Persons in England and one in as much Esteem with His Majesty as any whatsoever and desired to accept of some great Employment near the King which he absolutely refusing the same Person not a Stranger to him but well known by him begged of him to give his Advice how His Majesty who desired nothing more than to unite all his People together and repair the Breaches which the Civil War had caused now my Lord Clarendon was gone who by his Counsels kept those Wounds open might perform that Honourable and Gracious Work but still this Gentleman made his Excuses And in short neither then nor at any time before or after excepting when he sate in the Long Parliament of the Year 40. neither during the distracted Times nor since His Majesty's Return when they seemed more reposed would ever be brought either by any private intimate Friend or by any Person in Publick Employment to give the least Judgment of our Affairs or the least Counsel to mend them though he was not shye of declaring his dislike of Matters as they went And yet this Gentleman was not only by repute and esteem a
was observed with Processions Sacrifices and Games till the time of the Roman's Dominion over them who encouraged it and ever till the change of Religion in Greece and Invasion of the Sarazens The Roman's having omitted in their Institution to provide for the fixing of Property and so the Nobility called Patricii beginning to take to themselves a greater share in the conquer'd Lands than had been usual for in the first times of the Commonwealth under Romulus and ever after it was always practised to divide the Lands equally amongst the Tribes this Innovation stirred up Licinius Stolo then Tribune of the People to propose a Law which although it met with much difficulty yet at last was consented to by which it was provided that no Roman Citizen of what degree soever should possess above five hundred Acres of Land and for the remaining part of the Lands which should be Conquer'd it was Ordered to be equally divided as formerly amongst the Tribes This found admittance after much oposition because it did provide but for the future no Man at that time being owner of more Lands than what was lawful for him to possess and if this law had been strictly observed to the last that glorious Commonwealth might have subsisted to this day for ought we know Doctor Some other Cause would have been the Ruine of it what think you of a Foreign Conquest Eng. Gent. Oh Doctor if they had kept their Poverty they had kept their Government and their Vertue too and then it had not been an easie matter to subdue them Quos vult perdere Iupiter dementat Breach of Rules and Order causes Division and Division when it comes to be Incurable exposes a Nation almost as much as a Tyrannical Government does The Goths and Vandals had they Invaded in those days had met with the same success which befell the Cymbri and the Teutones I must confess a Foreign Invasion is a Formidable thing when a Commonwealth is weak in Territory and Inhabitants and that the Invader is numerous and Warlike And so we see the Romans were in danger of utter ruine when they were first attacqued by the Gauls under Brennus The like hazzard may be fear'd when a Commonwealth is assaulted by another of equal Vertue and a Commander of equal Address and Valour to any of themselves Thus the Romans run the risk of their Liberty and Empire in the War of Hannibal but their Power and their Vertue grew to that heighth in that contest that when it was ended I believe that if they had preserved the Foundation of their Government entire they had been Invincible And if I were alone of this Opinion I might be ashamed but I am backt by the Judgement of your Incomparable Country-man Machiavil and no Man will condemn either of us of rashness if he first consider what small States that have stood upon right bottoms have done to defend their Liberty against great Monarchs as is to be seen in the example of the little Commonwealth of Athens which destroyed the Fleet of Xerxes consisting of a thousand Vessels in the Streights of Salamis and before the land army of Darius of three hundred thousand in the Plains of Marathon and drove them out of Greece for though the whole Confederates were present at the Battel of Platoea yet the Athenian Army singly under their General Miltiades gain'd that renowned Battel of Marathon Noble Ven. I beseech you Sir how was it possible or practicable that the Romans Conquering so many and so remote Provinces should yet have been able to preserve their Agrarian Law and divide all those Lands equally to their Citizens Or if it had been possible yet it would have ruin'd their City by sending all their Inhabitants away and by taking in Strangers in their room they must necessarily have had people less Vertuous and less Warlike and so both their Government and their Military Discipline must have been Corrupted for it is not to be imagined but that the People would have gone with their Families to the place where their Lands lay So that it appears that the Romans did not provide in the making and framing their first Polity for so great Conquests as they afterwards made Eng. Gent. Yes surely they did from their first beginning they were Founded in War and had neither Land nor Wives but what they fought for but yet what you object were very weighty if there had not been a consideration of that early For assoon as that great and wise People had subdued the Samnites on the East and brought their Arms as far as the Greek Plantations in that part of Italy which is now called the Kingdom of Naples and Westward had reduced all the Tuscans under their Obedience as far as the River Arnus they made that and the River Volturnus which runs by the Walls of Capua the two Boundaries of their Empire which was called Domicilium Imperii These were the ne plus ultra for what they Conquered between these two Rivers was all confiscated and divided amongst the Tribes the Rustick Tribes being twenty seven and the Vrbane Tribes nine which made thirty six in all The City Tribes were like our Companies in London consisting of Tradesmen The Country Tribes were divided like Shires and there was scarce any Landed Man who Inhabited in the City but he was written in that Tribe where his Estate lay so that the Rustick Tribes though they had all equal Voices were of far more Credit and Reputation than the Vrbane Upon the days of the Comtia which were very well known as many as thought fit amongst the Country Tribes came to give their Voices though every Tribe was very numerous of Inhabitants that lived in the City Now the Agrarian did not extend to any Lands conquered beyond this Precinct but they were lest to the Inhabitants they paying a Revenue to the Commonwealth all but those which were thought fit to be set out to maintain a Roman Colony which was a good number of Roman Citizens sent thither and provided of Lands and Habitations which being Armed did serve in the nature of a Citadel and Garison to keep the Province in Obedience and a Roman Pretor Proconsul or other Governour was sent yearly to Head them and brought Forces with him besides Now it was ever lawful for any Roman Citizen to purchase what Lands he pleased in any of these Provinces it not being dangerous to a City to have their People rich but to have such a Power in the Governing part of the Empire as should make those who managed the Affairs of the Commonwealth depend upon them which came afterwards to be that which ruined their Liberty and which the Gracchi endeavoured to prevent when it was too late For those Illustrious persons seeing the disorder that was then in the Commonwealth and rightly comprehending the Reason which was the intermission of the Agrarian and by consequence the great Purchases which were made by the Men of Rome who had
in the Property of the Peers and Church whose Lands five parts of six have been alienated and mostly is come into the same hands with those of the King and Peers have inherited likewise according to the course of nature their Power But being kept from it by the established Government which not being changed by any lawfull Acts of State remains still in being formally whereas virtually it is abolished so that for want of outward Orders and Provisions the people are kept from the Exercise of that Power which is faln to them by the Law of Nature and those who cannot by that Law pretend to the share they had do yet enjoy it by vertue of that Right which is now ceased as having been but the natural Effect of a Cause that is no longer in being and you know sublata causa tâ—llitur I cannot say that the greater part of the people do know this their condition but they find very plainly that they want something which they ought to have and this makes them lay often the blame of their unsetledness upon wrong causes but however are altogether unquiet and restless in the Intervals of Parliament and when the King pleases to assemble one spend all their time in Complaints of the Inexecution of the Law of the multiplication of an Infinity of Grievances of Mis-spending the Publick Monies of the danger our Religion is in by practices to undermine it and the State by endeavours to bring in Arbitrary Power and in questioning great Officers of State as the Causers and Promoters of all these Abuses in so much that every Parliament seems a perfect State of War wherein the Commons are tugging and contending for their Right very justly and very honourably yet without coming to a Point So that the Court sends them packing and governs still worse and worse in the Vacancies being necessitated thereunto by their despair of doing any good in Parliament and therefore are forced to use horrid shifts to subsist without it and to keep it off without ever considering that if these Counsellers understood their Trade they might bring the Prince and People to such an Agreement in Parliament as might repair the broken and shipwrack'd Government of England and in this secure the Peace Quiet and Prosperity of the People the Greatness and Happiness of the King and be themselves not only out of present danger which no other course can exempt them from but be Renowned to all Posterity Noble Ven. I beseech you Sir how comes it to pass that neither the King nor any of his Counsellors could ever come to find out the truth of what you discourse for I am fully convinced it is as you say Eng. Gent. I cannot resolve you that but this is certain they have never endeavoured a Cure though possibly they might know the Disease as fearing that though the Effects of a Remedy would be as was said very advantagious both to King and People and to themselves yet possibly such a Reformation might not consist with the Merchandize they make of the Princes Favour nor with such Bribes Gratuities and Fees as they usually take for the dispatch of all Matters before them And therefore our Counsellors have been so far from suggesting any such thing to their Master that they have opposed and quashed all Attempts of that kind as they did the worthy Proposals made by certain Members of that Parliament in the beginning of King Iames's Reign which is yet called the Undertaking Parliament These Gentlemen considering what we have been discoursing of viz. That our old Government is at an end had framed certain Heads which if they had been proposed by that Parliament to the King and by him consented to would in their Opinion have healed the Breach and that if the King would perform his part that House of Commons would undertake for the Obedience of the People They did believe that if this should have been moved in Parliament before the King was acquainted with it it would prove Abortive and therefore sent three of their number to his Majesty Sir Iames a Croft Grandfather or Father to the present Bishop of Hereford Thomas Harley who was Ancestor to the Honourable Family of that Name is Herefordshire and Sir Henry Nevill who had been Ambassador from Queen Elizabeth to the French King These were to open the matter at large to the King and to procure his leave that it might be proposed in Parliament which after a very long Audience and Debate that wise Prince consented to with a promise of Secresie in the mean time which they humbly begged of His Majesty However this took Vent and the Earl of Northampton of the House of Howard who ruled the Rost in that time having knowledg of it engaged Sir R. Weston afterwards Lord Treasurer and Earl of Portland to impeach these Undertakers in Parliament before they could move their matters which he did the very same day accompanying his Charge which was endeavouring to alter the established Government of England with so eloquent an Invective that if one of them had not risen and made the House acquainted with the whole Series of the Affair they must have been in danger of being impeached by the Commons but however it broke their designe which was all that Northampton and Weston desired and prevented Posterity from knowing any of the Particulars of this Reformation for nothing being moved nothing could remain upon the Journal So that you see our Predecessors were not ignorant altogether of our condition though the Troubles which have befallen this poor Kingdom since have made it much more apparent for since the Determination of that Parliament there has not been one called either in that King's Reign or his Son 's or since that hath not been dissolved abruptly whilst the main businesses and those of most concern to the publick were depending and undecided And although there hath happened in this Interim a bloody War which in the Close of it changed the whole Order and Foundation of the Polity of England and that it hath pleased God to restore it again by his Majesty's happy Return so that the old Government is alive again yet it is very visible that its deadly Wound is not healed but that we are to this day tugging with the same difficulties managing the same Debates in Parliament and giving the same disgusts to the Court and hopes to the Country which our Ancestors did before the Year 1640. whilst the King hath been forced to apply the same Remedy of Dissolution to his two first Parliaments that his Father used to his four first and King Iames to his three last contrary to his own visible Interest and that of his people and this for want of having Counsellors about him of Abilities and Integrity enough to discover to him the Disease of his Government and the Remedy which I hope when we meet to Morrow Morning you will come prepared to enquire into for the Doctor says he will
redressed and new modelled And therefore though there were an Army Landed in this Island yet that we must begin there before we are sit to repulse them or defend our selves And the fear and sense of this People universally is that if we should have any War either for our own Concerns or for those of our Allies whilst Matters remain as they do at home it would certainly come to this pass that either being beaten we should subject this Kingdom to an Invasion at a time when we are in a very ill condition to repell it or else if we were Victorious that our Courtiers and Counsellors in fragrante or as the French cry d'emble would employ that Mettle and good Fortune to try some such Conclusions at home as we have been discoursing of And therefore if any War should be undertaken without Parliament you should see the People rejoyce as much at any disaster our Forces should receive as they did when the Scots seized the four Northern Counties in 1639. Or before that when we were beaten at the Isle of Rhee or when we had any Loss in the last War with Holland And this Joy is not so unnatural as it may seem to those who do not consider the Cause of it which is the breach of our old Government and the necessity our Governors are under to make some new experiments And the fear we are in that any Prosperity may make them able to try them either with Effect or at least with Impunity Which Consideration made a Court-Droll say lately to His Majesty who seemed to wonder why his subjects hated the French so much Sir it is because you love them and espouse their Interest And if you would discover this Truth clearly you may please to make War with the King of France and then you shall see that this People will not only love them take their parts and wish them Success but will exceedingly rejoyce when they are Victorious in sinking your Ships or defeating your Forces And this is sufficient to answer your Proposal for Alliances abroad and for a War with France Besides this to wind all up in a Word it is not to be imagined that so good and wise a Prince as we have at this time should ever be induced when he comes to understand perfectly his own Condition to let his own Interest granting his Power to be so which is very false contest with the Safety and Preservation of his People for which only it was given him or that he will be any way tenacious of such Prerogatives as now by a natural Revolution of Political Circumstances are so far from continuing useful to his Governing the People that they are the only Remora and Obstacle of all Government Settlement and Order For His Majesty must needs know that all Forms of regulating Mankind under Laws were ordained by God and Man for the Happiness and Security of the Governed and not for the Interest and Greatness of those who rule unless where there is Melior Natura in the Case So God Governs Man for his own Glory only and Men Reign over Beasts for their own Use and Service and where an Absolute Prince rules over his own Servants whom he feeds and pays as we have said or the Master of a great and numerous Family Governs his Houshold they are both bound by the Law of God and Nature and by their own Interest to do them Justice and not Insaevire or Tyranize over them more than the necessity of preserving their Empire and Authority requires Doct. But Sir considering the difficulty which will be found in the King and possibly in the Parliament too to come up to so great an alteration at the first and the danger that may happen by our remaining long in this unsetled Condition which does hourly expose us to innumerable hazards both at home and from abroad why may we not begin and lay the Foundation now by removing all His Majesty's present Council by Parliament which is no new thing but hath been often practised in many Kings Reigns Eng. Gent. First the Council that is the Privy Council which you mean is no part of our Government as we may have occasion to shew hereafter nor is the King obliged by any Fundamental Law or by any Act of Parliament to hearken to their Advice or so much as to ask it and if you should make one on purpose besides that it would not be so effectual as what we may propose it would be full as hard to go down either with King or Parliament But besides all this you would see some of these Counsellours so nominated by Parliament perhaps prove honest and then they would be forced to withdraw as some lately did because they found I suppose that till the Administration be alter'd it is impossible that their Councils can be imbraced or any thing be acted by them which may tend to the good of their Country those who have not so great a sence of Honour and Integrity will be presently corrupted by their own Interest whilst the Prince is left in possession of all those baits and means to answer such Mens ectpectations It being most certain that if you have a musty Vessel and by consequence dislike the Beer which comes out of it and draw it out causing the Barrel to be immediately fill'd with good and sound Liquor it is certain by experience that both your new Drink and all that ever you shall put into the Cask till it be taken in pieces and the Pipes shaved and new model'd will be full as musty and unsavoury as the first which you found fault with Noble Ven. Now Sir I think we are at an end of our Questions and I for my part am convinced that as the King cannot better himself any way by falling out with his people at this time so that his goodness and wisdom is such that he will rather chuse to imitate the most glorious and generous of his predecessors as Edward the First and Edward the Third than those who were of less worth and more unfortunate as Edward the Second and Richard the Second And therefore we are now ready to hear what you would think fit to ask of so excellent a Prince Eng. Gent. I never undertook to be so Presumptuous there is a Parliament to sit speedily and certainly they are the fittest every way to search into such matters and to anticipate their wisdom would be unreasonable and might give them just offence But because all this tittle tattle may not go for nothing I shall presume to give you my thoughts how the Cure must be wrought without descending to particulars The Cause Immediate as we have said of our Disease is the inexecution of our Laws and it is most true that when that is alter'd for the better and that all our Laws are duly executed we are in health for as we can never have the entire benefit of them till our Government is upon a right Basis