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A07696 A dialoge of comfort against tribulacion, made by Syr Thomas More Knyght, and set foorth by the name of an Hu[n]garie[n], not before this time imprinted More, Thomas, Sir, Saint, 1478-1535. 1553 (1553) STC 18082; ESTC S112882 216,983 350

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to say the trueth euery man hath cause in this case to feare both for hymselfe also for euery other For syth as the Scripture sayth Vnicuique deus dedit curam de proximo suo god hath geuen euery man cure and charge of his neighbour There is no mā that hath any sparke of christen loue charitie in his brest but that in a matter of such perel as thys is wherin the soule of man standeth in so great daunger to be loste he muste nedes care and take thought not for hys frēdes only but also for hys ve●y foes We shal therfore Cosin not rehearse your harmes or myne that may befall in this persecucion but al the great harmes ingeneral as nere as we can cal to mynd that may happe vnto any man ¶ The .iii. Chapter SYth a man is made of the bodye and the soule all the harme that any man maye take it muste nedes be in one of these two either immediatli or by the mean● of some suche thyng as serueth for the pleasure weale or commoditie of the one of these two as for the soule first we shal nede no rehearsal of any harme that by thys kynde of tribulacion maye attayne therto but if that by some inordinate loue and affeccion that the soule beare to the body she consente to slide fro the faith and therby doe her harme her self Nowe remayn there the body and these outward thinges of fortune whiche serue for the mayntenaunce of the body and minister matter of pleasure to the soule also thorowe the delighte that she hath in the body for the while that she is matched therwith Considre thā first the losse of those outwarde thynges as somewhat the lesse in waight than is the body it self in them what may a mā lose and therby what payne maye he suffre Vincent He maye lose vncle of which I should somewhat lose my selfe money plate other mouable substaunce thā offices auctoritie and finally al the landes of hys inheritaunce for euer that himselfe his heires perpetually might els enioye And of al these thynges vncle you wote wel that my self haue some litle in respect of that the some other haue here but somewhat more yet thā he y● hath most here would be wel cōtent to lose Upō the losse of these thinges folowe nedines and pouertie the payne of lackyng the shame of begging of which twayne I wote not wel which is the most wretched necessitie beside the griefe and heauynes of heart in beholding good mē and faythful his dere frendes be wrapped in lyke mysery and vngracious wretches and infydeles and his most mortal enemyes enioie the commodities that hymselfe and hys frendes haue lost Now for the body very fewe wordes shal serue vs for therin I see none other harme but losse of libertie labour imprisonment paynful shameful death ☞ Anthony There nede not muche more Cosyn as the world is now for I feare me that lesse than a fowerth part of thys wil make many a man sore stagger in his faith and some man fall quite therfro that yet at thys daye before he come to the proofe weneth himselfe that he would stand very fast and I bese●he our lord that al they that so thinke would yet when they were brought vnto the poynt fal therefro for feare or for payn may geat of god the grace to wene stil as thei doe not to be brought to thassay where payn or feare should shew thē then And as it ●hewed S. Peter howe farre they bee deceiued now But nowe Cosin against these terrible thinges what way shal we take in geuing mē counsaile or comfort if the fayth were in our dayes as feruent as it hath been ere thys in tymes past litle coūsaile litle com●ort would suffise we should not much nede with wordes reasonyng to extenuate and minishe the vigoure and asperitie of the paines but the greater the more bytter that the passion were the more ready was of old time y● feru●ur of faith to suffre it surely Cosin I doubt it litle in my mind but that if a mā had in his heart so depe a desire loue lōgyng to be with god in heauē to haue the fruiciō of hys gloryous face as had those holy mē that were martyrs in y● old time he would no more now sticke at the payn that he must passe betwene than at that tyme those old holy martirs did But alas our faynt feble fayth with our loue to god lesse thā leuke warme by the fyry affecciō that we beare to our own fil●hy f●eshe maketh vs so dull in the desier of heauē that the sodayn dreade of euerybodely payne woundeth vs to the hearte and strike●h our deuocion starke dead therfore hath there euery mā Cosin as I said before much she more nede to thynke vpon this thing many a tyme and ofte afore hād ere any such pe●el fal by much deuising therupō before they see the cause to feare it while the thing shall not appeare so terrible vnto thē● reason shal better enter and thorowe grace workyng with their diligence engendre and set sure not a sodayne sleyght affeccion of sufferaūce for god his sake but bi a lōg cōtinuaūce a strōg depe roted habite not like a reede ready to waue with euery wynde nor like a rootelesse tree scant set vp an end in a loose heape of light sand the wil with a blast or two be blowen downe The .iiii. Chapter FOr if we nowe consider Cosin these causes of terroure and dreade that you haue recited whiche in hys persequcyon for the fayth thys midde day deuil maye by these Turkes reare agaynst vs to make his incursion with we shal well perceiue waying them well with reason that al be it somewhat they be in dede yet euery part of the matter pondered they shal wel appeare in conclusyon thynges nothing so much to be dread and ●●ed fro as to folke at the first syght they doe sodaynly seme ¶ The .v. Chapter Of the losse of the goodes of fortune FOr first to beginne at these outward goodes that neither are the proper goodes of the soule nor of the body but are called the goodes of fortune ●hat serue for the sustenaūce commoditie of man for the shorte season of thys presente life as worldly substaunce offices honor auctoritie● What great good is there in these thinges of thēselfe for whiche they were worthy so muche as to beare the name by which the world of a worldly fauour customably calleth them For if the hauing of strength make a man strong and the hauing of heate make a man hote and the hauyng of vertue make a man verteous how can these thynges be verely and truly good whiche he that hath them maye by the hauyng of them as well be the worse as the better and as experience proueth more o●ten is the worse than the better What should a good man greatly reioyce in that that
vpon our owne glotonous feastyng or a man that is punyshed for his owne open faulte These tribulacions loe and such other lyke albeit that they maye seme dyscomfortable in that a man maye be sorye to thinke him selfe the cause of his own harme yet hath he good cause of comforte in thē if he consydre that he maye make them medicinable for him if him selfe will For where as there was dewe to that sinne except it were pourged here a farre greater punishemēt after this world in an other place This wordly trybulaciō of payne punishmēt by goddes good prouision for him put vpō him here in this world before shal by the meane of Christes passion if the mā wil in true faith and good hope by meke and pacient sufferance of his tribulacion so make it serue him for a sure medicine to cure him and clerely dyscharge him of al the sicknes and disease of those paynes that els he should suffer after For suche is the greate goodnes of almyghty god that he punisheth not one thinge twyse And albeit so that this punishment is put vnto the mā not of his own eleccyon and fre choyce but so by force as he would faine auoide it and falleth in it aginst his wil therfore scantly worthy no thanke yet so farre passeth the greate goodnes of god the poore vnperfite goodnes of mā that though mē make theyr rekening one here with an other such god yet of his hygh boūtye in mannes accoumpte toward him alloweth it for otherwise For though a man fall in his payne by his own faulte and also fyrst agaynst his wyl yet as sone as he confesseth his faulte and applyeth his wil to be content to suffer that pain punishmēt for the same waxeth sory not for that onely that he shal sustayn suche punishment but for that also that he hath offended God and therby deserued much more Our lord frō that time counteth it not for paine taken against his wyll but it shal be a merueilous good medicine worke as a willingly taken payne the purgacion and clensing of his soule with gracious remission of his sinne and of the farre greater payne that els had bene prepared therfore peraduenture in hel for euer For many there are vndoubtedly that would els driue forth and dye in their deadly sinne which yet in such tribulaciō feling theyr own fraylety so effectually and the false flatte●ing world failing thē so fully turne goodly to god and cal for mercye by grace make vertue of necessitie and make a medicine of their maladi taking their trouble mekely and make a right godly ende Consider well the story of Acham that cōmitted sacrilege at the greate citie of Hierico wherupō god toke a great vengeance vpon the children of Israell and after tolde thē the cause and bad thē go seke the fault and trye it out by lottes when the lot fell vpō the very man that did it being tryed by the fallyng fyrst vpon his trybe than vpon his house and finally vpon his person he might wel see that he was deprehended and taken against his wil but yet at the good exhortaciō of Iosue saying vnto hym Fili mi da gloriam deo Israel confitere indica mihi quid feceris neabscondas Mine own sonne geue glori to the god of Israel and confesse and shewe me what thou hast done and hide it not He cōfessed humbly the thefte and mekely toke his death therfore hadde I doubt not both strēgth comforte in his paine died a very good mā which if he had neuer come in tribulaciō had bene in perel neuer hapli to haue had iust remorce therof in al his whole life but might haue died wrechedly gone to the deuil eternally thus made this thefe a good medicine of his wel deserued paine tribulaciō Cōsider y● wel conuerted thefe y● honge on Christes right hand did not he by his meke sufferaūce hūble knowlege of his fault asking forgeuenes of god yet cōtēt to suffer for his sī make of his iust punishmēt wel deserued trybulaciō a very good special medicine to cure him of all payn in thother world wyn him eternal saluaciō thus I say that this kinde of tribulaciō though it seme the most base the least cōfortable is yet if the mā wil so make it a very meruelous holesom medicine may therfore be to the mā that wyl so consider it a great cause of comfort and spiritual consolacion The .ix. Chapter The second point that is to vvitte that tribulacion that is sente vs by God vvithout any open certaine deseruing cause knovvne to our selfe and this kynd of tribulacion is medicinable if men vvill so take it● and therefore great occasion of comforte Vincent UErely myne vncle this firste kinde of tribulacion haue you to my minde opened sufficiently therefore I pray you resort now to the secōd Anthony The second kinde was you wote wel of such tribulaciō as is so sent vs by god that we know no certayn cause deseruing that presēt trouble as we certainly know that vpō such a surfit we fel in such a sicknes or as the thefe knoweth y● for such a certaine theft he is fallē into such a certain punishemēt but yet sith we seldom lack faults against god worthy wel deseruing great punishmēt in dede we may wel thinke wisdom it is so to doe that with sin we haue deserued it and that god for some sinne sende●h it though we certainly knowe not our self for whych therfore as yet thus farforth is this kind of tribulaciō somewhat in effect in comfort to be takē like vnto the other for this as you se if we thus wil take it wel reckening it to be sent for sin suffering it mekely therfore ī medicinable against the paine in the other world to come for our sinnes in this worlde passed whiche is as I shewed you● a cause of right great cōfort But yet may thā this kind of tribulaciō be to some mē of more sober liuing therby of y● more clere cōsciēce sōwhat a litle more cōfortable for though thei may none otherwise re●kin them self thā sinners For as Saint Paul saith Nulliu● mihi consius sum se● non in hoc iustificatus sum My cōscyence grudgeth me not of any thing but yet am I not therby iustified And as Saint Ihō sayth Si dixerimus quia pecc●tum non habemus ipsi nos seducimus veritas in nohis non est If we saye that we haue no sin in vs we beguyle our self and trouth is there not in vs yet for as much as the cause is to thē not so certayn as it is to the other afore remēbred in the first kind that it is also certain that god sōtime sēdeth tribulaciō for kepīg preseruing a mā frō such sin as he should els fal in somtime also for excercise of their paciēce encrease of
but surely we be not sure therfore then sample of Salomō can very litle serue you for you might as well lay it for a profe that god fauoureth Idolatrie as that he fauoureth prosperitye for Salomō was you wote wel in bothe As for Iob sith our questiō hāgeth vpō prosperitie perpetual y● welthe of Iob that was with so great aduersitie so sore interrupted can as your self seeth serue you for no ensāple And that god gaue him here in this world al thing double that he lost litle toucheth my matter which deny not prosperitie to be gods gift geuē to sum good mē too namely such as haue tribulaciō too But in Abrahā Cosī I suppose is al your chief hold because that you not onely shewe riches prosperitie perpetual in hī throw the course of al his whole life in this world but that after his death also La●are that poore mā that liued in tribulaciō died for pure hūger thirst had after his death his place of cōfort and rest in Abrahā the welthy riche mans bosome But here must you cōsider that Abrahā had not such cōtinuall prosperitie but that it was discōtinued with diuers tribulaciōs 1 Was it not●īg to him trow you to leaue his own coūtrey and at gods sending to goe into a straunge land whiche god promised him and his sede for euer but in all his whole lyfe he gaue himselfe neuer a foote 2 Was it no trouble y● his Cosin Loth himself were fain to part company because their seruauntes could not agree together 3 Though he recouered Loth again from the .iii. kīges was his taking no trouble to him trowe you in the meane while 4 Was the destrucciō of the fiue cities no heauines to his heart A man would wene yes that redeth in the story what laboure he made to saue them 5 His heart was I dare say in no litle sorow when he was faine to let Abimelech the king haue his wife whō though god prouided to kepe vndefiled turned al to welth yet was it no litle wo to him in the meane time 6 What cōtinual grief was it to his heart many a long daye that he had no child of his owne bodi begotten he that doubteth thereof shall finde it in Genesis of his own moone made to god 7 No man doubteth but Ismael was greate comforte vnto him at his byrthe and was it no griefe than when he must cast out the mother and the chylde both 8 Isaac that was the chylde of Promyssyon although god kept his lyfe that was vnlooked for yet whyle the louyng father bounde hym and went about to behead hym and offre him vp in sacrifice who but himself can conceiue what heauines his hert had thā I woulde wene in my mynde because you speake of lazare that lazars owne death panged him not so sore Thā as laza●us paine was paciently borne so was Abrahams taken not onely pacientely● but whiche is a thing muche more meritorious of obedience willingly And therefore though Abraham had not as he dyd in dede farre excell lazare in merite of reward for many other thynges besyde and specially for that he was a speciall Patriarche of the fayth yet had he farre passed him euen by the merite of tribulacion well taken here for gods sake to And so serueth for your purpose no man lesse then Abraham But now good Cosin let vs looke a litle lenger here vpon the riche Abraham lazare the poore and as we shall see lazare set in welth some what vnder the riche Abraham so shal we se another ryche man lye full lowe beneath lazare crying and calling out of his fyrie couche that lazare myghte with a droppe of water fallyng from his fingers end a litle coole and refresh the tippe of his burning tong Consider well nowe what Abraham aunswered to the riche wretche Fili recordare quia recepisti bona in vita tua lazarus similiter mala nune autem hic consolatur tu vero cruciaris Sōne remēber that thou hast in thy lyfe receiued welthe and lazare in lyke wyse payne but nowe receiueth he comforte and thou sorow payne and torment Christe describeth his wealthe and hys prosperitie gaye and softe apparell wyth royall delicate fare continuallye daye by daye Epulabatur saieth our Sauior ● quotidie splendide He did fare royally eueri day his welth was cōtinual lo no time of tribulacion betwene And Abraham telleth hym the same tale that he had takē his welth in this world and Lazarus likewise his pain that they had now chaunged eche to the cleane contrary poore Lazar frō tribulacion into welth the riche man from his continual prosperite into perpetual pain Here was laid expresselye to Lazare no very greate vertue by name nor to this riche glotton no great heynous crime but the taking of his continuall ease and pleasure withoute any tribulaciō or griefe wherof grewe slouth negligence to thinke vpō the poore mans paine For that euer him selfe saw Lazarus and wist hym dye for hunger at his dore that layd neither Christ nor Abraham to his charge And therfore Cosin this story lo of which by occasiō of Abraham and Lazare you putte me in remembraūce well declareth what perell is in continuall worldly welth and contrarywyse what comforte cōmeth of tribulacion And thus as your other ensamples of Salomon and Iob nothyng for the matter further you So your ensample of riche Abraham and poore Lazarus haue not a litle hindred you ¶ The .xvii. Chapter An ansvvere to the second obieccion Vincent SUrely vncle you haue shaken myne ensamples sore and haue in your meting of your shoote remoued me these arrowes me thinketh farther of fro the prycke then me thought they stacke when I shot them And I shall therefore nowe be contente to take them vp againe But yet me semeth surely that my seconde shalte maye stande For of trueth if euery kynde of tribulacion be so profitable that it be good to haue it as you saye it is I cannot see wherfore any mā shoulde eyther wyshe or praye or any maner of thyng dooe to haue any kynde of tribulacion wythdrawen eyther from hymselfe or any frende of his ☞ Anthony I thinke in very deade tribulacion so good and profytable that I shoulde happely doubte as you doe wherfore a manne mighte laboure or praie to be deliuered of it sauing that God whyche teacheth vs ●he one teacheth vs also the other And as he bidde●h vs take oure payne paciently and exhorte oure neighbours to dooe also the same so byddeth he vs also not lette to dooe oure deuoure to remoue the payn from vs both And then when it is god that teacheth both I shall not nede to breake my brayne in deuising wherfore he woulde bydde vs to dooe both the tone seming to resiste the other Yf he sende the scourge of scarcitie and of greate famine he wyll we shall beare it pacientlye but yet wyll he that we shall