vacant But where are your Bishops and parish Priests Must your Clergy be compos'd only of Cardinals Nay where are your sheep your flocks Mr. Walsh you name but 97. Laiks which number can not afford two Parishioners to each Pastor This is indeed a very litle flock pusillus grex but great I hope in virtue and merit Well! we will not say any thing against their persons but we will set down the fundamental principles wherby you distinguish this blessed flock from that of the Roman Catholik Church which you call Papalin puritan papist popish recusant c. Your 1. principle is that the english oath of supremacy may br a Page 16. of the Dedicatory lawfully taken by all Roman Catholiks nay that they commit a sin of rashness and obstinacy in refusing it You know Mr. Walsh all rashness and obstinacy is a sin 2. a In the Prof. pag. 40. Pref. pag. 49 That temporal Soueraigns may lawfully make lawes in ecclesiastical matters euen of Faith by their own sole authority 3. That for these 600. b Dedic page 13. last years the Roman Catholik Church hath err'd enormously for gainsaying these principles of yours 4. c Pet. Walsh sayes pag. 75. And yet I must tell my Aduersaries that such Catholik Diuines as hold the absolute fallibility of general Councels euen I mean in points of faith think they can say enough for themselâ—es c. That Roman Catholik Authors hold and maintain general Councells are not infallible in defining matters of Faith or doctrin Do you hold such Authors to be Roman Catholik Mr. Walsh If you do your are not one your-self 5. d Pag. 20. Dedic That all the Roman Catholik Bishops of the world for as many hundred years as they haue taken the vsual oath before their consecration haue bin and are now either Traitors or periur'd persons for taking it So that for all this time all general Councels were compos'd wholy of Traitors or periur'd persons 6. That Popes as Popes and Bishops as Bishops e Hâ—â—ory 1. p. sect 33. page 79 can not in conscience contribute or concurr by raising Troops or any other temporal wayes to defend the liues or rights of their lawfull soueraigns against Rebells or endeauor to restore them to their Kingdoms and Dominions if possess'd by vsurpers and Tyrants 7. That the supreme secular Princes can not grant to Clergy f 1. part of the 1. Treatise pag 417. sin men their subiects an exemption from the supreme secular judicature or from their supreme coerciue power Whence must follow that all Christian Princes haue sin'd in doing so and the whole Catholik Church err'd in commanding their piety for granting those immunities 8. That a Page 79 cit no spiritual power as such can inflict vpon any score a corporal punishment for any misdemeanors whatsoeuer particularly for heresy So that the Kings of England by virtue of their spiritual supremacy can not punish heresies And as supreme heads in temporal affairs they can as litle Whence follows that neither as spiritual nor as temporal Heads they can punish heretiks This is good newes for you and the Blakloists Mr. Walsh 9. That neither the Pope nor the b Friar Walsh in his pag 430. 1. part of the first Treatise saith I do my self as I confess I am bound most Religiously allow the â—anonization vencration and inuocation of Saint Thomas of Canterbury and all three of him as of a glerious Martyr too and not with standing I allow also all the mercies raported of him Generals of Regular Orders can inflict any corporal punishment vpon their inferior Priests or Friars for the greatest misdemeanors or for writing such follies as these of yours are Mr. Walsh This also may comfort you 10. That notwithstanding supreme temporal Princes can not in conscience or reason c Pag 429. exempt Clerks from their supreme coerciue power or Courts of secular iudicature according to your 7. principle yet God may and hath wrought great Miracles in the case of S. Thomas of Canterbury to confirm they may so exempt them and by consequence God according to your principles may encourage men to sin by miracles 11. That God may in all like cases work Miracles to assure the Church c Pag 429. that a man who dyes for defending the Church immunities is a Saint and enjoyes his Diuine sight notwithstanding those immunities could not be lawfully granted by Princes to the Church and the man who dyed for maintaining them dyed maintaining an error 12. a Fâ—iar Walsh his words ibid page 4â—9 One may be inuok't as a Martyr in the Church largely or not so strictly yet properly still if he dyes for witnessing or bearing testimony to a good zeal and great piety and excellent conscience in being constant to a cause which one esteems the more iust and generaly seems the more pious for all he knows though it be not an euangelical trnth and though perhaps too he may be deceiued in the obiectiue truth of what he dyes for This is your Creed Mr. Walsh the twelue articles of your Remonstrant Religion By this last all Iewes Turks and heretiks that are pious in their own way and dye for their erroneous Tenets are properly Martyrs though not so strictly and God may work Miracles to confirm the belief of their bliss piety and good conscience and by consequence all our Christian Miracles signify nothing as to the proof of the obiectiue truth of what we belieue they only proue that we mean well in belieuing the Mysteries of Faith though falie in themselues only such Christian and Catholik Martyrs whose Miracles as were wrought say you at the inuocation of God by the Saint himself or by any other that God might be pleased by working such Miracles b Page 429. to euidence the iustice of such a cause do confirm the truth of the doctrin profess'd by such a Martyr or Maintainer of it For if they had bin â—rought so the case would be cleer enough as to such who saw those Miracles or to whose knowledge authentik proofs of them di sufficiently com that enen the obedience truth and iustice of things in such a controuersy had bin on such a Saint or Martyr's side But otherwise wrought they can be no more but Diuine testimonies of his hauing wonderfully or extraordinarily serâ—ed God either â—n his life or death or both whether he was deceiued or no in som things And besides they can be no more or at least on any rational ground can not be said to be any more than Diuine testimonies of his being now with God in glory Do you say all this Mr Walsh to make the world belieue that Turks and Iewes are now with God or Saints in Gods glory Or only to proue that the Miracles wrought by God for S Thomas of Canterbury may stand very well with hauing no truth or iustice on his side in his known controuersy with King Henry 2.
of sowing dissention and diuiding Roman Catholiks by his Remonstrance hath gain'd him a litle credit and countenance in Court therfore he must be so learned and loyal as to teach not only the Irish Catholik Clergy but the whole Catholik Church their duty as if they were ignorant of it to God and Cesar Whence had he all this learning Did his teaching a yeare or two Philosophy and half a yeare or therabouts Diuinity in Kilkenny to half a dozen Schollars make him an Oecumenical master and adorn him with so extraordinary knowledge both Diuine and human as to instruct not only the dull Clergy of Ireland but the acutest wits of France Spain and Italy The man was so sensible of the aspersion you cast vpon his and your own Countreymen that I durst not excuse you and indeed you spoke inconsideratly for it s well known to most of the famous Vniuersities of Europe that as Irish men haue bin antiently their first Founders so they haue bin of late their chiefest Professors and greatest Ornament Your self might haue known or at least heard of Richard Wadding the Augustin in Conimbria of Iames Arthur the Dominican in Alcala Salamanca and Conimbria of Holiwood in Padua and Mussipont of Luke Wadding and Richard Lynch in Salamanca of Peter wadding in Prague all Jesuits of many famous Doctors of Sorbon in Paris of your own Friars Hicky Cauel Lombard and Luke Waddin in Rome Of the Iesuit Thomas Talbot aliàs de Leon in Granada the Oracle of all Spain not only for his profoundness in Diuinity but also for the vast extent of his knowledge in other sciences and languages You might haue knowen the eminent Doctor of Bologna Riredan of Tolosa not to speake of other famous Physitians who though not Professors yet Practioners so farr aboue the common sort as Fenell Fogotty O Meara c. That they may be recorded to posterity for patterns of safe and successfull prescriptions as others are for printed bookes These and others though all dead the two last only excepted yet are a fresh and euerlasting euidence against your imputing dulness of apprehension and ignorance to the Irish Clergy and nation I could name said an other four of the Irish Bishops yet liuing and many of the inferior Clergy especialy Regulars who taught with great applause in foreign and famous Vniuersities both Diuinity and Philosophy Without doubt they take ill that a petty friar should pretend to teach them their duty either to God or the King Why did he not confute them in the Congregation of Dublin an 1666. when he had the Lord Lieutenants fauor to countenance his doctrin and fright them into his opinions Why did not he answer then the Prolocutor Bishop Lynch and Father Nicholas Netteruilles reasons Why did he not accept of Father Iohn Talbots offer to shew in diuers particulars Frier Redmund Carons gross inexcusable falsifications in his Remonstrantia Hibernorum and in his lesser libel intituled Loyalty asserted Why did he not answer the obiections and reasons of many others as learned men as these who confounded him and his errors in that Congregation Then was the time to vindicat his doctrin and Remonstrance but if now after 6. years study Walsh his volum of that subiect is a nuisance to the Academies a bundell of errors rak't out of the ashes of burnt heretical bookes how wat it possible for him to speake then any thing but heresies and nonsense This your Countrey men What could I answer to this But 't is wors yet He gaue me the ensuing writing wherin he vndertakes to shew euen to yourself that those of the Irish Clergy you so much vndervalue had and haue still the better of you not only in wit but in learning euen in this controuersy after your 6. years study of this matter Let vs first of all saith he state it right You pretend that the Supremacy of temporal Soueraings doth not only giue them power to make ecclesiastical lawes euen in matters of Faith as appears by your foresaid own words speaking of lustinian the Emperor but that the spiritual authority of the Church can not warrant its punishing by corporal penalties such an irregular Friar as you are thought to be And to make this your Tenet more plausible you would fain inferr from the coerciue power in the Church of whipping such a fellow as you are a coerciue power to dethrone Princes as if forsooth they could not sit securely nor be at ease in their thrones if you should be disciplin'd Mr. Walsh the Soueraignty of Princes is so sacred a thing that I dare not medle with it and am forbid to write of that subiect as all others are who liue in France the man is a Graduate of Sorbon But you know that Bellarmin himself confesseth Princes can not be deposed for bare heresy though Popes may Their temporal iurisdiction can not be question'd for their errors How then can you inferr that if the Church may punish and whip you for heresy it may also depose Kings for the same Therfore I hope it may be discussed without consequence or offence ANIMAD 4. Whether it be heresy or Treason to maintain that the Superiors of the Franciscan Order by virtue of the spiritual power which they haue from the Pope of gouerning their Friars may command Friar Peter Walsh to be whipt against his own will for misdemeanors BE not angry Mr. Walsh vntill you heare me out It is no disgrace for a Religious man to be corrected by his Prouincial or General neither is it the first time that a Friar hath bin whipt and I am sure none euer deserued it better than you do But let us see what can you say for your not being whipt against your will for misdemeanors we will now suppose there are som and shall be proued time enough My self and others of the Irish Clergy obiected against this your main Tenet viz. that no corporal punishment may be inflicted by virtue of a spiritual power the general practise of the whole Catholik Church and all Religious Orders which not only put from Mass and depriue of the suffrages of the faithfull such Apostats as they excommunicat but also forbid them any commerce and conuersation with others nay command them to be whipt and impriprison'd when hands can be layd on them To this obiection you answer page 79. sec 33. thus I take in the first place their allegation of the Faithfull being whipt and commanded to vndergoe austere pennances to be vnconclusure Your reason Mr. Walsh Because euery Ghostly Father may in som cases enioyn his Penitent such punishments and by virtue of his meer spiritual power may do so but can inflict none either by himself or by an other if the penitent will be refractory And not only the Pope not only the Bishop but euery inferior Priest may in fore confessionali enioyn his penitent euen a King or Emperor whateuer is iudged necessary for his eternal Saluation and consequently in som
cases a deposition of themselues from their whole temporal estates Kingdoms or Empires as in that of a tyrannical and manifest vsurpation and of necessary restitution the true and legal heire suruiuing and known and possible to be admitted without subuersion of the state or people much more where it may be auaileable to the support of both Yet I hope the Author of this Querie and reasons for the affirmatiue will not say that euery such Ghostly Father can proceed to execution whether their penitents will or not Or can by force of Arms or other corporal means diuest them respectiuely of their ill gotten goods Estates Kingdoms Empires though only to put the lawfull proprietors in possession therof Mr. Walsh the dulness and ignorance which you imputed to the Irish Clergy must be retorted vpon yourself in this dispute Are you so short sighted as not to discern the vast difference there is between the spiritual power of a ghostly Father in soro confessionali as you call it and the spiritual power of a Bishop in his Diocess or of your General in his Order as they are Pastors and Iudges in foro externo The one is exercised and extended no further than to absolue and punish priuatly a penitent who is his own accuser and coms with a perfect submission and resignation to any penance or penalty the Confessor shall think fit to giue If the penitent coms not with this preparation there is no power in the Confessor to absolue him or to giue him a penance But the spiritual power and authority of the Bishops and Generals of orders as such is not only to absolue priuarly one who submits voluntarily and confesseth his frailties and faults of his own accord but to punish and correct publikly such as will not submit voluntarily to any penance nor confess their faults but rather maintain their errors with obstinacy These can not be punished corporaly in foro externo by a spiritual Iudge vntill their sin and perversness be proued by cleer euidence of lawfull witnesses So that it is a quite different power from that of a Confessor If this obstinacy therfore be not checkt and corrected by temporal and corporal penalties independently of the voluntary acceptation of the offender it will encourage and corrupt others to the like insolency and destroy the whole Flock and the whole Order Therfore they who are to ouersee the Church or flock and a religious order and to giue a strict account for the souls committed to their charge must haue annexed to their correctiue power not only that of applying spiritual Censures which vpon obstinat and incredulous minds work litle or nothing as appears in your self Mr. Walsh but also corporal punishments that Virga ferrea wherof Dauid prophecis'd Psal 2. That therwith Christ should gouern his inheritance that is the Church Dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam possessionem tuam terminos terrae Reges eos in virga ferrea That iron rod wherwith S. Paul threatned the Corinthians Vultis vt in virga ferrea veniam ad vos And wherwith he punished the incestuous Corinthian and deliuered him ouer to Sathan not only by Excommunication but to be corporaly tormented as the Expositors commonly vnderstand those words in interitum carnis 1. Cor. 4. That iron rod Mr. Walsh wherof it is said Prouerb 13. Qui parâ—it virgae odit filium He who spares the rod hates the child Can you imagin that Christ our Sauior doth hate his children or that he would not leaue a rod in his Church to chastie them with corporal punishments when vice and passion hath rendred them insensible of all spiritual admonitions and censures If according to Scripture Vexatio dat intellectum why should you think that Christ would forbid his Church to vere by corporal punishments those souls which are not troubled or moued at spiritual ones Jf corporal punishments or torments be proportionable or apt to punish correct deterr and amend delinquents in the Common-wealth why not also in the Church would Christ haue his Church wors gouern'd or more destitute of proportionable means to gouern than a Commonwealth Do you grant Mr. Walsh that the Church of Christ ought not to be destitute of means sufficient to compass its ends Do you grant one of the ends of the same Church is to conuert the most incredulous and obstinat sinners Can you deny there are many sinners so incredulous and obstinat that no spiritual admonitions or Censures do them good This you can not deny for it is most euident in your self how often haue you bin admonish'd how often excommunicated by your lawfull Superiors for printing heretical and non sensical bookes and for intermedling in Church and state affairs contrary to your profession and without any commission or capacity for such employments If you do not see this you are the only person that doth not see it and therfore your not seing or at least not belieuing it demonstrats you are incredulous and obstinat This supposed will not you acknowledge that this incredulity and obstinacy of yours which all the world doth iudge to be grounded vpon pride and passion may be lessen'd and reclaim'd by shutting you vp in a cell giuing you spare diet keeping you from ill company that flatter and debauch you and whipping you once or twice a day I wish you would try it The Scripture tells you Virga correptio tribuunt sapientiam Proverb 29. These corporal vexations questionless would work more vpon you than the spiritual Censures haue don for I doubt not but that Gods grace by means of these helps would make you reflect vpon your self and giue you vnderstanding to see how ridiculous presumption it is in an inconsiderable half-witted and not so much as half learned petty friar to take vpon himself to teach the whole or the most considerable part of the Catholik Church Faith and Loyalty as if they had err'd in both for these 600. last years and hath the impudence to print that all the Catholik Bishops now liuing are either Traytors to their Soueraigns or periur'd to the Pope Now Mr. Walsh let 's see which of the two doctrins is destructiue to Soueraigns yours or that of the Catholik Church You state the case in an vsurper or Rebel against his lawfull King He coms to confession the Confessarius enioyns him to restore the Kingdom to the right Souerain He will not I hope say you pag. 79. the Author of this Querie will not say that euery such Ghostly Father can proceed to execution whether the penitent will or no or can by force of Arms or other corporal means deuest them respectiuely of their ill gotten goods Kingdoms c. And from this priuat and penitential power of a Confessarius you inferr that neither Bishops nor Pope can in conscience ferue their Soueraign as not being allowed by God to proceed by force of Arms or other corporal means against vsurpers and Rebells though their design be no