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A72513 Peter Ramus, his logick in two bookes. Not onely truely translated into English, but also digested into question and answere, for the more easie understanding of all men. By R.F. Gent; Dialectica. English Ramus, Petrus, 1515-1572.; Fage, Robert. 1636 (1636) STC 15249.7; ESTC S125061 47,136 128

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into five species starres birds beasts fish men hee giveth life to the starres as the Philosophers doe No region is without some living thing Starres in the skies the formes of gods being Birds in the aire in abundance be Beasts on the earth and fishes in the sea But yet ' mongst these a creature more divine Who may them rule and governe all in fine There wanted much untill that man was borne So Cic Offic 1. divideth vertue into foure species prudence justice fortitude and temperance but all that is honest springeth out of one of these foure parts for either it is conversant in the knowledge and skill of the truth or in the defending the society of men and giving every one his owne also in trust of things bargained or in a high minde and admirable greatnes and courage or lastly in all things which are made and called order and meanes in which is modesty and temperance Q. What is distribution of the genus into the formes of the species A. Distribution of the genus into the formes of the species is the same because the forme with the genus constitute their species Q. Give example A. Of living creatures one is speaking another dumbe Q. May not genus and species bee handled apart and severally A. Yes genus species are not only handled after this simple forme of division but also apart one from another Q. Give example A. Pro Arc But least any should wonder that we say so that there is a certaine faculty of wit and this reason or discipline of speaking neither that we have truely given our selves altogether to this study for all artes which pertaine to humanity have a certaine common band and are contained as it were in a certaine knowledge amongst themselves Q. Shew the force of this example A. Art is the genus poesie and eloquence the species Q. Is not the genus handled also by the species A. Yes Q. Give example A. Ovid de Trist 4. Fill thy sad matter with thy vertues grave Hot glory doth decay it none can save Who had knowne Hector if Troy well had beene Through publique vices way to vertue 's seene Thine art ô Typhis lyes if in the sea There be no floods if men be well truly Then Phoebus art decayeth instantly That which they hid and is not knowne for good Appeares at last and shewes where evill stood Q. But are there no speciall examples fitted to this kinde A. Yes such as this Attic. 7. Wilt thou leave the city what if the French men come The common wealth hee saith is not in walls but altars and religion Theomistocles did the same and a whole host of Barbarians were not able to take one city But Pericles did not so who in the yeare almost before fifty when he kept nothing but a wall our city before being taken they kept the tower notwithstanding CAP. 28. Distribution from the subject Q. What is the other distribution A. The other distribution is of agreeings after a certaine manner Q. What are agreeings after a certain manner A The subjects and adjuncts Q. VVhat is the distribution from subjects A. The distribution from subjects is when the parts are subjects Q. Give example A. Cat Thy maiden head 's not wholly thine I wene One part thy father gave the part betweene Thou of thy mother had'st so that to thee None but the third remaineth for to be Therefore resist not two cast not away The thing thy parents gave to thee I say Q. Give example out of some Orator A. Cic Tusc 1. There are therefore three kindes of good as I understand from the Stoicks to whose use oftener then I am wont wee give place There are therefore those kindes of good whilst that the external things of the body are cast upon the ground because they are to bee undertaken they are called good There are other divine things which doe more nearly concerne us and are heavenly so that those who have attained them why may I not call them after a manner blessed yea most happy CAP. 29. Distribution from adjuncts Q. What is distribution from adjuncts A. Distribution from adjuncts is when the parts are adjuncts Q. Give example A. Of men some are sound some sicke some rich some poore Q. Give a poeticall example A. Virg Georg 1. Divideth the world into five partes the middle scorching hot the other two extreame cold the two last temperate Five zones the heavens doe hold the middle hot The Sun there burnes cold in it there is not But on the right and left hand there is seene Raine frost and cold that 's bitter sharpe keen The two last temperate yet in them is Mortality and many sicknesses Q. Give an Orators example A. Caes Bel Gal 1. All France is divided into three parts of which one the Belgians inhabite the other the Aequitans the third those who in their tongue are called Cetts in our language the Gaules CAP. 30. Definition Q. What is definition A. Definition is when it is explicated what the thing is and that interchangeably may bee argued with the thing defined Q. What are the kindes of definition A. A definition is perfect or imperfect Q. What is the perfect definition called A. This is properly called a definition Q. What is the imperfect called A. A description Q. What is a perfect definition A. A perfect definition is a definition consisting of the onely causes which constitute the essence such as the causes comprehended by the genus and forme Q. Give example A. After this manner is a man defined viz. by the genus a living creature we understand as it is said a corporeall essence full of life and sense which is the matter and a part of the forme of a man to which if thou addest reasonable thou comprehendest the whole forme of a man by the whole faculty of his life sense reason Q. It should seeme then that the perfect definition is nothing else then an universall symboll of the causes constituting the essence and nature of things A. So it is Q. Give an example A. The artes have such definitions Grammer of well speaking Rethoricke of pleading well Dialectica of disputing well Arithmeticke of numbring well Geometry of measuring well CAP. 31. Description Q. What is description A. Description is a definition defining the thing from other arguments also Q. Give example A. This is the description of a man a man is a living creature mortall capable of discipline Q. Are not proper circumstances also mingled with common causes sometimes A. Yes Q. Then it seemeth that succint brevity is not alwayes in this kinde A. No oftentimes it desireth a clearer and greater explication Q. Give an example out of some Orator A. In Mil Glory is described But yet of all rewards of vertue if there be a reason of rerewardes the greatest is glory this one comforteth us touching the shortnesse of our life causeth that wee are present with the absent dead maketh
th' other with grapes doth passe Some with tall trees the rest with unsowne grasse Q. Proceed further in explicating the subiect A. The subiects of sences are called sensibles of vertues or vices things proposed to vertues or vices Q. Give an example of the former A. Colour is the subiect of the sight sound of the hearing because these senses are occupied and exercised in the sensibles Q. Give an example of the latter A. Vertues and vices are set forth in morrall philosophy by this argument temperance and intemperance by pleasure magnanimity and sloth by danger liberality and covetousnes by riches Q. Explicate the subiect further A. So things numerable of arithmeticke measurable as I may say are the subiects of geometry Q. Give example of the subiect out of some Orator A. By the same subiect Cicero second Agra disputeth that there was no contention amongst the people of Campania because there was no honour They are not carried saith he with the desire of glory because where there is no publike honour there the desire of glory cannot be There is no discord neither by contention nor ambition for there is nothing for which they should strive nothing for which they should warre nothing for which they should contend Q. Give example out of some Poet Propertius useth this argument Of windes the Saylors talke the Husbandmen of Bulls The Soldiers of their wounds and shepheards of their woolls CAP. 11. The Adiunct Q. What is the Adiunct A. The Adiunct is that to which any thing is subiected which argument though it be lighter then the subiect yet more copious and frequent therefore of its signes Ovid speaketh Second Rem Anno. Some man for such there be may count this small Yet that helpes some which doth not profit all Q. Make this playner A. Those things which are called good and evill of the minde body and the whole man are the adiuncts of the minde body man also whatsoever happeneth without the subiect is the Adiunct Q. May not time also be reduced unto this head A. Yes as place was in the subiect so is time in the Adiunct viz. the induring of things past present to come Q. What further is comprised under this head A. All those quallities beside the causes adioyned to the subiect whether they be propet or common Q. What it Proper A. That which agreeth onely and wholly with the subiect as laughing with a man neying with a horse barking with a dogg Q. What is common A. That which is not proper after this manner Q. Give example of the Adiunct out of some Orator A. By this kind of argument Cicero in the defence of Roscius the Comedian cavelleth with Fanius Chereus Doth not his head and eye-brewes altogether bald seeme to favour of malice and cry out of deceit doth he not seem to be compounded from the foote to the head if a man may coniecture by his shape of frauds fallacies lyes Who therefore is altogether bald on the head and eyebrewes least he should be said to have one haire of a good man Q. Give example out of some Poet A. So Martiall lib. 2. mocketh Zoylus Red haire black mouth short feet and ilke squint eyes 'T is marvell Zoylus if goodnes in thee lies Q. What further may be reduced under this head A. Garments and company are Adiuncts Q. Give example A. By this kind of circumstance Dido going a hunting is magnificently set forth Aeneid 4. The morne appeard Dido forsooke the sea The day stir up toth heaven youth guides the way Both nets gins with picke stanes all were reddy Messalian horse with hunting dogs so greedy Princes did waite the slow queene did expect With faire clad horse her way for to direct Forth commeth shee at length with mighty traine In her long robe with many a long seame Her horse down trapt with gold her hair was trest Her robes with goldē books together did she wrest Q. What is the benefit of Adiuncts A. There is great use of Adiuncts to the subiects by which they are occupied Q. Give example A. By this argument Plato foretold those cities to be miserable where the multitude of Physitians and Iudges were wanting because of necessity there was conversant in those cityes both intemperance and iniustice And thus much for the place of agreeings from whence every agreeing argument may be said to be one or the same and all manner of vnity and as I may say identity are referred hither as the first and simple fountaines CAP. 12. Diverses Q. You have expounded the first agreeing argument the disagreeing followeth what then is disagreeing A. That which disagreeth from the thing Q. How are disagreeings manifested A. Disagreeings are equally manifested amongst themselves and equally argued one of another although they doe more clearely shine in their Disagreeings Q. What are the kindes of disagreeings A. Two Diverse and Opposite Q. What are Diverses A. Diverses are disagreeings which disagree onely in reason Q. What are the most frequent notes of speech for this Argument A. These Not this but that although yet Q. Give example from some Orator A. Pro Pempeio He carried not the victorie but the ensignes of the victory Q. Give some other examples A. Ovid secund Art Amand Vlisses was nos faire but Eloquent Aeneid 2. This Triamus though held in dust of death Yetseased not Also this of the like matter Pro Lig callest thou that wicked ô Tub●ro why he hath not hitherto deserved this name For some called error some feare that which more hardly hope desire hatred pertinacy the most grave temerity none wicked besides thy selfe CAP. 13. Desperates Q. What are Opposites A. Opposites are disagreeings which disagree in reason and thing therefore cannot bee attributed to the same according to the same to the same and at the same time Q. Make this plaine by example A. So Socrates cannot be blacke and white of one and the same part Father and sonne of the same man whole and sick at the same time but he may be white on the one part blacke on another Father of this sonne of that man sound to day sick to morrow Q. It should seeme by this that the one being affirmed the other is denied A. So it is Q. What are the kindes of Opposites A. Disparates or contraries Q. What are Disparates A. Disparates are opposites whereof one is opposed equally to many Q. Give example A. Greene Ashcolor Red are meanes betweene white and black which are Disparates both with the extreames among themselves So liberality and covetousnesse are disparates among themselves So a man a tree a stone and infinite of this kinde are Disparates neither can one thing be a man a tree a stone Q. Give example out of some Poet A. Virgill Aeneid 1. disputeth by this Argument O virgin how shall I remember thee Whose countenance not mortall seemes to bee Thy voice is sure aboue the humane reach Both which thee Goddes proves and so doe
whose silence thou beholdest to be their pleasures Q. What more A. Mortality and Immortality Q. Give example A. Pro Maro I grieue when as the common wealth ought to be immortall that it consisteth of one mortall life And this sufficeth to be spoken of Disagreeing from whence every thing may differ from another by certaine meanes CAP. 18. Equalls Q. Simple arguments were agreeings disagreeings we are now come unto Comparatives what are Comparatives therefore A. Comparatives are those which are compared amongst themselves Q. How are they manifested A. Although they bee equally knowne by the nature of comparison yet one to another is more knowne and illustrated then another and oftentimes are iudged by shorter notes sometimes distinguished by fuller patts Q. What may these parts be cald A. They are named the Propositiō Reditiō Q. May not comparatives also argue fictions A. Yes Comparatives doe argue feigned things and goe cause trust Q. What be the kindes of Comparisons A. Comparison is in Quantity or Quality Q. What is Quantity A. Quantity is that whereby is shewed how much the thing compared is Q. What be the kindes of Quantity A. Equalls or unequalls Q. What are Equalls A. Equalls are those of which there is one quantity Q. What is an Equall argument then A. An equall argument is when an Equall is explicated by an Equall Q. What are the notes of it A. Euen equal like the same that so much the more how much the more by so much by how much so much how much not more not lesse Q. Give example A. Aeneid 2. Equall with light windes Aeneid 3. And mow't should grow in equall age with thee Aeneid 6. Behold this thing Great Rome with earth is even The spirit of man shall also equall heaven Q. What further is necessary to these equalls A. A proposition or Reddition doth distinguish them Q. Give example out of some Orator A. Quart Cat Whose things done and the vertues to the same by which things onely the course is contained in its regions and bounds Q. Give example out of some Poet A. Aeneid 4. As well a bruiter of things false that be As messenger of truth and verity Cat. By how much I am worst of poets all By so much thee men best of patrons call Ovid de Trist 4. As many shells on shore as roses sweete As many sleeps as men by popy seedes doe get As many beasts in woods fish in the sea doe lie As many birds as in the ayrie heavens doe fly So many griefs me passe their number should I tell Icarian waters I must surely number well Q. Proceed to further examples A. Phil. 9. Neither had he more skill of the law then of iustice therefore those things which the lawes had brought forth chiefely the civill he alwayes referred to ease and equity neither had hee rather approve actions of strife then take away controversies Ovid de Art Amand 'T is no lesse vertue for to keepe then get Pro Mur. I acknowledge this to be equall for Lucius Murena and so equall that neither hee shall bee overcome by dignity neither by dignity shall overcome thee Phil. 2. Whose burthen being common why not a common pray of them Ter in Adelph When as I care not for thine care not thou for mine Q. What may further be comprised under this head A. Of this place are those that follow derived truely from contraries but treated of in the place of equals as this of Mart. Sosibian thou yeeld'st thou wast borne thrall When flattering thou thy father lord dost call Ovid 1. Fast Ther 's price in price the Censors honors give He giveth friendship poore alone doe live Q. But are they not more frequent from adverses A. Yes Q. Give example A. Cicero Syl. Neither doe I understand my selfe to have beene angry But if I defend him whom thou accusest why should I not be angry with thee who accusest him whom I defend hee saith I accuse mine owne enemy and I said I defend my friend So primo Tusc But when as they confesse that there is force enough in vices to cause a miserable life why should it not bee granted that there is force enough in vertues to effect a blessed life Q. It should seeme by this that contraries are sequences of contraries A. So they are Q. What may further be comprised under this head A. Sometimes there is put forth like for like Q. Give example A. Such is the contention of the shepheards in Virg Aeglog 3. Damaetas first of all putting forth this riddle Tell in what place and I will herry thee For great Apollo's selfe the welken large Iust three els broad and no more seemes to bee And Menalcas answering in this other riddle Tell in what place the flowers have their marge With kings names in their leaves inscribed plain And to thy selfe take Phillis for thy paine Q. Give example of feigned equalls A Feigned equalls are such as is in Aeschinus Sacraticus wherein Socrates sheweth Aspatia speaking to Zenophons wife Zenophon himselfe Tell me I pray thee thou wife of Zenophon if thy neighbour should have better gold then thou whether hadst thou rather have hers or thine hers said shee And if shee have a goune and other womens garments of a greater price then thou whether hadst thou rather have hers or thine hers said she Goe to then if she have a better husband then thou had'st thou rather have hers here the woman blushed But Aspatia spake to Zenophon himselfe I pray thee said shee if thy neighbour have a better horse then thou had'st thou not rather have his or thine His said he but if he have better ground then thou whether had'st thou rather have his His said hee viz. the best But if hee have a better wife then thou hast whether had'st thou rather have his or thine And here Zenophon also himselfe held his peace CAP. 18. Greaters Q. What are unequalls A. Vnequals are those of which the quantity is not one Q. What be the kindes of unequals A. Vnequall is greater or lesser Q. What is greater A. Greater is that which quantity exceedeth Q. What be the proper notes of it A. Not only but also I had rather this then that more also by grammaticall comparison Q. Give example A. Cicero pro Mur. There is taken from amongst us not onely that verball counterfeit of prudence but also that Lady of things Wisedome it selfe The thing is carried by force not onely the hatefull Orator in pleading or the pratler but also the truely good is despised A horrid souldier is loved Q. Is not a certaine logicall gradation sometime ioyned with a rethoricall climax taken from hence A. Yes Q. Shew example A. Pro. Mil. Neither did he so handle himselfe to the people onely but also to the Senate neither to the Senate only but also to the publique president and souldiers neither to these alone but also to the power of those to whom the care of