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A01009 Purgatories triumph ouer hell maugre the barking of Cerberus in Syr Edvvard Hobyes Counter-snarle. Described in a letter to the sayd knight, from I.R. authour of the answere vnto the Protestants pulpit babels. Floyd, John, 1572-1649.; Jenison, Robert, 1584?-1652, attributed name. 1613 (1613) STC 11114; ESTC S115113 123,366 230

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be purged Doubtlesse Syr Edward the iustest man falleth seauen times a day (l) prou 24. he that saith he hath no sinne light and veniall as S. Augustine expoundeth is a lyar (m) 1. Ioā 1. who can say that his hart is pure from vaine impertinent thoughts His tongue cleane from idle vnprofitable speach His hands not defiled at least with omissions and slouth and negligences in Gods seruice Doe you see your Iust cannot be in this life without Dust 25. But you answere indeed S. Paul saith haec fuistis but he addeth sed abluti estis but you are washed but you are sanctified but you are iustified in the name of the Lord Iesus and by the spirit of our God This is indeed to alleadge Scriptures for your purpose You speake of washing and cleansing yet except you haue washed away with wine from your tongue this foolish not to say impious abusing of Gods word I dare say your lippes still need to be purged which you seeldome wet I feare in the bath of teares and pennance Are you not skillfull at Scriptures that apply that sentence which was spoken of (o) 1. Cor. 6.11 without which grosse synnes as whoredome theft extorsion and the like which the Corinthians before baptisme committed by baptisme were cleansed from them to the daily veniall offences without which the iust man doth not liue But faith is say you (p) pag. 85. sperandarum rerum hypostasis the ground of thinges to be hoped for from Christ wheras we will haue it thus fides est ferendarum rerum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the ground of things that are to be suffered by our selues Thus you I perceaue your Protestant faith is very weak we must not lay any great burden on it of things to be suffered by your selues lesse it breake but of things to be suffered by others as much as we will you can easily endure that others suffer so you be well your selues I much feare that this your faith fainteth in the assured expectation of eternall punishments for grieuous synnes which cannot indure the beliefe of temporall payne for lesser offences I do not now wonder you haue reiected Fastings Pilgrimages Disciplines Hayrecloathes Lying on the ground rysing in the night to pray and sing psalmes to God liuing in perpetuall Chastity wresling with the lustes of the flesh No maruayle I say though you reiect these things your faith is not a ground of pennance nor of any mortifications to be vndergon by your selues 26. Christ must suffer all for you you will not be partners with him in his Passion yet you will share with him in his comforts you will not by your good will haue your finger ake for his loue nor tast the least drop of vinager to purg your sinnefull humours yet will you be as bould as any other except his Iustice keep you back to put your nose into the sweet cupp of his Glory But true faith is a groūd not only of hope but also of feare As it teacheth vs to expect a full reward if we fullfill Gods commaundements so likwise to be sure of heauie punishments if we contemne them As Christ came downe from Heauen to dye for vs on the Crosse so faith telleth vs we must take vp our crosse a small taske of sorrow and pennance and march after him to Heauen True faith is not an idle beholder either of Heauen or Christ but vrgeth vs to walke by good workes towards the one and by pennance to feele some part of the passion of the other yet is faith defined the ground of things to be hoped for not of things to be suffered by vs or of things suffered by Christ because Christs sufferings for vs and ours in loue and imatation of him are but meanes to conduct vs to God the blessed end hope aymeth at for hope and faith being Theologicall vertues haue for their obiects not Christs sufferings nor our owne but God alone other things faith and hope doth regard only as they are pertinent to God These answeres Syr Edward I feare are to graue both for your head and faith neither will the one vnderstand nor the other beleeue my discourse I labour in vaine either to build pennance or Purgatory on your faith or to beate true learning and diuinity into your head 27. Yet you go forward preaching very grauely to leaue our bitter Purgations and me●ily drinke away our sinnes laying all on Christs back S. Paul say you (q) pag. 85. 86. thought it inough to know Christ and him crucified but he is a dullard in your Schoole that knoweth not Purgatory and how he must there be purged As if the Lords Sommer-liuery of euerlasting life were giuen vs only with this prouiso that vnlesse we play the Taylers our selues and make it vp by our Purgations it must neuer come to our backs Thus you Much do you feare I see least you be forced to play the Tayler with a discipline to measure therwith your shoulders and out of the broad-cloath of Christs merits with that sharp payre of sheeres to cut out a Purgatory garment for your owne back Yet I dare say S. Paul was such a Tayler who did not beate the ayre but chastice his body (r) 1. Cor. ● still carried about with him the Mortification of Iesus Christ (ſ) 2. Cor. 4 that he had the Markes of his Passion in his flesh (t) Gal. 6. to which participation with Christ in paine he may seeme to exhort when he bids vs feele the same in our selues that we see in Christ Iesus (u) Philip. 2. who subiected himself to the death of the Crosse What more frequent in this Blessed Apostle then to exhort mē to the loue of the Crosse to suffer for Christ to praying fasting giuing of almes and other Penitentiall workes 28. This is indeed to know by experience Christ crucified wherof you talk in the ayre I assure you that a discipline or a whipping for a quarter of an houre would make you conceaue more deeply of Christs bitter Passion better vnderstād the great loue he bare you in deliuering you from eternall payne giue you to know your Sauiour either fastened to the Pillar or to the Crosse more perfectly then euer did any Protestants Sermon you heard or meditation you made in your life Had you euer tasted any drop of the sweetnes of Christ crucified you would neuer haue sayd reioycing in your competent Patrimony (x) Counters p. 65. Ditescit cui Christus dulcescit He becometh rich to whom Christ crucified becommeth sweet Such sweetnes did not S. Paul feel in Christ by whose crosse the world to wit riches honour were crucified (z) ad Galat 6. that is were things most hatefull to him The sweetnes of the Crosse wrought otherwise in the blessed Apostles who tastinge thereof left voluntarily and gaue all to the poore Look vpon the Primitiue Saints (a) Antony Hilarion Benedict others you shall
are found in a penitentiall life which are so great that S. Augustine out of his owne exprience of both saith More pleasant be the teares of pēnance then any recreation of playes (ſ) Dulciores sūt lachrimae poenitentium quàm gaudia theatrorum August in Confess Seuenthly that to redeeme our sinnes we might more carefully supply the necessity of the poore purchasing vs frēds by sinfull Mammon (t) Luc. 36. that when the soule flitteth from the body they may receaue her into the eternall Tabernacle Finally and principally that hedged in by fyre we might run with armes spread abroad to imbrace Christ crucified and seeke to be like to the forme by which we are saued crucifiyng our bodies with the concupiscences thereof (u) ad Galat 5. which is one of the principall thinges which in gratitude he requires of vs. 39. What S. Augustine said of Hell fire vnder paine whereof God commandeth his loue (x) l. 1. confess c. 5. Quid mihi es Miserere vt loquar Quid tibisum vt amari te iubeas à me nisi faciam irascaris mineris ingentes miserias Hei mihi Paruáne est ipsa miseria si non amem te Lord what am I that thou shouldest command me to loue and threaten eternall punishment if I loue thee not Is it not misery enough of it selfe not to loue thee the like might we say of Purgatory which bindeth vs to tast by imitatiō more abundantly of Christs sweet Crosse then else happily many would Lord what are we that thou wilt haue vs cōformable to the figure of thy crucified Sonne That thou dost force vs with fire to tast of his sweetnes Can any greater felicitie befall a man then not to be like vnto that heauenly Patterne To liue an idle and wanton limme of that body whose head is pierced with Thorns (z) Non decet sub spinoso capite membrū esse delicatum These meditations Syr Edward were they as frequent in your minde as are prophane iests rife in your mouth Pēnance Satisfaction and bearing part of Christ his passion to purge sinne would not seeme so burdensome to your faith neyther would you thinke such endeuours iniurious vnto Christs bloud whence they spring and take their vertue yea perchance you would preferre our Catholik Pēnance Purgatory before your Protestant pleasant life and heauen on earth whereof I should conceaue greater hope did not vaine and worldly delights hold you backe more strongly then the misapplied textes of Scripture you pretend THE FIFTH CHAPTER THE MIRACLES of the B. Virgin at Hall and Sichem AND OTHER CATHOLIKE MIRACLES ARE PROOVED Authenticall against the Prophane iestes of the Letter and Countersnarle And that they cannot be Antichrists Wonders THE last Squadron of the fower enemies your Letter mustreth against Purgatory are prophane iestes which sauour of Irreligion These runne so fast from your penne that either it preuenteth your thoughts or your thoughts be deeply taynted with that most deadly corruption I will here alledg an example or two thereof which conteine more Atheisme then I hope you did perceiue therein when you let them passe to the print You are very inquisitiue to know (a) Lett. pag. 79 in what degree of eleuation of the Pole Purgatory is seated How many myles from the infernall Cape Beda's ghoast say you cōmeth somwhat neer the marke in his Card who placeth it vnder the earth in the suburbs of Hell yet Alcuinus may be belieued as well who peremptorily maintayneth that it is scituate in the Ayre Hence you conclude quod vbique est nullibi est it is in so many places that indeed it is in no place This is the assault or onset by which you seeke to beate Purgatorie out of the world But the Captaine Maior of your argument repeated againe in your (b) pa. 17. Counter-snarle to wit qui vbique nullibi who is euery where is indeed no where if it be true is able to beate God into nothing who cannot be conceiued without immensitie or a being euery where if you belieue not the royall Prophet who could find no place in heauen or earth or hell to ly hidden from his sight and presence (c) Psal 138. v. 6.7.8 perhaps you will credit your Poet who singeth Iouis plena sunt omnia Sea Earth Ayre Heauen all things are full of God 2. But taking your Proposition in the best sense to wit that the thing might be iustly thought not to be which learned men cannot tell certainely and determinatly where it is yet is the impiety therof exceeding great For do not Deuines both Catholiks and Protestants disagree about the place of the soule after separation from the body About the part of the world wherein God sheweth himselfe to his Saints May one thence inferr quod vbique nullibi That the soule after her diuorcement from the body is in so many places that she is indeed in no place Doe not learned Christians likewise dissent about the situation of Hell Some say Diuells and Men are punished in the Ayre others vnder Earth In so much as S. Augustine sayth (d) Lib. 20. de Ciuit. c. 6. In qua mundi parte sit futurus infernus hominum arbitror scire neminem nisi fortè cui spiritus diuinus ostendit In what coast of the world Hell is placed I thinke no mortall man can tell except perchance the spirit of God hath reuealed it to some will any true Christian argue in your forme Hell is in so many places that it is indeed noe where I think not Neither would you bring the doubtfullnes of Purgatories distance frō the infernall Cape as a reason to make away with it did you not want either Religion in your hart or true diuinitie in your Cape 3. Another example of prophanesse and want of Religion you giue in your perpetuall Iesting at Miracles which confirme any point of Religion especially this of Purgatorie which Miracles you tearme (e) Lett. p. 40. 41. such graue Miracles that it would make a horse breake his haulter to see them And in the margent you say yea Bellarmins deuout Marc which your wanton Hobby named only to beget a foole on her thought you might better haue turned him loose to Balaams (f) Num. 22. prudent Asse where perchance he might haue learned this point of wisdome that there is a God whom euen bruit beastes feel and in their manner serue and adore who is able when he pleaseth to make thē bray more wisely thē you do speak 4. But no where do you shew your prophanesse more then in scoffing at the miracles of our B. Lady of Hall registred by Lipsius which you deride in so rude a manner as it may wel seeme you did both read Lipsius his story and write your owne letter (g) Lett. pag. 102. rosting crabbs by the fire side A Miracle cōcerning a Faulkner deliuered from death by her mercifull intercession Lipsius (h) c.