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A62456 Just weights and measures that is, the present state of religion weighed in the balance, and measured by the standard of the sanctuary / according to the opinion of Herbert Thorndike. Thorndike, Herbert, 1598-1672. 1662 (1662) Wing T1051; ESTC R19715 213,517 274

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succession of persons is of less consideration being subordinate to the succession of Faith and Laws as the means to the end And then I say that supposing a necessity of Ordaining because they who refused the Reformation would not Ordain to that purpose And supposing the Reformation to bee that which God requireth There is cause to presume that the intent which those that agree in it declare supplies by Gods goodness that nullitie which the want of Power to Ordain would otherwise infer For those mistakes of less consequence which humane weakness must needs commit in a work of such weight as it were malice in man to justifie so it may well bee thought mercy in God to excuse This presumption there is that the Churches thus constituted are true Churches And the Offices ministred by persons thus qualified effectual to convey the Grace of God to Christian people But wee suppose in our case that Presbyterian Ordinations tend no more to the exercise of true Christianity then of that which the Church of England hitherto professeth And wee see with our eyes that the authority that maketh them destroyeth it self by destroying the authority of their Bishops from whom it claimeth And therefore to imagine that an Assembly of Divines by being lawfully Ordained to the office of Priests or Deacons according to the Laws of the Church of England can by Commission from the Secular Power make Ordinations which the Laws under which they were Ordained forbid is to imagine that God can inable man to sin or that a Sovereign Power can authorize the Subject to rebell against it self And therefore though the qualities of persons to bee sent you for Pastors may bee otherwise limited by Acts which Parliaments may make yet these qualities not being derived from the authority of the Apostles founding the Church by any act of the Church but from Secular Power and Commission issued from it make them no more Ministers of the Church that are made by Assemblies of Divines and Presbyteries then those that are made by Commission of Triers and for ejecting scandalous Ministers That is both of them being by their creation Schismaticks and their profession not clearing them of misprision of Haeresie they can no more bee acknowledged by those that pretend to adhere to the Church of England then Belial by Christ or darkness by light Hereby then you may conclude how to receive those whom the Presbyterians may send you for Pastors by any change in the Secular Power For I charge not them that they do not believe the Church which they would bee themselves I acknowledge that they secure you from all Sects but themselves But in as much as they maintain Predestination to life onely in consideration of what Christ hath already done or suffered for the Elect in so much I say that they do not nor can Baptize into the Cross of Christ that is to say into the hope of Salvation in consideration of the Covenant of Baptisme For that which is absolutely due as salvation is due to the elect by the gift of Gods Predestination cannot bee burthened with any condition of Christianity afterwards Nor can hee who is once sure to bee saved without that condition which Baptism inacteth bee bound to fight against the flesh the world and the Devil for the keeping of Gods Commandments under the profession of the Christian Faith for the obtaining of that which hee is sure of before And therefore their Baptisme is no effectual Baptisme before God if Baptisme received in the Church of England bee such that is to say it is no Baptisme but by Equivocation of words in as much as the obligation of a mans Christianity is not declared or understood to take hold of him by virtue of it For seeing the hope of salvation which Christians have by their Baptisme is grounded upon the condition of their Christianity that Baptisme which promiseth salvation without providing for this condition is no Baptisme but by equivocation of words I say further that the change which they call Reformation visibly tends to introduce that monstrous imposture of two Sermons every Sabbath in stead of the daily and ordinary service of God together with the more solemn service of God upon Festivals and Lords days and other extraordinary occasions which the Church of England with the whole Church of God from the beginning hath maintained so far as there was means to maintain it I will not here insist upon the order of Bishops and their chief power in their Dioceses as of Divine Right that is instituted and introduced by the Apostles Let the Presbyterians think themselves privileged to erect Altar against Altar upon so desperate a Plea as now they insist upon that the Presbyteries are rather of divine right then the chief Power of Bishops in their Dioceses I insist now only that this Power of the Bishops was not against Gods Law which every man must grant me that acknowledges a Church in England from the Reformation till now In this case they who to introduce this Christianity and this publick exercise of it transgressing that authority to which they were called by the visible act of the Church of England take upon them to share that Power from which they had their authority among themselves and to execute it by consent among themselves in their several precincts cannot bee said to constitute a Church by virtue of any act of the Apostles or any authority derived from such act but by virtue of their own act as all Apostates and usurpers do That is to say that they do not constitute such a Church by being a member whereof a man may reasonably assure himself of salvation upon any principle of Christianity but such a Church as is indeed no Church unless it bee by equivocation of terms but a conventicle of Schismaticks with the misprision of the Haeresie aforesaid And therefore their Priesthood is no Priesthood their Eucharist is no Eucharist unless it bee by equivocation of words but Sacrilege against Gods Ordinance Besides that what is requisite to the consecration of the Eucharist or wherein it consists they seem to bee as secure of and as little to regard as the most ignorant of those Sects into which the once common name of Puritans stands divided at this time Neither is it in any Secular Power though never so unquestionable to cure these nullities and incapacities in the pretense upon which they take upon them to bee a Church Though for the present they are not so much as authorized to the world by any privilege or penalty enacted by any Secular Power but only protected by that which now possesseth Whereby the world may see that there is nothing but their own usurpation and the consent of those whom they have debauched to their Schisme for them to subsist by under the pretense of a Church And that they will by virtue of their Original bee as malignant to any Secular Power that shall not maintain and
Keyes viz. that of loosing but bind not as pronouncing absolution without injoyning of Penance The discipline of Geneva they magnifie indeed as they find it described by Bodine in his method of Histories But they distinguish not whether they mean the civil discipline which the Laws of that State inforce or that which the Power of the Keys exercised there according to Calvine doth constitute For the Civil Law of a Christian State especially no bigger then that of Geneva may settle such a discipline over the outward man as may restrain from the outward act of sin without mortifying the inward man to the inward love of God The late Usurpers Army wee have seen well disciplined against the ordinary vices of the Camp Who appearing now to have been then enemies to their Country are thereby discovered not to have followed the reward of Christiens but of Souldiers And the Laws of Christian States by the means of Christianity which they maintain may reach to the mortifying of sin and the quickning of righteousness at the heart But of themselves being Civil Laws and proposing no further reward or punishment then that good which a mans Country signifies they reach no further then the outward man for the better or for the worse Nor is it of any greater consequence to Christianity that the outward act of sin or virtue is repressed or incouraged by the rewards and penalties of Civil Laws But when the discipline of the Church takes place hee who forfeiteth his Christianity by gross sin that is notorious forfeiteth also Communion with the Church and recovereth it not till the presumption bee no less notorious that hee hath recovered his Christianity Now Communion with the Church is the consequence of our Baptisme which intitleth us to life everlasting Therefore it is not duly forfeited without forfeiting the effect of Baptisme our right to life everlasting So our right to heaven depending upon the Communion of the Church the discipline of the Church must needs reach the inward man as effectually as any outward application can reach the heart which is invisible For the presumption is grounded upon visible works of Penance the effects of that invisible disposition without which they could not bee constantly brought forth Whether or no this discipline bee visible at Geneva I will not pronounce This I undertake that comparing the Doctrine of Calvine with their Orders they need not set a value upon the Power of the Keys exercised according to his Doctrine in comparison of the same exercised according to their own Orders So that supposing not granting that the Laws of the Church of England being the Laws of the primitive Catholick Church are to bee changed for conformity with the Reformed Churches it followeth not therefore that they are to bee changed for those of the Churches reformed according to Calvine Certainly the receiving of the Communion kneeling having been one of the Orders of their Reformation from the beginning and so stifly insisted upon by them in Poland they that pretend to change the Law of England in that point for conformity with the Reformation think they have not men but beasts to deal with The Church of England in the Commination against sinners hath declared a great zeal for the renewing of that antient discipline of Penance which was in force in the primitive Church And certainly the Church of England is not the Church of England but in Name till the power of Excommunication bee restored unto it which there was not nor ever can bee sufficient cause to take from any Church But the discipline of Penance though depending upon the Power of Excommunication is as much to bee preferred b●●ore it as it is more desirable to bring men to the Church then to shut them out of it If prejudice and faction have not more to do in the pretenses of this time then the truth of Christianity and zeal to advance it it is a point that cannot bee neglected in any deliberation of Reforming the Church I cannot render a more visible reason why so godly a zeal in those that first prescribed our Reformation to the restoring of Penance hath not been improved by their successors then the partialities which sprung up in it like tares in the wheat and have now prevailed to choke even the power of Excommunication wherein the being of a Church consisteth And though many sinnes of this Nation may bee alleged for the cause why God hath taken this sharp revenge upon us yet can no reason bee so proper why hee should permit the hedge of the Church to bee cast down for all Sects to devour and tread his Vin●yard under foot by suffering the power of Excommunication to bee taken from it as the neglect of improving it in and to the discipline of Penance True it is not only all capital but all infamous crimes whereof men are convicted by Law are thereby notorious and require this discipline no less then those which the Law of this Land punisheth not otherwise then by Penance And if the Church did make a difference among those that dye by publick Justice owning only those who approve their desire to undergo regular Penance in case they might survive then were this discipline visible no visible crime escaping it For all capitall and infamous crimes that are not actually punished with death must by that reason remain unreconciled to the Church though free of the Law till Penance bee done And seeing crimes that are not known cannot bee cured upon easier terms then those that are would not the judgement of the Law authorizing the Church in the cure of known sins move even them that believe their Christianity no further then it is authorized by Law to submit invisible sinnes to the same cure For what is it but the slighting of this cure that makes mens sinnes fester and rankle inwardly and break out into greater and greater excesses And therefore to debate of Ceremonies and words in the service and May-poles and Sabbath days journeyes not considering the Power of the Keyes upon which the Church is founded and the restoring of the same is to neglect a consumption at the heart pretending only to cure the hair or the nails Now if any of our Sects insist upon a pretense that deserves to bee insisted upon far bee it from us to cast off the consideration of it because they have unduely separated from the Church for it Our Anabaptists it is known infist upon two points The baptizing of Infants and that by sprinkling not by dipping In both they have neglected St. Peters Doctrine That Baptisme saveth us not the laying aside of the filth of our flesh but the answer of a good conscience to God For were the profession of Christianity celebrated by the Sacr●●●nt of Baptisme believed to bee that which saveth us men would not go to baptize them as not baptized who by their profession which they acknowledge by seeking the Communion of the Church are under that bond which intitleth them to the Salvation of Christians Nor can there bee any greater presumption then the voiding of Baptisme so celebrated that they expect Salvation upon other terms But in making void Baptisme ministred by sprinkling alone without dipping they neglect St. Peter again when hee maketh the Baptisme that saveth not to consist in cleansing the flesh but in a due profession of Christianity signifying this to bee the principal that onely the accessory Ceremony which it is solemnized with And therefore they are to acknowledge this difference by acknowledging Baptisme so ministred to bee good and valid not void But this being acknowledged well may they insist that it is unduely ministred For it is evident that neithe● the Scripture nor the practise of the whole Church can by any means allow the sprinkling of water for Baptisme though the pouring on of water in case of necessity bee allowed Nor doth the Law of the Church of England allow any more then pouring water upon a Child that is weak commanding therefore dipping otherwise And therefore this Law being much weakned by the tenderness of Mothers and Friends supposing all Infants weak which the Law supposeth not and by undue zeal for Forreign Fashions ought to bee revived and brought into use by all Ordinaries that there may remain no colour for such an offense And therefore reparation is to bee made for the sacrilege of the late Wars in destroying the Fonts of Baptisme in Churches and bringing in Christening out of Basins by force I cannot say that I have touched all that is fit to bee touched But I hope I have said nothing but that which followeth upon the ground which I have justified That which is proposed and is not so justified seems to demand the consent of those who propose it as able to hold the Church divided if they bee not contented But that calls to mind a reason on the other side that men use to get a stomack with eating in such cases The due measure is not the satisfying of mens appetites but the improvement of our common Christianity FINIS Faults Escaped thus Amended Pag. 7. line 2. mistakes Point mistakes p. 40. l. 32. none read now p. 49. l. 16. Church p. Church p. 60. l. 36. Lawes r. Land p. 79. l. 14. of the Judgement r. of Judgement p. 84. l. 34. Trihes r. Tribes p. 90. l. 10. Praedestinarians r. Praedestinatians l. 12. West p. West p. 108. l. 33. Bishop Priest and Deacon p. Bishop Priest and Deacon p. 112. l. 14. Service p. Service p. 134. l. 12. all these r. those p. 143. l. 34. he performing r. the p. p. 145. l. 15. Hierachy r. Hierarchy p. 157. l. 24. prescribled r. prescribed l. 29 30. the the Power r. the P. p. 158. l. 6. Memoral r. Memorial p. 173. l. 37. Order r. Orders p. 179. l. 29. leave r. bear p. 189. l. 31. which r. with p. 201. l. 25. Church p. Church
authorize them as ever they were to that which they have destroyed to introduce this shadow of a Church If it bee objected that your Estates will bee liable to penalties that may bee enacted against those that withdraw from the exercise of the Religion publickly held forth To this I have no answer but that wee are to obey God rather then man to prefer the next world before this and to bear Christs Cross if wee expect his kingdom Only thus much I must observe that these Laws proceed from a profession that it is not lawful to force mens Consciences in matter of Religion by penalties And therefore though the Praelatical party are not protected in the exercise of their Religion yet cannot they bee punished for it but by denying that which is declared upon the publick Faith Besides acknowledging the Christian Religion contained in the Scriptures and professing-faith in God by Jesus Christ they are as much qualified for protection as those that are protected by the Act of Establishment And not to allow the exercise of that Religion the profession whereof is not disallowed seems to bee to forbid men to bee Christians who are not forbidden to bee such Christians and to expose them to popular tumult contrary to the publick peace whom no Law punishes If the Papists continue nevertheless liable to former penalties perhaps it is because they are reputed Idolaters But because these laws and the profession from when● they proceed may change I must confess you cannot follow my advise but that your estate may become questionable Neither would I give it could I assure you of the kingdom of heaven otherwise If you demand what means I can shew you to exercise your Religion withdrawing from the means which these Acts provide I answer that there are hitherto every where of the Clergie that adhere to the Church who will find it their duty to see your infants Christned your children Catechised the Eucharist communicated to all that shall withdraw from Churches forcibly possessed by them whom you own not for Pastors And if they cannot continually minister to you so dispersed the ordinary Offices of Gods Service you have the Service of God according to the Order of the Church you have the Scriptures to read for part of it you have store of Sermons manifestly allowed by the Church to read you have Prayers prescribed for all your own necessities and the necessities of the Church To serve God with these in private with such as depend upon you and are of the same judgement with you leaving out what belongs to the Priests Office to say I do to the best of my judgement believe an acceptable sacrifice to God which you cannot offer at the Church in such case And though I censure not my brethren of the Clergie that think fit to complie with the power which wee are under in holding or coming by their Benefices I suppose in respect to their flocks rather then to their fruits yet if they believe themselves and their flocks to bee members of the Church of England they must needs believe those flocks that acknowledge such Pastors to bee members of no Church and therefore acknowledge you and own your departure and declare themselves to their own flocks and instruct them to do the like when the like case falls out And so the refusing to hear the voice of strangers will unite us to make a flock under those whom wee acknowledge our lawful Pastors I have found my self pressed to Print Copies hereof for mine own use thereby to declare thus much of my judgement to you and to the rest of my friends because the consequence of owning such men for your Pastors will bee to make us members of several Churches Which must disable me to do any office of a Clergie man towards you unless it bee the prosecuting of this by shewing you further reasons to justifie what I say here and to reduce you to it Though it shall alwaies bee my studie faithfully to serve my friends in all Offices of civility And I hope they will consider what appearance there is that any thing should move me to make my self liable to so much harm as the publick declaring of this opinion will make me liable to but the discharge of my conscience to God and them as the case shall require me to discharge it The due Way of composing the differences on Foot preserving the Church According to the Opinion of HERBERT THORNDIKE I Have found my self obliged by that horrible confusion in Religion which the late War had introduced to declare the utmost of mine opinion concerning the whole point of Religion upon which the Western Church stands divided into so many parties And now finding no cause to repent me of doing it can find no cause why I should not declare the consequence of it in setling of that which remains of our differences For middle waies to so good an end are now acceptable meerly as middle waies and tending to drive a bargain without pretending that they ought to bee admitted How much more an expedient pretending necessity from reasons extant in publick and not contradicted The chief ground that I suppose here because I have proved it at large is the meaning of that Article of our Creed which professeth one Catholick Church For either it signifies nothing or it signifies that God hath founded one Visible Church that is that he hath obliged all Churches and all Christians of whom all Churches consist to hold visible communion with the Whole Church in the visible offices of Gods publick service And therefore I am satisfied that the differences upon which wee are divided cannot bee justly setled upon any terms which any part of the Whole Church shall have just cause to refuse as inconsistent with the unity of the Whole Church For in that case wee must needs become Schismaticks by setling our selves upon such Laws under which any Church may refuse to communicate with us because it is bound to communicate with the Whole Church True it is that the foundation of the Church upon these terms will presuppose the intire profession of Christianity whether concerning Faith or Manners For otherwise how should those Offices in which all the Church is to communicate bee counted the service of God according to Christianity And this profession is the condition upon the undergoing whereof all men by being baptized and made Christians are also admitted to communion with the Church as members of it But nothing can make it visible to the common reason of all men what communion they are to resort unto for their Salvation but the visible Communion of all parts of the Church which having been maintained for divers ages of the Church is now visibly interrupted by the Reformation and before by the breach between the Greek and Latin Church And therefore though it bee visible to reason rightly informed what communion a man is to imbrace for his Salvation yet it is not now