of necessarie collection For Logicke would stil iudge whether such meaning could be necessarilie gathered out of such wordes Seeing we are not bound to creditte any writings since the diuine inspired scriptures but so farre as they agree with the scriptures and receiue the light of trueth from them But those auncient writers to whome he would haue vs to referre our selues liued so many hun dred yeares after the Apostles and Euangelists the writers of the new testament as they could no more declare to them then to vs their meaning in their writings and therefore those auncient fathers which ground purgatorie prayer to saintes sacrifice of the altar vse of the crosse c. beside tradition vpon the scriptures as the answerer saith must shew the necessarie collection of them by the iudgement of demonstration seeing they neuer sawe the writers neuer heard them speake nor possiblie could liuing so long after them or els they can carie no credit of necessarie collection outof the expresse wordes of holy scripture As for tradition without scripture since God hath giuen the holie scripture is as good as the credit of men may be without a warrant from God A fourth waie of triall of spirites with him is Councells by which olde heretikes haue beene tried and they are content to referre themselues to all the Christian Councells that euer haue beene since Christ died We acknowledge Christian councells to be a godlie meane to exa mine and trie the spirites but according to the scriptures onelie for matters of faith as in the example of the first Councell of Christendome Act. 15. where the question was determined by authoritie of the scriptures But that the Papists dare abide the triall by al Councells it is false for they admit none but by the Popes consent they admitte nothing in them but that the present Pope doth allow Many Councells in Aphrica forbad appellations to Rome the general Councell of Chalcedon made the Bishop of Constantinople of equal dignitie with the Bishop of Rome the Bishop of Constantinople condemned and accursed a Pope sor an heretike the Pope of that time confirmed it yet now it is not holden for Catholike But I will spare examples vntill this lustie gallant dare aduenture the triall whereof he maketh the challenge But seeing there are many points of controuersies betweene vs and the Papists which in no auncient councell came in question he bobs vs with the last most learned Godlie and generall Councell of Trent which was gathered of purpose for triall of hercticall spirites whereunto all safe conduct being offered we refused to come for triall As though the Catholikes would haue come to the Councell of Nice if nothing might haue beene therein determined but that which pleased Arius or to the Councell of Constantinople if nothing might haue beene concluded but that Macedonius would allow Or to the Councells of Ephesus and Chalcedon if when all had beene saide that which liked Nestorius and Eutiches must haue bene holden for Catholike Such is our case we accuse the Pope to be an heritike yea and to be Antichrist the Pope will admit no councell but where he him selfe is iudge nor any to haue any voice determinatiue but onely such as are sworne to maintaine his heresies and ambition It is great pitie but the Protestants must come to such a councell Such were many councells holden of olde time by heretikes but for the most part not frequented by the Catholikes Some of our profession were at Trent but what entertainement had they euen such as their aduersaries could afforde them they were not permitted to haue any speach but as pleased their enemies wherefore when they saw noe equitie vsed as they could looke for no better before they came they left the heretikes to consult among them-selues by example of auncient fathers in like Chapters of heretikes The sift waie of triall is to referre the matter to the olde Doctors which liued before the controuersies began of which we haue spoken latelie and this we haue often vsed and still vse against the Papists in most controuersies although the authoritie of man is no certaine rule to trie which is the truth of God Augustine against Iulian vsed this waie rightlie first confuting the Pelagians by the authoritie of the holie scripture and then by the testimonie of the auncient fathers also Theodosius also in a case determined by the holie scripture did politikelie circumuent the heretikes after the aduise of Sisinius the Nouatian by the suggestion of Nectarius the Catholike to put them to a foile which had good successe because the others cause was naught But Epiphanius hath a hard saying against vs as our answerer thinketh It is enough to say against all heresies the catholike church hath not taught this the holy fathers haue not admitted this But I wene Epiphanius doth not meane that it is enough to saie so except men can prooue it to be so For els it is aseasy for heretikes to saie so against Catholikes as for Catholikes against heretikes And here out answerer voucheth Epiphanius quoting onelie lib. 2. contra haere but no Chapter of so long a booke wherebie knowing him to be a common foyster we maie well suspect his honestie in this voucher vntill he shew vs in what Chapter we shall finde it The sixtwaie of triall with him is to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersall Church or great multitude of Christians out of which the other part first departed But to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersal Church is no waie of triall but the matter to be tried And the description that he maketh of the Church is as vncerten the great multitud of Christians out of which the other part first departed For the Catholike Church is not alwaies the greatest multitude When the East Church was deuided from the West the one was as great a multitude as the other yea considering the number of prouinces of the East and the largenesse of them it was the greater And one heresie some times departeth out of another as the Rogatians from the Donatists the Eunomians from the Arrians the Iacobites from the Eutichians c. Neither doth Saint Augustine against the Manichecs make the consent of people and the name of Catholike of them-selues to be a sufficient waie of trial but among many thinges which altogether held him beside the authoritie of the holie scriptures he accounteth these which with the truth are a good confirmation but can be no preiudice against the manifest truth as he confesseth in the same place To the iudgement of Vincentius we will subscribe to holde that which euerie where which alwaies which of all hath beene beleeued so hath no point of Poperie Hoc est etenim verè proprièque Catholicum quòd ipsa vis nominis ratioque declarat quod omnia verè vniuersaliter comprehendit For that is truelie and properlie Catholike saith Vincentius which thing the verie force and reason of the name declareth
Such lenitie so lightlie regarded nay so tragically inueighed against as most barbarus cruelty deserueth at the hands of God and man more sharp and yet but iuste entertainment You exclude vs say you from speach conference writing printing disputing or any other due trial of our cause Stil you would haue your cause to be religion when it is high treason And as for triall due for treason is neuer denied you before you be condemned for it As for speach conference writing printing disputing for trial of the cause of religion when you will permit to be free in places of popish regiment you may expostulate with vs for not allowing you the same in this Christian state of gouernment But what extremitie soeuer we vse we are sure say yow allwaies to be answered by one meanes or an other It may be as you saie but you tell vs not when For if you speake of answering our bookes you scarse giue one for tenne Neither do you so disquiet vs by your pretended claime as you mainely boast but we might sleepe on both sides if we had none other busines then to confute your popish treatises And if you had no greater hope in treasonable practises as in your rebellions both in England and Ireland and in your Popes bandes and banners your Saunders your Feltons your Someruils your Parries and such other execrable traitors and treasons then you haue confidence in writing or reasoning you would not looke to see the rooting out of our faith religion which you terme heresie as you do vainly prognosticat and prophecie But our credit you thinke is greatly crushed in our owne conceiptes seing we flie openly and without shame all kinde of quiet triall what soeuer and with furie onely moue the magistrate to violence against you In deed you know your owne cause best where you haue the magistrate obedient at your beck how vnwilling you are to haue any other quiet conference for trial but imprisonment torment fire and fagot And if the same measure were paied you home againe into your lapps it were no more but good iustice and such as you shall surely finde one day according to the prophecy of the holy ghost Rewarde her euen as she hath rewarded you c. when God shall put into the hart of Kings to hate the Romish whoore of Babylon to eate her flesh and to burne her with fire But as yet God calling you to repentance you haue no cause to repine against our seuerity much lesse to condemne vs of violence if you seeke not your owne bane by practising of treason and sedition But how do you openlie and without shame saie that we flie openly and without shame all kinde of quiet triall What lawfull kinde of quiet triall hath not bene offered to you Would you haue conference was there not a moste solemne conference agreed vpon in the beginning of her Maiesties reigne where principall men of both parts haue beene chosen to confer and all the states of the realme assembled in parliament readie to heare And who did there openly and without all shame flie the triall did not the pillers of popery vpon a friuolus cauill misliked by their owne Fecknam giue ouer the combate As for priuate confirence it hath bene many times offered and often practised with such of your heresie as be in holde but of them for the moste part misliked or reiected Triall by writing of bookes hath alwaies bene and yet is open free in so much as many of your popish treatises being confuted by vs are allowed to be inserted into our bookes that the indifferent reader may iudge of both more freely and easily a triall which you papists neuer yet durst enter into and a manifest argument that you flie the most indifferent kinde of triall You haue bene openly challenged by Doctor Fulke to conclude the controuersies of religion that are betweene vs in the strict forme of syllogismes both for your owne ease and for the clearnes and certainty of iudgement and this rea sonable request if you refuse to yealde vnto he hath protested before God and the world that you shew your selues thereby to be enemies of trueth that you flie the light and dare not abide the triall And yet these foure yeares day none of you all hath aduentured that most easie certaine and necessary trial which you cannot refuse if you wil haue trueth to be thought to stand on your side Let wise men iudge therefore whether we refuse all kinde of quiet triall and whether it be not a seditious kinde of triall that you would haue as appeared by Campians challenge who although he were a person too contemptible for yeares grauitie learning or honestie to make so proude a chalenge to all the learned and wise of the Church and common welth of England yet when he was brought to light he was conferred withall by diuerse graue and learned men and tried in the defense of his owne treatise in which God wot he was quickly found to be none other then his familiars alwaies knew him to be that is more bold to challenge then able to defend him-selfe more ready to cauill like a childish sophister then to answere like a sober deuine And as for his constancie patience which you magnifie with so many wordes in his iust execution for treason which you falsly terme martyrdome for your false religion there is smale cause you should boast of it but that it is necessarie where you cannot be borne out with trueth to breake through with open lyes For manie hundrethes of eie witnesses can testifie against you that of his patience which yet had bene perforce there was no sufficient trial by torment or sense of bodelie paine at his death other then is vsual to al that be strangled with an halter But as for constancie or cherefull passage vnto his death it appeared lesse in him then in any of his fellowes but rather great tokens of deiection and consternation of his minde bewraied in his colour countenance voice and gesture plainly noted by such as knew his stomach courage lusty behauiour when he was in prosperity That he his complices would acknowledge no guilt of treason whereof they were so cleerely conuicted it maketh their death more detestable sheweth their hipocrisie more damnable who seeing it was necessary for them to die as traitors desired of their fautors to be honored as martirs declaring thereby intollerable rancor and malice against the prince and the state and no lesse pride ambition in them-selues Of such Martyrs boast as long as you will you shall neither get credit by them when their cause is knowne nor terrifie vs with reuenge of their blood when their punishment was iust HEtherto belike you haue spoken to al that abhorre Popery in general for now you will speake aword or two to Master Charke as to his owne person in particuler And two things you tell him of that in this matter
texte of corruption testifying that the auncient reading was CAROV which signifieth they haue pearced which Mazorites said Master Sherwine And so much touching the comparison betweene Master Campian and Master Sherwine in whome as there was litle helpe for your cause so we thinke you haue lost noe greate aduantage by their taking away out of this life But let vs see what be the wordes of your publike challenge We request you yea we coniure you either for trueths sake if you seeke it or for your owne credits sake if yee will retaine it that you yeald vs after so much sute and supplication some equall triall either by writing preaching or disputing Although we should not yealde either to your requeste or to your 〈◊〉 we might haue that loue of trueth and care of our credit which becommeth vs. For trueth hath bene so well and long tried to be on our parte that our credit in mainteining thereof cannot be cracked if we should altogeather refuse any new triall For why should you be admitted after 24. yeares to any new triall which refused in the beginning so lawfull and solemne a triall as the like in any memorie was neuer offered in this lande what sute or supplication you haue made I knowe not except you meane the seditious challenge of Campian which was caste about as a lible to erect and stirre the wauering mindes of your inconstant disciples into expectation of some great alteration not lawfully and orderlie deliuered to them to whome it was intituled as an humble sute or supplication Againe there is noe reason that vpon any sute or supplication there should any further triall be graunted vnto you that haue beene alreadie so often conuicted condemned in the cause as though the matter were stil in question or doubt with vs but onely in respect of some weake and doubtfull persons vnto whose infirmitie in hope of their satisfaction and full resolution something may be yealded For what wise man would graunt to the Manichees Arrians Macedonians and such other absurde heretikes so long since condemned at this time any new triall or iudgement by publike disputation preaching or writing although they did neuer soe importunatelie craue it yea as you doc adiure and coniure them to it And seeing you are so indifferent as you pretend to enter into any equal trial either by writing preaching or disputation what maketh you so vehement in calling for triall when one of these waies neither is nor can be denied vnto you namelie triall by writing yea you haue beene prouoked and challenged to the most equal way of triall by writing which is by syllogisme to trie how you can vphold any of your heresies by vs condemned whereunto you are now the rather to be called because you complaine that Campian was not suffered to oppose Set downe your syllogismes in the defense of any article of controuersy that you holde against vs or in oppugning any point of doctrine that we hold against you either in writing or in print so as they may come to our handes you shal receiue a speedie and a readie answere This triall you may haue without daunger sute or charges if it were triall and not treason that you sought to practize vnder pretext of publike trial by preaching or disputing Els what neede you be so importune for anie equall triall when this the moste equal the moste easie the moste profitable triall or way of triall for finding out and iudgeing on which side trueth doth stand neither is nor can be taken from you There is noe reason in the world you say but onelie feare that may mooue vs to denie you this your request But they that be wise can easilie iudge that there is great reason to denie you anie such request where your purpose is knowne to be sedition and not triall neuerthelesse your request of triall by writing is not denied you as I haue saide before vse it then when you thinke good and make no more babling of triall if you seeke nothing but triall and be indifferent to take anie of these three kindes of triall The reason of the state you saie which is alleadged against your request is mosts vaine For what can a peaceable disputation graunted you for religion indaunger our state but onelie it may chaunce to discouer our errors and so make the hearers detest our state of heresie You carie peace in your mouthes and swordes in your hartes I haue touched some reasons alreadie they that gouerne the state can saie much more As for peaceable disputations vppon controuersies in religion are dailie practized in our scholes for excercise sake in which all the arguments you can bring are vrged as vehementlie as you your selues can doe in peaceable manner and are so clearlie auoided either by the answerer or at lest by the moderator as all reasonable hearers may plainlie see that we stande for trueth against 〈◊〉 and heresie and if anie do wauer in opinion vpon so manifest euidence of trueth he iudgement without that we stand of triall that are readie to abide stand with our duetie and is demonstration of trueth As for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you doe once againe require that obteine for you whatsoeuer you is well knowne to be but a 〈◊〉 for an other purpose then triall of trueth whereof if you were so desirous as you would seeme to be by your challenge and so indifferent to accept anie of the three before named kindes of triall as in wordes you did so latelie make shew you would not be so importunate for this kinde of triall by disputing which is not like to be graunted vnto you lest it might be surmised that we would be content to bring our faith into doubte and disceptation refuse the safest the quietest and the best kinde of triall that is offered vnto you which is by writing You fare like a cowardlie russian which knowing a man to be bounde to the peace will make no end of bragging and challenging him to fight but if anie man that is at libertie offer to trie a blow or two with him he is as colde to the combate as he was before hotte to the challenge You offer your selues to the labor charges and perill of life and yet you aske for your safeties such a warrant from her Maiestie as the late councell of Trent did offer to all protestants of the world If you offer your selues to the perill of your liues what need you anie warrant for your safeties except you thinke her maiesties warrant is no better then such as is giuen by popish Councels and princes which notwithstanding anie safeconduits leagues truces or warranties of safetie are at their libertie to make contrarie Canons and to execute most cruell burnings massacres and murthers of Gods saints and innocent lambes which haue committed their liues into such faithlesse tyrants hands But God be praised her highnes honour hath neuer bene blemished with the least spotte of vnfaithfulnes that you should seare
such like being Papistes might write eleuen score lies against Luther Zuinglius Oecolampadius Caluine Beza and the rest Concerning the reporte of Prateolus that Luther should be begotten of a deuill you saie Master Charke greatlie bewraieth his fasehoode and after you haue set downe the reporte of Prateolus vnperfectlie you praise his modestie and blame the bolde impudencie of William Charke in saying he auoucheth that which he auoucheth not But where doth William Charke faie that Prateolus doth auouch it his wordes are of a slaunder laid downe against Martin Luther how he was begotten of a deuill which you confesse that Prateolus reporteth as he doth in deede out of Coclaeus and Cocleus out of other mens writings whether Prateolus him-selfe doth credit it altogether or no it skilleth not this slaunder among other he laieth downe against Luther and fauoureth the reporte of other so farre that he woulde haue it seeme credible but as for saying that he auoucheth it Master Chark speaketh not one whit Let the Reader therefore iudge who bewraieth his falsehood in this point and vppon whome the reproch of bolde impudencie maie iustlie be laid But Master Charke sheweth as great fullie as impudencie if we beleeue you in making mention of such a foule matter whereupon at the least remaineth a shamefull suspicion In deede it is the triumph of slaunderers if they cannot kill with their stroke yet to leaue a scarre where the wound is healed Although the slaunder of a matter so impossible leaueth no suspition in anie mans head that hath anie witte or vnderstanding in it but discouereth the malice and follie of the inuenters of such monstrous slaunders yet you affirme that the probabilitie of the thing seemeth to haue beene so great in those daies as Erasmus beleeued it But here you go asfarre beyond the modestie of your author Prateolus as ere while you charged Master Charke to be runne For his wordes are these Adhans historiam alludere alicubi Erasmum non est à vero alienum to this story it is not altogether vnlikelie or straunge from the trueth that Erasmus doth in some place allude he saith not that Erasmus did beleeue it No he is not able to prooue that Erasmus did obiect it For the speech of Erasmus is onelie of certaine vncleane speeches where with he complaineth that he was vniustlie charged by Luther in that vnmodest epistle which you translate drunken Now saie you if Master Charke will stand vpon the deniall not so much of the fact as of the nature of the thing it selfe as impossible that spirites can so abuse lewd women that will consent to their lustes you will oppose against him S. Augustine which saith it were impudencie to denie it and Ludouicus viues vpon the same place Sir Cauiller the thing in question is not whether foule spirites maie abuse the bodies of lewd women for beside the authoritie of Saint Augustine who standeth moste vpon testimonies we haue the testimonie of Wierus a man verie expert in such matters who maketh reporte of diuers Nunnes so abused by vncleane spirites yea of diuers Nunneries in which manie were so dealt with all and namelie a notable nunnerie in the borders of the prouince of Collene where the deuill in the likenes of a dogge in the daie time was seene to fall vppon them in moste beastlie manner about 26. yeares agoe Also the Nunnerie of Nazareth in Collen Anno 1564. where the Nunnes in most filthie manner suffered the same illusion oftentimes in the presence and sight of manie But the matter in controuersie is whether Luther were begotten of a Deuill in deniall where of Master Chatke doth stand becuase it is impossible that although the Deuill should abuse the bodie of a woman yet that a man should be borne or gotten by such illusion which neither Augustine affirmeth nor Ludouicus Viues And if you dare auouch that the deuill can begette a childe as it seemeth you would draw your argument to prooue the probabilitie of Luthers conception by such deuillish abusement we will be bolde to saie that you are worthie to be whipt out of the Schooles of Philosophers Phisitians and Diuines if you dare not abide by it to what end do you oppose Saint Augustine and Ludouicus Viues against him Touching the matter of the thunderbolte you saie Master Charke denieth it stoutlie confidentlie and I knowe not how But in trueth Master Charke saith that it is of it selfe vncredible that you saie Luther was stroken with a thunderbolte which would haue taken awaie life or lefte a marke behinde it Neuertheles you williustifie your saying by testimonie of Malancthon who saith he suffeted great terrors that yeare in which he lost his com panion slaine I know not by what chaunce and by Luthers owne confession that he was called by terrours from heauen and for feare of death vowed to be a frier yet neither of these doe prooue either that he was ouerthrowne or striken with a thunderbolte The reportes of Lindane Prateolus and such like you cannot enforce vs to beleeue who sought by all meanes to deface both the person and doctrine of Luther But whether he were ouerthrowne by lightning as Prateolus saith or by feare seeing his fellow flaine by the same and so vowed a superstitious vow it is not greatlie materiall That the deuill cried out of his mouth we hold it still for a verie fable vntill you bring better proofe then the report of Luthers aduersaries Lindane and his fellowes Your ribaudrie termes of Luther coping with a nunne and your blasphemous scoffing ofhis lying with a nunne in the Lord I cōmit to the vengeance of him that is the instituter of holie matrimonie That many of the auncient fathers iudged it vnlawfull for vowed persons to marrie it is not denied of our parte but then it is to be vnderstood of them which maried not for necessitie but for wantones and for such as made vowes aduisedly not rashlie voluntarilie and not by compulsion For of them that could not conteine after they had vowed virginitie I haue shewed before the plaine testimonies of Saint Hierome and Epiphanius Now are we come to those nine articles of Doctrine with which you haue charged Luther how iustlie we shall see by by The first is that you affirmed Luther to teach that there is no sinne but incredulitie neither can a man damne him-selfe doe what mischeefe he can except he will refuse to beleeue To this Master Hanmer answereth that all sinnes proceade of the roote of incredulitie as al good workes from the roote of faith but this you will not vnderstand and bring in a contradiction of Master Charkes which doth pronounce that in wordes and matter you reporte an open vntruth And so you doe for any thing that you bring in your defense For Luther saieth not absolutely but in comparison that there is no sinne but vnbeleefe as our sauiour Christ sayth to the Pharisies if you were blinde you should
acceptus est quemadmodum paulò pòst dicemus omnibus sacrarum literarum candidatis qui adhue nonnihil propter parabolae obstacula haerebant omnem nebulam discussit c. There remained yet not the lest endeuour namelie that we should bring forth examples which wereioined with no parable Therefore we began to thinke of all that we could to vnfolde all that we could but yet none other example came to minde but that is set forth in our commentarie or els whatsoeuer came to minde was like vnto those examples But when the 13. daie drew neere I tell the trueth that so true that though I would conceale it my conscience compelleth me to vtter that which the Lord bestowed vpon me being not ignorant to how great reproches and scornes I lay forth my selfe when I say the 13. daie of Aprill drew neere me thought as I was a sleepe that with great tediousnes I was againe disputing with the scribe my aduersarie that my mouth was so stopped that my tongue denying her office I was not able to speake out that which I knew to be true which trouble as dreames are wont sometimes to mocke men in the deceitfull night for here I declare no higher matter then a dreame as cōcerning my selfe although it is no light matter that I learned by this dreame thankes be to God to whose onelie glorie I vtter these thinges which vexation I saie seemed to trouble me vehementlie Then sodainlie there seemed an admonisher to be present with me whether he were blacke or white I do not at all remember for I tell a dreame which said why dost thou not thou coward answere him that which is written Exod. 12. For it is the paschall which is the passeouer of the Lord. Immediatlie as this sight appeered I awoke withall and leapt out of my bed And first I considered the place in the Seauentie Interpreters on euerie side and thereof before the wholl congregation I preached as well as I could Which sermon when it was heard as soone after we shall declare draue awaie all mist or want of vnderstanding from all those that were studentes in the holie Scriptures which vnto that time did somewhat doubt because of the obiection of the parable Thus farre Zuinglius by whose wordes you may easelie perceiue what proofes he receiued of his Doctrine of the Sacrament of a spirit by night as our defender saieth when he sheweth onelie that he was admonished by Gods prouidence in a dreame ofthat example Exod. 12. in which the trope or figure is manifest being also in the doctrine institution of a sacrament whereunto the Lords supper doth most properly answere which is vsed in the words of the Lords supper this is my body without anie such parable as was obiected vnto him in the other examples Where he saith that he remembreth not whether the aduertiser were white or blacke he meaneth no more as all men that know the prouerbe must confesse but that he remembreth not what he was whether knowne to him or vnknowne of whom he dreamed that he receiued that example The same prouerbe he vseth not long before in the same discourse of him that disputed against him who whether he was white or blacke that is what manner of man he was he would not describe Surius quarelleth against him that he would attribute so much to a dreame when otherwise he will admit nothing but holie scriptures whereas euerie reasonable man may see that he admitteth no Doctrine vpon the bare credit of a dreame or of the admonisher were he whit or blacke but is onelie put in minde by a dreame of a place of holie Scripture that serued to stoppe his aduersaries mouth and to remooue all doubt from them that were nouices in the studie of the scripture And this is a thing that manie times commeth to passe that a man which earnestlie studieth of anie matter shall in his dreame be admonished of some better waie then he could thinke of waking Which when he hath considered to be the best for anie good purpose he neede not to doubt but that it came vnto him by the prouidence of God without being afraide to follow it because he thought of it first in a dreame What Luther thought of Zuinglius it skilleth not seeing as he was stiffe in his error of the carnall manner of presence so he was apt both to thinke and speake worse then the trueth was of all them that held the contrarie The last two were Caluine and Beza of whome it is needles to saie anie more then hath alreadie beene setforth in their defense in print these two yeares with out replie of anie papist Although God be praised the Church of England dependeth neither vpon these not vpon other men further then they were faithfull interpreters of the worde of God according to which our faith is framed and not after the decrees of men Concerning the death of Martine Bucer welknown in England whome the papists abroad as they doe of the rest imagine to haue died a foule death our defender quarrelleth with Master Charke for belying of Lindan and charging him to saie that Lindan auoucheth it where he onelie reporteth as he hearde of certaine worshipfull Marchants of Colene But in trueth Master Charke saieth not that Lindan doth auouch it but onlie that by vttering his false reports he maketh Bucers death as horrible and monstrous as may be suspected Pontacus the popish historian vttereth a like report as the defender confesseth that he died a Iew denying the Messias Surius addeth another tale that he circumcised his sonne begotten of I know not what woman Thus these lying papists heape lies vpon lies and when they haue neither sufficient author nor probabilitie of trueth to beare them out then certaine worshipfull Marchauntes then a certaine graue and most excellent learned man then some of Bucers owne disciples are the reportes vnder which cloake it is an easie matter to forge anie slaunder and turne ouer the enuie of it to the man in the moone in the meane time to burthen men with suspicion of infamie among credulous persons where no proofe of their false accusations can be demaunded and obtained Touching Bucers inconstancie The defender out of Surius and other of that stampe gathereth manie thinges peruerting to vnstedfastnes of iudgement what soeuer Bucer did saie laboring to make vnitie betweene Luther and Zuinglius Charging him also to recant the article of the baptisme of infants to be vnnecessarie as he had written before vpon the third Chapter of Saint Mathewes Gospell and vpon the 26. of Mathew to aske pardon of God and of the Church for that he deceiued so manie with the heresie of Zuinglius as he calleth it Both which matters are meere forgeries for in those commentaries vpon that Gospell which we haue seene there is no such matter Finallie where he affirmeth that Caluine differed from Zuinglius which Master Fulke in all his writings most impudentlie denieth he
Christ gaue them the holie Ghost But Caluinsaith notso but that authoritie to remit sinnes is graunted to be exercised by preaching both priuatelie and publikelie that is to assure men that God doth remit their sinnes and that the giftes of the holie Ghost were graunted to the Apostles that they might be inabled to exercise that high office and function which giftes no man hath power to giue but onelie God neither doth anie man at this daie receiue them in such plentifull measure but that he maie erre of whomesoeuer he be ordeined or sent to preach Neither doth Caluin require that power of not erring but onelie in them that arrogate vnto them-selues an absolute power to remit sinnes as properlie as the holy Ghost doth forgiue them who we knowe cannot erre in binding him that is to be loosed or loosinge him that is to be bounde as popishe pristes doe which yet presumptucusly and blasphe mouslie arrogate vnto them-selues such power and authoritie That it standeth well with Gods houour that mortall men should ren it sinnes and that Nouatus the heretike was of olde condemned for denying the same and that he was the father of this heresy which denyeth the Priests authoritie THE SEVENTH CHAP. ALLEN Now by all our former discourse the right of remission of sinnes sufficiently prooued to pertain to priesthood some will perhaps count it vaine labour to make more declaration of that which is so plaine or further to establish that by reason which standeth so fast on scriptures But if anie so thinke they see net the wyde waies of heresie nor the manifolde shifies that she attempteth euen there where shee maie seeme to be fullie beaten The simple and the sinfullstand moste in her danger that can not in their lack of intelligence compare reason to reason nor gather one trueth of an other and therefore to their mouthes we must chew all meates verie small els there could be no great need of their further information how this claime of remission of sinnes or the vsisall practize thereof could stand with Gods glorie For being answerable to his ordinance it can not but be agreeable with his honour But because in desperate cases our aduersaries haue taught their fellows there to wrangle vncurteouslie where they can not mantaine reason pithelie I will not onelie serue my cause but sometimes pursue their follie though I doubt not but the wisdome of God shal more and more appeare touch ing his meaning in our matter not alonelie by our defence but a great deale the rather by their discontentation Now therefore intending to declare that this preheminence of priesthood doth nothing abase or derogate to Gods aignitie I think it not amisse to match our new doctours of whome I heare often this complaint with other their forefathers that at once both trueth maie fullie be serued and a yoke of aduersaries ioyntlie drawing against the Church and our saluation may be almost with one breath refuted Our yong masters may be glad to grow so high in gods Church as to be reprooued with them who were condemned thirteene hundreth yeares since and though they be so modest that lightlie they list not crack of their auncestours yet we will not defraud them of that glorie nor healpe our cause by dissimulation of their great antiquitie It is their pusillanimitie I know that they will not often in distresse of their doctrine call for aid of their forefathers who were doubtlesse verie auncient and manie of them within the first six hundred yeares In other causes Vigilantius might healpe in some Iouinian would attend vpon them Manes might do them often high pleasure Iulianus the apostata a prince for their purpose Simon Magus one of the Apostles age would stand by them surelie if our aduersaries had 〈◊〉 they would well neere winne of vs by antiquitie And truelie I can not dissemble with them in this cause that now is in hand they haue one patron against vs of yeares very auncient and of reason much much like vnto themselues Nouatus is his name of whome the followers were called of the Church Nouatians but them-selues liked to be called Cathari that is to saie cleane and vndefiled persons Their opinion was that such as did fall into anie mortall sinne after Baptisme could not by anie man or meanes be assoiled thereof and for that they dissalowed the Churches wholl practize of mercie and remission of sinnes in the sacrament of penance nothing dissagreeing from Caluin that condemneth the saying of Saint Ierome as sacrilegious where he writeth that penance is as a second beord of refuge whereby after shipwrack a man may be saued Neither did Nouatus denie but himselfe might haue mercie and giue pardon after mansfall but the Church could not therein meadle as he thought without singular iniurie to Christ and his onelie prerogatiue And that he ioyneth in this matter fullie with our men that they maie take more comfort on him you shall perceiue by Socrates one of the writers of the Tripartit historie who saith thus Nouatus scribebat Ecclesus ne eos qui Daemonibus immolauerant ad sacramenta susciperent sed inuitarent quidem ad poenitentiam remissionem verò Dei relinquerent potestati cuius solius est peccata remittere Nouatus wrote his letters to diuerse Churches that they should not admitte anie man to the Sacramentes that had sacrificed to Diuelles but that they should onelie mooue them to doe Pennance and committe to God the remission of their sinne who onelie can forgiue mans offences And therefore though in some other point Nouatus did ouerpricke his children yet herein they fullie meet in one Epiphanius writeth that he denied saluation to those that did fal to greeuous crimes after their Christendome and therewith did holde that there was but one penance which was done in baptisme after that the Church to haue none How hansomelie he defended this error and vnmercifull heresie ye shall see anone by Saint Ambrose who learnedlie followed and chased him or his followers in an wholl worke written for that purpose In the meane time it were good for the more credit of the man and his cause to note with the auncient Doctors of his daies his conditions his comming vp his proceeding and practizes S. Cyprian who was most molested with him knew him best geueth him this praise Nouatus was a man that delighted much in nouelties and newes of insatiable auarice a furious rauin with pride and intollerable arrogancie almoste puffed past him selfe knowen and taken of all Bishoppes for a naughtie packe condemned by the common iudgement of all good Priestes for a faithlesse heretike curious and inquisitiue them to betraie for to deceiue alwaies readie to flatter in loue neuer faithfull nor trustie a match euer fired to kindle sedition a whirle winde and storme to procure the shipwrake of faith and to be short an aduersarie to tranquilitie and an enimie of peace These were his conditions then FVLKE In the latter
prooued by this place to haue bene in vse in his daies here is no mention thereof Finallie where you would build the antiquity of works vpon this mans authority to be as high as the Apostles I must tell you that by this place you can not albeit the Epiflle were graunted to be writen by the Areopagite For he calleth not Demophilus a Munke as Perionius translateth the word but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a seruant or inferior minister I knowe that Maximus and Pachymeres expound that worde to be meant of Munkes and that this Dynoise also elsewhere nameth Monachos that were in his time but his time was farre vnder the Apostles as is prooued inuinciblie by this argument that neither Eusebius nor Hierome nor Gennadius maketh mention of anie such workes extant in their time of Dyonisius Areopagita and therefore it is certaine they were counterfaited long after vnder his name ALLEN I can not stand vpon euerie point which greeueth me much my matter is so fruitfull and one worthie witnes is yet behinde S. Clement I meane him that S. Peter made his successour Si fortè saith he in alicuius cor vel liuor vel infidelitas vel aliquod malum labenter irrepserit non erubescat qui animae suae curam 〈◊〉 confiteri ei qui praeest vt ab ipso per verbum consilium salubre curetur quò possit fide integra bonis operibus poenas aeterni ignis euadere ad perpetuae vitae praemia peruenire If either enuie or infidelitie or anie other greeuouse sore priuilie possesse mans soule let not him that hath anie care of his saluation be ashamed to confesse it to him that is his Prelate that through his word and counsell he maie be healed of his sinnes and that in true faith and good workes he maie escape hell and attaine to euerlasting life Thus Saint Clement FVLKE The points are not so manie that you should proue but you might haue leasure enough to stand vpon them your matter is so passing barren that for lacke of authenticall writers you are driuen to praie aid of impudent counterfeiters as of shameles and vnlearned asses which counterfeyted the Epistles that goe vnder the name of Clemens and that without either wit or learning or likelihood of trueth For who would thinke that the holie man Clemens could not write his minde in true latine who would thinke that such barbarous latine was written by the bishoppe of Rome at that time when boyes and girles did speake a hundreth fold more pure latine what wise bodie would thinke that Clemens the Apostles schooler would take vpon him to teach the Apostle Saint Iames and that such bables as of keeping the sacraments from myse dong and rottennes nay not onelie to teach him but to giue him charge à principio Epistolae vsque ad hunc locum de sacramentis deleganti bene intuendis vbi non murirum stercora inter fragmenta dominicae portionis appareant neque putrida per negligentiam remaneant clericorum From the beginning of this Epistle vnto this place I haue giuen in charge of the sacraments to be well looked vnto where no mise â—urdes maie appeere among the fragments of the Lords portion neither maie they remaine rotten through the negligence of clarkes This is that worshipfull Clemens that prescribeth confession to a Priest I besech thee reader as Erasmus saith what wit shame or honestie haue they that will beare men in hand these Epistles to be written by so auncient so holy so wise so learned fathers in which is nothing but follie barbarousnes ignorance and impudencie The conclusion of this treatise remoouing the impediments of confessiòn ALLEN THus far in despit of heresie and al her abbettours hath trueth brought it selfe By Christ power was giuen to the Apostles and Priests to remit sinnes by Christ confession was instituted by the Apostles it was commaunded to all Christians by their example all nations faithfull afterward haue vsed it by generall Councells which be of moste soueraigne authoritie it hath bene both confirmed and commaunded by all learned Doctors liked and allowed by all Christian people frequented reuerentlie as the onlie refuge after their relapse Therefore whosoeuer shall see this case so cleare and so consonant to all reason to all learning to all the examples of antiquitie and to Christs owne institution let him schoole his conscience as he thinketh good FVLKE As a cowardlie traitor that is fled out of the battell wherin he had greater care to hid him selse frostrokes then to fight to attaine the victorie when he thinketh him selfe to haue escaped daunger ceaseth not to brag and boast of his valiant actes and strong aduentures in defence of his Prince or countrie so it fareth with you For as though you had fought vnder truthes baner you boast of the victorie against heresie whereas you haue serued heresie done your indeuor against the trueth striuing for nothing so much as that heresie might change names with trueth But they which will you voutchsafe to consider with how litle labour you haue bin encountred and chased out of the field will be able to discerne trueth from heresie and to giue trueth her true name of trueth and heresie her right name of heresie But let vs see what great matters this Champion of trueth hath brought to passe First that by Christ power was giuen to his Apostles and their successours to remit sinnes this victorie indeed is soone archiued against them which neuer withstood this tlitle But what manner of power this is and how to be executed by sentence definitiue or declaratiue according to the will of God or man and by what meanes it is exercised by preaching the Gospell or by murmering of words wherein trueth controulleth heresie you haue broughtnothing to fortifie your errors Secondlie you saie that confession was in stituted by Christ and yet haue no word in the scripture to prooue that popish confession to a priest after your position was either instituted or allowed by him The like I saie of the commendation of shrift to all Christians Neither haue you prooued the necessitie of confession by the example of anie faithfull nation that vsed it and allowed it nor by anie Christian generall councel before the Lateran councell gathered in the name of Antichrist to maintaine his pride and abominable heresies neither hath anie one learned Doctor for 500. or 600. yeares after Christ liked or allowed of confession according to your popish definition thereof much lesse that by all Christian people it was reuerently frequented lest of al that confession is the onelie refuge I meane confession alwaies to a priest for Christians after their relapse which most absurd proposition I thinke few learned papistes will maintaine sure I am manie of the Elder papists haue denied holding that by contrition of heart men might obtaine remission of sinnes without confession of the mouth to a priest Wherfore he that seeth
to shewe me the first vser therof much lesse that it was euer controlled by any man that euer was counted Catholike it may be measured according to the necessitie of the time and so as the Church may be most edified FVLK I. The qualification that you now prescribe differeth not a litle from that seueritie of your former exacting of penance or at the least a counterpoise thereof to make pardons beneficiall That the decale of deuotion should make pardons more common in these latter times there is no reason but rather that pardons should cause deuotion to decaie For the nature of men is to be best affected to that which is moste easilie obteined and where there is hope of impunitie to be lesse carefull in offending But you would haue pardons seeme to be as olde as Gregorie the first by authoritie of Pantaleon a Lutheran who could not know what Gregorie did but by relation of other stories why doe you not therefore cite some auncient credible storie that iustifieth as much of Gregory For Pantaleon doth not aduouch what Gregorie did but what the late popish writers ascribe vnto him But though it be not auncient to graunt such pardons yet you saie it is cleare that the thing itselfe is lawfull although of this clearenes you haue as yet made no demonstration You saie further that no Protestant is able to shewe you the first vser thereof If that were true yet thereby pardons are neither prooued auncient nor lawfull But what if Gregorie were named For I will not name Boneface the eight seing you make challenge of Gregorie whome can you shewe that vsed to graunt such pardons before him Although in trueth you are not able to prooue that Gregorie graunted such pardons oranie Pope after him for 400. yeares Your third assertion that these manner of pardons were neuer controlled by any man that euer was accounted Catholike is a sophisticall caption and petition of the principle For manie are true Catholikes that are not so accounted and the Pope with his papists challenge to be accounted the onely Catholikes which of all other are the greatest heretikes ALLEN And thankes be giuen to God the effect of the loue of Indulgences and the contrarie issue of the contempt thereof doe well prooue the Churches good meaning therein For if you view both parties well you shall perceiue more profitable deuotion more Christian charitie more furtherance of common wealthes causes in that side that feareth paines for their sinnes with the Prophet Dauid euen after they be remitted and therefore seeke for all meanes moste humblie by mans ministerie to receiue mercie in one yeare you shall see in these deuoute persons more fruites of repentance then in a wholl old mans life can be found in all the other side that contemptuouslie disdaine or scornfullie deride the moste profitable vsage both of penance and pardons in Gods Church Therefore in so great proofe of the benefite that proceedeth from this kinde of remissions for so Alexander the third aboue foure hundereth yeares since termed Pardons vsed then to be giuen in dedication of Churches and vpon moste assured groundes that it well agreeth both with Gods worde and practise of the primitiue Church and neuer condemned of anie but of such as be themselues worthely condemned of other great heresies and errors the Magisirates will shew mercie still in Christes behalfe and all the holie Byshoppes succeeding lawfullie the Apostles of Christ will giue peace and benediction to such as humblie aske it at their handes and if the parties be worthie their peace by Christes promise shal rest vpon them if they either contemne it or be vnworthie of it then no harme done it will returne to the giuers againe FVLKE Although this argument of the effectes especialie when they are assigned to a wrong cause is no sufficient proofe of the lawfullnes of a thing where an euent is taken instead of an effect yet doe we vtterlie denie this assumpt that more profitable deuotion ' more Christian charitie more furtherance of common wealthes is in them that holde of pardōs then in them that vpon true confidence of Christs satisfaction doe despise them Let the experience of the six yeares of Kings Edwards reigne and the fiue and twentie yeares of her Maiesties moste Godlie and prosperous royall gouernment make triall decide the controuersie in the erection of of hospitalls prouiding for the poore setting vp of schooles and amplifying of the vniuersites relieuing of straungers redeeming of captiues such other workes of Christian charitie fruites of repentance in which although it must be cōfessed to our shame that we haue bene more slacke then our holy profession requireth yet will we giue ouer the aduantage offered of one yeare against fourescore and ten which is an olde mans age and ioyne issue vpon equall time of Queene Maries reigne or any other time of Poperie since pardons haue beene in price Prouided that the maintenance of superstition and Idolatrie in which the worlde hath alwaies beene mad be not accounted a Christian worke or fruite of repentance Ad hereunto that such workes as haue beene done by ours proceeded of a free loue to God and thankefullnes for his mercy not of a seruile feare or couetous desire of reward wherin mē shew the loue of themselues more thē the loue of god That Alexander the 3. who was somwhat aboue 400. yeares ago calleth pardōs vsed to be giuen in dedicatiō of churches remissions it prooueth no more the fulnes of thē then that it is not lawful for the pope to tread vpon the Emperors necke as the said Alexander did vpon the Emperor Frederike before the gate of S. Marks church at Venice But by the same rescript or de cretal epistle of Alexander the third in which mention is made of remissions it appeareth that such pardons were then but new come vp because the Archbishop of Canterburie could not resolue himselfe neither by his owne learning nor by the clergie of all Englands iudgement how farre they did extend therfore was faine to send to the Pope of Rome for the resolution It is in the decretals of Gregory in the title by you named cap 4. inscribed Arch episcopo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Quòd autem consisluisti vtrum remissiones quae siunt in dedicationibus Ecclesiarum aut conferentium ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aliis prosint quà m his qui remittentib subsunt hoc volumus tuam fraternitatem senere quòd cùm à non suo indice 〈◊〉 nullus raleat vel absolui remissiones predict as illis prodesse 〈◊〉 modo 〈◊〉 quib vt prosint propris indices spiritualiter vel specialiter indulsirunt To the Archbishop of Canterburie Whereas thou didest aske me counsel whether remissions which be graunted in the dedication of Churches or to them that confer to the building of bridges doe profit any other then them which are vnder their iurisdiction that doe remit this we will thy brotherhoode to holde that where is