their own Prophets said The Cretians are alwayes lyers evil beasts slow bellies This witnesse is true wherefore rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith Now if the Apostle did quote a Heathen Author to confute error surely it is no sin for a Minister now to quote Authors to confute error Also the Apostle writing to Timothy of false teachers saith Of this sort are they which creep into houses and lead captive silly Women laden with sins Now saith the Apostle as Jannes and Iambres withstood Moses so do these also resist the truth men of corrupt mindes or judgements and reprobates concerning the faith Now I would know of you where you read in the Scripture of Jannes and Jambres withstanding Moses wherefore it is supposed that Paul did read it in some ancient writing and did alledge it for conviction of those false teachers But I know you cannot indure Antiquity because you know you have taken up a new Religion which none of the ancient Fathers knew nay I believe you cannot produce any modern Writer that ever writ in the maintaining of your new wilde opinions and is it to be supposed or imagined that the truth of the Gospel hath been hid a thousand six hundred years and that Christ had no Church upon earth till you Quakers sprung up which â—â—th been but of late years if so then Christ ceased to be a Head or else he was a head without a Body which is folly and madnesse for any man to imagine But I shall shew you hereafter of what antiquity many of your opinions are and so passe from your fourth ground and come to your fifth ground that The Ministers are no lawful Ministers because they take money for Preaching or Tithes or Glebe lands or Augmentations But say the Apostles preached freely to all which I shall give you answer And first I shall lay down this for a ground from the Apostles words that God hath ordained that they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel and this Christ and his Apostles taught contrary to you Quakers opinions for Christ when he gave his Apostles their charge to go abroad to preach the Gospel commanded them to take or provide neither silver nor gold in their purses nor scrip for their journey nor coats nor sâ—aves for the workman is worthy of his meat so that Christ did promise to the Disciples a sufficient maintenance for meat drink and apparel at that time when there were very few that durst professe the Gospel After Christ Ascention when the Gospel was more spread abroad the people sold their Land and Houses and brought the money and laid it at the Apostles feet and Ananias and Sapphira having sold their possession and kept back part were strook dead and do you think the Apostles were not maintained out of that common stock after that the Apostles had gathered Churches he complained of the Church of Corinths backwardnesse in allowing him maintenance saying Have not we power to eat and to drink and to lead about a sister a wife who goeth a warfare at his own charge who planteth a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit for it is written Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the Oxe that treadeth out the corn doth God take care for Oxen or saith he Is it not for our sakes altogether that he that ploweth should plow in hope if we sow unto you spiritual things is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things do we not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel And the Apostle saith That he robbed other Churches taking wages to doe the Corinthians service That is to speak plainly the Apostle did take maintenance from other Churches when he preached to the Corinthians and so many Ministers at this time take maintenance from other Churches because the Parish or people unto whom they preach are not able or not willing to allow them sufficient maintenance which I know of a truth Also many Ministers have the greatest part of their maintenance from a few honest godly persons when many of far greater abilities and that of right ought to pay far greater share pay far lesse and many in a Parish to my knowledge neither give nor pay any thing towards the Ministers maintenance and many but four pence a year for their whole families in which sense many of our Ministers may say they rob other Churches or Christians to do other service and yet you Quakers cry out that all our Ministers are Hirelings and false Prophets because they â—â—ke wages or yearly stipends and may you not 〈…〉 say so of the Apostle seeing he saith of himself that he did take wages also the Apostle writing to the Calatians saith Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things but few that are taught do so communicate unto their teacher as Luther complaineth in his Sermon upon the same verse in his time for Satan saith he can abide nothing lesse then the light of the Gospel therefore he goeth about with all main and might to quench it and this he attempteth two manner of waies First by lying Spirits such as you are and then by Poverty and that he endevours by withdrawing the Livings of the Ministers that they being oppressed with Poverty and Necessity their persons and ministery should be brought into contempt or forced to forsake the ministery to work for their livings and so the people being destitute of the ministery of the Gospel should become in time as savage and wilde beasts where he complaineth of many Magistrates Noblemen and Gentlemen who take away the Church goods whereby the Ministers should live and turn them to other uses And I could wish that we in England had no cause to take up the like complaint I hope I have not offended you in quoting what Luther writeth seeing he was one of the greatest enemies the Papists ever had and therefore I hope no Popish Father But to proceed mind what the Apostle writeth to Timothy Let the Elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour especially they who labour in the word and doctrine Now that the Apostle doth mean by one of the honours the honour of maintenance is plain by the words following for the Scripture saith Thou shalt not muzzle the Oxe that treadeth out the corn and the labourer is worthy of his reward and the Apostle in the same Epistle saith That a Bishop or Elder must be given to hospitality Now if a Minister must live upon the Charity of others himself have shall he have wherewith to releive others and by given to hospitality can be no other thing meant Also the Apostle saith If any man provide not for his own family he hath denied the faith and is
believe in Charity that they are honest hearted and strict in their lives and yet through ignorance and the fair shews and pretences of a strict holy life are seduced and drawn away but I hope not so far gone but that they may be reclaimed and brought back to the truth To that end I desire them seriously to examine what I have written by the Scriptture rule and if they can shew me my error by that and that their religion is more agreeable thereunto I shall lay down all my weapons and joyn with them for I strive not for victory but for truth but if they cannot I hope they will remember from whence they are faln and repent and do their first works but if any of them are so obstinate that they will go on in their delusions my soul shall mourn for them in secret but I hope better things at least of some The fifth reason why I writ and published this was to strengthen such as are wavering through ignorance and weakness For I observe that when the Quakers come into a Parish to vent their errors many ignorant people are ready to hearken to their errors and be taken with their pretended shews of zeal and holiness and when they see none to oppose them nor answer them they are ready to think and say it it is because they are unanswerable which I have heard some say in the place where I live the which did move me to enter into disputation with them several times until they gave over their meetings there and what I have written is the same that was spoken in reasoning with them more inlarged and I hope the reading hereof may be a means to stablish and settle some that are wavering and keep them from those baits and snares which are laid to draw and catch them by these seducers The sixth reason was to clear my self from those lies and slanders raised by some Quakers as that they laid me in the dirt and that because I was not able to answer them I was a great persecutor of them the truth of which I refer to the impartial Reader to judge and some of them have reported that I am faln from those Principles that I formerly held and and published in a Treatise of the grounds of Religion called The Christians Profession the truth of which I refer to those that have read the same that shal read this And although I know it is their usal manner to revile and slander all that oppose them in their wild opinions yet I see too many are apt to believe what they say because of their pretended shew of holiness and some think them so perfect that they cannot erre wherefore lest my silence should be taken for a confession of being guilty I thought it necessary to publish this to clear clear my innocencie for if a man be bound by the law to pleasure the good name and credit of his neighbour surely he is bound by the same law to preserve his own Lastly the reasons moving me to publish this in print was first the desire and request of several friends to whom I was ingaged to grant their desires in what might be for their and the publick good 2. Because if I had onely sent a written Coppy to the Quakers they would have kept it from the knowledge of such whom they feared might be drawn away from them would have rais'd several fals reports I could not have had so many of my friends who are Quakers have had the sight thereof because I could not have gotten so many written Coppies because of the largeness thereof so that it would have been like the Tallent hid in the earth 3. Because I conceive it may be more profitable by being in many hands then in a few Although I know I shall thereby incur the revilings of some and the mocks and scoffs of others and the sensour and judgeing of many all of which I am contented to pass through so that my poor labour may be profitable to any And I know some will Object That I spent more time then I needed in regard I have written not onely against the Quakers but the Anabaptists also who write nothing to me I Answer That they do so nearly joyn together in some things as that I could not Answer the one without the other For the Quakers both in their Printed books and in their Disputations doe make the Baptism of Infants their great objection against our Ministers and Churches also the Quakers and Anabaptists are both of opinion in denying the lawfulness of singing Psalms and some Anabaptists agree with the Quakers in hearkning to Revelations and impulses of the Spirit and in hearkning to a light within them in things contrary to the light of Scripture and they agree in opposing our Ministers and Churches with great eagerness although in many other things they disagree and oppose and are contrary to one another Like Sampsons Foxes whose heads were all contrary one to the other but they were tied together by the tails with a fire-brand to set the corn on fire Even so do those Quakers and Anabaptists seem contrary one to the other and oppose each other and yet they knit and unite together to set the Church on fire by their fierce and fiery opposing our Churches and Ministers witness the severall books written and published by the Anabaptists against our Ministers and their maintenance as John Can his book called The first and second voice from the Temple and several others cmpared with Jona Dell his book called A voice from the Temple and several others by which it appears that they agree in one in opposing our Ministers because they knew if they could destroy the Ministery it were an easie matter to perswade people to any Religion as a man that hath lost his guide in a wilderness may easily lose his way Also who knoweth not that the Anabaptists were the first Original from whence the Quakers came for most of the Quakers were first Anabaptists as Mr. Baxtar hath at large proved wherefore considering how these agree in several opinions practices I have by the way as I found occasion written against their errors not their persons Also some will Object against my writing against the Quakers because they say they are a people that live very strict holy lives 1. I Answer That for their strict holy lives I refer the Reader to those ten Particulars I have proved against them 2. I Answer That the holyness of a Christian life doth not consist in Negatives only but in Affirmatives as well as Negatives now that they doe live in the neglect and contempt of many Christian Duties commanded by Christ and his Apostles is plain by what I have written 3. I Answer That the living a strict moral life only doth not prove them nor manifest them nor any other to be Christians for many heathens have done as much as Histories relate and many Papists have walked with as
been convinced and called out from among them and that by being reasoned with and reading some books written against their errors and who knoweth whether God hath not a purpose to call others out from amongst them and who knows what God may do by small weak means and if the Lord please to convince one soul I shall think my labour abundantly satisfied Secondly I say that there is some hopes of stablishing some that are wavering and that I have had experience of in some that have been ready to close with them that by reading and conference have been setled again in the Truth Thirdly I say That supposing neither of these prove yet I shall not think my labour lost because in Answering them I have written severall Fundamentall Truths in writing which I found much benefit to my self and it may be that some may receive some benefit in reading which shall be my Prayer to God and then I know my labour is not lost in writing being written at such leisure times as I could best spare from other Imployments And I hope that some may find some spare time which they may spend in reading as I did in writing Desiring all that read may lay aside all prejudicate Opinions and accept of the good will of him whose desire and Prayer is that the Gospel of Jesus Christ his Ministers and Ordinances may be defended and maintained and all Errour Heresie Superstition and Idolatry suppressed and destroyed J. G. To John Howard one of the Quakers Teachers and all such as plead for and maintain their erroneous opinions and practices HAving received thy Paper which thou didst read or cause to be read at your meeting in William Bond 's house at Cheeswick and finding in the same many false railing accusations against all the Ministers of the Gospel calling them Parish-hirelings Deceivers and false Prophets deceivers for money such as stand up in the strength of the Dragon against the Lamb and in the way of Balam Ministers of Antichrist such who keep people in their sin by teaching that none can be perfect and free from sin so long as they live in this world And for my self to whom you direct your black Paper you do write many false slanders and revileings saying that I came into your meeting in a raging envious manner uttering forth my malice and poyson against the truth barking like a Dog vomiting up my poysonous stuffe and venomous stuffe with many other the like But I may not expect to fare better than my Master for all that have read your Papers or heard your words know that you make it your chiefest studies to utter forth railing cursing revilings against all persons that are not of your opinions But for all such as are of your opinions you call them in your Letter the Servants and Children of the Lord God the innocent Lambs of Christ the holy seed the called the chosen of the Lord the witnesses the Saints the Children of the Light the perfect ones these are your words and many more and that the truth of this heavy charge against the Parish-teachers as you call them and my self may appear and the innocencie of your self and others Quakers may appear unto all that have the Spirit of discerning I shall by the help and assistance of Almighty God vindicate both the Ministers and my Self from your false accusations And that I may keep some Order and Method which you despise I shall first shew the occasion and manner of my coming into your Meeting and shall appeal to all that heard and saw me whether I writ not the truth I hearing thee prate into the next house and into the street that the grace of God did condemn man I came into the Room being much troubled at thy many false non-sensical speeches telling thee that thou didst talk of the Gospel and the grace of God but thou didst not know what the Gospel was nor the grace of God where I did prove that men are saved by the grace of God and that the Gospel is glad tidings bringing peace and that the Law was called the Ministery of condemnation and not the Gospel which thou couldst not gain-say when and where in a peaceable manner I demanded of thee by what Authority thou didst come there to teach thou saidst that God did send thee and that thou wast not sent by men as the Parish Priests were I replied that all Ministers that were lawfully called to Preach now are not only called inwardly by the Lord but by the Church our Office bearers of the Church which I then proved by plain Scriptures which I 've here writ the better to help your memory and the rather because it is one of your Objections that our Ministers as you call them are not lawfully called as the Ministers and Elders in the Primitive time were And that you may the better perswade and delude people that they are no lawfull Ministers of Christ but of Antichrist you do write many reasons to prove them as you think to be the Ministers of Antichrist all which reasons I shall set down in order and then give you the Answer to every perticular Your first Ground you alledge is that they are not called by the holy Spirit and made over-seers by the holy Ghost but by Men. Your second Ground is because they go to Oxford or Cambridge to learn Natural Arts and Languages Hebrew Greek and Latine Logick and Phylosophy Your third Ground because they study for what they say and get their lessons as a Scholar Your fourth Ground because they study old Authors the writings of those called the Antient Fathers Popish Writers as you call them Your fifth Ground is because they take money for Preaching by the year or Tithes or Glebelands or Augmentations Your sixth Ground is because they keep People in their sins teaching none can be perfect nor free from sin so long as they live upon the Earth Your seventh Ground is because of those fruits which do spring up among Teachers and People as pride and many other sins you name These are all your Grounds which I have gathered out of your confused Paper where the same things are often repeated as your manner is both in writing and speaking and now I shall answer your grounds in order which answer in writing is the same in fact which I have formerly spoken to your self and others of your company at your Meetings at VVill. Bond 's house and other places as many other persons which were then and there present can witnesse and I am the rather moved to take this labour of writing that other sober-minded people may judge whether those things spoken were poysonous venomous stuffe barking like a Dog as you write in your Paper and others of your company have spoken Your first ground is because the Parish Hierling-Teachers as you call them are called and made Ministers by men and not by the Spirit and holy Ghost For Answer to which I shall
they are not the abler Ministers but lesse able and yet I doe not deny but they are lawfull Ministers being lawfully called But I wonder that you make these things to be a ground of their unfitnesse which is rather a ground of their fitnesse for do you not read of the schools of the Prophets and Paul doth thank God that he spake with tongues more than they all which he would not have done if it had been a sin so to do and Paul was brought up at the feet of Gamaliel a learned man in all tongues and if there had been no Scholars that had learned the Hebrew and Greek tongues I wonder how we in England should have understood the Scriptures seeing the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the other in Greek and they are not so perfectly translated but that there is need of the Hebrew and Greek tongues to explaine some texts of Scripture And for the Latine tongue how many learned godly men have written severall excellent books in the Latine tongue usefull in the Church which we had neither known nor understood if they had not been translated out of the Latine tongue into English And besides the Latine tongue is a help to Reading and Writing in the English tongue and by this we may see what friends Quakers are to Religion that would have no helps either for understanding or reading But the Apostle saith that a Bishop must not be a novice and the Apostle Peter saith that there are some things in Paul his Epistles hard to be understood which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest as they do also the other Scriptures unto their own destruction and are not you Quakers such unlearned unstable persons who plead against Learning And that you are unstable doth appear because for the most part you have been of severall opinions in Religion running from one opinion to another and now grow obstinate for the most part in your opinions But I know your objection that Peter and the rest Apostles were not brought up at Schools nor had no humane Learning To which I answer that as they had an extraordinary Call so God did in an extraordinary manner endow them with the gift of Tongues as you may read in the Acts of the Apostles where it it said They were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance Now when I see or hear you Quakers have the gift of Tongues to speak all manner of Languages without being taught in a miraculous extraordinary manner as the Apostles had then shall I believe you have such an extraordinary Call as the Apostles had and till then I shall believe you are a company of deluded bewitched people To say no more to this particular but beware the Geese when the Fox preacheth who hath more Subtily then Learning or Solidity And now I shall answer your third ground against our Ministers Because they study for what they teach To which I answer that the Apostle Paul writing to Timothy saith Give attendance to reading to exhortation to doctrine neglect not the gift that is in thee which was given by prophesie meditate upon these things give thy selfe wholly to them that thy profiting may appear to all Take heed unto thy self and unto thy doctrine continue in them and is not Meditation study if you say it is not then read what the Apostle saith in the second Epistle to Timothy Study to shew thy self approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth You Quakers are wiser than the Apostle you say your teachers need not study and Timothy was I believe more able to preach without study than any of your Quakers who take upon them to Teach without study and therefore I marvel not that your Teachers Men and Women speak so much nonsense and use so many vain repetitions of the same things But for dividing the Word or Doctrine which the Apostle exhorteth Timothy to use I never heard among any of the Quakers so oft as I heard them speak also the Apostle exhorteth him that is a Minister to wait on Ministering or he that Teacheth on Teaching the Apostle would that they should make it their businesse or whole work Give thy self wholly to them saith Paul to Timothy I know your objection is that the Apostles preached without study and Paul did work and we Quakers have the same spirit that the Apostles had To which I answer That as the Apostles had an extraordinary Call so they were indowed with extraordinary gifts above any man of an ordinary Calling and although all Ministers have the same Spirit the Apostles had yet have they not the same measure of the Spirit for as the Apostle saith there are diversities of Gifts but the same Spirit to one is given by the Spirit the word of Wisdome to another the word of Knowledge to another the working of Miracles to another Prophesie but all these worketh that one and the self same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will Now if you Quakers have the same measure of the Spirit as the Apostles had why do you not work miracles as the Apostle did when I see that then shall I believe you can Preach without study and tâ—ll then I shall believe you Prate and not Preach And now I come to answer your fourth ground which is that our Ministers study old Authors the writings of the antient Fathers and Popish Writers For answer to which I do marvel how you Quakers know those antient Fathers to be Popish Authors seeing most of their writings are in Latine and you count it a sin for a Minister to learn Latine and surely if you Quakers had formerly learned the Latine tongue yet now you dare not read Latine books wherefore you have no ground to say they are Popish Authors from your own knowledge but from hear-say of others and so you are a false witnesse-bearer But it is no new thing for you to count all men Popish that are not of your wild opinions but if you had not plowed with the Papists heifer you had never known nor learned so many of their errors as I shall prove hereafter you have but I do believe it is lawfull for a Minister to read Popish Authors and to study what they read else how shall they know what they hold and how to confute their errors unlesse they do as you do take all by hear-say But the the Apostle saith Try all things and keep that which is good and the Apostle writing to Titus that he should oppose those that say against the truth for saith he There are many disobedient and vain talkers and deceivers of mindes chiefely they of Circumcision whose mouths must be stopped which subvert whole houses teaching things which they ought not And that their mouths might be stopped the Apostle alledgeth what one of
Minister because the People unto whom he Preacheth liveth in many sins then I say by the same ground you may as well prove that the Prophets and Apostles were no true Teachers for the Lord sometimes sendeth his Prophets among a people not for their conversion but to harden them in their sins and to leave them without excuse Noah was a Preacher of righteousnesse and Preached to the old world to have them repent and yet they repented not but God brought a Floud and drowned the whole World except Noah and his Family and will you say that Noah was not therefore a Preacher of righteousnesse or a true Preacher and afterward was not Noah overtaken with drinking the Wine that he made of the Grapes that he was drunk and yet that sin of his did not prove him to be no true Teacher Also Just Lot so called did labour by Teaching Reproving and Exhorting the Sodomites to repent and turn from their wickednesse but could not prevail and God destroyed them with Fire and Brimstone from Heaven And Lot after that great deliverance fell into grosse sins namely Drunkennesse and Incest was he not therefore a good Teacher Also the Prophet Samuel what pains did he take with the Children of Israel to reclaim them from their sins but could not prevail for the Lord said they have not rejected thee but me was he not therefore a true Prophet Also the Prophet Elias how little did he prevail with the Children of Israel to reclaim them insomuch that he saw none but himselfe that was not fallen to worship Ball saying They have slain thy Prophets and I am left alone Also the Lord said unto the Prophet Esai Go and tell this people Hear ye indeed but understand not and see ye indeed but perceive not Make the heart of this people fat and make their eares heavy and shut their eyes least they see with their eyes and hear with their eares and understand with their heart and convert and be healed Then said I Lord how long and he answered Untill the Cities be wasted without Inhabitants and the Houses without Men and the Land be utterly desolate And the Prophet complaineth that all day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and a gain-saying people And was not the Prophet Isaiah therefore a true Prophet but you will say these were before Christ was come in the flesh Wherefore I shall shew you the same in effect after Christ his coming in the flesh to omit what Christ complaineth of concerning the obstinate Jews in which I might be large only take that one complaint of his O Jerusalem Jerusalem thou that killest the Prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee how often would I have gathered thy Children together even as a Hen gathereth her Chickens under her wings and ye would not behold your houses are left unto you desolate Now if Christ who was God as well as Man complaineth that Jerusalem would not be gathered or converted unto him is it any strange thing that those that follow him do see such small fruit of their labours Wherefore take a view of what followed after Christ his Ascention and after the full accomplishing of Christs promise to send the Holy Ghost The Apostle Paul after he had with much labour by preaching gathered a people in Corinth what fruits did spring up and grow among them there was great divisions and contentions among them every one of you saith I am of Paul and I of Apollos and I of Cephas and I of Christ Also the Apostle saith that it is reported commonly that there is Fornication among you and such as is not so much as named amongst the Gentiles that one should love his Fathers Wife and ye are puffed up and have not rather mourned Also the Apostle complaineth that there were divisions among them about the Lords Supper For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper and one is hungry and another is drunken and was not the Apostle therefore a true Teacher of the Gospel of Christ and was not the Church of Corinth therefore a true Church of Christ according to you Quakers tenets or opinions they are no true Churches in which there are divisions and in which there are any sins and corruptions and so much is implyed and expressed in your Paper where by the way I shall now write something to confute that error of yours in which you are not alone for you have too many that erre with you for company besides Quakers Now I have read several of your Pamphlets in which you write that the Church is in God and is Spiritual and that there is no true Church where there is divisions and where there is sin this Richard Farnworth Burroughs and several other wrâ—teth wherefore I desire you to take notice that the Apostle Paul writeth to these Corinthians and calleth them the Church of God at Corinth notwithstanding those corrupt Members that were among them such as you can scarse finde in the worst of our Congregations Also the Apostle writing to the Galatians calleth them the Churches of Galatia and that the Apostle saith O foolish Galatians who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth and are ye so foolish having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh that is by the works of the Law which the Apostle calleth Flesh Also the Apostle writing to the Thessalonians calleth them the Church of the Thessalonians which is in God and yet the Apostle saith there were some unruly persons among them and some disorderly persons which the Apostle calleth Brethren That the withdrawing your selves from every Brother that walketh disorderly for we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly working not at all but are busie bodies And if any man obey not our word by this Epistle note that man and have no company with him that he may be ashamed Minde Yet count him not as an Enemy but admonish him as a Brother Surely the Apostle wâ—s no Quaker for they deny to call any man or woman Brother or Sister though they walk never so orderly if not of their minde but say they are Heathen this I have heard several of your company speak Also Christ himself unto the Church of Ephesus saith That Thou hast left thy first love and unto the Angel of the Church in Pergamus That thou hast them that hold the doctrine of Balam so hast thou them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which thing I hate And unto the Angel of the Church of Thiatira I have a few things against thee because thou sufferest that woman Jezabel which calleth her selfe a Prophetesse to teach and to seduce my servants like the women among you Quakers that take upon them to Teach And unto the Angel of the Church of Sardis I know thy works that thou hast a name that
Congregation and if any through ignorance doe sing that which is not sutable to their condition may not or must not others in the same congregation sing those things that are sutable to their condition That the Psalmes to be read by such is no sin unless you count reading the Scripture to be sinne and why may they not as well sing them as read them seeing the one is a duty as well as the other they may sing them doctrinal as well as read them doctrinal as the truths contained in the Psalms and such may be convinced by singing them as wel as reading them as in the particulars objected O Lord I am not puft in mind may not a proud person be convinc'd that he ought not to be proud and when a wicked man singeth My heart is bent to keep thy Law may not he thereby be convinced and taught by that Doctrine that his heart ought to be bent to keep the Law That it is ignorance of a mans own condition and of the matter contained in the Psalmes to think or say that the Psalmes are not sutable to our conditions for every Psalm setteth forth either the Attributes and workes of God and his Christ or else describeth the estate and wayes of the Church and People of God or describeth the estate and wayes of the wicked or else it doth lively express mine own affections and afflictions temptations and comfort But whatsoever the matter of the Psalm concerneth either of God or his Christ the godly or the wicked my self or others the good or evil estate of one or other it ever ministreth fit matter and occasion to me of singing forth the prayses of the Lord since the name of God is to be blessed in and by all whether it goe well or ill with our selves or others and I believe that there is no condition the Church is or can be in in general nor no condition which any Member is or hath been in but there are Psalms sutable to the same and several Clerks are able to chuse such Psalms as are fit and sutable for all times and for all states and conditions of the Church and sutable for all Ordinances and sutable to all Doctrines And lastly the general practice of the Churches of Christ is to me a thing much to be considered and that it was the practice of the Churches of Christ after the Apostles dayes several Histories do testifie as Mr. Cotton doth largely prove in his book written in defence of this Ordinance of singing of Psalmes against the Antipsalmist But you follow the Papists your Fathers who are as great enemies to singing of Davids Psalmes as your selves and I could wish that some Protestants were not too much tainted with that Opinion The Papist in contempt of singing of Psalmes call them Genevah Jigs as you Quakers and other Sectaries the brood of Antichrist scoff at our Ministers and people for singing of Psalmes calling them Hopkins Jigs But I hope I have sufficiently proved that we follow the example of Christ and his Apostles and all reformed Churches and that you do sin in not following the command and example of Christ and his Apostles and therefore are not perfect and so I pass from this particular in which I have been the longer in regard I have been so often opposed by you for practising this duty And now I come to a fourth particular in which you walk contrary to the rule of the Scripture and that is your practice in suffering and maintaining women to teach in your meetings which you call your Church Now this practice I have not only heard of but am an eye and ear witness of having heard two several women speak and teach in your meetings where I heard them speak such nonsensical erronious stuff that it is a shame to write it And this practice is justified and maintained in Print by one of their chief teachers Richard Fanworth for so he saith is his name in the flesh who hath written a Pamphlet called A woman forbidden to speak in the Church the Grounds examined the Mystery opened the Truth cleared and the Ignorance both of Priests and People discovered where by the way take notice that where ever the letter of the Text doth speak directly against your errors then you say there is a Mystery in it and that none can open but your selves But where the Letter of the Scripture seemeth to speak for your errours then you say away with your mystical meanings the Scripture is to be understood as they speak according to the Letter which I have often heard from your own mouths and read in your books Wherefore I shall indeavour to prove Mr. Fanworths Mystery opened to be the mystery of iniquity proceeding from the spirit of Antichrist being directly against the Doctrine of Christ contained in the Scripture For saith the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians Let your women keep silence in the Churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the Law And if they will learn any thing let them aske their husbands at home for it is a shame for women to speak in the Church also the Apostle to Timothy Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence Object But you Quakers say that there is a mystical meaning which none know but your selves And that is that by the woman is meant the flesh and by the speaking is meant the Spirit which is in the Saints and that may speak in the Church whether in man or woman male or female this Farnworth writeth in opening the Mystery Also Sarah Blackbury when I alledged the Apostles words to her in William Bonds House after she had been three or four hours there a teaching or prating on the Lords day she made me this Answer thou art the woman for thou art Flesh that is weak and therefore thou art to keep silence and I may speak because I have the Spirit by which the Scripture was written but thou hast not the Spirit and therefore hold thy babling for thou knowest not the meaning of the Scripture To which I replied but what is meant by the Husbands that the women are to learn of and to ask them at home To which Susan Bond answered Christ was the Husband and of him they were to be taught and Sarah Blackbery seemed to like the Answer well for she made no exceptions against it neither can she nor any one else if their doctrine be true that they all have an infallible Spirit and cannot erre else they cannot be perfect for error is sin and I shall prove this to be an error when I have taken away the false Vizzard which you have put upon the these Texts of Scripture Wherefore to shew you your error I shall shew you the great
onely by detaining the Ministers dues from them but by disturbing them in the exercise of their Ministery and of this I have heard several Relations upon which the Ministers for their own quiet were forced to complain to the Magistrates and when they have been brought before them they have abused them upon which severall have been sent to prison and I think justly But that any Ministers committed any to prison for not paying Tithes that I deny and say it is a false lie for suppose that some Quakers in those Countries or other Countries would not pay the Ministers their dues and these Quakers have been sued and the Jewry according to Law hath given their verdiet for payment of so much mony and they refuse to pay but will rather go to prison then pay their dues they put themselves in prison to save their money for neither the Minister nor the Law could put them into prison if they would pay their dues and that Tithes are the Ministers due I have already proved and suppose they were not due of Divine Right yet being due by a Civil right in regard of the Laws and Customs of the Nations I say they have as good right to them as any man hath to any house or land or money and if you plead it is against your conscience to pay Tithes as you do say I say suppose you should say it is against your conscience to pay any money you borrow as I hear some of you have done being asked for money lent have answered what conscience have you to ask me money seeing Christ saith Give to him that asketh if you should be sued and would not pay might not you justly be cast into prison and no sin in him that seeketh his own and I say the case is the same and Christ by his example never taught you to deny payment of Tribute for when they demanded Tribute of Christ though saith he the children be free yet lest we should offend them go and take the money out of the mouth of the fish and give them for me and thee because it was a Law and a Custome Christ would not offend them And by this you see all your great clamours and accusations against our Ministers are proved to be meer lies and slanders with which I shall conclude that you Quakers are not perfect because you do publish so many lies I have proved ten several Particulars against you all of which shall be witnesse against you that you are not the perfect holy innocent Lambs of Christ as you call your selves But you may all confess as it is in our English Liturgy We have left undone those things that we ought to have done and we have done those things that we ought not to have done and there is no truth in us And pray as Christ in that perfect form of Prayer And forgive us our trespasses Though some have said they thank God they have forgotten that Prayer And may not we say so of you as Agur said There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes and yet are not washed from their filthiness But I know your Objection by what I have heard from you in disputing with you and that is that what I speak is not from the Spirit but from flesh and from the Letter that I have read in other mens Books or lines with which you think to wipe off all that I have said or written For Answer to which I desire you to consider and examine what I have written by the rule of the Scripture and if it be not according to that rule or what ever part is not according to that rule I shall confesse it is from the flesh neither do I pretend to an infallible Spirit so as that I cannot erre as you do and I desire you to examine your own by that rule and let that be the Judge between us according to the Prophet Isaiah his exhortation To the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Where mind that the Law and the Testimony is called this word and those that speak not according to this word there is no light in them if no light in them then no Christ in them Now you say all men have the light of Christ in them I say they have not because the Scriptures say if they speak not according to this word it is because their is no light in them So that all men have not the light in them But seeing you say all men have the light of Christ in them I may say then I have the light in me as well as you and why may not or why doth not the light inlighten me to speak or write the truth as well as it teacheth you This I do declare to you and all that shall read these lines that what I have here written is according to that light within me and I hope from Christ the true light For I beleive there are false lights with which many are decieved as there are false fires that leadeth people about in dark nights into bogs and water And I beleive that what you write and speak is according to the light within you But I fear it is a false light that hath led you into many dirty errors It is your own phrase wherefore let what you have written and what I have written be layed to the line the Law and the Testimony and let that be the Judge between us whether the light in me be the light of Christ or whether the light in you be the light of Christ Try the Spirits whether they be of God for many false Prophets or spirits are gone out into the World The Apostle sheweth how to know such Spirits as are of God and such as are of Antichrist Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God and this is that Spirit of Antichrist Now let us examine who they are that deny that Christ is come in the Flesh I say you are they and what I say I shall prove for whomsoever doth deny the end of Christs coming in the flesh doth deny his coming in the flesh But you do deny the end of Christs coming in the flesh Therefore you do deny his coming in the flesh For when the Apostle doth write of such as deny Christs coming in the flesh he doth not mean the Jews or other Heathens which denyed that Christ was come But of such as did confesse that Christ was born of the Virgin Mary and yet did deny he was come in the flesh because they denyed the end of his coming in the flesh Now that the Apostle doth speak of such is plain For the Apostle saith Now are there many Antichrists They went out from us but they were not of us even as
the Scriptures They did not hearken to a light within them to see whether they were true But if you Quakers had such an infallible spirit that you cannot erre as you say you have then all that you speak and write musts need be truth and then we need not examine them by the Scriptures to see whether you write and speak the truth But I am not of that implicit faith to beleive what you write without examining the same by the Scriptures and by them I find you have a falable lying spirit that leadeth you into error but seeing you say you are so infallible that you cannot erre give me leave to examine some of your Books in Print Besides what I have already examined and proved many gross errors in them therefore not written by an infallible spirit so as that you cannot erre I shall examine some particulars in your new Primer made by George Fox the younger and some others in which there is as many errors as Pages I shall mention some few particulars by which we may discern what the rest are of the said Primer Children such are Deceivers who tell you that the way to come to know the truth is by the Scriptures Now if this be a true Doctrine then was Christ and his Apostles Deceivers for they taught the same Christ exhorteth to Search the Scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life and they are they that testifie of me Now if the Scriptures testifie of Christ then the reading of the Scriptures is a means to know the truth unless you deny that Christ is the truth if you do he affirmeth it saying I am the truth It was a true saying of a good man that The whole Scriptures are the swadling band that foulds the Child Jesus Also Christ saith to the Saduces ye erre not knowing the Scriptures Then by consequence the way to avoyd error and to know the truth is by the knowledge of the Scriptures and therefore Christ would have all to search the Scriptures And the Apostle Paul said that Timothy had known the Scriptures from a Child which are able to make thee wise unto salvation and that is by knowing the truth And the Apostle Peter saith We have a more sure word of prophesie whereunto you do well that ye take heed But you are enemies to the reading the Scriptures or expounding them Pag 15 Of the said Primer Children such are no Ministers of Gods word who tell you the Scriptures are the word of God Now if this be an infallible truth then I say the Prophets and Apostles were fallible and were no Ministers of Gods word for the Prophets Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel and most of the small Prophets said that The word of the Lord came unto them and they spake the word of the Lord. I beleive you may find what the Prophets preached called the word of the Lord or God above a hundred times and in the 20. of Exodus God spake all these words and what God spake is Gods word and what Christ spake and preached is the word of God unlesse you deny Christ to be God Also the Apostle James exhorteth Be ye doers of the Word and if any be hearers of the word and not doers c. And do you think the Apostle meaneth the word of man or the word of God Also the Apostle Peter saith We have a more sure word of prophesie whereunto ye do well that ye take heed And if the Apostles call the Scripture the word surely they are Gods word and by the word of Prophesie can be meant no other word I marvel that you Quakers who pretend to an infallible Spirit to know all things do not know that as Christ is called the eternal word of God so are the Scriptures written called the revealed will or word of God or his word revealed As when we write our mind or cause another to write our will or mind to another we are properly said to send word or what is so written to be our word Pag. 33. Of the said Primer That by the blood of Jesus Christ cleansing you from all sin is meant the life of Christ Now I would know where you ever read in Scripture that we are cleansed from all sin by the life of Christ or whether the blood of Christ were ever taken for the life of Christ in Scripture I would fain know your meaning of this dark mystical expression Whether you do believe that the blood which Christ shed upon the Crosse when he suffered without the Gates of Jerusalem be that blood that cleanseth from all sin I know partly your meaning by what I have heard from several of your company and read in several of your Books wherefore that I may shew you what I beleive concerning the same according to the Scriptures mind the Apostle saith Without shadding of blood is no remission And he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself and in the body of his flesh through death to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in his sight And having made peace by the blood of his crosse But I fear you are strangers to this blood of Christ and it is a mystery hid from your eyes who pretend to know all mysteries but they are mysteries of iniquity while you count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing And as you are strangers to this blood of Christ that cleanseth from all sin so I fear you are Ignorant of the life of Christ For I would know whether by the life of Christ you mean the life that Christ lived in the dayes of his converse on earth from the time of his Birth to the time of his suffering death on the crosse or the life he now liveth in heaven or whether by the life of Christ you do not understand the life of a leigned Christ in you or a life imitating Christ his Life I know by what I have heard from the mouths of several and read in several of your books that you are strangers to the true life of Christ mentioned in Scripture and is a mystery hid from your eyes But mind what the Scriptures saith For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son much more being reconciled we shall be saved by his life Wherefore he is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them By which texts of Scripture you may see that we are justified or saved by Christ his life living now in heaven to make intercession for us But I never did read in the Scripture that our sins are washed away and that we are saved by what Christ wrought in us nor by imitating the life of Christ and yet I say that all those who are saved by the blood and the life of Christ have faith wrought in their hearts by the Spirit of Christ