they mighte bee permitted to haue still the Gospels the Epistles and the Creede in their vulgare tongue iâ— which peticion they affirmed that in the Sclauon language it had beene vsed of old in the Church and likewise in their owne kingdome Charles the great called fiue councels namely at Mentze Rome Remes Cabilon and Arelate also decreed that onely the canonicall bookes of the Scripture shoulde be reade in the Church and none other as it was decreed long before in the councell holden at Carthage He â—ame one of them in the whole Church eiâ—her erected for your faith Church and serâ—ice or not prepared for all sortes for cathoâ—ke practises proue to me that it was done â—or any other seruice and religion then ours â—r that they be monuments of any other faith â—r church then that common knowne cathoâ—cke church And I recant Answeare 9. WHereas you demaund What furniture our Congregation euer â—ad c. I must needes tell you that either â—he hauing of such furniture or the want â—hereof are but weake feble argumentes â— proue the true Church of God by In â—utwarde pompe in superfluous ornaâ—ents in vnnecessarie toyes in vaine decâ—ing of your Churches with gold and silâ—er and other precious and costly attire in â—nprofitable rites in furnishinge your â—mples with abhominable idols in pleaâ—ng the eare in delightinge the eye in â—uginge in roaring in toying in trifâ—ng in nodding in becking in ducking â— all such heathenishe shewes and sensles significations wee thinke your Romishâ— Church excelled all idolatrous Ethnicks before and therefore in such superstitiouâ— trifles wee will not compare with you but willingly geue vnto you the preheminence because they be not signes of true religion but badges of Antichriste and furniture to deck the whore of Rome withall For all such kind of trumperie be her very markes As these was none of these toyes in the primitiue Churche neither in anie true reformed Churche sithence that â—â—ine â–ª so there was no Churches vntill the time of Constantine the great who builded churches and moued others to doe the like for the people of God to repaire vnto for to heare the worde of God truly preached to receiue the Sacramentes faithfully ministred according to Christes institution for the same vse and purpose we haue builded Churches and doe continually repaire and reedifie suche as be decayed and â—uâ—nous But vnto the time of Constantine the Christians were violentely and extremelie put to death and persecuted of tyrantes hauing no publike places to resorte vnto but priuately assembled themselues sometimes in dwelling houses sometimes in hollowe caues and dennes â—or feare of the cruel bloudie torments Laurentius Valla saith that in times past before the raigne of Constantine the greate the Christians had no temples but secrete and close places holie little houses but no great and gorgeous buildinges chappelles no Churches oratories within priuate walles no publike and open Churches For your chalices I will onelie vse the saying of Pope Boniface In time past saith he golden Byshoppes vsed woodden chalices but now wodden Byshopps vse golden chalices In like manner in Constantine his time there were no altars of lime stone but communion tables of wood and a long time after as it may easilie be proued by auncient writers Athanasius writeth That the ArriaÌ„ Heretikes in their furie and their rage did carrie foorth and burne the seates the pulpettes the wodden table and boorde and suche other thinges as they coulde gett out of Christian Churches S. Augustine writeth the same of the Donatistes Concerning your vestimentes your catholike practises and all your trumperies and beggerly Ceremonies for which you haue no warrant in Gods booke we way not one rushe Wee hould vs contented with that which Christ our sauior his Apostles and other catholik godly Fathers vsed Did not our sauiour Christ I pray you minister his last supper vnto his Apostles at the table without any further ceremonie euen as the Apostles all true Christians haue done euer more â–ª whose example the Lord grauÌ„t vs to folow Papist 10 I Aske of them whether the Lutherans Zwinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Zwingfeldians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one church or that eche of these sectes may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with the other in high points of our religion or that I should beleeue all these rather then the catholike church or one of these more then an other all makinge such a bould chaleÌ„ge for the truth Gospel Let the protestants of all these conferr together shew me of these things and with all amoÌ„g them selues agree to what sort of these sectes they would haue me I recant Answeare 10 I Do merueile greatly that you impute vnto our religion the heresies of the Anabaptists Swingfeldians seing that wee doe not in our daily sermons inueigh against their blasphemous errours but also haue written sundry bookes to confute the the same You doe aske a verie hard difficult questioÌ„ which you do vtter either for want of wit or lacke of knowledge to wit Whether Caluin c. were of one Churche whether they gaue saluatioÌ„ to their followers It is not in man precisely to define who is of Gods Church for that they only be of Gods inuisible church Whome God hath elected vnto saluation in his sonne Christ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was layd God only doth knowe who are his But it may be that you vnderstand it of the visible church then I will aunswere you accordingly that we are certainly persuaded that they were Gods children and that they ended their life and closed vp their eyes in the true faith of Christe doe rest now in Gods Kingdom Where you seeme to charg them with manifold scismes diuersitie of iudgmentes the truth is that they agreed in all points with the scriptures sauing that Luther in the real presence dissented from the rest which heresie as I haue noted before he receiued of your church of Rome I would not haue you to thinke that we ground our faith and religion or repose any part of our saluation vpon any particular Church or Councel or vpon any mortall man as you do We receiue mens iudgments and writings as they are men and so may erre And so the godly Fathers in times past were reputed and taken S Augustine hath these woordes Wee ought not sayth he to accept the disputations writings of any one be they neuer so Catholik and prayse worthie as we do receiue the canonicall scriptures but that sauinge their reuerence due vnto them we may well finde fault with or reiect some thinges in their writinges if it happen we finde they haue otherwise thought then the truth may beare them so am I in
hath cast away Gods holie â— worshipping images and idols and goâ—horing from God after her owne inâ—ns hath rebelled against the words â— Lord and despised the counsell of the â— high Therefore came the iust iudgeâ— of God vppon her as it did vppon the â—sh church of old Where the Lord saith your iniquities are ye solde and for â—r transgressions is your mother forsaken Againe Pleade with your â—ther pleade with her for shee is not wife neither am I her husband buâ— her take away her fornications c. I make her like a wildernesse and â— her for thirst and I wil haue no pitieâ— on her children for they are childreâ— fornication Loe this is the iudgemeâ— that Romish harlot which hath her dâ—ling in that great citie which ruleth â— the Kings of the earth who hath â— the kings of the earth drunken with cuppe of her fornication who is the â—rie mother of whoredome and of all the hominations of the earth which is druâ— with the bloud of the Saintes and with bloud of the martyrs of Christ who with tenne kings doeth fight against the Laâ— But the Lambe shall ouercome them â— they that be on his side the chosen â— faithful for he is the king of kings and Lord of lords To him be all honour and glorie for euer â— An answeare vnto the â–ª Papist which made this Offer or Challenge Papist CHrist did commit at his departing hence the testimonie of that trueth whiche he 〈◊〉 for the câ—â—uersion of all nations to the beliefe in him â—â—trâ—â— church of God which then stoode â—â—pally and almost onely in the persoâ—â— of â— Apostles and of a fewe moe that by their â—ching and others afterwarde of their â—ng the Christian religion might be planâ—â— all nations coastes and corners of the â—â— Wherefore I aske the Protestant â—t Church that was which conuerted all â—sâ— countries that nowe be Christen to the â—th of Christe and let him shewe me that â—er his Churche conuerted anie people or â—nde in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentiâ—â— or Iudaisme to the true religion of Christ or that this his faith was taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie or anie other Churche but the knowne Catholike Church to haue done this And I recant Answeare TRue it is that Christ did commit the preaching of the Gospell vnto the Apostles and vnto a few moe and gaue them this commaundemeÌ„t That they should go vnto all the world and preach the same Gospel vnto al nations who very painfully executed their office conuerted manie of sundrie countries to the truth Neuerthelesse suche was the rage of the wicked Emperoures Tyrantes of that time that the doctrine of the Gospel was not vniuersally receiued nor generally taught as it appeareth at large by the historie of the Acts of the Apostles as by the assembling of the Apostles in corners by their preaching in the night season in priuat houses Yet we confes that the voice of the Apostles was sounded abroad to al the world so that as Tertullian saith the Parthians the Medians the Elamites the people of Mesopotamia of Armenia c and many other nations and prouinces known vnknowen haue receiued the Gospel of Christ Saint Paule tooke comfort and reioyced in his imprisoment for that there were some euen in Neros court that beganne to geue eare to the Gospell Of the same matter writeth Eusebius that the court of Valerian the Emperour was now become the church of god so he saieth because that some of his familie beleued the truth albeit the Emperour himself was a tyrant Euen in that sense it might haue bene truelie saide that the churche of God was in king Achab his house when wicked Iezabel his wife did most of all persecute Goddes children and when Elias complained that he onelie was left aliue seeing that Obadiah gouernour of Achabs house feared God and fed an hundred Prophetes with the meate whiche came from Iezabels table But for breâ—ities sake I will answeare to youre queâ—ion which seemeth to consist on these two â—ointes First What Church it was which â—onuerted all countries that nowe be Chriâ—ten to the faith of Christe Secondarilie whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie Whosoeuer shall diligently peruse the ecclesiasticall histories or the bookes of the auncient Fathers of the churche they shall easily perceaue with what difficultie Christianitie was embraced sith that the name of Christ was so odious to the Emperour of Rome whose Empire was exceeding large thaâ— whosoeuer professed himselfe to be a Christian was tormented moste cruelly vnto death So that it cannot bee proued that manie nations or countries were wholly christened or receiued the gospel of Christ but in secrete manner vntill the time of Constantine the great which was three hundred yeares after Christ or thereabout For before that time whosoeuer sincerelie preached the Gospell hee was forthwith accused of sedicion of preaching heresie and of new strange doctrine They were charged commonly by the Heathen to bee adulterers against kinde Manquellers Killers of children Churchrobbers most wicked most hurtful the enimies of mankinde guiltie of all kinde of wickednesse Enimies against the Goddes against the Emperoures against the lawes against good order against nature it selfe whatsoeuer mischiefe happened the Ethnikes 〈◊〉 impute it alwayes to the Christians The citie of Athens which had beene the â—â—â—taine of all knowledge was become the sinke of most horrible idolatrie Where Pâ—ule preaching Christ the Philosophers â—â—â—e Epicures and Stoikes resisted him 〈◊〉 saide what will this babler say â–ª Others said he semeth to be a setter forth of strange Gods Others saide may we nâ—t know what this new doctrine wherâ—â— thou spekest is in such rage the Ethniks and Infidels continued against the Christians vntill God of his mercie raised vp that worthie Emperour Constantine who aduaunced mightely the Gospell suppresâ—â—â— the enimies thereof and gaue the truth free passage throughout his dominion and â—mpire In his time all nations were called from Idolatrie Gentilitie and Iudaisme so continued manie hundred yeares vntill the Diuel was let loose and superstiâ—on inuaded the churche so that albeit â—e name of Christianitie remained afterâ—arde vnder the Popes gouernement yet Christes religion was abolished and abanâ—oned It is faith in Iesus Christe and â—he profession of true religion whiche maketh a Christian and not the outward name and therefore suche as were falle away from Christ his Gospell vnto the inuentions of man or suche as were coÌ„uerte onelie in name not being instructed in trâ— doctrine were no more Christians then the shadowe of a man is a man orâ— picture the thing which it doth represenâ— so that it was Nomen sinere Christian iâ— name and not in deede By the Turke aâ— so both the name and profession of a Christian was altogether vanquished Thuâ— much for
thy heade meaning thâ— woman Which text the Louanistes woulâ— seeme to reforme do put in ipse referring it to Christ You may see into what miseries you woulde bring vs to haue vs to beleue that the Virgin Marie should brusâ— the Serpents head whereas the words are to be vnderstanded of the seede of the woman Likewise in the Epistle vnto the Corinthians your olde translation hath these wordes Omnes quideÌ„ resurgemus â–ª sed non omnes imutabimur Wee shall all rise againe but wee shall not all be changed Which words be vntruely translated for all shall not rise againe because that at Christes comming some shall be founde aliue yet neuerthelesse All must be chaunged and this corruptible flesh must put on corruptioÌ„ But you wil perhaps say that the fault is not in the translation but in the Printer Why then hath your Church suffered the same translation to haue beene printed so often and hath not corrected these faultes Nay why with your Tridentine generall councell precisely say Let no man be so bolde or presume by any manner of colour to refuse the old common translation of the Bible To conclude you persuade the world if you haue authoritie not onely to allowe what translation ye list but also as your owne Canonistes doe auouch that the Pope the heade of your Church can at 〈◊〉 pleasure dispense against the Lawe of God against the Lawe of nature against the Apostles against all the commaundements of the olde and newe Testament That hee is Christes Lieftetenaunt not onely ouer thinges in heauen ouer thinges in earth and ouer things â—â— hell but also ouer the angels both good and badde whereas the true Church of God hath not at any time made her selfe â—â—udge ouer the worde and lawe of God 〈◊〉 alwaies hath vsed subiection vnto the â—â—â—e grounding all her religion and faith â—â—on the same worde And this you must needes confesse vnlesse you will denie a knowen trueth that we whose religion you doe so vehemently withstande haue alwayes perswaded the people not to beleeue vs one iotte further then we bring the woorde of God for our warrant And whereas you further enquire what Church hath had the custodie of the Bible and hath most safely preserued it I must needes say that God of his singuler mercie towardes his Churche by his diuine prouidence hath alwayes preserued his woorde to the comforte of his children as he preserued Elias in the wildernesse Daniel in the Lions denne the three children in the fornace Howe I pray you hath the Byble bene preserued by your Churche sith the whole worlde can testifie howe you haue burned the olde and newe Testament whiche thing is yet freshe in mans memorieâ— Did not Cutbert Tunstall being then Bishop of London cause the newe Testament to be burned at Pawles crosse in London as your Churche learned of Iehoakim king of Iuda who threw the boke which the Prophete Ieremie by Goddes commaundement had indited conteining the wrath of God against Iuda into the fier But you will say the Testamentes were falselie and vntrulie translated and therefore were burned If that had beene the cause it had bene your partes rather to haue disclosed and quoated forth the erroures and to haue amended the faultes Doeth the mother cast away the milke wherewith the children shoulde be nourished for that sometimes motes doe fall into it but rather culleth forth the moates giueth the Milke to the children euen so you ought to haue done What faultes were I beseech you in that translation you neuer noted anie if there had bene as indeede there were none why haue not you set forth a better what doctour of your Churche or fauorer of your Romishe Religion hath written in whose workes can not be found some errour yet we burned them not but are content to giue them the readinge and do reuerence them so farre as they agree with Gods truthe Further if â—n Angell should speake or write we ought not to beleue him Iudge you nowe laying away all affection whether your Church â—â— ours doe better esteme of the Bible or â—â— the better preserue the same Papist SHew me why our common knowen church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion contained in the same Shewe me why she kepte not as trulie and as faithfully the true sense of Gods woorde as she preserued the worde it selfe Shewe me why we shoulde beleeue the Papistes as ye tearme them for the worde it selfe and yet we shoulde beleeue you Protestantes for the meaning of the worde rather than them Shewe me why you beleeued our Churche telling you this to be Gods booke and will not credite her aduouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke and last of all shewe me why you beleeued the elder knowen Churche affirming this to be the word and doe not beleeue her affirming Luther to be an Heretike Shewe me good reason or Scripture for these poyntes and I recant Answeare YF you meane by your common knowen Churche the Churche of Rome as you will easily assent therevnto then your Church is more common than true For triall whereof it is plaine and that by Saint Barnarde that the pastoures of your Churche of Rome keepe not the spouse of God whiche is his Churche but they destroy her They keepe not the flock but they kill and deuoure And one whiche writeth of your Church in that great and solemne assemblie at Constance saieth They did quenche the spirite they did dispise the voice of the prophetes they persecuted Christ in his members and it was altogether a persecuting churche Barnard in an other place likewise crieth out O miserable Rome which in the time of our Elders hast brought foorth the lightes of worthie Fathers but in our dayes hast brought forth the monstruous darkenes shamefull and slanderous to the time to come An other calleth Rome a schoole of errour a temple of heresie And your old friend Thomas Becket whome you haue canonized for a Saint saith Our holy mother of Rome is become an harlot and hath prostituted her self that is hath set her selfe open to euerie man for reward And what neede we goe farre one of your owne nest in the late councell of Trent sheweth his iudgement of your Churche of Rome They haue brought to passe saieth he that godlinesse is turned into hypocrisie and that the sauoure of life is turned into the sauour of death Woulde to GOD they were not gone with one generall consent from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist from God to Epicure saying with wicked heartes and filthie mouthes there is no god Truth seketh not to be shrouded in corners I haue noted before a fewe places amongst many in which you haue corrupted the text of the Byble You seeme to vrge this matter instantly that your Church hath kept and
aduocate with the Father â—esus Christ the righteous and he is the propiciation for our sinnes and not for â—urs onely but for the sinnes of the whole world By the which words we â— taught that Christ our sauiour is not onâ— the mediatour of our redemption but also â— our intercession doth plead our cause wâ— god Why would you haue vs to take Chrâ— his office froÌ„ him as you do by inuocatiâ— praying to saints in making theÌ„ meanâ— for vs seeing that the Saintes departâ— know not our estate vnderstande not oâ— infirmities as Esaie the prophet doth wâ—nesse saying Though Abraham be ignorant of vs Israel know vs not yet thoâ— O Lord art our Father our redemeâ— thy name is for euer Wherevppoâ— S. Augustine giueth this note Thoâ— seest here saith he that neither Abrahâ— nor Israel knewe after their death whâ— the estate was of their posteritie And iâ— the same chapter he saith I am certainely perswaded that the dead knowâ— no more what we do here in earth theâ— we being in earth knowe what they doâ— in heauen Touching seruice in an vnknowne speech howe can it stande with the Apostles doctrine If the Trumpet saith Saint Paule geue an vncertaine sounde who shall prepare himselfe to battaile Also in the same Chapter Let â— thinges bee done in the congregatiâ— to edifying howe are the people â—lified whiche vnderstande not what is â—oken But to make the matter more â—aine the Apostle saith further I had raâ—er in the Church to speake fiue words â—th my vnderstanding that I mighte â—so instruct others then ten thousande â—ordes in a straunge tongue You aske â—so who preached against the Churche â— Rome for the space of a M. yeares â—uly euen from time to time God had his â—hurche which reproued your grosse idoâ—tries And for a taste I will name you a â—we The Monkes â–ª of Chester which â—ere not idle bellied Monkes but payneâ—ll Preachers and lyued not vppon the â—eate of other mens browes but by their â—ne handy labour whom your Monkish â—ugustine sent into Englande by Pope â—regorie did finde meanes to murder â—ost cruelly by incensing the king to make â—arre against them Sabellicus saith in the â—are of our Lord 1111. the Bishop of Fluâ—ce beganne to teache preach Antiâ—rist then to be born to be manifest â—rnulphus a godly Precher inueying aâ—ainst the abominatioÌ„s of your Church was priuily hanged in Rome by youâ— cleargie men This is no tale but recoâ—ded by your owne histories A councâ— was holden in king Steuens time vndâ— Theobaldus Archebyshoppe of Caunteâ— burie charging the Byshoppes that thâ— people shoulde learne the Lordes prayeâ— and the Creede in Englishe Gherarduâ— and Dulcinus both being preachers affiâ—med the Pope to be Antichrist and Româ— to be Babylon In the same yeare king Henrie the seconde made Lawes at Claredowne in Normandie abolishing thâ— Popes authoritie taking away appellations and Peter pence In the citie of Tolouse in the yeare of our Lorde 1178. a great number both men and women professoures of the true religion were by the Popes commissioners coÌ„demned to death There were certaine christen people called Valdenses or Leonistes true professoures of the Gospell as appeareth by the articles of their religion which liued in the yeare of our Lorde 1170. And of these godlie Christians speaketh one of your owne writers who saith thus The secte of these Leonistes hath a great shewe of pietie or godlinesse because they liued iustly and vprightly before men â—nd doe beleeue all thinges very well â—hich concerne God and all the artiâ—es which be contained in the Creede â—nelie they doe speake ill of and doe â—ate the Churche of Rome I will not â—eake of king Iohn who detesting your Romishe doctrine was poysoned by a â—ayterous Moonke at Swinested Abbey â—n Lincolneshier I let passe Iohn Wickâ—iffe person of Literworth who reade the â—iuinitie lecture in Oxenforde a zealous â—rofessour of all the pointes of doctrine which we now mainteine Whose bones your cleargie tooke vp manie yeares after his death and burned them I coulde name Iohn Husse and Ierome of Prage Bohemians whome the Emperour and your Pope sent for vnto the councell holden at Constance vnder their safe Conductes to come and goe in safetie yea though they prooued verie notablie their faith which word by worde agreeth with the true religion now set foorth Neuerthelesse contrary to promise their owne hands seales most violently they coÌ„demned theÌ„ for heretikes burned them And to salue this sore bleare the worldes eies they afterwarde decreed that Fides cum haereticis non esset seruanda that is That faith ought not to be kept with heretikes Gods name be thanked it may sufficiently be proued that in all ages there were some which defended the truth against your tyrannie But to come to the Pope this word Papa is a generall name vnto all learned men and therefore doth not pertaine onely to the sea of Rome Saint Augustine Saint Hierome writing one to another calleth each other Papa though one of them was conuersant in Iewrie the other at Hippo in Aphrick But to the matter You woulde knowe what wee mislike in the Popes gouernment and what Pope declined first from his Forefathers faith and steppes The Popes or Bishopes of Rome for the space of three hundred yeares after Christ did for the most parte suffer martyrdome vnder the wicked Emperours for the testitimonie of Christ and the doctrine in these daies published At which time they did not rule but were ruled After that they liued other three hundred yeares and more in a calme time and in greate quietnesse by Gods prouidence vnder Constantine the greate and the godâ— Emperours his successors Which time â—eeing expired and accomplished they â—eeing pricked forwardes through pride â—nd ambition did beginne to claime supeâ—ioritie ouer their fellowe Bishoppes â—nd also to decline by little and little from â—he perfecte rule of God his holy woorde â—nd veritie And in steede thereof magnified and extolled them selues and â—heir own inuentions traditions not stryâ—ing and contending who should excell or â—oe before one an other in pure and â—incere doctrine and holinesse of life But â—ather who coulde woorke moste mischiefe and iniurie one towardes an other of them seeking one to depriue an other of theire Bishopprikes and often times of lyfe in taking one an other out of their graues and also cutting of one an others â—ingers and poisoning one another and â—n making Lawes decrees and ordinanâ—es one against an other there beeing sometymes two or three Popes at one time in doctrine vnsound in life wicked and in this hurley burly the Churche of Rome continued a verie long time both before and after Hildebrande Neuerthelesse this Hildebrande beyng yet Cardinall as one of your owne Cardinals reporteth did beate Pope Alexander with his fist and kept him in
prison for that he woulde not take vpon him to be supreame heade of the Churche which Hildebrande poysoned sixe Popes was a coniurer and raised vp Diuelles and threwe the Sacrament into the fire Another saith that they were many that both priuatly and openly cursed Pope Hildebrande and said that with his hatred and ambition he troubled the worlde and that vnder the colour of Christ he wrought the feates of Antichrist This was he in whose time Sathan was let loose and when your Churche of Rome might truely be called the seate and harbour of Antichrist the man of sinne which setteth himselfe against God which sitteth in mens consciences is euen that whore which Saint Iohn speaketh of Which shoulde make the nations of the earth drunken with the cuppe of her fornication and hath imbrued her handes in the bloude of Gods Saintes Surely I muste needes say if that these Potenâ—ates had bene but a litle whitled and â—ot beastly drunke they woulde neuer haue bene so deceiued by Antichriste and receiued the marke of the beast What Lorde King or Emperour woulde haue kissed the Popes foote holden his stirâ—ope serued him at the table To coÌ„clude besides their wickednes in life as many of them being coniurers adulterets namelie Siluester the seconde whoe gaue him selfe bodie and soule to the Diuell that he might be Pope and Pope Ioane the woman Pope who traueled with Childe as shee was carried on foure mens shoulders about in procession their doctrine is most damnable and repugneth in all poyntes the Gospell of Christe As one saying of Agryppa speaking of the Pope and and Churche of Rome plainely sheweth They commaunde saith he the Angelles they haue power ouer the dead they vse violence against the Scriptures to haue the fulnesse of authoritie The Pope him selfe is become intollerable There was neuer Tyrant like vnto him in pompe and pride The Legates of the Byshoppe of Rome doe so riotte in their the Pope to be Antichrist as Irenaeus a godly father sheweth Antichrist saith he being a runnegate and a theefe yet hee will be woorshipped as a God And being but a bondseruant yet he will be proclaimed and published as a King. Another saith Antichrist shall faigne him selfe to bee holy that hee may deceiue men vnder the colour of holines yea he shall call him selfe God and shal cause him self to be worshipped and shall promise the kingdome of heauen An other saith Whereas he is a damned man and no spirit he pretendeth him selfe to bee a God and whatsoeuer he dooth no man may aske him Domine cur ita facis Sir why doo you so Enter now into your owne conscience examine these sayinges vprightly looke vppon them with a single eye and theÌ„ iudge you indifferently And I trust that you will recant according to your promise Papist 8 ITEM I aske what kinde and order of seruice or common prayer what way of ministring the Sacraments your Church had before papistrie as you cal it preuailed in the worlde shewe me one booke or coppie of communion or what else you list that was in english or lacked praying for the departed or inuocation of Saintes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receiue else the Prieste could not consecrate or say Masse receiuing alone or shewe anye note in a communion booke that people should take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should giue no honour vnto it shewe this booke or anie Church or congregation that euer had aniâ—â—utenticall seruice but ours And I recant Answeare 8 I Shal not neede to stand long in reciting what kind of seruice was vsed before papistrie began verely euen the same which our Sauiour Christ set foorth which is recorded in the foure Euangelists and in the Epistles and writings of the Apostles from which the Apostles the congregations vnto whome they had preached the Gospell departed not one iotte And so the Apostle speaking of the institution of the Lordes Supper saith That thing which I haue receiued of the Lord the same haue I deliuered vnto you As though he should say euen he which ought onely to beare authoritie in the Church hath prescribed a way and orders of celebrating his laste Supper of whiche these are the chiefe partes That the Minister shoulde shewe the Lordes death by preaching his woorde and Gospell by calling vppon the name of the Lorde in prayer in deliuering the bread wine to bee receiued with thankesgeuing that the congregation shoulde for their partes proue and try them selues touching the knowledge of GOD fayth in the mercies of God offered in Christ and true sorrowe and lamentation for their sinnes past endeuouring them selues to leade a new life to shew forth the Lords death in consenting to his woorde and institution It is manifeste that the people to the number of three thousande soules beeing of diuerse countries and nations conuerted vnto the Gospell by Peters preaching continued for so the holie Ghoste speaketh in the Apostles doctrine and felowshippe and breaking of breade and prayers This order of seruice was vsed in all congregations from time to time amongest true Christians and remayned perfect for the space of sixe hundred yeares and odde yea vntill the same was altered by your Popish Cleargie who not being contented with that whiche Chrisâ—e his Apostles and the auncient Doctoures and Fathers of the Churche had sette foorth deuised a newe way of worshipping GOD a new â—order of ministration a straunge and newe â— deuised forme of prayer and so turned all vpside downe But in defence of the truth we may boldely and truely answeare you that we holde and mainteine the same order of seruice the same ministration of Sacramentes the same prayer that the true Apostles and faithfull Christians vsed in all ages And whereas you aske for Bookes in Englishe which were written before Papistrie beganne in which there is no mencion made of praying for the deade of inuocation to saintes of priuate Masse It is plaine that there were sundrie godly bookes of Scripture whiche Dioclesian that wicked Emperour did burne in open markettes whose steppes your Churche of Rome hath followed euermore in suppressing the truth by suche meanes Notwithstanding God be thanked there bee manie volumes exstant writteÌ„ both by the auncient and godly fathers of the Church as also in the Saxon tongue in verie oldâ— English of which I haue seene one veriâ— lately found in a verie olde ruinons wall which forbiddeth prayers for the deade whiche teacheth vs onely to inuocate thâ— name of God which maketh mention oâ— no masse but of the communion in botâ— kindes and to conclude doeth aduouche iâ— all pointes the same Sacramentes thâ— same principles of religion and the same manner of worshipping God that we doe and proueth the same by the scriptures Iâ— appeareth in histories that the Bohemians made peticion vnto the councell holden aâ— Basill that
other mens writing and so would I haue others vnderstand myne It is most true that Origem Ambrose Augustine Hierom the other fathers of the Church haue their seuerall errors one doth write against an other most vehemently What maruell is it that these did differ seing that â—he Apostles theÌ„ selues could not agree alwayes in all pointes Paule did withstand Peter in the face before all men Platina one of your owne storie writers affirmeth that the Popes them selues whom you brage so much of did repugne one an others decrees The next Pope saith he either breaketh or vtterly repealeth his predecessors decrees For these little petie Popes had no other studie to occupie them selues with all but only to deface the name of the former Popes of which church were not only these Popes but also your owne scholemen pillers of your religion How came it to passe that these thinges were vttered in your owne boks Barnardus non vidit omnia Barnarde did not see all things Hic magister non tenetur Here one maister is not to bee receiued Thomas Aquine saith that we are not boÌ„nd vpon the necessitie of saluatioÌ„ to beleue not only the Doctours of the Churche as Hierom. August â–ª but also neither the church it selfe sauing only matters concerning the substaunce of faith But lett all mens aucthoritie passe and receiue that remaining in eight Persons the which which the holy Apostle wriceth Whosoeuer bringeth not the Doctrine of the Gospell receiue them not And againe If wee or an Angell from heauen doe preach any other doctrine theÌ„ you haue receiued hold him accursed To conclud we ought not to leane either to this man or that to the right hand or to the left to this church or that church in any thing whatsoeuer further then the truth of Gods word doth direct vs Neither doeth our saluation depend vppon anie earthly man but we ascribe it wholy to our lord sauiour Christ by whose stripes onely we are healed Papist 11 MOreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in the time on which they hold the true Church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the catholik Church was bound to goe from the church which they sawe and which taught them both that article all other things touching their faith by which they were christened receiued al other sacramentes commodities of saluation And whether they were bound to seeke for this vnknowne closse congregation which they could neither come vnto nor by â—hich they neuer receaued any benefit nor â—ould receiue any so forsake the church â—y whome and in whome they receiued both â—heir faith sacraments Shew me therfore â—hat the Christian men of those dates were charged to beleue any other church or seke for any other church theÌ„ that which taught them the articles of the church and baptized them And I recant Answeare 11 YOu further demauÌ„d Whether the people when the Church was hid were bound to goe from the church which they sawe seeke the vnknowne church beleue the same If you will vouchsafe to peruse that which I haue noted heretofore which is also confirmed by sundrie learned authorities viz. that the true church of God is to be sought for to be found only by the scripturs which are the foundations of the same church you may be satisfied heerein that the people ought to stay them selues vpon the scriptures not to beleue any further then Gods word leadeth theÌ„ The true church of God is not alwayes most apparant in earth or consistinge of the greatest number This appeareth by Noah in setting him selfe against all the worlde the true Church onely excepted then were saued in the arke and all the worlde else drowned Was not Lot his small familie the true Church of God deliuered by the Angells and the fiue whole citties destroyed â–ª where was the Church in the time of Elias when he complained most bitterly and said I haue bene verie ielous for the Lord God of hoastes For the children of Israel haue forsaken the couenant broken downe the altars slaine thy Prophetes with the swoord I only am lefte and they seeke my life to take it away Where was the Church when Esay the Prophet cried out How is the faithfull cittie become an harlot it was full of iudgement iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers their siluer is become drosse their wine is mixed with water their Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues Where was the Church when Dauid the Prophet did breake for the into theise words there is not one that doeth good no not one If there were any Church of God in these times in which these Propheâ—es liued no doubt it was in verie fewe or els hid altogether otherwise they would not so greeuouslie haue complained of the want thereof And yet there was in all â—ese times a Church in outwarde forme â—ewe to the iudgment of man supposed to â— the true Church where the Iewes the â—â—e Church at what time they bosted most â— the outwarde beautie of their Church â—ying We are the temple of the Lord or â—hen they sayd wee are the children of God whereas euen at that time they went â— whoring after their owne inuentions But as the Scribes Pharisies vaunted â—em selues that they were the true Church â—f God the Disciples of Moses the sonnes â—f Abraham where as in deede by the teâ—â—imonie of our sauiour Christ they worâ—â—ipped God in vaine teachinge the preâ—eptes and doctrines of men and erred for â—hat they knowe not the scriptures were â—ypocrites dissemblers deuouring wiâ—owes houses vnder a colour of longe praiâ—r euen so you with your Church of Rome â—hough you bragge neuer so much of your â—uccession and aucthoritie the holy ghost â—lainly sheweth that your Babilon shall â—aue a fal Our sauiour Christ telleth both â—ou the pharisees that you haue made through your own deuises the temple of God adenn of theues Triumph neuer so much that you are the catholike church â–ª that you are in the arke of Noah you are none of Gods neither shall be till you renounce abolish your vaine ceremonies â— false worshipping of God other thinges which you do contrarie to his holy wordeâ— The true church of God is coÌ„pared to the Moone which sometimes is full clere aâ— bright sometimes in the Eclips is wan â— darke so the church of God is now great now small now calme and in quietnesse nowe subiect to tempests and troubles nowe in many nowe in fewe And therefore you are greatlie deceiued in that you do thinke the Church vtterly extinguished wheÌ„ it appeareth not at your pleasure Thus you may learne by sundrie writers that God hath had wil haue alwaies his church whether it be more or lesse One which hath written the Forte of