but be a meanes to state the Quâ—stion truly without mistakes and to cleare the truth thereof by the evident Word of God This manner of conference may be described in due time if the State should encline to yeeld unto a Toleration upon the termes forenamed And then in the interim whiles the matter is in debate the whole difference of their course in Publike and the Underhand Practâ—ses which perhaps some of them might intend should be so limited as that the Peace of the Church and Government owned by the State should suffer nothing thereby And to finde out these Limitations so as they themselves shall have no cause to except against the same the State may command them to give up a Draught of the Whole Way which they intend to follow in Gathering Framing and Governing their Churches according to Gods Ordinances requiring them to shew witâ—all what Limitations they would admit of voluntarily in respect of others that the latitude of difference wherein they desire to stand may be no disturbance to the Peace of their Brethren or occasion of Scandall to the Publike Profession of the Gospel and when this Draught is given up then the State may give it to the other side to be considered desiring them to declare if any thing more should justly be required of them to prevent scandalls and maintaine the Publike Peace of that Religious Profession whereby the Gospel may be most honoured and advanced till in due time the causes of their Separation may be taken out of the way and when these have given up their Considerations to that effect the State may shew the same to the Non-Communionists to see what they will except against them and if they except not against the Limitations required by the Presbyterians then the Authority of the State may Ratifie the same but if they do except against the foresaid Superadded Limitations then the State is to judge and determine the matter as it shall thinke fittest for the Publike Peace and the honour of God in the Meanes of Outward Edification Now because difficulties may be incident and many doubtfull Cases arise in the Jâ—dgement of a State How to determâ—ne of such Limitations as may be disputable betwixt Parties of severall Interests Therefore it ought not to be without some Rules whereby it may discerne what is Justice and give satisfaction unto its owne Conscience in a matter of so great concernment It will then not be amisse to set downe some Propositions tending this way which if all sides agree unto it may be hoped that the Limitations will not be very difficult to be found First then it belongeth to the Conscience of a State to look both to the Ou ward Visible Worship of God in it selfe and to the frame of Humane Societies wherein God is publikely worshipped that neither in the Manner of Worshipping God nor in the Society of the Worshippers any thing be admitted which may overthrow the truth of Christianity or crosse any maxime of Civill Righteousnesse and Tranquility By this Rule the Civill Magistrate will be bound to suffer no Idolatry and Superstition in the Forme of Publike Worship and to represse all Confused Tumul uous and Factious Meetings of the Worshippers and the Occâ—sions thereof Secondly as that which is meerly Spirituall belongeth to the charge of Spirituall Office-bearers wherein they are to be ruled by the Word only within themselves and that which is meerly Civill belongeth to the Charge of the Civill Magistrates wherein they are to be guided within themselves by the grounds of Right Reason teaching the Fundamentalls of Humane Societie consisting in the Principles of good Order and mutuall Innocencie to be prescribed unto their Subjects So in things of a mixt nature the care thereof belongeth to the Spirituall Civill office-bearers joyntly wherein both are to concurre to determine the matter according to their severall Interests therein By which Rule as the Civill Magistrate is bound not to meddle with the Spirituall nor the Spirituall Office-bearer with the Civil Charge and Authority so both are obliged to make their Charges usefull to the good of each other in the advancement of Gods glory Therefore whatsoever may tend to make a Confused mixture of these Charges such as is in Poperie and Papall Episcopacie or to breake the amiable Correspondencie which should be betwixt them in their distinct charges should be taken out of the way Thirdly although the Spirituall Charges of the Kingdome of God belong not to the Civill Magistrate yet the Conscience of the State professing Christianitie is bound not only to looke to the inconveniences which may hinder the progresse or overthrow the truth of Christianite that they may authoritatively be taken away but also to the Conveniences advancing that Truth that these may be furthered so far as his sphere doth reach in the Nursing care of Religion By which Rule the Conscience of a State is bound as I suppose to these following duties First to satisfie it selfe in the knowledge of that which is the Infallible True Worship of God and in that which is absolutely requisite in the publike Profession thereof that it may be fully setled in the bosome of the State and none suffered therein that will oppose the same Secondly to beare a hand over it to nurse and protect it from Outward and inward Enemies whensoever the Church shall make a true discoverie of the same to the State And thirdly to oversee within it selfe the Outward discharge of all Duties belonging to Gods Ordinances that for the matter Iustice and for the manner good Order may be observed therein For although the Spirituall Ordinances are not to be administred by the Civill Magistrate himselfe yet the just and Orderly behaviour of those that doe administrate the same in the discharge of their duties belongeth unto his Cognizance and if he findeth that Injustice and Disorder is practised by any who is intrusted with the discharge of Spirituall duties he ought to take Councell with the Spiriâ—uall Office-bearers of the Churches owned and as the case may be also of the Churches Tolerated how the scandall thereof may be taken away and prevented in time to come Fourthly because the Right and Orderly Outward Calling and Authorizing of Ministers to a Spirituall Charge and the appropriating of them to the Churches wherein their Charges are to be exercised is the ground-worke and Corner-stone of the Outward settlement of Congregations and consequently of the Publick Profession of Religion therefore the Conscience of the State ought to looke narrowly unto this that by the Congregations Tolerated no root of Confusion in any kind be planted or admitted to spring up and trouble many in their Publick Societies but all prudent and circumspect Limitations should be used to prevent so far as the Sphere of the Magistrates charge in this kinde reacheth that neither the Multitude having itching eares should be permitted to heap unto themselves Teachers after their own lusts nor the Teachers
AN EPISTOLARY DISCOURSE Wherein amongst other particulars these following Questions are briefly resolved I. Whether or no the State should tolerate the Independent Government II. If they should tolerate it How farre and with what Limitations III. If they should not tolerate it what course should be taken to bring them to a conformity with the Presbyterials Written by Mr. JOHN DURY To Mr. THO. GOODWIN Mr. PHILIP NYE Mr. SAMUEL HARTLIB Published by a Friend for more common use Iulâ— 27. 1644. Imprimatur JA CRANFORD LONDON Printed for Charles Greene and are to be sold at his shop in lvie Lane 1644. The copies of Letters to Mr. THO. GOODWIN and Mr. PHILIP NYE Worthy Sirs ALthough I am not yet setled here nor can promise unto my selfe any leasure and freedome of spirit from other necessary thoughts which my present condition doth obliege me unto and although I might imagine that there is little use as yet to be made amongst you of any thing that I can propose tending to moderation in matters Ecclesiasticall by reason of the distracted condition of the Civill State Neverthelesse beause I did promise you that I would put something to paper concerning the scope of my Negotiation and the Arguments which I have used to perswade mens spirits unto mutuall forbearance and because I know that if one will observe the winde very narrowly he shall hardly ever sow his seed Eccles 11.4 or if he regard the clouds reap his corne therefore I will not delay any longer the performance of that which I undertooke Which that I may doe in some order I will branch out this Discourse into these particulars First I will relate unto you the true state of my negotiation with the Lutherans to bring them to moderation towards us Secondly I will set down the heads of Reasons which induced me to this endeavour and which I used to perswade others to that duty which I have pressed upon them Thirdly I will let you know my opinion concerning you case for which you desire to know these matters that you may understand how far I take it to be agreeing or disagreeing with that which hitherto I have agitated and what I would advise you to doe in it for the advancement of Christs kingdome and the publique edification of your Brethren The true state of my Negotiation is this That I have endeavored to bring the Lutherans to some orderly treatie with us and joynt resolution amongst themselves concerning the wayes of Peace and Unity in the publique and private profession of Christianitie that the scandalous and unconscionable effects of our divisions being taken out of the way some joynt course might be seâ—led to set forward the Reformation of Protestant Churches unto that period whereunto it may by Gods assistance be brought To this effect having first dealt with our own side and gotten their consent unto this Aime I have offered my selfe also unto the rest as a Sollicitor of the Councels of Peace and a Servant of the Communion of Saints in this matter In this posture I have taken the freedome to provoke all unto the duties of love and of good workes either by proposing or asking councell of them or making motions tending to the composure of differences For having made my spirit voyd of partiality and laid aside all private aimes I took up universall rules which I thought appâ—â—â—â—e unto all mens understandings in Theoreticis and to their conâ—â—â—â—â—â—es in Practicis that by this meanes we might be brought to fâ—llow the Apostles councell unto the Philippians chap. 3.15.16 which is that so far as we are come we should mind the same things and walke by the same rule as it becommeth those that iâ—deed are brethren in Jesus Christ For I did not aime so mâ—ch at a â—are Toleration betwixt us and Lutherans as at a pub iâ—ue profâ—ssion of Brotherhood whereupon I conceived a Toleration would follow of it selfe in matters of lesser difference which câ—uld be no just occasion of a breach and as for things of greater importance wherein some did seeme to find sufficient cause of breaking of Brotherhood from us I supposed these might be removed two wayes first by a fundamentall confession of faith and of duties requisite unto salvation which might be common to all and openly professed as the summe and substance of our Religion and badge of our fraternall union Secondly by a common and infallible rule of interpreting the Text of holy Scripture by which all Doubts incident in other matters not fundamentall may be cleered and decided and as the fundamentall Confession should serve for all in common so this Rule of interpretation should be a meanes to joyne the more learned sort in one sense and meaning lest their differences about matters of lesser moment might rent the body in pieces notwithstanding the former tye of Union in fundamentall truths For seeing we see daily that amongst men of good repute otherwise for godlines in their life and conversation and for zeale in their profession of Religion great disputes fall out for small matters as for the different acception of a word in a place of Scripture or for the meaning of a sentence which may be diversly interpreted according to the different relations which it hath unto the matters precedent and consequent and these disputes oft-times come to such a height betwixt them that they not onley lose all charitable affections and amicablenesse of conversation one towards another but also involve others their hearers into the same breaches of Christian love from whence Schismes and Seperations at last arise and increase in the Churches although there be no just cause thereof in respect of the substantiall and materiall points of Faith and Practice seeing I say we daily see that this doth fall out and that this alone is able to breed many divisions amongst the Learned notwithstanding all other tyes of brotherly union and friendship betwixt them therefore I thought it would be expedient if not necessary to find some remedy for this inconvenient which at last I suppose is found and if God would be pleased to enable me to propose it I hope it would prove effectuall towards Men that are not self-conceited but tractable either by the grounds of Reason or of Conscience led in aspirituall way which is above but not contrary unto Reason for spirituall Truths are rationally delivered in the Scripture although men that are naturally rationall are not able to câ—mprehend the sense thereof In a word I conceive the remedie to be this That when we have agreed upon the substance of Faith and Practice we may have also some undoubted Rules whereby to reduce all matters which are extra-substantiall unto their owne Principles that the doubts which arise concerning the same may be decided according to the Analogie of that Faith which is out of all doubt and according to the cleere sense of the Word regularly analysed So that the Rules first of determining Fundamentalls in Faith and
property of every member wherewith God hath endued it as the eye the eare the nose the tongue the hand the feet are all members and as in one body and moving by one spirit are bound all to have the same care each for another yet their care is in a different way according to the place and property which they have in the body For some of these members have a more eminent place and property then others and according to the nature of it their care is commanded The members then which have their property and place in the head are commanded to care in the nature of the head which in comparison of the rest of the members is Authoritative thus the property of the eye is towards the foot and hand Authoritative namely to direct it by judging and discerning the way wherein to walke or the matter that is to be felt Now the property of the hand is not of this nature yet it careth for the body and it hath the faculty of feeling to none other end but the propertie of the facultie is not Authoritative and directing further then it is directed by the superiour Members or the faculties of the head By all which I intend to intimate thus much First that the Commandement of mutuall care doth not give to Members of an inferiour facultie any power to act above that which is in the nature of their place in the body far lesse to oversee or overrule the Rulers as the custome of some is or hath been And secondly that this same Commandement doth give to the Members of a superiour facultie a Charge to act lovingly according to the nature of their place and office in the body For the office of every Member doth make the actions done therein according to the Rule and to the end of Common good Authoritative and as it is in the Naturall so it is in the Spirituall and Mysticall body Therefore as in the head of the Naturall body there is a Senate of superiour Senses which in the acts of their Charges cannot be without Authority towards inferior Members so in the Mysticall body of the Church these Officers which partake of the Senses of the Head cannot be without Authoritie in the Acts of their Charges and their care which is recommended to them for the body in their charge is to be understood different herein from that which belongeth to the rest of the Members and if the looking to and caring thus for one another be an expresse Commandement of God as well to Ministers one towards another in their Charges and places as to Members each to others then it must be granted that the best Meanes to performe this duty is also commanded and if this be found to be the Presbyteriall Conjunction of Ministers then I must conceive that a Combination of the Ministers of many Churches is the compleat and entire seat of Church power over each Congregation so combined which is the thing whereof they made a question Now if this Relation of Ministeriall Authoritie and Respective Subjection for mutuall Edification be once setled then all other matters tending to Publike Edification will easily be determined in matters of Publike Worship for Uniformitie therein according to the Rules of the Word which to prevent scandals and divisions is absolutely necessary and that this Uniformitie may be obtained I conceive that these things should be taken notice of 1. That in and about the Acts of the Publike Worship of God some things are his own immediate Ordinances some things are not of that nature 2. His own immediate Ordinances as they are unalterable so they are of necessitie to be observed and must be done in his name 3. All things of another nature are not necessary but alterable and may not be done in his name 4. The things of an Alterable nature relate the bodily and Outward part of the Worship as it is clothed with Outward Circumstances For whatsoever is Spirituall and relating the inward truth and substance of the Worship is determined in the Word and not subject to Outward Circumstances 5. The power to determine what is Alterable and How it is to be altered for Publike Edification doth belong to those that have a Publike Charge in the Church 6. Yet in some Cases which may relate the Rights of the Civill Magistrate his power is not to be neglected but respected joyntly with the Church Officers 7. The limits of the joynt powers in cases of a mixt nature are to be taken from their different Objects Ends and Properties of Fundamentall Rights and Lawes of Government by which they attaine their End severally 8. No particular Church loseth her Right to order within her selfe matters of Particular Edification onely the occasions of Scandall to others must be avoyded and may be prevented by a Brotherly Communication of Reasons why things must be so ordered in a private way 9. Therefore the Uniformitie of Publike Worship is not to be esteemed by meere Circumstantials which ought not to be too precisely determined but by the Fulnesse of Substantials agreeing and by the consent of a Latitude under certaine Rules of Brotherly Correspondencie therein â—etwixt United Churches 10. The Manner of introducing new Orders to be observed or of altering any thing which hath been observed should not be without a due preparation of the understandings of that flock towards which the Alteration is to bee applied If these Positions be not denied I suppose that most of the Scrupulosities of the Non-Communionists may be resolved thereby in matters of Publike Order Decencie and Government about which they seeme to intend a Scholasticall disputation but I would entreat every one whose ayme is Publike Edification to beware of the disputes of that nature which may easily breed heat and needles contradictions about matters of no great consequence Or if they undertake them to agree with those with whom matters are to be discussed of the manner of debating which ought to be limited and regulated and free from all Personall reproaches which lay open the nakednes of other Infirmities or censure faults prejudicially For except these cautions be prudently used those that take in hand to dispute will lose their way and be taken off from the maine worke of the Ministerie which is to declare the Testimonie of Jesus without partialitie as it may be for the Edification of all We know and that experimentally that Knowledge doth puffe up the spirit but it is Charitie that doth edifie Now to maintaine the affections of Charitie in the bonds of Spirituall Unitie there is nothing so effectuall as the Way of Brotherly Consultation by which all can be said which in a Scholasticall or disputative way can be proposed and with more force by how much the ayme is more friendly and insinuating then that of a Contradictorie debate Thus I have briefly done with the last point of this Discourse where many other things might be insisted upon which I purposely omit as not being willing to descend unto Particulars which may be observed in the severall passages of the Apologeticall Narration Hereafter if it be found expedient and you require it I may adde an Appendix to this Discourse containing the same Till then and ever I commend you to the Grace and love of the God of Peace in whom I am Your faithfull friend and servant JOHN DVRT Hague 17 7 March 1644. FINIS