and the Isralites now not of this world Ioh. 15.19 then the king thereof is not of this world as they are not of this world Ioh 17.16 aÌ„d if these spiritual lords coÌ„fesse that Chr king now of the sand aÌ„d people of Israel but yet he hath left our lord the king hâ—s deputy to make such lawes and lords over the church as pleaseth him the word of the lord is against theÌ„ â—ere is but one â—ord 1. Cor. 12.5 one law giver Iam. 4.12 over his Church Nay his Ma himself is against theÌ„ who saith There is no earthly monarch ever the Church whose word must be a law saith further Christ is his Churches monarch the holy ghost his deputy alleging luk 22.25 the kings of the Gentiles beare rule one over another c. but I shal not be so among you saying further Christ then he ascended left not Peter with them to direct theÌ„ in al truth but promissed to send the holy ghost to them for that end c. If any wishe rebellions against the word of the lord herein yet let them not be rebellious against the word of the king Oh that any thinge would prevail with theÌ„ to make them leave of these cruel courses of persecuting poore soules that desire truely to feare God and are most faithful subjects to the king and desire also the salvatioÌ„ of the soules of these their cruel persecutors who do seeke their vtter vndoeing by al the forenamed persecutions onely because they cannot of faith offer vp such worship to God as these spirituall lords comaund and the rather let them leave of persecutinge seeing the kings Ma tie acknowledgeth It is a sure rule in divinitie that God loves not to plant his church by violeÌ„ce bloodshed And if it be a law for al ChristiaÌ„s that in indifferent thinges one must not offeÌ„d another but the stronge but forbeare rather theÌ„ offeÌ„d his weake brother other wyse he wounds the weake conscience sinnes against Christ 1. Cor 8. TheÌ„ how much lesse hath any man power to be lord over the weake conscience forceing it to practice that it hath not faith in bringing it thereby vnto same and vnto condemnation Rom. 14. wee do vnfainedly acknowledg the authority of earthly Magistrats Gods blessed ordinance and that al earthly authority and comaund apperteynes vnto theÌ„ let them comaund what they will wee must obey either to do or suffer vpoÌ„ paine of Gods displeasure besides their punishment But al men must let God alone with his right which is to be lord and law-giver to the soule aÌ„d not comaund obedience for God where he comaundeth none And this is onely that which wee dare not but maintaine vpoÌ„ the peril of our soules which is greater then bodily afflictioÌ„ And onely for the maintenance of Christs right herein do false Prophets and deceivers who by that craft are clothed in fyne apparel and faire deliciously every day labor to make vs odious iÌ„ the ears aÌ„d eyes of Prince and people knoweing wel that if they had not power by persecution to force meÌ„ to dissemble to beleeve as they their kingdome and paine would soone come to nought the wickednes of which course is discovered in this writinge followeing For the manner being Dialogue-wise wee thought it the fittest in two respects First for the vnderstanding of the simple to whome especially Gods misteries apperteyne more then to the wise and prudent of the world Secondly because al the objections that wee have met with might be set downe and the playnelyer answered And because wee have faith and assurance that many wil see and acknowledg the vnlawfulnes of tyraÌ„nyzing over the conscieÌ„ce vn persecuting the bodies of such as cannot be subject wee have also thought it meet to manifest the careful estate of such subjection that they may deliver their soules if they wil be saved and also have set downe the beginning of that old and good way that Iohn Baptist Christ Iesus aÌ„d his Apostles have left vnto al that wil be saved â—nto the end of the world Beseeching that Almighty worker that he would worke in the harts and consciences of men that they may enquire for it and that out of the scriptures and walke therein theÌ„ shal they find rest vnto their soules although afflictions to their bodies Oh 〈…〉 is time for the Lord to worke for they have destroyed his law and have set vp in many Nations such worship for God as best pleaseth theÌ„ that are in authority and have power to persecute the contrary mynded Let all Gods people cry How long Lord when wilt thou come to destroy Antychrists cruel Kingdome and establish Christs meeke and peaceable Kingdome as thou haist begun even come Lord Iesus by the Spirit of thy Moueth and the brighnes of thy coming even come quickely Amen By Christs vnworthy witnesses his Majesties faithful subjects Comonly but most falsly called Annabaptists Antichristian VVhy come you not to Church Christian What should I do there A. VVorship God C. I must worship God as he requireth aÌ„d not as any mortal man requireth A. True but the worship that wee require you to offer vp is the vvorship God requireth C. If it be so I wil withal willingnes asseÌ„t vnto it but my conscience must be satisfied there of by the word of truth that I may have faith in it other wise it is my grevious sai Rom. 14.23 For I may not beleeve it so to be because you affirme it A. VVell you must go to Church othervvise you are disobedient to the law vvil fall vnder punishment C. But still remember that you would have me worship God as you pretend therefore let vs agree what worship God requireth Christ saith Ioh 4.24 God is a spirit they that worship him must worship him in spirit truth Here wee see what worship God requireth viz That wee worship him with our soules and Spirits and also that we worship him according to the truth of his word And therefore for your booke worship If it were according to truth from the which it is as far as light is from darknes yet if I cannot offer it vp with my Spirit it is not acceptable to God but most abhominable A. Well you must come to Church C. I pray let aske you a question do you seeke the glory of God and the salvation of my soule herein or your owne obedience A. I seeke the glory of God and the salvation of your soule not my ovvne obedience C. Then manifest it no by words onely but by deeds and truth which if you do you will not threaten me punishmeÌ„t to cause me to come but with meekenes and patience satisfye my conscience by the word of truth for this is the duety of the Minist of Christ 2. Tim. 2.24 that I may come with a willing mynd so shall I be accepted 2. Cor. 8.12 Psal 110.3 For if by threatning me punishment as imprisonment banishment or death
why are not subjects also freed from subjection and allegeance to their Princes being excomunicate if excomunication be Christs Lawe to all alike that wil be saved without respect off persons And also is not that lawe off Christ herein to be observed That whatsoever ye would men should do to you even so do you to them Mat. 7.12 And therefore as Princes would that all their subjects should bee faithfull and obedient vnto theÌ„ so ought Princes to be just and equall to all their subjects in mainteyning them in every just and equall cause betwene man and man For for his cause not for Religion saith Thappostle the saints at Rome paied their tribute to Cesar their heatheÌ„ Prince who was against them in Religion Shall they not escape damnatioÌ„ for this accursed doctrine and practice aÌ„d thinke you you shall thou that judgest another judgest them not thy self By this it may appeare as also by exceeding many other doctrines aÌ„d practices how neere you are to that bloody spirituall power what pretences to the contrary soever you make A. It vvere a lamentable thinge if that bloodie Religion should bee practiced againe in this Nation C. I acknowledg it a bloodie Religion but God hath cast down the power thereof in this kingdome blessed be his name but I would you could see your owne cruell bloodie religion but that God of his mercy hath restrained it by the kings Ma tie who thirsteth not after blood how many onely for seeking reformation in religion hath bene put to death by your power in the daies of Q. Eliz aÌ„d how many both then aÌ„d since have bene coÌ„sumed to death in prisons yâ—a since that cruel spiritual power hath bene ser â—p that not hanging burning exile imprisonments and al manner of contempt bene vsed and al for religion although some for grevious errors aÌ„d yet you see not this to be a bloodie religion further you cry out of their bloodie cruelty the reason is because you wil not bee of their religion and when you have done are most blodie cruell so far as is in your power because wee and al men will not bee of your religion A. If men hold errors vvill not obey the truth do they not sin against God deserve punishment C. Yes such deserve punishment but God hath apointed their punishment and the time thereof Their punishment Rom. 2.8.9 To them that are contentious disobey the truth obey vnrighteousnes shal be indignation wrath tribulatioÌ„ anguish shal be vpon the soule of every one that doth evil Mark 16.16 He that will not beleeve shal be damned 2. Thes 1.8 In flaming fire rendring veÌ„geance vnto them that knowe no God obey not the gospell of our Lord Iesus Christ which shall bee punished with everlasting perdition from the presence of the Lord the glorie of his power The time thereof the last place recited vers 7. When the Lord Iesus shal shewe himself from heaven with his mightie Angels and Rom. 2.5 The day of wrath and vers 16 At that day when God shall judg the secrets of men by Iesus Christ and Mat. â—3 40.41 At the end of this VVorld the sonne of man shall send furth his Angels they shall gather out of his Kingdome al thinges that offend them that doe iniquitie shall cast them into a furnace of Fire c. Here is shewed the punisher the punishment and the time thereoff This punisher hath comaunded you to wait for their repentance by his owne example which is in his hands to give them and not to cut them of and send them to hell as you teach and practice which is contrary to God who is patient towards mockers which walke after ther lusts 2. Pet. 3. Because he would have no maÌ„ to perish but would that all men whatsoever should come to repentance but you contrary to him vse all the meanes you can to cut Men of that they might perish in that you seke to destroy their bodies whilst they remaine in their errors A. I confesse that God commaundeth Mat. 13 That the good bad must grovv together vnto the end of the VVorld but that is in the Church C. Wel if that be the true exposition I pray you why do you then excomunicate any out off your Churche contrary to your owne acknowledg And here let all Men take notice that by this exposition you overthrowe your owne excomunication quite and accuse Christ for giveing a rule Mat. 18. and Th-appostle Paul and the church of Corinth for practizing that rule â— Cor 5. In casâ—ing out of the Church For you say all must growe together to the end in the Church But the exposition of the Law-giver himselff is against you that the â—eild is the world vers 38. Yet in that you confesse that the wicked aÌ„d the Godly must be lâ—t alone in the Church vnto the end much more in the world vnto the end For if the wicked pollute not the Church sure it is they pollute not the world This then you are comaunded vnto vers 29.30 Nay gather them not let them growe together vnto the end of the world A. Let them come to Church they shall grovve together vnto the end C. Indeed I thinke so hereby you manifest you regard not how wicked and vngodlie men be so they come to your Church you wil not destroy theÌ„ though they remaine in their abhominable lusts but if they will not come to your Chur let theÌ„ be wheate or tares you wil gather theÌ„ and as much as in you is send them to burâ—â—nâ— Herein al meÌ„ may see as I said before that you seeke your owne glorie and obedience not gods aÌ„d so exalt your selves above God 2. thes 2 I. Wel I blesse God I see this as clearly as the sunne shyning in his brightnes that it is to feight against God to compel any contrarie to their consciences to performe any service vnto him in that there are so many places of Scripture comaunding the contrary C The whole new Testament throughout in all the doctrines and practices of Christ aÌ„d his disciples teach no such thinge as coÌ„pelling men by persecutions aÌ„d afflictions to obey the go pel but the direct coÌ„trary viz to suffer at the haÌ„ds of the wicked wheÌ„ they were persecuted for righteousnes sake to suffer it when the vnbeleevers aÌ„d wicked curse them to blesse pray for their repentance that God would forgive them never lay these sinnes to their charge as our Saviour Luk. 23 34. Stephen Act. 7.60 and the rest did And for a conclusioÌ„ of this point that your faith may bee full herein consider that wee are to wait for the Iewes conversion and not to destroy theÌ„ I. It is true that might give all men satisfaction in these thinges C. Oh yes if Men had any regard of God or his word they would never deale more in this thinge the lord wee see RoÌ„ 11. hath promised that
wheÌ„ the fulnes of the gentiles is come in the jewes shal be coÌ„verted now if the jewes who are such fearefull blasphemers of Christ aÌ„d his gospel that contemne him and his TestameÌ„t with al dispyte if their conversion must be waited for aÌ„d that they may not be destroyed from the face of the Earth then who may not see iff they shut not their eies that the conversion off all is to bee waited for and that no man for blaspheming Christ aÌ„d his gospel map be destroyed or afflicted by imprisonments death or any calamitie whatsoever I. It is not to be gain-saied with any shewe of truth I would God the Kings Ma tie would consider of this point seeing that the cruel Bbs by vseing his power commit such sin against God in this thinge both in persecuting theÌ„ that cannot of faith yeild and also in foreeing them that do yeild contrary to their consciences to sin against God and to perish if they repeÌ„t not C. I am perswaded that if his highnes did but once wel wey aÌ„d consider it he would never suffer such high iniquitie to be coâ—â—iâ—ted against God contrary to his expresse comaundement aÌ„d all to bee done by â—he Kings power for nothing have they els to beare them out The Lord perswade the harts of his Ma tie and his posterity vnto it seeing his throne is established by him that he and his posterity may sit raigne over these Nations and Kingdoms till Iesus Christ the comaunder of these thinges come in his glorie to recompence every Man according to his workes without respect of persons A. If vvicked malefactors should bee let allone to the end of the vvorld then vvhere is the Magistrats svvorde it is of no force if evil men may not be cut of C. I acknowledg vnfainedly that God hath given to Magistrats a sword to cut of wicked meÌ„ and to reward the weldoers Rom. 13 chap. But this Ministery is a worldly Ministery their sword is a worldly sword their punishments can extend no further then the outward man they can but kil the bodie Luk. 12.4 And therefore this Ministery and sword is apointed onely to punish the breach of worldly ordinaÌ„ces which is al that God hath given to any mortal man to punish The King may make lawes for the safetie aÌ„d good of his person state and subjects against the which whosoever is disloyall or disobedient he may dispose of at his pleasure the Lord hath given him this sword and authoritie forseeing in his eternal wisedome that if this his ordinance of Magistracie were nor there would be no liveing for men in the world and especially for the Godly aÌ„d therefore the Godly have particular cause to glorifie God for this his blessed ordinance of Magistracie and to regard it with all reverence But now the breach of Christs lawes of the which wee all this while speake which is the thinge onely I stand vpon his Kingdome is spirituall his lawes spirituall the transgressions spirituall the punishment spirituall everlasting death of soule his sword spirituall no carnall or worldly weapon is given to the supportation of his kingdome nor to punish the transgressors of the lawes of this kingdome The law-giver himself hath comaunded that the transgressors of these lawes should be set alone vntil the harvest because he knowes they that are now tares may hereafter come to repeÌ„tance and bâ—come wheat they that are now blasphemers persecutors oppressors as Paul was may by the power of Gods word become faithfull and a faithful witnes as he was They that are now fornicators etc. as some of the Corin once were 1 Cor. 6.9 may here after become washed clensed sanctified as they were they that are now to people nor vnder mercie as the Saints sometimes were 1. Pet. 2.10 may hereafter become the people of god obtaine mercie as they did all come not at the First houre some come not till the eleaventh houre if those that come not till the last houre should be destroyed because they come not at the first houre then should they never come but be prevented A. Were not blasphemers put to death in time of he lavv 1 evit 24.11 c. C. Yes an Isralite blasphemmy the Lord or doeing any thinge presumptiously which was blasphemy Num. 15.30 no sacrifice to bee offered for him but would you from hence have the kings Ma tie to put al his subjects to death that conteinne the truth of Christ If yea see what will followe All Papists ought to be put to death who are direct blasphemers Revel 16 10.11 VVhen the viall of Gods wrath was powred vpon the throne of the Beast which all England confesse is ment the Popish power they blasphemed the God of Heaven c. All the Iewes that speake many thinges blasphemously against Christ ought to be put to death Yea of what profession soever he bee doeing any thinge presumpteously against Christ ought to bee put to death by your affirmation no sacrifice to bee offered no repentance to be admitted dye he must vnder two or three witnesses but that this is most false Christ and his Appostles in his TestameÌ„t doth manifestli declare as is before shewed was no Paul a blasphemer yet received to mercie But this the Holie Ghost teacheth from blasphemy vnder the law Heb. 10. He that dispyseth Moses Lawe dieth without mercie vnder two or three witnesses of how much sorer punishment suppose ye shall he bee worthy that treadeth vnder foote the Sonne of God counteth the blood off the Testament as an vnholy thinge wherewith he was sanctified doth dispite the Spirit of grace Speaking of such as had received acknowledged the truth vers 26. This is now the due proportion an Israelite according to the flesh in the time of the law presumpteously sinninge against Gods comaundemeÌ„t by his comaund must dye by the worldly sworde no sacrifice to be offered for him so in the new Testament or time of the gospel a spiritual Isralite according to the faith contempteously or dispitefully sinning against Christs commaund he hath former acknowledged dispiâ—eing and contemning them by his comaund must dye by the spirituall sword no repentance to be admitted seeing he crucifyeth againe to himself the sonne of God makes a mock of him Heb. 6.6 David and Peter came not within this compasse though they sinned off knowledg yet they did it not comtemteously or dispitefully but through frailtie If an Isralite vnder the Law did ought through ignorance as Num. 15. or through frailtie as Levit. 6. There was sacrifice for him so vnder the gospel an Isralit doeing ought through ignoraÌ„ce or through frailtie as Peter and Barnabas with the rest of the Iewes mencioned Gal. 2. or the meâ—steous person 1. Cor. 5. There is repentance for him This is it that coÌ„founds al true religioÌ„ That be cause it was so in the time of the law therefore it may be so in the time of the gospell by
serveing him their Maister In one respect they shal be saved in another respect they shal be damned but what false doctrine this is Gods holy word doth discover Our Saviour saith No man can serve two maisters ye cannot serve God and Riches Mat. 6.25 And can any serve Christ and the Beast God and the Dragon when Christ shal come at the last day to give to every Man according to his workes wil he say to any one In respect of thy personal graces I will save thee come thou blessed as he wil say to all his Children But in respect of thy being a Member of Antichrists body I will damne thee go thou cursed as he wil to al that worship or obey the Beast wil not Christ Iesus pronounce absolutely either salvation or condemnation to every one And that according to this word Ioh. 12 48. so as God in his righteousnes will either justify or condemne every Man so hath he taught vs to knowe that no Fountaine can make salt water and sweet Iam. 3.12 And therefore that by mens fruits wee should knowe and judg theÌ„ to be not both good and evill trees at one time as this opinion teacheth but either good or evill alwayes takeing heed wee justify not the wicked nor condemne the innocent both which are abhominable to the lord aÌ„d for any comunioÌ„ whatsoever with them what fellowship hath Christ with Antychrist the righteous with the wicked the servant of the lambe with the Servants of the beast but I leave this for further answere to those who although they are nearer to this man that hath published this opinioÌ„ theÌ„ I am yet hath according to truth confessed in writinge That there is nothing to be expected froÌ„ Christ by any member of the Church of England but a powâ—ing out of his eternal wrath vpon them Mr. De-Cluse Advertis Pag. 9. I. Wel I praise God I am much enformed in these thinges yet one thinge more I wil desire your answere vnto The case standeth thus with me In these thinges I am betwixt faith and doubting though the rather I beleeve these thinges you say are true and that I may never go to these assemblies againe without sin but I am not so perswaded thereoff that I dare suffer for it what if I should not haveing faith to suffer for feare of persecution go to their worship againe C. It were your most feareful sin which I prove thus and I pray you observe it wel you must do it either as being verely perswaded you do well and then al this beginning of light in you should bee extinguished aÌ„d so your estate is with the worst if not worse or els you must do it doubting whether you do wel or no For I hope you wil not say you do it knowing you do evil If you do it doubting the Lord saith It is sin Rom. 14.23 Which I hope you will acknowledg and not approve your selfe to do wel in syning and then God is mercifull to forgive your sinne either this or any other 1. Iohn 1.9 But iff you say you sinne not therein doeing it doubtingly you make God a lyar who saith It is sin your sin remaineth I. What iff I should many times go through weaknes C. If you vnfainedly repent being through weaknes there is mercy with God though it should be seaventy times seven times in a day Mat 18.21.22 But wee had need to take heed of our repentance Th-apostle saith where there is Godly sorrowe for sin what care it worketh in you yea what indignation c. 2. Cor. 7. and custome in sin is dangerous wee had need to take heed wee be not hardned through the deceitfulnes of sin heb 3.13 I. Then you how that if any Man approve himselfe in syninge his sin remaineth C. If any man sin and say he hath not sinned there is no truth in him 1. Ioh. 1.8 and God vvill enter into judgment with him Ier. 2.35 I. Then absolutely I see that if any man worship the beast or his ymage etc. as before you have shewed he neither hath faith nor feare of God in him what shewe of Godlines soever he maketh But what say you man not a Man that seperateth from all vncleanenes though he yet see not the way off Christ in his Ordinances may not such a Man bee saved C. Yes vpon this conditioÌ„ that he beleeve in Iesus Christ for his onely righteousnes and be willing and ready to heare and obey his ordinances example hereof wee have in Cornelius Act. 10. But if anie wil not heare that Prophet Chr Iesus in al thinges whatsoever he shal say vnto theÌ„ shal be destroied out of his people Act. 3.22.23 A. What do you meane by wil not heare C. That when any parte of the waies of God is manifest to them they despise and contemne it or carelesly neglect it otherwise men may not receive some of Christs truth aÌ„d yet not be said that they wil not receive it I. Next after forsaking the wayes of wickednes and imbraceing Christ for our righteousnes what must wee do C. Christs whole Testament teacheth this and no other way after repentance from dead workes and faith towards God to be baptized with water Mat. 16.16 Act. 2.41 and 8.12.38 and 9.18 and a clowde of witnesses calling these the beginnings of Christ and foundation Heb. 6.1 etc. I. May none be admitted to the Church to pertake in the ordinances except they be baptized If any teach otherwise he presumeth above that which is write 1. Cor. 4.6 aÌ„d therefore ought to be held accursed Gal. 1.8.9 For there was never true Church since Christs manifesting in the flesh joyned together of vnbaptized persons though some have vainely published the contrary I. True I thinke that cannot be denyed where the persoÌ„s were never baptized but now the members of the Church off Rome from whence the baptisme of the Church of England cometh are baptized therefore why need they againe be baptized C. If they bee baptized with Christs baptisme I wil acknowledg they need not againe be baptized but that the baptisme of the Chur of Rome is Christs baptisme that can never bee proved for Christ requireth that onely his Disciple should baptise his disciple and into his body none of which is in Romes baptisme For Christs adversaries wash with water those that are not Christs Disciples into the body not of Christ but of Antichrist I. I confesse that the Church of Rome and meÌ„bers there of are the Church and members of Antichrist but they vse the water and words in their baptisme that Christ appointed C. What theÌ„ is it therefore Chr baptisme the conjurers vsed the same words that thApostles did Act. 19.13 etc. wee adjure you by the name off Iesus c. yet abhominable was their action also Psal 50. Vnto the wicked said God what haist thou to do with my ordinaÌ„ces or to take my word in thy moueth c. also the Papists vse the same words of their