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A00273 A dialogue or Familiar talke betwene two neighbours co[n]cernyng the chyefest ceremonyes, that were, by the mighti power of Gods most holie pure worde, suppressed in Englande, and nowe for vnworthines, set vp agayne by the bishoppes, the impes of Antichrist: right learned, profitable, and pleasaunt to be read, for the comfort of weake co[n]sciences in these troublous daies. Read first, and then iudge. 1554 (1554) STC 10383; ESTC S115543 27,807 78

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saith images are leud mēs bokes Oliu. Had he said leud bookes he had said truly I prai ye what had men learned of images a sore the of the scripture came amongst vs Learned we any other thing then that the prophet Hieremye complaineth vpon to lye to forget God and to runne after ydols as the old idolaters did Hereof cam our famous idols at Ipswiche at VValsingham at Canturburye at Hayles at Dunstable and euerye where For the Iewes had neuer mo idols mo blinde superstitions mo detestable whoore huntinges then we had And al this may we thanck our holi ipocrites bishops and shoren greased priestes that set vs to schoole vpon such blind bookes VVho coulde .xx. yeares agone ▪ saye the Lordes prayer in English who could tell anye one article of his faith who had once heard of any of the .x. commaundements who wist what Cathechisme ment who vnderstoode any point of the holye baptisme As for the Lordes supper no man euer knew whither ther were ani suche thynges or no. Yf we were sycke of the pestylence we ran to Sainte Rooke if of the Ague to Saint Pernel or master Iohn Shome if men were in prisō thei praied to saint Leonarde if the welch man wold haue a pursse he praied to Daruel Gatherne if a wife wer weary of her husband she of fred otes at Poules at Londō to s Vncumber Thus haue we bene deluded with their images thus we will be deluded still And our solempne doctours preach as sauerly in the maintenaunce of these idolatries as thoughe there neuer had bene ani such things But Nicholas beware of such bookes such leude sir Iohns that set thee to schoole vpon them And harkē to gods cōmaundementes which saith Exod. xx Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen image nor ani similitude of anye thing that is in heauen aboue or in earth beneth or in waters vnder the earth thou shalt not bowe thy selfe to them nor worship them I a sure the Nicholas the image made by mans hand set furth to be kneled knocked vnto to be sēced licked and kissed or any otherwise worshipped is a cursed of god euē it he that made it And as the holi psalme saith Psa cxiii Thei haue eies se not eares heare not noses with out breath or smelling hāds with out feling feete go not like thē mot thei be that made them al that put their cōfidence trust in them Nich. Our forefathers had them in great worship Oliu. It is full true that is bred in the bone wil not out of the flesh Our forefathers grandfathers wer deluded with hipocrites shal we be so to I told thee before that our forefathers that we shuld folow ar Christ his prophets apostles not our grandsires great grandsires And sure I am they worshipped none nor gaue ani commaundement that we should worshyp them Nic. They are goodly thinges become the church wel Afore the churches loked more like old barnes Oli. Nicholas ye speake like your self I am sori for your old blindnes that think al things goodly that shineth gay in your eyes ye nothing regard what is accepted in the sight of god wold it please ye wel if one shuld come into your house paint the wals with cow dōg or with maser scourings Nic. I shuld paint him with a cracked crown if I could cōe by him Oli. Then as he shuld please you nothing but rather cast you in to a futi no more do these image-makers please god but prouoketh his anger For god in the writings of the prophetes calleth images dong filthe abhomination the worshyppers of them he calleth whooremongers backeslyders rūagates breakers of his league couenant Nich. we do not worship the thing we see but god and his saintes that ar represented bi the images Ol. No image cā represēt god as the scriptur saith plainli And I thinke the apostles prophets martirs virgīs neuer knew ani such pōpe or vaniti as the puppets in churches seteth forthwith vain gilding painting nether require thei such honors but wolde we should honour the Lorde our god of whose goodnes they receiued such mercie to be made saintes And to honour them is to folowe their faith in beleuīg gods word and their vertuouse life in keping gods commaundementes and not so vainely without gods word to paint and gild their images to cādel them and sence them and so commit idolatrie VVhat and thy seruaunt should serue thee as he list not as thou apointedst him Nicho. Then woulde I giue hym wages as I thought he had deserued and not as he looked for Oli. How shal thy seruāt know what thy minde is for him to do Nich. He must aske me and I wyll tell him Oliue So then we must aske at gods word and learne there to know his pleasure and according to the same we must doo But in this gods cōmaundement is thou shalt make none thou shalt worship none Now were he a good seruaunt that wold worshyp the wyth breakyng thy commaundementes Nich. Nay by my trothe Oliu. No more worshippest thou god or his saintes but committest grosse idolatrie God is a spirit those that wil worship him must worship him in spirit and truthe That is we worship not god tyll we doo from the botome of the hart acknowledge his almightye power and goodnes truly fear him and truely loue him and studiously serue him with the faithful obseruation of his commaundementes So shal we nede no visible image to expresse vnto vs the inuisible God And as cōserning worshipping of the saintes it is far other then painting or gilding of images or finding of lightes before them as I haue before told the. Nicho. And me thinck it becommeth the churche wel and is a goodly sight to se the sweete images well paynted wyth fayre lightes afore them a very good smel to feele the perfumes and odours whē sir Iohn senceth Oli. This is thy thincking but S. Paule asked the Corinthians how agreeth the temple of god and idols And as for candels they dyd well in churches when the people met in the night as the old Christians were wont to do for feare of persecution and we do yet on Christmas daye Easter day mornyng But in faire day light men neede them not and the images can not se them And yf perfumes were burnt to purifi the aire in the churche it is tollerable but to do it to the saintes which are in heauen it is nedeles and to do it to the ymages of tīber or stone it is starke foolishe fransie In very deede in the olde Testament Ex. xxxvii God made a golden candelsticke with lampes burning vpon it in the temple and he ordained perfumes and odours to be brent vpon his aultar but at the cōmyng of Christ Heb. ix those Iewish ceremonies ceassed For when Christ the true lighte was come and had shedde
A DIALOGVE OR FAMILIAR talke betwene two neighbours cōcernyng the chyefest ceremonyes that were by the mighti power of Gods most holie pure worde suppressed in Englande and nowe for our vnworthines set vp agayne by the Bishoppes the impes of Antichrist right learned profitable and pleasaunt to be read for the comfort of weake cōsciences in these troublous daies Read first and then iudge From Roane by Michael Wodde the .xx. of February Anno. Domi. M. D.L.IIII A TALKE BETWENE OLYuer a professour of the Gospell and Nicholas noseled in the blynde superstitions NIcholas Good morow gossyb Oliuer God gyue you good morow good Nicholas whyther away so sone this morning Nicho. To church man heardest thou not the bell ryng to masse Oliuer Ye were not wont to be so hasty a morninges to churchwardes Nicho. No for when we came ther ther was nothing to do but to heare a priest babble But now I thancke God I may se my maker againe Oliu. Your maker Nicholas who is that Nicho. The great apple maker of holdernes Oliu. Apple maker ye mean God do you not Nicholas Yes marye do I. Olyu Then I perceiue that so long as Gods commaundementes were read in the Churches ye counted it bablyng neither delited ye in hearing thē but now ye haue somwhat to gase at that pleaseth ye But Nicholas I haue heard it said that no man euer saw God wyth his mortall eye Ex. xxxiii Iohn i. Nicho. Yea these heritickes tell vs so but I trust to see a good mani of them fry a faggot for this geare yet long Oliu. Are ye there now Nicholas I had went ye had loued and fauoured the word of God set out by our late most gratiouse vertuouse innocēt king Nicho. So I dyd as long as he lyued but now that he is dead I wil do as most men do so shal fewest men wonder at me Oli. In veri dede it is a politique worldli saying but Nicholas thynckest thou that god is dead Nic. Nay by my fayth Oliu. what and God wonder at the to se the so vnconstāt and vnstedfast waueryng as the wynde as a weathereocke doth that stādeth vpō the steple Nich. Ther are no weathercockes then one Oliuer Yea Nicholas that I thincke and mo then stand vpon steeples also but we shuld not do as the most do but as the best doeth Nich. So do I for I do as the richest in al the country doth and as all the greatest learned men do in al the countrey Oliu. Rytches are a good gyft of God but when they preuaile and to much addict a mans hart vnto them they make the same skant a good man Neyther are the greatest clearkes the wisest men alwai nor yet the best But they be the best that prefer gods honour before all thynges and that constantly abyde in the truth therof how soeuer the rytchest men greatest clerkes turne them selues frō it And this I meruel with what faces men can looke to be accompted Christians that deale so vnfaithfully with Christ For eyther they tooke it for the truth that was set out amongst vs or for an vntruth Yf they tooke it for a truth why do they now vntruly go from it as though there wer no truth in it Yf thei knew it to be no truth but false doctrine why dyd they not as Christen mē defend that doctrine which they knewe to be a truthe Nich. They durst not for fear Oliu. wo worth that feare that putteth away the feare of God notwythstandyng ther was no suche cause of feare For al the raigne of that most gratious king their raigned mercye pitye long sufferaunce and patient abyding for amendes euen of them that when thei were confuted so that neither their wit nor learning was able to withstand the truth yet maliciously they would not consent nor agree vnto it but outwardlye afore men to flatter those that were in authoritie thei bare them selues as great forwarders of the kinges procedinges as could be ▪ and what they were inwardly now appereth vnto al mē Nicho. They were worldly wyse men Oliu. Ye say truth worldly wyse in dede but such wisdome is great foly before God and vnto such wise men as Christ saith ar the secretes of god hiddē so that thei neither haue faith in god nor in his sonne Iesus Christ they neither haue the feare of his iudgementes nor loue of his mercy For these things ar geuen vnto babes to the outcastes of this world that ar coūted foles outcastes as their master Christ was These do not seke to flatter kinges and prynces but they seke to please God and to set forth his truth with the los if God so lay the burthen vpon them of goodes frendes name euē their life which of these trow ye ar most worthy to be folowed Nicho. I can not tel I. we dyd wel inough afore and better then we haue done since for we had neuer good world since this geare began But our sir Iohn telleth vs another lessō Oli. what I prai the Nich. Mary that he maketh God euery day at his masse Oliue Can syr Iohn make thy maker Nicho. Yea that he doth euery dai Oliue And doth he shew him vnto the Nicho. Yea he is as faire a lifter as ani is within Hamshire Oliu. And what doth he with hī afterward Nich. what man eat him or hang him in the Pix Oliu. Than he maketh him and eateth him Nicho. what els Oliue what hangeth in the Pix Nich. Gods bodi sacred Oliue Thou saydest syr Iohn dyd eate gods bodye Nicho. Yea so I said Oliue How can he eate hym hang him vp to Nich. I can not reason such hie matters I beleue as our sir Iohn telleth vs. Oliuer who made goddes bodye sacred Nich. Marye sit Iohn Oliue And who made sir Iohn Nich. God made him Oliue Then he is euen with god and maketh him again Nich. we trow so for sir Ihon is a prest anointed Oliu. who made him a priest anoynted Nich. The Bishop Oliue wherwyth anoynted he him Nich. with oyle in the Chrismatorye Oliue who made the Byshoppe Nich. The Pope Oliue Then the Pope made the Byshop the Byshop greased syr Iohn sir Iohn made God Nich By our blessed Ladye Oliuer ye are as bad as the best and I am sory to se you fal to this new learning Oliue In good faith Nicholas I am sory to se you and many a thousand mo thus to fal againe from gods word to your old superstitious errours and idolatries Nic. we beleue as our forefathers did Oliu. what cal ye forfathers Nich. Mary my father my grandsire and my great grandsire Oliu. Is thy father aliue Nich. Yea but he is at the last cast Oliue Howe long is it since thy graundsire dyed Nich. He died .xx yere synce when I was twelue yere old Oli. How thinkest thou was not saint Peter and saint Paule forefathers Nich. Yes marye Oliue was not Christ a forefather Nich. yes