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A78461 Certain considerable and most materiall cases of conscience, wherewith divers wel-affected in this kingdom are much perplexed, the cleering wherof would worthily deserve the paines of the Assembly at London. 1645 (1645) Wing C1688; Thomason E270_7; ESTC R212357 14,633 26

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spilling meerly upon carnall motives Religion is indeed partly pretended but draw this faire Curtain aside and behind it there stands the carnall care of self-seeking seeking to save our Skins and Purses we are unwilling to suffer for Religion and therefore we would establish a Religion according to our own minds we would willingly prevent Ship-money and other burthens and therefore we desire to have more power in our own hands and lesse in the Kings so this War in the up shot is altogether to save our selves from trouble which we know not whether it will ever come upon us and yet here it is to be considered withall whether the good that is aimed at in it will justifie all the evils that have been committed by it nay whether if all that was feared by our over-forward jealousies had been brought upon us we could possibly have been in so bad a condition as this War hath put us so doth the wise Lord justly Crosse mens carnall proceedings XXII Whether it be not extream rashnesse to affirm That the whole Catholike Church in the point of Episcopacy was in an error all the world over 1500. yeers together That the whole Church was governed by Bishops all the world over till Mr. Calvins time of late at Genevae is known to all and amongst those Bishops to reckon up how many burning and shining lights how many zealous propagators and propugnators of the truth how many learned Professors how many constant Confessors how many glorious Martyrs have been found from time to time though amongst them as amongst men of all callings there have been some faulty were a work large enough to fill a spacious volume and if notwithstanding all this we shall blemish them and the whole Church of God that not onely tolerated but honoured them if we shall blemish them all with an error about the lawfullnesse of their calling shall we not take more upon us then the Psalmist durst to take upon himself he did not dare to condemn the generation of Gods Children Psal 73.15 XXIII Whether our party being so divided some being Presbyterians and some Independents and both sides contending strongly that each of their severall disciplines is that discipline which Christ hath ordained and appointed in his Church whether it be not apparent to all the world that one of them must be in an error Two contraries can never be both true and while one maintains a dependency and the other an Indepency there is between them a contrariety XXIIII Whether it being undeniable rashnesse to condemn Episcopary as before and an error being unavoydably acknowledged in one branch of our party both branches also being equally confident of their assertions and both introducing novelty whether there be not just cause to suspect them both as erroneous and lesse agreeing to the word of God then is Episcopacy XXV Whether the case being so uncertain and disputable there be any necessity so much blood should be spilt and so many lives lost for the removoll of the old and bringing in of a new government It was Davids Prayer and he utter'd it with some sense oa heavy burthen that was upon him deliver me from blood-guiltinesse O God and he had killed but one Vriah and a few more with him but so many thousand being lost amongst us and so much blood spilt for the change of a government if it be without necessity Oh how intolerable will this guilt be on whom soever it lights whether on the Parliament that begun it or on the assembly that did not since warn them of it or on us all that have been their well-wishers and abettors in it XXVI Whether Christ did ever prescribe such a way as this for setting up his throne viz. the use of the bloody sword Our Saviour doth injoyn his Disciples to take up the Crosse and follow him so far is he from commanding them to impose the Crosse on others and when the Samaritans would not receive him he did not allow his Disciples to execute vengeance upon them yea when his Enemies came to apprehend him yet he forbids Peter to use a sword for his own defence neither will it help to say that our Saviour was at that time to suffer for our Redemption and that therefore he did forbid Peter to use a sword in his defence had our Saviour aimed at nothing else it had been enough to have rebuked Peter for his present action without mention of a rule for perpetuity but when our Saviour doth not onely rebuke him but also as a reason of his rebuke doth annex the establishment of a perpetuall Law all that take the sword shall perrish by the sword he doth thereby shew that not onely at that time but also at all times he forbids a sword to be taken up against the civill Magistrate for his sake XXVII Whether in our consciences we be not perswaded that the State of the Kingdom might without war and with his Majesties good leave and furtherance have been reduced from its deviations unto the happy condition wherein it flourished in the blessed dayes of good Queen Elizabeth About the beginning of this Parliament there was some such thing commended by His Majesty in his speech unto the Parliament for a Reformation not an Alteration and never did any Nation live more happy then the people of England did in those golden dayes which were since continued also though some ecclipses of that happinesse a just judgement upon us for the abuse of our long Peace and Plenty have of late befallen us Religion flourished Soules were saved every man sate under his own Vine in safety and if we might have obtained so happy a condition without War let all the world judge whether that which we desire beyond the condition of those times be worthy of the losse of so much as one mans life or no and if not of one much lesse of so many thousands The Parliament-men were chosen sent up out of their severall Countreys respectively for the good of the Kingdom and Oh that they would seriously consider as they expect to answer it before Gods tribunall seat at the great Judgement day whether would be better for the Kingdom to have been restored to the condition it injoyed in Queen Elizabeths dayes or to be reduced to the plight in which now it stands I but though it be bad now yet it will be better when we have wrought a perfect reformation hereafter Be it so and let us feed our selves with those hopes but yet the question doth still remain The happy condition of Queen Elizabeths Reign we might have had freely the glorious contentment which we dream of beyond the condition of that Queens dayes hath already cost much blood the question is whether that glorious contentment which we think to obtain God knows when will be a sufficient recompence for all the lives that have and shall be lost in the obtaining of it neither is this all the losse of so many thousand