did the former Ioh. 16.13 Certainly the Spirit that leadeth into all truth is yet and euer shall bee amongst vs vnto the end of the world And as before the writings of the Fathers were hee directed his Church vnto the true sence of Scripture so now I doubt not but if all whatsoeuer they haue written were vtterly lost he would still guide vs therein as hee did them And verily vnlesse wee will bee too vnthankfull wee cannot but confesse that as age through Gods bounty hath had more meanes then those heretofore so through his blessing it hath made further proceedings also in the knowledge of Scripture For besides that wee haue whatsoeuer helps they had we haue ouer and aboue the benefit of all their works together with much skilfulnes in the Originall of the old Testament which most of them wanted and of the new also wherewith some were but little acquainted In regard whereof whosoeuer shall duly compare the ancient Commentaries with those of latter times must needs bee either weake in iudgement or obstinate in preiudice if hee preferre not these Your owne men ingenuously acknowledge so much Art 18. cont Luther It cannot bee vnknowne to any saith Fisher B. of Rochester that there are many things as well in other Scriptures as the Gospels now more cleerely discussed and throughly vnderstood then in ancient times namely because the Ancients had not the yce broken vnto them or because their age sufficed not exactly to sound the whole sea of Scripture In Rom. 5. disp 51. And Salmeron God hath not giuen to all men all that euery age might enioy some truths which the former knew not Euery age hath euer ascribed much to antiquity yet this wee auouch the yonger the Doctors the cleerer sighted And Dominicus Bannes Jt is not necessary that the more remote the Church is from the Apostles times the lesse perfect knowledge of the mysterie of Faith should bee therein because after the Apostles time there were not the most learned in the Church which had dexterity in vnderstanding the matters of Faith Wee are not therefore enwrapped in the more darknesse for that in respect of time wee are more distant from Christ but rather the Doctors of these latter times being godly and treading in the steps of the ancient Fathers haue attained more expresse vnderstanding in some things then they had For they are like children standing on the shoulders of Giants who being lifted by the talnesse of Giants no maruell if they see further then they themselues In Luc. 10. This similitude Stella also vseth to the same purpose God forbid saith he that I should condemne what such and so many wise men haue with one accord affirmed yet wee know well that Pigmies set on the shoulders of Giants see further then the Giants themselues doe Thus they Whereby you see the Fathers haue no prerogatiue aboue vs because they were before vs but wee rather haue the aduantage because wee come after them In a word bee they whatsoeuer you will their seruants wee are not but their fellow seruants sent from God with the same commission to the same end and with the same promises that they were Neither doth their authority more bind vs in that they are our predecessors then our authority shall bind them who many ages hereafter may be our successors But draw we a little closer The ancient Fathers say you are the ground of your Faith What seuerally and single by themselues 〈◊〉 12. I suppose no for there is not one of them as your owne side confesseth but hath his error and I presume you would bee loth to follow them therein The Fathers therefore either all iointly or the more part of them agreeing in one So Canus Loc. lib. 7. c. 3. What the greater part of the Fathers iudgeth that wee professe to bee of the Catholicke Faith So Salmeron also In 1. Ioh. 3. disp 25. When all or almost all Fathers agree in one it is an ineuitable argumeÌ„t And Gregory of Valentia It is infallibly true which they deliuer with one consent Anal. l. 8. c. 8. â—ea an infallible rule iudging And Onuphrius Prim. Pap. p. 1. c. 6. It is rash and foolish and terrible rashnesse to goe against a sense giuen by the Fathers for the vnderstanding of the Scriptures And finally the Councell of Trent which peremptorily chargeth that no man dare to interprete the Scriptures against the vnanimous consent of the Fathers This then vndoubtedly being your assertion as euery way according with the Tenet of the Church of Rome let vs in Gods name trie the strength thereof and see with what security and safety a man may aduenture his Faith and consequently his eternall saluation vpon this ground And first whosoeuer will stedfastly repose his Faith vpon consent of Fathers had need be right well assured which are the authenticall writings of the Fathers For if these bee doubtfull and vncertaine the whole frame raised vpon them must of necessity shake and totter Now that there are bookes more then a good many which in their forefronts are inscribed and entitled vnto the Fathers yet in truth are meerely suppositious and apocryphall I know you cannot bee ignorant Nor Origen nor Athanasius nor Basil nor Chrysostome nor Cyril nor Tertullian nor Cyprian nor Ambrose nor Hierâ—me nor Augustin nor any one almost of all the Fathers but hath suffered notorious wrong in this kind hauing base brats and misbegotten bastards fathered vpon him Which also is so cleere and manifest that Posseuin and Salmeron and Maldonat and Baronius and Bellarmine and all the rest of that side though too frequently they make vse of such refuse stuffe yet euery where in their writings are constrained to acknowledge so much Biblioth l. 4. But amongst the rest Sixtus Senensis especially who purposely recording the works of all the Fathers taketh vpon him to demonstrate as much in euery one of them as in his Catalogue hee passeth from one Father to another So that indeed it would bee but an idle wasting both of oile and time if I should spend many words in proofe of that which is denied of none and therefore I forbeare further to trouble you with particularity Only because in our Conference you so confidently affirmed that Dionysius the Areopagite euen he who was Saint Pauls conuert and Scholler was the right Author of all those books that are now extant vnder his name I must entreat you to haue a little patience while I maintaine against you the negatiue which I then held and for which I stand still engaged vnto you That this Denise is but a counterfait but Diuines proue by sundry vnanswerable arguments I will not vrge them all but cull out the choicest Omitting therefore the Stile sauouring more of three hundred yeeres after then those Apostolicall times and his curious speculations in the secrets of heauen as if hee had beene surueyer thereof or had taken a muster
credit of my Ministery to wipe away the slanderous aspersions and imputations of I know not what strange opinions and dangerous intentions wrongfullie if not maliciously charged vpon me lest if I dissemble them I bee thought to confesse them or to approue them if I refell them not Thirdly and lastly in regard of others and among the rest those my good friends especially who occasioned the preaching of this doctrine partly to preserue from recidiuation such as by the comfortablenesse thereof were recouered out of great distresse and partly to preuent others from falling into the like perplexitie Although therefore I denie not but that good houres bestowed vpon so bad a subiect might haue beene more profitably employed especially considering that by the violent struggling thereof against the rooke of truth it hath whollie turned it selfe into froth and hath not so much as a drop of cleere reason in it yet notwithstanding for the reasons aforesaid and that it may perfectly appeare how stedfast and vnmoued the rocke stands and how little the stormes and tempests raised against it haue preuailed vpon it I haue thought good to skim away the fome of Sophistrie wrought about it and to discouer the very ground whereon it is setled Which when I shall haue done I doubt not howsoeuer my aduersary with his tong-valiantnes and swelling words may haue made vnexperienced folke belieue that with the breath of his mouth hee is able to driue whole armies of arguments before him yet I shall approue euen to the iudgement of preiudice it selfe that whatsoeuer in this windie wordie Pamphlet he hath vented against me is vainer then vanitie it selfe And thus Christian Reader haue I at length fully acquainted thee with the whole story both of the originall and progresse of this controuersie Now it remaineth ere thou passe thy censure and sentence thereupon that thou be pleased to bestow a little paines in perusing our aduersary writings and what thou findest in them said or gainsaid diligently to examine not by the deceitfull ballance of priuate opinion but by the publicke beame of the Sanctuarie euen the Scriptures of God For mans siluer is mingled with drosse Esa 1.22 and his wine is tempered with water neither hath he receiued such a measure of the Spirit as to know all things or to be exempted from possibility of erring but God is light and in him is no darknesse 1 Ioh. 1.5 and truth is vnto him so necessary and essentiall as it is impossible hee should either deceiue or be deceiued it implying contradiction with his nature And therefore the priuilege of infallibility belonging vnto him alone to him alone belongeth also the prerogatiue of supreme iudicature so that whatsoeuer he saith is simply and absolutely to bee belieued whereas the sayings of men are by his word to be tried and determined This I say not to impeach the credit or estimation of any only I would reserue vnto God the Soueraigne authority due vnto him Which if any presume to arrogate or claime vnto himselfe as indeed the Bishop of Rome doth vnto his chaire as if it were made of Irish timber and might not endure a spider to hang his web thereon hee is vndoubtedly possessed with the Spirit of Antichristian pride and like another Lucifer vsurpeth vpon the throne of God But they that are led by the Spirit of Christ and haue beene reputed the worthiest instruments and ornaments in the Church acknowledging holy Writ to be the Standard of truth and the only vnmoued Principle into which all Questions of Faith are finally to bee resolued boldly exact the writings of other men thereunto and meekely submit their owne to be censured thereby Let one S. Augustin speake for all The disputations of men saith he Epist 111. ad Fortunatian how Catholicke or laudable soeuer we ought not to esteeme as Canonicall Scripture as if it were not lawfull sauing the honor due vnto them to disallow or reiect any thing in their writings if happily wee find ought in them swaruing from truth Such am I in the writings of other men and so would I haue others to vnderstand in mee Now therefore to draw to a conclusion seeing to thy vpright censure and arbitrement I referre my selfe and the rule by which thou art to proceed if thou wilt pronounce righteously is as we haue shewed not the opinion of man but the oracle of God I must entreate thee that laying aside all respect of persons thou suffer not thy selfe to bee swayed either with the multitude or greatnes of those that are contrary minded but conferring cause with cause and counterpoising reason against reason thou giue thy iudgement of them as the weight of Diuine euidence shall incline thee For otherwise if like a partiall Festus willing to doe the Iewes a pleasure Act. 25.9 thou demand of me Whither I will goe vp to Ierusalem and there bee iudged of these things before thee I must roundly and peremptorily answer thee with S. Paul V. 10.11 I stand at Caesars barre where I ought to be iudged to the Iewes I haue done no wrong neither may any man deliuer me vnto them I appeale vnto Caesar But if with the same Festus better aduised by his Counsell V. 12. thou say vnto me as hee did vnto Paul Hast thou appealed vnto Caesar Vnto Caesar shalt thou goe then looke what definitiue sentence soeuer thou shalt giue according to Caesars law I meane the sacred Scriptures I shall as becommeth a subiect of the Kingdome humbly submit my selfe vnto it and without further prouocation or appeale quietly and peaceably rest in it In the meane season I conclude with that holy and deuout prayer of Fulgentius beseeching the God of all truth De Praedest to Mon. l. 1. that by his preuenting and pursuing mercy whatsoeuer truths we know which sauingly are to bee knowne he would teach vs in those which already we know to be true hee would keepe vs wherein as men we faile and are deceiued he would correct vs in what truths we doubt of hee would confirme vs and from false and pernicious errors he would deliuer vs Eph. 4.13 that so at length wee may all meet as the Apostle speaketh in the vnity of Faith and knowledge of the Son of God vnto a perfect man euen to the measure of the age of the fulnesse of Christ Amen A TREATISE OF THE TRVE NATVRE AND DEFINITION of justifying faith IF it be true which Tertullian sayth that euen in the very smallest matters regard is to bee had of Truth surely in those weighty profound mysteries of Religion wherein errour doth so much hazard soule and saluation nothing ought more carefully to be respected then the search and finding out of Truth For as the same Father sayth Apol. aduer Gen. c. 46. Although Philosophers Player-like affect the truth as being ambitious of glory yet Christians studiously follow it as being carefull of their Saluation Now among
question bee indeed as they seeme vnto me sound and necessary you may as well chide the Sun for mouing towards the west or the earth for resting stedfastly on her center as me for being swayed and perswaded by them And yet by your leaue I was not so transported with Confidence but that I still kept my selfe within the bounds of Modesty For although it pelase you in the former section to charge me with â—oasting that scarce Archimedes could better and more liuely haue painted his Theoremes then I iustifying Faith yet was I in truth as farre from it as you are from truth in affirming of it submitting my selfe in all humility vnto the censure of Gods Church and promising vpon conuiction of my error to reuerse what euer I had said Yea but very insolently I haue bidden battell to all the learned men of Christendome bitten snapt and snarled at Melancthon Martyr c. yea all Fathers and Writers both old and new for these 1600. yeeres 1 Sam. 17.26 Intolerable arrogance I confesse if your accusation be iust for who but a presumptuous and proud Goliah would in such opprobrious manner defie and reuile the host of the liuing God But tell me I beseech you what are those despitefull and contumelious tearmes wherewith I haue so reproched those famous and excellent men Nay did I in my Sermon so much as name either Melancthon or Martyr or Caluin or Beza or Grynaus or Pelanus or Whitaker or Perkins whom yet you say I snapt and snarled at For that you adde particularly of M. Perkins as if I had boasted by my sudden arguments to haue driuen him so hard to the wall as hee knew not what to answer is but a blacke drop of your slanderous pen. The truth is this that in a priuate conference I told you that he being demaÌ„ded if Faith be an assurance of our present state in grace and future saluation what comfort remained for him who not feeling this assurance thinks himselfe to bee without Faith and consequently in the state of damnation his answer was which also in his books he hath published that desire of assurance is in the acceptation of God as assurance indeed to the which I sayd I could no way yeeld seeing by the couenant of Grace actuall Faith it selfe is absolutely required vnto Iustification and therefore actuall assurance if Faith bee assurance Besides this priuate speech all I haue publikely said or written is no more but this in generall that though my opinion differ from the writings and doctrine of most learned and worthy Diuines to whom as farre inferiour I owe all respect and reuerence yet being Gods freeman I cannot endure to bee mans Bondman and sweare to all they say And is not this the same in effect which all our Diuines answer when they are charged by the aduersary to dissent from the Fathers Let one Whitaker speake for them all We are saith he not the seruants but the Sons of the Fathers Contrà Duraeum if out of the law and from diuine authority they prescribe any thing vnto vs wee obey them as Parents if they command ought against the voice of the heauenly doctrine wee say wee must harken not vnto them but God You Iesuits like bondmen and base slaues admit without iudgement and reason all the sayings of the Fathers fearing I thinke the gibbet or whip if yee refuse any Now M. Baxter say if you dare that glorious Whitaker with the rest of our Diuines bite and snap and snarle at the Fathers as well as I if you dare not and yet I vse no other language then they doe then are biting and snapping and snarling but your owne doggish tearmes arguing rather notorious Sycophancie in you then such barbarous inciuility in me Well yet sith you will needs say you come barefoot to these mountaines giue me leaâ—e to sift your arguments and to shape you an answer for the defence of Iustifying Faith Exod. 3.5 Sir it was reason I should pull off my shooes and come barefoot to these mountaines because the ground on which I was to stand is holy Neuerthelesse in this encounter with you I trust you shall find my feet so well shâ—â— with the preparation of the Gospell of peace Ephes 6.15 that I need not care what briers or thornes soeuer you plant in my way And therefore good leaue haue you sift my arguments in Gods name at your pleasure for to that very end sent I them you in writing But I am afraid least insteed of sifting I find from you nothing else but meere shifting as indeed I doe not For to some of my arguments you shape no answer at all some you unshape and turne cleane out of the forme I set vpon them to not one of them doe you shape so much as probable or tolerable answer So that although you seeme very ambitious and greedie of the title yet if you haue no better skill in sifting arguments and shaping answers you will hardly obtaine so high an honor as to bee stiled Defender of the Faith Further you tell me that shortly I shall receiue the writings of other most learned men and grasple with them They shall bee welcome M. Baxter whensoeuer they come for the more you are that impugne the truth the more honorable will the victory be But I beseech you Sir when will that shortly you speake of be expired for it is now more then two yeeres since you first threatned me with them as by the date of your writing appeareth and yet hitherto could I neuer heare either from them or of them whether they be white or blacke Only it seemes they are very angrie Pismires that a man cannot spit among them without sore lips But when I shall speake with these enemies in the gate as the Psalmist saith I hope they shall finde my lips so seasoned with the salt of grace and so well prouided of an answer Psal 127.5 Col. 4.6 that I need not feare if they proue a nest I say not of Ants onely but euen of Waspes and Hornets also In the meane season if they bee so deeply learned as you pretend how is it that you so hastily preuent them and haue not the manners to stay till your betters haue spoken It is not you say vpon presumption of your greater learning being one of the least but out of a greater measure of zeale as being the most offended But M. Baxter they that doe the works of Zimri haue not lightly in them the affection of Phinees And seeing you will needs bee the most offended shall I say being the most offending Certainly hauing no iust cause of offence giuen you it is not so much either the glory of God or the satisfaction of your people as your own factiousnesse and vaineglory that sets you so forward in this busines and makes you so impatient to thinke of the second place Of a colder temper it seemes are those learned Rabbies you scarre me
things Hence the ancient Fathers inuented the word Trinity to signify the plurality of persons in one substance Homousios to expresse the consubstantiality of the Sonne with the Father Theotokos to maintaine the personall vnion of both natures in Christ and six hundred such like words vtterly vnknown vnto former ages Ibid. old matters as the same Athanasius saith Cap. 18. receiuing new names those new names couching vnder them no new meaning According whereunto Vincentius Lirinensis though he would not haue his Timothie to broach new things yet giueth him leaue to teach the same things he hath learned after a new manner Being therfore warrāted both by the precept practice of the Primitiue Church I see no cause but that euen in this point also I may be permitted to vse new tearmes Perhaps you will say that not only the tearme wherewith it is inuested but the matter hereof is also new for so much your questions out of Hierome and Tertullian and the floud of words following with not a drop of reason in them seeme to import Whereunto though I haue already sufficiently answered yet now I adde by way of surplus that many Truths lye a long time hidden in their principles and vnheeded of the wisest which being at length disclosed and brought to light are not therefore new in themselues but onely vnto vs comming newly vnto our knowledge euen as the countrey of America is called the new world not because it is of a latter creation then Europe Asia or Africa but only because it is of a later discouery These Conclusions vntill their dependency and coherence with the principles doe manifestly appeare vnto vs it sufficeth to beleeue them implicitly and in the preparation of the Minde but when they shall bee vnfolded out of their principles and clearly demonstrated vnto vs by necessary deduction from them we are bound to yeeld distinct and expresse assent vnto them And then as it would haue been great folly in the Spaniard to haue refused the gold and treasures of the new world because it was found out not by the old Argonauts but by Christopher Columbus a late sailer so would it bee great sinne in vs to disclaime and renounce the benefit of a truth because it is made known vnto vs not by an ancient Father but by a man of yesterday or to day Iam. 2.1 For this were to haue the faith of God in respect of persons as S. Iames saith and to restraine the gift of the Spirit of Wisdome and reuelation vnto the times of our predecessors as if they only had eyes giuen them to spie out truths and it were impossible for vs to see what they saw not although wee caried the Sunne in our hands as Lactantius speaketh Now then to apply this vnto the matter in hand if the point you quarell at bee not onely new vnto the present custome De Ciuit. Dei lib. 22. c. 7. as S. Augustin speaketh but also contrary vnto reason and the grounds of Faith I confesse it is erronious and iustly may you come vpon mee with your demaunds out of Hierome and Tertullian Ep. 23. ad Paulin. De veland virg cap. 1. who are you whence when that after 400. yeeres you should goe about to teach vs what wee knew not before But if it bee new only vnto vs and not in it selfe then doe I answer your Hierome with Hierome Weigh not truth by time and Tertullian with Tertullian Nor space of times nor patronage of persons nor priuiledge of places may prescribe against truth For that which is no otherwise new is true and as the truth of God is with all reuerence and submission to bee embraced Howbeit this I say not as if I would be thought to bee the first discouerer hereof or that it had laine hid as it were in the pit of Democritus vntill this time For that there is a Faith whose obiect is the Person of the Mediator was neuer yet vnknowne in the Church but hath euer beene manifest euen from the beginning Search the Scriptures and you shall find therein nothing more cleere then this For as in the treatise sent you I haue shewed the whole tenor of them runs thus Hee that beleeueth in mee shall not perish Ioh. 3.16 Ioh. 14.1 Ioh. 1.12 yee beleeue in God beleeue also in mee As many as receiued him to them hee gaue power to bee the Sonnes of God that is to them that beleeue in him c. Rom. 3.22.26 Gal. 2.16.3.22 Phil. 3.9 Iam. 2.1 Reu. 2.13.14.12 Whereunto I adde that in sundry places it is expresly called the Faith of Iesus Christ not because it inhereth in Christ as in a Subiect but for that it hath relation and respect vnto Christ as vnto the right Obiect And that at length it appeareth both that the matter is euery way old though the tearme bee new and that new tearmes may bee giuen to old matters euen of this kind so as they bee proper determined and adequated thereunto It remaineth onely to shew that such is the tearme which here I vse For proofe whereof I say no more but this that if our best Diuines haue conueniently distinguished other Faiths according to their obiects calling one Faith of story because Scripture story another Faith of Promise because the Euangelicall promise a third Faith of Miracles because miracles are the proper obiect of them I see no reason why I may not as freely and as fitly call that Faith of Person which hath for its Obiect the Person of Iesus Christ Neither can I conceiue if this bee an inkhorne tearme as it pleaseth your elegancy to tearme it why Faith of Story Faith of Promise Faith of Miracles should not bee inkhorne-tearmes also But you are a very nice and dainty man you can tast no wine how old or generous soeuer vnlesse the cup out of which you drinke it bee grauen by Myron or Polycletus N. B. But this hath beene the course of all fanaticall spirits in all ages moued with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Phil 1.14 selfe-loue contention hypocrisie and couetousnesse De Haeresibus ad Quodvult Deum to condemne all others to set vp and stablish their owne fantasies Read Augustine yea see the Ecclesiasticall histories Eusebius Sozomen Euagrius Dorotheus Vincentius c. there shall you see whereupon these Schismes in the Church began Let mee therefore intreate you if you will needs deale in these graue causes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet that you will deale also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 well as becommeth a wise man For otherwise you shall bewray your mind desirous of nouelties hazard your credit offend the Church yea as hee saith take vpon you to glew an egge Diogenianus loosing your labour and making your selfe ridiculous to the best I. D. What hath beene the course of fanaticall spirits in all ages and whereupon they haue been moued to beginne their Schismes in the Church I am not now to learne
it seemeth strange why you should take it as confessed For sure I am in expresse tearmes I haue affirmed the contrary neither can I guesse of what words you gather it vnlesse perhaps of that I say and specially the Gospell which were too ridiculous For that indeed confesseth the Gospell to bee a speciall part of Gods truth but not determining Faith onely thereunto it doth in no sort specifie it as is aboue fully proued N. B. Historicall Faith not diuided from the other two kinds but ioyned with thē is cause of Iustification Againe I would pray you to speake more learnedly and argue soundly For if you had said formerly No Historicall Faith only iustifieth c. We had been agreed For Historica Fides est causa iustificationis non solitaria sed socia non diuisa sed coniuncta But speaking thus absolutely you speake vnlearnedly Well thus you proceed leauing your Minor naked and exposed to the mercie of the World I. D Agreed quoth you Nay hee can hardly agree with mee that is at warre with himselfe and had I spoken neuer so learnedly and argued neuer so soundly yet I verily belieue you would haue quarrelled at it because I see you make contradiction of mee the onely rule of your speeches That there is but one Faith you say it is nouelty not to grant and that Faith only iustifies I think you dare not deny how is it then that in the margent forgetting your selfe you talke of three kinds of Faith which except my Arithmetike faile mee are more then one and ioyne fellowes with that in iustification in the body of your text which yet you confesse doth onely iustify But what is it that comes not within the sphere of your omnipotent Philosophie The power of your Logicke hath already contracted Vniuersall into Speciall and why then may not the subtlety of your Metaphysicke find a plurality also in an Vnity But to be plaine with you I say that Historicall Faith is so far from being a ioint cause that at all properly vnderstood of Iustification but onely as I haue said a Pre-requisite or Preparatiue thereunto True it is that Faith of Person is neuer Solitary but is euer conioyned with sundry other graces and among the rest with Historicall Faith yet are not their operations to bee confounded because in the same person they are conioyned Many seeds lye in my hand together yet euery one hath his seuerall and distinct vertue Faith of Person is neuer without Faith of Story yet it is Faith of Person which onely iustifies And as in the generation of man the Sensitiue soule goes before and prepares a fit organ for the infusion of the Reasonable and yet not the Sensitiue but the Reasonable only doth informe so in the reparation of man Faith of Story proceeds and makes way for the inducement of Faith of Person and yet not Faith of Story but Faith of Person only doth iustifie Now whether in speaking thus absolutely I haue spoken vnlearnedly as you say or no it skilleth not much seeing I am sure I haue spoken truly 1 Cor. 15.9 What euer I am by the grace of God I am and desire so to bee vnto his glory My want and inability I thanke God I know yet know I no cause why in this mediocrity of knowledge and speech I should in comparison with you any whit disable my selfe But sith as the Apostle saith knowledge puffeth vp 1 Cor. 8.1 God grant vs both the spirit of humility that denying our selues and all our learning wee may be content to bee wholly captiuated vnto the obedience of the Faith of Christ The Minor which you say I left naked and exposed to the mercy of the world was this that Historicall Faith is a generall knowledge which indeed in my Treatise I did forbeare to confirme not for want of sufficient proofes but presuming that so euident a truth would neuer haue beene denied But now I hope it appeares by what I haue aboue said to bee so well guarded with strength of reason and approbation of the learned that henceforward it need not feare the rigor of your opposition Treatise Acquisite Faith the Diuels haue according to that of Saint Iames The Diuels belieue and tremble Infused Faith the Reprobates may haue as Balaam Iudas Magus Now iustifying Faith is proper to the Elect and therefore historicall Faith cannot iustifie N. B. O yee noble Schollers marke this Syllogisme I haue made your arguments hitherto for you Master Downe and in this creeping and incroching argument tell you that you beg the matter in question For I deny that your definition of Historicall Faith is a generall knowledge but speciall and peculiar vnto the Elect in the beginning of their iustifying Faith conioyned with the Application and Resting vpon Christ and his merits And to bee plaine with you I tell you it is ridiculous yea blasphemous to say that Diuels haue Faith or that euer Balaam Iudas or Magus had Faith And so telleth you M. Caluin In Iac. 2.19 Ridiculum erit si quis Diabolos habere fidem dicat it is ridiculous for any man to say that Diuels haue Faith For there is but one Faith Eph. 4. and the other is spoken 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 abusiuely and by an equiuocation and is but a vulgar knowledge or rather peculiar shew by miracles c. as the same M. Caluin sheweth right learnedly 1 Cor. 13.2 Calu. ibid. and also telleth you Abundé constat totam hanc disputationem de fide non haberi it is plaine that this whole disputation Iam. 2. is not about Faith Let this therefore serue for an answer I pray you to your first distinction of Historicall Faith which you confound with a vulgar knowledge as appeareth before knowing this No man that finally contemneth this Speciall knowledge of Gods Word and specially the Gospell can be saued For hee can neuer haue the other two kinds of Faith spoken of before except he begin with this kind of Faith I. D. Surely I am very deeply beholding vnto your Mastership hauing so small skill in Logicke that you will bee pleased to forme my arguments and to shape them in so excellent fashion for mee But I beseech you spare your paines where you are like to reape little thanks for your labour Such officiousnesse in an aduersary is not without suspicion and if you may haue the hammering of my arguments your weakest answers I doubt not will be proofe inough against them Leaue me therfore I pray you to the meaning of my own weapons and looke you well vnto your owne defence for I feare mee you will hardly bee able to auoid the danger of them For thus I reason That Faith which Diuels and Reprobates haue iustifies not Historicall Faith Diuels and Reprobates haue Ergo Historicall Faith iustifies not Here you see nor creeping nor incroching but faire and plaine dealing and such as I am well content all noble Schollers marke it But let
vs see what you reioyne hereunto First you say I beg the matter in Question What matter that Historicall Faith is a generall knowledge but neither is that the matter now in Question neither doe I any way beg it For in this Syllogisme the Question is whether Historicall Faith doe iustify of your Question there appeares nor palme nor footstep which yet in the former section against your negatiue I haue proued to bee most true That which you adde if it bee not senselesse is contrary both to your selfe and vnto reason For saying that Historicall Faith is proper and speciall vnto the Elect in the beginning of their iustifying Faith you plainely distinguish it from iustifying Faith which is contrary to what you haue elsewhere said If you still confound them and make Historicall Faith the beginning of Iustifying Faith it is as if you should say the beginning of iustifying Faith is speciall and peculiar vnto the Elect in the beginning of their iustifying Faith which is altogether witlesse and senselesse Lastly to say that Historicall Faith which before was Generall and common as soone as it is conioyned with application and Resting on Christ becomes speciall and peculiar is vtterly void of reason For as Grace superadded vnto Nature in the Elect makes not Nature speciall and peculiar vnto them but that still it remaines common vnto all men so also Historicall Faith by accession of Iustifying Faith or Affiance changeth not its nature and becomes Speciall but as it was euermore continues Generall Generall I say both Obiectiuely as stretching it selfe vnto all supernaturall reuealed verities and Subiectiuely not being appropriated vnto the Elect onely but commonly incident vnto others also Secondly you deny the Minor telling mee plainely that it is ridiculous yea blasphemous to say that Diuels haue Faith or that euer Balaam Iudas or Magus had Faith If I should now temper my inke with some sharper ingredient and in the zeale of my affection say vnto you as the Angell sometime said vnto Satan Iude 9. The Lord rebuke thee it were no more then here you iustly deserue For it is not holy and learned men alone which yet were too impudent but euen the spirit of Wisdome and truth himselfe whom I tremble to speake it you charge with ridiculousnes and blasphemie For doth not the Holy Ghost by Saint Iames in expresse tearmes say The Diuels belieue and tremble and by Saint Luke Then Simon himselfe also belieued Iam. 2.19 Act. 8.13 and did not Balaam prophecying of Christ and Iudas preaching Christ assent vnto those truths wherewith they were illuminated And what Orthodoxe Diuine is there ancient or moderne who falling vpon this question doth not acknowledge that Diuels and Reprobates doe Historically belieue De vnico Bapt. cont Petil. c. 10. Saint Augustine is bold and compareth the Faith of Diuels confessing Christ Wee know thee who thou art euen the Sonne of God with that memorable confession of Peter Thou art the Christ the Sonne of the liuing God This confession saith hee was fruitfull vnto Peter but pernicious vnto the Diuels yet in both not false but true not to bee denied but acknowledged not to bee detested but approued And a little after hauing vouched that of Saint Iames the Diuels belieue and tremble and compared therewith the Faith of those who belieue the truth of God but liue wickedly Behold saith hee Wee haue found out of the Church not onely certaine men but Diuels also confessing the same Faith of one God yet both confirmed by the Apostles rather then denied Of the same iudgement are our latter writers That Faith is attributed to Simon Magus Inst lib. 3. ca. 2. §. 10. saith Caluin We vnderstand not with some that hee fained in words a Faith which was not in his heart but thinke rather that being ouercome by the Maiesty of the Gospell hee did in a sort belieue and acknowledge Christ to be the Author of Life and Saluation Simon saith Beza In Act. 8.13 On the Creed Ans to Rhem. T. in Iam. 2.6 belieued with Historicall Faith Historicall Faith saith Perkins is in the Diuell and his Angels Such a Faith saith Fulke as is in Diuels namely an acknowledging that there is one God and so likewise of all the rest of the Articles of Faith to bee true without trust or confidence in God Finally the whole Church of Auspurg Whereas Saint Iames saith Harm Confess the Diuels belieue and tremble hee speaketh of an Historicall Faith Now this Faith doth not iustifie for the Diuels and the wicked are cunning in the History Which last words I would wish you to note and obserue For if Historicall Faith bee no other then an assent of the Mind vnto the truth of Gods Word then Diuels and Reprobates so assenting yea being cunning in the Story must needs haue Historicall Faith Adde hereunto that if they doe not so much as Historically belieue then the sinnes which they commit against the Gospell are onely sinnes of ignorance and not against knowledge neither can they offend of malice or fall into that vnpardonable sinne which is against the Holy Ghost Mat. 12.32 Neither lastly can any bee said to haue made shipwracke of Faith which yet the Scripture saith some haue done 1 Tim. 1.19 vnlesse perhaps you will say a man may make shipwracke of that which hee neuer had So that now if I haue spoken ridiculously and blasphemously as you say you see what Schoolemasters haue deceiued me and vpon what reasons I haue been drawne into this folly and impiety or rather the world sees what folly it is in you thus against all reason to impute blasphemy and ridiculousnesse vnto the truth of God and the most glorious preachers and defenders thereof Yet Caluin you say telleth mee it is ridiculous to say that Diuels haue Faith and it is plaine that this whole disputation Iam. 2. is not about Faith But is it possible that Caluin should striue against the torrent of so maine authority or like the Philosopher of whom Aristotle speaketh forget his owne voice and vnsay that which he had formerly said Certainly if you wil giue him leaue to bee the interpreter of his owne meaning you shall find hee doth not For when hee denieth that Diuels haue Faith and that Saint Iames there disputeth of Faith hee vnderstandeth not Faith indefinitely but particularly iustifying Faith This is euident by his annotation on the twentieth verse In Iam. 2.20 Here saith hee is no disputation of the cause of Iustification whereby what other can hee meane then Iustifying Faith And when hee saith the dispute is not about Faith hee addeth forthwith but of a vulgar knowledge which conioyneth a man to God no more then the sight of the Sunne lifts him to Heauen Now what is that Faith which vnites vs vnto God but onely Iustifying Faith and what is this vulgar knowledge other then Historicall Faith by which the eye of the mind sees diuine truth
is conditionall you denyed in your answer to the former argument now also you deny that Belieuing is commanded Whereby you bewray how inexpert you are in the Word of righteousnesse as the Apostle speaketh and that whereas by office you are Heb. 5.12 13. and concerning the time ought to be a teacher yet haue you need your selfe to be taught the very elements of the Christian Religion That therefore the Promise is conditionall I haue in the due place demonstrated now that Belieuing is commanded remaineth to bee poued or rather it is already proued thus No condemnation but for breach of a Commandement Condemnation for vnbeliefe for for vnbeliefe the world shall bee condemned Ergo Beliefe commanded But this reason according to your wont you cunningly suppresse and hauing found out a new Art of disputation thinke it enough to scorne the premisses and with a bold face to deny the Conclusion Yet for your further confusion vnto necessary consequence I adde the expresse words of Scripture This saith Iohn is his commandement that wee belieue in the Name of his Sonne Iesus Christ 1 Ioh. 3.23 And vnto diuine authority I adde the humble consent of holy men of God Beza expoundeth that place of Saint Iohns Gospell Ioh. 6.29 This is the worke of God that yee belieue in me De gra vniuer De Praedest gratia on this wise This is that which God requireth of you that yee belieue in me The Lord commandeth saith Hemingius that we belieue Together with the Promise saith Master Perkins is conioined the Exhortation or Commandement to Belieue which is more generall then the Promise because the promise belongs only to Belieuers but the Cōmandement both to Belieuers vnbelieuers Harm Conf. Sax. of remission of sins iustif Finally the whole Church of Saxony thus confesseth It is the eternall immutable commandment of God that we should belieue in the Son of God according to this saying which is my very ground the Spirit shall conuince the world of sinne because they Belieue not in mee Nay see the lucke of it that which here you affirme to be an vntruth not many lines before you haue auowed to bee a truth saying God commandeth all to Belieue and therefore the Reprobates Yea doe you not in this place vnsay that which you say saying it is vntrue that God commandeth when hee biddeth a Reprobate to Belieue For hee that Biddeth in my vnderstanding commandeth vnlesse you that complaine of nice and subtle Distinctions in others haue learned of late by some new-found nicetie to distinguish there where the letters and syllables onely differing there is otherwise an identie of nature and definition A man would wonder how you could so soone forget your selfe but that it is commonly seene a liar hath seldome or neuer a good memory But to proue that God commands not a Reprobate to belieue you come vpon mee with a most mighty and insoluble Enthymem What is that I beseech you Marie this A Reprobate if he could belieue he should then without doubt bee saued Ergo God doth not command him to Belieue A desperate Demonstration I promise you for by the same reason you may conclude that God commands him not to obey the Precepts of the Morall law neither Because if hee could keepe them he should bee saued What you conceiue may bee the knot and sowlder as it were of this Consequence I cannot well imagine vnlesse it be one of two either this God promiseth the Reprobate hee shall bee saued if hee Belieue Ergo hee commandeth him not to Belieue or this The Reprobate cannot belieue Ergo God commandeth him not to Belieue for your words seeme to bee indifferent either way If you intend the former first you contradict your owne selfe for in your answer to the former argument you deny Iustification and Saluation to bee promised vpon condition of Faith Secondly euery Catechumenus and Nouice in Diuinity knowes that God vnto Commandement vsually annexeth Promise to draw on Obedience as in the Couenant of works first hee Commandeth Doe this and then Promiseth if thou doe it thou shalt liue and in the Couenant of Grace also first hee Commandeth Belieue and then addeth the Promise if thou belieue thou shalt bee saued So that Promise and Commandement exclude not one the other neither doth it follow Faith is the condition of a Promise Ergo it is not commanded If you vnderstand the latter then know that as Augustin and Barnard and all Diuines not infected with Pelagianisme say God commandeth some things which man cannot doe to the end that knowing his owne insufficiency hee may craue of him the helpe of grace that hee may doe them And if God doe command any supernaturall action vnto the Reprobate as without doubt hee doth then doth hee also command some thing aboue his power for being meerely naturall he cannot produce any supernaturall operation Whereupon it followeth euidently that although a Reprobate cannot belieue yet neuerthelesse hee may bee commanded to Belieue Well yet you will proue that a Reprobate cannot Belieue To what end for it is not denied and you should rather strengthen your Consequence and proue that therefore Faith is not commanded Notwithstanding let vs heare your reason for it seemeth to bee very remarkable That hee cannot Belieue say you the reason is Christ hath not washed him If you had said as followeth Christ hath not opened his heart to Belieue or it is to bee imputed to the hardnes of his owne heart and had stopt there I should easily haue yeelded vnto you but now that you say the reason is because Christ hath not washed him I must needs tell you it is vnreasonable reason for it implies that wee are first washed and then Belieue whereas both Scripture and the analogie of Faith teach vs that we first belieue and then afterward are washed Search the booke of God Rom. 3.28 Act. 15.9 Rom. 3.25 and there shall you read that wee are iustified by Faith that the heart is purified by Faith that God hath set forth Iesus Christ to bee a reconciliation through Faith in his Blood Which Blood although it haue in it sufficient vertue and force to cleanse vs from the leprosie of all our sinnes yet doth it not actually wash or purge any vnlesse it bee particularly applied and accepted by Faith Otherwise as Ambrose excellently speaketh if thou belieue not Christ descended not for thee Christ suffered not for thee De fide ad Gratian. Wherby it manifestly appeareth that Remission of sinnes is an effect or consequence of Faith and that therefore the reason of the Reprobates vnbeliefe is not because Christ hath not washt him but rather the reason why Christ hath not washed him is because hee doth not belieue nor hath by Faith applyed the blood of Christ to himselfe for the remission of his sinnes Where you adde negatiuely that the Reprobates vnbeliefe is not to bee imputed to the falsity
reproued in him bee faulty and erronious and that also hee bee guilty thereof For they that thinke themselues to bee in health will hardly be drawne to take Physicke In Pastore and then shall we better correct them that are wayward saith Gregory when those things which they belieue to bee well done wee demonstrate to bee euill Whereas therefore it pleaseth you here in the conclusion and closing vp of your Answer to charge mee with a most Vnpeaceable and Vncharitable disposition praying God it may worke in me a willing mind to embrace peace and brotherly loue you may not thinke that this can any way affect or moue mee vnlesse first you shew that I am guilty of this crime and beare a mind so auerse and abhorring from Peace and Charity as you pretend which I am sure hitherto you neither haue done nor can doe For though you haue carefully searched euery corner of my Treatise and ransackt euery letter and syllable thereof with as much greedinesse as euer Laban did Iacobs stuffe to find his Idols therein Gen. 31.33 yet haue you not found any thing sauouring other then of Peace and Loue or if you haue why doe you not as Iacob said vnto his Vncle put it here before your brethren my brethren Vers 37. that they may iudge betweene vs both You will say perhaps that in broaching this erronious doctrine touching the Definition of Faith I plainely bewrayed a seditious spirit and that I intended the interruption of Peace and dissolution of loue But neither is it necessary that whosoeuer deliuereth an error should presently haue such a seditious intention for then what writer almost either ancient or late but is guilty of that impiety Neither is the doctrine errronious but sound and good and now plentifully proued so to bee by this Defence thereof against your Answer So that this accusation of yours is altogether vniust and grounded vpon no truth at all Suppose neuerthelesse it were iust and that you had found your Idols I meane both Falshood and Faction in my writing is it possible thinke you that such an Answer as this is either of it selfe or sanctified by your Prayer may be effectuall to reclaime mee from mine errour or to worke mee vnto a more peaceable mind Certainly it is impossible For what is it of it selfe other then a fardle of vanities And what promise haue you in Gods word that vpon your prayer you shall bee able to open the eyes of the blind by dawbing them ouer with clay or to still the raging of the sea by sending forth more stormes and tempests vpon it And that such is your Answer and such the course you haue taken therein although this Defence haue already made it as cleere as the noone-day yet must I intreat your patience before I dismisse you in a word or two to trauerse it ouer againe and in a briefe Synopsis as it were to set before you the very spirit and quintessence thereof that if it be possible you may see your nakednesse Gen. 3.10 and be ashamed First it is your manner like the Schollers of Theodorus to receiue with the left hand that which I offer with the right that is to wrest and peruert my plainest words Plutarch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and to make them speake not that which I intend but what you conceiue is fittest for you to descant vpon For example where I say I will not speake of the notation or diuerse acceptions of the word Faith you turne it another way saying I refuse and accuse and find fault with them Againe where I argue thus It is very probable that many are saued without Assurance because our brethren of Germany hold a man cannot bee assured of Saluation you make me reason thus Whatsoeuer our brethren of Germany hold is true And againe where I affirme that the Saint of God both may bee assured and ought to bee assured you report mee to say that hee ought to have it as of necessity to saluation And yet againe where I say God should command a reprobate to believe an vntruth if hee command him to belieue that hee shall bee saued you relate it as if I had sayd God should command a reprobate to belieue an vntruth if hee command him to belieue and hee shall bee saued These and sundry other sentences in like sort doe you misconster and wilfully depraue vnlesse perhaps your ignorance bee so grosse and palpable that you could not picke the right sense out of the plainest tearmes that possibly could bee vsed But nothing is well spoken Terent. Pigh Hierar lib. 3. cap. 3. saith the Poet which by ill relating a Sycophant may not peruert and if some bee growne to that height of impiety as to make holy writ it selfe a nose of waxe and to vary the sence thereof according to the alteration and change of time I may not thinke it much if the speeches of so meane a one as I am be as hardly vsed and feele the racke of sinister interpretation also Onely as Diogenes being informed that some derided him Plutarch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they deride not mee quoth hee so say I while you oppose your selfe not vnto the meaning naturally bred in my words but vnto a forraine sense by you brought vnto them you strike not mee but your owne fancies and like a distracted Aiax fall a murthering of poore cattell insteed of Vlysses and his companions Secondly it is your guise vpon euery small occasion and sometime none at all to shake hands and bid farewell vnto the matter in question and to runne out into many idle and impertinent discourses before you returne to it againe In arte Poet. Not much vnlike the foolish Poet in Horace who professing to sing the fortune of Priamus and the famous warre of Troy by and by spends all his art and skill in describing the groue and altar of Diana or of some Crystall riuer hastning about the pleasant and delightfull medowes Of this sort is that purple patch in answer to my first argument where you spend a whole side of paper to proue that which I neuer denied That Faith can neither finally nor totally fall away and tedious collation you make vpon that of Matthew Sonne bee of good comfort thy sinnes bee forgiuen thee a place which I neuer alledged so much as in my dreame and finally that vnnecessary excursion into the common place of Election and Reprobation and Gods absolute will which makes no more to the answering of my fift argument then an axe to the opening of a locke or a key to the cleauing of wood as it is in the Prouerbe These extrauagances and outtopes seeme to mee very strong presumptions that though you could say but little to the purpose Epist yet your itching tongue had rather talke idly then say nothing But a wise man as Hierome saith before hee speaketh considereth many things not onely what but also when
man would much more will God performe his Word and Couenant although the seale be not set thereunto But if it may bee had there is Necessitas praecepti a necessity laid by Gods commandement vpon all those that are Filij praecepti the Sonnes of the commandement Those Sonnes all men are when they are grown to be Adulti and therefore if then they neglect to be baptized they deserue for their contempt to bee cut off and to bee eternally condemned But Infants while such are none of these Sonnes as being both vncapable of the precept and vnable to offer themselues vnto the Sacrament whence followeth that the commandement taketh hold onely of the Parents and those that haue the care of them So that although the Child dying vnbaptized may bee free from danger yet those that neglect to present him vnto Baptisme shall bee damned for breach of Gods commandement Leâ— Parents therefore by all meanes bee carefull to performe this duty and if by reason of weakenesse or some other impediment it cannot bee done publickely rather then left vndone let it bee done priuatly Wise men and amongst the rest M. Caluin would haue it so yea the Church of England requireth it prescribing a forme of Priuate Baptisme in case of necessity and commanding that what is priuatly done be by the Minister publickely made knowne in the Congregation An order heretofore too much neglected God grant henceforward it may be better obserued Finally and lastly seeing euery one that is Adultus must of necessity haue a Faith of his owne first it is the duty of Parents by all meanes to worke Faith in their Children when they are capable thereof that as they haue beene instruments to traduce Originall sinne vnto them to their perdition so they may againe repaire in them the image of God to their eternall saluation Secondly let euery one looke to himselfe and see that hee haue Faith for it is in vaine to trust to the Faith of another The righteousnesse of Christ indeed is a cloke large enough to couer the sinnes of all men but the Faith of another man is little enough for himselfe I cannot couer my nakednesse with it They were but foolish virgins that said Giue vs of your oile for our lamps are out and fitly were they answered by the wise virgins Wee feare there will not bee enough for vs and you but goe yee rather to them that sell and buy for your selues Let Papists blaspheme and say they can supererogate and more then satisfy for their sinnes and that one man may for a price buy out of the Popes treasury the Surplus of another mans merits yet am I sure the oile of another mans lampe will not serue my turne nor procure mee fauour to enter with the bridegroome God grant me therefore wisdome euen while it is called to day to get mee oile in my owne lampe NOT CONSENT OF FATHERS BVT SCRIPTVRE THE GROVND OF FAITH Written by the occasion of a conference had with Mr. Bayly by the late Reuerend and Learned Diuine Master Iohn Downe Bachelour of Diuinity and sometimes Fellow of Emanuell Colledge in Cambridge OXFORD Printed by IOHN LICHFIELD for EDWARD FORREST Anno Domini M.DC.XXXV NOT CONSENT OF FATHERS BVT SCRIPTVRE THE GROVND OF FAITH LOVING and Reuerend M. Bayly I acknowledge my selfe much endebted vnto you both for my kind entertainment and the peaceable Conference I had with you Would you but vouchsafe to visit my poore Cottage I should readily endeauour to satisfy some part of the debt if not with like entertainment yet with equall welcome The residue I know not how better to discharge then by pursuing my first intention that is by labouring to reduce you backe into the bosome of that Church out of which with such danger to your soule scandall to the brethren and vnkindnesse to her you haue withdrawne your selfe And to this end might I haue obtained from you in writing as at our parting I entreated what those speciall Motiues were which had wrought in you this sudden change I would haue strained my selfe by writing also to haue giuen them the best satisfaction But seeing for reasons best knowne to your selfe and into which I list not further to inquire you held it not fit as then to yeeld so farre vnto mee I haue thought good for the present to reflect vpon some passages of our Conference specially that ground whereon you then stood so much and vpon which you plainely professed that you would aduenture your Faith It may please you therefore to remember that being demaunded a reason of your departure you pretended that in reading the ancient Fathers you had met with sundry Bugbeares which so scared and affrighted you that vnlesse you would resist the light of Conscience and hazard your eternall saluation you could not chuse but bee swayed by them Whereunto it being replied that happily those Bugbeares were but Scarcrowes and that you should haue taken a safer and surer course if you had resolued your Faith into Scriptures nothing being sufficient to beare vp so weighty a peece but onely diuine testimony your answer was that vpon Scripture you relyed howbeit because it is obscure and subiect to manifold constructions vpon Scripture vnderstood according to the interpretation and doctrine of the Fathers nothing doubting but that as long as you held the Faith of them whom wee verily belieue to bee saued your selfe could neuer perish through misbeliefe In which answer howsoeuer in word you seeme to attribute some force and vertue to the Scriptures yet in truth you doe but cancell them and make them of none effect For if the Scriptures lie rather in the Sense then in the Letter and the Sense by reason of the darknesse and ambiguity of them bee not to bee found in themselues but elsewhere out of them in the writings of the Fathers it followeth clearely that in your account Paul and Peter and Iames and Iohn and the other Pen-men of holy writ are no better then Cyphers vnlesse Cyrill and Ambrose and Hierome and Augustin and the rest of that ranke as digit numbers vouchsafe to adde some value and signification vnto them So that now by your fauor this must bee my taske briefly and plainely to demonstrate that hauing remoued your Faith from the authority of Scripture vpon the exposition of the Fathers you haue built quite beside the rocke and layd your foundation vpon the sand But take this protestation first that wee neither disesteeme nor despise the Fathers as by Priests and Iesuites wee are ordinarily slandered but contrarywise with all duty wee rise vp to their gray haires and reuerence their venerable antiquity Withall wee acknowledge that they were in their times excellent ornaments and lights of the Church endued not onely with singular knowledge in the mystery of Faith but also with admirable sanctity and vprightnesse of life Whereby in all their combats and bickerins with Hereticks they maintained the truth of God so wisely and couragiously
that they euer remained more then conquerors And now as they haue left behind them a pretious name among the Saints so wee doubt not but their soules are bound vp in the bundle of life and enioy the blessed making vision of God for euermore Such books of theirs as are come to our hands we esteeme as rich treasures and value them aboue gold Them doe wee search and peruse with all diligence bee it spoken without offence no Papists more Yet can wee not throughout them meet with those terrible Bugbears you so much complain of rather wee wonder how you could misse all those good Angels so frequently appearing in them to comfirme and settle you in your first Faith For I wil bee bold to say notwithstanding all the brags and crakes of that side that the Fathers are ours not yours or if they bee yours in any thing it is in the pettiest and smallest matters for in the maine and great questions controuerted between vs they are expresly for vs and against you as hereafter God willing shall in part appeare Vpon confidence whereof whensoeuer wee were summond and called vnto the Fathers by you wee neuer refused their triall but euer haue beene ready to aduenture all vpon their verdict The chalenge of that famous Prelate Ser. at Pauls Crosse Doctor Iewell Bishop of Salisbury is yet fresh in memory that if any learned man of our aduersaries or if all the learned men that bee aliue be able to bring any one sufficient sentence out of any old Catholicke Doctor or Father or out of any old generall Councell or out of the holy Scriptures of God or any one example of the Primitiue Church whereby it may clearly and plainly be proued that there was any priuate Masse in the whole world at that time for the space of sixe hundred yeares after Christ and so foorth in seuen and twenty seuerall articles hee would bee content to yeeld and to subscribe Reply to Hardings Ans This chalenge as that renowned Bishop in his life-time made good himselfe against his aduersary Master Harding so was it neuer yet retracted by any of vs but hath stoutly beene maintained by sundry succeeding champions Heare one for all That sayth worthy Whitaker Con. Camp tat 5. which Iewell most truly and constantly vttered that day when hee appealed to the antiquity of sixe hundred yeeres and offered vnto you that if you could bring foorth but one sentence cleere and euident out of any Father or Councell he would not refuse to yeeld the victory vnto you the same doe we all professe we all promise the same we will not shrinke from our word Thus you see how wee reiect not the Fathers as you would beare the world in hand but triumph rather in the testimony they giue vs and in our Apologies and Defences alledge them plentifully against you Howbeit neither doe wee nor dare wee make Gods of them or equall them with the holy Apostles as if they were infallible and could not erre Clouen tongues neuer sate vpon them as they did vpon these neither did the Spirit of God so guide and direct their pens but that sometimes they might faile and write amisse Had they had infallibility of iudgement safely might wee build our Faith vpon them but this they vtterly disclaime acknowledging it to bee the peculiar priuiledge of the Apostles And so far are they from making themselues Masters of our Faith that they require vs to iudge and censure of their writings by the Scripture which is the rule of Faith Neither would they haue vs to tie our selues vnto their authority more then they tyed themselues vnto the authority of others but freely to accept or refuse as wee see iust cause Hom. 13. in 2. Cor. I pray and beseech you all saith Chrysostome that leauing this and that mans opinion you will search all these things out of the Scripture In Euseb hist l. 7. c. 24. Let it bee commended saith Dionysius of Alexandria and without enuy assented vnto which is rightly spoken but if any thing bee vnsoundly written let that bee looked into and corrected Epist 62. I know I my selfe saith Hierome esteeme of the Apostles in one sort and of other Writers in another that the first alwayes speake truth and the latter as men doe in some things erre De Trinit l. 3. c. 1. In all my writings saith Saint Augustin I desire not only a godly Reader but also a free corrector yet as I would haue the Reader addicted vnto mee so neither would I haue a corrector addicted to himselfe De lib. arb l. 2. c. 32. And againe I am not bound to the authority of this man meaning Cyprian but I examine his saying by the authority of Scripture and what agreeth therewith I receiue with his commendation what agreeth not by his leaue I refuse And yet againe Epist 111. ad Fortunat. Neither are wee to esteeme the disputations of any men although Catholicke and praise worthy as the Canonicall Scriptures that wee may not sauing the honour which is due to those men dislike and reiect something in their writings if happily wee find them to haue thought otherwise then the truth either by others or our selues through Gods help vnderstood Such am I in the writings of others and such would I haue the vnderstanders of mine to bee Epist 19. ad Hieron Finally I saith the same Saint Augustin confesse vnto your charity that I haue learned to yeeld vnto those books of Scripture alone which now are called Canonicall this reuerence and honor that I most firmely belieue no Author of them to haue erred any thing in writing And if I find any thing in their writings which seemeth contrary to truth I will not sticke to say that either the copie is faulty or the translator apprehended not what is spoken or I vnderstand it not But others I so read that how much soeuer they excell in holynesse and learning I thinke it not therefore true because they thought so but because either by those Canonicall Authors or by probable reason not abhorring from truth they were able to perswade mee Thus the Fathers whose steps if wee tread in and whose counsell if wee follow and not taking vp euery thing vpon trust but examining them by the touchstone of truth I hope wee are rather to bee commended then blamed And reason for neither were the Fathers more then men neither are wee of this age lesse then men And I wonder why we may not iudge of the sayings of those who are but men as well as our selues What haue wee not reasonable soules as well as they are we not endued with the same faculty of vnderstanding and discoursing haue wee not still the same helps both of nature and art which they had Or when they died did the Holy Ghost also giue vp the ghost with them or doth hee deny to assist these latter times with his enlightning grace as hee