brought for we wil ever do grant so much as any man can in truth wish to bee collected out of them But what is all this to the purpose since neither then nor since they do agree with the polluted doctrine of your Sinagoge and the faith which olde Rome spreade or mainetained is no more consonant to this infidelity which our new Rome maintaineth then an apple is like an oyster Which one answere although it cut of al your cavils which you fetch from antiquity in praise of Rome and we frequētly inculcate it vnto you yet because it so biteth you will in no sort remember It is a tricke in Rhetorike but it is withall but a base shift to slippe by that or to seeme to forget that which woundeth to the hart and vtterly destroyeth T. HILL BUt the Protestants per adventure will grant that the true Church flourished in those dayes but not afterwardes vntill this age in which they haue reformed the same yet is it most manifest that it flourished afterwardes even vntill this our time no lesse then it and before if not more for in Saint Gregory his daies it was spreade all over the worlde as appeareth by his Epistles to the Bishops of the East of Afrike Spaine France England Sicily And by Saint Bede in cap. 6. Cantic as also by Saint Bernard who disputing before Rogerim King of Sicily avouched that in those daies the East all the West Fraunce Germany Englande Spaniardes and many barbarous nations obeyed the Bishoppe of Rome G. ABBOT 8. The Protestāts not fearing that you shal gaine any thing by that which is truth wil refuse to yeeld you nothing that is true In the first Church that is while the Apostles lived the spouse of Christ for doctrine was most glorious for some hundreds of yeares afterwards her honor flourished not a little yet so that some pety superstitions began to creepe in heere and there But about six hundred years after Christ shee for the outward face did more more droupe in doctrine f 1. Ioh. 2. 18 Antichrists began to peepe vp in the Apostles time but then they coulde not properly be called the great Antichrist And that which was thē was not so eminently as that the followers of the Apostles did much obserue it being then more troubled with persecution or heretiks then with superstition In processe of time matters grew to a worse state evil opiniōs creeping in at last the maine g 2. Thes. 2. 3 Apostasie followed But in this Apostasie very great declining there were who yeelded not to the time but kept thēselues vnspotted of the world especially for mainest points of salvation And it being thus whē things were at the worst God in this later age hath suffred that truth which was more hidden to illustrate the Christian world again Yea but you wil proue that since the Primitiue Church faith florished more thē before or at the least it was not diminished vntill our time You can do wonders Sir or els your own reason would informe you that nothing beene added til these lare navigations of the Portingales Spaniards Christianity must needs be exceedingly diminished when the Saracens Turks for so long space haue devored so much of Asia Europa Africa as is or hath bin vnder thē You are but a simple man for story weaker for Cosmography or els you would not so improbably talke at randon But any thing serveth your turne Well the faith was in Gregories times over all the worlde How proue you this Forsooth he wrote Epistles to Bishops of Spaine France England Sicely yea of the East of Afrike Ergo the faith was over all the world A young man of the age of sixteene yeares hath by his diligence learned without booke the Epistle to Philemō that to the Colossians yea the book of Ruth and the Prophecy of Aggeus therefore he can say all the Bible by hart This is Logike for the Seminaries but not currant elsewhere VVhat wrote he into Tartaria or India or Manicongo what to Finland or Iseland or a thousand places more And what saith Bede h In Cantic 6. The summe of the citisens of that celestiall countrey doth exceede the measure of our estimation But this is spoken of all the faithfull that are were or ever shall bee in the world As also that following vpon the texte Adole scentularum non est numerus There are saith hee young maidens vvhereof there is no number because there are sound innumerable cōpantes of Christiā people Which within seaven lines after he maketh most evident The vniversall Church which in the same her faithfull members from the beginning even vnto the ending of the vvorld from the rising of the Sunne vnto the setting from the North and the Sea doe praise the name of the Lorde Doth this shew any extraordinary thing in the time of Beda or any flourishing of the Church or more thē that there were faithfull toward al parts of the world Such is that which was brought touching S. i In vita Bernard L◅ 217 Bernard who vpō a great schisme in the Church of Rome betweene Innocentius and the Antipape Petrus Leonis being sent for to compose this strife and to see whether he could winne over to Innocētius Robert the King of Sicely who stood for Peter in his Oration saith that if Peters side were good they who acknowledged Innocentius for Pope should bee in very ill case And these hee nameth Then the Easterne Church shall perish vvhich at that time coulde comprehend no more but those fewe Christians vvhich were vvarring in or about Palestina for the Greeke Churches did not then acknowledge the Popes Iurisdiction the whole West shall perish Fraunce shallperish Germany shall perish the Spanish and English and the Barbarian kingdomes shall be drowned in the bottome of the Sea Where he doth not adde these special countries over and aboue the VVest but signifieth vvhat was meant by that generall name that is to saye Fraunce Germany Spaine and England vvith some inferiour Kingdomes So that now if S. Bernard doe say any thing heere your all the worlde is vvonderfully shrunke in the vvetting So you strive against the streame and the farther you goe the worse you goe T. HILL AND in these daies it is all over Italie all over Spaine and in Fraunce in most partes of Germany in Poleland Boheme besides England Hungary Greece Syria Aethiopia Aegypt in vvhich Landes are many Catholikes and in the newe world it flourisheth mightily in all the foure partes of the world Eastward in the Indies VVestward in America Northward in Iaponia Southward in Brasilia in the vttermost partes of Afrike G. ABBOT 9 AS many as be disposed to knowe the Popes strength harken now to his muster-maister Al Italie commeth first as being neerest the Popes nose then all Spaine is the second legion But how would it be in these lands if your Inquisitours did
vile and odious reportes when in this age wherein God hath afforded more plentifull meanes to discover their falshood they doe dare not only in their sermons or in their secreter whisperings but in their Printed bookes to proclaime abroade concerning vs most false and vngodly calumniations and imputations as that we do teach all loosenes of life and a Weston vbique Libertinisme by this our new Gospel that we b Campian Ration 8. maintaine that al sins are aequal that wee hould it as a Maxime that God is the Author of sinne and whatsoever else it pleaseth M. Campian and his felowes to invent devise touching vs wheeras we vtterly disclaime these the like Positions as execrable vngodly Yea that Mounti-banke whom once before I mentioned hath not blushed to assevere that wee so teach as that by our doctrine c Certaine Articles or forcible Reasons At Anwerp 1600. the Protestantes are bound in conscience never to aske God forgivenesse of their sinnes And that they are bound in conscience to avoide all good workeâ—… As also that we make God the onely cause of sinne And holde that God is vverse then the Devil So shamelesse was this fellow growne that he neither knoweth not careth what he saith And yet many a poore Papist abused and gulled by the Devilâ—… deceiving instrumentes doth swalow such goageons runneth away with these things beeing as verily perswaded of them as that the Gospell is true Such a hand the Seminary Priests have over their disciples that they may not reade our bookes to see whether these obiections be true or no neither may they heare ought to the coÌ„trary Now if they thus vse vs who can speake for ourselves wil any maÌ„marveile that those who professed the verity two or three hundred of yeeres since do tâ—…st of the malignant aspersion of those times 35 The Romanists not withstanding all this which hath beene said do not yet so leave vs but once more farther adde that none of all those which hitherto have bin named or can be named but in some knowne confessed and vndoubted opinions did vary from you and therefore they and you may not bee saide to have beene al of one Church Our Maisters of Rhemes do thinke that this lyeth hardly vpon vs therfore thus vauntingly they vrge that they d In Rom. â—…1 4. will not put the Protestants to prove that there were seaven thousand of their Sect when thâ—…r new Elias Luther began but let them prove that there were seven or any one either theÌ„ or in al ages before him that was in all points of his beleefe VVhat the olde Fathers taught vvee shall have time inough in diverse Chapters heere-after to shewe where by the assistance of GOD wee shall discusse many single pointes of faith but for other of later time it is most easy to manifest that all those whome before I have named did generally for all maine matters teach the same which vvee novve doe teach There is no Papist vvho can truely and vvithout calumniating them or sayning thinges vpon them demonstrate that in causes vvhich touch the substance of faith or the foundation of Christian Religion they did dissent from vs. Hee who will try this let him looke on the Declaration e In M r. Foxes Eccles Histor. of Walther Brute which I before mentioned and let him reade it set downe by himselfe and not reported by other And what did that learned lay-man deliver there which was not the beleefe of Wiclif and the rest of the English professing the Gospell in those times But if there bee in some petty matters yea questions of some reasonable moment difference in opinion betweene them and vs shall vvee not therefore bee of the same Church with them or they with vs Yes verily for otherwise many of the auncient Fathers should not be of the Communion of Saintes or Catholike Congregation with those who came after them and amended their errours For vvas not f Divin Iustir l. 7. 14 Lactantius spotted with the Millenarie infection and g Augustin Epistol 48. Cyprian vvith the matter of Rebaptizing Had not Austen an h Epistol 106. 107. opinion of the necessity of the Eucharist to be administred to children and that Infants being deade without i Epist. 28. Baptisme were not only deprived of the fruition of heavenly ioyes but were damned to the pit of hell and to everlasting torments And what man religiouslie affected will suspect but that although Saint Cyprian and the other Affricane Bishops aslembled in a k Concil Carthag in CypriaÌ„ oper Councel did concerning the new baptizing of those who were already baptized by Heretikes determine cleane contrarie to Cornelius the rest of the Italian Bishops yet they should not be of the same faith in generall and of the same holy Church whereof Cornelius was Saint Austen can thus write concerning Cyprian l De Baptism contra Donatist lib. 1. Whereas that holy man Cyprian thinking otherwise of Baptisme then the matter was vvhich was afterward handled and with most diligent consideration established did remaine in the Catholike vnity both by the plentifulnesse of his charitie a recompence was made and by the sickle of his suffering there vvas a purging m Lib. 〈◊〉 In another place hee saith The authoritie of Cyprian doth not terrifiâ—… meeâ—… but the humilitie of Cyprian doth refresh mee Hee meaneth that if that vvorthy man had lived to have seene more light in that argument or to beholde vvhat the succeeding time had reveiled and concluded in that behalfe hee vvould in greate humilitie and meekenesse of hearte have conformed himselfe and yeelded vnto it VVhich may iustly serve for a true defence of the Waldenses Iohn Wiclif Iohn Hus or any other servant of God who might seeme in matters of small moment to vary from vs. 36 And thus I trust that by this time it appeareth to every one who will not wilfully close his eies stoppe his eares against an appâ—…rant truth that God hath at all times had his children houlding the verity of Christian Religion not approving of the filthie Superstitions sacrilegious Idolatries of the abhominable Antichrist of Rome So that it is a most fonde collection that either the Popish Convocation or Confusion are the right vndoubted spouse of Iesus Christ or els that for a thousand yeeres togither there was no Church in the worlde They doate much vpon themselves and on the opinion of their bewty who in such intolerable deformities doe predicate and magnifie their Synagogue as the vnspotted wife and mystical body of our most blessed Saviour Truth it is that intending to blind the ignorant and to abuse the simple they laboured by all externall pompe and shew to give to their hypocrisy and outward formality a setled opinion of pietie and sanctitie and for that cause there was no corner of the braine of man or rather of men in many ages succeeding togither
manifest that all 〈◊〉 which ever beleeved in Christ were first converted to his 〈◊〉 by such 〈◊〉 either 〈◊〉 precisely sent or 〈◊〉 the least wise had their authority from the 〈◊〉 which lived in the time in which they were conâ—…rted 〈◊〉 thing is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 set dowâ—… in the History of the first convâ—…rsion of every countrey as no Protestâ—… vvere 〈◊〉 â—…ver so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 G. ABBOT 1 TO deale favourably with you and not to answere you as in this place you deserue is there any man of tolerable learning or any whit seene in the Ecclesiasticall story who doeth not heere thinke that you want some body who may not only exagitate you but excoâ—…te you also when as if you were become some Aquaviva or General of the Iesuits you so and aciously giue downe such generall propositions not onely farre from truth but much estraunged from the very shewe and semblance thereof I do lesse pity you because the farther I goe the more I perceiue you to be a sworne servant to Antichrist therfore there is nothing which may advance your masters credit but you aâ—… devoted to him must say it do it But in my very bowels I pity take compassioÌ„ of divers my bewitched couÌ„treymen sily women and young fondlings who receiving from you such stuffe so boldly asse verantly averred haue not the skill to discover you nor the grace to repaire vnto such as may lay open the Ambuscadoes and snares which you haue prepared for them Where there needeth no other proofe to descry this your dealing then to obserue that in this your so potent and puissant challenge you cite not one author you name not one particular you single not out the Pope you point not out the countrey you assigne not the preachers by whom it is done you mention not the time nor yeeld vs any reason wherefore you do say it but only this that you doe say it Wherein you over-lash beyond the most that ever wrote on your side for other assumed somewhat but you throw at all and losing haue nothing to pay The Iesuites whom afterward you commende in this Chapter doe not vse to extenuate their holy Fathers commendation but to set it as high as may be and a Controv. cap. 2. 〈◊〉 Wats Quodl 8. 4. Costerus among theÌ„ being one who had a 〈◊〉 deale more reading and learning and iudgment theÌ„ you seeme to haue pretermitting as he telleth vs the Churches of the East and of the South saith it is certaine that Germany and Fraunce were first converted by such as Peter sent And afterward he would bring in the kingdoms of England Scotland as brought to the faith by the successours 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Peter in the see of Rome and to those he addeth Africa meaning as 〈◊〉 should seeme some paâ—… thereof lying neere to Italy for hee himselfe alloâ—…h Aethiopia to Saint Matthew and Aegypt Libia the Africanes there about to Simon and Saint Marke the Evangelist But the conversion of Spaine he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 S t. Iames of Thracia and Scythia Europâ—…â—…o Saint 〈◊〉 oâ—… Scythia Asiatica to Philip of Armenia and the hither part of India to Bartholomew of Parthia Media Persia 〈◊〉 the Brachâ—…ane Bactrians vnto Thomas as also the farther part of India which is yet beleeved in that couÌ„trey as b Osor. degest Eman. lib. 3. Maff Hist. Iudic. lib 2. appeareth by such as haue written the navigations of the Portingales into those partes And at these things are witnessed by some of the old writers so c Eccl Hist. lib. 3. 1. Eusebius hath this farther that Asia fel to Iohn the Evangelist meaning Asia the lesser or Natolis but that Peter as it seemeth did preach the word to the Iewes who were d 1. Pet. 1. 1. dispersed in Pontus Galâ—…tia 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Asia 2 Thus in the time of the Apostles the greatest parte of the known world had heard of the faith of Christ in some good measure embraced it that being verified that e Rom. 10. 1â—… their sound that is the Apostles went out through all the earth and their wordes into the ends of the world and Christs Prophecie being fulfilled that f Mat. 24. 14 the Gospell of the kingdome should be preached through alâ—… 〈◊〉 world for a â—…nes vnto all nations and then should the end come which was done before the destruction of Hierusalem that g Vers 34. generatâ—… beeing not yet passed which lived in Christs time And this is so vndoubted a truth that Costerus saith The h Controv. cap 2. Catholike Church as first was propagated by the Apostles themselues almost through all knowne countreyes Now all this while there was no Pope and if it should bee obiected as no other shift there is in the world and that is but a simple one that Peter as Pope sent the rest of the Apostles some to this place some to that I require one text oâ—… scripture to bee shewed or one monument of antiquity to be produced which maye confirme so much It is not vnlikelye but that the Apostles in some assembly at Hierusalem did consent what regions each of them should betake themselues vnto but that any one did appoint to the rest their charges we no where find Nay plaine it is that Peter himselfe had his portion assigned him to preach to the i Gal. 2. 7. Iewes as Paule had to preach to the Gentiles which was the greater charge And whither this were appropriated to him by God as the text seemeth well to encline or whither by the consent also of the Apostles Paule had his Commission in the same manner which he so little thinketh inferiour to the others that he k Ibidem nameth it before Peters and standeth vpon l ver 8. 9. tearmes of equality in power and fellowship in action But that I may force the authour of this libell to say Penne thou writest vntruth Samaria received Christ by the preaching of m Act. 8. 5. 14. Philip before that Peter knew of it and the n 27. Eunuch of Aethiopia on the way was in like sort brought to religion by the same Philip and he went home immediately and planted the faith in his Countrey as o Eccl Hist. Lib. 2. 1. Eusebius sheweth which was done without Peters privity for a good space after that hee made doubt whither the Gentiles might haue the worde opened to them vntill that by a vision q Act. 10. 10. from heaven that scruple was removed And I pray you was there nothing done by Saint Paul whose authority was immediate from r Galat. 〈◊〉 1 God not froÌ„ man he beeing not set on worke from other but receiving his commission from Iesus Christ himselfe The history of whose labours in turning men to Christ although Saint Luke doth particularly relate in the Actes of the Apostles yet for brevity sake we will looke to one place only of his owne
if matters be wel sifted Now if it be so that Priests do go to such countries as you intimat what should they otherwise do for to their own natiue soile many of theÌ„ dare not returne as being fled thence perhaps for slâ—…gitious crimes other haue there no maintenaÌ„ce nor friends so besids the dà ger of the laws they should be to al meÌ„ ridiculous conteÌ„ptible who haue traveiled so farre brought home with theÌ„ I say not liuelyhood ability but no learning or good quality And in the Seminaries they may no longer stay but if they should refuse g Apolâ—… 12 Priest-hood or offer to stay being coÌ„maÌ„ded away they would be held periured persons with coÌ„tumely be turned out therfore I cannot blame theÌ„ if they rather adventure any where vpon vncertaine hope theÌ„ run vpoÌ„ certaine daÌ„ger If needs they must beg they think it the more their credit to do it in far couÌ„tries then where they are known And this if they should grumble as whither they do or no theÌ„selues can best tell to whom may they complaine or who shall amende ought since their penurious or hard harted superiors ingeminate vnto them the vow of obedience that is their amends 12 But how some of these Priests Iesuits haue mortified their affections lusts coÌ„posed theÌ„selues to their graues may bee iudged by their gallaÌ„tnes in apparel their gaming their striving for place superiority their tos-potâ—…ing other such behavior as hereafter I shal touch Now let me rather see whither they haue renouÌ„ced al riches hâ—…nors or no That our Seminarians come into EnglaÌ„d most poore it is not to be doubted Yet that some of theÌ„ here haue purles ful of gold as h Dec'arat of popish Impostâ—…es exam of Sar will Dibdale other that some speÌ„d many i Sparing Discor of Iesuites huÌ„dred pounds by the yeare that some ride in their k Ibidem Coches vp downe the country is a matter confessed not to be doubted vpon How many are the cousening cunny-catching tricks wherby they haue drawn out l Quod 3 10. thousands of pounds out of their ghostly childrens purses Is it not avowed that m Sparing Discovery 2200 pouÌ„ds at one time was by theÌ„ sent over seas out of EnglaÌ„d Nay are not the riches of the Iesuits so great that warning hath bin given by one of their own religioÌ„ that all christendoÌ„e had need to look to theÌ„ lest they aspire to a n Quodli 9. vbique Monarchy here in Europe as they haue done to the governmeÌ„t of sapona And lest this speech may seem to be vttered without all ground conceiue the infinite wealth of that society It is too wel known to those who haue lately travailed that the possessions of the Iesuits in some parts of Germany but especially in Italy Polonia are incomparably great some thousaÌ„ds of manours townes villages being theirs What their wealth was in France may be iudged by this that the credible report is that at their last o Quod. 9. 7. expulsioÌ„ froÌ„ thence they lost three millions at the least In Spaine they haue what they wil almost But their greatest benefit is that vnder the king they haue free trafficke to the Indies to their inestimable gaine How this may bee you shall heare one of their English-Romanists briefly reporte p The 2. letter of A. C. fol. 20. The Iesuits in India do more theÌ„ coÌ„petent respect their teÌ„poral boâ—…te in that spiritual trafficke And with golde pearle spice such like Indian wares they every yeare froÌ„ theÌ„ce inrich copiously their society in Europe If this yet do not satisfie you desire to heare more of Iapona that froÌ„ the mouth of another witnes haue it then from a low Country-man reporting the travaile of some who went rounde the world q Additam None parâ—…s Americae In Iaponia of the Portingale no man hath any authority or power besids the Iesuits who do there exercise marâ—…haÌ„dising of al matters most ample And these almost al are Portingales who while they were in Iaponia did informe the greatest part of the nobles people coÌ„cerning the popish religioÌ„ when they had perswaded theÌ„ with divers dreames they did so draw theÌ„ vnto their side that by these they are now esteemed reverenced as in the place of litle Gods These Iesuits also do diligently take heed that no moÌ„k of any other order be receiued into those laÌ„ds So making theÌ„selues Lords of all matters men they do there exercise most rich most frequeÌ„ted traffickings Here theÌ„ is now the first credible relatioÌ„ that they haue won some to their popery but whither these were wise people or no to be thus circuÌ„vented other men may iudge In the meane time it is manifest that these Machiavilian most earthly minded Friers haue not renouÌ„ced al riches honors and as men mortified haue composed themselues to their graues Which being true of these who pretend the highest state of perfection what may we imagine of Secular Priests the shevve of whose sanctity is contemptible in the eies of these Mounsieurs This is a taste to you D. Hill of the truth of your asseverations although I must acquaint you also that if your Priests should do those externall things which you name that is endaunger themselues and leaue earthly commodities yet this doth not warrant that their labouring is to winne men to Christs faith No more then theirs was who r Mat 23. 15 compassed sea and lande to make a Proselyte and when hee was so made hee was two-folde more the childe of hell then they themselues s Iob. 〈◊〉 Sathan himselfe doth compasse the world but it is not to good purposes As a s 1. Pet. 5. 8. roaring Lyon he walketh aboute seeking whom he may devour The Foxe goeth farre from his denne and adventureth his life also if he should be caught and yet his going is to destroy The t Aug. lib. 〈◊〉 conâ—… Câ—…escon Gram. Circumcellian heretikes not for truth but for their fancy ' parted with al things that this world might yeeld them yea with life it selfe u 1 King 1â—… 2â—… 〈◊〉 Baals Prophets did to the vttermost hazard themselues for Baall The u Eus. Eccl. Hustor 8. 20 Marcionites had their Martyrs and so also had the x Socr. 4. 27 Arrians who lost their liues But it is not what a man suffereth but the cause wherefore he suffereth that maketh him acceptable to God T. HILL ANd I see also on the other side that no Protestant ever had so great zeale of his religion as that hee woulde for spreading abroade the same forgâ—… any vvorâ—…ly commoditie either by founding Seminaries or Colledges in Countreys or by going or sending where any difficulty or danger was but as one wholely respecting this vvorlde hee vvaâ—…ovveth in vvealth and pleasures at home or if by any
idolatry But while you receiue such as haue had education otherwise howsoever it hath beene neglected by them you are rather the Partridges of whom Saint Austen by remembraÌ„ce of the words of the Prophet e Ier. 17. 11. Ieremy doth speak such Partridges as gather the young which you brought not forth as your Seminaries doe declare But God be praised for it some of them doe serue you as Saint f Heâ—…mer lib. 63. Ambrose reporteth that the Partridge is served For whereas one Partridge doth steale away the egges of another Partridge and hacheth them if the opinion of that learned Authour be true divers of the g Epist. lib. 7. 48. young being hatched when they afterward heate the voice of their owne and naturall dams in the field leaue their step-mother and come againe to her to whom by original right they belonged So many of your infection after true grace imparted from aboue doe returne from your Seminaries and adioine themselues sincerely and laboriously to the Church of England They are bound to blesse God who delivereth them in such sort even as h Ion. 2. 10. Ionah was freed out of the whales belly They are come out not of the Doue-house which fertilely bringeth forth Pigeons but from Babylon where i Is. 13. 21. Zâ—… and Oâ—… be and Ostriches Dragons For as the old bee there so are the most part of the young Malicorvimalâ—…â—…vum A bad crow a bad egge And now telling you that a great part of this your fourth Reason is taken out of M. Bristowes fiue and twentith Motiue I let you go play you though but for a turne or two 24 BVt to come to the Reader whereas here the tearme of Heretikes is so oft vsed against vs we briefly aunswere with Saint Gregory k Moral lib. 10. 16 ex Exod. 8. 26. That is service vnto God which to the Egyptians was â—…nation And whereas among so many other foolish ones that is made a reason why the Popish religion should be truth saving M. Doctours vnpointed and vncoÌ„cluding discourse what can there by sound argument bee enforced therevpon What shal be the ground that must be stood on For cannot Heretikes pervert The Apostles haue told vs that their l 2 Tim. 2. 17 words fret as a Canker that m Cap. 3. 6. they creepe into houses yea that n 2. Pet. 2. 2. many shall follow their daâ—…able waies And you heard before what the Arrians did Or is it not vnto truth Why as touching this disputation that is the maine question betweene the Romanists vs. And to build vpon that is but Petitiâ—… prinâ—… to seâ—…ke to haue that graunted which is mainely and especially denied We do not yeeld that any of them winning their Converts to the subiection of the Papacy do bring them to Christ but rather to Antichrist Or is it a necessary coÌ„comitant of verity in doctrine that such as haue 〈◊〉 among them should be bound to convert Nations to the faith TheÌ„ to say nothing of the Iewish Church which had the word appropriated to it alone for so long a time what shall we thinke of France and England and Ireland and many other provinces of Europe which for a thousand yeares togither are not knowne to haue converted any one countrey to Christ but haue had enough and perhaps too much to do to keep theÌ„selues in the integrity of piety And yet our Pseudo-Catholiks make no doubt but that al that while they had the right beliefe These things do manifest the ficklenesse and vnstaiednes of thâ—… foundatioÌ„ heâ—… laid But if to turâ—… men to Christ be so necessary 〈◊〉 duety what wil they say to such a strange bringing home of so many kingdomes and regions of Europe within these huÌ„dred yeares and that by a few at first and those weake ones when Sathan and the Bishop of Rome and many potent Princes confederated with him did leaue no meanes vnsought to stifle Truth as in the cradle When the sword hath not beene spared the fire hath not beene forborne when their mighty men haue stroue their learned men haue written there haue beene wanting no libels no slanders no defamations yea no rebellion and treason and massacting and poysonfull attempts and yet neverthelesse Truth standeth vpright You talke of conversion but all the lovers and wel-willers of the whore of Babylon may and do stand amazed and gaze wonder at the ruine of their kingdome by so many millions going from them And we trust in Iesus Christ the conserver of the faithfull that in peace in warre in al things that can come this Arke of Noe shall swimme in safety floate being beaten vpon with many billowes but yet evermore bee preserved God hath not in his mercy given so much light that it should be extinguished or the glory of it much dimmed before his sonnes appearance With the breath of his month hee hath 〈◊〉 Thess. 2. 〈◊〉 ken and blasted that man of sinne and it now remaineth that he should be vtterly abolished at Christes comming Gaze therfore you Romanists till your eies and heartes doe ake to see the â—…ine and confusion of the Gospell and yet as wee trust in Almighty God you shall never haue your purpose THE FIFTH REASON Largenesse of Dominion through the multitude of Beleevers T. HILL THE Church vvhich the Mâ—…ssias vvâ—… to plante must bee 〈◊〉 is aforesaide dispersed through all nations and kingdomes 〈◊〉 the Holy Proâ—…ts â—…st plâ—…ly fore-shewed and namely the Royall Prophet speaking of the Apostles and Preachers vvhich shoulde succeede them saith Their sound went forth into all parts of the Psal. 18. Earth and their wordes vnto the ends of the circle of the earth And â—…st â—…festly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…sse of Christian domiâ—… in thâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psâ—… And S. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 beasts and the fâ—…e â—…d twenty Elâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before the Lâ—…be â—…ging thus Thou art worthy Lord to take the booke and to open the seales therof Apoc. c. 5 for thou hast bin slaine and hast redeemed vs to God in thy bloud out of every Tribe and people Language and Nation and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 her plâ—… After these things saith he I saw a great company which no man 〈◊〉 able to number of al Nations Tribes and Peoples and Tongues Cap. 7. G. ABBOT IT was long since saide that whereas our blessed 〈◊〉 Saviour whcÌ„ he was takeÌ„ vp to an exceeding high mountaine and shewed all the kingdomes Math 4 8 of the world and the glory of theÌ„ did refuse that offer of SataÌ„ Al these will I give thee if thâ—… wilt fall downe worship me the Pope coÌ„ming long after hearing that such a liberal profer was made tooke the Devill at his word in hope of such a wide exteÌ„ded dominioÌ„ did fal down and adore him You come in this place to plead for your Grand-maister the Bishop of Rome by the validity of this DonatioÌ„ but forgetting that
he who first meÌ„tioned the match is the 〈◊〉 father of lies so coÌ„sequently may promise that which is not in him to Iohan. 8. 44. perform you gladly would chaleÌ„ge the coÌ„pleting of the bargain that your master vnder SathaÌ„ may have so large a kingdome And that you may the better prove it as that cuÌ„ning deceiver alleaged mis-alleaged the c Luk. 4 10 Scripture it selfe so you doe to your Auditours yea so strictly you do follow him that wheras he cited what he had to say out of a Psal. of David you also begin in that sorte labouring to evict a false CoÌ„clusioÌ„ froÌ„ a right true PropositioÌ„ That the Church of the Messias must be throughout al Nations David you say foretelleth you cite vs for that purpose a verse of the 18. Psal. as you reade it after the Septuagint of the 19. as we more truly account it out of the Hebrew d Psal 19. 4 Thâ—… 〈◊〉 is gone forth through all the earth their words into the â—…ds of the world which seÌ„teÌ„ce whosoever coÌ„sulteth that text shal se properly originally to meane the course of the heaveÌ„s which being in coÌ„tinuall motion being whirled about the CeÌ„teâ—… the earth do testify to all nations that there is a supreme power guiding governing the whole world And this doctrine to wit that from the ordering of the Creatures the being of a God may be collected S. Paule doth also teach But that saying of David the same e Cap 10. 18 Apostle as f Rom 1. 20. you suppose extendeth farther to the doctrine of the Apostles Preachers Verily the words also cited by S. Paule do caâ—… the same sence for the Creatures no otherwise if you naturally literally do take theÌ„ then I may truly say that you caÌ„not g Bellar de verb. Dei lib 3. cap 3 invincibly demonstratively inferre that out of them which you desire NotwithstaÌ„ding because S. Paule per spiritum Apostolicum by the Apostolike spirit which was in him which is not to bee fouÌ„d but in the compilers of the New Testament might adde alter explicate apply places of the olde Testament to that which the words did not literally cary at the first because our Saviour Christ himself did so being ful of that spirit which spake by the Prophets because also some of the olde 〈◊〉 fathers alluding heerevnto have not properly but by allusion referred this Chrysost in Mat 24â—… August Epist 80. Scripture to the preaching of the Apostles wee will not stande with you but accept it for the generality as you here wold haue it as it is to some such purpose formerly alleaged by mee It is therefore condescended vnto that immediately almost after Christs asceÌ„sion the Gospel was divulged East West North South in very many countries but whither in every particular Nation vnder heaven we dare not say since all is in the Scripture taken for a great part as h Math 3 5 then went out to Iohn Hierusalem alludâ—… all the region round about Iordon which is to say very many inhabitants of those places and they persons of all qualities And else-where i Luk. 2 1 all the world being a most general speech yet is so restrained that it must imply no more then so much therof as was subiect to the Romanes Which was much at that time but farre from the whole earth It is also truth that in another Psalme the Roial Prophet vnder SalomoÌ„s person who was a figure of Christ doth foretell that the k Psam 72 10 11 Kings of Thâ—… fit of the Heâ—… shall bring presents the Kings of Sheba Seba shall bring gifts â—…ea all Kings shall worship him all nations shall serve him inteÌ„ding the Messias But will any man so take this according to the letter that there should never be King not Agrippa not Domitian not Sapores but should be ChristiaÌ„s al natioÌ„s at al times should entertaine the faith This extent must be so coÌ„sidered that at one time or another before the day of iudgement Christ Iesus should bee preached in some part of all â—…uine regions here and there Kings and Queenes whcÌ„ God should be pleased to call theÌ„ should submit their scepters vnto the Lord of heaven But you might well perceive that these thinges are spoken by an Anâ—… he sit betweene the lewish Church which was restrained within the compasse of one lande and so coÌ„tinued for many ages and the Church vnder the New TestameÌ„t which should at one time or another be variously diffused through all general places of the world And what else do those two texts out of the Revelation insinuate vnto vs but that Christians should be picked from many nations people farre otherwise theÌ„ while the lewish Synagogue did flourish but you will not I trust inferre that all nations at all times or all people of all Nations should belong to the true sheepe-folde but there may be ebbes and flowes the Church in the l Apoc. 12. 6. wildernesse at the time appointed m 2. Thes. 〈◊〉 3. Apostasy revolting n Luk. 18 8 faith cant to be found among men since there is nothing fore-tolde by the Spirite of God but must have his accomplishment And therefore since we are warned of both there must be an age of paucity as well as of plenty a waning of the Moone as well as a full or waxing But what vrge you heere-vpon T. HILL THese thinges with many such like on Holy write are no wise verified in â—…y Relegion vnder Heaven but onely to the Romane Catholike Church for that 〈◊〉 but it as every man knoweth hath had any large sâ—…pe to account vpon in any age And it hath bin for these thousand yeeres at the â—…east throughout both the Hemispheres in such forte that the Sâ—…nne stretcheth not his bâ—…s further then it doth and hath done yea there is 〈◊〉 nor people nor climate in the world which hath not heard of and 〈◊〉 some measure received the Catholicke Romane Religion G. ABBOT 2. IF you take Religion heere for the true service of God we deny Popery to be Religion If you take it for devotion in what sence soever then vvhat say you to the Saracâ—…nsfaith which for many hundreds of yeere while it possessed so much of Asia as Persia with Media Arabia with the countrie adioyning besides what is added within these 300. yeares by the raigns of the OttomaÌ„â— in Africa al the Northren part froÌ„ Aegypt to Marocco alonge the Mediterrane Sea and in Europe some thing as the kingdome of Granado in Spaine and diverse times more then that there was nothing inferiour for circuite of land to the boundes of the whole Westerne Church wherin only the Pope dominered And shal Mahumetisme herevpoÌ„ be coÌ„cluded to be that faith which must save mens solus But good Sir when the Primitiue Church did
Peter that was according to atradition much received among the Anciēt but for the māner therof much differed vpō by all Besides Prosper lived in the daies of Pope Leo the first with In vita Leonis Mapni whō he was very familiar with u In vita Prosp. Aquitan whō he was at Rome receiving many favours from Leo and therefore might more easily incline to the opinion of that Pope who began to arrogate too much to his See and to magnify it so farre as that his Successours but especially x Lib. 3. Epist. 76. Gregory woulde not stande to it This doth often appeare in the vvorkes of Leo but I vvill cite by name one place whence Prosper might have the prose of that which heeturned into verse Speaking vnto Rome as concerning Peter Paule hee saith thus y Leo Serm. 1. in Nativit Petr. Pauli These are they who brought thee to this glory that thou shouldest be a holy natiō a chose people a citie of Priests Kinges and that by the holie seate of Saint Peter thou beeing made the head of the worlde shouldst more largely rule by divine religion then by earthly dominion Whē Prosper heard this from Leo as an Orator he might set it a strain higher as a Poet who in his amplification would leaue out no word which might grace the place whō hee would honour And then he could not see the inconvenience that afterward did arise by too much magnifying that Episcopal or Patriarchical city And these things are especially to bee remēbred if you would vrge his words to that purpose which in this place principally cōcerneth you that is to say that the faith was spread over al the world Truth it is that much of the world ioyned in the same beliefe with the Clergy city of Rome from thence as being one of the Imperiall residences they had great light many also repaired to the Bishops there as being for a long time eminent persons in respect of their holines of life but if we wil speak exactly neither did they take their religiō from thence more then frō Hierusalē Alexandria Antioch neither did I wil not say the fai◅h of Rome but that faith which vvas in Rome as wel as in other places possesse the whol world For first the z Loco cita◅o words of Leo himselfe do signifie the Christian Religion to be no farther spread over the earth then the Roman Empire had bin or little more we know that albeit vnder that Empire was much of the old knowne world yet there was also a very greate deale which never came vnder their subiection And secondly even at that time being about 450. years after Christ neither by the Apostles nor by their successours had the Gospel bin mēcioned in many parts of the old world which is it that seemeth here to ly on you to proue And for this we neede no better testimony then his whom before you cited S. Austen I meane who was an old mā living when Prosper was younge Besides I wil choose no other place but one of those whom yourselfe cite which being throughly scanned by the Reader will evidently shew that you D Hill do take vp your wares at trust Or else had you looked and knowne the place your selfe you would never haue cited that which so expresly confirmeth the point by mee taught and over-turneth your assertion of the Gospell being spreade in all countries of the world taking countries and Nations particularly and specially and strictly as you doe in your discourse 7 Saint a Epist 78 Austen then being asked by Hesychius concerning the n◅enesse of the day of iudgment had in a former Epistle given reasons out of the holy Scriptures why that time was not likely to be very shortly and among other that was one that the b Mat. 24. 14 Gospel of the kingdome had not yet bin preached throughout the whol world Hesychius is not yet throughly satisfied thervpon S. Austen so advertised setteth to him againe in a second Epistle and farther prosecuting that point of the faith not yet received every where he vttereth these words c Epistol 80. Whereas your Reverence doth thinke that this is already done by the Apostles themselues I haue proved by certaine arguments that it is not so For there are with vs that is to say in Africa innumerable barbarous nations among whom that the Gospell is not yet preached we may everie daie read◅ learne by those who are brought captiues from thence are now mingled with the servants of the Romanes Then he addeth that some of the African people being lately subiected to the Romanes had given their names to Christ But those more inward who are vnder no power of the Romanes are not at al possessed with the Christiā religion in any of theirs Yet he saith it was not to be doubted but that more and more woulde come in that the Prophecies of the Scripture might bee fulfilled But that the Western part of the world had the Church thē already Afterward looke in what natiōs therfore the Church yet is not it must be not that atwhich shal be there must beleeue for al natiōs are promised but not all men of all nations And yet againe Howe then was this preaching fulfilled by the Apostles in as much as yet there be nations which is vnto vs most assured in whom it lately began and in whom not as yet it is begun to be fulfilled Hee sheweth that it was and must be performed in the Apostles and their successours to the end of the world And to that purpose hee expoundeth that speech d Psal. 19. 4. Their sound is gone out into all lands by the future tense as well as by the time past He shutteth it vp thus It is fructifying and growing in all the world although the Gospell did not yet possesse the whole but hee did say that it did fructifie in the whole world increase that so he might signifie how farre it should come by fructifying and increasing Novve who doeth not see that the same which this vvorthy Father said in his time of innumerable nations in Africa not yet called to the faith might then many hundreds of years afterwarde yea in some till our time be verified of the Northren partes of Europe and of the North and East countries of Asia to say nothing of all the new-discovered lands toward the North South West of which before I haue spoken And this togither with Hieroms owne words before mentioned Or else we see shortly to be fulfilled In Mat. 24 doeth shew that the speeches of the auncient Fathers aboue named are not strictly and precisely to be taken but that all is to be vnderstoode for much and many and for all the generall coasts lying to the East and West and North and South not including each speciall And so consequently such a multitude of authorities is but very idly
approved the doctrin of the Papacy acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ. This was about the yeer 1439. And to shew his facility in this kind of invention the same Eugenius provided some to come not into the couÌ„cel for feare of the pack being discovered but about the ending of it who said that they were the Legats of the Patriark of Armeniâ—… who also professed to allow the faith of the Pope to approue that which was concluded in the CoÌ„veÌ„ticle of FloreÌ„ce And because such fine trickes as these shold not grow cleane out of vse at the last meeting at TreÌ„t t Idem in Session 21. Pope Pius the 4. had such a PageaÌ„t For he caused Amulius the Cardinal theÌ„ abiding at Rome with him to write a solemne letter to the Fathers at TreÌ„t that one Abdisu the Patriarke of the AssiriaÌ„s in the East dwelling neere the river Tigris was by the advise of his people come to Rome the yeare before accoÌ„panied with some Priests a Deacon That the Pope in a full consistory of his Cardinals had pronounced him to be the Patriarke Pastour of that people yet not so but that first he did heare him make the coÌ„fession of his faith and tooke an othe of him to keepe obedience to the See Apostolike That departing away hee desired to have sent him a copy of the Decrees of the Tridentine couÌ„cel wheÌ„ all there shold be accoÌ„plished But in the meane while he did testify that the same faith which is nowe helde in the Church of Rome had without any variatioÌ„ bin among theÌ„ since the daies of the Apostles All this was divulged after that Abdisu was gone from Rome to the end that no maÌ„ might disprove it What a wroÌ„g did you to your cause that you did not put these in especially since the Iurisdiction of this Patriarke was so large that hee had vnder him in the Great Turkes dominion seaven Archbishoprickes all Metropolitans thirteene Bishoprickes vnder the Sophy of of Persia five Arch-bishoprickes Metropolitane thirteene Bishoprickes â—…yea vnder the dominion of the Portingals in India three Arch-bishoprickes one Bishopricke VVould not this have made a faire shewe when your troupes vvere in the fielde you have done your Lord and Maister the Pope wronge so to oover-skippe these in such a fashion For our part we must winke at such simple trickes as these bee Yet these will serve to abuse the children of vnbeleefe and to gulle many a good silye Papist 11 Some kind harted man wil pity me that wheÌ„ you leade me such a daunce over all the world as you doe I must bee bound to follow you But let my friends take no care for if you make not very good hast I shall bee in some of the places as soone as you Now we come to the new worlds whereof our great Grand-fathers never heard and there we must thinke that Popery springeth by thousands In what countrey are you Sir when to make vp your foure quarters you put Iaponia in the North It is within lesse then ten degrees of the Tropicke and more Southward then Spaine yet with you it must bee North. So Brasilia is South-ward when yet the vpper parte thereof is verie neere to the line If you had named the South Continent for South and the Iles tovvard the Northerne Pole for North or else Cathay vvee had better allovved thereof But vvee must take what you give vs and you must give vvhat you gette VVee vvill for the while doe you the favour as to imagine you to stand iust vnder the Aequinoctial But the coÌ„mon bragge which is agreed vpoÌ„ amoÌ„g you is that you have large harvests in the new world Bristowe u Motiv 2â—… saith that the Church hath in those partes vvonne more incomparably then iâ—… hath lost by Heretikes in these our partes Stapleton goeth as farre beyond him as hee goeth beyond the truth Thus then hee talketh 〈◊〉 Though in very deede through the A Discourse vpoÌ„ the doctrin of the Protestantes pernicious persuasions of that wedded Frier certaine places and couers of Christendome have svvarved from the Catholike Church and authority of the Apostolike Seâ—… in these North partes of the world yet it hath thousands folde more beene enlarged in the West parts and the new lands found out by Spanyards and Portingales in these late yeeres as the letters of the Iesuites directed from those countries into these partes doe evidently and Miraculouslie declare Hee who wrote the Apologie of the Seminaries harpeth vpon this string but with a lower tone z Chap. 6. The Iesuites in the East Indies have brought countries which were very barbarous and the most potent Princes of them togither vvith the provinces and people subiect vnto them to the Catholike Romans faith y Con. Davidem Chytraeum Possevinus your great States-man proclaimeth that in these laÌ„ds lately discovered it is a miracle of al miracles to see how many be coÌ„ verted meÌ„ going through so many seas to do it then without weapoÌ„ or force alluring theÌ„ to Christ. But al these great clamors not withstanding they who will read either your own writers or other know how it standeth wel enough Then briefly to open the truth In the yeare Pet. Mar. Decad. 1. 1. 1492 ColuÌ„bus the Genoway with some Spanyards at the charge of Ferdinandus Elizabeth king and Queene of Castile did faile so far to the West that he came to the Ilands since called Cuba Hispaniola The matter vvhich there they aimed at was store of gold and silver which the couÌ„try did yeeld afterward they did light also there-about on aboundance of pearle all which were sweet baites for the greedy needy Spanyards The fame of this stirred vp both the Princes to send the subiects to goe in huge numbers thither when not longâ—… after the maine lande of America was descryed and after that Peru the South sea the kingdome of Mexico a Benzo in nova novi orbis hâ—stâ—ria li. 1 2. In all these rich Provinces did these Spanyards set footing and finding them litle better then naked men without armour yron or steele having only for their weapons clubs and simple bowes arrowes they without leaue or liking of the inhabitants built at first Castles in divers places afterward at their pleasure townes citties Some of the ancient people there they slew downe in warâ—some other of them they caused to destroy one another either raysing new discords among them or cunningly perpetuating their olde thousands of them did these new commers slay taking them single and alone such as lived they inforced to bee their slaues causing theÌ„ to worke like brute beasts in their mines without any compassion of them where if they were slacke they were chastised with intolerable torture which made many of theÌ„ drown theÌ„selus some others throw theÌ„selus froÌ„ rocks or into the mines yea generally they so
Catholikes ever sought the death of their Soveraigne though of a different religion from thē the conquest of their natiue land the subversion of the state the depopulation of the weale publike the alteration and change of all lawes customes and orders and in few the vtter devastation desolation and destruction of all the ancient inhabitants of their land c. Now if this may be saide of the laity of the English Papists what censure may bee given of the Priests the vrgers and instigatours of all these things He speaketh elsewhere more particularly of the Seminary Priests y Quod. 9. 4 Howe can they expect any favor when they are taken none can deny that their comming over is to increase the number of Catholikes and that Fa. Persons raigneth and hath the whole direction at this day for all the missions that are for England How then alas how may her Maiestie and the state conclude against them What lawes can bee too extreame to keepe them out of the land Or if they will needes come in what severity for the execution of lawes against them can bee more then sufficient Into what gulfe are we plunged Nay into what an obloquy are we plunged Nay into what an obliquie must the Catholike Church of Rome grow in that the execution of Priesthood and treason are now so linked together by the Iesuits in England as we cannot exhort any to the Catholike faith but dogmatizando in so doing we draw him in effect to rebellion You see that this writer doth not sumble nor doubly budgen but delivereth his opiniō roundly And if any one should except that these be the assertions of private and single men hee may see a treatise put out by ioint consent of divers Seculars and written of purpose to cleere the proceedings of the State in England from bloudy cruelty or vn-advised rigorousnes in cutting of such rotten members You may iudge the contentes thereof by the Title which is this z Edit An. 1601. Important considerations which ought to mooue all true and sounde Catholikes who are not wholy Iesuited to acknowledge without all equivocations ambiguities or shiftings that the proceedings of her Maiestie and of the State with them since the beginning of her Highnesse raigne haue beene both milde and mercifull By this time if there bee any wit or sence left in you you may put vp your pipes for complaining of the hard vsage of Priests sent hither from the Seminaries I haue beene the more large in this argument partly to stop your clamorous mouth and partelye to satisfie weake persons either on our or your side and not least of all to free the honorable Parliamentes and Magistrates taking order against such venimous vermine from the forged imputations and scandalous defamations in this particular laid against them by name of him a Supposed to bee D. Worthington who falsly reporteth the suffering of sixteene pretended martyrs in one yeere that is the yeere of Iubily 1600. Now I follow your steps againe where I left 21. When you fall to daring you shewe your selfe but a simple man There is one by whose helpe David did dare leape b Psa. 18. 29 34. over a wall and to attempt with his armes to breake a bow of brasse by whose protection in a righteous cause that England which by a diminution you call litle doth dare to stand against the strongest enemy that it hath What should hinder it good Sir to cut of lewde persons wherewithall God is well pleased when the late Queene thereof at her entrance to the Crowne did not feare all the Potentates in the world nor the backwardnesse of many of her owne subiectes nor the combining almost of all her owne Cleargy but that in the name of God and in the vndanted confidence of his maintaining of his owne truth shee did spread the banner of the Gospell and without discouragement did persist in that resolution till the day of her death the English fugitiues and the Irish Male-contents yea the Pope and Spaniard contriving to the vttermost to impeach it Why shoulde not this our country dare to doe well when by the singular favour of God blessing his true religion in it it hath beene able to repel that invincible Navy to sacke many of the kings townes in the West Indies to batter his Groine in Galitia to march with ensigne displayed almost an hundred miles in the heart of his countrey to knocke at his gates of Lisbone to sinke his fleete at Cales and to burne that towne at pleasure the Spanyards looking on scant offering to strike one blow The time hath beene that this England which is such a little more in your eie hath sent c Holinshed in Rich. 1 Edw. 3. Hen. 5. 6. a mightie army as farre as to Palestina hath had two kings prisoners in it at once and two of her owne Kinges crowned in Paris And hee is blind who seeth not that at this time it hath decayed no part of her ancient valure or worth Then do you never feare but it may dare to execute such companions of yours as will heere disturbe the peace of the Church Common-wealth Now that it grieveth your pretty heart that you haue not your will among vs I doe verily beleeue and do not you thinke that wolues beares doe much grieue that they cannot come at the sheep-folds but the shepheards will meets with them As our d Luk. 23. 28 Saviour somtime said to the women of Hierusalem that they should not weep for him but for themselues and their children so wee may bid you not to grieue for the evil case of England but to be sory weep for your sinnes and most malicious blindnesse that God without his more future mercy should giue you over to a reprobate sence so as to fly truth and to hate it to barke against the light to cary vndutifull thoughts to your Superiours and vn-natural to your countrey where the Lord be praised for it there is nothing vnhappy vnlesse it bee that it hath hatched into the world such vipers such monsters who care not what become of her so that Sathā may be king Antichrist may be general How your brethrē are persecuted with plenty ease aboūdance not lōg since I told you The wiser sort of thē cannot but acknowledge as evē now you heard that no Prince vnder the heavē being so zealous in Gods cause having sustained such indignities at the hands of many of that factiō as our late most Christiā Queen had done would haue proceeded with that mildnes For the māner of your speech you are now returned to your old custome again Here is nothing but all'all How al the world hath embraced your profession I haue shewed you before The ancienter part of the Primitiue Church knew almost nothing of it the latter part of the first 600. years had some weeds cōming vp in it but the good corn over-topped
will take paines to reade the Lives of the Saints as they are set downe by the foreinamed Authours Such trimme men are your miracle-workers and therefore your miracles must needes also be of an excellent sute T. HILL AND therefore I say vnto you out of Saint Austen I am bound and tyed in the Catholike Church by the band chaine August devtil cred c. 〈◊〉 l coÌ„t Epâ—…sund cap. 4 of miracles And I am bolde considering and most stedfastly beleeuing these insinite glorious miracles of all times ages in the Catholike Romane Church to crye out to Almighty God with Richard de S. Victore lib. de trin cap. 2. Lord if it be not true which we beleive thou hast deceived vs for these have bin confirmed in vs by such signes wonders as could not be wrought but by thee But on the contrarie parte never any Protestant could worke any miracle at all but assâ—…ying to make some shew thereof to make their Doctrine the more probable to their followers felte the iust revengement of God who turned all to their shame confusion as he did by Simon Magus by Cyrola the Patriarke of the Arrians as witnesseth Grego Turon Egesippus lib. 3 de excid hieroâ—…ol cap. 2 lib. 2. hist. Fran. cap. 3. by the Donatists Optatus lib. 2. contr Parmen 〈◊〉 our dates by Luther endevouring to dispossesse a wench and by Calvin going about to delude his disciples as you may read in Hierom Bolsec in vit Calvin cap. 13. And therfore they are most foolish Vid Staph in abs relp and miserably inconsiderate who beleeve these newe fellowes not being able to quicken a flea and leave the doctrine of the Catholike Church confirmed with innumerable miracles G. ABBOT 9 IN the texte you cite one saying out of Saint Austen but in the margent you quote two The 〈◊〉 former place doth only mention that the truth of Christian religion De vtilitat credend cap. 17. is coÌ„firmed by miracles But you therin abuse your Reader notably For he speaketh of miracles past that in Christs time and not of any which were to come or like to coÌ„tinue in the church The words to which hee alludeth are more plaine in the chapter next before going where in a larger sort he haÌ„dleth that argumeÌ„t Such x Cap 16 things were doÌ„e at that time wherin God in a trâ—… maÌ„ did appeere as much as was sufficient for men The sicke were healed the lepers vvere cleansed going was restored to the lame sight to the blind hearing to the deafe And there is speech of no other matter And to no other purpose is the second place where the words are not which you cite His saying is thus that there bee diverse thinges which doe keepe him in the bosome of the Church y Contr. Ep. fundament cap 4 The consent of people and nations doth holde mee there doth hold me an authority which was begon with miracles nourished by hope euer â—…ased by charity confirmed by antiquity Doth this make for you as you thinke or against you The authority of the Church was begon with miracles It is true meaning of the time of Christ and his Apostles but he doth not saye it was continued and must be continued vnto the worldes end much lesse doth he affirme that it must be as a necessary argumeÌ„t of truth So you haue gained much by these two places even as you haue done by the whole ranke of your woÌ„ders wherof such as appertaine to you that is the late LegeÌ„dary inventioÌ„s are many indeed but not infinite are so far from being glorious that they are plainely coÌ„temptible ridiculous fit for your vn-Catholike Romane struÌ„pet whose throne must be supported with lies and variety of falshoods In being therfore â—…old you may be more bold theÌ„ you haue thanke for your labour but do not saye that you most stedfastly beleeve for you bestow too good a word vpon your selfe In such stuffe as this is z Palingen in Geminis Quifacilis credit facilis quoque fallitur He who lightly beleeveth is easily deceived You are strongly conceited you haue a boisteous imagination froÌ„ which the sooner you fly the safer you wil stand The a De Trin. lib. 1 cap. 2 words of Richard de S. Victore are not spoken of your fabulous and instly questionable wonders but of such signes as gaue evidence to the first preaching of the Gospell were wrought by Christ and his disciples which were so true so strange as that they could be wrought by none but by the power of God and therefore we may beleeve the doctrine both of the Trinity and other matters which they confirmed and not be deceived at all Yet this addeth no credit to your forgeries illusions neither convinceth that now we are to depeÌ„d on miracles That we do not take on vs to be able to work any we do most willingly acknowledg We know that those daies are past although God do not so restraine himselfe but that the praiers of his servants interceding he sometimes suffereth strange things to be done But we caÌ„not presume vpoÌ„ it since we haue no warrant for it out of the word of God And who is there I pray you in the whole Hierarchy of your Papacy who dare professedly assume that gifte vnto him Dareth your Pope the ministerial head of al your holines dare your Cardinals your Bishops your Friers your Priestes Long agone the b Decretal lib. 5. tit 35. cap. 3. Templars in Livonia did enforce the poore people to this that if any of theÌ„ were accused of any crime to purge themselues they shold go bare-footed over certaine redde hot irons if they were burnt at all then they were helde for guilty But some newly coÌ„verted to the faith coÌ„plained of this to the Pope Honorius the 3. he inhibited that any more such triall should be made calling it a thing forbidden a greevance that wherin God was tempted The like may be said of any who presuÌ„ptuously should professe to atteÌ„pt any strange miraculous matter it is but a tempting of God even by the iudgmeÌ„t of c Isa 7 12. Ahaz nowe long agone who beeing but an evil man yet was so faire tightly instructed Yet that good hypocrite your S. Dominicke going to dispute against the d Ioh. Bâ—…isseul contr Spond Albingenses preteÌ„ding that he would proue theÌ„ heretikes did bid theÌ„ write their reasons cast theÌ„ in the fire if saith he they will not burne then we wil beleeue you As if the holy Bible were not truth if beeing cast into the flame it would burne to ashes You can tell vs tales of your men doing else-where great wonders but you should doe well to sende vs some of your miracle-mongers hither that we may iudge of their iugling You mutter much of an holy annointed Priest that he by exorcizing can cast out Devils but we wonder that these
blessed Saviour came first into the world for the ratifying of his dotrine which seemed strang for the testifying of his divine power he wrought many wonders And yet he sharpely t Matth. 12. 39. Ioh. 4 48 cap. â—…0 29. reproved those who would not beleeue without miraculous signes as intending that they should be but for a time then afterward little or no vse of them But for the planting of his Church at first he gaue also to the Apostles and some disciples that power that they might worke wonders adding concerning that time that these u Marc. 16. 17. tokens shall follow them that beleeve In my name they shall cast out Devils and shall speake with newe tongues and shall take away serpents and if they shall drinke any deadly thing it shall not hurt them they shall lay their handes on the sicke and they shall recover Yet that soone afterward the ordinary exercise of these was extinguished wee have verie ample testimonie u Eccle. hist. lib. 5. 3. 7. Eusebius sheweth that in the daies of Irenaeus which was soone after the Apostles there were yet done some miracles implying by many things in his Narration that very soone after that gifte did cease I noted before the words of S. Austen x De civit Dei l 22. 8. Why are not those miracles saie they now done which you report to haue beene done Hee answereth that they were necessary till the world beleeved but now faith being spred in the world hee himselfe is no better then a vvonder or a monster vvho vvill not beleeve vvithout seeing vvonders And in another y De vera Religion cap. 25. place thus Since the Catholike Church is diffused through the whole world and grounded neither are those miraculous thinges permitted to indure vntill our times least the mind should alwaies seeke visible things by the custom of theÌ„ mankind should waxe cold at the newe appeerance whereof it was all on fire c. Truth it is that in his z Lib. 1 10 Retractations he expoundeth himselfe what he meant by this passage It is true in deede for even vntill novve when the hand is laide on them vvhich are baptised they doe not so receive the holy Ghost that they speake vvith the tongues of all nations neither novve are the sicke bealed by the shadovve of the preachers of CHRIST passing by and if any other such thinges vvere then done vvhich it is manifest that aftervvardes they ceased But that vvhich I saide is not so to bee vnderstoode that novve no miracles shoulde bee beleeved to bee done in the name of CHRIST For hee saith that himselfe sawe a blinde man recover his sight at the bodyes of the Martyrs at Milaine and some other matters hee saith were done alluding of likelyhood to those many wonders spoken of by him in the a De civit Dei l 22 8. place formerly mentioned And whereas hee had saide else-where Why b De vtilitat credendi cap. 16 wilt thou say are not these things done now Because they would not move vnlesse they were wonderfull But if they were common they would not bee wonderfull he expoundeth that also in the same booke of Retractations thus c Lib 1 14 And this I saide because not so great ones nor all are done now not because that none are done even now 13 Saint Austen acknowledgeth both heere else-where that some strange things were done in his age but not such great ones as formerly not so often not by an ordinary operation but sometimes wheÌ„ God was pleased to permit it which is notwithstaÌ„ding so to be taken that the assured faith of no maÌ„ before haÌ„d could lead him vnto it And that such matters were done about that age or a little before we have more witnes Iustine d In quaest ad â—…thodox 28. Martyr saith of the time wherin he lived that the bodies of holy meÌ„ sepulchers of Martyrs did remoove away the intrappings of SathaÌ„ heale desperate diseases Basile somewhat neerer the dates of Austen 〈◊〉 saith that in battailes lately before fought God 〈◊〉 In Psal 18 with haile fire consumed the Northren Barbarians who overwhelmed them And by the same meanes he hindred the Persians who would haue taken their cities killing some and returning others home to carry newes of the destruction of their fellowes f Haeres 51 Epiphanius telleth of miracles which we dare not be too bold to beleeue as that there were divers places whom also he nameth where somtimes in the yeare the water in their wels and rivers was wonderfully turned into wine in remembraunce of that which Iesus had done at Cana in Galile May wee not by this example feare that diverse of the gravest fathers of the Church goe a little too farre in their reportes as g Eccl. Hist. Lib. 7. 14. Eusebius did also in telling of the image of the woman cured of an issue of bloud by CHRIST at the foote of which as he said grew three hundred yeares afterward an herbe which when it came vp so high as to the garment of the woman ' it vvas of force to cure any kinde of disease Which narration is shrewdly censured by h In metho Hist. cap. 4. Bodine as detracting credite from Eusebius in other matters But be it thus that rarely there were done some strang things for the space of some hundreds years after Christs ascension Yet this was no set certaine or ordinary vocation of vvorking miracles and therefore is very little to be accounted of for the purpose here in hand Heare Gregory on this point i Mor. li. 27. 11. What marveile is it if the faith being propagated miracles be not oft done since even the very Apostles in many which were already faithfull did not doe them This place being vndoubtedly Gregories may make the freer exception to be taken to the books surmised to be his Dialogues for here he telleth vs that miracles are not often done there if all should be true nothing can be more common Notwithstanding hence it is apparant that in his age there was a discontinuance of the practise of miracles no man was noted for a common doer of them none assumed that power vnto him and therefore since now a thousand yeares are passed from his time what vndoubted reckoning can at this time be made of them Nay what argument could be drawne from them in the daies of Saint Austen Might that which our adversaries vrge that those who did miracles had the Catholike faith How evidently how copiously how forcibly doth Saint Austen overthrow all that Reason There were Donatists other heretikes who did vrge miracles of their side Doth Saint Austen therefore yeeld therevpon that their doctrine was Orthodoxe No but thus he saith k De vnitatâ—… Ecclesie Let him shew it and not say therefore it is true because Dâ—…atus or Pontius or any other did those and thâ—…se miracles
some of theÌ„ being to be presupposed to be ordinarily intelligent in EnglaÌ„d where a ielousy is iustly had of their impostures to play acte exploit so lewde fraudulent and wicked a Pageant and thinke that they may not only go currant away with it heere but that the fame of this busines bruted els-where should serve theÌ„ beyond the Seas for Catholike purposes and bee a meanes to holde vp the reputation of the Antichristian Papacy If our seduced Romanistes vvoulde not close their eyes they might see vppon what trashe their religion is builte and that their leaders care not howe they bee abused and ledde by the nose so that their owne proiectes and intâ—…ndments be affected 18 To draw then toward an end of this point Popish wonders for the most part we precisely hould to be lies others of theÌ„ if they be done to be no better in respect of their end but delusions and meanes to deceive men by bringing them into errour And coÌ„cerning those that are really done first we maintain that they do not prove that the doers of theÌ„ are Gods servaÌ„ts For eveÌ„ in Bede himselfe who was such a magnifier of miracles I do find that one s Eccle. hisâ—… lib. 3. 25. Vilfridus could say thus CoÌ„cerning your father ColuÌ„ba his followers whose sanctity you say you imitate follow his rule precepts even confirmed by signes from heaveÌ„ I can answere that at the day of iudgment many saying to the Lord that in his name they have prophecied and cast out Devils done many wonders the Lord shall aunswere I knovve you not vvhich aunswere of Vilfridus beeing grounded on the vvordes of CHRIST is of infallible verity Secondlie we saye that miracles done doe not confirme that the doctrine of those vvho doe them is verity since that for the convincing of the Devill God hath suffered heretikes to do wonders not to ratifie their errours but to confirme other of his truth VVhich may aptly be applyed to the reports of miracles shewed by the Iesuits in the Indies if so be that any of them be true For s Con. ca. 2 Costerus one of their own companions most appositely informeth vs thus They doe saie that some of the Novatians in times past did miracles but it vvas in testimonte of the Catholike faith amonge the Gentiles not in vvitnesse of their errour as hee vvho did cast out Divels in Christes name in the ninth of Luke Then the doctrine of wonder-doers may be false as the persons of miracle-workers may be reprobates To Prophecie saith Saint t De simpli praelatoruÌ„ Cyprian and to cast out Devils and to doe greate wonders on the earth is a high and admirable matter Yet he doth not attaine the kingdome of heaven vvhosoever is founde in all these vnlesse hee doe goe in the observation of a tust and right vvay Thirdely vve teach that it is no argument of falsehoode in faith not to bee able to doe vvonders since the time of them is ceased and vvhen they were at the best they had in them no enforcement to make men beleeue the trueth For as 〈◊〉 Chrysostome saith Amonge the Iewes also miracles were shewed 〈◊〉 Inpsa 45. neither by them vvas there any profite brought to their salvation For as the beames of the Sunne are not sufficient vnlesse the 〈◊〉 also bee pure and sounde so neither heere also doe onelie miracles suffice And so Saint u â—…e duplici martyrio Cyprian Hâ—…vve manie incureable diseases deathe Lorde heale with a word to how many blinde men did hee giue sight c. And yet few beleevedon him hee heard In Beelzebub hee casteth out Devils Afterward it was so even with the same Iewes they in the time of x Soct li. 3. 17. Iulian the Apostata going about to reedifie the temple at Hierusalem and God shewing three straunge vvonders against it but yet they woulde not come to Christianitye Not long after that y Lib 7 4 a Iew comming to be a Christian was miraculously healed of a disease and yet the rest of his nation would not receiue Christ. Then the ende of them novve is to little purpose the execution of them common to the wicked vvith the godlie the practise permitted to Antichrist and his followers no such perpetuall marke-set on those that bee Orthodoxe and therefore wee striue not for them but knovve that God hath lefte a surer vvaye to vvinne men from errour and to try who are in the trueth and that is his worde and the operation of his sacred spirite But yet vvee are not so blinde but to see nor so vnthankfull but to acknovvledge that the Lorde hath for the advauncement of the Gospell vvhich vve preache done marveilous thinges In vvhich sorte vvee accounte the large spreading of the trueth by the meanes of Luther his vvonderfull preservation all his dayes notwithstanding his enemies so many so mighty so malicious his dying quietly z Sleid. l. 16 in his bed in such peace of body and minde and in that honourable accompte as that even then vvhen hee dyed hee vvas chosen an arbitratour to decide controversies betweene the noble Countyes of Mansfeld VVee thinke that it vvas marveilous that vvhen such a 〈◊〉 massacre was made of the Protestantes in Fraunce in the yeere 1572 there shoulde remaine 〈◊〉 CommeÌ„t relig reiptn Gal. lib 10. so many still as haue propagated so renoumed a Church as they haue at this day That such plenty of b Lib 12 fish should bee cast vp dayly by the sea at the seege of Rochel vvhereby as by Manna from heaven the people vvere for so many months releeved and the very day that the enemies campe brake vp the comming of the fish ceased VVhat may vvee think that so small and maligned a Citty as Geneva is shoulde be so long helde against the invasions and infinite plots of the Duke of Savoy and other vvho desire the ruine desolation of it What of the Netherlanders that after so many thousande Spanyardes and Italians buryed in their coastes so many millions of Indian gold silver spent in their country such frawd such force they should stand rich and glorious at land and at sea in better case of themselues then ever they vvere Lastlye vvhat may bee imagined of the life and raigne of our late blessed Soveraigne who after so many daungers comming to the Crowne and that in so many difficulties of subiectes at home and forraine Princes abroade yea and of the Divell every where did professe to maintaine the truth of God to deface superstitioÌ„ And in this beginning she with vniformity coÌ„tinued yeelding her land as a Sanctuary to al in the world groning for liberty of true religion florishing in wealth honor estimation every way admired by al the Monarkes whither the same of her did come and leaving matter for such a story as no Prince hath lefte the like This Queene after the defeating of the
others his consorts to haue done either vsurpingly or vniustly So that very true it is that the Greekes do not allow the eighth Synode not the other which followed and were held in the west by the meanes of the Romane Bishop with out their indifferent concurrence 11 What you cite in the name of the Lutheranes out of the Magdeburgenses is acknowledged and consented vnto by vs. In the eighth 〈◊〉 cent 8. 9 Century they among other Provincial meetings speaking of the confluence at Nice which is commonly called the second Nicene Councell in the setting downe thereof doe not dissemble their opinioÌ„ that is their dislike vnto it And what Christian man is there rightly advised which hath read the o Exod. 20. second commandement concerning Images who doth not both dislike and detest that Conventicle for decreeing both erection and adoration of Images in Churches In the like sorte in the ninth p cent 9. 9 Century the compilers of it do shew themselues not wel affected to that which you call the eighth Generall Councell they haue no smal reason for it For besides the allegations of the Greekes against it which even now is specified and besides the matter of it which I will not stand to discusse there was a foule attempt at the very entrance into it The Pope of Rome had so farre prevailed that he had there his Agents who stoode at the Councell dore with writing tables profering them to all who would enter there and requiring that they first should subscribe to the Iutisdiction and transcendent authority of the Romane Bishop To which Such as yeelded did enter in and those who refused were not only repelled but it was done with much reproach and disgrace vnto them A fit course to make a free Synode And of this sort either directly or indirectly haue all the Popes Councels bin You tel vs that some Eutychians be in Asia and Nestorians be in the East whereas indeed Asia is in the East but countrey in particular you name vs none nor authour you cite vs none I haue heard indeed of Marchantes who haue travailed in those parts that at this day there is at Aleppo a CoÌ„gregation of Nestorians and likely it is that in the country therabout or farther of in Armenia there may be more Neither is it vnlikely but that some also may embrace the old heresie of Eutyches in those parts In as much then as Nestorius was condemned in the third General q Socn 7. 33 Evagr. 1. 4. CouÌ„cel at Ephesus it is probable that his folowers wil refuse that Synode consequently all coÌ„ming after ratifying that so they must only accept the 2. formost And since Eutyches Dioscorus were coÌ„deÌ„ned in the 4. r Evagr. 2. 4 CouÌ„cel at ChalcedoÌ„ it is most credible that if there now be any who haue coÌ„tinued or revived their daÌ„nable heresies they wil not approue that of Chalcedon but only such as went before it What such in Polonia Hungary do as speake against the Trinity therefore are rather to be called Antitrinitarij then Trinitaries â—…it mattereth not to vs. We disclaime theÌ„ we abominate theÌ„ we execrate theÌ„ as we do the Eutychians Nestorians al other heretiks Neither do we ioine with the Greekes in all things as you know although some of their doctrins we prefer before those of the Church of Rome And therefore most ridiculously vnfittingly do you close vp your Chapter Behold the liberty of your Gospell when here are none named the Lutheranes excepted vvith whom we haue ought to do And for our liberty in the Gospel of reiecting such vnwarraÌ„table stuffe as Image-worshipping TraÌ„substantiatioÌ„ the like maintained by your heretical meetings we learne it of s Gal â—…8 9 S. Paul who hath taught vs not only that if a maÌ„ but if an Angel froÌ„ heaveÌ„ bring any other doctrin theÌ„ is in gods word let him be accursed And we being sufficieÌ„tly informed by Gods word that we are not to be inthralled to the beggerly s Colos 2 20 traditioÌ„s of meÌ„ do purpose by the assistance of the Lords heavenly grace to t Galat. 5 1. stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made vs free VVee accept therefore of this Christian freedome but Libertine-like licentiousnesse vvee leaue vnto you And so for a litle while I dismisse you with this remembrance that what you say of the CouÌ„cels accepted or excepted against by the Greeks the Lutheranes the Eutychians the Nestorians and the Trinitarians both for the matter and quotations you borrow froÌ„ Cardinall a Coacil l. 1. cap 5. Bellarmine 12 TO notifie then the iudgement of our Church concerning CouÌ„cels certainly we do hold them being rightly lawfully assembled proceeded in to be great blessings froÌ„ God notable meanes to remoue schismes to extirpate heresies Thus we are taught by the example of the Apostles 〈◊〉 coÌ„gregating 〈◊〉 Act. 15 6. theÌ„selues togither and by the fruite which some such meetings had in the Primitiue Church Yea we do like of that sentence of blessed Constantine after the Nicene Councel who 〈◊〉 said that the decree of keeping Easter by al vniformly and not 〈◊〉 Euseb de vita Const lib 3 18 by some after the fashion of the Iews was to be imbraced at the gift of God as if it had bin a coÌ„mandement sent downe from heaven For saith hee whatsoever is decreed in the holy Councels of Bishops that all ought to be attributed to the will of God Marke hee saith not generally in the Councels of Bishops nor in the CouÌ„cels of holy Bishops for even such may erre but in the holy Councels of Bishops that is in such as wherin men do holily conforme theÌ„selues vnto the Scripture of truth go no farther theÌ„ God is their guid Such as come without humane preiudice are zealous of truth earnest in praier for it diligent in searching it out huÌ„ble to yeeld conforme theÌ„selues to it Such were the first general CouÌ„cels where men did look to the load-star of the word therefore they are accepted of vs. Yet so that we do not esteeme theÌ„ as the sacred Oracles of God equivalent to the Scripture or of equal authentical force but as the definitions of Godly men out of the word so that they giue no vertue to the old new Test. but take al that which CouÌ„cels haue froÌ„ them therfore as takers and not givers are inferior to them We do therefore hold that speech of Gregory to be hyperbolically vttered not litterally iustifiable I x Greg li 1 Epistol 24. confesse that I doe receiue reverence as the foure books of the Gospell so the foure Councels And again And y Li 2 Epist 49. wee doe so receiue the foure Synodes of the holye Universall Church as the foure bookes of the holy Gospell If it be flatly and directly taken it is a hard and
English Papist to shew out of the Fathers of the first sixe hundred yeeres diverse pointes of Popery as their private Masse or that the cōmuniō was administred but in one kind or that publike praiers were saide in a language not vnderstood or that the Pope was called the vniversal Bishop or the head of the church or that mē were taught this faith that the body of Christ was contained in the Sacrament substantially really corporally carnally or that Christes body was at once in a thousand places or that there was elevatiō adoratiō of the Eucharist diverse such other matters which the Bishop did constantly deny not to be knowen or taught in those times of the first Church The substance of this h An. 1560 Sermon made at Paules Crosse did D. Humfrey rehearse writing the life of the saide M. Iewel and afterward interserting his ovvne iudgement concerning many matters in difference hee groweth to this head that the onely exacte way of reformation of abuses of determination of truth is the vvorde of GOD that it alone is to bee made the iudge Vppon vvhich insisting hee inferreth that therefore Maister Iewell gaue too much and yeelded to the Papistes more then equity and was too iniurious to himselfe when hee tooke not the surer easier shorter course of triall by the Scriptures alone but gaue larger scope of expatiating into the Councels Fathers But most absurdly is your Popish conclusion gathered out of this that therfore D. Humfrey knew or confessed that the Fathers of the Primitiue Church were against vs and him You should rather haue inferred thus much that D. Humfrey thought that M. Iewell had a sure matter in hand when needing to referre all but to the Scriptures he appealed also to the Fathers that both by the witnesse of God and man he might avouch his assertions In case of triall for land we know that authentical writings and evidences are the best and most absolute meanes of deciding right but if he who oweth and possesseth the writings knowing the integritie of his cause shall not refuse also to haue his quarrell tried by the testimonies of indifferēt mē in the coūtrey he hath departed so much from his owne right and done more then he need to do If then his friend shoulde say that therein hee hath yeelded to more then meete and did himselfe a wrong by it by yeelding his adversary many exceptions wheras he might haue tyed him onely to one should not a stander by make an absurd collectiō if he should gather vpon this that the litigants friend savv well that the witnesse of the Countrey would goe against him And especially when he whom it most concerneth shall by the testimony of those to whom he appealed make good all his asseverations This was the Bishops case and no otherwise then thus was it reported by the Venerable Doctour And albeit this may appeare to bee thus to every one who will read the narration yet because Bristow Campian and you take it all one from another and other may yet take it farther your people be still abused as if so learned a man as D. Humfrey had both disliked M. Iewels words and given sentence touching the Fathers against vs for the farther satisfaction of the Reader I desire these thinges to be marked First that Doctour Humfrey in that booke concerning M. Iewell as also in his i Secund pars Iesuitis other against Campian doth frequently cite the old Fathers for vs in all questions of difference that occurre Ergo he doth not thinke that the Doctors are all on the Papists side and not on the Protestants Secondly that in'all his Lectures Disputations and Sermons he was most copious in citing and alleaging the ol◅ Fathers to confirme our doctrine and to enervate Papistry as not only we may remember who often heard him but divers of our Fugitiues now beyond the Seas who were of his time in this Vniversity Thirdly to this particular that in the very k Fol. 124 place where he speaketh of the Bishops challenge he putteth these wordes before And here is necessarily to be repeated that Protestation or denunciation which was heard out of this place of Paules Crosse which our adversaries doe calumniate to bee vaine and frivolow which notwithstanding they will not deny to be true who are of the better sort of wit and of more excellent learning Can a man speake plainer then the Doctour doth here iustifying that to be true which the Bishop said and calling the adversaries exception to the Challenge a calumniation Fourthly that in the l Fol. 212 place where he saith that M. Iewell yeelded too much when he went to farther triall then the Bible he subioineth this Which he did not willingly but yet he did it not besides the purpose that he might s◅ay you with the testimonie of your Fathers as with your owne sword He calleth the Fathers yours not because he thought them so to be but as Ironically because you bragge of them as if they vvere yours Thus doeth the vanity of this slaunderous cavill appeare to every one who will not wilfully close his eies against truth then for all this forged obiection the Fathers shall as wel be ours as yours T. HILL ANdyet because they haue found by experience that to teach Doctrine contrary to the anciant Fathers soundeth but badly in the peoples eares in their Sermons they gladly nowe and then alleage the authoritie of some Doctour or Father when they can by any meanes wringe or wrest any p◅ece of a sentence so as it may seeme to make for them And indeed he who alleadgeth the Doctours most is most praised of the audience as you well know which is a pittifull thing in them and ridiculous in the Preacher who cānot but know if he haue read any of them himselfe that the Fathers detest vtterly that Doctrine which he wresteth them to confirme and in the meane time the poore audience thinketh that they were of this new Religion whose simplicity is therein most pitifully abused by the Preacher G. ABBOT 23 YOur hatred to the Gospell maketh you easily giue sinister interpretations to our actions We mencion the Fathers in our Sermons to shew that our expositions of Scripture are not singular and m 2. Pet. 1. 20 private interpretations but such as were received in the Primitiue Church to convince the Antichristian enemy who like Iack Bragger boasteth of antiquity when in comparison of Gods booke his beliefe is nothing else but noveltie It is not because wee woulde blinde the eies of the people or stoppe their eares since as you say to teach doctrine contrary to those Auncients soundeth ill for if there be iust cause we plainly and evidently shew where we dissent from them Which wee doe being warranted by the word of God which n Galat 1 8 teacheth vs that if an Angell come from heaven and preach otherwise then the Apostles haue preached