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A56638 A continuation of the Friendly debate by the same author. Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707.; Wild, Robert, 1609-1679.; Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist. 1669 (1669) Wing P779; ESTC R7195 171,973 266

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an enemy As for Mr. W. B. I confess ingenuously I said a little the more of him because you have been too long gull'd by such pretenders to Mysteries and Spirituality Yet I do not think I said enough but ought to have told you plainly that he is one of the principal Impostors that have perverted the Truth as it is in Jesus and adulterated the Christian Religion in this Nation He spoiles almost all the Holy Scripture he meddles withal and turns it into an idle tale of these times and makes it say whatsoever it pleases him and his Proselytes to hear Which when I seriously consider I cannot but say with a little alteration as one doth on another occasion to his Countreymen That it is a shame there are laws against those who counterfeit Coynes and falsify Merchandizes yet such are permitted who Sophisticate our Divinity and corrupt the Holy Scriptures and turn our Religion into a new fancy and device of their own The late great Plague is but of small consideration in compare with this mischief and if speedy order be not taken the multiplying of such Authors will make a Library as big as London wherein there shall scarcely be found one wise Sentence or reasonable Conceit N.C. It 's thought Sir by some that you are much mistaken in making him the Author of that Book which you reprove since it bears only the two first Letters of Mr. Bridge his name And I have heard you blam'd for charging him with those things which he hath not own'd C. I think rather those Apologists are mistaken For why doth he not disown it if it be not his Book since it contains such dangerous things Or why did not the Preface to another Book since stoln into the world and carrying his name in the front of it inform us that this was genuine and the other Spurious But if he had there are very few that would have believ'd him For they are as like each other as two pieces of Cloth that are of the same Wool the same thred the same colour working and bredth There is the very same Canting in both the same abuse of Holy Scripture the same Spiritual pride and contempt of others the same evil speaking and seditious Doctrines and in one word the way and Spirit of Mr. Bridge N.C. Why do you jeer I know you allude to the Title of one of those Ten Sermons which he calls The Way and Spirit of the New Testament C. I do so And am better able to describe his Way and Spirit than he to set out that N.C. I think you had better forbear such Comparisons C. Pray let me try a little It will both divert us a while and not prove unprofitable Turn I pray you to the fifth Sermon at your leisure and tell me when you have compar'd our Conceits P. 371. c. whether of us do better First I say the way and Spirit of Mr. Bridge is not as he would have it a Childlike but a Childish Spirit A way and Spirit that hath nothing manly nothing of the ancient Christian sense and Spirit in it but abounds with Phrases trifling observations and perpetual Tautologies And yet thinks it self most gorgeously bedeck't with Gospel Truths Dispensations Manifestations Discoveries and I know not how many other glorious things besides Secondly it is not a fearing but a fearless Spirit dareing to talk of God our Saviour in the boldestand rudest terms taking a kind of Pride in inventing new and monstrous Expressions and spiritualizing Religion into airy fancies Thirdly The way and Spirit of Mr. B. is not an understanding but a Non-sensical Spirit An instance of which is this that it hath no certain rule whereby to measure the love of God But sometimes it made successes a great argument of Gods regard to them and now it tells us that the Crosses are a mark of it and that the Children of God must be persecuted by the World Fourthly The way and Spirit of Mr. B. is to trade much or most or altogether with fancies and Dreams N.C. Pray do not say so C. You may put it in other words if you please and say it trades with absolute Promises But that 's the same for they are no better than dreams and fancies Fifthly In the old time men examined and considered what they believed and came to Faith by rational discourse But now in the dayes of Mr. B. Men are taught to believe they know not why and Reason is decryed as an enmity to the things of God Sixthly In the old times Christians were of a modest and humble Spirit but the way of Mr. B. is to teach them to be high and confident and to imagine great Discoveries and Revelations to be made to them And therefore they wrong'd Mr. Edwards very much when they said his Gangraena was full of lies because he told strange stories of men that pretended to have had Revelations and seen Visions for we find Mr. B. is one of them Seventhly In the old time Humility Purity Righteousness and Charity were held to be things most dear to God but now in the way and Spirit of Mr. B. we can hear no tidings of them For he can tell us but of three things that are dear to him His People his Truth and his Worship These are his Plate his fewels his Treasure as I told you the last time out of one of his Ten Serm. But you must know it is not a new discovery but an old and darling Notion of his which I find in his Sermon before the Parliament 29. Nov. 1643. There he tells us Three things God loves more specially His People his Truth and his worship And it is a beloved conceit I perceive among the party for one of his Brethren delivered it to the Parliament before him told them in a peremptory manner excluding all other things Mr. Tho. Goodwins serm of Apr. 27. 1642. p. 31. God hath but three things dear to him in the World the Saints his Worship and his Truth But which of these he loves best he could not tell for God therefore ordained Saints to be in the World that he might be Worship't and appointed Ordinances of Worship as means to build up his Saints Some honest old Christian would have told this great Divine if he had heard him you trouble your self Sir about needless Questions There is something God loves better than all these viz. Holines all Moral vertue For in truth there are no Saints or people of God but only in name without these Take away these and the most Orthodox Notions that can be in your head will make you no better than a Devil Nor will the exactest worship according to the purest Ordinances fail to be an Abomination to the Lord if these be absent But I forget my self The way and Spirit of Mr. B. is not to talk of any thing else but pure Worship pure Ordinances Gospel Administrations and such like matters upon
well enough the humour of those who according to their breeding seem with an equal passion to oppose every thing they dislike even to the colour of a Garment or the fashion of a Girdle You have enough Readers concerning the Motives to this Continuation of the Debate when you are only told this farther that the Author having heard of some exceptions against the former Book thought good to Answer and as they deserve to shame them in this It is like some of our deceived Brethren will hold this labour damnable and execrable Preface to the Confutation of the Errors of the Brownists B. 2. as being bestowed in their opinion against the Church of Christ against the Saints and Children of God and his Holy truth To whom I answer as the Non-conformists did to the Old Separatists Let my tongue cleave to the roof of my Mouth when I endeavour to speak and my Pen stick to my fingers when I attempt to write any thing against the Church the Children or the Truth of God But the Errors and follies in those whom I think to have some goodness in them may I hope be reproved without being thought to reprove their goodness besides by endeavouring to keep them from being Righteous overmuch I take a course to preserve them from becoming too Wicked And now I believe nothing would be more grateful to some than to know the Authors name but I have nothing to say to them but that it is an impertinent curiosity to inquire any farther after him since he hath no mind to be known and since there is no need of it For his name can add no credit or strength to his Reasons and as for matters of Fact he hath directed you where to find them without inquiring after him to be resolved about them But if any body think it good manners to inquire into that which others would have kept secret Yet I am sure it argues great want of good breeding to say no more to bespatter as some have done this and the other person whom they only conjecture to be the Author Laying to their charge things that they know not Let me advise them to be more Civil Since I am sure they do not yet know me nor I believe ever shall unless I please and since by disturbing themselves and others still in this kind they are like to reap nothing save their own further shame I end with the great Counsel which Mr. Whittingham long ago concluded a Letter of his withal * Troubles at Franckfort Printed 1575. Know before you judge and believe not all flying tales keep one ear open and report the best April 15. 1669. THe Reader may take notice that there is an Alteration made in this second Edition of almost two pages in the first 364.365 The Author conceiving that those words of the Book which he confuted should be otherwise construed than he thought at first sight as was intimated in the Errata But in stead of them he hath now noted some other very much deserving to be censured IMPRIMATUR Tho. Tomkyns R. Rmo in Christo Patri ac Domino D mo Gilberto Divina Providentia Archi-Ep Cant. a Sacris Domesticis Apr. 24. 1669. Ex Aed Lambeth The Contents of the Continuation THe Non-conformists affected language and foolish imitation of Scripture-phrase noted pag. 1. About taking Gods name in vain and breaking the third Command pag. 2 3. The Covenanters highly guilty of it pag. 4 5. c. How Mr. Case taught them to take the Covenant pag. 7. Some pleaded Religion for breaking it pag. 8. Contrary to the solemn Protestation taken by both Houses before pag. 9 10. Non-conformists offended at the Friendly Debate and why pag. 11 The Apostles sense of giving no offence 1 Cor. 10.32 Ib. The Debate not guilty of it pag. 12 Non-conformists did not think heretofore that they ought to forbear reading Common-Prayer because some said it gave them scandal pag. 13 Great scandal of Schism Ib. Of grieving the Godly pag. 14 Non-conformists guilty of it in the proper sense by casting scorn on Divine Service and our Governors pag. 15 Mr. W. Bridge an instance of this pag. 16 Just severity against such defamers petitioned for by themselves heretofore pag. 17 Answer to another objection against the Friendly Debate for being writ Dialogue-wise c. Ib Non-conformists have writ Dialogues too and those very absurd pag. 18 c. Mr. Hughes's Conference noted Ib. And two more Ancient one of which teaches to depose Kings c. pag. 21 The Non-conformists pretence of not being guilty in breaking the Laws because they are ready to suffer the penalties answered pag. 22 Their presumption that it is his Majesties pleasure they should take this Liberty against the Laws answered pag. 24 Their change of Principles who held heretofore that the Law was the Kings Superiour pag. 26 c Mr. W. Bridges remarkable for this Doctrine in a Book of his published by Authority pag. 27 28 More instances of their changing for their interest pag. 29 30 This remarkable in the Army Saints pag. 31 Who writ after the Copy set them by their Superiors pag. 34 That the Author of the Debate is of a harsh bitter and jeering spirit answered at large pag. 35 c. Railing not the better because in Scripture phrase pag. 39. Some instances of Non-conformists reviling language the better to shew whence the present railers learnt theirs pag. 40 Reflections upon a passage in Mr. Case pag. 41 An instance of sanctified wit as they call it pag. 43 Some famous New England preachers guilty of foul language pag. 44 That it hath wofully infected the people is apparent pag. 45 And it is an old disease Ib. How they were served in their kind pag. 46 c. The Author falsely accused of writing out of Malice c. pag. 51 52 How the Non conformists despise those that are not of their party pag. 53 The Authors moderation in his censures pag. 54 How he hath dealt with Mr. Bridge Ib. His way and spirit further discovered pag. 55 c. Particularly that it is Antichristian and schismatical as appears by the Sermon of the two Witnesses pag. 59 c. His dangerous doctrine about their power to disturb the state c. pag. 60 His prefixing the time for it out of the Revel pag. 62 * How often they have been deceived in their conjectures About this time pag. 65 66 c. * The danger of interpreting every judgment that befals in favour of their conceits pag. 64 A rare interpretation of the prophecies forenamed pag. 68 A reflection upon those bold deceivers pag. 71 The cause of these conceits pag. 72 Their presumption that their platform should be a pattern to all Churches pag. 74 Mr. Case his high opinion of the Covenant pag. 75 His and Dr. Wilkinsons and some of the Scots and others opinions of us pag. 77 78 c. And of the favours they receive from others pag. 80
Sottishness of the People that will be still cosened by such like Canters Will you never open your eyes and see how vain their pretences to the Spirit are Will you never be convinc'd of their presumptuous Boastings and empty Confidence Will you still believe that these men are highly illuminated who call that darkness which a little while ago was light and then cross themselves again and say no it is but Darkness Are these the men whom we must all follow who run we see in an endless round of contradicting their own Professions or must we shut our eyes and give them our hand that they may lead us whither they please Must we forget all that is past and believe they are now possest with an infallible Spirit This is the thing no doubt they desire We must resign our belief to their Declarations We must allow all their Reasons and Excuses whatsoever they be We must at least suffer them to justifie themselves by those very things which they formerly condemn'd and say nere a word And then we love them then we favour the people of God then they have some hopes of us and it 's possible God may have mercy on us though we be out of the way and do not follow them I know you will say that such as you are none of the Army-Saints that you condemn their Practices and hate their leud pretences to Religion as a great scandal to it All which I verily believe But let me tell you the Army had a copy set them of unconstancy and double dealing by those men whom you admired For there was a time when the Lords and Commons could see some good in the Liturgy and Government of the Church by Law established Nay more than that they made a Declaration * April 9. 1642. caused it to be printed and published in all Market Towns That they would take away nothing in the one or the other but what should be evil and justly offensive or at least unnecessary and burdensome And yet when they had more power they were of another mind Every thing was offensive at least unnecessary and burdensome nothing would serve but taking away all the Common-Prayer and plucking up Episcopacy by the very roots The reason I suppose was because this became as necessary to promote their Designs in process of time as that Declaration was at the beginning If they had rested there and gone no farther they had lost the hearts of the most spiritual who would never have seen such a glorious anointing upon them from the Lord Beam of Light by Ch. Feak as now appeared Now they very fifth kingdom men could not but see it and acknowledge it in Print though it was not long before they also chang'd like all the rest and had lost the sight of this glory being able to spy no Vnction any where but upon themselves For they helpt to profane the Crown of these annointed ones and cast out the greatest part of them as if they were but scum and filth But I think it 's best to trace your windings and turnings no further for fear they lead us too far out of the way N. C. A good Resolution Too much of one thing you know is good for nothing C. True And I think the first thing I said about your pretences of a tacit Indulgence is sufficient to shew that you are perfectly like men in danger of drowning who catch hold indifferently of what comes next to hand be it a naked Sword or an hot Iron N. C. Pray make an end of this for you have quite tired me with your Discourse In which you have largely proved the truth of the common talk that you are of a barsh nay a bitter and jeering Spirit and was in a cholerick mood when you wrote your Book C. Rather they that say so prove what I have been saying all this time that they blow hot and cold out of the same mouth and condemn that in others which they allow nay praise in themselves For you shall hear them call that Salt and Smartness of wit in one whom they love which is Bitterness and jeering in him whom they hate And that passes for innocent Mirth and Pleasantness in one of their party which is Levity and Frothiness in one of ours Nay it is Zeal for God and his cause if you aggravate the faults of other men or rashly charge and bring even a false Accusation against your Betters but it is malignity of Spirit hatred of God and the power of Godliness if we do but tell a plain and true story of your miscarriages No man ever opposed you resolutely but you said he rail'd No man discovered your Partiality and other vices but you complain'd of his Bitterness and said he was in a rage against you If by this you meant nothing else but that I write with some heat and earnestness I would confess it and say it is not to be condemn'd For who can contend coldly and without affection about those things which he holds dear and precious A Politick person indeed may write from his brain as my Lord Bacon I think observes without any touch or sense on his heart as in a speculation that pertains not to him But a Feeling Christian will express in his words a Character either of Zeal or Love which you know are warm Passions For my part I think I have expressed both but nothing at all of wrath and bitterness And therefore as to that censure which your Friends pass on me I believe he will speak a great deal truer that affirms the Authors of it were full of choller themselves Otherwaies they could not but have discern'd a charitable spirit in my writing and easily seen that the Indignation I expressed against some vices is such as consists with Christian Meekness and ought not to be condemn'd as an unmanly Passion Do you not find that Moses was very wroth when Israel committed a great sin and yet his Meekness is commended above all other mens And what think you of St. Paul when he calls the Galatians a foolish sort of people and plainly tells the Corinthians that he could as well use a Rod as the Spirit of Meekness and bids Titus whom a little before he warn'd against rash anger to rebuke some persons sharply Nay what think you of our Saviour himself was not he angry at the hardness of the Jews heart Mark 3.5 Was he in any fault when he said to his Disciples O fools and slow of heart to believe Undoubtedly I may sincerely and heartily love you when I express a just Indignation against you and you may as heartily hate me when you seem very gentle and kindly affected toward me It is possible you may have met with this saying out of St. Austin which is ordinarily cited by our Writers and worth your consideration It is so far from being true that every one that is angry with others bates them that sometimes he who is
therefore it was not amiss to hear him As for the rest I should not have troubled you with their conjectures had it not been to let you see First what they think of us whom they call the Antichristian the Popish party the Gentiles and Nations the followers of the Dragon and such like Names Secondly what they think themselves who are in their own esteem the Witnesses of Christ Jesus the Godly party the Saints that are to rule the Nations with a rod of Iron the followers of the Lamb who are to ascend to Heaven the Seat of Justice and do execution upon us Lastly What a Sandy Foundation their hopes are built upon and how confident they are and well perswaded of themselves without any cause at all And that indeed is the chiefest thing I aimed at To make you sensible they have no ground for that high opinion they have conceiv'd of their own wisdom and insight into the things of God they being blindly lead by their own Imaginations and passionate Desires while they think they understand and see more than all the Wise men in the World So the last man but one that I named brag'd and vapoured glorying that he had found out that truth which none of the wicked should understand neither Priest nor Prophet Rulers nor Seers All is hid and covered from them and the reason is because they drank of the Cup of the Whore of which if a man take but one Sip he is utterly incapable to have the Visions or mysteries made known to him And therefore he triumphs in this manner over all our Nobles and Clergy Who will beleive of all our great men and learned Prelates that Jesus Christ is come in the Clouds of Heaven and is set down upon the Throne of Judicature in his Saints and Witnesses to judg that man of sin No indeed they had more wit And yet this the man thought in his self-conceited Wisdom to be as clear as the Sun N. C. I am fully satisfied that they were much out of the way And therefore more words are needless C. That the way you might have said and Spirit of Mr. Bridg is mostly and chiefly to be out of the way N. C. I leave those conceits to you C. And you will leave it to me also for you take no notice of it to tell you the cause of all this N. C. Because I do not know it C. It 's easy to see that is nothing else but their pride and vain conceit of themselves as if God would reveal all his secrets to them and hide them from others For they are the Watch-men upon the Tower the Embassadors of Christ the Angels of the Churches the Lords Worthies And they that follow them are the Holy ones the Dear people of God the little Flock the Lambs of Christ the Meek of the Earth the Redeemed ones and the Remnant of Jacob. Nay as soon as ever any person comes to hear them preach they hope there is a work of Grace in their hearts and that they begin to savour the things of God and to desire the sincere Milk of the Word As for our Ministers Alas poor Creatures they are the False Prophets blind Guides Idol Shepherds that have eyes indeed but cannot see at all And our people are the World the Wicked the children of the Evil one Enemies of God and such as remain still in Egypt At least the vail is before our eyes or we have taken a sip of the Cup of the Whore and that sends up such fumes into our heads that we cannot possibly discern the mysteries of God Hence it is that the meanest of you takes himself to be wiser than the best of us than any of our Bishops and Priests nay the whole Clergy put together And if we will not have such a man in the same esteem that he hath himself presently we are lookt upon as enemies of the power of Godliness formal fellows or meer moralists that hate the true seed N. C. Doth not David tell us that God had made him wiser than any of his Teachers C. See how you still equal your selves with men inspired From which vain conceit and arrogant Opinion I make no doubt it is that you take every sudden fancy and strong imagination that comes into your head to be an Inspiration of God And that you are so adventurous and bold in expounding the Holy Scriptures as if it were given you in that moment as it was the Apostles what you should think and what you should speak Nay so deep have you drunk of this Witches Cup and are so intoxicated with self-conceit and self-love that you imagine all your Devices and forms of Religion and Government must be received by all the world For your mind is the mind of God and your words the Oracles of God So even Mr. Edwards himself seems to fancy Epistle before his Antapolog when he exhorts all people that were waving and hung doubtful between Presbytery and Independency to wait upon God in that way of his and Assembly of so many learned and Godly men to see What he will be pleased to speak by them N. C. What is this to all the World were they bound also to listen to what this Oracle would utter C. You are too quick I was going to add that as they think themselves the best people here so the best in the world and look upon the Reformation it self as needing a Reformation And therefore hoped that if they setled Religion among us according to their mind there would be a pattern from the Word set up in this Island for an example to all other kirks abroad Thus the Commissioners of the general Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland tell us * Directions to Ministers anent Malignants p. 12. and therefore call upon the Ministers to stir up themselves and the people in Truth and Unity because say they it will be a powerful means to preserve our Religion and to propagate the same to other Churches groaning under their several burdens and panting for such a Reformation as the Lord in Mercy hath granted us And accordingly they indicted the Fast I told you of on the Lords-day for the promoting Unity in Religion and Uniformity in Government and the advancing the Kingdom of Christ i. e. their Discipline every where N. C. None excepted C. No. For Mr. Case tells the Commissioners of the General Assembly * Epistle before his book called The quarrel of the Covenant dedicated to them that God had honoured their Nation in making them the first fruits and pattern of a thorough and Covenant-Reformation to us and all the rest of the Christian World And withal sayes I am humbly confident that the same shore shall not bound this Covenant which bounds the now two Covenanting-Nations But as it is said of the Gospel so it will be Verified of this Gospel-Covenant The Sound thereof shall go into all the Earth and the Words of it to
superfluous thing upon another No set Form can content it no limits or bounds can hold it but it is still inventing something new to please your selves and others and then you fancy God is pleased because you are I know you have a conceit that you keep your selves within the limits of the Word and that you dare not for a world stir beyond the confines which God prescribes But this only makes your Ignorance appear the more gross as I will plainly shew you N. C. I guess by what you said the last time whereabouts you will be but it will turn us too much out of our way to enter into that discourse at this time C. Well then I l'e let it alone till you give another occasion And the rather because I would have you go as soon as may be and ask what Will-worship is That 's another word in these Witnesses mouths of as much efficacy and as little sense as all the rest for when they are angry they charge one another with it as well as us The Independents were wont to say that it was Will-worship to set up the office of Ruling Elders in the Church And I can shew you one that calls the Church-Covenant requiring men to give some signs of grace and all the way of Admission of Members into Independent Congregations by the very same Name And therefore I believe you will soon leave such to wrangle it out and go and ask some others what they mean to bawl so against Forms But I believe there is not one of a thousand can give a reason why he may not as well accuse the whole frame of Nature as our Liturgy upon this account Especially if you tell him that there is nothing in Heaven or Earth but hath a Form That when we understand it is by forming some conceptions in our Mind and that we form our Speech or words to make our conceptions understood by others And therefore even your Prayers must be in a Form or else they are sensless stuff a meer noise and sound that no body can understand N. C. We are only against set Forms C. And so many of your Prayers have none at all but are then thought most heavenly when they are most confused and to have much of God in them when they have nothing of Man For the common word is I like not Forms c. He still sticks in Forms He is a dull formal man Which are Phrases as set and stinted as our Prayers They are never out of use but repeated an hundred times a day No repetitions they think are bad but only of the same Prayers nor any other constant Forms unlawful no not of railing and reviling but only those of Divine Service These they leave to the wicked and take the other to themselves N. C. Pray do not say so C. I must say more than that They hate a Form of Prayer but love to pray in these reviling forms of speech For they tell God how a Superstitious and Antichristian way of worship hath justled out his own Institutions That men worship the Graven Images of their own inventions That Gebal Ammon and Amalek are risen up against them And the people are taught to go and spread their anger and threatnings before the Lord And to tell him that it is an angry time a persecuting time a day of great wrath abundance of anger and wrath Seasonable Truths p. 180 182 184. and hatred and malice in the bearts of men against the people of God at this day Or as Mr. B. * Now his language is in another place Popish men have laid their net privily for us and we may go to Christ and say * Fulness of Christ p. 37. Lord pull us out of the net that they have laid for us for thou art our strength And for any thing I can see much of that they call the Power of Prayer consists in such Forms as these N. C. Alas You know not what that power is C. I know it is just such another word as Form which they use without any certain-sense as they are wont to do the Apostles words concerning a Form of Godliness without the Power of it This Form of Godliness if you will believe some is Praying by a set Form * Answer of the Ministers of New Engl. to the first Position p. 2. and then the Power of Godliness must be praying without one N. C. It cannot be C. It is as I tell you And this is one of the reasons that the world hate the Saints for that the Saints are a praying people You must not mistake Forms of Prayer they can indure Seasona Truths p. 168. but the Power of Prayer they cannot bear They are Mr. B. his words N. C. No indeed not if it consist of such railing language as you speak of But neither you nor I it 's like apprehend his meaning C. Do you know what he means when he gives this for another reason of the hatred of the world to the Saints that they destroy their Gods destroy their Idols Men of all things cannot endure to have their Gods destroyed now the people of God do destroy the Gods of the wicked no wonder therefore that they are so provok't against the Saints and people of God Ib. p. 167. N. C. Not I. C. Then you are very dull He means our Worship which they are wont to rail upon in those terms also calling it Idolatry worshipping the Golden Calves and setting up new Gods which are such rude and beastly Clamours that I am loth to foul my mouth with naming them They are only vile and abominable Phrases which every Ignorant wretch can serve himself of when he lists to reproach his Neighbours At first the Presbyterians called Conformity to the Innovations as they were stiled by them Worshipping the Golden Calves Afterward the Independents called the Directory the Golden Calves of Jeroboam Edw. Gangr 1 part p. 36.52 and affirm'd that this order to help in the way of Worship was a breach of the second Commandment Nay Mr. Burton one of the Witnesses said that to make a Law about Religion was to set up the Golden Calves or Nebuch adnezzar's Image Or if you will have another Phrase for it to chuse new Gods and then was war in the Gates Ib. p. 25. as an Independent Preacher said at Chester when they were about to chuse Lay-Elders But to be even with them the Presbyterians threw those Phrases back again in their faces and askt the five Brethren Is the Golden Calf of Independency and Democracy come out of it self without Aarons making it And in conclusion one Web as the same man tells us called the Scripture it self that Golden Calf and Brazen Antapologia p. 188. Serpent which set at variance King and Parliament and Kingdom against Kingdom and said Things would never do well till the Golden Calf and Brazen Serpènt were beaten in pieces * No wonder therefore
are from it N. C. What shall a man do then C. He must observe these Rules of that Good man 1. Keep all main Truths which are most plainly set down in the Word or by the Law of Nature ingraven on every mans heart 2. Believe every thing truly and necessarily gathered by an immediate consequence from the Text. 3. Follow evident examples fit for him either as a Christian or his special calling requires 4. Avoid that which is plainly forbidden or follows necessarily by an immediate consequence 5. Follow true Antiquity and the General practice of the Church of God in all ages where they have not erred from the evident Truth of God 6. If thou sufferest saith he let it be for known Truth and against known wickedness for which thou hast example in Gods word or of the holy Martyrs in Church story But beware of far fetcht consequences or of suffering for new devices and for things formerly unto all Ages unknown seem they never so holy and just unto man N. C. But what if the thing commanded seem to me a sin C. He answers some things sinfully commanded may be obeyed without sin as Joab obeyed David in numbring the People Secondly Consider how dost thou conceive it to be sin Is it simply so Shew me the prohibition else where no Law is there is no Transgression Or is it so accidentally that is in the abuse which may be removed or in respect of the Ignorance of the Lawfulness making thee to doubt and fear to offend Use all diligence for resolution And if it be not a known sin to thee certainly but only by probability consider whether probability of sinning may give thee a sufficient discharge for not obeying a plain Precept and to neglect necessary Duties otherwise both to God and man N. C. Would you have me do things while I am full of scruples whether I may or no Doth not the Scripture say whatsoever is not of Faith is sin Rom. 14.23 C. He takes no notice of that place But since you mention it I 'le give you an Answer not from my self Mr. John Geree Resolution of 10. Cases Licensed by Mr. Cranford 1644. whose judgment you value not much but from a Divine who we are told suffered much under the Bishops Things wherein doubts arise saith he are of a double Nature First Such as are meerly arbritary and at mine own dispose These may be left undone without scruple but not done with it because the inconvenience of Omission is but a little self-suffering Such are the things the Apostle speaks off forbearing the use of our Liberty in eating flesh or the like case If a man doubt whether he may do that or whether he may play at Tables or Cards the omission here being no more but only denying our selves a little content the doubt should make a man forbear But then there are other things that are not arbitrary but under a command as coming to the Sacrament obedience to the higher powers in things lawful Now if scruples arise about these and a man doubts he sins if he act and he also doubts he sins if he forbear it is neither clear that the thing to be done is sinful and so to be forborn nor perfectly clear that it is a duty and so to be done In this case he must weigh the Scales and where the Soul apprehends most weight of reason that way he must incline though the other scale be not altogether empty And this done after humble and diligent search with bewailing our infirmity that we are no more discerning will be accepted of God God puts not his people on necessity of sinning nor can our scruples dispense with his commands N. C. Sometime I think this is clear and solid Reason but many Friends think otherwise and I am loth to offend them by doing these things which our Governors require C. But consider First they may take offence when none is given Bern. Counsels of Peace and then the fault is their own and you not chargeable therewith Secondly the Question is whether they be offended in respect of what themselves know or but led by affection disliking of other mens dislike Intreat the former to let thee abound for such things in thy own sense and shew them that herein you may Brotherly disagree for the latter inform their judgment if they will yield to reason If not then consider Thirdly whether thou art bound to nourish up such men in their folly and to respect their partial affection being more carried away with an overweening of some mens persons than any thing at all with the right understanding of the cause And then Fourthly consider the power of the Magistrate and whether his Authority commanding do not take away the offence which might otherwise be given by a voluntary Act. And Lastly that a man should not stand more upon avoiding dislike in private persons than offence to publick Authority as I said before But alas as he saith at the end of his Book † Separatis Schism adjoyn'd to the other p. 161. Charity and such like graces are far to seek now adaies Men on all hands judge of things perversly This they will allow and that again humourously they will not like That which maybe justly done well without offence thereat will others be unjustly offended Things doubtful men take sinisterly yea they dare censure what they never saw condemn as ill what they knew not suspect where they have no cause gain-say where there ought to be no contradiction partial to themselves and rigorous towards others Authority will rule thus and so Subjects will obey with Exceptions Judgment from the word is not so much a Guide as will and affection in too many are made Masters These be ill dayes and contentious unhappy times in which men either will do that they will do of themselves or else fall to humour parties not simply receiving a love of the truth for the truths sake and so come to pertakings which doth but increase contention till all come to confusion except the Lord in his great mercy prevent the same N. C. And turn us all to a more moderate course and there keep us C. You have read the Book for those are the words that follow N.C. No. But I think there is much of truth in what he sayes and it had been well if his Counsels had been then followed C. Alas they who were chiefly concern'd in them were so far from following them that they took no farther notice of them than only to revile him that wrote them N. C. Methinks none should be so brutish C. It is as I tell you Mr. Ainsworth making an answer to this Book wholly omitted these Counsels of Peace save only that he once mention'd them with this haughty censure that perhaps the Author knew no more than Caiphas what he said Such men will not grant us able to say any good thing N. C. But his was an acknowledgment the