importance which is in all spirituall or ecclesiasticall things or causes as temporall What is this but an importune séeking of a knot in a rushe of no importance 〈◊〉 there any thing in these wordes added more than was â—…ully compreâ—… hended in the other or than King Henrie or King Eâ—…warde claymed and tooke on them 2. Pref. pag. 34. He maketh an other petit quarell at the fourme of the printed letter fol. 49. b. But it is aunswered in his bederoll of vntruthes where he likewise maketh a slurre aboute it Diuerse other petit quarels he dath aboute the distinction of the letter and for cyting the effect of certaine textes and not declaring them worde for worde fol. 50. b. which is aunswered Another quarell he pyketh at the Bishop for citing Emanuell Paleologus â–ª the Emperour of Greeâ—…e Aâ—…other for that he calleth him Christian Emperour 〈◊〉 these arâ—… aunswered in theyr proper places Another â—…or translating Suprema Anchora Supreme Anchore and not the last Anchore but this is likewyse aunswered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like petit quarels he piketh many which here for breuitie I ouerpasse And although there is none vnaunswered in their places yet aunswere them all with his owne wordes A man woulde here suppose master Stapleton that ye had some great and iust occasion thus grieuously to charge such a man as the Bishop is and that in print where all the worlde may read and consider it Pref. 17. VVhat an offence I beseech you hath the Bishop committed herein so great as woâ—…thie a dash with your pen. 〈◊〉 â–ª b. To these he adioyneth his tenth common place which himselfe calleth wordes of course saying these are but wordes of course 1. Pref. pag. 2. And therefore I vsed his owne terme His vvordes of course that is such as may be better returned on himselfe FIrst his beginning of his first Preface with the parable of the foolishe buylder Luc. 14. Whom he compareth the Bishop vnto for attempting this controuersie which he calleth the Castle of our profession and not able to go through therewith is therefore laughed to scorne saying beholde this man beganne to buylde but hee hath not beene able to make an ende That this may be truely recoursed on the Papists all the worlde beginneth to sée and to laugh them to scorne at the ouerthrowe that God hath made of their Nymrods Babilonicall Towre and howe the more they labour to repayre the decay thereof bycause they buylde not on Iesus Christ the Rocke but on the sandes of theyr Fathers traditions they can not therefore with all theyr force inquisitions deuises and attemptes bring their buylding to any good passe their groundworke iâ—… rotten their stuffe is naught and therfore master Stapletons Fortresse and all their Bulwarks are ouerthrowne spirituoris â—…ius with the spirite of his mouth that is with the worde of God. But ye will say sayth he of this parable they be but words of course Well preuented master Stapleton and in time who can rightly say or iudge any other of them sith they be so indéede as your selfe confesse wordes both of ordinarie course with you and all your side and what is sayde in the whole discourse of them but such course stuffe God wote as in recoursing them to you may be more fitly and truely applyed For ensample euen in the similitude ye alleage of the Apples and Grapes of Sodome and Gomorre Pref. 1. pag. 3. fayre to the eye without within nothing but stinking ashes A most liuely picture of the fruites of Poperie more glorious withoute in pompe riches wealth and might of the worlde More shining in outwarde holinesse counterfeyts myracles Iewish ceremonies and Pharisaical workes and in all other things more faire and delectable to the outward senses than euer were the Apples of Sodome or any thing else but within for sounde doctrine and the right worship of God consisting in spirit truth neyther the Apples of Sodome and Gomorre nor Sodome and Gomorre it selfe had euer the like stinch and infection And all those gay things come but to touche them with the touche stone the holye worde of God they smâ—…lder forthwith into Ashes or rather into nothing Uevobis hypocritae sayth Christ VVo bee to you hypocrites that make cleane that is outwarde c. The like recourse is made of all your glorious pamphlets and of this yours in hande there néede none other aunswere than to returne your owne words to your owne selfe thereon It beareth a countenance of truth of reason of learning but come to the triall and examination of it I finde a pestilent ranke of most shamefull vntruthes an vnsauery and vaine kinde of reasoning and last of all the whole to resolue into grosse ignorance Pag. 4. Likewise where he sayth Pag. 8. After all this strugling and wrastling agaynst the truth by you and your fellowes the truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and coÌ„firmed and your contrary doctrine is or ought to bee disgraced and brought in vtter discredite The aunswere to this is the same that 〈◊〉 made to the quarelling sophister If I say it the argument is true if thou sayst it it is false That which ye forge of a namelesse Protestant from one of your lying fellowes 〈◊〉 that A protestant of late dayes being pressed of a Catholike for extreeme lying and not being able to cleare himselfe sayde plainely and bluntly Quamdiu poterâ—… clades adferam latebunt quamdiu poterant valebunt apud vulgâ—… ista mendacia I will deface them and do some mischiefe to them as long as I am able my lyes shall lie hidde as long as may be and at the least the common people shall fall in a liking with them pag. 20. Aâ—… this is most likely to be your owne and your authors lie on the Protestants that at the least the common people might fall in a misliking with vs so is it euidently true if it â—…e recoursed on your owne side all the world can witnesse it hath bene your sayings and doings in very déede and noâ—…e for feare yâ—… should haue bene preuented obiect it in your Preface to vs It is you that with your crueltie and slaunders haue and do say Quamdin potero clades adferam I wil do mischiefe to them 〈◊〉 long as I can It is you that this long while haue slaundered and deuised horrible lies â–ª by those that haue professed the truth altering and chopping their articles saying they mainteyne such and such he resies as they neuer thought and haue sayde Latebunt quamdiâ—… poterunt valebunt apud vulgâ—… ista mendacia These lies shall lie hidden with the vulgare people so long as may be And so haue yée made the people in executing your crueltie beléeue that they did God good seruice So did the Phariseys and highe priestes abuse the 〈◊〉 and ignorance of the Iewishe people with such vntrue slaunders on Iesu Christ himselfe And to the better compassing hereof ye haue set forth lyes for truth and kept
false Knowledge therfore is not alwayes taken so precisely to be onely of true things but graunting you this precisenesse that knowledge is only taken to be true thingâ—… yet you do yll herein bicause ye take after your ordinarie custome Pro concesso controuersum that to be graunted that is in question whether your or our part be true or false héerin Yea why maye not we saye and that wyth greater reason that you take the truthe for falsehoode and falsehoode for truthe And so you nor any of your syde notwithstanding all youre great bragges and thys your clearkly booke haue anye true knowledge VVell maye ye saye as ye doo moste falsly and to youre poore wretched soule as well in this as in other poyntes moste dangerously beleue the contrarie but know it yee can not vnlesse it were true for knowledge is only of true things and as the Philosopher sayth Scire est per causas cognoscere Do ye know whose words al these be and yet ye sée how they serue our turne far better than yours M. Sta. bycause our cause resteth on the truth which is the infallible worde of God Deus est verax God is true yours is grounded on the doctrines of men Omnis auteÌ„ homo mendax but euery man is a lier And therfore is it lesse maruel sith ignorance and falsehood knowledge truth are al one that ye account somuch of ignorance make it to be the mother of deuotion that ye kepe down the people in ignoraÌ„ce which conspireth with falshood cannot abide knowledge that is linked with truth as ye haue loÌ„g kept the truth vnder a bushel so yet you caÌ„not abide that it shuld come to the knowlege of the people perceiuing the sith knowledge hath begon to spring in the world our cause withal as the truth hath florished yours hath drouped as that falshod wherfore your freÌ„â—… haue cried out vpoÌ„ al good letters séeing that their cause hathe had no greater enimie than knowledge is no greater maynteyner than ignoraunce Qui male agit odit lucem nec venit ad lucem ne opera eius arguantur He that doth euill sayth Christ hateth the lighte nor commeth to the light lest his workes should be reproued Next vnto this you note a rabblement of vntruthes but ye neither number them in youre Calendar but onely marke them with a starre in the forbead nor in youre replie say any more vnto them than this I will not nor tyme will serue to discusse them but why woulde youre will and your time serue you to chalenge them for vntruths and not serue you to discharge your chalenge and your owne truth in prouing them so to be but go to I see there is no remedie wée must tarie your leysure vntil that youre will come on you and that your tyme will serue you Many horrible erroures and superstitions of Monkerie The. 29. vntruth reprochefull and slaunderous This was so vntrue that all the world rang of it and the Papists themselues cried out theron Although ye were in the Tower in king Edwardes tyme that was not for any doubte of the supremacie for that ye still agnised but for other poynts of religion touching the ministration of the sacraments The. 30. vntruth This was not the cause of his imprisonment as shall appeare Here in his beadroll thoughe ye sée he denyeth it â—…latly yet in his counterblast where he toucheth the same he dare not be so impudent But saith as I vnderstande so that if hée be chalenged of rash dealing to affirme that for an vntruth that he stammereth in no will he saye looke my beadroll and ye shall fynde that I denyed it flatly and boldly withoute any stammering at the matter If againe this bolde flatnesse be proued a â—…atte lie â—…ushe will he saiâ—… I referred it in saying it shoulde appeare to my counterblast where I declare no further than I vnderstode by my freendes let it light on them if it be a lie thus cunningly Maister Stapleton hath handled the matter But a manifeste lye it is that he maketh howsoeuer he auonch or mollifie the same For this was a special cause of his imprisonment as those can tell that be yet liuing who were sente to him and to others to persuade them therein And by whome soeuer hée vnderstoode it it is but M. Stapletons and his misseinformers lye And where he would excuse the matter bicause he was examined in the matter of Iustification doth it follow therfore he was not in also for the matter of the sacrament being principally then in controuersie The Bishop only said be was in for other pointes of religion and namely touching the Sacrament but sée howe pretily M. Stapl. would bleare the readers eyes with quarelling at this half point of the sentence least the reader shoulde marke wherin the Bishop principally charged M. Feckenham that hee had confessed this article of supremacie all King Edwardes dayes and so knewe and acknowledged it then contrarie to his pretence of ignorance nowe therin And this digresseth not from the matter in hand But from this M. Stapleton slippeth in great silence and sayeth not a word therto but dalieth about other matters to finde the readers play And so by his owne rule confesseth by not denying the verye poynt in hande that M. Feckenham all king Edwards time though he were in the Tower yet euer hee agnized this title then that he refuseth nowe Wherevnto also you agreed and promised to professe and preache the same in open auditorie wheresoeuer you should be appoynted Wherevpon a right worshipfull Gentleman procured your deliuerance The. 31. vntruth slanderous He was not deliuered vpon any promise of recantation but to bee disputed withall Here M. Stapl. maketh muche adoe to conuince the Bishop of an vntruth and to make it seeme more probable he citeth diuers honourable and worshipfull to witnesse and al nothing to the purpose in hand excusing M. Feckenham of that wherwith no bodie charged him and answering nothyng but by silence consessing that that he was charged withal The bishop made no mention of any conference or disputation had with M. Feckenham after his departure oute of the tower but of that conference whiche was with him maister Moreman and maister Crispine whyle they were in the Tower. When at their owne suite to the councell they desired to haue some learned men with whom to conferre especially about the sacrifice of the Masse the ministration vnder bothe kyndes and the ministration vpon a table and not an altare And at this their sute Master Storie the Bishop then of Chichester and Maister Roberte Horne then parson of All Hallows in Breadsteat now bishop of Winchester were appointed by the honourable counsel to deals with them which they did by the space of a moneth at sundry tymes till that Master Feckenham did â–ª consent with them in all these thrée poyntes and so by maister Hobbies
degenerate from true godlinesse into a kinde of Pharisaical righteousnesse or rather into a shew of righteousnesse the which is more cleare than that it can be denyed And afterwarde complayning further of the Popishe fastes and other abuses he sayth His similes sunt plerique nostrum c. The most of our men are like vnto these he meaneth the Phareseys that iudge they keepe the lawes then when they follow externally the letter of the law when they do nothing lesse as appeareth by them that are ydle on the feast dayes and giue themselues to ryot neglecting those thinges that are perteyning to the Sabaoth Of those also that thinke they fast when they eate but once a day but so daintilye and they so glutte themselues that they feele no hunger all day long On the contrarie they iudge not him to fast but to transgresse the commaundement that compelled by pouertie necessitie or labour doth eate but sparingly often tymes a day And a little after These thinges doe flatly fight with the doctrine of christ For first it impugneth the fayth secondly charitie which two Christ did chiefly touch For this cause therefore he doeth so often blame them But if we marke our selues we shall see our selues to be euen the most culpable in the same thinges For commonly our righteousnesse is set most in outwarde thinges I damne not outwarde thinges for who hauing his right wittes woulde or coulde so do But I say they suffice not to saluation And as I sayd a litle before of the precept of keeping the Sabaoth two things are commaunded First the bodies rest secondly and principally the rest of the old man from his workes so say I now euery precept requireth two thinges that is to wete the outwarde worke the heart that principally which Christ declared inough Math. 5. But wee neglecting that which is principally exacted do stick onely in the externall things The same may I say of the ecclesiastical coÌ„stitutions they giue not holinesse but shewe it further it as for ensample true religion consisteth not in this that thou shouldst weare this or that habit but in this that if thou be dead to the world thou liue to god to this point outward things do also not a litle further thee so the true worship of god is if that in spirite and truth thou worship the father But hereto the externall worship doth stirre thee vp The same also is to be said of fasting coÌ„fession prayer c. which chiefly coÌ„sist in the hart But we neglecting these things which are most necessarie do please our selues about the outwarde things onely Thus sayth Ferus of your Popishe fast conteyning farre worse errors than Aerius not putting of difference but belike he shal be an Aerian to The third thing M. St. obiecteth to vs out of Aerius is that he sayd the sacrifice for the dead was fruitlesse If you were not also dead and fruitlesse for any trouth in you Master Stapleton ye would neuer make such a lying sacrifice of your Priestes lippes for shame As though Aerius were counted an Heretike for denying the propiciatorie sacrifice as ye call it of the Masse which ye say is auaylable and meritorious not onely for the liuing but also for the deade to deliuer them from the fayned paynes of purgatorie Whereas if he had affirmed at that time any such thing he should himself haue bene counted a straunge and new monstrous Heretike For as then nor long after neither your pardons and indulgences nor your trentals and Diriges neyther your satissactions nor your oblations neither your Masse of Requiem nor your soule Priestes to sing or say it were extant or deuised Errours in déede there were about the dead both then and long before and suche as after gaue occasion to these your gainfull deuises And if Aerius had denyed such errours or such errours had then bene practised he had béene no Heretike for denying them but rather such Heretikes as had mainteyned them Which the godly fathers did not but acknowledged and knew of no other place eyther of ioy or torment after this lyfe but onely of heauen and hell A thirde place sayth Saint Augustine that writeth of thys Aerius Penitus ignoramus VVe are vtterly ignorant of nor we can finde any such in the scriptures And yet must Saint Augustine néedes haue knowne and acknowledged such a thirde place of deliueraunce of the deade if he had ment of prayer and oblation for theyr deliuerance as you do meane But he flatly denieth the knowing of any such place it followeth then that wryting thus of Aerius either he was in the same Heresie denying any place for the dead to be holpen out of and wherto then should such praier serue or oblation for deliuering them out of a place of torment since there were no such place of torment so he confirmed Aerius his saying or else he must runne yet into a greater error and absurditie that the deade being in one of these two places heauen or hell they were there holpen by such prayers and oblations But for those that are in hell the scripture is flatte their worme shall neuer die their fire is vnquenchable and euerlasting the riche Glutton coulde not get from thence nor finde any neuer so little ease from his torments Ab inferno nulla est redemptio From hell there is no redemption And this knewe saint Augustine well ynough that sayth Duae quippe habitationes vna in igne aeterno altera in regno aeterno There are two dwellings the one in fire eternall the other in the Kingdome eternall And againe Scitote vos c. Knowe ye that when the soule is parted froÌ„ the bodie streightwayes either it is for his good deedes placed in paradise or else certainly for his sinnes cast headlong into hell fire choose nowe that you like either to reioyce euerlastingly with the Saints oâ—… without ende to be tormented with the wicked This was the foule and great errour of Origene Saint Augustine was not infected therewith nor any godly father of his time muche lesse Epiphanius that was an earnest condemner of Origene Although the Papists be not cleare of this errour that say they haue deliuered and can deliuer soules euen out of hell as they tell howe Pope Oregorie deliuered Traian an infidell Prince and howe his mother condemned and tormented in hell fire for hir whoordome was deliuered from thence by him through a trentall of Masses Nowe as for the soules that on the other side be in heauen the other place I thinke Saint Augustine was neuer so farre ouershotte to say or thinke that such prayers coulde ease or deliuer them from paynes that were in the ioyes of heauen What then remayneth to thinke of saint August noting Aerius of Heresie herein We shall the better perceyue this if we marke the errours that many of the Grecians and Egiptians had
This worthie Champion ibid. Of his noble worke and of his noble holy martyr ibid. This worthie article ibid. Like to capitaine Kets tree of reformation ibid. Ye make your reckoning without your hoste 68. a. Your reformation or rather deformation 68 b. Master Hornes foolish figuratiue diuinitie 69. a. The great weight of so mightie a proufe 69. b. Master Horne of his great gentlenesse 69. b. These mē make a very VVelshmans hose of Gods word 70. a So aptly and truly you alleage you doctors 73. b. This good Antiquarie and Chronographer 76. b. Gayly and iolilie triumpheth 77. a. Verie good stuffe as good pardie as master Hornes owne booke and as clerkely and as faythfully handled 77. a. O what a craftie Cooper smooth Ioiner is M. Horne 77. b. Your handsome holy dealing 78. a. You are worthie exceeding thankes 78. a. A'iolie marginall note 78. a. O more than childishe folly 78. a. That craftie Cooper ibid. As wise as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a saddle for as well doth a saddle fit a Cowe 78. b. Such beggerly shifts ibid. Ye haue demeaned your selfe so clerkly and skilfully ibid. Such a personage as ye counterfait 80. a. This blessed Martyr ibid. Ye are a very poore silly Clarke ibid. M. Foxe will not suffer ye to walke post alone ibid. That I may a little roll in your rayling rhetoricke ibid. Your dearlings the Grecians 80. b. Seeing ye deale so freely and so liberally 81. a. Ye haue iuggled in one 82. a. Ye haue so craftily conueyed your galles 82. a. Your darke sconce a sconce of dimme light 82. a. The new pretended clergie the pretended Bishops 84. a. To all this and all other his frumpes and scoffes he may be aunswered with his owne wordes Modestia vestra M Horne not a sit omnibus hominibus Let your modestie M. Stapleton be knowne to all men 435. b. His owne obiection of bragging This is but an impudent facing and bragging 4. a. His fourth common place of bragging In his first Preface NOt beeing able to alleage any authour that maketh not for vs pag. 7. Doe what ye can c. 15. You haue in this replie a iust and a full defence 22. I haue replyed throughout 22. I haue not omitted anie one part or parcell 22. I haue aunswered the whole 22. I wishe that the most honourable c. would commaund you to proue it so to the worlde 22. I haue here replied to all and euerie part 22. If truth be on your side ye haue no cause to sticke hereat ▪ c. go through therefore as you haue begonne c. if ye thinke your foundation good c. go through I say c. if ye now draw backe men will laugh you to scorne 23. The dealing of the Catholike writers is so vpright that suche small occasions must be piked c. else against their dealings haue ye nothing to say 18. Your cause I assure you will come forth starke naked feeble and miserable 19. After all this strugling and wrastling agaynst the truth by you and your fellowes master Iewell and the rest the truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and confirmed and your contrarie doctrine is or ought to bee disgraced and brought in vtter discredite 8. In the seconde preface I VVas fully purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially master Iewel for a season to rest me and to stande at mine owne defence if any woulde charge me 24. I haue shaped to the whole booke a whole and full Replie wherein I rather feare I haue sayd to much than to litle 25. Thy religion is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede 27. These be such absurdities as euery man of meane consideration seeth and abhorreth 28. The primacie of the Bishop of Rome is euidently here proued 28. Master Hornes whole aunswere is but as it were a vayne blast 29. The sea Apostolike is the fountaine and welspring of all vnitie in the Catholike faith 33. Neither shall we euer finde any cause of good and sufficient contentation till we returne thither 35. In the answere to the Bishops Preface AS I assuredly vnderstande that the reuerende father my Lorde Abbate of VVestminster fol. 1. a. But this may I boldly say and I doubt nothing to proue it that in all his booke there is not as much as one worde of Scripture one Doctor one Councell general or prouincial not the practise of any one countrey throughout the world counted Catholike that maketh for such kinde of regimēt as master Horne auoucheth nor any one maner of proufe that hath any weight or pith in the world to perswade I will not say master Feckenham but any other of much lesse wit learning and experience 3. a. I say master Horne commeth not once nighe the principall matter in question 3. a. I say further in case we remoue and sequester all other proufes on our side that M. Horne shall by the verie same fathers Councels and other authorities by himselfe producted so be ouerthrowne in the chief and capitall question vnto the which he cōmeth not nigh as a mā might say by 1000. miles that his own cōpany may haue iust cause to feare c. 3. a I say and master Feckenham wil also say that euen M. Horne himselfe retreateth so farre backe c. 3. b. The premisses then being true and of our side abundantly proued and better to be proued as occasion shall serue as nothing can effectually be brought against them 4. a. Ye haue not no nor ye can not proue any such matters 4. b. In the first booke I Must be so bolde by your leaue as plainlie and bluntlie to go to worke with you as I haue done before with master Grindall and master Iewell 7. b. The Queene cannot make you Lord Bishop of VVinchester as I haue otherwhere sufficiently proued in the Fortresse of of our first faith annexed to venerable Bede 8. a. Luther and Caluine and other being therewith pressed were so messhed and bewrapped therein that they could not in this world wite what to say thereto answering this that they wist nere what nor at what point to holde them 8. a. The Protestants wonderfully troubled about the question of the continuall succession of Bishops 8. a. VVhat haue ye to iustifie your cause 8. b. Master Horne can not defende and maintaine his herisies nor himselfe to be a Bishop by anie law of the realme 9. a. The Catholikes not suffered to replie least their aduersaries weakenesse should as it would haue done in deede and now daylie doth God bee praysed euidently and openly haue beene disciphered and disclosed 13. a. I dare vndertake that not onely master Feckenham but manie mo that nowe refuse shall moste gladly take the saide othe 31. a. VVhat should I reason further with this man. 32. b. Notwithstanding all your great bragges and this your clerkly booke ye knowe not nor neuer shall know but that the
and with diffinct letter which he doth not here but Paraphrastically expoundeth the texte Wherein if he doe wreste the meaning of saint Paule ye shoulde hardly note that for an vntruthe â–ª S. Paule there nameth not religion that is true but that this worde godlynesse which saint Paule nameth comprehendeth not religion as the Byshop saythe that is your owne vntruthe But this matter is debated more at large in the answere to your Counterblast chap. 18. diuis â–ª 22. where is shewed bothe by the Fathers and by your owne chiefe writers that sainte Paule by this word godlynesse meant true religion Here ye set another blasing starre vpon these words that the Byshop sayth This woulde be noted with good aduisement that Sainte Paule himselfe sheweth playnely prosperitie amongste Gods people and true religion to be the benefites and fruites in generall that by Gods ordinance springeth from the rule and gouernement of Kings and Magistrats vnto the weale of the people This would be noted say you howe ye racke saint Paule he nameth not religion at all he dothe not attribute religion to the rule and gouernment of the ciuill Magistrat but peace and tranquillitie only in godlynesse Ye durst not note this for an vntruth M. Stapleton but for a racking or wresting althoughe this is but your peeuish difference If he racke saint Paules meaning he telleth an vntruth of saint Paule although this dothe cleare the B. of racking also that ye durste not playnely note and score it vp for an vntruth yet as the B. saying is most true so it nothing swarueth from the meaning of sainte Paule For aâ—… the B. proueth by Chrysostome that by this worde godlynesse is meant religion and the inwarde peace of the mynde and conscience and not only the outward peace of the body So Saint Paule maketh these to bee the benefites fruites and endes that by Gods ordinaunce wee receyue from the rule and gouernement of kings and magistrates in whiche saying S. Paule is not racked but it is you M. Stapleton that racke Saint Paule â–ª for he sayth not tranquillitie and peace only in godlinesse yâ—… may put your only in your pursse Saint Paule sayth in godlinesse and purenesse The whiche knot and fastening togither of religion and prosperitie incoÌ„mon weales the most Christian and godly Emperours Theodosius Ualentinianus did wisely foresee The. 68. vntruthe They sawe no suche confounding of the two functions spirituall and temporall as you imagine This vntruth is directed against the Byshops imagination ye go verie neare the B. M. Stapleton that where hée sayth no suche wordes as you chalenge ye will créepe into his heart and fetche iâ—… from thence ye haue a goodeye sighte that can see what the B. imagineth But wisdome wil think this to bée a fonde toy of your own idle imagination for the Byshops words import no such confusion as ye talke of hée telleth howe godlynesse and prosperiâ—…e are lincked togither in common weales so that the one cannot be well without the other that the Prince is the knitting togither of both these and this he saythe the Emperours sawe and that they sawâ—… it he bringeth good proufe theire own manifest words set downe at large eyther proue this an vntruth M. Sta. or else the B. hath made nene it is but your vntrue sclaunder fonde imagination I haue proued c. That such like gouernment in Churche causes as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir dothe of duetie belong vnto ciuill magistrates The. 69. vntruth Such like gouernement you haue not nor euer shall be able to proue The B. saith that in this first booke he hath hitherto proued it by the scriptures the Doctours and some Emperoures This you denie that he hath done and set him a long day to proue it Nowe the truth or vntruth of this the reader must hang in suspence til be haue read the prâ—…s ouer what they bee and then in the name of God lette himiudge whether the vntruthe lyghte on the Byshoppe or on Master Stapleton In the meane season â—…ytherto the Reader maye haue a taste what shame is in this impudent mannes â—…ace what truthe in his cause and what folly in hâ—…s heade thus to the wide worlde to score and sette out suche thinges for vntruthes as beeing neuer so little rypped vp are moste apparante truthes and to make suche a tryumphante gambolde and pyping vp of a round as hee doth thereon But leâ—…te hym daunce his â—…yll and nicke vp still on the score in the ende hée will runne so farre in the lashe that no man will credite a worde of his mouthe MeÌ„daci non crâ—…ditur ne iurato quidem A lyer is not beleeued no thoughe he svveare ⧠To Master Stapletons first Preface OR euer Master Stap â–ª enter into his counterblast he prefixeth two Prefaces the first to the B. the second to the Reader The first bicause it is only a packet trussed vp of all such accusations as he layeth to the Bishops charge through out his whole counterblast and so is to be aunswered in their proper places I minde not therefore to follow Master Stapletons vaine that saith Decies repeâ—…ta placebunt to spende the time and trouble the Reader more than néedes in answering to them here that are to be answered in their places seuerally and are already many of them noted before in his Common places The effect and conclusion of this preface in the ende is this That the Bishop must néedes make a full reioynder A full reioynder I say saith he and perfect to all and euery parte of this reply and put in Master Stapletonâ—… whole answere not omitting any one line or sentence either of the text or of the margine or els the truth is not on the Bishops side or els he waÌ„teth learnyng or els he buildeth on no good fundation nor the cause he groundeth on is sure or els all men vvill laugh him to scorne for his faire piece of vvorke so shamefully broken of or els M. Feckenhams scruples are most learned and inuincible reasons or els the othe can not be takeÌ„ with out manifest periurie or els Master Horne must retract his most haighnouse heresies or els which I should haue set before all that the B. hath saide is but vvoordes of course to saue his poore honestie and but waltham talke or els as he obiecteth foolishnesse to the B. so M. Stapleton may proue as wise as walthams calfe and thus as he saith to the B. for this time I take my leaue of you Vale resipisce so may I for this your first Preface take my leaue of you Master Stapleton Uale sape ⧠To Master Stapletons seconde Preface THe seconde Preface is directed to the Reader and is coÌ„triued in thrée partes The first sheweth the reasons why he tooke vppon him to answere the Bishop The second how by what order he procéedeth in his answere The thirde is an earnest admonition
ye can be no Prelate of the Garter beeing no Prelate at all that beeing a prerogatiue appropriate to the Prelate and B. of VVinchester Soft M. St. if ye be so playne blunt a man as ye pretrÌ„d ne sutor vltra crepâ—…da hew not tâ—… hye least chips fall in your eye blunder not so rudely with princes must the Q. Maiestie beare with you to bicause you must needs go bluntly to worke ye presume to determine what the Q. highnes may do She can make him â—… but she can not make him L. B. of VV. And why so M. St considering he is not Lorde but in respecte of some baronage and temporalties belonging and annexed to the See of VVinchester Ergâ—… then ye graunt him to be Lorde B. by your owne words to whom the Q. highnesse as you graunt she may in respect of the temporalties and baronies belonging therto hath graunted and giuen him them Wherby she hath made him Lord except ye wil denie that hir highnesse authoritie which euen al your popish bishops did receiue before at hir graces progenitors hands neither the baronies and temporalties onely wheâ—…by they were named Lords but their inuestiture also wherby they were Byshops at the Princes handes But see stil how bluntly ye go to worke against your self for hast to remoue this title of Lord from the B. of W. ye ouerturn the glory of your own prelats For if this your rule be true that he is not called Lord but in respect of some baronies temporalties belonging and annexed to the See how many Cardinals Bishops Suffraganes Abbots Priors euen in Italie that haue neither baronies nor muche temporalties should léese their title of Lorde honour thinke you all these will be pleased with this your rule We must beare with you there is no remedie and well may M. Feck of friendship the B. of pitie beare with you also the Quéenes maiestie of hir gracious clemencie beareth with your saucie bluntnesse But assure your selfe and ye were as blunt playne as euer were your Marcolphus those Italian prelates if ye stayne their honour will neuer beare with you one iot And I rede you beware this bluntnesse for they can do much with your holy father the Pope except ye be so blunt ye care not for him neither But deale with them as ye may ye are blunt inoughe in your owne conceite for the finest of them all Let vs sée what reasons moueth you to be so blunt with the B. He is not L. Byshop of VVin. nor Prelate of the Garter Why so bicause he is no B. or Prelate at all How proue ye that he is an vsurper he is an intruder he is called therto by no lawfull vocation nor canonicall consecration c. he is no true B. c. his vocation is direct contrarie to the canons and constitutions of the Churche and to the vniuersall custome and maner heretofore vsed and practised not onely in Englande but also in all other Catholike countreys and Churches deliuered to vs from hande to hande from age to age euen from the first graâ—…fing and planting of the fayth especially in Englande Here are many blunt playne words in déede M. St. and many great crakes but here is no proofe of any do not think ye muste still be thus borne withall your to muche presuming of eche mans pacience to beare with your rudenesse will hazarde your credite to farre excepte ye alledge some reason of your sayings Let vs heare therefore what proues ye bring For the which I referre me say you to all autentike and auncient â–ª recordes as well of Englande as of other Nations concerning the ordinary succession of Bishops namely in the foresayde Sea of VVinchester for there was not no not one in that Sea that did not acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome and that was not confirmed by the same vntil the late time of M. Poynet who otherwise also was an vsurper the true B. then liuing and by no lawfull or ecclesiasticall order remoued or depriued Ye are therefore the first B. of this sewt and race and so consequently no B. at al. As not able to shew to whom ye did ordinarily succede and any good or customable either vocation or coÌ„secration VVhich point being necessarily required in a B. and in your Apostles Luther and Caluin other lacking as I haue otherwhere sufficieÌ„tly proued though you by depesilence thinke it more wisdome vtterly to desâ—…emble than once to answere they being therwith pressed were so messhed and bewrapped therein that they coulde not in this worlde witte what to say thereto answearing this and that they wiste neare what nor at what poynt to holde them yea Beza was fayne at the last assemblie at Poysie with silence to confesse the inuincible truth Setting aside these vaine crakes manifest lying slaunders which I referre to your common places M. St. I will answeare onely to your inuincible argument Which standeth vpon your common bragge of succession Your argument is this ye succeede no Bishop of VVinchester Ergo ye are no Bishop of VVincester I answere First if he meane succession of the person in the roome your antecedent is euident false He succeded the persons of Popishe Bishops in the same roome And the consequent followeth not For then the first Bishop of that Sea was no B. bicause he succeded none but was the first therâ—…f And if the first was none then the second was none and so there was neuer any at all If ye meane sucession of the doctrine and the Apostles rules then neyther Bishoppe Gardiner whom ye call the true B. nor any popishe Bishops haue succession but digression and defection from them And our Bishoppes haue the true succession that is to say followe the doctrine and orders of the Apostles prescribed in the worde of god for a Bishops office But howe do ye proue your antecedent Of all the Bishops not onely in Englande but in other nations namely in the Sea of VVinchester From hand to hand from age to age euen from the first grafting and planting of the fayth in Englande not one of them all no not one that did not acknowledge the supremacie of the sea of Rome and that was not confirmed by the same But you do not acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome nor are confirmed by the same Ergo ye are the first Bishop of this sewt and race and so consequently no bishop at all as not able to shew to whome ye did ordinarily succeede or any good and customable eyther vocation or consecration This argument M. Stapleton is of a newe sewt and race it succedeth neither good nor customable moode or figure and therfore can make no good successe Howbeit lâ—…t vs sée the partes of it The minor we graunt as euident on the Bishops part For the maior we must put you to your proufe We affirme it to conteyne many euident falshoodes For proufe hereof
Dominus Iesus reueâ—…auit cuidam deuoto poterit venire in breui ad amorem timorem perfectum coelestium By this meanes as the Lord Iesus reuealed to a certayne deuoute man he might in shorte tyme come to a perfecte loue and feare of heauenly things But in the meane time the people sticking in visible and earthly thinges fell without all feare or loue of Gods truthe euen to a perfection of Idolatrie Beléeuing too muche in such faygned reuelations and reiecting the word of God wherein Christ hath not to a certayne deuoute man but to all the worlde reuealed the expresse will of his heauenly father in playne words forbidding the worshippe of all Images yea of all creatures as heathen and wicked Idolatrie But ye still crye that your Images are not Idols as the heathens Images were and therefore your worshippe of them is not Idolatrie as was theirs I omitte the examining of thys sequele M. Stapl. And will onely as nowe denye the antecedent The which thoughe other more at large haue improued and I haue somewhat touched it before yet bicause at the very instant of the writing hereof there came to my hands a paper by a certen friend of youres whome I spare to name wherein was conteyned as he affirmed suche reasons as were vnanswerable to proue that your Images are nothing like the Heathen Idols Although perusing the same by Doctor Saunders foresayde booke of Images it séemeth to be drawen from his collections of the differences betwéene Idols and Images and so by some other already may be full answered yet I thought it not amisse euen héere to set it downe and sée by this whiche already is spoken howe easily or hardly it is to be answered vnto The differences betweene the Idols of the Gentiles and our Images sayth this Papistes paper First some kinde of Idols had no truthe at all in nature but were feigned monsters all our Images haue that essentiall truthe extant in the world which they represent I answere first for some of their Idols ye say truth Secondly for all your Images ye make a loude lye As for ensample the Image of S. Sunday pictured like a man with all kinde of 〈◊〉 about him as though he had bene Iohn of all craftes Wheras for the béeing of any suche man there was no suche essentiall truth at all extant in the worlde that it represented And yet for your Images this is a generall rule that you must most firmly beléeue Quod qualem imaginem vides ad extra oculo corporali â—…lem Christus habet similitudinem aed infra secundum esse diuinale Ideale That what maner of Image thou seest outwarde with thy corporal eye Christ hath the same similitude inwarde according to his diuine beeing and conceyued forme And the like he sayth of the Uirgin â—…deò habeatur Imago Mariae virginis pulchra quoniam turpis Imago teste Maximo non est vera Imago Mariae sed falsa Cum ipsa Maria sit totius pulchritudinis decoris amoris regina domina Let a fayre Image be had of the virgin Mary bicause a foule Image as Maximus witnesseth is not the true Image of Mary but a false Image sith Mary is the Queene and Lady of fayrenesse comlynesse and loue And M. Saunders concluding this poynt saythe For looke what proportion is betweene thing and thing the same proportion is betweene signe and signe of those things By which rule of leueling the Image according to the essential truth extant in the worlde of the partie represented by the Image as many other Saincts yea Christes and the blessed Uirgins maye be proued Idols being pictured amisse and swaruing from their truth represented so by no meanes can ye defende your consecrate cake your three faced picture of God the father your winged and feathered Aungels your pictures of Saint Sauiour and Saint Sunday from being manifest Idols And therefore betweene these some Images of yours and those some Idols of theirs there is no difference in this first point Secondly all their Idols were without truth concerning fayth and religion All our Images conteyne such a truth as belongeth to Christes fayth and religion I answere No Images belong to the truth of Christes fayth religion As for religion all the religion that Christ ordeyned was without Images Images in diuerse places are forbidden to be worshipped Custodiâ—…e vos à simulacâ—…ris Kepe your selues from Images And they are in no place bidden to be worshipped As for fayth Fides ex auditu auditus auteÌ„ per verbum dei Faith coÌ„meth by hearing hearing by the worde of God. But the worship of Images is without the word of god yea as is alreadie shewed by your schoolemen it is but of the Churches ordinaÌ„ce but no faith can be with out Gods worde the worship then of Images is without the truth of Christs faith religion so likewise in this 2. point they differ not from the worship of the heathen Idols Thirdly sacrifice was done to their Idols not so to oure Images but onely to God. I answere first in that ye made such sacrifice to God as God neuer ordeyned and made more dayly renuing of sacrifices to him not contented with the only sacrifice that he made once for all therein ye committed plaine Idolatrie and your massing sacrifice was the Idoll Secondly where ye say ye made sacrifice onely to God I haue proued alreadie in plaine confession of your selues that ye made sacrifice to the blessed virgin also Thirdly that ye say they made sacrifice to their Idols so do not you If sacrifice bée the worship of Latria then so doe you by your owne tales but what matter maketh this wheÌ„ ye sacrificed to them of whome the Images were the pictures and what differed that from the Heathens doing that sacrificed to Iupiter before the Image of Iupiter or honored him by sacrifice in his Image whiche thinges you did also and therefore without any difference héerein bothe theirs and your Images are Idols Fourthly their Images belonged many times to very wicked men our Images which we worship belong alwayes to blessed Saincts Not alwayes M. St. to blessed Saincts except ye iumble God his Saincts togither Yea some of those that ye worship for blessed Saincts are doubted of your selues to be daÌ„ned spirites belike they were little better than wicked meÌ„ But how blessed saincts some of theÌ„ were whoÌ„ ye worshipped read eueÌ„ your own writer sir Thomas Mores works of Images pilgrimages ye shall sée little difference betwéene theirs yours except yours were the worsse euen in that simulata sanctitas est duplex iniquita Their counterfeit sainctship made them double hypocrites Fourthly some of the Gentils professed theÌ„selues to adore the vnsensible wood and stone we do not professe or teache any such thing but rather the contrarie I answere if some of the Gentiles did teach this among them
Generall assemblies at your Trident Councell as ye bragge vpon If â—…e meane for the frée libertie and order of it it was not onely Nationall of Italians in Italy as the Donatistes was of Aphricans in Aphrica but also more partiall violent and nothing but tongtyed bondage and compulsion farre worse than was the Donatistes Eightly say you The Donatistes sayde that all the world was in an Apostacie before the comming of their Apostle Donatus and is not Luther the same man to you that Donatus was to them We estéeme Luther as a notable organ of God to detect your falshoods and open his truth although we graunte he were not without his infirmities but what dothe that excuse your apostacie or argue him to be a Donatist Yea though he had sayd such words now as then Donatus falsly sayde Mâ—…ght not an vniuersall apostacie haue bene since or be nowe bicause there was none suche then and yet Luther charged not al the world but al your popish Church with this Apostacie And what dothe he therein that is not manifest what said he that the Apostle S. Paule foresayde not there should come a defection before the coÌ„ming of christ what said he that eueÌ„ at your last Trident councel that ye craked on last the Frenche Legate did not openly say to your Prelates faces Verily we must euen of necessitie coÌ„fesse this quoth he whether it hath bene perchauÌ„ce by mans infirmitie or by some negligeÌ„ce of the Prelats of the church or else by their preposterous godlinesse if I should name no greeuouser thing that there hath crept into the Church very many things worthy to be abolished abrogated or restrayned Yea what saide he that euen your Pope hath not confessed VVe know saith Pope Adrian to the Princes of Germanie in his Cpistle wherin he chiefly inueigheth agaynst Luther that euen in this holy seate many abhominable things there haue bene already now certayne yeres abuses in spirituall matters excesses in coÌ„maundements to conclude all things haue bene changed into peruersitie not it is maruell if the sicknes haue descended froÌ„ the head into the members from the chief byshops into the inferiour Prelates all we that is to say the eccl â–ª Prelates haue erred euery one in his owne wayes nor there hath bene any this long while the which dyd good no not one This general apostacie loe your owne Pope confesseth both for him selfe for his predecessors for al other Prelates and Priests vnder him and for al the Church besides And weye these words wel M. St. for they serue agaynst you in many matters touched before chiefly whether the Pope al his Prelates yea al the visible state of the Church may erre or no. But ye were best make this Pope a Donatist too To the author of the harboroughe ye are answered by other as I heare say And it is but your péeuishe quarell Ninthly say you The Donatists being charged and pressed to shew the beginning and continuance of their doctrine and the ordinarie succession of their Bishops were so encombred that they coulde neuer make any conuenient aunswere And are not you I pray you with your fellowes Protestant Bishops fast in the same myre If not aunswere then to my third demaunde in the fortresse annexed to Sainct Bede This is Satis proimperio More than inough for your authoritie Master Stapleton to commaunde our Bishops to aunswere your vaine demaundes and pelting bookes or else they must be Donatists But euen so played the Donatists with the godly Bishops then as you play now with ours Your humour is all on vaine glorie to set oute and vaunt your owne workes But it is a signe ye lacke good neighbours at Louaine For one of them not your selfe should haue commended to vs your Demaundes Fortresses and Translations But your selfe must be faine I sée to put vs in minde of them for your brethren séeke theyr owne glorie likewise in their writings And why then shoulde not you séeke yours as well as they But for my part as I haue not youre noble Fortresse so I thinke your Demaunde be not worthie the séeking for much lesse the aunswering I pray you pardon me if I thinke amisse for I measure it by many other Demaunds of this your Counterblast As for the beginning of our doctrine is alreadie shewed euen he that is the beginning the ending the Alpha and Omega he began our doctrine and hath euer continued and preserued it We say with Chrysostome as is before sayd Ad montes Let vs flee to the mountaines that is to the scripture we say with Saint Cyprian Ad fontein Let vs go to the fountaine that is to the Scripture we say with the Prophetes Ad legem testimentum To the lawe and testimonie that is to the Scripture we say with him that is the beginning himselfe venite ad 〈◊〉 come vnto me and we admit onely that Quod suit ab initio reiecting that doctrine of which we may say Non suit sic ab initio It was not so at the beginning this ye say the Donatistes being charged and pressed could not do but we shewe you here the very beginning of all our doctrine Now if a man should demaunde of you to shew the beginning of all your doctrines aske you as Christ teacheth vs to demaunde of you the originals is it of God or is it of men then are you for a great many of them bemyred fast with the Donatistes and can not tell how they came vp sauing that they crept in by custome and many retayned of the old superstitions of the Pagans little or nothing turquesed but none of them al came vp otherwise than by meÌ„ none were set foorth of God in his holy word And so againe ye are Donatists or worse than they and the worse in that as the French Kings Embassadour aforesaide tolde your Trident Fathers ye hold fast with tooth nayle all things that ye haue receiued of long custome But the old fathers tell you from whom ye father your customes We must not follow the customes of man but the truth of God. Yea your old Popes them selues Felix Gregory Nicholas Leo can tell you that all customes should giue place to the Scriptures for Christe said not he was custome but the way the truth and the life That we should not goe one Iote from the Apostles institutions That such ill customes are no lesse to be auoided than a pestilent infection which except it be taken out the soner the wicked will take holde of it as dutie of priuileges And that such transgressions and presumptions being not forthwith suppressed will be reuerenced for lawes and celebrated like priuileges for euer Here is the comming vp and beginning of the most of your doctrines and therefore what hable ye of your Bishops since your Bishops them selues say thus of your long customes beginning and continuance of them As for the
in déede follow M. Sta. but it doth not alwayes followe â–ª A man may refuse manifest proufes of the old Testament and yet graunt such things besides that he may be concluded yea by his owne graunt â–ª And so is M. Feckenham here concluded as graunting the newe Testament the Councels and Fathers For since al these alleage he proufes of the old Testament he is forced by conclusioÌ„ of necessarie consequence to graunt also to the old Testament Except he be as peeuish as the Donatistes that granted thus much also and yet refused the manifest proufes and examples of the old Testament Although their own péeuishnesse conuinced theÌ„ but still they stoode on the bare wordes as you do and refused inclusiue proufes followed they neuer so necessarily And so did your selfe before require the Bare title of this supremacie to be shewed in the exaÌ„ples of the old Testament elâ—… you reiect the exaÌ„ples agrée they neuer so much in matter But now contrary ye say M. Feckenham doth allow and affirme the proufes of the old Testament bicause they may be included in those pointes that he alleageth but he would be loath they should be included as thankes be to God they be and so Uolens uolens beyonde his expectation is enforced with them But what is this to excuse him more thaÌ„ the Donatists if he had not of set purpose slonke from the manifest proufe examples of the old Testament for otherwise he might as soone haue expresly named the old Testament as he expresly named the new And so should he haue gone directly simply to worke not indirectly with a Circumquaque haue referred the old Testament to such inclusions as you here would shake off the matter withall chiefly since the old Testament hauing no included but expresse proufes is so expresly vrged of vs And yet if he would haue included the old Testament as you say vnder the name of the new Testament why specifieth he the one so plaine not the other at all if he did it for breuitie he might most briefly haue saide the Scriptures which worde had comprehended included both so had he shewed that he allowed the proufes of the old Testament also Ha M. Stapl. Ueritas non querit angulos The truth seekes no inclusiue corners goe plainly man to worke for very shame For yet for all your inclusions here to colour the matter in other places where this is not layde vnto your charge both your selfe and M. Dorman quite excludeth the examples of the old Testament from the new as not fit paterns for Princes to followe Doing herein what pretences so euer you here include euen as M. Feckenham dothe and the Donatistes did before And that Master Feckenham did no other but euen of purpose conceale the old Testamentes examples as foreseing that they made against him I will aske no better witnesse than your owne selfe Master Stapleton that by all these couerte inclusions go aboute to excuse him But when ye can not make any good excuse in conclusion yea in your next wordes ye bewray all the matter ye could hold it no lenger for your life blabbe it wist and out it must And surely say you wise men vse not greatly to shew that maketh against them but most for them Holde your hande from the booke M. St. ye neuer saide truer worde in all your life Ye hitte the pricke there in déede and tell the very cause why he concealed the name of the old Testament and shewed it not in his large and ample offer Bicause say you wise men surely vse not greatly to shew that maketh against them but most for them but M. Feckenham surely is a wise man Ergo he sheweth not in his offer the name of the old Testament bicause the proufes thereof make against him but onely put the name of the new Testament bicause he thought that made moste for him True Master Stapl. thus do the children of this world beyng wiser in their generations than the childreÌ„ of light not shewe â–ª as ye say but conceale the truthe of God bicause they sée it maketh agaynst them But herein M. St. for all your iolie witte and wisedome that ye vaunte vppon so often your wisdome ouershot it selfe Surely ye did not like one of these wise men but rather like one of the wise men of Gotham God turning your wisedome into folly that confesse those examples and proufes to make against M. Feckenham or at least wise that he so feared and therefore he sheweth not the name of the old Testament but concealeth it And thus while your drift is to proue that he shifteth not off those proufes and examples you confesse that he of very purpose not minding as ye saide before to include them but to exclude them leaueth them out and sheweth them not but shifteth them of and that of a shamefull purpose only bicause they make against him Where if he had any sparke of truth and conscience he would not hide that in Gods worde that maketh against him But perceyuing that those prouses make against him would withall perceiue him self to be in a manifest errour and neuer let worldly wisedome so ouercome him that he should be ashamed openly to confesse that he striueth against the truth And you M. Stapleton had ye any grace confessing the truth to be against him except ye be a very Manichee that set the old Testament against the newe would perceyue that if the old were against him then the newe were also against him and would euen here hurle away the penne that should defende such a shifter off and hider of the truthe against your conscience So farre would ye be from this impudencie to write that he affirmeth and comprehendeth that which of wisedome as ye call it he purposely concealeth and that he alloweth that which he hides as making against him Whiche is no point of wisedome M. Stapleton but rather of starke follie and méere contradiction to it selfe and to all your former excuses And thus speaking of wise men to shewe your selfe in the number ye speake against him whome ye are hyred and labour to defende ye speake against your selfe yea against your cause and all So doth God make them shew their owne shame that wittingly will be hyred with Balaam to resist his open truth Confusi sunt sapientes c. The wise men are confounded sayth the Lord they shal be astonied and taken for lo they haue cast out the word of the Lorde what wisdome can be among them And so hath God here infatuate M. St. that wheÌ„ he hath bewrayed the very cause why M. Feck shewed not in his offer the name of the old TestameÌ„t so wel as of the new to be bicause he thought it made agaynst him therefore did like a wise man to leaue it out he concludeth most foâ—…dly euen the quite contrarie VVherfore sayth he it is incredible that M. Feck should once imagine any
in these wordes following vnto Pilate after he had denied his kingdome to be of this world when Pilate replyed Arte thou then a King he answered thou saist that I am a king Ne tamen c. vvhiche notvvithstanding saithe Ferus least Pilate should be more offended vvith the name of a King Christe proceedeth to declare his kingdome more plainely as thoughe he shoulde say Pilate vnderstande thou this for troth and cast out of thy mynde all suspition of a vvorldly kingdome or of tyrannie This is the case I vvill not at al denie my spiritual kingdome vvhether it be before thee or before Caesar. Onely knovve thou this thing that it is not my purpose to inuade any man vvith Armes or after the manner of other Kings to raigne pompously but to erecte and establishe in earth the Diuine truth To this purpose vvas I born â–ª and to this purpose came I into the vvorlde that I might beare vvitnesse to the truth Therfore I say came I therfore was I borne not to fight with the svvorde but that I might teach and declare the truth and the Gospell vvhiche is the povver of God to saluation to all that beleeue And as I declare the Gospell so I rule by the Gospell in the heartes of the beleeuers ouer sinne death and the Deuill and for sinne vvill I giue righteousnesse for death life for the Crosse ioye for hell I vvill giue heauen these are feofments of my kingdome Of these things none can be pertaker excepte he heare my voyce and beleeue in his heart I enrich not mine vvith ryches vvith cities and other feofmeÌ„ts but by my vvords I communicate vnto them ioye life peace and to conclude heauen it selfe The Gospell therefore is the Scepter of my kingdome But what are these things against the Emperor of Rome Thus againe we sée that Christe is not such a King nor his kingdome suche as you dreame of Whiche in the ende your selfe contrarie to your selfe confesse that his kingdome is not suche an one that he euer mingled himselfe in earthly things Then Master Saunders those thinges belonged not to his Kingly office nor to his kingdome For in suche things euery King ought not onely to mingle but chiefly to occupie himselfe But strait you haue an exception at hand that he mingled not himself in earthly things except whereas they might be profitable to a spirituall ende and this your selfe before confessed was the finall ende of all the ciuill power and that all faythfull Kings ought to directe all those thinges in their kingdomes vnto spirituall endes bicause they themselues are spirituall And so what letteth but that Christe should haue raigned as a worldly King and gouerned an earthly kingdome But say you This kingdome of Christ therfore both came from heauen tendeth vnto heauen For both al povver is giueÌ„ vnto â–ª him as he vvas man and died and rose againe that he shoulde rule ouer the lyuing and the deade and that he should be set ouer the vvorkes of the handes of God and that all things should be cast vnder his feete sheepe and Oxen and moreouer the beastes of the fielde And also Saint Cyrill saith that euen the wicked in the laste daye shall arise to their punishement for Christe vvho rose firste and contained as man al men in him self Sith therefore earthly Kings administer those things that pertain to sheepe and Oxen and beasts of the fielde although they remaine Eâ—…hnikes and Infidels yet are they truely vnder Christe the King as the most vvorthy man â–ª that hath receiued the principalitie ouer all thinges of this vvorlde not from the earth but from heauen and for the same shall giue an accouÌ„t to him of their common vveale euil ordered bycause they referred not their kingdomes to a spirituall ende that is to the glorie of one god But Christ so far as appertineth to his humaine â—…atuÌ„re being lesse than Angels seemeth to me to haue receiued that kingdome that Adam first should haue administred among all creatures to the glorie of one God if he had not falne from grace and to haue renued it in himselfe and to haue directed it to a spiritual end that vvhen all things should be subiect to the Sonne of man then should the Sonne also be subiecte vnto him that hath subdued all thinges to him that God might be all in all Sith therefore Christ by his humaine nature is the King of all he truely directeth al things to a spiritual end that is to the glorie of God for God deserueâ—…h glorie yea euen in those that are damned bothe for his povver and for his iustice The effecte hereof is this that God hath giuen to the humain nature of Christ as to the principal of al his creatures al povver iudgement to direct them to a spiritual end that is to his glorie But what is this to the purpose that Christes kingdome is after the fashion of a vvorldly kingdome he gouerneth all creatures we graunt with his power and prouidence yea the sheepe Oxen and cattail that he speaketh on But dothe the kingdome of Christe consiste in these things Numquid Deo cura de bobus hath God saith Sainte Paule care of Oxen in the coÌ„sideration of his heauenly kingdome He telleth vs howe all Kings shall answere for the â—…busing of their kingdomes vnto Christ at the day of dome bycause they referre them not to a spirituall ende But he telleth not howe muche more the Pope shall aunswere for â—…surping kingdomes and abusing the spirituall kingdome of Christe to vvorldly endes But shall this iudgemente of Christ be in a vvorldly coÌ„sistorie He telleth vs how he thinketh that Christe receiued that kingdome that Adam should haue had had he not falne But thinketh he that Christe should haue ruled in an earthly Paradise or that Christ came to restore vs to no better kingdome than Adam was in before he sinned He telleth vs Al things shal be made subiect to Christe and Christe to God and God shall be all in all But thinketh he this kingdome shall be in this worlde and militant Church while the euimies striue and are not yet al subdued he telleth vs the glorie and iustice of Christ shineth in the condemnation of them that are damned But dothe he thinke this is a vvorldly glorie and humaine iustice it is true that the glorie and iustice of Christe shal shine ouer theÌ„ And so shal it in the righteouse condemnation of the Popish Church that séeketh such a vvorldly kingdome and calleth it the spiritual kingdome of Christe to cloake their pryde withall But what can Master Saunders conclude hereon for Byshops to possesse kingdoms to rule Kings to sette vp or to depose them Neither say I these thinges saithe he to shevve herevpon that povver is ouer the vniuersal vvorld giuen to the Bishops of the Chnrch as though they in all things are the Ministers and Vicars
of Christe in that he is man for they haue not receiued the vvhole povver of Christe to administer it but that part that properly belongeth to beleeuers For it vvas sayde vnto the first Pastor feede not all men but my sheepe and to thee I giue the keyes not of all the vvorlde but of the kingdome of heauen Sithe therefore Christe hath receiued a certaine celestiall kingdome vvhich kingdome vseth also earthly things vnto the glorie of God and sith out of the things of the vvorld he hath chosen a certaine societie of men vvhiche in a certain especial sort vvorshippeth God in faith and loue in this onely seconde kynde of things Christe hath ordeined Pastors to be his Vicars You say that ye say not these things to shevve that herevpon povver is giuen to Byshops ouer al the vniuersal world But what soeuer you say your Pope saith contrarie applying this saying of Christe to himselfe and his successors all povver is giuen to me in heauen and in earth You say that Byshops haue onely that povver that properly belongeth to the beleeuers bycause Christe sayde vnto the firste Pastor feede not all men but my sheepe That Peter was the firste Pastor is another question Master Saunders But that the the Apostles had not in charge to go and preach to those that were not beleeuers yea to all men so farre as they could besides the feeding of them that were beleeuers and so were become alreadie the shéepe of the folde of Christe is a manifest vntruth For the Apostles had this generall charge goe ye into all the vvorlde and preach the Gospell to euery creature So that they fedde besides the faithfull the Infidels dispersed through out the whole world for those Christe also calleth his bycause they shoulde be his shéepe alias oues babeo c. I haue also other sheepe that are not of this folde those must I bring also c. But whereto run you to this so euident falshood forsooth to proue that the Byshops haue ful power ouer al the beleeuers in a their earthly possessions so might haue power to depose Kings to occupie their king doms sease vpoÌ„ al mens goods that are Christians bycause they are their Pastors And to this purpose is it that you say Christe hath receiued a certaine celestiall kingdome vvhiche vseth also all earthly things vnto the glorie of God. Whiche saying in this sense may well be graunted the kingdome of Christe vseth all earthly thinges that it vseth to the glorie of God but this woulde be proued that the Kingdome of Christe vseth by the administration of the spirituall ministers thereof a vvorldly or earthly kingdome which vse is so far from the glorie of God that it is contrarie to his celestial kingdome Whiche consisteth as you say in feeding the sheepe of Christe in the keyes of Gods worde and in that especiall sort of vvorshipping God in faith and loue and not in deposing kings or gouerning of earthly kingdomes wherin they can not be as you terme them Vicars or deputies of Christ sith Christ the King neither tooke himselfe such vse of power vpoÌ„ him flatly forbad the same vnto his Ministers Therefore the vvhole kingdome of Christe came from heauen that is from the dignitie vvhich is giuen vnto his humaine nature for the vnion of the Diuine nature Neither by any meanes the kingdome of him drue his originall from the lavve of nations or the ciuile For hee refused to be created King or to deuide the inheritance betwene the brethren saying vvho hath made me a Iudge or deuider ouer you As though he shoulde say neither the common vveale neither the Emperor hath made me a Iudge yet notwithstanding these brethren thought of such a Iudge But in that part that Christe vvas appointed of God to be Iudge by his incarnation concerning that he saide vnto those brethren bevvare of all couetousnesse For he savv that they draue not their inheritance to a spirituall ende that they might beare the heauenly iudgement of Christe This is a shamefull wresting of the Scripture and inuerting of the manifest doings of our Sauiour Here are two other plaine examples of Christ against Master Saunders the one of his refusall to be a vvorldly King the other to be a'vvorldly Iudge The former he shifteth off in this sortâ—… Christ would not receiue an earthly kingdom into his hands not bycause he would none of it but bycause he woulde not take it of their gifte least it shoulde séeme to come of them For his kingdome is of heauen and notin the originall from the lavv of nations or of the ciuile As though our disputatioÌ„ were so much of the originall as of the vse and hauing of it as though Christe respected nothing but the originall or as though if he woulde haue had such a kingdome he could not haue had it if they had not giuen it him or as thoughe euen the first original of earthly kingdomes came not from God also But to confute you with your owne mouthes I will cite once againe Frier Ferus againste you that alledgeth not onely this cause of the originall but many other causes directly to this purpose Christe fled saithe he bycause he receiued not a kingdome of men but gaue a kingdome vnto men He fled bycause his kingdome is not of this vvorld it is not carnall it consisteth not in externall riches povver pompe c. Yea he rather came that he might teach to contemne these things But his kingdom is a kingdome of truth iustice peace and eternall life For although he gouerne in all the vvorlde yet hee gouerneth not after the manner of the vvorlde nor he affecteth suche a kingdome He sâ—…edde therefore not bycause he vvoulde not raigne ouer the faithfull but bycause he deferreth the expresse tokens of reigning for the time to come Hee sledde bycause hee came to minister not that it shoulde be ministred vnto hym Hee fledde for hee came not to kill Kings but to preach to Kings the knovvledge of raigning iustly not to presse the kingdomes of the world vvith tributes and taxes but that vvhich Kings so vvell as the people vvanted to giue them giftes of life eternall out of the treasure of the kingdome of heauen going about to vanquishe in vvarre a farre other manner of ennimie than Tiberius Caesar and to take an other manner of beaste than Rome vvhyche at that tyme vvas Ladie of the Ievves Besides this hee fledde that he vvoulde not giue to the people an occasion of sedition against Caesar and so vvithall an occasion of sinne and perdition For hee that moueth sedition againste the povver as héere in your writing you M. Sand â–ª do and your Pope doth in his Bulles against Christian Princes sinneth and iustly perisheth for it VVhich Christe himselfe hath spoken he that taketh the svvorde shall perishe vvith the svvorde To conclude he fled least hee should
is yet aboue the Byshops And although the King so well as the priuate man ought to require the lavve of the Lord out of the priestes lippes yet if the Priest instâ—…ade of the Lords lavve will giue his owne lavv the king ought to rebuke or punish him For if the King ought to require it of the B. then as it is the Byshops duetie to yelde it so is it the Princes duetie and ofâ—…ce to call vpon him to sée to it that the B. faithfully giue it to him to all the priuate men in his kingdome Whiche againe proueth so litle the Byshops authoritie ouer the King that it playnely proueth the Kings authoritie ouer the B. in requiring of theÌ„ to preach the lavv of God which is their proper office calling and not to gouerne Kings and translate kingdomes Sixtly and lastly I answere that if this were graunted to the Pope which M. sand woulde so faine conclude that one Iudge in the Church should be ordeined betvvene Kings themselues and them and their peoples that this one Iudge shoulde be the Pope where he pretendeth it woulde cut off infinite occasions of warres and tumults as this conclusioÌ„ can not be gathered on this example so this effecte of peace to ensue by this meanes is but an imagination in M. sand opinion we should finde another manner of effecte thereof that would be the very welspring of infinite warres and tumults And least he shoulde thinke that I speake partially against the Pope as he doth for the Pope I report me to the experience of it and not to vaine imaginations what tragedies hath the Pope raysed betwene the Gréeke Germaine Emperors chiefly to the Henries the 4. the â—… â–ª to Frederike the 2. to Lewis the 4. to the tumults of King Iohn in EnglaÌ„d to the Popes practises betwene Germanie FrauÌ„ce Spaine for the kingdomes of Cicil Naples for the Duchie of Apulia Millaine to the maintenance of the factions in Italy betwene the Guelphes and Gebellines the white sect and the blacke secte the French Imperials the Uenetians and the Genowaies the Florentines and the Pisans al the states of Italy Al which and infinite moe warres and tumults in Christendom haue ben raysed nourished abetted chiefly by this one Iudge the Pope and yet would M. sand haue him to be the onely Iudge and definer whether any King should be deposed or be placed Were not this the readiest way to set al Princes by the eares chiefly if he wold change his mynd vpon displeasure or his successor should fauour an other or there were two or thrée Popes at once theÌ„ should al Christendome be in a broyle by the eares togither and the Pope would clap them on the backe and win by the spoyle of all countries and no countrie shoulde haue their lawfull and naturall Prince but either foraine or periured vsurpers nor any Prince haue his royall authoritie but be the Popes Tenants at will. If the world were come to this passe as it appeareth the Papistes would haue it were not this a goodly quiet world trow you But then it were a goldeÌ„ world for the Priests when all men else shoulde finde it a bloudie world and euery man werâ—…â—…eadie to cut an others throate and all things runne to hauocke But were it admitted that none of these mischieues should ensue but that al occasions of vvarre and tumults vvould be cut off yet sith this calling to rule all Christian Kings and kingdomes is vnlawfull for any Byshop besides Christe to haue what were this peace but as the wicked say Pax pax vbi non est pax peace peace where God saith there is no peace what were this peace but the worldes peace yea the Diuels peace where the strong man helde all things in his house in peace where Antichriste ruled in quiet prosperâ—…tie till Christe a stronger than he woulde come and breake his peace Rather than tumults shoulde be cut off with suche a shamefull peace and peace bought with suche a wicked condition it were far better for Princes to striue to the death for the truth against such peace and to cut off suche an arbiters head who to maintaine his pryde for worldly peace would make open warre with Christe And thus we sée the effecte would be naught and yet as naughtie as this peace woulde be we shoulde not haue it peaceably neyther if the Pope might set in his foote take vpon him to depose kings and translate kingdomes But this example of Ioiada giueth him no such authoritie M. Saund. hauing now gathered together all the proues examples that he coulde wrest with any colour to his purpose leaueth the olâ—…e Testament falleth to the like proues and wrestings of the newe Testament Howe Christe for the saluation of one man let the deuils drowne two thousande hogges How Christ draue the buyers and sellers out of the Temple How S. Paule gaue the incestâ—…ous fornicator at Corinth and Hymeneâ—… and Alexander to Sathan How Peter reproued Ananias and his wife for lying to the holy Ghost they fell downe dead But how al these things are wrested is appâ—…ant For in all this here is no king deposed and therfore they serue not to this question But how euery one of them serueth to confute the Papistes bicause the volume is risen too large alreadie in these answeres and chiefly in the answere to Maister Stapleton I am constraâ—…ned here to breake off stay As for that which followeth of the Fathers of the Histories and how those also are wrested as â—…oulie as these I purpose to reserue God willing to another volume In the meane time let vs coniecture the residue by these arguments the rest of al the Papists by these two M. Stapleton and M. Saunders who are nowe their principall writers Whereby as we may easily weighe the peise of their stuffe so we mayâ—… euidently sée the driâ—…te of their malice Thirsting blood breathing treasons practising conspiracies procuring seditions blowing out as it were a trumpet to open rebellion against the Queenes Maiestiâ—… their Natural Soueraigne and our most Gracious Gouernour against all the states of the Realme and to make haâ—…e of the whole congregation of Christ and all to maintaine the pride the tyrannie the errors and superstitions of the Pope But with what weake and selender reasons how impudently wrested how shamefully applyed how vnfitly concluded All the world may sée and themselues be ashamed if they be not past shame All the children of God may cléerely beholde and not be afraide but the fullier confirmed in the truth thereby All Christian Princes may the better perceiue and the more abhorre the Popishe practises with all their power represse them as the vtter ruinâ—… of their sstates and considering their high calling may zealously loke to the dutie of their authoritie and as their Titles put them in minde be in déede most Christian