as myne dothe me so as myne may well be a dreame yet I can not beleue it for I knowe many thyngs which I did not before But now that I am sure I sléepe not nor dreame not I wyll sée yf shée wyll reason wyth me as she hathe done and call hir as she appoynted yesterday in the mornyng I shoulde doe My soule O my soule Soule What wouldest thou Iust Iust Sée it is trewe that I dydde not dreame I woulde wée shoulde talke a whyle together as we haue done and that thou wouldest contente me in that thou dydst begyn to speake of yesterdaye in the mornyng But sée I wyll not that thou go out of mée any more as thou hast done these two mornyngs For I passe not now to sée thée and I know I haue bene in greate peryll and also playde the very foole to put my selfe in suche hazarde wherevpon my lyfe laye Soule What perill was that Iust As thou sayest thou haddest a greatte wylle that I shoulde studye wherefore when thou haddest bene from me and mynded to returne no more to mae but for to enter into the bodye of some Studente then shoulde I haue bene a body withoute a Soule and yf not as dead yet at least one of the base beastes Soule Doubt it not Iust thou art in no suche daunger for if thou remembrest wel I tolde thée I dyd not in all separate my selfe from thée but only with my part diuine y ◠which is suche as being immortall may be withoute thee Iust Very well and bycause she may be without me therfore I feare bycause I would not become a beast I say and sée one other with my brain and with his sell me by and by and then other euery day ten times Soule Although I can be withoute thée which shall be after that separation that death shall make of vs neuerthelesse I can not informe any other body but thée til the day of iudgement Iust Wherfore Soule Bycause of that perpetuall qualitie that I must informe thée and none other Iust What is that qualitie thou speakest of Soule It is a certaine conuenience and inclination that I haue to worke by thée to begyn to taste my perfection which was not gyuen me of God at my creation as to angels which if I had I shoulde haue no nede of thée And this is the onely thyng that maketh me differ from other soules bycause we being not different in kind as of y ◠other beasts forasmuch as we be reasonable they not nor can not be different in number bicause we be not materiall it shoulde folowe that we were all one thing and this consideration hath brought many greate men into greatest errours but one of vs is different from an other by that qualitie respecte that she hath with hir body and not with other Iust I will be playne with thée I vnderstande not this matter Soule Maruel not for Duns whom they call the subtill Doctour who thought he vnderstode it better than other gyuing it the name Eccheita a name altogether strange to the barbarous eares muche more to the Latines did not vnderstande it perfectly him selfe Iust Then let it goe for I woulde not that we shoulde enter into these toyes and then happe to me as dyd to hym that going aboute to blynde other mens braynes dydde so blinde hym selfe as he was buried quicke Whiche thyng myghte well happen to me if I were founde once wythout thee therefore tarrie wyth me as thou haste done for I wyll no more abide the perill and I care not nowe to sée thée Soule I sée thou haste such feare of our separation that it is full tyme I deliuer thée of it Vnderstand that although I haue tolde thee I goe out of thée yet I neuer dyd nor can doe it but by death and that is bicause I am thy forme am not in thée as a mariner in a ship as many haue beleued Iust This is a new tricke what I haue séene thée Soule It appeares s◠to thée Iust Appeare wilt thou make me beleue I see not a thing when I see it Soule I say it dyd but appeare so Iust Which way Soule I wil tell thée I moued from those visions and images which thou hast in fantasy and represented them to thy vertue imaginatiue as I doe when thou dreamest and so it semeth thou dyddest see me Iust Canst thou deceyue me after this sort Soule I can and in this sort spirits deceiue mē many times and therfore their apparitiōs be called fantastical Iust What is it true there be spirites in déede Soule Dost thou doubt Iust I can not tel I haue heard say of many learned men that they bée things fained things that appeare only to certain simple mē that they come somtime of melācoly humors y ◠bréede by hearing of strange things Soule They be of those lerned men that think they vnderstand all things and shewe they haue redde little in Stories or in Scripture and litle to beleue in the same which is worse I tell thée that spirites be and besides this make them that beleue them to seme they be sometyme an other thing hast thou not hearde that they that be witches think they be Cats Iust Be these sorcerers also true Soule Would God they were not true which he suffreth for our sinnes Reade what the Count of Mirandula writeth of one that he had in his hāds And the Canonists wold haue forsene that it had not ben true whiche haue made a particular law of the witched and enchaunted Iust Surely that is a greate argument but let it go Thou hast taken a great waight from my heart saying thou wylt not go from me But now let vs turne to our talke yesterday in the morning tell me whereof comes it that these Doctors do◠so discorage other from study shewing them it is a greater paine than to cary the stone of Verma as the Prouerbe sayth Soule Thou knowest Iust that the least part of men be good but whether this commeth either of the infirmitie of the fleshe or of euill custome or of little religion I will not nowe dispute Iust Thou sayst truth ther be more bad than good and do so increase that I feare we are nygh the ende of the worlde Thou séest how we haue growen worse worse these fiftie yeres I wil not reason of Popes Cardinals and Priests and lesse of Friers that thou sholdest not by and by proclaime me a Luterane But consider children of ten yeares olde how they be without reuerence without shame bolde dishonest and mocke a man of fiftie yeres Alas I remember that in my time we passed twentie yeres before we knewe what Venus or Bacchus was and nowe so soone as they bée borne the one is gyuen them for a nurse the other for a master Soule Ye may thank their good education and the small wisedom of their fathers which think it a propre thing
Iust Then you be as a man might say a thyng of nothing Soule Yea folowing the opinion of the common people whiche call that nothyng that is not compounded of earthe water of fire makyng no accompt of aire I thinke if in this chāber there were not these chestes thys bed and other thyngs thou wouldest say it were emptie if thou wouldest say truthe Iust Should I not say it wer emptie when nothing is in it Soule Yes surely but there shoulde be somewhat in it Iust What should there be when there is nothyng I feare me thou woldest make me beleue glasse wormes to be lanternes Soule The aire should be there Iust What aire or no aire when a tubbe is emptie I knowe there is nothing in it and I sée it euery day Soule And what vessels be they that thou euer hast séene emptie Iust Mary all those in my shop Soul Ah foole be they not ful of aire Iust No for if thou lookest well there is darkenesse and where aire is there is light Soule Then the nyghte when it is darke is none aire This is as ye speake of yong babes whiche you say haue no soules vntill they be baptized which if it were true it shoulde folow that neither Turke nor Iewe had soule but let vs leaue this Thou art little practised and followest the ignorant but that thou shouldest not remain in this thy false opinion thou oughtest to vnderstand that the ayre hath a body as well as the water or the earth but it is a little more fyne is darke of it self yf it be not lightned of the Sunnebeames or of some other lighte And further thou must vnderstande that no emptye called Vacuum can be in Nature that is to say that in this vniuersall worlde there is no place but is full of some bodye And of this thou mayst make a thousande experiences euery daye but I will teach thée but one and that is with that vessell wherewith thou watrest thy gardin for stopping the the hole aboue the water commes not out of the holes beneath and that cometh of none other cause but that the hole aboue beyng stopped the aire can not enter in whereby if the water shoulde goe oute that place shoulde remayne voyde the whyche bycause Nature can not abyde she makes the water remayne contrarie to hir nature in that place Iust And who knowes that that is the cause Soule Who knowes euery man that hath witte Iust I will tell thée the truth these be certaine things that I can not skil of and I think they be toyes to make a man madde I doe knowe that a vesselle that hathe nothyng in it is voyde and I can neuer beléeue otherwyse I hope that thou wylte not vse me as Mathewe Serui was who was made to beleue that he was an other man than he tooke him selfe and that he was a Carpenter and made Tergates whereby he entred into such a conceipte that when he came to houses where he vsed to goe and sawe olde Tergats hang there hée beganne to saye that he knewe of them that were made of hys owne hande Soule Then sée howe harde it is when one is farre brought to vnderstande a thyng euill to sette hym in the ryght way Iust What wouldest thou say that when I woulde euen nowe haue embraced thée and founde nothyng that I did imbrace somewhat ah Soule Dyddest thou not imbrace the aire Iust What ayre I knowe I imbraced nothyng within a while thou wouldest make me beleue that when my stomacke is emptie it were full the whiche yf I woulde beléeue I shoulde dye for hunger God kéepe mée Soule I saye vnto thée that yf wée should graunt voidenesse a thousand inconueniences shoulde folow as for example If betwene thée me were nothing thou couldest not sée me Iust Oh God sée howe this geare groweth For out of doubt it is contrary for if there were any body betwene thée and me then coulde I not see thée Soule It is true if it were such a body that thy syght or imagination coulde not passe thou couldest not sée me but that should rise of an other occasion than a voide place betwéene thée and me Iust Tell me howe this thyng is meant for I vnderstand it not Soule If betwéene vs were emptinesse none aire thē shold ther be no light Wherfore the beames of thine eyes coulde not come to thée nor my image come to thine eyes For light is a qualitie and qualitie is an accident and no accident can stand without a subiect that rules it then if here were none aire that did stay the light here coulde be none Iust As for me I vnderstand not what thou meanest Soule Heare then if thou canst vnderstande me an other waye when thou standest by the fyre what is it that heateth thée Iust The fire Who knoweth not that this is a childishe thing Soule But that is not true Iust Oh what heates me the wind Thy matters be childrens toyes if I would beleue them Soule The aire heateth thée which toucheth thée whiche is heated of the fire for the fire not touching thée can not heate thée for no body can worke in an other vnlesse he touche it Iust What meanest thou by that Soule I meane that if there were any emptie place betwene thée and the fire thou shouldest neuer be heated For that heate whiche is an accident hauyng nothyng to holde it coulde not come vnto thée but béeyng stayde by the ayre whiche commeth to thée that ayre that toucheth thée being hotte doth heate thée also Iust Wel I wyl tel thée the truth Thou myghtest tell me thys tale an hundred yeare and I beleue I should neuer vnderstande thée any thyng to thys purpose and neuer beléeue thée Soule I sée thys mornyng thou art not apt to receyue the truthe therefore I wyll not talke of any other thyng and it is tyme thou goest to thy worke To morowe at the accustomed houre I will goe from thée and take this bodye and reason wyth thée and thou shalte be better dysposed to vnderstande mée than thou art nowe Iust If wée tarrie vntill to morowe thou shalte peraduenture bée better in thy brayne and tell me no thyngs that no man vnderstands Soule But sée thys nyght thou kepest thy candle lyght for I wyll not thou spende so muche tyme aboute it to morowe The .iij. Reasoning SOVLE IVST THe crowing of the cock hath not serued this morning O Iust to wake thée it is almost day and thou stepest thou answerest not but stretchest thy selfe what meanes it Iust I am halfe mynded to be angry with thée Soule Why arte thou sorie I haue broke thy slepe Iust For slepe I care not yet it greueth me thou haste waked me for I haue dreamed the most swete and plesant things that euer I saw Soule What things Iust I can not so welle tell thée for they were not as I am wont to dreame things that haue neither hed nor
part with substaÌ„ce seperate which you cal Aungels wher thou didst onely participate with brute beasts wherof we being vnited together haue ben called of some Philosophers the band of nature the world for in thée do ende the earthly bodily creatures in me beginneth y â— diuine spiritual be only one vndiuided made so maruelously of two coÌ„trary natures as I haue said y â— Mercury Trimegist did call it y â— great miracle of nature Iust I confesse al this to be true but wherfore dost y â— praise me this makes not for thy lamenting of me Soule Heare me and thou shalt sée if I haue cause to lamente I being so noble a creature haue not as reason is mine ende and my perfection in this vniuersall nor in those things wherof that is made as haue thother creatures inferiour to me wherof if thosâ— markst well God after he hadde created all things of the world he caried into Paradise only man that he being seperated from other might haue vsed the operations there that were conuenient to his nature from whence he by hys fault was most miserably driuen out which thing grieueth me more that rightnesse taken from him that waâ—â—â— vs that is to say originall Iustice by whose meane thou shouldest haue ben obedient to me and shouldst not haue striuen against me as thou haste done since Iust Well well I haue so many times heard the same things told in the Pulpit that thou néedest not tell â—â—â— them again therfore let vs come to the conclusion Soule If thou be not altogether a foole thou mightest haue gathered of these my reasons y â— my end thine for that I speake I speake of man is not in these bodily and earthly things for y â— is of other beastes which lacke reason but it is only in the contemplation of truth by the which beholding the maruelous works of the mighty hand of God a great part in this world may be had whither I was sent from God and vnited in thée that by the meane of thy senses and thy helpe I might get all those knowledges that the nature of man can doe that those should be a ladder to bring me to consider the truth it selfe without any Vaile whereof should haue grown my felicitie ioyned with a blessednesse Iust All this that thou hast saide is well but wherin haue I hindred thée or euer anoyed thée that thou canst coÌ„playne of me Soule I wil not speake Iust of those impediments common that rise of thée thy proper nature weake and enclined to loue seke only earthly things but I wil onely lament of thée in this that thou hast euer held me occupied in so vile exercise as thy craft of Couperage is what griefe thinkest thou Iust hath it ben to me that I being so noble a creature haue euer ben forced to minister to thée all my knowledge and power that thou sholdest make barels pitchers bowes for babes and patens with such other like and that onely for thy businesse I must leaue the contemplation of the beauty of this vniuersal hold mine eyes down vpon a thingâ—o base contrary to my nature Tel me haue I not cause to lament of thée Iust These thy reasons seme to me y â— in one thing they be true in another no. As touching the coÌ„sideration of thy nature they be true but in consideratioÌ„ of mine of man not so for theÌ„ al handy crafts should be taken away thou knowst how necessary thei be not only to me but to thée also for wheÌ„ I suffer thou canst not do thy works perfectly Soule I wil not take away manuell craftes for I knowe well howe many things man hath néede of and thy selfe particularly without the which thou sholdst fal into a thousand infirmities a thousand anoyances which shold let me so as I shold lesse giue my self to coÌ„templation than I doe being as I am Iust How so if al soules wold y â— those men of which they be part should giue theÌ„selues to contemplatiue life study Soule No I say for I wold that they to whom is by lot giuen an vnperfect body or compound of humours or euill coÌ„plexion or that haue the instruments of the senses by some impediment that nature hath found coÌ„trary to hir intentioÌ„ not wel apt to do their offices were I say those that shold haue pacience to exercise theÌ„selues in these base things Iust The thing shold surely turne to al one term for ther shold be more that would apply bandy occupation though liberall science bicause the more parte be of them that be borne of that sorte that are little bound to nature commonly be called men grosse Soule Thanke the little wit of men which when they sowe a field of corne they vse all diligence that the séede be good and cleane and the land wel in order but when they will get a child they haue little count of the one and lesse of the other the more part seking after it when they haue supped or be otherwise altered by eating and drinking wherby it is not to be marueled though ther groweth more Sloes than Damasins for so wyll I speake for the honor of mans nature which hadde more néede than other creatures not to be in loue but at certaine times séeing he doth so little worke that knowledge that is giuen him of God wherby he might put a bridle to his vnreasonable passions but let vs leaue this for it toucheth not me for I was allotted to a body well complexioned indued with very good instruments wherewith the senses be exercised as well interior as exterior and made liuely wyth a blood so good that engendereth so cléere and subtill spirits apt to do any operation perfectly of thée thus I say that thou were apt to do any noble exercise aswel contemplatiue as actiue and yet hast thou alwais kept me in making of slippers what sayst thou nowe haue I cause to lament or no Iust What wouldest thou I should haue done I was set to this art of my father being a childe whych as thou knowest did occupy the same beside I was poore and not able to goe to my booke Soule If thou hadst ben rich able to make thine owne choyse and of age to knowe I would haue otherwise lamented with thée than I doe whereas now I hold thée excused for this cause Iust Then tel me wherin thou haste cause to complayne Soule I may complayne bycause that thou being come to the age of discretion and knowing thée in so good a trade as thou didst lay vp money euery yeare that nowe thou dost not begin to thinke of me séeking to gyue me though not in all yet in parte some perfection as thou diddest to thy selfe of wealth and commoditie Iust Oh how shold I haue done it Soule In giuing thy selfe to some science that might haue brought me perfection and contentacion
beginning to open to me the way of knowledge of the truth which as I haue said vnto thée is my chiefe ende Iust Be shorte and tell me what I must haue done Soule Thou must I say haue giuen thy selfe to the study of science diuiding thy time so as thou shouldest not haue let thy worke Iust And wouldest thou that I shold both haue plaide the Couper and the Student Soule Yea would I. Iust And what would the people haue said Soule What say they at Bolonia of one Iames Fellay ther which kepes his occupation yet hath profited in learning that he may compare with many that haue done nothing else but study and in Venice an Hosier that died of late and was very wel learned Iust What time should I haue had to it Soule So much as should haue suffised which thou didst spende somtime in play or in going abroad babling by the way for dost thou thinke that they that study do study euer if thou lokest wel thou shalt sée them most part of the day walking abroad remember of Mathew Palmer thy neighbour that euer was a Potecarie and yet got so much learning as the Florentines sente him embassadour to the king of Naples the which dignitie was giuen him only to shew a thing so rare y â— a man of so base condition shold haue so noble conceits as to giue himself to study not leauing his exercise and I remember I haue heard that the king said What Phisitians be at Florence when their Apothecaries be so singular men Iust I knowe thou sayst true and I hadde inclination inough but two things caused me that I neuer had no minde that way the one was the base arte that I was of the other the payn that I haue heard of many that is in study Soule Thou art euen fallen wher I would alleaging this second cause for as for the first if these examples of our time which I haue named doe not suffise thée let the auncient examples of those olde Philosophers suffise which vsed all some occupation and specially of Hippias which did shape and sowe his clothes did make trappers for horses and many other things but to the other I answere thée that in the world is not so easy a thing as to study and to get learning Iust Thou telst me a thing which I thought the contrary Soule Heare me and I will proue it Euery thyng holpen of his proper nature getteth his perfectioÌ„ without any paine and perfection is the knowledge of veritie wherefore a man in getting it should haue no payne at all Of this coÌ„clusion the propositions being true I know that thou hast no doubt at all but bicause thou mightest doubt of theÌ„ I wil proue them and first the maner Tell me thinkest thou the earth endureth any paine in going to the centre Iust I thinkeÌ„ not Soule And doth y â— fire take any pain to mount to his Sphere Iust Lesse Soule And doe the plants take any pain to be nourished to be augmented and to bring forth their séede and the beasts to â—oaâ—e and gender like to them selues Iust No for I sée euery one doth these operations if he be not letted Soule Then thou knowest that nothing dureth any paine to get his perfection bicause the earth is onely perfect when she is in hir Centre and the fire when he is in his Sphere wher he hath no contrariety and the trées wheÌ„ they become to their termes brought forth their fruits the beasts wheÌ„ they haue gendred like to theÌ„selues to maintain their kinde which they can not do in theÌ„selues singular bycause so doing they grow more like their first mouer Now I haue only to proue thée y â— them and perfection of man is to vnderstand but I knowe that the desyre of knowledge the which thou séest to be in euery man doth assure thée of it Iust Oh I wold not haue ben dead yesterday for nothing in the world for thou haste opened mine eyes so well that I sée now that I neuer sawe afore in thre score yeares and more Soule I will saay more vnto thée it were more easy for Iust to vnderstande a worke of Aristotle than to make a Pitcher or a payre of Soccles for a Frier Iust Nowe thou speakest of a great matter Soule I speake as it is and heare the reason What pleasure hast thou in making a paire of patens or a vessell or such like Iust I haue pleasure bicause I sée I gaine therby and so prouide for my neede that riseth euery day Soule Let vs leaue gaine for that also cometh of study but what other pleasure hast thou Iust None surely Soule And I lesse rather I haue an extreame passion knowing as I haue told thée and finding my selfe occupied in such things vile Iust Then what is the cause séeing it is as I see that so fewe men be giuen to study and chiefly of them that might and wante not the way to doe it Soule Of their euill bringing vp gouernement of their fathers and of their euil way of life which is now in the world and also in the feare whych they make that be counted lerned shewing that study is the hardest thyng that a man can doe Iust Thou sayst truth for I haue hapt many times to heare them say so they play as phisitians which alwais makes the diseases of their parents to be greuous and daungerous to shewe that if they recouer them they haue done a great cure Soule Ah Iust would God that this occasion only moued them to do so but they be moued of an other worse principle Iust What is it tell me Soule I must haue more time and now it is broade day to morow if thou will reason as thou hast done this mornyng I will tell thée that and other things Iust With a good will and I pray thée too Soule Well I will tarrie till thou callest me for I will no more wake thée to grieue thée as thou werte this morning Iust So will I doe The .iiij. Reasoning IVST SOVLE Haue slepte euill thys nyght God I what would it meane yet I fynde no euill at all Some other wil say that these be the things which the infirmitie that all men couereth I meane Age bringeth to slepe euill and watche worse but it shal be better for mée since I am entred into this Fansie to talke with my Soule with whome I haue had suche pleasure these thrée rymes that wee haue talked together that euery houre seemeth a thousande yeare to renue the same yet may it be a Dreame wherof I stand halfe in doubt for I neuer heard that any such thing hath chaunced to any other before this time and thoughe it séemeth that Dauid in hys Psalmes sometime talketh with hir as in the begynning of the Seruice where he asketh hir why she is so melancolie and troubled yet could I neuer learne that she made hym any answere
that a little childe can speake an vnhonest worde or taste well of wine and doe not marke the euill to come whyche they gette thereby in teachyng them suche thyngs but lette them alone for they will repente it after when they be older but lette vs returne to oure talke Thou muste knowe that the goodnesse of men I speake not onely of it that is required of hym that wyll lyue lyke a Christian but of that that is conuenient for man commeth of loue the whiche dothe bryng a desire and gladnesse of an others weale Iust Thou sayest well and truely yf men dyd loue one an other wée shoulde néede no lawe at all for then there should be no murder no thefte no vsurie no robbyng◠and till ende we should liue in such a quiet as here men dyd in the golden age Soule So also euilnesse groweth of a contrary to loue whiche bredeth enuie and sadnesse for others weale and therefore yf thou consyderest well thou shalte fynde that all maligning men be enuious Iust Not only they be enuious but also foolishe Soule Bicause foolishnesse is also an imperfection of man and not being ruled with a good minde produceth infinite euill effects and bicause fooles cannot purchase that riches and those honoures that they woulde by the meane of theyr sufficiencie and vertue they séeke to procure it by a thousande wayes vniust and vnlaufull so as they thinke they can doe it closely and care not for the ruine of other a thyng so wycked that euen the brute beastes doe abhorre which when they wil nedes do euyll onely with force where as men shewing them selues friends maliciously and with a thousand fraudes do deceiue one an other euery day Iust Oh my soule thou speakest wisely and truely and he that wyll sée this thing wel let him loke among vs artificers and he shall finde that all the malicious foolish be enuious Soule And so it happeth among the learned where as well the foolishe as the euill doe nothing els but plucke men from studie the foolish to be estemed which they shoulde not if theyr foolishnesse were knowne coueryng it onely with reproche but doing nothing The malicious bycause an other shoulde not ioy that good and that honour that they thinke they haue Iust What way hold they Soule They saye there can not in the world be found a thing more hard than it and for al that as I sayd vnto thée this other day bycause to the nature of man there is nothyng so conuenient withoute doubte it is the more ease Iust In good faith in good faith I begin to open mine eyes and to sée that I did not before Soule Thou must know that when Letters fynde a man wise and good they make him more wise and more good And when they fynde a man a foole and euill they make hym more foolish and more euill Doest thou not see that there haue bene of these learned men that hauing no regard at al I wil not say of the law of god which they ought to esteme aboue al things but of them selues and of the worlde to appeare learned haue written a thousand workes in the hurte and offence of other men I wil not speake of them that beare the signe in theyr forheade of that they be as the Cortigian and the Dialogue of Vsurie although the one be sufficiēt to corrupt the honestie of the Romane Lucrece the other the liberalitie of Alexander Magnus but I mean of them that vnder the shadowe of good do teache all naughtinesse that can be thoughte as the boke Of the three Chastities y ◠Solution of Miracles which were a good dede to take them from the worlde Iust Oh thou sayest truthe and they that haue the charge oughte to sée that euery thing were not put in print Soule What thing can make thée more assured of this than experience which if thou markest diligentely it shall shewe thée that all lerned men béeyng good of Nature séekyng to communicate those good thyngs that God hathe gyuen them will exhorte all men in suche sorte as his state and habilitie requireth to giue himselfe to vertue and yf they see a carpenter they wyll at least encourage hym to the Mathematicalles As in our dayes that Image of God M. Iulian Caruine for so wyll I call hym bycause that so wyllyngly after the similitude of hym he doth communicate his good thyngs did to Camerino the Carpenter whome he hath made so experte in that facultie as he peraduenture is not seconde to anie other that in Latine or Greeke of the whiche he hathe no knoweledge haue studied in the like Science and so shoulde exhorte an Apothecarie to study Physicke and to be shorte euery man to seeke to obtayne those thyngs whyche they thynke maye be in any thing profitable or honourable to them Iust Thou sayst truthe certainely for I remember that Mathew Palmer of whome thou spakest yesterday did neuer other but exhort euery man of what sort soeuer he wer to giue him selfe to Vertue vsyng to saye that there was suche difference betwéene a man that knoweth somewhat and hym that knoweth nothyng as was betwene a painted mā a mā in dede And maister Marcello likewise which was my neighboure and a man not onely good but goodnesse it selfe to euery childe that had asked him his opinion of any matter he woulde haue answered all that he knewe so desirous was he to communicate his vertue alleaging oft that saying of Plato that one man was borne to healpe an other Soule What nede we more Dyd we not sée this other daye that moste holy and learned olde man maister Francis Verino a philosopher so excellent as no man in his age was lyke him who reading philosophie and seing Captain Cepe sometime come to his lecture and vnderstode no Latin he beganne by and by to reade in the vulgar that he also might vnderstād and a little before he died to shew his exceding goodnesse reading openly in the studie of Florence the .xij. boke of Aristotle he dyd expound it in the mother tongue that all men might vnderstand it affirming as S. Paule that he was debtour to the vnlearned as to the lerned Iust Such be the good men But can those things of philosophy be taught in the vulgare toung Soule Why not Is not the vulgar toung as apt to vtter hir conceipts as the Latin and other Iust I haue as thou knowest no great knowledge in those things and therfore I cannot aunswere thée but I heare of the learned of our time that they can not Soule Iust this is one of the things which enuy maketh them speake but it will not be long thanks be giuen to our most noble Duke who continuing to exalt hir as he hath begoon ere those spectacles shal be taken from our eyes that make euery thing séeme yelow neuerthelesse men myght haue séene cléere inough a good while since if they had wel considered the writing of frier
Ierome of Ferrara who wrote in this our tongue the moste high and hardest things of philosophy no lesse easly and perfectly than any writer of the Latin tongue Iust Was not this frier Ierome a Florentine Soule He was consider how much it holpe him to come and dwell in Florence I meane for the tongue which was such as euery man may know the difference that is betwene the thyngs he wrote before and since Iust That I know not but I haue heard that without grammer a man is not learned Soule A Notarie can not be without grammer and yet it is Coccoribus graÌ„mer that endes euery word in a consonant but let vs leaue thâ—se trifles graÌ„mer or to speake better the Latin is a tongue and tongues be not they that make men learned but vnderstanding and science for otherwise it should folowe that the Iew that is a goldsmith at Pecors corner which can speke eight or tenne tongues shold be the best lerned in Florence and the Starling that was giuen to the Pope Leo should be better lerned than these that haue only the Latine bicause he could say good day and many other things both in Gréeke and Latin Iust Ah ah thou art disposed to dally this Starling knew not what he sayd but did only speake what he was taught Soule Thou makest good my word that the things and not the tongues make men learned and although they be signified by tongs yet he that onely vnderstands the wordes shall neuer be learned tell me if this proposition of Aristotle were spoken to me Euery thyng euery Arte and euery Discipline desyreth that that is good in vulgare and I vnderstande it what néede haue I to haue it spoken in Gréeke or in Latin Iust I can not tell but they say so Soule Let them say their pleasure but this is truth and I wyll tell thée more that the vnderstanding of things is not sufficient to make a man lerned but hath néede also of iudgement Iust This I beleue well for I haue séene in my dayes many learned men fooles which haue not ben worth two handful of nuttes and yet haue studied inough and I remember amongst other one Michell Marullo which was one of those Grecians that fledde from the losse of Constantinople was very well learned as men sayde and yet he was a fonde foolish man wherfore one day one Bino Corrierie his companion said thus merily to him M. Michell men say you are very skilful in grammer and in gréeke it may wel be for I vnderstande nothing that way but in vulgare me think you are a very foole Soule Sée howe thou by little and little beginnest to sée light I say vnto thée that they say â—o only for enuy and wilt thou sée it now that they sée that Latin letters be made somewhat more vulgare than they were wont they begin to say that he that knoweth not Gréeke knowes nothing as if the spirites of Aristotle and of Plato as that honest Cortigian sayd were shut in an alphabet of Gréeke as in a glasse and a man learning it might drinke at one draught as he doth a sirupe Iust Truely thou sayst trueth and they say so Soule Then what will they doe fifetene or twenty yeres hence when the Gréeke toung shal be also as common to so many at this day studying it then they shal be forced to runne to another and for example to say he that knowes not the Hebrew knowes nothing and so from one tongue to an other and in th end be driuen to come to the Biskay tongue from whence they can goe no farther Iust Why so Soule Bicause that tongue can not be learned nor spoken but of them that be borne in that countrey but I can say vnto thée that they must doe other things like vnto these if they will be counted learned for now men begin to doe as children doe that haue no more feare of Robin good fellowe Iust What meane you by that Soule I meane it wil not serue now a dayes to say I haue ben at study or at the Vniuersitie for men care not till they sée an experience therof Iust I heare of certayne yong men that haue begon a certayn Achademia onely that men by that experience may gyue some proofe of themselues Soule And thou séest howe they repine at it and bicause they sée some man well lyked of whom before was no name they begin to finde fault and affirme that it will hinder the reputation of good letters and that men only study for a shewe and in the ende it shall be as Burchiell sayth What a diuel haue these silke worms in their bodyes that alwayes eate leaues and deliuer silke Iust This Achademia hath done to the learned as the siege dyd to the braue for where at the fyrste it was inoughe to saye he was braue and euery man had feare of hym nowe no man cares for such shadowes in so much as a lyttle chylde if he haue displeasure done him wyll not be afrayde with a knife to strike a souldier and of this more than one example hath ben séene Soule Thou haste sayde truely Iust and though these that giue not them selues altogether to studye can not excéede them that be so learned yet they discouer them and cause that they can not now féede men with empty spoones as it was once sayde to one of them as they coulde doe and haue done to thys day and in déede it was a gaye thyng sor them that when they didde saye it is so euery man must agre to their word as Pithagoras disciples did but nowe they must shew wherfore and why if they will be beleued but let them alone I say vnto thée that this opening of eyes which this Achademia hath done to men is Triacle for them Iust And doest thou beleue in déede that they that fauour this trade shal be able to bring to perfection in time the sciences in our toung as they say they desire Soule For their sufficiency I dare say vnto thée I know many very apt and I beleue when so euer they will shal be able to doe it wel as already no smal tokens be shewd but as touching the aptnesse of our tong to receiue theÌ„ perfectly I speake vnto thée resolutely that our tongue is most perfect and apt to expresse any maner conceit of philosophy or astrology or any other scieÌ„ce and as wel as in Latin and peraduenture in Gréeke of the which they make so great a bragge for I remember that M. Constantine Lastari that Grecian of the which men of our age make so great a vaunt vsed to say in the gardin of Rucellai at the table wher many gentlemen were present of the whych peraduenture some be yet aliue that he knewe Boccace not to be inferiour to any Gréeke writer for his eloquence maner of speaking that he did esteme his hundred tales as much as an hundred of these Poets Iust What dost
sonne the way the truth and light of y ◠worlde that the creatures reasonable mighte by the meane of this be broughte to their perfection which certenly is nothing else but a contemplation of the first and vnspeakeable veritie Iust Both in this and other I will do that thou wouldest haue me Soule Thanke thine age whyche hath so cooled thy blood and weakened thy force as thou leauest a parte the pleasures of the world and art reduced to this way of life Wherefore it may be rather sayd as once that Citizen didde that sinne hath left thée before thou it Iust Bée it as it may I wil not contende with thée Soule Nor I wold not for this but thou sholdest cōtinue to do well for if thou hast begon to liue in order by necessitie this seruile feare for so wil I cal it might one daye by the grace of God be turned into the feare of a son By the which thou should deserue no lesse thanke of hym than reputation of the worlde Iust It can hardly be brought about but youthe and other ages will haue their course and hée that doth it not yong will doe it olde as those birdes that can not sing in May sing after in September but let vs speke no more of this delyuer me from the doubt I tolde thée Soule Althoughe there haue bene many opinions of them whiche the worlde calleth wyse whyche haue sought howe I should knowe and vnderstande thyngs they may be reduced to two for two principall sectes haue ben that haue spoken and written of mée One of them is that hold I am immortall all diuine created of God moste good and greate and poured into thée and of these Plato with his other Achademicall Philosophers was chiefe an other is of them that hold that I haue my beginning with my body And of this Aristotle with his Peripatetical scholers is head although he spake not so as it might cléerely be gathered of his wordes whether he held I was mortal or immortall but hée strikes at large somtyme and sometyme so at hande as some holde by hym that I am immortall and some mortall Iust Howe doth he it Soule I wyll tell thée Hast thou euer hearde of one that asked counsell to take a wife And when he sayde Shée is faire take hir quod the other And when he sayd she is of euil bloud take hir not then sayd he but she hath a good dowrie take hir then No she is somewhat proude take hir not And so he still answered yea or no as he brought forth new matter And so dothe Aristotle with me For when he considereth me vnited wyth my body he sayth I am mortall and when he considereth me as an agent intellection that I can worke without it he sayth I am immortall so as finally he that readeth hym is neuer certain whether I am mortall or immortall Iust Peraduenture he was not certaine himselfe Soule I think so surely Wherfore he dyd as they do that loue y ◠worlds glorie more than the truthe whyche when they know not a thing bicause they will not lose their estimation they wyll not confesse it but speake confusedly that men shoulde rather thinke they wyll not speake it than that they know it not Iust Of how great euil is this worldly pride the cause Soule Yea and that maruellously Consider a little in things of religion that they which the worlde calleth diuines for y t they wil not confesse they do not vnderstande thyngs appertaynyng to Faith by naturall light they haue taken vpon them to proue it by propositiōs of Philosophy which is al contrarie to Faith for that procedeth with order naturall principles and faith excéedeth passeth all nature Iust Who haue these ben Soule Those which commonly we call Scholasticall which haue sought a reason of euery thing that God hath made with their learning Iust I maruell he is not once surely angrie with them Soule That is bycause he is the chiefe goodnesse Iust As for me I knowe no prince but that wold be angrie with his seruant that woulde knowe a reason of all his doings Me think this is plainly to cal God into the consistorie But tell I praye thée whether these be the diuines that are called Paris schole Soule Euen they thou hast hit it Iust Oh those matters are decayde For Bartol y e bokeseller my neighbor hath told me that he selleth no more of thē that he hath an hundred horsloade which he wold barter for cleane paper and giue somewhat to boote Soule Thāk y e Lutherans who giuing no faith but to y e holy Scripture haue caused y ◠men be forced to returne to rede them to leaue such disputatiōs Iust Marke that it is true whiche is sayd That many times of a great euill commeth some good But let vs leaue thys and turne to our talke Soule Of these two sectes which I spake Plato which held I was immortall diuine séeing that I vnderstode euery thyng sayde I was created of God full of all sciences eternally And after when I descended into thée for so God had ordeined that I shold purgo me of certain spots that I had I forgot them al and after by helpe of Schoolemaisters and exercises in studies I returned to my minde and so hée sayde that our learnyng was a remembrance and not a learnyng of newe Iust That opinion I could like wel inough Soule Thou woldest say so if thou heardest the reasons that he maketh whiche be such as they made Origene and many other christian diuines to holde the same opinion and Austen also when he wrote vpon the Genesis although he dyd retract afterward Iust Did Origene reuoke Soule Not that I know Iust And dyd he saye too that you were made of God eternally Soule Yea and that we wer of angels shape whiche opinion was after reproued of the churche as erronious and hereticall Iust Thou makest me now remember of my neighbour which said that our soules were those little Angels which were not comprehended in sin nor in seruice of God but betwéene bothe and were after sent into vs to be determined whether they wold folow good or euil it was neuer knowen he helde this opinion in his lyfe but after his death it was founde in his bokes Wherfore his bones were taken vp and buried out of the church yarde Soule Who was that Iust Mathew Palmer dost thou not remember but thinkest thou he was damned for this Soule I do not beleue it for though this opinion is holden erronious yet he feared God and regarded the honour of the same and he was a louer of his neighbour as thou doest well know in the which things consisteth all christian religion So as it is not to be beleued that a man of so holy and good behauior for holding such an opinion which is not against the honor of God shoulde be damned and
contēplation of the first chief veritie I do not maruel a whit though Sainct Paule which had tasted part when he was rauished to the third heuen did say that he desired nothing else but to be losed from the body and be with Christ and the great delight that I sometime feele when I am frée from the impediments of the body as I am now induceth me to consider it I can with that light that my Lorde hath giuen me in making me like vnto his image and similtude consider the nature of so fayre and diuers creatures sensible of the which this vniuersall is composed and beautified by the meane of them to ascend to the contemplation of celestial and diuine thyngs wherof I say ofte to my self howe ought they to be contente that be altogether attente to regarde in those diuine treasures and my contentation being so great in beholding those fewe knowledges that I haue of thys and them yet am not so perfectly bent to the lyke worke bicause those powers whiles they attend to digestion and other operations necessary to the conseruation of my body be so vnited with me y t I cannot shift but they giue me some impediment albeit by the meane of natural heate they séething the meate do make a fumositie to rise to the head which being ioyned togither do binde the senses and gender slepe whereby I may returne into my selfe as I am nowe O happy be they in déede which being but little occupied in the cares of the world and in the visions that the senses do impresse in their fantasie remain and enioy them selues Certenly it is no maruell though they sometime sée the things to come whereby men do honour them so much and call them Princes half Gods and things verily diuine But alas I can no longer tarie in swéete things and delectable studie for I féele the naturall heat hath so fined and consumed those fumes that cause sléepe that Iust wil wake by and by Therefore let vs returne to our olde businesse if he wil not occupie me otherwyse we wyll talke a whyle together as we haue done Iust Oh with what consolation and what pleasure haue I slept a while I cānot tel whether it hath bē a dreame or other thing which hathe giuen me such a contentation whiles I slept as I thinke I neuer felt suche a comfort in all my life before Soule Thanke me Iust if thou hast had any suche comforte in thy sléepe for I haue ben the chiefe cause therof although thou hast holpe me somwhat with the litle eating thou madest yesterday Iust O my deare Soule I thanke thée very heartily but tel me in what sort hast thou ben the principal cause Soule I not being letted whiles thou wert bounde in sléepe with superfluitie of meate or occupied in anie of oure common occupations I retired into my selfe and there began to bée very busily occupied with certain knowledges which I haue gottē by helpe of thy instrumentes Iust Stay a while and before thou goest any further tell me what thou meanest by being in negotiation for as for me I vnderstande it not Soule Negotiation is nothing else but to be doing and occupied in some thing doing in it asmuch as behoueth and it is a worde that hath his beginning of a latin worde called Negotiū which in our tong signifieth businesse Iust It is of late vsed for I do not remēber that euer I hearde it before Soule So it is but haue not I told thée that from hande to hande when tongs go to perfection that they must take new words for their purpose Iust I begyn to beleue it in déede Soule So as they can not say that sciences cannot be translated into our tong for lack of words for new may be made in ours as hath bē in other Iust It is well now to thy talke Soule Exercising me as I haue said being frée from the impedimentes in those knowledges I felt so great cōtentation pleasure y t I reduced my self into a quiet which dyd not onely make me happy but also did passe into thée holding al thy partes content in them selues wherof came that quiete and swete slepe y t thou hast so praised Iust O if it be in thy power to doe this thou louest me as y ◠sayst why dost thou not cause me to sléepe thus always hauing so much nede of it Soule Bicause of the enmitie that is betwene thée and me or to speke better the contrarietie of nature many times doth not let me do it Iust Howe so mSoule I will not speake now of the impedimentes whiche these organes wherin the senses be exercised do giue me when they be altred of thée either wyth too muche eatyng or drynking or with too muche labour and wyth a thousande other passions but tell me thys howe ofte doe I beyng forced of this thy parte of luste gyue place and leaue thée to do things which be clean contrary to my nature Wherfore I séeing I am commaunded of a power inferiour to my selfe fall into so great discomfort that thou also felest it for our vnion becometh a continual bataile which doth suffer neyther of vs to be at rest Where as yf thou didst obey me and dydst let me holde the bridle in my hande as were conuenient we shoulde liue in suche peace that the operations that procede of me as they that haue their beginning of thée and be giuen vs principally of nature for our conseruation shoulde be broughte to their ende without any difficultie Iust I knowe certainly thou sayst truth and therefore I mynded to request thée that thou woldst giue some order rule of it what I ought to do that we might long kepe oure selues in vnion with the least grief displesure that is possible I wyll not nowe say without any for that I knowe to be impossible in this life But before thou doest this I would desire thée to rid me of that doubt that much troubleth mée and holdes me in suspense and that is as I said vnto thée yesterday morning how thou knowst these things without me Soule It is an harde thyng whiche thou demaundest of me and before this time hath made many fall which haue bene accompted wise into great errours therefore it might be better for thée not to know it for to knowe that nedes not genders more confusion Neuerthelesse for the satisfactiō of thy desire I will tell thée what the opinions haue ben but I will not after that thou with thy discourse of reson shouldest confirme or content thy selfe with any of them but submit thy desire to the determination of christian religion which bicause it is guided of light more cléere and sure than is the sapience of man it can not erre as it doth Iust What light is that Soule The most holy light of faith reueled of God to the worlde by the mouth of his seruants and last by the same of his most sanctified