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A80530 Experience, historie, and divinitie Divided into five books. Written by Richard Carpenter, vicar of Poling, a small and obscure village by the sea-side, neere to Arundel in Sussex. Who being, first a scholar of Eaton Colledge, and afterwards, a student in Cambridge, forsooke the Vniversity, and immediatly travelled, in his raw, green, and ignorant yeares, beyond the seas; ... and is now at last, by the speciall favour of God, reconciled to the faire Church of Christ in England? Printed by order from the House of Commons. Carpenter, Richard, d. 1670? 1641 (1641) Wing C620B; ESTC R229510 263,238 607

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lips so fast that apprehension cannot over-take him talketh with any man and then againe runneth away with his lips but stayeth long in his prayer Which now of these prayers is most acceptable to the Divine will The Spaniards have a form of salutation which is alwayes used as a prologue to their discourses and it is ever the same both in words and forme and it consisteth of severall sentences one answering to another And it is pretty matter of mirth to heare how they runne it over Even so the Papists deale with their Latin prayers when they recite as the terme is so many Pater-nosters and so many Ave-Maries And these Latin prayers were but an earthly invention of man with a politicke purpose to keepe all Churches in Union with the Latin Church and in subjection to it I pity the poore Nuns that spend more then halfe their time of waking in running over what they understand not And I have some pitie for the English Papists who are taught that it is an act of greater merit to pray in Latin though not understood then in English because it hath more of obedience and greater affinity and is more coincident with Church-service The Protestants quarrell about ceremonies But the Popish Priests in my knowledge have opposed one another in such a tumultuous manner that they drew on both sides great persons and whole States into their faction once againe verifying that of Pliny Montes duo inter se Plin. 2. c. 83 Nat. Hist concurrerunt crepitu maximo assultantes recedentesque inter eos flamma fumoque in coelum exeunte two great Mountaines ran violently one against another smoke and fire rising up towards Heaven with a great noise The Pope suffers them to cast away themselves and their deare time upon discourses that hang like rotten carcasses upon a Gibbet which every small winde bereaves of a limbe or two Because the Psalmist singeth of the holy City Jerusalem Her foundation is Psal 87. 1. in the holy Mountains the Virgin Mary is holy in the foundation and consequently free from originall sin Thus the Jesuits But the Dominicans fight likewise with Scripture Non surrexit say they major Johanne Baptista There rose not a greater then John the Bapt. To which the Jesuits answer merrily Indeed there rose not a greater then he but he was not as great as the Virgin because she had never fallen and therefore could not rise If I could part the fray they should let goe this vanity of vanities and preach Christ crucified a little more A plaine Monke said and I was his Auditour that he would never beleeve the words cited out of the Fathers by the Jesuits except he had them in the Fathers because the Jesuits are such knowne corrupters of good things And corruptio optimi pessima the corruption of the best things is the worst of corruptions Certaine papers of an old Monk came to my hands here in England out of which amongst others I tooke this note Dissentiones inter Jesuitas 1 Incarceratos in castro Wisbicensi 2 D. Paget aliosque nobiles Anglos in Belgio 3 Sacerdotes appellantes 4 Milites Anglos in Belgio 5 Benedictinos in Belgio 6 Alumnos Seminariorum Romae alibi He meanes Valladolid for another place 7 Moniales Gravelingae Bruxellae caet I have given it as I found it and so I leave it The Protestants proceed humbly in the preaching of the Gospel without paint or fallacie The Papists ground much upon miracles and yet confesse the world hath beene much deluded by them I have beene resident the space of eight yeares a quarter of my age in their chiefest and most eminent Cities and places of abode and yet was never present at the working of a Miracle Besides the working of Miracles is not an undeceivable signe of the true Faith God hath wrought Miracles by an Heretick Bishop yea by the old Romans for example in the defence of the innocent or to give waight and authority to a close and covered truth What if I should grant that the Papists may worke Miracles in the proofe of the doctrine which teacheth a Trinity of persons in the God-head the Incarnation of Christ the redemption of the world by the shedding of his bloud But I will not bee so liberall Yet God hath wrought Miracles by wicked and unbeleeving people though not to sanctifie their wickednesse and countenance their unbeliefe The famous Epistle of Gregory the great to Austin the Apostle of England will easily Greg. ep ad Aug. S. Just fix and fasten this point And long before his dayes Saint Justine the Martyr was of the same minde Licet saith he haeretici miracula faciant hoc tamen non confirmat haereticos in errore quia miraculorum effectio non semper est pietatis signum demonstratio ut Dominus ostendit cum ei dicunt Domine nonne in nomine tuo prophetavimus Although Hereticks worke Miracles this notwithstanding doth not confirme them in their errour because the working of Miracles is not alwayes an infallible demonstration of piety as Christ sheweth when they say to him Lord have we not in thy name Prophecied cast out Devils The Papists have the name of good and recollected people I can passe my judgement not upon the hearts but upon the lives of three Families which I saw One of which was wholly taken up with sporting gaming hunting revelling The Masters of the other were Spaniards in all their discourses rather then Englishmen which I was sorry to heare And one of them frequented our Churches with his body but not with his heart otherwise they were morall men But Origen speakes as if he knew them Multo nocentior est haereticus bonae vitae plus in doctrina sua habet authoritatis eo qui doctrinam conversatione maculat An Heretick of a good life is much more hurtfull and bringeth more authority to his doctrine then he that spotteth his doctrine with his life And afterwards Idcirco sollicite caveamus haereticos qui conversationis optimae sunt quorum forte vitam non tam Deus quam Diabolus instruxit Therefore let us take diligent heed of Hereticks who are of a refined conversation whose lives perhaps not God but the Devill hath-ordered Their very orders of Religions are even frivolous in many points of their Institutions For if they fore-see a sinne in the exercise of obedience they may not question the suffciencie of the command And both they and their Priests may with more leave and a lesse breach of Law commit Fornication or Adultery or Sodomy or beastiality a thousand times over then marry although Gods Law was antecedent to their vow of chastity and is of more validity yea though we should grant their vow as the vow to be ratified with some limitation by another Law of God because the matter of the vow is of greater perfection It came from the Monke of Doway that not long agoe it was a custome
crafty In this Towne the tricke of counterfeiting is in great request For many vile Caitifes are permitted to counterfeit themselves possessed with Devils and openly in the Churches to make strange signes and motions with the eyes mouth tongue hands and with the whole frame and building of the body to impresse a beliefe into the soft and ignorant Congregation that the Devill is more stirred and they more tormented with the sight of such and such reliques of these and these Images and the like the learned part of people knowing and confessing they are foule dissemblers Here I heard it confessed that the Jesuits were openly convinced in Rome by the Dominicans to have corrupted Saint Austin And that of Saint Brigit and Saint Catherine the one had a revelation from God that the Virgin Mary was not conceived in originall sinne and the other that she was I heard it likewise avouched by themselves that in the Inquisition when they combate with a person whom they cannot crook and bowe to their owne purposes some young Ruffian appeareth to him by night in the most horrid shape of a Devill who telleth him with a voice like a Devill that all of his opinion are damned in Hell and that a very deepe place is there provided for him which must needs work upon a man used to darknesse and affliction and to solitary thoughts But the truth of God is all-sufficient and doth not call deceit to helpe her My reader must thinke in reason that I could not but step aside into a corner and say privately Have I forsook all my noble friends and good fortunes to spot my selfe with deceit and hypocrisie Nothing is more certaine then that the Inquisition is a Den of horrour and deceit The English Jesuits and Monkes have a great account to give for a man who was a Monke in Paris and one of the most able Schollers in the Christian world This Monke wrote a learned booke against equivocation And had formed another booke but it never saw light the subject of which was that the Pope is Antichrist Him they carried having by cunning meanes bended the higher powers to them into the Low-Countries and laid up fast in a Castle neere Brissels and for more terrour they barred him up in a comfortlesse chamber hanging over a Water-mill and had they but stirred a certaine device made for the purpose the whole frame of the boards had turned under him he lost his footing fell downe and been ground into a thousand peeces But they reserved him to bee a more publike example And the like precipice they have at Rome in the Castle of S. Angelo receiving the miserable creature that is throwne downe in every part of his body with most sharpe pikes This Monke they conveyed to the Inquisition at Rome where they so terrified him with the blacke thoughes of being burned that they drove him into madnesse And he was then carried to the Bedlam of Rome and there bound in the necke with an iron collar and secured with an iron chaine to the post of a bed where he spoke the Fathers both Greeke and Latine to the great admiration of all Schollers that were present They are as cruell as we mercifull The Colledges both of Rome and Spaine are seldome without a mad-man In both places I saw examples And the mad man in the Colledge at Rome had beene a fugitive from the Church of England And his words to them continually were vos me fascinastis yee have bewitched me But he was the daily jeere of them all O that the Schollers in our Universities were all as wise as they are learned CHAP. II. THere is a holy place in a Church in Rome called the Sanctum Sanctorum where they receive as they say that part of skin which was cut from Christ in his Circumcision and one of the Popes a great while agoe attempting to looke upon it a mighty storme comming in thunder and lightning and a fierce winde indangered the whole Citie and frighted away his purpose It was an old objection that in Rome when they set a fresh Maid to saile in the Stewes they hang a Flagge a knowne signe out of a window One of our Jesuits in Spaine to blot out this objection said the hanging was exposed in honour of the Sacrament But I being in Rome although some hangings are exposed to glorifie the Sacrament found the objection to be true and sound And it is not agreeable to the decencie of Religion that those eminent Princes the Cardinals should behave themselves with such open curtesie towards noted women noted onely for their publike profession of wickednesse or cover one nakednesse with another the naked wals of their Palaces with pictures moving to lust and venery The deepe Monke at Doway recreated ms with a sweete historicall relation and affirmed the matter to have beene done within a few yeares Their Agent at Rome having recourse to a Cardinall as his occasions wav'd him the Cardinall frowned upon him and urged that the Priests in England as he heard were much given to women The Agent being a subtill head and knowing the inclination of the Cardinall replyed that indeed the English women were a powerfull temptation and that young comely Maids brought the Priests every night to their chambers The Cardinall gave an Italian action with his shoulders and answered Friend if it be so you say truth the temptation is very powerfull and so the quarrell ended and the Cardinall began to be graciously kinde Two chiefe things I much wonder at in the Cardinals First that many of those high persons are men of meane low and inferiour learning Secondly that a young stripling in a thred-bare coate his Uncle being chosen Pope is the next day a most eminent Prince and little differing from a King A notable thing passed in Rome a small time before my arrivall thither It was that the Pope picked a quarrell with the Bishop of Spalato whom he had received into Rome with great pompe comming from us under a colourable pretext that he inclined to the Grecian Schisme For hee would not suffer so great a scandall to goe unpunished lest it should draw others into its owne example and he could not punish it without a colour And therefore he was lodged in the Castle where he quickly dyed of griefe and his body was burned in campo Fiori a place in Rome like Smithfield in London I humbly desire all religious people when they talke of this pamper'd man not to think of me He was not a native of this Countrey and in many things he behaved himselfe like an Atheist and an Epicure he was cut out into a Dissembler when he was young for he had beene a Jesuit I never was but abhorre the name In Ligorne a Towne lying by the Mediterranean Sea and subject to the Duke of Florence I saw the man upon whom part of a wall fell and held him to the ground while he was tooke in the act of
had opened my heart to some Protestants of note concerning my good will to the Church of England which blew up all their hopes For some passages of the Countrey where I lived which had passed in my time had much bowed my heart to a cōsideratiō of what I had formerly known The passages in part were these To confirme the doctrine of worship due to Images it was spread amongst the Papists that the night before a certaine holy Priest was apprehended by a Pursevant all the pictures in his chamber were seen to sweat And to bolster up the doctrine of praying to the Virgin Mary and other Saints it was given out for a fixt truth that a devout person being frighted in his bed with the strange likenesse of a Ghost and calling upon Christ by the holy name of Jesus no helpe appeared but at length turning his speech to the Virgin Mary the Ghost with all possible haste vanished In these parts a great Priest great in body being most talkative in his owne praises perswaded the weaker sort of his faction that he had already cast foure hundred Devils out of a poore needy woman by the vaine exorcizing of whom set out with bold action and a loud voice he raiseth to himselfe a great part of his maintenance For he carrieth her from house to house as poore men doe Apes to shew tricks with her And he had tooke much paines to release her in the house where I lived It is easie to delude fooles but that wise persons should goe astray after a delusion would be a contradiction in wisdome and prove that wisedome were not so well united in it selfe I was present one time when the play was acted For the fat Priest had gathered together the refuse of Papists being the poore silly sheep of people I dare say not one of them knew the biggest letter in the Alphabet into a house standing alone He sate in a Chaire habited with his Priests ornaments The woman kneeled at his frete and turned her mouth and face into strange figures He spoke to the Devill with a commanding voice the Devill answered by the woman He asked the Devill how many Devils had possession of the body The Devill answered all were gone of so many hundreds but onely two Hee commanded the Devill to come up to the top of her longest finger He did so and the finger was held out Having got him there he asked him his name The Devill answered in a grave tone Dildo He commanded the other to the same place and likewise asked his name This Divell also answered Dildo But there the womans wit fell short for she should have given the other Devill another name And here was all that is notable which I saw in the best part of a night who notwithstanding was very curious in seeing And in the word of an honest man I saw nothing but what might easily be and what reason tels me was counterfeit And all the while the poore ignorant people were all on their knees praying upon their Beads knocking their brests groaning as loud as the Patient crying Our blessed Lady help thee The root of the deceit is They say the Devill first entred into her when she entred into one of our Churches to see the childe of a Papist buried to which shee had beene Nurse And still the wonders pluck at our doctrine as here people are frighted from entring into our Churches for feare of being possessed with Devils The plaine simple truth is which I made good by enquiry The woman was alwayes a very idle and lazie person and the childe failing grew poore and discontented and so either fell to her tricks or was easily wrought into them I am a saver here as in other places Onely this I present to the consideration of all wise people If one small part of a County in the small time of a yeere gave plenty of these most ridiculous passages what prankes doe they play every houre in England what in the world I kenw the Jesuite that came to the dore of a great house in England leading an Ape and professing to make sport with him The secret was he desired to win a kinswoman of his abiding in the house To whom afterwards comming as she walked in the fields in hay-time and not being able to bend her to him he drew his knife upon her and had shee not beene relieved by an out-cry she might have beene spoyled by him of her life though not of her religion These and the like strange carriages of heavenly matters scanned in my thoughts moved me at first to separate my selfe a little from the Papists In which time they wrote a very persuasive letter to me Which having perused I sent a letter to a person of quality amongst them wherein for I promised in the beginning of my book to speak the truth in all things I signified to him that my heart failed me and I feared to goe on in my new resolution And in so great a change as the change of Religion after the practice of thirteene yeeres amongst the Papists and all the yeeres of my knowledge it would have beene a miracle if the heart should not have imitated the Seamans Needle turning to the North-pole and have shaked before it had fixt Yet this hapned before I had actually tooke the the habit of a Minister Let them shew mee that I gave them any solid shew I was of their minde since I first made open shew of the profession I now sticke to and they will shew more then they can shew CHAP. XV. I Beganne soone after to compare the two Religions in these words The Protestants have one great Power upon whom onely they depend and to whom alone they flie by prayer in all their necessities observing that of Saint Peter Cast all 1 Pet. 5. 7. your care upon him for he careth for you The Papists have as many hearers and helpers as they have Saints and Angels And yet devotion being divided is lesse warme and the expectation of a benefit from a heavenly power under God doth engage us to performe the highest acts at least of outward reverence to a creature as to prostrate our selves before him and to call upon him in all places as if he were every where The Protestants leane wholly upon the merits of Christ Jesus desiring to suit with that of Saint Paul For by Grace yee are saved through Faith and that not of your selves it 2 Ephes 89 is the gift of God Not of workes lest any man should boast Amongst the Papists their good men all merit and to make the matter sure one meriteth for another And yet as no man can direct an intention to an end but hee must also intend the meanes requisite to the end So no man can truly merit salvation unlesse he likewise merit the meanes necessary to salvation the thing necessary to salvation was the death of Christ therefore S. Aug. Serm. 8 de