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A33929 A compendious discourse about some of the greatest matters of Christian faith propounded and explained between a minister and an enquiring Christian ... : and also may serve for an answer to two books, one called The practical discourse of the sovereignty of God, the other called The death of death, by the death of Christ, written by J.O. : whereunto is annexed a very brief appendix / written by T. Collier. Collier, Thomas, fl. 1691. 1682 (1682) Wing C5274; ESTC R20632 146,911 256

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can be no worse among the Heathen yet ●●d will in time be pacified towards them and return ●●●n when he returns his sinning People Judah and Is●●●l Ezek. 16. 53 61. Zeph. 3. 8. Where is declared ●● universal Judgment of the World and when that ●● finished verse 9. Then will I turn to the People a ●● Language that they may all call upon the Name of the Lord and serve him with one consent The same Judged People shall afterward serve the Lord he saith not my People but the People which fully agreeth with other Scriptures of the same import Psal 102. 22. When the People are gathered together and the Kingdoms to serve the Lord and 22. 27. 86. 9. And many more that might be mentioned and Luk. 12. 48. The servant that miscarried through ignorance shall be beaten little so the word is tho much in it self yet little compared with wilful Transgressors and little fully imports an end of beating and Eternal beating and striping can in no sense be said to be little or few stripes so that an end of or Redemption from the penal part of the second Death though not of loss to the generality of the World both of Jews and Gentiles in times to be effected is most apparent from the Scriptures of truth and I verily believe it 's nothing else but a Traditional Reception contrary thereunto that makes it so strange unto us And as for the threefold state of the World at that day by some so much stumbled at it 's likewise as apparent not only from Psal 64. 8 9 10 verse 8. are the Eternally Condemned ones verse 9 the generality of the World all men verse 10. are the Righteous with the Lord and Isaiah 66. is first a description of the Church in its Glory with Christ verse 10 11 12. 2. The gathering of all tongues and all flesh to worship verse 18 23. 3. The Eternally Condemned ones verse 24. But if our eyes were but half open we might read as much in Mat. 25. 32 c. Where we may necessarily understand three states two mentioned and a third not mentioned but implied 1. All Infants so dying are not there mentioned not being capable of such a sentence either to life or death viz. on the same ●●ounds for feeding or not feeding the Members of Christ which are not a small part of the World 2. All the Heathen World that never heard of Christ or his ●embers and as they have not been nor are capable to ●ew mercy to Christ in his Members so are they ●ot capable of such a sentence it being proper only to Gospel-Professors but indeed that World may not only admit of a threefold state but of three thousand ●a infinite as to us if it be true according to Scri●ure that God will render to every man according to ●s Works 1 Cor. 5. 10. Rev. 22. 12. Christ Some cry out against this Doctrine as grie●●● Heresie and scandalous to the Gospel Min. To this I shall say but little tho I could say much 1. For truth to be accounted Heresie is no 〈◊〉 and therefore no strange thing 2. After the ●●y they call Heresie so believe I and worship God 3. I ●eartily desire they may repent of this in time it being ●●oful sin to call good evil and evil good 4. To ●nder it Heresie and scandalous is to render the whole ●ord and design of God by Christ in the Gospel to ● Heresie and scandalous relative to the Judg●ent and World to come according to the true declara●on thereof as has been plainly and plentifully pro●d before 5. Suppose it true that it were Heresie ●hich it 's far from I query of them whether it ●ould possibly be any more than as a drop to the Ocean ●● respect of the Errours and Heresies held by them●●ves as has been before unvailed 6. And as for ●●s being scandalous to the Gospel I say 1. If to as●●t that God will Judge the World in Righteousness by 〈◊〉 Christ and render to every man according to his ●●rks penal punishment both for measure and time sutable to the Facts of men that he will punish none without a cause nor more than is deserved if this be in good earnest scandalous either to God or Man then I acknowledge I am guilty of this scandal and shall I hope till I dye I conclude this with the saying of Tertullian which I think is true viz. Good things offend none but such as have ill minds Christ Some say suppose all you say about these matters be true yet they question what advantage may be supposed in publishing thereof especially it being an offence to many Min. 1. If there were no worth at all nor advantage in the knowledge of the Glorious design of God to the World by Jesus Christ in the Restitution and World to come certainly he would not have filled his word with the discoveries thereof as he has he would not have made it the work of all his holy Prophets since the World began to speak thereof but to the end that we might understand and believe it to his praise things revealed belonging to us Deut. 29. 29. There being no truth in the Scripture more fully and frequently declared than the Restitution and World to come with the Glories thereof I think I may say the Scriptures abounds and excels in this Act. 3. 21. And what may we conceive from hence but the greatness of the truth thereof and the greatness of our concern to understand and believe it 2. If it be the Faith to which the promise of life in the World to come is made as has been before proved then certainly it concerns us to understand and believe it and the publishing thereof should be no o●ence unto any but rather their joy and though Christ sometime said Joh. 16. 12. I have many things to say unto you but ye cannot bear them now which is by some urged in this matter To this I say that the times before and after the sufferings of Christ much differed afterwards Christ did not forbear the publishing of that to them which they were not capable to bear before he suffered nor did the Apostle forbear the publishing of further truth to them that were dull of hearing Heb. 5. 11. with ch 6. 1 2 3. And the Apostle complains that he was become or esteemed an Enemy because he told them the truth Gal. 4. 16. And indeed a sin and a shame it is that any profest Christians should be offended at the Doctrine of the Restitution of all things the World to come with the Glories thereof it being the Crowning part of the Glorious Gospel of the Blessed God And if men will now be offended at the truth I know no help for it Christ Some say that the World to come is a Mystery and none are capable to understand the perfection of the Glories thereof yet you have undertaken to declare what it is and so have presumed beyond
themselves to do to others as they would they should do to them and the Gospel teaches the same Mat. 22. 37. to 40. and 7. 12. and this is written in all men by nature and is true rational and moral Philosophy and true Gospel Divinity and where it 's not effected it 's by the souls captivation by irrational immoral and sensual lusts and how would the Divine Law of Christ and in the Gospel united to our understandings and reason effect it if taken heed unto A sin and shame it is and dreadful will be the issue thereof that many Learned men who account themselves above others both in Philosophy and Divinity and yet are more immoral than many moral Heathens And as both moral Philosophy and Gospel Divinity unites in teaching the abhorrency of all ungodliness with the practice of all the contrary vertues and duties so would it teach us to abhor all persecution for Conscience sake if attended to it would teach us in this matter to do to others as we would they should do to us the contrary being not only unchristian but irrational No man in his right reason would be content to be forced to believe and worship God as others do contrary to his own light and conscience such in Justice reason it self and light of nature abhors and it 's likewise contrary to the Protestant Doctrine and Faith which is to make the Scriptures our rule in all matters of Faith and practice and not to be compelled to believe as the Church believeth which is condemned by Protestants to be the Popish Faith and not the Faith of Christ And strange it seems to be that Learned men who profess themselves to have most both of Philosophy and Divinity should be so great miscarriers herein I think it may be said without all just occasion of offence that throughout all ages of Christianity Learned men has lien at the bottom of most of the persecutions for Conscience sake surely it came not from their Philosophy or Divinity but from their enmity pride and prophaneness Ps 10. 2. or from some carnal and corrupt ends within themselves must be irrational and irreligious or at best from blind and ignorant zeal Joh. 16. 2. Phi. 3. 6. It 's true the Scripture warns us to take heed of being spoiled by Philosophy and vain deceit after the traditions of men and the rudiments of the World and not after Christ Col. 2. 8 i. e. When our reason turns us aside from the Gospel either in matters of Faith or practice being corruptly exercised and so becomes vain and deceitful and is not pure reason that submits it self to the Divine Law of Christ in all things so far as it understands it And although Rational and Moral Philosophy was and yet is excellent in its time and place and in itself in its degree spiritual being of and from God yet the Gospel is more spiritual and by it men formerly arrived to much of the knowledge of God and themselves and so to a good life in moral virtues and yet might arrive to the same and doubtless were then accepted of God and may yet be so where the Gospel is not known yet where the Gospel comes it will not serve or avail us without the true faith and life of the Gospel but if it being captivated by sensual lusts reject or neglect the Grace of life it renders such the more liable to the Judgment and damnation threatned therein Learned Sirs The Reasons of my dedicating the ensuing Christian discourse unto you are 1. Because the things discoursed on are matters of great if not of greatest concern to the name of God and Christ the glorious Gospel of the blessed God and the spiritual and eternal good of men and therefore of weighttest concern to have the precedency in your meditations 2. Because most of the things discoursed on are not Novel but the controverted things of the past and present times the Doctrine of the Sovereignty of God as exercised towards men the Doctrine of Election and reprobation the general and special grace of God c. being the substance of the discourse and that on which all depends The eighth chapter may at first probably with some seem most difficult yet I doubt not but is founded in and fully comports with the universal design of God and undertaking of Christ in the general grace to the World in the restitution and world to come in times to be effected and seems to be of very great weight to be understood and to have room in our Christian Faith as the top-stone and glory thereof and without which we shall lose the understanding of and Faith in the greatest if not the most glorious part of Scripture and Gospel truth In the discourse I sometimes mention what some others have said about some of the things discoursed on and especially two Books viz. The Practical Discourse of the Sovereignty of God and The Death of Death by the Death of Christ Not designing a particular answer to them nor had I at all mentioned them had they not been sent in by some designedly to lead us aside from that which we believe to be the truth of the Gospel but have stated the truth about these matters to the best of mine understanding from Scripture light which if true the substance of both are answered and must fall to the ground And let none count it strange or tautologies that I so often go over the same things in the discourse it is to shew the incongruity of those invented principles and practices with Scripture light and right reason in all the ways mentioned it likewise being the method of God in Scripture frequently to mention the same things over and over again designedly thereby to inculcate it on the memory and heart that it might not be forgotten 3. Because I think we have ground enough at least to suppose that the Apostasie from the Primitive faith as it was then delivered to the Saints has been too much ushered in by learned ●●●en I suppose that it will easily appear that in all the parts thereof whether the Papabor others some learned man or men lieth at the bottom thereof And likewise has been chief actors in its propagation and therefore it greatly concerns you now at last to be at work for God Christ the Gospel and good of men in good earnest for discovery thereof and reformation therein O that you might have your share in this matter how might you honour God and season the Nation with the truth of the Gospel both in faith and life having the greatest opportunities and advantages in order thereunto in the sincere endeavours of which you may expect Divine direction assistance and blessing and O that this little Essay may tend to encourage herein it being the common advantage and good of all I really design I hope I have not I am sure I would not follow cunning devised Fables for the world and if I am in any
understand it as I have said unless they will have the Roman unity to be the matter intended Which such as it is is maintained by persecutions massacres and blood a union more suting brutes than christian men But we shall one day know that the dreadful divisions among profest Christians is not for wans of a mediator but from our own sinful selves Christ I am well satisfied in the truth of what you have said about this matter in all the parts thereof I desire you to give me some further instructions by way of inference for my learning herein Min. 1. You may learn what bad and sad work they make who deny the general grace of God to men and the general sacrifice of Christ for the world casting contempt and reproch thereupon calling and accounting them adversaries that believe and own it when themselves it is that teach a doctrine and lay a foundation the Scripture knows not viz. that God loved but a few only in the gift of his son and that Christ died only for a few and reprobated all the rest to eternal destruction so denying the Scripture and root up the foundation of Gospel faith and salvation 2. Of the impossibility for any person thereby to have any gospel ground of faith and hope of salvation tho they talk high from fancy and imagination but not from Scripture grounds for from that notion no man can have a Scripture ground of hope it being so exceeding contrary to the gospel and saith thereof the saith of the gospel being that to which the promise is made as I shall shew in the next Chapter there can be no grounded hope of salvation out of the faith thereof 3. It justifieth the practice and taketh off the reproach cast upon such as are instructed in the doctrine of the general grace of God to men viz. that they are adversaries to the truth and are all for that doctrins and discourse as if their religion consisted wholly therein I say it 's no marvel it is so being the foundation of all Gospel faith and without it can be none in the truth thereof even those who oppose it are beholding to it if they held to their own principles without contradiction it would appear to be the most irreligious and ridiculous in the world called Christian but they cannot preach to the world without the help of general grace tho they preach it in the highest contradiction to their own principles which if plainly preached to the people as held and printed would affright the people and shame themselves out of their work If they should tell the people that they bring them tidings of great joy to all people that Christ dyed for the World but it was but for a very few the elect World only and that all the rest were reprobated before the world was that they were made to sin and be damned and that they have no more power to believe unto life than brute Beasts than a stock or a stone or a dead corps and yet for all this it 's their duty to believe and they must be damned the deeper in hell if they do not believe and yet if they do believe if they be not Elect they are but Hypocrites and must be damned This being the spirit and life of that principle and of their gospel in the plain truth thereof which if they dealt honestly with their hearers they ought to preach it being their gospel and faith as in Print and discourse is fully manifest so that did they not mix their doctrine with general grace tho not in love thereto standing in direct opposition thereof to make it savory without which it would appear to be loathsome unto all And therefore the doctrine of the general grace of God by Jesus Christ being the alone foundation savory and saving doctrine of the gospel Christians instructed therein have no cause to be ashamed of the reproach thereof but to glorifie God in this behalf and others may learn to be silent for shame and will when they understand the truth and worth of this glorious doctrine 4. You may learn from hence where the difference about salvation and damnation lyeth and why all are not saved a matter it is of great and weighty concern unto all and that is in believing or not believing the gospel it 's faith and unbelief that makes the difference and not the eternal decrees of Election and Reprobation and want of a Saviour as some unjustly and untruly assert to the dishonour of God the Gospel and wrong of men The condemnation will not be for want of love in God or for want of a sacrifice and Saviour ● but for mens wilful and chosen wickedness and that they shall one day know Joh. 3. 16 19. And therefore let the fomenters of this unholy doctrine be ashamed any more to lay the sin and damnation of the World on the holy and righteous God it being so apparent from the word of the God of truth that it's obedience and disobedience to the Gospel that makes the difference and not the want of a sacrifice and Saviour 3. It gives us to understand the vanity of that doctrine that teaches Justification and Salvation by an inconditional Covenant It 's true that the general parts thereof are wholly inconditional both in promise and performance as before has been shewed and that part only that assureth salvation to sinners with Eternal glory is conditional which is alone pleaded for to be inconditional I may safely say there 's no man on Earth can shew any promise of salvation in the Gospel that is wholly inconditional but that the condition i● either exprest or implyed Mar. 16. 15 16. which is the commission for gospel preaching and salvation and carryeth in it the sum of the whole according to which all promises may and should be understood and was so by the Apostles Act. 2. 38. 16. 31. Jam. 1. 25. Rev. 2. 7 11 17 26. 3. 5 12 21. 21. 7. 22. 14. so that this inconditional covenant in the sense pleaded for is that which the doctrine of the Gospel is altogether unacquainted with Christ Some will grant that there are conditional promisses in the Gospel but withal there are absolute inconditional promises for performance thereof as Sovereignty Pag. 295. called conditional promises and promises of the condition those named are Ezek. 36. 25. Jer. 31. 32. Ezek. 11. 19. 36. 26. with others of like import Min. I doubt not but fully believe that God grants a sufficiency of power for performance of what he requiers or I must be like that evil servant that said he was a hard Master Math. 25. 24 28. Yet 2. I believe it to be a great mistake in the application of those absolute promises to the present time and state which are all promises to the house of Israel and to be performed at their restitution and redemption in the World to come when they shall all return to the Lord
not only Glory but a Glorious place it 's impossible it should be otherwise And why should we be so incredulous herein the place being so plainly revealed in the Scripture 3. That this City the new and Holy Jerusalem shall come down from God out of Heaven into the new and restored World and shall be the Glorious habitation of God in and with Christ and the Saints Eternally in which shall be the Throne of Christ's Kingdom as the Son of David whose Throne was in or very near unto the old Jerusalem a Figure of this Glory which shall be the Glory and Joy of the whole Earth Psal 48. 1 2. 97. 1. The same as Ezek. 48. 35. Which will be the finishing of the Mystery of Gods Gospel-Grace and Glory to Men Rev. 10. 7. with chap. 11. 15. We find not the coming down of this City mentioned till the new Heavens and the new Earth were finished and therefore it must be in the new World Rev. 21. 1 2. Christ Do we not find it mentioned chap. 29. That God and Magog did compass the Camp of the Saints and the beloved City between the Thousand Years and the Judgment by which it seems the City was on Earth before the new Heavens and new Earth or else that the Church was the City Min. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is more properly read Holy they compassed the Camp of the Holy and beloved City and indeed the Saints are the Camp of the Holy and beloved City i. e. They belong to it and so were and are all the Saiuts interested therein and seeking after it Heb. 11. 10 13. 14. And therefore might well be called the Camp of the Holy City tho that was in Heaven true believers are said by Faith to be come to it and probably 't is the place of the Spirits of just men made perfect Heb. 12. 22 23. And are all of the Camp that belong to it and shall with Christ dwell therein when all others shall be without Rev. 21. 27. 22. 14 15. and hence may be and are called the City or have the name of the City called upon them Rev. 3. 12. Christ I shall enquire no farther about these matters but desire you to give me some instructions for my further learning by way of inference som the whole Min. 1. You may learn to understand the great mistakes that have been and yet are about the great matters of the Gospel and the designs of God therein the Restitution of all things the World to come and the Kingdom of Christ therem the Holy City new Jerusalem that shall come down from God out of Heaven all truths of greatest weight and worth and all plainly stated in the Scripture yet almost lost out of our Faith and not only so but we are ready to give them the names of Error and Heresie the Heathens that never heard of the Divine Revelation thereof as is by some observed do generally own another being after Death than in this World in another World but ●●●ows not what it is nor where it shall be some fancy ●●● thing and some another whether this expectation ●● them be from some Divine instinct in Nature or from ●adition or both I shall not undertal●e to determine ●●t a wonderful shame it is that God having given us ● open a Revelation thereof in Scripture and that as ● a effect of Christs undertaking and the most Glori●●● part of the Gospel that Persons in highest pro●esion should be almost as ignorant in these great ●aysteries as the Nations that are without the Gospel of ●●●s Grace and Glory and you may learn the great●●ss of your concern to come right in these things 2. You may learn hence to understand the mista●en notions about the Eternal Judgment which ren●ers God and Christ to be gone beyond all mercy in ●he Judgment to execute Judgment without mercy upon all sorts of People that come short of the special Salvation and Glory Which is 1. Contrary to all rules of Justice that himself has given to men which rules of Justice are to allot a just recompence of reward for every transgression Heb. 2. 2. And only presumptuous sinners and despisers of the Law died with●at mercy Heb. 10. 28. Psal 19. 13. And as for thers that come under the Judgment of stripes the utmost number for the greatest offence might not exceed forty fewer they might give not more Deut. 25. 2 3. To which it 's likely Christ relates Luk. 12. 48. And as for sins of ignorance no stripes were appointed for such whether it was a particular Person or the whole Congregation Lev. 4. 2. 13. They were to offer a Sacrifice and the trespass should be forgiven because it was ignorance And was it thus among t●● Jews and not among the Gentiles also No verily Act. 17. 30. The times of this ignorance God winked at c. And may we not as safely conclude that he does and will ●● do where the People are altogether without and a● ignorant of the Gospel as the Nations were before Christ came in the Flesh and the Gospel published to ● the Nations calling them to Repentance and that as ● Sacrifice for sins of ignorance satisfied under the Law so that one Sacrifice for the sins of the World under the Gospel may be sufficient to expiate all sins of ignorance and in times to procure some Favour Blessing and Peace to the World after they have past the Judgment according as it is written in the Volume of the Scripture that speaks thereof 2. It 's contrary to his own proceedings with men throughout all ages 1. With Adam the first sinner against God of Mankind and we in him it 's true he justly executed the Judgment threatned yet not without mercy both to him and us in that he even in the Sentence of the Judgment set both him and us on the promise of a Restitution and Recovery by the Womans seed Gen. 3. 15. And afterward when he executed Judgment without mercy upon the World by the Flood it was as they were obstinate and presumptuous sinners resisting the Spirit of God and the Preaching of Noah abusing the long suffering and patience of God 120 Years Gen. 6. 3. 1 Pet. 3. 20. And further I think no man durst affirm that that Judgment did include in it the second Death I shall not mention any more particulars but how frequent was it with him in the execution of Judgment both upon his own People and upon the Nations to leave them under the promises of Mercy 1. His own People Isa 1. 26. 4. 4 5 6. 43. 25. Jer. 23. 5 6. But in this the Scripture abounds I need mention no more 2. And as for the Nations Isa 19. 18 22 23. Jer. 12. 15. 48. 47. ●39 With many the like that I might mention It 's contrary to what he has promised both to ● People and to others viz. To be pacified in ●●gment Ezek. 16. 63.