propouÌ„ded som not at all touched neither was there any one Argument to the purpose followed in the same 5. The Prelats took vnto them selues liberty to interrupt at their pleasure those of the other side insomuch that they were checked for it by his Maiestie 6. The Ministers if his Maiestie will giue them leaue will at any time in one weeks space deliuer to his Maiestie in writing a full answere to any Argument or Assertion propounded in that Conference against them by any Prelate and they do here plainely professe that all and every one of them are most vaine and frivolous 6. OPPOSITION These Ministers by oppugning the Prelats doe openly disgrace the Government of his Maiestie and the whole State and therefore noe such favor is to be yeelded to them ANSWER 1. If the aforesaid Propositions be all of them true such as will be iustifyed by the written word of God theÌ„ the Ministers who heerein seeke nothing but the bare defence of that truth contayned in them which is of so great importance cannot be truly charged with any vndutifull behavior toward King or State if they be not true this tryall will make it manifest to all men and that to the greater shame of these Ministers 2. They doubt not whatsoever the Prelats shall intimate to the contrary but that this Conference will much redound to the Honor of his Maiesties person and GovernmeÌ„t For by it that truth shall appeare which how soever it hath been generally receaved in other Churches abroad hath been hitherto either vnknowen among vs or much obscured by the Prelats their friends albeit it doth indeed concerne and that deeply the true ordinary meanes of saving our soules 3. The Ministers are heerein so far from seeking to disgrace the King or his Gouernment that they would esteeme it a singular blessing of God if they might be so happy as to obtaine that the aforesaid Propositions containing in them the nature of Christs true Visible Church Ministerie and Worship may by his Maiesties speciall order and appointment be examined and determined in such a most reasonable and vnpartiall Conference as before is tendered wherevnto they make no question but they shall finde his Maiestie willing inough if the Prelats do not vnder hand procure him to hinder it 7. OPPOSITION It is not meet that the Governors of the Church should in this maner debase themselues vnto such meane and privat persoÌ„s ANSWER 1. They are no privat persons being publike Ministers of the Gospell and diuers of them of as good estimation in the Schooles for their knowledge in Divinitie and Humanitie and as reverend for their yeares as any of the Prelats are 2. Some of the principall of the Prelats haue already more disgraced themselues in this kinde theÌ„ they should by yeelding to such a Conference as this is The Bishop of Winchester as is well knowen vndertooke the Answer of M. Iacobs last booke The Bishop of London professed openly in his CoÌ„sistory that he would shake out of the raggs that booke which the Ministers of Lincolne Dioces delivered to his Maiestie the Abridgment whereof is published in print Doctor Felton also at the request of the Archbishop vndertooke to answer the Treatise of Divine worship which bookes maintaine and defend in substance the aforesaid propositions And though two years are now allmost past yet noe Answer to any of them appeareth 3. The Prelats may chose whether themselues will personally deale in the Conference or not they may assigne heerevnto their ordinarie Champions who haue for their preferment alreadie put forth themselues in the cause And who for greater hopes wil be ready to vndergoe this service 8. OPPOSITION This very Offer is enough to iustifie the former proceeding of the Reverend Fathers against the Ministers and to manifest how intolerable they are in this state They pretended in their first Petition to his Maiesty no desire of innovation of the Government but only the remouall of a few Ceremonies and some other supposed corruptions Now they haue manifested their hypocrisie to all the world which the Bishops foreseeing thought it needfull to take this course against them For nothing will satisfy these fellowes but either the overthrowe of Bishops or at least wise their freedome from them And therefore can any blame the Bishops if they giue them the same measure that they if they had the power in their hands would mete vnto them ANSWER 1. If the Ministers doe now cut deeper at the roote of the Prelacie theÌ„ heretofore they haue done it is because since their late proceedings they haue seene more into the mysterie of injquitie that worketh in their spirituall Dominion then ever they saw before And therfore they must thanke themselues for it 2. It is now made manifest to the whole world that there is no hope of freedom from the spirituall bondage of Antichristian Traditions so long as the Prelats sit in their Thrones but a more direfull expectation of greater slaverie and servitude then ever before as may appeare by the late Canons and their other proceedings And therefore howsoever some reverend Ministers nourish still many hopes that the Prelats will at length shew mercy and be content to let them in joy the libertie of their consciences and suffer them to exercise a Ministerie under them yet they that make this Offer seeing no likelyhood nor possibilitie of any such matter but of the cleane contrarie the Prelats having in so high a degree blasphemed and persecuted this truth of God they thinke themselues now bound in conscience by all honest good meanes to seeke to be freed froÌ„ that estate which cannot as it appeares now to all the world uphold it selfe G. Powel Adiaph â—…ef but by the ruine of the Gospell and exaltation of Antichristianisme For they that plead for their Government and Traditions are driven to hold these impious and irreligious Absurdities D. Covil â—…ainst the â—…ea of the â—…n pa. 19. * That Christ is not the Law-giver of his Church That it is a vertuous obedience to rest as well in that which the Church commandeth unto us as in that which God commandeth to his Church Hutton 〈◊〉 the Cross â—â—g 3.4 That the Church is ruled by the spirit of Christ who is the truth and therefore her Traditions are true and holy Hooker â—ef pag 28. 〈◊〉 That God alloweth men to doe that which in their private iudgment it seemeth yea and perhaps truely seemeth B. Roch. â—ermon at â—ampton â—ourt p. 31. that the Law doth disallow § That vnwrit ten Ordinances aswell as written are Divine and Apostolike in the constitution of the chiefest Office and Ministerie of the Church 3. They doe no further desire their freedom from the Prelats from that power which they haue then they shall be able to proue that it is lifted up against the Doctrine and Kingdome of Christ our Lord. 4. They leaue their overthowe to God and the King
our CoÌ„sciences as being perswaded in our very soules that we cannot yeeld unto them without sinning against Christ Iesus whose Ministers and Messengers we are And if upon such a due Triall of our cause as is desired the truth of the ensuing Propositions which are the speciall groundes on which we stand shal be infringed by the Prelates nay if we shall not be able to make them so cleere and manifest by the infallible undeniable evidence of the holy word of God that who so doth not wilfully hoodwinke himselfe may plainely see and discerne the truth of them we doe heere promise and binde our selues in the word of Christians that we will presently change our mindes and become wholly Conformable to the present State Wherefore we being herein privy to our owne uprightnes both to God to our Soveraigne cannot but conceiue some hope notwithstanding all the contrary plottes and practises of the Prelates that your Maiestie who are even as an Angell of God to discerne betweene good and evill wil be pleased now at last both to take a more exact knowledge of our cause and out of the tender bowells of your compassion to thinke upon and pity the distressed estate not onely of us the Lordes poore servants who are without any iust cause cast out from serving at his Altar but also of the Churches of Christ in this land which doe mourne and grone under the burden of humane Traditions Oh that this should be told at Gath or published in the streetes of Ashkelon amongst the daughters of the uncircumcised that under the Governement of so worthily renowned and famous a Prince the Churches of God haue been thus miserably wasted and such a woful havock made in them by vsurping time-serving Prelates as the like hath never been heard of in this land under the Gospell Oh that this should be either said or written in succeeding ages that in the raigne of Noble King Iames whose name shall liue amongst men when he having finished his course shall sleepe with his Fathers so many painefull Preachers of the Gospell even three hundred or there-aboutes haue in one yeere and a litle more been turned out of Christs service onely for refusing such Ceremonies as haue their life breath and being from Poperie and such a Subscription as the like for ought we know hath neuer been urged upon any Church of Christ in any age under a Christian Magistrate there being in the meane time whole swarmes of idle Idole scandalous Popish and Non-resident Ministers tolerated every where amongst us The Prelates haue left no meanes of rigour and extremitie vnassayed for the suppressing of this cause and for the discouraging and daunting of all those that either speake or write for it and yet the glorious evidence of the truth is such that it wanteth no witnesses there being at this day many hundreds of the most painefull profitable Preachers in this Kingdome besides those alreadie turned out which are readie to lose both their Ministery their Maintenance and to expose themselues theirs to all manner of misery rather then they will renounce this Cause and conforme themselues to the Corruptions of the times If therefore there be in the Prelates any loue of the truth or any sparke of desire of the peace and prosperitie of our Churches which is the thing that they so much pretend unto your Maiestie it will now appeare and shew it self and you shall easily discerne it by their indeavour to procure the admittance of this Offer which is the likeliest the readiest way that hitherto hath been thought upon both to finde out the truth and to put a perpetuall end to all these long-continued Controversies Some other thinges there be which we would willingly haue brought to this or the like Triall as namely the Oth ex officio which is a cruell a racking of the minde as the most exquisite Torture can be of the body and sundrie of the late Canons But because they be of another nature and we take them to be not onely contrary to the word of God but also directly against the lawes of the land we mention them not in our Propositions in which we haue endevoured to set downe onely the groundes of all the maine differences betwixt us the Prelats which if they be once throughly debated soundly agreed upon your Maiestie shall see such a blessed vnitie and vniformitie in all the Churches within your Dominions as your owne heart desireth May it therfore please your most excellent Maiestie to reade examine this Offer to weigh in all the partes therof the equitie iustice of it the most certaine advantage that the truth on which side soever it is shall receiue by the acceptance of it may it please you likewise to urge the Prelates whom it deepely concerneth to admitt of it and to secure by Royall protection those that shal be Actors in it who howsoever they are forced to conceale their names in regard of the rigor and severitie of the Prelates will notwithstanding be most willing readie to shew themselues if your Maiestie shall vouchsafe to signifie your gratious pleasure touching the admittance of this Conference If therefore we haue found favour in your Maiesties eyes and if this great cause of Christs be regarded Our humble suite vnto your Highnes is that you would make it knowne by some publike Act that the Offer shal be accepted and they protected by your Royall Authority that haue or shall haue to doe in it So shall we haue occasion every day more and more to intreat the Lord as we haue done and will doe for ever that he will continue vpon your Maiestie with a happy increase all his graces both bodily and spirituall even untill and in the day of Christ The Lord Iesus blesse your Maiestie and your Royall posteritie and graunt vnto you a long and a happie raigne over us the Lord multiplie all his mercyes upon you both for this and a better life and cover with shame the faces of all such as wish you the least evill Amen Your Majesties obedient Subjects most readie to doe your will in all thinges wherein they shall not disobey the will of God Some of the late silenced and deprived Ministers A CHRISTIAN AND MODEST OFFER OF A MOST INDIFFERENT CONFERENCE or disputation about the maine and principall Controversies betwixt the Prelats and the late sâ—â—nced and deprived Ministers in England TENDERED BY SOME OF THE SAID MINISTERS TO THE Archbishops and Bishops and all their adherents Wherein are set downe 1. The Propositions which the Ministers offer to maintaine against the Prelats 2. The Conditions forme and maner of the Conference or Disputation 3. Iust Considerations moving the Ministers to make this Offer 4. An Answer to such opposisions as may be made by the Prelats against yeeiding to the said Offer 1. THE PROPOSITIONS VVHICH THE MINISTERS OFfer to maintaine against the Prelats 1. ALL matters meerely
subject only to the authoritie and jurisdiction of the Civill Magistrate to whom at all times they are willing and readie to yeeld an account of all their actions and to humble themselues under their censures for any thing they shal be found to offend in Conforming themselues unto their willes in all things alwayes so farre as they may with a good conscience and where they cannot so doe submitting themselues to all such punishment as it shall please them to impose upon them 15. That if it seeme not good to his Majestie the state for reasons best knowne unto themselues to admit of so indifferent honest and reasonable a Conference yet it would please them to requyre the Prelats to publish a direct and full answer to such bookes as haue upon occasioÌ„ of the late stormes been published viz. The Abridgement set forth by the Ministers of Lincolne Diocese The Demands Considerations Reasons proving a necessitie of reforming our Churches in England The old Protestant and New formalist The Treatise of Divine worship The 12 Arguments The English Puritanisme and the Protestation c And that it may be lawfull for the Ministers modestly and directly to reply vnto the said Answers as also to any of the bookes which are lately or haue been heertofore written against them their cause and to publish the same in print with leaue of authority which they under take and binde themselues with all convenient speed faithfully and honestly to performe they protesting heere before Almightie God the searcher of all hearts and the just revenger of all hypocrisie that to their knowledge there hath as yet no material thing been writteÌ„ against them in these foresaid Propositions or any other Controversie betwixt them and the Prelats but they are able to giue a reasonable and just reply unto the same and that by those bookes which haue been published against them they haue been rather confirmed strengthened in the sayd opinions which they hold against the Prelats then any way satisfied or answered as shall appeare to all the world by Gods gracious assistance if they may haue permitted unto them that liber tie to publish their writings to the world which the Pre lats take unto themselues 16. That if this most reasonable and just course of composing these controversies be denyed them yet at least they may haue free leaue to publish and to offer to the censure of the whole world nakedly and playnly all those several Arguments Reasons which they haue thought upon for the confirmation of the former Propositions as also their direct Answers to all such Arguments on the contrary side as they shall finde publâ—shed in the writings of the Prelats and their adherents In all which they promise to keepe themselues closely directly to the poynts in controversy in so strict a forme that it shal be most easy for the Prelats to giue an answer unto them if so be they be in error in holding the said Propositions 3. Iust Considerations moving the Ministers to make this offer MAny of the Ministers having by reason of their Deposition from the publike Ministerie more cause occasion and leasure to studie these controversies then before doe find that the more they wade into them the more they are confirmed in that truth for which they suffer So that howsoever the intendment of the Prelats hath been by their rigorous extremitie of affliction to make them to force their consciences against conscience to yeeld that so they might rejoyce in their flesh and though the Lord hath surrered their rod to the further hardening of their hearts to ly so heavie upon some of his servants that they haue put forth their hand to injquitie yet othersome by this meanes are so far from shrinking from the profession of that truth which by their sufferings they haue honored that the more they haue sustayned for it the more by the mercy of God they see the glorious evidence of it And therefore in honor vnto that heavenly truth they can do no lesse then in the feare of God make this offer vnto the greatest enemyes therof 2. This cause which the ministers professe and witnes vnto by their constant sufferings being as they are perswaded in theire very soules and consciences a divine sacred truth and being notoriously reviled and blasphemed as a hellish error by the mouthes of the prelats their favourers one saying that he damned the discipline to Hell froÌ„ whence it came Vaghan his Conâ—orie in uses Powel de diap pref others publishing in print that Christ is not the Lawgiver of his Churh all generally calling our doctrine and opinion in this cause Schisme and Haeresie yea Treason and Rebellion they having receaued this grace from God not only to see the truth heerein but to seale and confirm it by their sufferings thinke it a most bounden duty that they owe vnto their Lord and master Iesus Christ whose Ministers and Servants they are by all good meanes to iustifie the same yea though they neither had suffered nor should suffer for it Much more now when as by the providence of God they haue in themselues their wiues and children sustained indured so heavy things for it And a more honest moderat Christian and religious defence or Apology they cannot yeld vnto it theÌ„ by making such an offer as this is to the avowed enemyes thereof 3. It is notorious vnto all the world what indignities sianders false accusations and calumniations ouer and besides the other Legall proceedings as they are pretended to be the Prelats and their adherents in their privat speeches publike sermons and writinges lay vpon those Ministers that hold maintaine this cause proclaiming theÌ„ to be Obstinat Refractarie persons Enemyes to the King State Notorious manifest Schismatikes Turbulent spirits Chaplin wel in 〈◊〉 Considetions Contemptuous and disdayning the Authoritie of their lawfull Gouernors presumptuous and wilfull Contenders with the Magistrat Impugning his authority in thinges indifferent and Soueraigntie in Ecclesiasticall cause False Prophets Members rent and cut of from the Church of God Runawayes from their Ministery some standing vpon these points of difference not for conscience but for carnall respects som because otherwise they knowe not how to be maintayned but by depending on that faction som to gratify their benefactors patrons and to please their friends som for discontentment and want of preferment som for giddines of innovation som for pride of hart and selfeloue som for hatred of order and restraint of their libertie som for ignorance yet willfull because they will not knowe the state of the question some to retaine the opinion of constancy c. Now it being the duty of every Christian even for Christs sake and the Gospells which he doth professe to cleere his innocencie against such false and impious slanders much more is it fit for the Ministers of the Gospell being thus wickedly traduced so to do And therefore they
the chiefe of the Prelats Consid pâ—… G. Powell hath published That his excellent Majestie as he loved these Ministers dearliest of all others so he sought the more earnestly to reclayme them by some correction So that either the Prelats heerein haue offered his Majestie open wrong in proclaiming his speciall favor to the said Ministers or else they are not to doubt but in the abundance thereof he will vouchsafe to those poore distressed and chastised favourits of his so much grace as to command that this Offer may be accepted and by his Royall assent to confirme the same 12. The Apologeticall books which the Ministers haue been constrayned from time to time to publish in defeÌ„ce of their Persons and Cause can not come to the hands scanning of those powers that next under God are most able to relieue them And therefore for the cleering of their innocencie and the justifiyng of their cause which is indeed the cause of God they are coÌ„strayned to make this publike and solemne Offer by meanes whereof it may come to passe that all men may take notice of the goodnes of the cause and of the grosse wrongs they haue sustained and indured for maintayning the same 13. His Majestie signified to the Committies of the Lower house Supplicating on the behalfe of the Ministers that before mercy there must goe a submission and that if they looke for mercy at his hands they must acknowledge a fault This is that which they desire If it can be proved that they haue offended his Majestie in the least thing they desire no mercy till they acknowledge a fault and submit them selues for the same But it is no doubt far from the heart of so Royall a Prince to require either Confession or Submission wherther is no transgressioÌ„ For their owne parts they are perswaded and resolved that that truth for the professing wherof the Prelats proceed so severely against them is most behoofull for his Majestie his Crowne and dignitie and the whole State And that in yeelding heerin in unto the Prelats they should make a breach in that dutie which by Gods law every true hearted and loyall subject in this kingdome oweth both to the King and State And yet if they be in an errour there can be no more direct and likely course used to bring them unto a submission for the same then to haue these poynts freely debated by the acceptance of this Offer 14. When the Ministers consider the dayly increase of Papists their treacheries and conspiracies their insolent bouldnes the continuall broaching of grosse and Popish errours what litle molestation the Papists haue by the government of the Prelats yea what favour they find secretly and under hand what resistance was made to the Lawes intended to haue been made against them especially by some and those not the meanest of the Prelats what light matters are made of their horrible Treasons and damnable opinions what litle execution there is of the lawes against them they haue reason to feare that before they are aware as it were in a dreame if the raynes be in this maner left in the Prelats handes for matters of religion the neck both of his Royall Maiestie and of the whole State shal be brought under the yoke of the Pope that Antichrist of Rome and his divelish jdolatrie And therefore in a serious mediatation of the best meanes to prevent this great imminent evill which lyeth working in a mysterie they cannot thinke of a more direct course then this open and professed Opposition unto the Prelats in the foresaid Propositions wherein if they shall prevaile they shall not onely giue a deadly wound to the Prelacie it selfe but to the accursed Religion of Rome from which at least if it be held to be Iure divino it receaveth both breath and life For who was so simple that saw not that at his Majesties first coÌ„ming to the Crowne when the Prelats hangd downe their heads in suspense feare the Papists hearts were as dead as stones and that the very first Proclamation against the Ministers in behalfe of the Prelats revived the Papists againe And that ever since with the increase of the grace favour and authoritie of the Prelats the hopes bouldnes and nombers of Papists haue increased And therefore howsoever the Prelats may mocke children and fooles in imputing the Ministers yet any that wisheth the confusion of that Antichrist may with halfe an eye see where the true cause is And therefore they seeing this except they should be wilfull traytors to God their King and Country cannot but make opposition unto the Prelats in approving the Propositions aboue specified wherein if they be in an error and the Prelats on the contrary haue the truth they protest to all the world that the Pope and the Church of Rome and in them God and Christ Iesus himselfe haue had great wrong indignitie offered unto them in that they are rejected and that all the Protestant Churches are Schismaticall in forsaking Unitie and Communion with them 15. The former Propositions are such that there will not be found as we are verily perswaded in our consciences any one Conformable Minister in this kingdome except he be a masked Papist that will refuse to Subscribe to any one of theÌ„ if so be it would please the King and State by Law to urge them thereunto under such penalties as the Ministers are urged to subscribe unto the Articles devised by the Prelats Yea we are out of all doubt that the Prelats themselues if it were pressed upon them by the King and state vnder paine of deprivatioÌ„ from their Bishopricks would not stick to avouch vpon their othes that the Ceremonies and Subscription for which the Ministers stand suspended and deprived are wicked and vngodly such as no good Christian ought to yeeld vnto Nay if the case stood but vpon the sauing of their Temporaltyes thereby which else they should loose we doubt not but they would with heart hand subscribe to any one of the aforesaid Propositions Sith therefore it is more then cleere that they haue Offered plaine violence vnto the Consciences of all most all the conforming and subscribing Ministers that even contrarie to their owne consciences they haue proceeded against their poore bretheren because they will not by conformitie subscrâ—ption renounce the truth contayned in these propositieÌ„s can any blame the said Ministers if hauing not only the said truth on their side but in likelyhood the Consciences of the Prelats also they make such an Offer as this is 15. It is agreeable to common sense and reason and the Bishop of Chichester hath some such thing in his Lectures vpon the Commandements that doubtfull actions should all-wayes giue place vnto those that are out of all doubt question Seeing therefore no good Protestant ever doubted but that it is lawfull enough in it selfe to administer the word and sacraments in common and ordinary civill
and doe only by these premisses labor that that truth which hath been amongst vs long suppressed and afflicted may come to light and may be so honored and freed at last as God requireth that it should be 5. If the Callings of the Prelats be warrantable and of Divine ordinance as Bishop Barlow avoucheth in his late Sermon then the yeelding vnto this Offer wil be a notable meanes to establish the same and can no wayes be derogatory vnto it for no Divine ordinance will fly or feare any such Tryall But if it be vnlawfull as it will be supposed of all men to be even in the cōsciences of the Prelats if they shall refuse this Offer thē indeed this Tryall can be no meanes to iustify the Prelats who ought in such a case either to giue ouer their places or at least to suffer those that haue their consciences perswaded of the vnlawfulnes of their Callinges to be free even as Christ hath made them free both from them and their Government 9. OPPOSITION This Offer proceeds from them who wil be satisfyed with nothing If they should haue the Discipline granted them and all that they desire they would not stay there that would not contēt them At the first they stood vpon a few Ceremonies only after this they cryed downe with Bishops and when they haue their de sire in this then let the King looke to himselfe ANSWER 1. This is but a malicious surmise of that whereof there is noe ground the Propositions before set downe makeing it more then manifest that as the Ministers haue not any the least intention to impeach the Royall dignity so likewise they doe much more advance the same indeed thē the Prelats do 2. The practise of all other Reformed Churches inioying the Discipline which is desired confuteth this slanderous obiection in as much as they rest content under the same without seeking or indeauoring any vaine or rebellious innovation 3. Though some Ministers haue stoode upon the Ceremonies onely yet many of them haue from time to time witnessed vehemently and in speciall maner against the Prelacie according as God hath opened their understanding in this point though som of them at the first did not sufficiently consider how unlawfull and unwarrantable it is and this is no more preiudiciall either to them or to the cause then it was to the Apostle Paul for teaching that doctrine afterward which at first he understood not or to those now professing the Gospell who in times past haue bene ignorant Papistes enemies to the trueth 4. The Ministers desire not that either the Discipline or any thing els should be yeelded unto them or that they should haue their willes satisfied in any thing further then they are able to proue the thing for want whereof they are unsatisfied to be due unto them by the word of God And so far forth they thinke it lawfull for them or any els to shew themselues unsatisfied it being a grieuous Sinne for any in matters of Religion and meanes of Saluation to content themselues with lesse then God will haue them to be content withall The Ordinances of God will content them sufficiently and nothing will discontent them but to be depriued of any of the same they all being ordinary meanes of Saluation And is it not an Antichristian spirit that would binde men to any other Content If in their discontent they desire any thing that God doth not require them to desire there may be as many meanes found then as now to bridle their desires 5. Their advising the King to looke to himselfe when Ceremonies Diocesan Bishops are downe is a Scarcrow fitter to fright Dawes away then to hinder so wise a Majesty from yeelding his furtherance to so Christian an Offer The Ministers therefore doe heere againe professe to all the world that they no further desire the overthrowe of the Prelats then they shall proue that their standing is derogatory both to Christ to the King and that they take nothing from the Prelats but what they giue to Christ his Church the King the Civill Magistrats vnder him the Prelats unjustly keeping that from them which by the word of God is their due and which the said Ministers are readie to yeeld unto them before they desire to see the overthrow of the Prelats who we doubt not will appeare to be enemyes though in a mysterie to God to the King and to his people even in their very Callings and Offices 10. OPPOSITION Shall we hearken to the Offer of such as are not yet agreed amongst themselues what they would haue There are not two of them of one minde and therefore it is to no purpose to hearken unto them Let them first agree amongst themselues and tell us what they would haue and then they shall be heard ANSWER 1 They are all agreed alreadie vpon these poynts that the Ceremonies are scandalous and ought by those that are in authoritie to be removed that the Ecclesiasticall Government of other reformed Churches is more agreeable to the word of God then the Government by Diocesan Prelates that Pluralists Nonresidents and dumbe Ministers ought not to be tolerated in any Christian Church that it is fitter we should conforme our selues to other Reformed Churches in our Liturgie Ceremonies Discipline then to the accursed Synagogue of Rome Their differences are onely about the maner of maintayning these pointes Let them hearken to the Ministers in the things wherin they all are alreadie agreed and they will not trouble them with any disagreements Yea they shall finde that in their differences they will agree better then they would haue them 2. If they disagree so among themselues as the Prelats would beare men in hād they haue the lesse cause to feare them may with more hope of prevailing enter into this Tryall with them But the truth is that their differences are neither halfe so many nor halfe so great as those that be among the Prelats 11. OPPOSITION Either their Propositions are false and sufficiently confuted by their owne practise or if they be true then why doe they ioynt to our Church which is gouerned by the Prelates why doe they desire to execute a publike Ministery under them why doe they not wholly with the Brownists separate and get them to Amsterdam to their holy brethren there ANSWER 1. The practise of the Ministers herein is no way contrary to their Propositiōs this is a most desperate shift in the Prelats to press thē herewith 2. They protest to the shāe of the Prelats to the testifying of their charitable loue to those of the Ministerie which are otherwise minded thē themselues that they are perswaded that many of the Conforming Ministers are notwithstanding the great defects and corruptions in their calling and standing true Ministers of Iesus Christ and indued with gifts from heaven for that holy functiō And that the Churches which they teach howsoever in their Constitution very
defectiue and unperfect are true Churches whose willing subjecting themselues unto their Ministerie maketh the very outward calling it selfe of the said Ministers to be such as it is And therefore so long as their consciences being in the meane time vnconvinced of these their errors wherein they stād God taketh not away their Ministeriall gifts frō them and so long as their Churches cleaue unto them though in their entrance continuance they were and are guiltie of much sinne in approving by Conformitie and Subscription the Iurisdiction of Prelats they thinke it not just wholly to separate from them and their Ministerie but are content though with some griefe and sorrow so far forth to joyne with them in the worship of God as they can without their personall Communion with them in those corruptions which in their weaknes they yeeld vnto 3. If the Prelats shall still hold the things in question in such sort as of late they haue done shall vrge them so hotely as they begin both the Ministers many of the people wil be forced to leaue their ordinary standing in these Churches In which regard they humbly pray that they may be exempted from the Prelats may haue liberty granted vnto them by the King to serue God according to his owne will revealed in his word without any Humane Traditions As for that publique Ministerie derived from the Prelats besides that it cannot be entered into without yeelding to corruption sinne it is also very defectiue to speake the truth little more then a halfe Ministerie if it be compared with the Pastorall Office commanded and commended vnto vs by the Holy Ghost Which the Ministers discerning and perceaving plainly that there is litle or no cōfort to be had in the exercising of such a Ministerie as hitherto they haue injoyed they are bold to make their humble Suite to his Maiestie that they may be freed from the Prelats vsurpation over them and may be vnder the guidance Censure of the Civill Magistrats unles by such an indifferent Tryall as is heere Offered the Prelats shall iustify their Callings and Courses to be of God 12. OPPOSITION A vaine thing it is to yeeld to any such Offer For who must iudge on which side the truth is They name none And when they haue been heard to oppose and Answer what they can they will not stand to any mans definitiue sentence but will continue obstinate still ANSWER 1. In desiring that the whole cariage of this intended Conference may be published they make all the world to be Iudges thereof even the Prelats and the Papists them selues all that shall read the same 2. They do not think it lawfull in any matter of Religion much lesse in matters of so great consequence to settle their consciences vpon the definitiue sentence of any person absolutely that is so far as to renounce any thing which they haue believed because such or such iudge it to be otherwise For so they might both headily wilfully betray the truth of Christ and inthrall themselues to error and also detract from Christ and his blessed word their proper right and giue it unto men It should therefore content any Christianly affected man that the Ministers are content to offer their Defence of these poynts to the view of all to skan and to weigh thē and so far forth to judge therof as if their reasons do not satisfie them to giue them leaue to condēne them of error which wil be a Iudgment heavie enough to them if notwithstanding they shall still persist in their former opinions 3. It may please God that by the evidence and force of those Arguments or Answers that shal be propounded both sides may thinke themselues satisfied and one side yeeld If the Prelates haue this grace to yeeld then his Majesty the State know best what they haue to doe in such a Case If the Ministers yeeld then the greatest matter that can be expected of them is Submission and Conformity which if they shall refuse the Law is open so that in this case there needes no Definitiue sentence of a Iudge It both sides rest vnsatisfied and continew perswaded still that the truth is on their side it were impious for either side in such a case to commit the absolute determination therof vnto the will and pleasure of any man or men whomsoeuer And it were vniust for either side to require Iudges either incompetent or not indifferent For as the Prelats might iustly except they would wilfully betray their owne cause refuse such to be Iudges as haue in any degree inclined more to the Ministers then to them so may the Ministers in like maner as iustly refuse to stand to the Iudgment and determination of such as incline more to the Prelats then to them much more of such as haue shewed themselues maine patrons and vpholders of the Prelats and adversaries to the Ministers Sith therfore the Prelats can not set forth any person or persons to whom it is meet to commit the absolute determination of so great a cause it were very vniust and vnequall to binde the Ministers to stand to the judgment of those that are partiall 4. It is needles to name Iudges his Maiestie the Civill Magistrats vnder him and the High Court of Parliament though the Ministers should appeale from them would in this case judge thē and their Cause yea and are bound soe to doe Whose Iudgment if it goe against the Ministers and it appeare to be righteous the more they shall neglect the same and refuse to submit themselues vnto it the more grosse refractary they shall shew themselues to be and with the more honor and credit may the State ioyne with the Prelats in making and executing Lawes for the suppressing of them and their Errors which is as much advantage as any Christian can desyre over any Enemies of the truth And what would the Prelats haue more Prov. 19.21 Many devises are in a mans heart but the Counsell of the Lord shall stand Math 22 21. Giue unto Caesar the thinges which are Caesars and giue unto God those things which are Gods
A CHRISTIAN AND MODEST OFFER OF A MOST INDIFFERENT CONFERENCE OR DISPVTATION ABOVT the maine and principall Controversies betwixt the Prelats and the late silenced and deprived Ministers in England TENDERED BY SOME OF THE SAID MINISTERS TO THE Archbishops and Bishops and all their adherents 1. Thess 5.21 Trie all things and keepe that which is good Ioh. 7.24 Iudge not according to the appearance but iudge righteous iudgment Ioh. 18.23 If I have evill spoken beare witnes of the evill but if I haue well spoken why smitest thou me Imprinted 1606. TO THE HIGH AND MIGHTIE PRINCE IAMES BY THE GRACE OF GOD KING of great Britaine France and Ireland Defender of the faith c. MOst High and mightie Soveraigne As it is the office of every Christian to endevour by all good lawfull meanes to procure the peace and prosperitie of Sion so is it principally required of the Ministers of the Gospell of Iesus Christ not onely that they be Gods Remēbrancers giving him no rest untill he set up Ierusalem the prayse of the world but also that they be humble suiters unto those that under him be in supreme soveraigne Authority that according to their places they will become nursing Fathers nursing Mothers to the Churches of God within their Dominions And as this is a duety that lyeth both upon Minister people at all times for the neglect whereof they shal be accountable to that great and mightie God whose servants they are so are they then especially to be carefull of it when they see the truth of God and the Ordinances of Christ Iesus the sole King and Prophet of his Church to be opposed oppugned and the syncere Professors of the Gospell maligned and traduced yea oppressed and in a sort troden under foote by men who seeke nothing but themselues and who for the maintayning of their owne Pompe and for the feeding of their idle bellies stick not to wrest the Scepter out of the handes of Christ and to thrust him out of his chaire of Estate The consideration hereof most deare and dread Soveraigne hath imboldened vs Gods most unworthy servants your Maiesties loving and loyall Subiectes at this time to cast downe our selues at your royall feete and to craue your Princely favour Your Maiestie knoweth right well what Controversies there haue been amongst us in this lād about the Prelacy Ceremonies Subscriptiō ever since the bright shinīg beames of the glorious Gospell of Christ first dispelled chased away the foggie mistes black darknes of Popery from out of our coastes You know likwise how hotely egarly the Approbatiō of these things hath been vrged by the Prelates who being wise in their generation haue left no stone vnrolled for the upholding of their ruinous tottering kingdome they having from time to time not onely reviled and disgraced both in Pulpit and in Print those whom they call their brethren and fellow servants of Iesus Christ who out of a fervent Zeale of the glorie of God and a perfect detestation of Poperie haue witnessed against these Corruptions but having also suspended deprived degraded and imprisoned them yea caused them to be turned out of house and home denyed them all benefit of law and used them with such contempt contumely as if they were not worthy to liue upon the face of the earth Shall these Controversies be kept a-foote for ever Shall they not once be finally decided determined Will it not be misery in the latter end if the Prelates be not restrained in time It is true that bookes haue been and are daily written on both sides and yet the differences are as great and greater now then they were at the first and so are like still to be unles by speciall order from your Maiestie the matter may once come to some such direct and iust Triall as is heere offered Wherein that your Maiestie may be the more willing and readie to harken unto us we beseech you to consider and that seriously that the Cause which here we present unto you is not our owne but that it is the Cause of Christ Iesus who is become a Suiter vnto you and desireth that he may haue Audience for whom whatsoever you shall doe it shal be remembred unto you and abundātly recompensed at that great last day of account when you shall come to stand before his Tribunall who is King of Kinges and Lord of Lords who is not unrighteous that he should forget any thing that is done for him or for any cause of his And howsoever the Prelates and their followers do beare your Maiestie in hand that the Church-Government desired is an enemy to your Crowne and dignitie beleeue them not we hūbly beseech you neither harken to their Syren songes It is as we are readie to proue a holy Ordinance of God which will stand when all such as oppose it and blaspheme it in the eares of your Royall Maiestie shall melt away as snow before the Sunne And if by such an indifferent Conference as is heere tendered we shall not make it as cleere unto your Maiestie as the Sunne at Noone-day that the Governement of the Churches of Christ by Pastors Teachers and Elders is much more agreeable to the State of a Monarchy then is the present Governement by Archbishops Bishops Archdeacons Commissaries and the rest of that Romish Hierarchy let us then finde no favor in your Maiesties eyes Your Maiestie professed before you came to the Crowne that you did equally loue honor the learned graue men of either of these opinions Basil. dor Epist pag 11. and it is no small heartes-griefe unto us that since your comming into this land your Affections are so alienated estranged from us who haue done you no hurt in the world but haue wished you all the good that your owne soule desireth nay who before we saw your face laboured by all good meanes not without some danger to promote your Maiesties iust Title to this Crowne and haue ever since caryed our selues duetifully towards your Maiestie and peaceably in the service of God and of his Churches We are not ignorant what the Prelates doe pretend and what they suggest continually in your Princely eares they cry out against us with open mouth that we are stubberne and refractarie persons and enemies to your Soveraigne Authoritie wherein they doe both highly abuse your Maiestie and wrong us exceedingly For it is well knowne and the Lord beareth us witnes that we doe in the singlenes and synceritie of our heartes ascribe much more unto your Maiestie and the Civill authoritie under you then any Prelate in the land either doth or is willing to doe And for the matters in question we professe heere in the presence of that great God before whom we shall one day appeare to answer it if we speake not the truth that we stand not against them out of any wilfulnes or peevishnes but out of the tendernes of