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A28899 A defence of the Scriptures, and the Holy Spirit speaking in them, as the chiefe iudge of controversies of faith ... with a vindication of that honour due to magistrates, ministers, and others ... in a relation of a disputation at Chesterfield in the county of Darby, between some ministers of the Gospell and James Naylor, an erring Quaker ... : with some animadversions upon a lying relation of that disputation, published by Iames Nayler / by Immanuel Bourne ... Bourne, Immanuel, 1590-1672. 1656 (1656) Wing B3852; ESTC R23281 45,977 64

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a third Argument Mr Bourns 3 Argument Whatsoever is the very word of God himselfe that is and ought to be the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith But the holy Scriptures are the very word of God himselfe and therefore they are the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith The first not denied the second proved John 10.34 35 Jesus said is it not written in your Law I have said ye are Gods If he called them gods to whom the word of God came and the Scriptures cannot be broken c. Here our Saviour calleth the Scriptures the word of God therefore the holy Scripture is the word of God And the like againe Marke 7.12 13. Ye make the word of God of none effect by your traditions Christ plainly calleth the Scriptures the written Law of God the word of God therefore the holy Scriptures are the very word of God himselfe and so the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith Naylers Answer Nayler cavilled still and cried out it is false it is false the word is not the Judge and sit downe liar But Mr Bourne pressed him to answer And Nayler said the word was God but the Scripture was the letter and that was not Judge Mr Billingsleys 1 Argument Mr Billingsley pressed an Argument to prove that the written word of which the Question is made is not God That which is the word of Christ who is God that is not Christ nor God But the holy Scriptures and word preached and written by the Apostles is the word of Christ Therefore the holy Scripture is not Christ nor God First that Christ is God that is evident Rom. 9.5 of whom concerning the flesh Christ came who is God over all blessed for ever Therefore by this testimony it is evident Christ is God Secondly that the holy Scriptures and word preached by the Apostles is the word of Christ that is witnessed Col. 3.16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdome The Apostle doth not say let the word Christ dwell in you but let the word of Christ Therefore the word of Christ is not Christ nor God so neither the holy Scriptures which are the word of Christ and of the spirit of Christ which holy men spake and writ as they were moved by the Holy Ghost Naylers Answer Nayler instead of a better Answer still quarrelled and cried out liar liar the word is God and God and his word are all one but the letter was in time Mr Bourns Reply To this Mr Bourne replyed that was not so for although God and his written word were one in respect of that agreement of truth was in the written word and in God yet that word of God and God were not all one essentially as the naturall word or Son of God was all one and the same Essence or Being with God Naylers Answer To this Nayler cried out away with thy dark word Iohn ● 12 14. I do not owne that word essentially and so rejected the distinction of Gods written word and essentiall word Mr Bourns Reply Mr Bourne replied that the written word of God was not of the same Being with God Naylers Answer Nayler and one of his fellow Quakers by him cried out liar liar stop thy mouth for shame stop thy mouth God and his word are all one Mr Bournes Argument Mr Bourne bad Nayler hearken to an Argument to prove it by Scripture and told Nayler he was the brazen fac'd foule mouth'd fellow he had heard when his owne mouth was stopped that he could not answer an Argument he still cried out liar liar stop thy mouth stop thy mouth Mr Bourns Argument And Mr Bourne pressed this Argument No word which was written in time part by God himselfe and part by Moses and other holy men of God was or is all one with God essentially or of the same essence or being with God but the holy Scriptures were written part by God himselfe in time and part by Moses and other holy men of God Therefore that word of God was not of one or of the same Essence and Being with God The first Proposition is evident of it selfe The second is witnessed Exod. 31.18 where God gave unto Moses when he had made an end of communing with him two Tables of stone written with the finger or by the power of God And Exod. 34.27 God commanded Moses to write all the words of the Covenant for after the tenour of these words I have made a Covenant with thee and with Israel And this was written two thousand yeare after the Creation of the world which God made therefore God and that written word was not all one or of the same Essence and Being with God and so not the rest of the holy Scriptures which was written in after times Naylers Answer But Nayler with a loud voice still cried out liar liar is not God and his word all one and bad the people beare witnesse hee saith God and his word are not all one Mr Bourn For Reply We distinguish there is a unity of agreement so God and his written word are all one and a unity of Essence or Being so God and his written word the Scripture are not all one Mr Gardiners Argument Mr Gardiner Minister of Eckinton being present when he saw him so audaciously impudent called to Nayler to hearken to an Argument to the contrary which was to this effect Whatsoever is all one with God is eternall but the holy Scripture or written word is not eternall therefore it is not all one with God Naylers Answer The Quaker Nayler presently cried out in a scornfull manner away liar away stop thy mouth the word is eternall and God is eternall And one of his fellow Quakers that stood by Nayler called Mr Gardiner lyar lyar both with a loud voice stop thy mouth thou art a liar thou art a liar But let any indifferent man but read and consider the Argument and see if the Quaker be not proved the liar and justly deserved that shame himselfe which he so unjustly cast upon Mr Gardiner and the other Ministers Then Mr Godfrey Watkinson of Brampton an understanding Gentleman not a Minister being present Mr Godfrey Watkinson of Brampton Moor neer Chesterfield called to Nayler and told him he had lost the Question and he himselfe was the liar for even now he said the letter or written word was in time and so not eternall and now he saith the word is eternall and God and his word is all one when as the Question and A●gument is about the written word which is not eternall and therfore he was the lyar lost the Question or words to this effect for I cannot remember every particular but I endeavour to keep the sence and words as well as I can remember Naylers Answer But Nayler kept on his loud mouthed pace and gave Mr Watkinson some unfit disrespective speeches and said he owned the Spirit speaking in holy men to bee the Judge but would
Nayler answered that he himselfe was as holy just and good as God himselfe And this Mr Baldw●nson did offer to depose to Colonell Briggs who is a man fearing God and of eminent trust in the Common-wealth and what is this but presumptuous blasphemy both in Fox and Nayler so proudly to boast of their owne perfection and that not by the imputed righteousness of Christ for that they deny but by their own inherent holiness which they pretend to be Christ within them and yet so basely to manifest themselves notorious lyars The briefe volation of the irreligion of the Northern Quak●rs wherein their h … d principles and practises doctrines and manners are discovered read page 24 25. As in that Pamphlet called Saul's Errand to Damascus in which there are a hundred untruths as may be proved by a hundred witnesses testified in that booke called A Briefe Relation of the irreligion of the Northern Quakers page 24. Many of them saith that Author will be as ready to say and unsay any thing as if lying were a vertue and they make no conscience saith he of raising false reports against those especially who doe any way oppose them and he goeth on further Thus wholly by lies lying doctrines lying wonders lying reports they endeavour to build up the Kingdome of the Father of lyes amongst us Thus farre and further that reverend Author I might add many more of their errours lies and abominable blasphemies But these are sufficient to witnesse the Spirit in James Nayler and divers of his fellow Quakers to be a Spirit of Errour and Blasphemy and therefore not fit to be chiefe Judges of Controversies of Faith Other their Errours and Blasphemies are so abominable that I hold them fitter to be buried in silence then to rake them up out of the Devils dung-hill to be an odious noisom stinke and offence to the people of God Now for Naylers answer and his crosse interrogatories upon this and other Questions I have answered them fully in every particular which with my Reply to his Quaeries and discoveries of many of his abominable lies increased in my written hand prepared for the Presse to above threescore sheets of paper which I have ready by me the which I was resolved by Gods grace to have printed in Defence of Christ the Gospell and the faithfull Gospel-Ministers of Christ in England and their maintenance But comming to London I finde these things so sufficiently answered and truth so sully satisfied against the Quakers and their errours by so many godly and learned Divines that I conceive to add more is but to cast water into the sea and therefore I have thought good to print only these few sheets and to let the rest of my labours rest unprinted untill God shall give me a further call unto that worke I now therefore proceed to the third Question Disputed 3 Question Disputed Whether every man be bound to looke to the light within him as sufficient for his ditection to attaine salvation This we denyed The state of the Question The sence of the Question is Whether every man and woman in the world have a sufficient light within them for their direction to attaine eternall life so as he or shee needeth not to looke to the outward light of the written word of God or to the light of the Gospell revealed in the holy Scriptures or to any outward teaching by man whatsoever although it be agreeable to the Scripture of truth This in effect was the opinion of Nayler as it is of divers of his fellow Quakers witness Nayler himselfe in his answer in writing sent to us the day after the Dispute and since printed The light of Christ saith hee which hath enlightned every man that commeth into the world is ourlight and to that is every one bound to look for direction to attaine Salvation and that he affirmeth as sufficient or to that effect And the same did Nayler affirm before in his discourse with Mr Will. Cole at Kendall See the Perfect Pharisee the subscription to the Epistle and pages 17.18 Richard Tarnworth p. 51. c To whom he said that every man in the world had a light within him sufficient to guide them to salvation and this he extended to the Indians that never heard the Gospell witnesse that booke called the Perfect Pharisee written by those five Reverend Ministers nere New Castle named before And thus James Nayler and divers others of his fellow Quakers in other Pamphlets which for brevity sake I omit Mr Bournes Argument But I did prove the contrary by this Argument No man whosoever is darknesse is bound to looke to the light within him as sufficient to direct him to attaine Salvation but every naturall man is darknesse therefore no naturall man is bound to looke to the light within him as sufficient for his direction to attaine salvation and so not every man that commeth into the world The first proposition is evident because it is in vaine to look for light in darknesse And the second proposition is witnessed by the Apostle Paul Eph. 5.8 Ye were once darknesse saith he to the Ephesians but now ye are light in the Lord. In the state of nature corrupted by Adams Fall they were darknesse having their understandings darkened through the ignorance that was in them because of the blindnesse of their minds And what light then had these within them sufficient to direct them to Salvation or what sufficient light hath any naturall man in the world and therefore all are not bound to looke to the light within them as sufficient for their direction to attaine Salvation Naylers Answer All Naylers answer was it is false it is false lyar lyar all are enlightned and have a light within them sufficient to direct them to Salvation or to that effect Mr Billingsley's Argument And after some wranglings by Nayler Mr Billingsley called to Nayler to heare an Argument and gave this or to this effect None of those to whom Paul was sent to turn them from darknesse to light and from the power of Satan to God had a light within them to which they were bound to looke as sufficient to direct them to attaine Salvation But there were some Gentiles to whom Paul was sent to turn them from darknesse to light and from the power of Satan to God therefore some Gentiles had not a light within them to which they could looke as sufficient to direct them to attaine Salvation and so not every man in the world The first proposition is manifest because if those Gentiles had a light within them sufficient to direct them to attaine Salvation then what needed the Lord to have sent blessed Paul through so many dangers to turne them from darknesse to light and from the power of Satan to God And for the second the Evangelist Luke doth witnesse it Acts 26.17 18. Acts 26. Delivering thee from the Gentiles to whom I send thee to turne them from
A defence of the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit speaking in them as the chiefe Iudge of Controversies of Faith and of the light in them as needfull to be looked unto for direction to attaine Salvation With a Vindication of that Honour due to Magistrates Ministers and others according to their Places and Dignities In a Relation of a Disputation at Chesterfield in the County of Darby between some Ministers of the Gospell and James Nayler an erring Quaker The Questions disputed were these foure 1. Whether the Spirit of God speaking in the Scripture be the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith Affirmed by us Ministers of Christ 2. Whether the private Spirit in the Pope or in any Quaker be the chiefe Judge of Controversies Denyed 3. Whether every man be bound to looke to the light within him as sufficient for his direction to attaine Salvation Denyed 4. Whether it be lawfull to call any man Master or Father upon earth or to give any honour to man Affirmed In which The Truth is confirmed and the Quakers Errors and Blasphemies discovered and confuted and many places of Scripture from the Quakers false applications cleared With some Animadversions upon a lying Relation of that disputation published by Iames Nayler A man that is an Hereticke after the first and second admonition reject knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth being condemned of himselfe Tit. 3.10 11. By Immanuel Bourne Pastor of the Church in Ashover in the County of DARBY London Printed for John Wright at the Kings Head in the Old Bailey 1656. To the Right Honourable Iohn Glyn Lord chiefe Justice and to the Honorable Richard Aske Peter Warbarton Justices of the Upper Bench. To the Right Honourable Oliver Saint Iohn Lord Chiefe Justice and to the Honorable Edward Atkins Matthew Hales Hugh Windham Justices of the Court of Common Pleas. To the Right Honorable William Steele Lord chiefe Baron and to the Honorable Iohn Parker Ro Nicolas R Tomlins Barons of His Highness Court of Exchequer To the Right Honorable Commissiary Generall Edward Whaley Major Generall of the Counties of Nottingham Darby Lincoln Leicester Warwick And to all other the Honorable and Worshipfull Justices and Officers for the preservation of piety and the peace of the Nation The blessing of truth and true peace here eternal happines hereafter Right Honorable MAY it please your honours to give me leave to become your humble remembrancer That when Joshua that religious wise faithfull and valiant Captaine Generall of all the Armies of Israel had conquered one thirty Kings and by Gods assistance setled the Lords people in the promised land to witnesse his care of piety as well as of peace He calleth for all Israel for their Elders their Heads their Judges and for their Officers and mindeth them of the mighty works the Lord had done for them and pressed them upon that account to stir up their affections to love the Lord their God and to feare him and serve him in truth and sincerity yea to put away their false gods and false worship from amongst them And we read likewise of faithfull Samuel that hee judged Israel all the daies of his life and hee went from yeare to yeare in Circuit to Bethel and Gilgal and Mizpeh and he judged Israel in all those places and his returne was to Ramah for there was his house and there he judged Israel and there he built an Altar unto the Lord Thus here you see there was both Justice and Piety in this holy man of God and Israel was blessed in such a Judge We cannot but acknowledge that the Lord hath done great things in these Nations and wee doe enjoy peace and plenty and many mercies which we have not prized nor improved as we ought to the best advantage for Gods glory and our own good Under his Highnesse protection and the present Government through the grace of God every man may sit quietly under his own vine and fig-tree without feare of plundering a happiness which in few yeares past we did not enjoy Yea we have good Lawes and honourable religious Judges and Magistrates to see Justice executed and right done between man and man and wee enjoy our comfortable Liberty of preaching and hearing the Gospell of Christ Yet can we not say there is no complaining nor cause of complaint in our streets The Church and people of God have met with enemies in all ages Cant. 2.2 As is the Lillie amongst the thorns so is my beloved among the daughters and as it was of old so it is in these our daies the Church and people of God especially Gods faithfull Ministers suffer persecution by two sorts of people The first prophane Ranters Atheisticall men Drunkards Gamesters and ignorant blind soules such as neglect publike Ordinances in these times of liberty and have no right principle of grace and goodness in them These make it a delight to exercise their malice against the Ministers of Christ These would rob and spoile them to the uttermost if it were in their power And this we can witness we have found true by troublesome experience Againe there is another sort of people which travell up and downe the Nation under the name of Quakers as the Jesuits and seminary Priests have used to doe secretly so these now openly disswading and seducing our people all they can from commitig to our Churches or meeting houses calling our Churches Idols Temples All our services to God in praier preaching of the word and other Christian exercises ordinary and extraordinary when wee seeke the face of God for the peace and welfare of the Nation for the prosperity of our Navie and Armies both by sea and land or our praising God for his mercies we do enjoy All these say the Quakers are but Idol-worship In a Quakers book called a Discovery of a threefold state of Antichrist by Samuel Ballivant c. and beastly services and all the faithfull and godlie Ministers of Christ without exception are thieves our maintenance by Tithes Antichristian and unlawfull Yea they call us Conjurers Antichrists witches devils liars a viperous and serpentine generation blasphemers scarlet coloured beasts Babylons Merchants whited wals painted Sepulchres and whatsoever the true Prophets of God or Christ our Saviour did justly call the false Prophets wicked priests and Scribes and Pharisees those names do these rayling and reviling Quakers give to the godly painfull learned and faithfull Ministers of Christ in the Nation disswading our people from hearing us or giving heed to any thing we preach disturbing us in our publike ministrie And what can we call this but a persecution like that of those wicked men against the good Prophet Jeremie Come say they and let us smi●e him with the tongue and let us not give heed to any of his words Jer. 18.18 And what is persecution if this be not Yea such is the malice of these Jesuited Quaking adversaries against the ministers of Christ
unto death of which St John witnesseth There is a sinne unto death I say not that thou shouldest pray for it 1 John 5.16 Now for thy twenty Quaeries Nayler which thou sentest and addest towards the end I have in part answered them already in what I have writ and part of them are such Questions against which St Paul speaketh as tending not to edification of those who are weak in the faith Rom. 14.1 2. but rather to their distraction if not destruction therefore more fit to be silenced and buried in darknesse then to be revived or brought to light Secondly some are hypocriticall like that of Herod to the wise men Mat. 2.7 8. Thirdly some are curious Questions to satisfie curious busie minds such as thou art which being answered will not profit to godlinesse or edification contrary to the rule 1 Cor. 14.26 Fourthly some of them are tempting captious Questions like those of the Pharisees thy Fathers to Christ our Saviour which he either answereth by Questions to his adversaries againe or else wisely rejects or avoids to escape their treacherous designes against him as Mat. 21.23 24 c. Mat. 22.16 17 18 c. Fifthly some are foolish and unlearned Questions which gender strifes not love or any benefit to soules and which the Apostle directs Timothy to avoid 2 Tim. 2.23 and giveth the same command to Titus because saith he they are unprofitable and vaine Tit. 3.9 And I had rather follow St Pauls counsell then satisfie thy folly It is the counsell of the wise man in some such cases to be silent Prov. 26.4 Yet if thou wilt have an answer to thy twenty Quaeries and to thy challenge and brags lest thou be wise in thy own conceit or any of thy generation Prov. 26.5 know that all or most of them or those that are fit to be replyed unto they are sufficiently answered by divers religious learned men Ministers of the Gospell and others If any desire to see First let them read learned Mr Baxter's answer to the sixteen Quaeries The Worcester petition d●fended printed 1653. upon the Wostershire Petition to which is added seventeen Counter-Quaeries not yet answered by thee and thy fellowes that I have seen 2. Read Mr Baxters Quakers Catechism The Quakers confuted printed 1654. and the Quakers Questions answered there printed 1655. 3. Read godly Mr Eaton in his book called the Quakers confuted being an answer to nineteen quaeries of thy companions in which your weaknesse and erroneous wickednesse is discovered and the truth vindicated 4. Read that book called the Perfect Pharisee The Perfect Pharisee printed 1654. in which by way of position and proofe your wandring quaeries are learnedly and religiously answered by those five godly Ministers nere New Castle 5. Mr Fowler c printed 1655. Read solid and accute Mr Fowler 's book called Satan at Noon Day of the severall sorts of Quakers and Familists And there you may see the matter of these familisticall quaeries answered and errors confuted to their sorrow if they had grace to be sensible 6. The mystery of ungodlinesse printed 1653. Read judicious and zealous Mr Farmer of Bristol in his book entituled the Mystery of Godlinesse and ungodlinesse in which the Questionist ungodlinesse is there discovered to their shame 7. Reverend and succinct Mr Sherlock's answer to twenty seven of the Quakers wild Questions Mr Sherlock printed 1654. and his learned discourse of the Spirit annexed which might stay these erring wandring spirits from their false pretences to the spirit of Christ 8 Read that profitable book A brief relation printed 1653. of that observant Author called A Briefe Relation of the Irreligion of the Northern Quakers wherein their horrid principles and practises doctrines and manners are exposed to the view of every intelligent Reader and the Quakers Sauls errand to Damascus in which are said to be an hundred lies replied unto 9. Antichrist in man printed 1655. Witness that booke entituled Antichrist in man the Quakers Idoll by Mr Joshua Milner a servant of Christ in the Gospell in which is an answer and confutation of some of the Quakers dangerous and damnable doctrines 10. Mr Prins Quakers unmasked printed 1656. witnesse godly and learned Mr William Prinne Esquire detecting these Quakers to bee but the spawne of the Romish Frogs Jesuites and Franciscan Fryars sent from Rome to seduce poore soules in this English Nation with his reply to John Audlands rayling paper by which and what I have proved in my Answer and Arguments upon the Questions before which were Disputed any Christians seeing eye may see that James Nayler and his wandring fellow Quakers are but poor pedlers for the Priests of Rome and the Jesuits servants carrying up and downe the Nation their packs of errours and bags of paper-quaeries invented and hatched in Antichrists and the devils warehouse which they offer at every door or place where they come like braided baused rotten wares to deceive and couzen poor soules and to disturbe the peace and quiet of the Nation that this common enemy may more easily wheele us about to Rome and Romish Tyranny and so bring us to confusion from the highest to the lowest from which God of his mercy protect us And for Ministers maintenance Gen. 14.20 Gen. 28.22 Lev. 27.30 31. Numb 18.21 Deut. 10.8 9. Mal 3 8 9. Mat. 23 23. 1 Cor. 9 13.14 1 Tim. 5.17 Heb. 7.8 Printed for Mr Iohn Wright in the Old Bayly 1646. Mr Deacons discovery printed 1656. read Dr Carleton Dr Tillesley Dr Slater Sir Henry Spelman Sir James Sempel Mr William Prin Esquire my owne sixt book I have printed called a light from Christ leading unto Christ and divers others who have sufficiently proved Tythes not only lawfull but due by divine Right to Christ and the Ministers of Christ in the Gospell and that the taking them away without due redemption is that sinne of sacriledge Last of all for I let passe others Read Mr John Deacon a solid and sharp Questionist Replyant and Demandant In his publike discovery of a secret deceit or the man of sin unmasked and Satan transformed into the resemblance of an Angell of light in that Sect or Society commonly called Quakers in which you have nineteen quaeries sent to the Quakers Speaker at the bull and mouth neer Aldersgate and miserably answered by James Nayler whom he calleth justly the grand fomentor of heresie and replyed unto by Mr Deacon and fourteen more returned by Nayler and fully answered by Mr Deacon and foure and twenty more proposed by Mr Deacon which nor James Nayler nor any of his fellow Quakers I believe can truly and plainly answer but they must denie the holy Scriptures or forsake their owne false erronious and hereticall principles And thus I have said enough to direct James Nayler and all his deceived deluding Antichristian pharisaicall company of Quakers where they may finde Answers to their so much bragged of quaeries It would be happy for them if they could leave their errours and enquire after the knowledge of Christ that they may be taught by him Eph. 4.20 21. as the truth is in Jesus which I desire I may pray for And now dear soules if any of you that belong to Jesus Christ have been drawn away with the errour of these wicked perfect pharisees as they are rightly called return againe to your first Husband Christ your Saviour Hos 2.7 you will finde it will be better with you so then now it is and fly the society of these deluding equivocating Antichristian Quakers who speak sometimes of the Scriptures but deny them to be the word of God and make use of them in shew but not in sincerity and truth Who pretend to a Christ within them but deny the merits of Christs blood and righteousnesse of Christ imputed to beleevers for Justification and salvation Some who proudly boast George Fox Iames Nayler c. proved before Read their books and where doe you read of asking forgivenesse of sin for Christs sake they are equall with God and as holy just and good as God that they are perfect and without sinne and therefore ask no forgiveness of sins at Gods hand for Christs merits sake casting away both the Article of Faith in which we profess we believe remission of sinnes and that petition of the Lords prayer in which our Saviour teacheth us to pray Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them that trespass against us Yea they endeavour to draw poore soules from Christs publike Ordinances and to forsake the plain straite way to Heaven Mat. 7. like cheating thieves draw them into by waies Mat. 7.14 that they may-more securely rob and spoil them of the rich treasure of the Gospell and blessed way to glory Seek then my friends to Christ who is the wisedome of the Father Prov. 8. Col. 2.3 for wisedome and power to depart from the tents of these wicked men Numb 16.16 and to turne againe unto the Lord that ye perish not in their Apostacy from Christ And for you my honoured pretious soules and well beloved in the Lord Jesus who by strength from Christ have withstood the temptations of these deluding Quakers and are established in the Faith of Christ Watch still and beware ye be not drawn away with the errour of the wicked and fall from your owne stedfastnesse and labour in the use of all good means publike in the congregations of the saints private in your families and secret in your closets by the power of Christ and assistance of the Spirit of holiness John 15.5 Phil. 4.13 to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Pet. 3.17 18. To whom with God the Father and God the blessed Spirit be glory both now and for ever Amen Immanuel Bourne FINIS