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truth_n word_n write_a write_v 534 4 5.7735 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A65389 A further discovery of that generation of men called Qvakers by way of reply to an answer of James Nayler to The perfect Pharisee : wherein is more fully layd open their blasphemies, notorious equivocations, lyings, wrestings of the Scripture, raylings and other detestable principles and practices ... / published for the building up of the perseverance of the saints till they come to the end of their faith, even the salvation of their soules. Weld, Thomas, 1590?-1662. 1654 (1654) Wing W1268; ESTC R27879 78,750 103

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rake_v up_o a_o reason_n out_o of_o a_o heap_n of_o rail_v this_o it_o be_v those_o that_o do_v uphold_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o trial_n of_o doctrine_n do_v yet_o differ_v among_o themselves_o therefore_o the_o spirit_n or_o doctrine_n be_v not_o to_o be_v try_v in_o scripture_n reply_n argument_n quaker_n popish_a argument_n this_o as_o many_o other_o of_o their_o answer_n be_v a_o know_v threadbare_a popish_a argument_n they_o say_v you_o protestant_n can_v agree_v in_o your_o discipline_n and_o therefore_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o to_o be_v the_o judge_n of_o doctrine_n but_o the_o infallible_a spirit_n of_o the_o pope_n we_o hope_v god_n will_v discover_v they_o ere_o lon●_n to_o be_v man_n mere_o act_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o anti-christ_n but_o we_o shall_v give_v you_o a_o full_a answer_n under_o these_o two_o consideration_n spirit_n difference_n in_o nonfundamentals_a no_o prejudice_n to_o the_o scripture_n be_v judge_n of_o spirit_n 1._o first_o as_o it_o 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own_o imagination_n to_o make_v they_o odious_a when_o we_o say_v according_a to_o their_o principle_n those_o thing_n that_o be_v hold_v forth_o of_o christ_n without_o we_o as_o hubbethorn_n say_v must_v be_v act_v over_o again_o within_o we_o and_o so_o christ_n must_v be_v bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n in_o we_o and_o judas_n and_o herod_n and_o pilate_n must_v be_v in_o we_o to_o betray_v and_o crucify_v he_o be_v not_o this_o the_o plain_a assertion_n of_o hubbethorn_n the_o same_o thing_n must_v be_v fulfil_v in_o we_o that_o be_v in_o christ_n jesus_n as_o he_o be_v hold_v forth_o in_o the_o scripture-letter_n and_o in_o the_o flesh_n without_o we_o and_o this_o we_o also_o prove_v by_o a_o assertion_n of_o george_n bateman_n pag._n 29._o to_o which_o nayler_n answer_v nothing_o but_o further_a it_o shall_v yet_o appear_v that_o its_o clear_a in_o saul_n errand_n to_o dam●scus_n pag._n 14._o where_o george_n fox_n express_o say_v christ_n his_o flesh_n be_v a_o figure_n for_o every_o one_o pass_v through_o the_o same_o way_n that_o christ_n do_v who_o come_v to_o know_v christ_n in_o the_o flesh_n what_o a_o sear_a conscience_n must_v this_o man_n need●_n have_v that_o when_o this_o doctrine_n be_v express_o find_v in_o those_o evident_a place_n in_o that_o book_n yet_o have_v the_o impudence_n against_o the_o light_n of_o conscience_n to_o say_v let_v that_o book_n he_o wi●nesse_n against_o y●u_fw-la and_o your_o lie_a slander_n herein_o to_o all_o that_o read_v it_o but_o both_o you_o and_o we_o shall_v both_o learn_v what_o th●s_v man_n and_o his_o way_n i●_n excep_v 2_o you_o say_v this_o be_v write_v in_o a_o letter_n which_o n●yler_n write_v to_o one_o in_o lancashire_n viz._n that_o ●e_n that_o expect_v to_o be_v save_v by_o he_o that_o die_v at_o jerusalem_n shall_v be_v deceive_v which_o ●s_v a_o m●st_a 〈◊〉_d by_o untruth_n &c_n &c_n and_o so_o he_o go_v on_o ●a●ling_v reply_n 1._o it_o be_v acknowledge_v tha●_n that_o letter_n which_o have_v this_o doctrine_n in_o it_o that_o chri●t_n be_v but_o a_o figure_n be_v not_o naylers_n letter_n in_o which_o that_o other_o passage_n be_v we_o mistake_v nail_v for_o hubbethorne_n and_o that_o it_o be_v in_o a_o letter_n from_o hu●betho●●e_n write_v to_o one_o in_o lancashire_n take_v this_o ensue_a testimony_n of_o mr._n moor_n a_o godly_a minister_n in_o lancashire_n richard_n hubbethorne_n wrot●_n that_o the_o c●mmi●g_n of_o ch●●st_a i●_n the_o fl●sh_n be_v but_o a_o figure_n or_o a_o ●ol●ing_a 〈◊〉_d in_o 〈◊〉_d and_o action_n among_o man_n those_o thing_n that_o he_o will_v true_o spiritual_o and_o real_o do_v in_o the_o spirit_n of_o his_o people_n at_o his_o second_o come_v this_o but_o be_v object_v against_o he_o as_o deny_v the_o lord_n that_o buy_v we_o he_o reply_v in_o another_o letter_n thou_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o i_o mean_v by_o that_o expression_n etc._n etc._n these_o word_n be_v often_o object_v to_o the_o quaker_n and_o particular_o to_o george_n fox_n though_o some_o of_o they_o make_v a_o answer_n to_o the_o but_o yet_o none_o of_o they_o deny_v it_o in_o these_o part_n that_o i_o can_v hear_v of_o these_o letter_n be_v send_v to_o henry_n holme_n and_o be_v now_o in_o my_o hand_n kellet_n in_o lancash_n jan._n 16._o 1653._o william_n moor_n thus_o you_o have_v our_o confession_n of_o our_o mistake_n only_o of_o the_o name_n you_o see_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o thing_n convince_o evidence_v but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o filthy_a untruth_n that_o nayler_n write_v such_o a_o letter_n in_o which_o be_v those_o word_n he_o that_o expect_v to_o be_v save_v by_o he_o that_o die_v at_o jerusalem_n shall_v be_v deceive_v we_o answer_v first_o nayler_n may_v know_v that_o we_o do_v only_o affirm_v that_o doctor_n martial_n do_v object_v this_o against_o he_o at_o applehy_n and_o master_n jaques_n minister_n of_o bolton_n in_o lancashire_n send_v his_o promise_n that_o he_o will_v make_v it_o appear_v have_v nayler_n deny_v that_o either_o of_o 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martial_n and_o that_o m._n jaques_n engage_v to_o justify_v it_o yet_o we_o have_v affix_v m._n jaques_n testimony_n to_o satisfy_v the_o world_n of_o our_o clearness_n from_o the_o scandal_n and_o wicked_a reproach_n of_o nayler_n and_o this_o scent_n be_v under_o his_o hand_n and_o scale_n james_n nayler_n in_o a_o lettor_n which_o he_o write_v to_o henry_n holme_n give_v out_o this_o expression_n if_o thou_o expect_v to_o be_v save_v by_o he_o that_o die_v at_o jerusalem_n thou_o be_v deceive_v hoc_fw-la unum_fw-la test_n john_n jaques_n excep_v 3_o there_o be_v but_o one_o thing_n more_o in_o naylers_n answer_n whereby_o he_o shuffle_n this_o position_n and_o that_o evasion_n be_v this_o we_o do_v own_o and_o confess_v that_o jesus_n christ_n in_o the_o flesh_n be_v a_o figure_n or_o example_n as_o if_o figure_n and_o example_n be_v all_o one_o to_o which_o we_o answer_v reply_n figure_n jesus_n christ_n not_o a_o figure_n 1._o we_o challenge_v james_n nayler_n to_o show_v one_o tittle_n of_o scripture_n wherein_o jesus_n christ_n be_v call_v a_o figure_n the_o first_o adam_n be_v call_v a_o figure_n rom._n 5.14_o the_o tabernacle_n call_v a_o figure_n heb._n 9.9_o but_o jesus_n christ_n be_v never_o call_v a_o figure_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v a_o sinful_a shuffle_n of_o james_n nayler_n thus_o to_o confound_v a_o example_n and_o figure_n 2._o if_o he_o be_v a_o figure_n we_o again_o affirm_v he_o must_v typify_v some_o thing_n but_o we_o refer_v you_o to_o our_o book_n as_o to_o christ_n not_o be_v a_o figure_n or_o only_o a_o example_n where_o we_o have_v lay_v down_o many_o scripture_n and_o argument_n to_o which_o he_o answer_v nothing_o perfect_a pharisee_n pag._n 8._o 9_o position_n 6._o that_o man_n be_v not_o justify_v by_o that_o righteousness_n of_o christ_n which_o he_o in_o his_o own_o person_n do_v fulfil_v without_o we_o reader_n thou_o will_v see_v in_o our_o book_n we_o have_v four_o proof_n for_o this_o three_o of_o which_o nayler_n deny_v not_o and_o for_o the_o four_o we_o refer_v thou_o to_o mr._n jaque●_n testimony_n so_o that_o as_o to_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o assertion_n we_o must_v take_v it_o for_o grant_v especial_o consider_v what_o george_n fox_n say_v in_o saul_n errand_n to_o damascus_n pag._n 12._o he_o that_o be_v bear_v of_o god_n be_v justify_v by_o christ_n alone_o without_o imputation_n this_o give_v we_o to_o understand_v the_o meaning_n of_o naylers_n answer_n to_o that_o position_n thus_o except_o that_o righteousness_n christ_n have_v perform_v without_o i_o be_v not_o my_o justification_n etc._n etc._n until_o christ_n appear_v in_o i_o etc._n etc._n and_o appear_v in_o i_o my_o righteousness_n sanctification_n justification_n and_o redemption_n etc._n etc._n reply_n term_n fox_n deny_v impute_v righteousness_n in_o plain_a term_n 1._o let_v but_o the_o reader_n compare_v this_o of_o james_n nayler_n with_o that_o expression_n of_o george_n fox_n viz._n he_o be_v justify_v by_o that_o alone_a without_o imputation_n and_o that_o of_o authory_n hodgson_n viz_o i_o believe_v to_o be_v save_v not_o by_o the_o righteousness_n of_o christ_n impute_v to_o i_o but_o by_o the_o righteousness_n of_o christ_n inherent_a in_o i_o which_o he_o do_v not_o deny_v he_o w●ll_n learn_v the_o meaning_n of_o naylers_n wor●s_n to_o be_v clear_o this_o that_o christ_n in_o a_o man_n be_v the_o matter_n of_o his_o just_a fication_n so_o that_o though_o he_o labour_v to_o colour_v over_o the_o business_n in_o this_o answer_n by_o say_v christ_n be_v not_o his_o justification_n till_o he_o appear_v in_o he_o yet_o compare_v his_o answer_n with_o these_o testimony_n it_o will_v appear_v to_o be_v downright_a equivocation_n and_o shuffle_n time_n question_v betwixt_o quaker_n &_o unconcern_v the_o
may_v observe_v he_o answer_v nothing_o and_o thereby_o see_v the_o spirit_n of_o those_o man_n that_o do_v stop_v their_o eye_n against_o the_o plain_a light_n but_o he_o that_o harden_v his_o heart_n shall_v not_o prosper_v position_n 13._o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o a_o declaration_n of_o the_o condition_n of_o they_o that_o speak_v they_o forth_o he_o answer_v nothing_o according_a to_o his_o custom_n to_o our_o argument_n nor_o except_v against_o our_o proof_n but_o labour_n to_o confirm_v the_o position_n excep_v 1_o christ_n be_v the_o word_n now_o if_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n then_o there_o be_v two_o word_n of_o god_n now_o prove_v that_o in_o scripture_n or_o that_o the_o letter_n be_v ●aked_v the_o word_n in_o plain_a word_n reply_n 1._o that_o christ_n be_v the_o word_n be_v plain_a john_n 1._o and_o who_o know_v it_o not_o one_o the_o essential_a and_o declarative_a word_n not_o all_o one_o 2._o that_o the_o will_n of_o god_n contain_v in_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v as_o plain_a beside_o the_o scripture_n we_o name_v ●n_v the_o perfect_a pharisee_fw-mi pag._n 24._o mark_v 7.13_o luke_n 11_o 28._o rom._n 10.17_o john_n 12.48_o we_o shall_v add_v these_o luke_o 8.11_o the_o seed_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n ver_fw-la 12._o then_o come_v the_o devil_n and_o take_v the_o word_n out_o of_o their_o heart_n lest_o they_o shall_v believe_v and_o be_v save_v can_v the_o devil_n take_v christ_n out_o of_o their_o heart_n 1_o thes_n 2.13_o when_o you_o receive_v the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o you_o hear_v of_o we_o you_o receive_v it_o not_o as_o the_o word_n of_o man_n but_o as_o it_o be_v in_o truth_n the_o word_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n this_o be_v the_o word_n which_o the_o apostle_n speak_v yea_o receive_v it_o which_o can_v be_v me●nt_v of_o christ_n he_o shall_v have_v say_v you_o receive_v he_o not_o as_o the_o word_n of_o man_n but_o as_o it_o be_v in_o truth_n the_o word_n of_o god_n this_o be_v so_o plain_a a_o case_n we_o shall_v not_o trouble_v thou_o further_o and_o here_o th●u_fw-mi may_v observe_v there_o be_v two_o word_n of_o god_n the_o essential_a and_o 〈◊〉_d declarative_a and_o wonder_v the_o man_n shall_v be_v so_o weak_a as_o to_o bid_v 〈◊〉_d produce_v scripture_n to_o prove_v this_o when_o the_o scripture_n be_v so_o full_a of_o it_o to_o any_o that_o do_v but_o read_v it_o excep_v 2_o the_o apostle_n call_v what_o he_o write_v a_o declaration_n 1_o ●ohn_n 1.2.3_o reply_n how_o do_v this_o prove_v the_o scripture_n be_v no●_n the_o word_n of_o god_n nay_o do_v it_o not_o full_o prove_v the_o contrary_a for_o that_o which_o he_o declare_v be_v what_o he_o have_v hear_v of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n saint_n scripture_n not_o only_o a_o declaration_n of_o the_o condition_n of_o saint_n again_o we_o do_v own_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o declarative_a word_n of_o god_n or_o a_o declaration_n of_o the_o mind_n of_o god_n but_o we_o say_v the_o quaker_n do_v destroy_v the_o scripture_n divinity_n and_o authority_n when_o they_o call_v they_o only_o a_o declaration_n of_o the_o condition_n of_o they_o that_o speak_v they_o forth_o for_o as_o we_o prove_v before_o 1_o they_o shall_v be_v then_o no_o foundation_n for_o the_o faith_n of_o saint_n for_o one_o man_n condition_n be_v not_o the_o foundation_n of_o another_o man_n faith_n 2._o the_o scripture_n shall_v have_v no_o authority_n over_o the_o soul_n of_o any_o but_o he_o that_o be_v in_o the_o same_o condition_n and_o have_v experience_v it_o contrary_a to_o john_n 2.4_o 8._o this_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o nayler_n say_v they_o be_v not_o command_v to_o forbear_v to_o wear_v shoe_n in_o his_o book_n p._n 21._o if_o they_o be_v they_o shall_v as_o well_o as_o they_o be_v command_v not_o to_o s●lute_v whereas_o that_o command_n if_o it_o be_v in_o any_o part_n bind_v luke_o 10.4_o require_v both_o but_o this_o will_v tell_v thou_o what_o be_v mean_v by_o their_o call_a scripture_n a_o speak_v forth_o of_o the_o saint_n condition_n viz._n it_o shall_v have_v no_o authority_n over_o they_o further_o than_o they_o listen_v or_o have_v a_o impulse_n on_o their_o spirit_n or_o they_o practice_n for_o both_o the_o command_n be_v of_o equal_a authority_n yet_o he_o deny_v they_o be_v command_v one_o of_o they_o nay_o they_o be_v both_o in_o the_o same_o verse_n luke_n 10.4_o yea_o 3._o this_o destroy_v the_o divine_a authority_n of_o all_o historical_a and_o prophetical_a scripture_n which_o can_v not_o be_v the_o saint_n condition_n when_o th●y_o speak_v they_o as_o also_o threaten_n and_o promise_n &c_n &c_n but_o see_v this_o at_o large_a perfect_a pharisee_n pag._n 24.25_o we_o shall_v l_o say_v but_o this_o 1_o john_n 5.16_o there_o be_v a_o sin_n unto_o death_n i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o you_o shall_v pray_v for_o it_o be_v this_o johns_n cond●●ion_n when_o he_o speak_v it_o do_v he_o exp_a ence_n in_o his_o heart_n that_o he_o have_v sin_v to_o death_n 2_o pet._n 2.22_o the_o dog_n be_v return_v to_o his_o vomit_n etc._n etc._n be_v this_o the_o condition_n of_o peter_n that_o speak_v it_o but_o we_o be_v ashamed_a of_o this_o wickedness_n and_o folly_n of_o these_o man_n excep_v 3_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o can_v be_v understand_v to_o be_v the_o word_n christ_n that_o come_v to_o the_o prophet_n samuel_n jeremy_n &c_n &c_n it_o seem_v your_o understanding_n be_v not_o with_o the_o apostle_n who_o say_v it_o be_v the_o spirit_n of_o ch_n be_v it_o that_o be_v in_o they_o 1_o peter_z 1_o 11_o and_o you_o say_v what_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n preach_v etc._n etc._n be_v not_o christ_n the_o father_n or_o spirit_n when_o as_o the_o scripture_n say_v holy_a man_n of_o god_n speak_v as_o they_o be_v move_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n 2_o pet._n cap._n 1_o ver_fw-la 21._o reply_n word_n the_o quaker_n gross●_n confound_v of_o christ_n with_o the_o write_a word_n 1_o consider_v reader_n how_o gross_o he_o abuse_v and_o pervert_v the_o scripture_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o word_n that_o they_o speak_v be_v christ_n and_o the_o spirit_n because_o it_o be_v say_v these_o holy_a man_n of_o god_n speak_v as_o they_o be_v move_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n what_o a_o gross_a and_o blasphemous_a confound_v be_v here_o of_o the_o word_n that_o those_o man_n speak_v and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n that_o move_v they_o to_o speak_v make_v the_o word_n speak_v by_o a_o finite_a creature_n to_o be_v the_o everlasting_a spirit_n the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o word_n be_v commit_v to_o paper_n and_o ink_n rev._n 1_o heb._n 2.2_o engrave_v in_o table_n 2_o cor._n 3.7_o isay_n 30_o 8._o write_v it_o before_o they_o in_o a_o book_n note_v it_o in_o a_o book_n etc._n etc._n can_v this_o be_v christ_n or_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n and_o yet_o these_o be_v the_o thing_n which_o they_o be_v move_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o write_v who_o know_v not_o that_o it_o be_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n that_o move_v they_o to_o write_v that_o reveal_v the_o thing_n they_o be_v to_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n but_o be_v those_o thing_n that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n move_v they_o to_o write_v be_v those_o thing_n christ_n be_v those_o thing_n the_o spirit_n what_o a_o miserable_a ignorance_n or_o judicial_a blindness_n be_v this_o which_o certain_o the_o righteous_a judgement_n of_o god_n have_v give_v up_o this_o generation_n of_o people_n to_o because_o they_o receive_v not_o the_o truth_n in_o the_o love_n thereof_o that_o they_o may_v be_v save_v position_n 14._o that_o the_o spirit_n be_v not_o to_o be_v try_v by_o the_o scripture_n etc._n etc._n this_o position_n be_v not_o deny_v by_o nayler_n we_o prove_v it_o from_o three_o testimony_n and_o nayler_n in_o his_o answer_n add_v his_o own_o defence_n thereof_o without_o exception_n against_o any_o of_o our_o proof_n we_o shall_v take_v his_o argument_n for_o defence_n thereof_o in_o order_n excep_v 1_o the_o infallible_a spirit_n which_o be_v the_o original_n of_o all_o scripture_n be_v the_o trial_n of_o all_o spirit_n and_o that_o spiritual_a man_n judge_v all_o thing_n and_o by_o that_o spirit_n the_o saint_n be_v to_o judge_v of_o all_o spirit_n and_o give_v those_o up_o to_o satan_n that_o be_v for_o that_o end_n as_o be_v plain_a 1_o cor._n 5_o 4._o reply_v 1_o scripture_n the_o spirit_n not_o to_o be_v set_v in_o opposition_n to_o scripture_n the_o force_n of_o this_o argument_n by_o which_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o spirit_n be_v not_o to_o be_v try_v by_o scripture_n lie_v thus_o the_o infallible_a spirit_n be_v the_o trial_n of_o all_o spirit_n therefore_o spirit_n be_v not_o to_o ●e_v try_v by_o scripture_n to_o