lose that sweetness meekness love and humility that were in them formerly going into the water lambs and coming out again wolves and tygers c. SECT LXXVI THis 22. consideration hath such an operation upon you as Christs Sermon had upon some of the Iewes when they said Ioh. 10.20 He hath a Devil and is mad or as the Iews when they heard Paul speak of his being sent to the Gentiles Acts 22.22 Away with such a fellow from the earth it is not fit he should live The truth is did I not know you I would say your zeal against Mr. Goodwin seems to rise not only to anger but even to rage yea to envy it self as if like Esau you now resolved your Brothers nay your spiritual fathers death or at least the death of his name and honor a-among good men I have heard of one Fryer Augustine of Antwerp that preaching to the people against Luther wish't that Luther was there that he might bite out his throat with his teeth you seem to use M. Goodwin and his reputation in your answer to this 22. Consideration but even as David in his rage against the Ammonites putting them under sawes and harrows of tron and under axes of iron making them to pass through the brick-kilne or as Balacks anger against Balaam Numbers 24 10. made him clap his hands as him his colour to change his tongue to stammer his teeth to gnash his feet to stamp c. what have we here in answer but as it were thunder hail tempest from your supercilious and peevish pen but more particularly let us observe your answer First you lift Mr. Goodwin up for his old brave sayings Strapado-like that you might throw him down with the greater fall and reproach How doth Mr. Goodwins zeal in opposing us transport himselfe making him forget his old brave saying wherein he certainly had the spirit of God with him c. 2. You charge Mr. Goodwin that leaving his calm reasonings from Scripture he betakes himself to wrath and the weapons of reflection and presently your self reflects upon him what ever you can pick out of his writings to disparage him though in this you do like a Whifler carry a torch in your hand to shew to others your own deformity 3. Mr. Lamb that he might Gangrene his name to purpose and lay his honor in the very dust is searching and digging the field even of Golgatha it self to finde out the worst of rottenness and putrifaction he can to besmear him therewith mark his words He Mr. Goodwin shakes hands with the old enemy of the truth Gangraena in many of his methods c. Before I look into this Sepulchre I shall premise concerning the Author of Gangraena Mr. T. E. deceased and interr'd therein that however his zeal by the advantage of his natural temper and the multitude of bellows blowing it up even from all parts did indeed transport him beyond the due lines of Christian moderation in writing against his brethren differing from him about discipline yet for my part my hopes are that though those works of his will not be able to abide the fire but shall be burnt yet that he himself shall be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus and that God hath forgiven it unto him for he did it ignorantly and presuming he did his Master good service therein and I could wish that his dust might not be interrupted but that it might sleep in rest and peace and no more disturb'd untill it be refined and restored Nevertheless the said Sepulchre being opened by this unhappy hand striving if possible to thrust Mr. Goodwins fame and reputation into the mouth thereof and to bury it in everlasting reproach and contempt I cannot but endeavour to hold the arms of this unkinde ungâ—atefull and indeed unnatural once beloved Son and Disciple of his to prevent the issue of his desparate attempt Mr. Lamb compares Mr. G. to Mr. E. striving to make the parallel hold in five things 1. Did Mr. E. take up disparaging reports against honest men differing from himself in judgement so doth Mr. G. 2. Did Mr. E. publish those reports to their dishonour so doth Mr. G. 3. Did Mr. Edw. charge the unworthiness of some few upon the generality of the men of his displeasure so doth Mr. Goodw. 4. Did Mr. Edw. stir up the Magistrate against them so doth Mr. Goodw. 5. and lastly Did Mr. E. urge the writings of other men to disgrace them whom he opposed so doth Mr. Goodwin I reply first To the two first of your particulars yea and to the last also viz. the gathering and publishing the true reports evill customes and practises of those men that decline the wayes of God and the societies of the Saints under their pretended zeal for Gods glory and the salvation of mens souls and that for the christian caution of others either staggering and unsetled in the truth and recovery if it may be of some out of the snare of death these I say are practises of divine authority and approbation and to be reckoned among other the good wayes of God for the edification of the sons of men Mat. 16.6 Mark 12.38 Phil. 3.2 2 Tim. 3.6 2 Pet. 2.12 13 14 15. Iude 8.10.16 Rom. 16.17.18 To the third particular viz. the charging of the unworthiness of some persons to stain the honour of the generality of men of the same way judgement and practise this is scandalously charged upon Mr. Goodwin for he brings you the authority of Luther Calvin Beza Bucer and men of undoubted credit and worth for their piety learning life and conversation making mention not of one or a few but of the generality of men of that judgement and practise acting very turbulently and sinfully in the places where they lived and severall of the last quotations of Scripture will justifie that also To the fourth particular viz. That Mr. Goodwin stirred up the Magistrates in his Water-dipping c. against you or any others for matters of Religion the publick peace preserved is so foul false and foolish a charge as a man would think that the fore-head of a whore upon the face of a man had more modesty than to affirm it and certainly had you not given and rendred your self a very sad instance of the wofull change of your wonted Genius from what it was when you were amongst us and that you are the man that have made a sad shipwrack of that sweetness meekness love and christian humility of spirit c. I say had you not been a sad example and instance herein you that know Mr. Goodwins judgement and what he hath and doth dayly write concerning his faith in that point would not so boldly capriciously and peremptorily have written such falcities of him and except you quickly recover your self we cannot but fear the issue will be tragicall How can you revise those words of yours page 92. There is this only difference between you and M. Edwards in
that know him there being not many leaves pages or paragraphs therein not importing rankerous and maligne reflections upon him as if to prey upon his honour and feed upon the bloud of his reputation were the first-born of his desires and the longing of his soul as after the first ripe summer fruits Thence it is that this division which he loveth he so eagerly hunts after his pen 2s it were senting the track of his former writings Mr Lambs unkindnesâ— that it might bite him if it were possible at every turn and ever and anon he spends an arrow out of his Quiver seeking to hit him and fears not And having as he supposeth sped in his sport what a merry meeting is in Gath He rejoyceth Mr Goodwins adversarieâ— and feast made herewith in Askelon whereat the Daughters of the uncircumcised rejoyce and the Daughters of the Philistines triumph Well Offences will come How cruelly the man of his contention hath been dealt withall by the world yea and by men of better pretensions and that for the many good works which he hath done amongst them and for them is not unknown unto him But alas these are but the mint and cummin of his troubles He grieveth M Goodwin the mole-hils in his way But that his own Disciples and Scholars should be his executioners and that for nothing but his very judgment and conscience in and about the matters of his God that the sheep of his Flock yea the Lambs thereof should convert into Lyons and Tygers against him that his most hopeful and choisest trees and Vines should yeeld the apples of Sodom Grapes of gall and bitter closters that his pains and labour for their peace should at last prove not only vanity but vexation of spirit that like the Bird supposing it her own egge and in hopes to bring forth in her own likenes he should hatch up even Serpents eggs that strive to sting and devour him these cannot be but the great things of his affliction the mountains of grief threatning to bring his gray hairs with sorrow to the grave That those who were his late joy and crown of rejoycing while they stood fast in the Lord should now prove a Crown of bryars goads in his sides and thorns in his eyes what can this be but the very anguish of his soul But because Mr. Lamb pleads the glory of God the good of men the service of the truth in all that he hath written let us with all readiness of mind search the scriptures and see whether those things are so or no which with little lesse then even an Apostolical authority he would obtrude and impose upon our Judgments and Consciences for the Oracles of God and for that end let us consider the Title with all that follows The title of his Book runs thus in capital letters TRUTH PREVAILING AGAINST THE FIERCEST OPPOSITION M Lamb OR AN ANSWER TO Mr JOHN GOODWINS WATER-DIPPING c. SECT II. Mr Lamb having built and trim'd and rigg'd his ship Reply and as he supposeth rightly fraighted her ventures her to sea hoiseth up all his sails main-sail and fore-sail main top-sail top-gallant sail c not doubting but he shall ride it over the proudest waves in all storms or tempests or fiercest oppositions that have or can be made against him At his first lanching and setting of her forth here is the discharging of gun upon gun and gun after gun as if he would scare all the inhabitants of seas and shoars with the thundring noise thereof Hearken Truth prevailing against the fiercest opposition there 's one Or An Answer to Mr Goodwins Waterdipping c there 's another Wherein the invalidity of his Mr. Goodwins 23 Considerations c. there are 23 in one vollie together Together with a discovery of his great mistakes in the exposition of eight chief Scriptures c What a noise is here as if great fleets of arguments under the government of the most able Generals in the world must all vale and strike sail at this one Vessel The truth is M Lamb highly conceited of his Book the Title of his book is like a glittering gloworm seemingly ful of light and heat but if you touch it it hath neither Apothecaries boxes have sometimes goodlie titles when there is never a good drugg nor any thing medicinal in them It is like the name of a Nunnery on the out side upon the wals over the gates pretending nothing but Virginity within doors but a little search may discover as once to Gregory the great thousands of infants skuls cast into fish ponds which did argue foul doing under fair shews We have here Truth in the Title and all that is within must be of the same denomination doubtless How often is God intituled to that which his soul abhors 1 Sam 23.7 God hath delivered David into my hands saith Saul because he was in Keilah therfore he bears an alarum to all the people to march thither to take him Zecharie speaks of shepheards that slay the flock fleecing them instead of feeding them and yet intitle God to the benefit that came thereby Zach 11.5 Deut 23 18. They say blessed be God for I am rich We read of the hire of an Whore brought into the house of the Lord and I have heard that in Rome a Jewish Maid might not be admitted into the stews of Whoredom unlesse she should be first baptized 2 Sam. 11 45 David would not commit folly with Bathsheba until she was purified I have paid my vows said the Whore at her doors in the Proverbs an holy Whore as Edward the 4th was wont to cal one of the Nuns who attended him at pleasure out of the Nunnery Here is truth in the Title without truth in the Pamphlet like a window cushion beautiful without but rip it up you 〈◊〉 find it stuft up with nothing but trash and trumperie Let us but examine what is within these great swelâ—ing words in his Epistles and their Retinue To the Reader SECT Reply An apt similitude setting forth Mr Lambs conceit of truth without truth on his side III. UPon the perusal of the prescripts and manuscripts and postscripts of the book I called to remembrance a story that I have heard of some devout papists who through the cunning and cheating artifice of their ghostly fathers were charmed into very large and bountiful offerings unto a certain pretended holy relique wrapt up in several imbroidered and rich mantles and laid up in a certain place in a chappel consecrated for that purpose Among the troops of those zealous Votaries some diseased with the itch of curiosity were very importunate to see the said relick so famously spoken of abroad in the world were willing to purchase the same at a very considerable rate This relique being depolited in the hands of â—he reverend Father the keeper therof upon a certain day appointed for that purpose he came to give them a
your war against the truth and people of the most high he was your match in rage and fury but he wanted your keen wit and roaring language to set it off with I say how can you read them over and not look upon them as the abhorrencie of your soul and even melt in tears for them but the Leopers lips must be covered 2. Suppose Mr. Goodwin had exceeded the rules of christianity in this kind and stumbled at that stone whereat others dash themselves in pieces was it such a worthy piece of charity to the world to be edifified by you in the discovery thereof by you I say his Son in the faith I have heard of a father who complaining that never had man so undutifull a child as he his son to throw contempt enough upon him replyed with less grace than truth my Grandfather had Do not you likewife endeavour here to render Mr. G. worse than him whom with indeed very little charity also you style an old enemy of the truth 3. I appeal to your conscience do not you believe that Mr. Goodwins end in writing this 22. consideration as wel as any of the rest was not your spiritual peace and interest according to his best thoughts and apprehensions that you might remember from whence you are fallen and repent And is this so great a crime deserving from your justice so great a censure that you should thus stigmatize him for a man of rage of fury and of a roaring language to set it off with a man of cruel mockings contemptuous revilings c. 4. Whether you do not judge it incombent as a duty upon Elders Ministers and Pastors of Churches when they perceive a danger of their Churches defection in matters of faith and practise together with other arguments from Scripture and reason to present their people and flocks over which God hath made them Overseers with the corrupt and wicked conversations of those persons I mean of the generality of those persons of the same judgement notions and apprehensions against which they argue as being fully perswaded of the corruption thereof of a dangerous tendencie to root up destroy the flourishing congregations churches of the living God Suppose some of your people baptized as you call it and gathered to your self according to your own judgement should apostize to Popery to Judaism to Turcism to Rantism and that with the plea of conscience as supposing the truth to be on their fides would it be improper or impertment if you be their Pastor amongst other arguments for their reducement to inform them of the authenticque histories relating the cruelty of the Papists the tyrany of the Turks the frauds of the Jews the prophaneness of the Ranters c. and hath Mr. Goodwin done any more 5. How were you harrased tortured and perplexed in this your answer to this 22. Consideration as if in an agony between conscience and concupiscence one while lifting Mr. Goodwin up above all his fellows for disposition and conversation according to godliness a pattern of patience humility meekness temperance and this by 20 years experience a man that hath exceeded his brethren of the Ministery in the promotion of holyness and close walking with God there being not many in his time if any at all that hath managed the same with more authority life and power another while you write him comparable with the old enemy of the truth Gangraena between whom and Mr. Goodwin say you there is but this onely difference viz. that he had not so keen a wit and roaring language to set off his rage and fury as Mr. Edwards had 6ly and lastly Instead of answering those nine particulars mentioned in this 22 Consideration you fall foul upon M. Goodwin as if your pen was in an extacie of rage and discontent and this must pass for an answer to them all and so set it pass with them that can be content to be so answered Mr. Goodwins 23 Consideration amounts to this There is no substantial argument produced to justifie such a practice of separations upon such grounds neither do he believe ever will be To this you say VVhether we have not given arguments to justifie it more than one and that grounded upon the Scriptures and your own principles and indeed the principles of all the learned I refer say you to the judgment of the Reader SECT LXXVII IF your Reader be a child in malice and a man in understanding Reply if a noble Berrean and not a giddy-headed Galathian able to try the spirits to prove all things so as to hold fast that which is good if his eyes are in his head what can he see in what you have written but a reed shaken with the wind a bubble in the ayr having indeed curious colors but fill'd only with very breath What can he see but zeal without knowledge many good words to no good purpose the holy Scriptures miserably mangled and cut in pieces like the Levites Concubine and scattered abroad throughout your book What can he see but confidence of mastery upon the very throne evidence of truth upon the very dunghil shadows of arguments exalted above the stars of God and the truth of arguments brought low and as it were covered with worms What can he see but a child of light walking in darkness and a son of desire murthering the honor of his aged father What can he see but a stragling sheep wandring away from the flock of Christ a prodigal son turning his back upon his fathers family What can he see but your high presumption in cutting off and keeping away innocent babes from Christs benediction in tearing up and rending in pieces the Churches of Christ united together by a holy covenant in obtruding your meer fancies for the objects of Faith and your unscriptural conceits for the Oracles of God in cursing those armies of Israel and flocks of Christ whom he hath blessed and in calling them common and unclean whom hee hath clensed In a word what shall he see but that notwithstanding all that you have written yet WATER-DIPPING IS NO FIRM FOOTING FOR CHVRCH-COMMVNION SECT LXXVIII To conclude If your Reader of what you have written to answer M. Goodwin be also M. Goodwins Reader of what you have pretended to answer and a Reader of such a Character mentioned in the last Paragraph I need not in the least suspect his discerning faculty in observing your most importune weakness in discovering as you call it M. Goodwins great mistakes in the exposition of eight chief Scriptures about Church-communion the truth is as in the former part of your book you call darkness light so in the rear of it you call light darkness and as the real darkness of that pretended light so the manifest light of that which you here call darkness cannot but be evidently discerned by him that wil diligently search those Scriptures and examine what M. Goodwin and your self his corrector have offered as the
and most judicious Christians the true spirit of God doth not use to compell that is your own word to the Reader the more weak injudicious the milk-sops or babes in Christ as you must give me leave to judg you to be in comparison of those you contend withal viz. Mr Goodwin M Baxter to rise up with that majestick confidence in Mr Lamb a child of under standing in comparison with M Goodwin and Mr Baxter against whom he writes and of their own strength as if they could make the mountains of arguments levied against them to skip like rams and the little hils thereof like lambs in the presence of their even of their mighty pens and parts as if they were able to thrash the mountains and make the hils like chaff before the breath of their mouth and that all difficulties contradictions and the most able strong and fiercest oppositions should be as dust unto their sword and driven stubble unto their bow And my proof should be Rom 12 3 And I say through the grace given unto me to every man that is among you not to think of himself more highâ—y then he ought but to think soberly according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of Faith and the like Philip. 2 3 Let nothing be one through strife and vain-g ory but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better then themselves The confident and conceited man in doubtful cases hath seldome the truth on his side With the lowâ—â— is wisedom grace is given to the humble bashful shame-faced that thrust not themselves into observation The odoriferous Violet grows low to the ground-ward hangs its head downward hides it self with its own leaves and the spirit of God is not a spirit of compulsion in doubtful cases but of illumination But to proceed As pure Conscience at first separated me from that society whereof he Mr Goodwin is Pastor M Lamb to the Reader so now it compelleth me to make Answer to that Book not only to defend the truth cs SECT V. I Think here you speak more true then you are aware Reply Error of judgment often called by the name of purity of conscience for by what light law or rule from Gods Word is that Conscience guided that compelleth men to separate themselves from the societies of the Saints where they have often seen the face of God viz. the light of his countenance received daily and constant refreshings from his presence where the visions of life and immortality have been brought to light where they have had most excellent experience of the presence of Christ in the midst of them and have been rapt up as it were into the third Heavens receiving and partaking of joyes unspeakable and glorious I say where is that Conscience instructed from the Oracles of God to withdraw and separate from such a Church and society of Saints and that meerly because they durst not sinn against the light of their judgments and consciences M Lamb seperated from the Church because they keep in a good conscience because they cannot submit unto such practises as parts of Gods instituted Worship and service whereof they see not the least hint or glimmerings of light in the holy scriptures for their justification because they do that viz baptize their children which they judg themselves bound in conscience to do and forbear to do that viz submit to re-baptization or to be baptized again they supposing themselves baptized already which they believe in their consciences they should offend their Lord and master Jesus Christ if they should do And is not this our very case you cal us holy and be lâ—veà Brethren of like pretious faith with your selves a Church and yet you are compeld in Conscience to withdraw and separate from us and why not because you question our Saintship Gods love to us our love to God not that you think the effectual grace presence and spirit of God is not with us in our assembling together from day to day not that you think that the truth as it is in Jesus at least in respect of the great things of faith and love is not amongst us or that the blessed endowments and gifts of the spirit are not vouchsafed unto us but meerly because we wil not deny our Insant-baptisme and submit our selves to be baptized again in your way both which we profess in the presence of Almighty God who knoweth our hearts we dare not do as fearing we should offend against his majesty and provoke his Jealousie against us not having as we conceive upon serious perusal of his holy Word and several mens writings of piety ability of different apprehensions in the subject in hand the very least ground of the truth to justifie our selves if we should do so And we likewise call Heaven and Earth to record that in the study of these things we have renounced all hidden things of dishonesty all carnal and worldly considerations byassing us in the least herein as if it were to avoid the cross or to share with any earthly interest which steers us in our Judgment or practise and that it would be a vision of much peace satisfaction and contentment unto us if we ate out of the way to be better instructed and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who is blessed for ever more The Church froÌ„ which M. Lamb seperated could allow him his liberty in the business of baptism but he wil not allow them theirs knoweth that we lye not This is our case we that are the greater part of the Church by many degrees can bear with you and permit you to enjoy your own liberty but you cannot bear with us but have rent and torn your self from us and entitle the same unto the Word of God as justifying you therein These we shal examine when we come to your allegations of those Texts urged by you having already perused them again and again and the third time also and see not the least breathings of the spirit of God therein for your justification in your separation We find the great Apostle Paul in his writing to Churches cals them The beloved of God called to be Saints to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus Mr Lambs sepeperation against the current of the scriptures to the Saints in Achaia to the Saints at Ephesus to the Saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi to the Saints and faithfull Brethren in Christ at Collâ—sse I say we find the Apostle writing to these provokes them to love to good works to edifie one another to frequent the assembling of themselves together to bear with one another in love to watch over one another to be knit together in love to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace to take heed of rents divisions and separationâ— one from another c You judg us or else why have you written us the beloved of God a Church of
now and somwhat at another time speaks unto his people Whether I go thou canst not follow me now but thou shalt follow me HEREAFTER said Christ to Peter 13 John 36. But to returne to my dear friend the Antagonist how many Exhortations have we in scripture to love to edifie one another to build up one another in our most holie Faith can these things be done by seperations and departing away one from another How many dehortations are there against schisms rents and divisions against forsaking the fellowship of the Saints and the Churches of Jesus Christ which you have owned us to be by your pen and I know You cannot without violence offered unto Your soul and conscience yea You dare not denie it And had your Conscience judgment affections been enlightned and heated by the fire of Gods sanctuarie you would have better considered then so suddenlie and rashlie have rent your selfe from us and written so impertinentlie for the justification thereof But to proceed You tel your Reader the several reasons why you wrote that Book As pure Conscience c. so now compelleth me to make Answer to that Book c. not only TO DEFEND THE TRUTH to the therein opposed c. Mr Lamb to the Reader SECT VI. TO defend the truth opposed by Mr Goodwyn Error always defended under the notion of truth Everymans way is right in his own eyes The Turks stile themselves the only Mausulmans or true beleevers in the world The Papists the onlie Catholicks the Jew the holie Nation the peculiar people the gnosticks of old the onely knowing men * The Manachees derived their name from Manna as if what they taught was to received as the only food that came down from Heaven what Sect partie or faction professing any Religion but doth it under the pretence and notion of Truth and withstand their opposits as do those that defend the truth the very Banters Shakers Quakers do they not all plead truth do you defend the truth with untruthâ— by scandalizing abusing the defenders of the truth as you have M. Goodwin wherof you must hear know before we have done with your book but do you defend the truth with the meer name of truth without any spirit or power of truth Let any man that hath as much ill umination inspection or abilitie as to discern truth from untruth in the ABC things of the scriptures he shal see that your greatlie conceited swords spears darts which You have prepared in your Book to defend the truth as you cal it are but straw stubble rotten wood to those against which you contend And indeed you make use of them as these Egiptians do of their darts which they shoot against the sunne that scorcheth them But alas it is out of their reach scorch them it wil wil they wil they and their darts fal down again upon their own heads But you say you wrote your book not onely to de-defend the truth but first To vindicate your self with some others from the heavy charge therein given to the whole world against you as faith and trust-hreakers sacrilegious Church-breakers c. SECT VII YOu wrot your book not onely to defend the Truth but also you might have said chiefly to vindicate your self c I remember when Christ said unto his Disciples that one of them should betray him he that was guiltie was forward to demand Master is it You writ your book to vindicate your self from the heavy charge therein viz in Mr. Goodwins book given against you Are you so much as once named in that book do not you expose your self by name to be that man of an abused and distempered fancy of disingenuity of a wonderful and strange alteration for the worse which by name you were never charged to be Did you not plight your faith to walk with them whom you call holy and beloved Brethren as a member of that Church whom you stile a Church can this he done by your separation from them have not you broken trust and promise with them And could this arise from any thing but a most miserably abused and distempered fancy Have not you indeavoured to divide Pastor from people and people from pastor to demolish and tear up by the roots as thriving as loving as wel governed a Church a Church as ful of charity and good works as beautiful an edefice where Jesus Christ hath dwelt and manifested his delight therein by the comfortable influences of his truth and presence upon the hearts of your self and Brethren as eyes beheld is not this sacriledg Return return O blacksliding Isâ—aâ—ite remember from whence you are fallen and repent Your second reason of writing your book is in these words 2ly Mâ— Lamb to the Reader To make the world Judges whether we are at Mr Goodwin represented us persons of a misused and distempered sancie of stupifled Judgments to whose understanding common sense is a mistery inaccessible witâ— abundance more to the sâ—me purpose SECT VIII HEre is I fear in this reason also more of the secrets of your heart then you wel consider Reply Mâ— Lamb greatly conceited of his own abilities manifested in his Book For what is the meaning of it is it not to make the woâ—ld Judges that you are men of solid Judgements great parts strong abilities Why let them look upon your book and then let the world be Judges whether men of such abilities parts and reason as are evident and conspicuous therein are such men as Mr Goodwin doth thus undervalue Let the world be Judges if they wil but read your book whether that one of your arguments doth not chase ten and five an hundred and an hundred of yours put ten thousand of Mr Goodwins to flight That every one of your reasons is as a King against whom there is no rising up that when your sun of light appeareth all Mr Goodwins twincling stars must hide their heads Hence it is that you so often invite the Heavens and the Earth and the world to behold and look upon you and Ms Goodwin upon a publick Theater in print and see how handsomlie you handle your sword and hit and thrust M Goodwin therewith ever and anon how you can fight with him with arguments fight with him with scriptures nay fight with him with his own weapons his own Writings how you can wrastle with him and give him fall upon fall and fal after fal and make good sport for the spectators Remember Solomons councel Be not wise in thine own eyes and Pauâ—â— direction he that would be wise must be a fool that he may be wise A conceit of wisdom bars out wisdom If M Goodwin or any others by pen or other way should so much injure the happiness of the world as to hide you from them that they cannot behold your glorie this is a cup that you are not able to drink of a baptism that you cannot be baptized withall Your glorie
ignis fatuus and conducted into Samaria in the midst of mistakes Sands his relation mentioneth a prophane Sect not long since in Aragon who affecting in themselves a certaine angelical puritie fel suddenlie to the very counterpoint of justifiing beastilitie and yet called themselves the illuminati as if they onlie had been in the light and all the world besides in darkness The Jesuits boast that the Church is the soul of the world the Clergie of the Church and they of the Clergie Wel but the Truth is dearer unto you then any man that is your opinion then any man How apt are men to assert their own opinion for tryth Though the Pharises and the Saduces were of one faith touching their oposition against Paul while they knew not of whose Judgment he was yet when he had discovered himself to be a pharesee all the Pharise stuck unto him 23 Act. 9. Jer 14 14. How often are the brats of mens own brains a 〈◊〉 vision and divination a thing of nought a deceit of their heart insisted upon as the great Truth of God Yea urged and prosecuted with a violent opposition of the palpable and manifest truths of God The Truth is dearer unto you then any man that is your apprehensions that children must not be baptized that men believers at age onlie ought to be baptized though they were baptized in their infancie that being a nulâ—tie Where can we find this great Truth in all the writings of Gods Word it is indeâ—d a serted by your self and several others of the like authoritie But alas must we receive the writings of S. The scriptures know no such truth as Mr Lamb so magnifieth as the great truth of the gospel Dominick with the same honour and credence as those of S Paul Reading the bible said a Jesuit wil sooner make a man a Luthern-Heretick then a Roman-Catholick And at a publick Assemblie of the States of Germany one Albertus a Bishop by chance lighted upon a bible and reading therein one of the counsellors asked him what book that was I know not said he but this I know that whatsoever I reade in it is utterlie against our Religion So John Bishop of Misnia confessed that reading the holie bible he found there in a Religion much differing from that that was then established being poperie Certainlie an ingenious and impartial reader of the holie sciptures Old and new Testament shall find so many expressions importing the grace and favour of God through Jesus Christ unto children as that it wil hardlie enter into his beliefe that it should be the wil and pleasute of God that henceforth viz after Moses administrations are dead buried they must no more be numbred or reckoned among the familie of God but all cast out as illegitimate And when you handle the scriptures about this point how miserablie do you like the cammel with his feet before he drink of the clear waters lest he should see his deformitie trouble and muddifie the waters disturbing the plain sense and meaning thereof as we shall manifest when we come to examine your allegations of Scripture for your purpose But to proceed you tell us that Mr Mr Lamb to his Reader Goodwins credit alwaies was and stil is right dear and pretious in my sight SECT X. THis clause puts me in mind of what I have heard of two Philosophers Mr Labms pen stumbles at his duty but vents the contrary the one knocking at the others doore and demanding of a Maid that came to the door whether her master was within her master bid her say that he was not within and the Philosopher that was at the door heard him with which answer the man went away seemingly satisfied After a while the other Philosopher came unto his door and knocking the master of the house himself asked him what he would have I would speak with you said he I am not within said the Philosopher Not within said He why you speak to me from within With that said the Philosopher that was within thou clown wouldst thou have me believe thy maid vvhen she said thou wert not vvithin and vvilt thou not believe me my self vvhen I say I am not vvithin He vvould have him believe a most appatent untruth what ever Mr Goodwins credit was is it stil RIGHT dear and precious in your sight What means then your injurious and unchristian reflections upon Him What the same fountain send forth both sweet and bitter Waters It is said of the Jesuits as of false phisicians Officiosè occidunt they kiss and kil familiarlie Squire being sent out of Spanie to muther Queen Elizabath was taught to anoint the pummel of her saddle with poyson and to cry aloud in the hearing of the people when he clap it there on with his hand God save the Queen But as Christ said to Him that betraid Him with a kiss friend for so thou vvouldst be esteemed by a kiss wherefore art thou come as friend or as a foe if a friend vvhat mean these svvords if a foe vvhat means this kiss so say I to you is Mr Goodwins credit stil right dear and pretious in your sight what means then your Edwardizing Hâ—m your gangreninizing Him your six-book-sellerring him your unhandsome and capricious handling him from place to place His Credit seems to be as right dear and precious in your sight when you wrote that book as the honour of Iesus Christ was unto them that Crown'd him indeed but with a Crown of Thoms put a Reed into his hand instead of a Scepter did bow the knee unto him with Haile King of the Iews Just as King Richard the second who when he was to be deposed was brought forth in Royall Array whereof he was presently despoyled But you justifie your present adversariness against Mr. Goodwin because it is for the Truths sake and bring in Paul reproving and that sharply too his beloved Brother Peter for his dissembling 2 Gal. 11. But is the case like this Can you with the authority of Paul charge Mr. Goodwin with the dissembling of Peter Or are you perswaded in your conscience that Mr. Goodwin argues against his conscience Paul charged Peter to his face for his unmeet contemporizing with the Iews and Gentiles to please both against his conscience Therefore Mr. Lamb may charge Mr. Goodwin in print before the face of the whole world because he will not contemporize with him and those of his judgement and comply with the Church to please them also Peter was justly reproveable by Paul for sinning against the rationall ducture of his Light therefore Mr. Goodwin is justly reproveable by Mr. Lamb because he will not sin against the guidance of his Light Is not here strange texting it After this rate of reasoning are the rest of the Scriptures quoted by you insomuch as he thar reads you seriously and knew the School of your spirituall instruction in the things of the scriptures might wel say
in the Name of the Father Son and Spirit and that too amongst the last words he spake on Earth I Shall only offer this that those words in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost do not imply the huge solemnity of the administration to speak in your uncouth expression but a consecrating them unto the service of God discovered now unto them more clearly than formerly to be the Father Son and Holy Ghost it makes not one hair of the head of your Opinion about baptizing of persons at age c. white or black And whereas you add with an Emphasis viz. and that too amongst the last words he 1. Christ spake on earth it is so impertinently brought in by you to your purpose that these first words shall be the last words that I shall speak unto them and therefore shall proceed to your third Consideration which you give out thus 3. I find Mr. Lamb in the second Epistle that he Christ intended not the reiteration of it baptism by the same person and that therefore there ought to be all due care of practising it without corruption SECT XXXIV WE have digged in the same field of the Scriptures with you Reply Rebaptization condemned by Mr. Lamb himselfe and have found the same treasures with your self touching what you say in this consideration Only give us a like liberty with your self to add an Use of Reproof or of Correction to yours of Instruction viz. that seeing Christ intended not the Reiteration of baptism that therefore those are here to be reproved for their extream boldness and presumption that shall press persons already consecrated unto the service of the Father Son and Holy Ghost at the Waters of their baptism in the time of their infancie and that upon terms little lower than upon their salvation to a Reiteration of their baptism contrary to the intention of Iesus Christ Your fourth consideration runneth thus 4. Mr. Lamb. I found the design of Christ in the Ordinance it selfe be exceeding rich and spirituall namely amongst many other ends c. SECT XXXV THE Ordinance of baptism is indeed Reply exceeding rich and spirituall but I fear while you seek out the spiritualness and richness thereof administred unto such persons only and after such a manner as you plead for instead of finding these you lose the richness and spiritualness of the baptism you have received in your infancie which however it is or hath been unto you yet that Ordinance administred unto others in their infancie and duly improved in their riper years hath been as a cloud dropping fatness upon their souls and as the Tree of Life yeilding various fruits every month yea every moment of rich and pleasant tasts unto their spiritual palate You proceed in this fourth consideration to shew us wherein consists those rich and Spirituall designes of Christ As 1. Mr. Lamb. To oblige the Disciples unto Christ that as circumcision bound men to keep the law of Moses so doth baptism to keep the law of Christ. Therefore the Spirit borroweth the word baptism which respecteth Christ to express the obligation of the Jews to the law of Moses 1 Cor. 10.2 and were all baptised unto Moses SECT XXXVI HErein I confess that in my judgement you speak after Reply Mr. Lamb by consequents grants that children doe capable subjects of baptism notwithstanding theio infancie or according unto the Oracles of God and the analogy of faith For if circumcision bound men that is those that were partakers of it who were children in their infancie as well as men of riper years if I say circumcision bound the subjects thereof who were children as well as men to keep the Law of Moses why should not baptism bind them to keep the Law of Christ For if circumcision taken or received by children at eight dayes old did binde these children when they came to years of discretion to keep the Law of Moses what tolerable shadow or shew of reason can be given why that Baptism administred now unto children should not also bind them all the after-dayes of their lives to keep the Law of Christ I very much honour and approve of your Orthodoxism in this point at this turn You proceed Further the design of Christ is to affect the heart by the will of God seen in the Ordinance of Baptism Mr. Lamb. as well as heard in the word preached c. SECT XXXVII TO grant you this also in a due and qualified sense were but to grant you out of the aboundance of our own apprehensions in the truth thereof These holy designs of Christ in baptism Reply are as effectually brought about and his heavenly hand hath found out his enterprize herein by baptism administred unto Infants as by the administration of it unto others at age Your four first considerations premised you advance to the fifth This being the plain design of Christ in the ordinance Mr. Lamb. I considered Infants-Sprinckling which ordinarily goeth for baptism and found the great designe of Christ in a manner frustrate by it because there is no Sign or figure of any such thing as death burial and resurrection and consequently not that Sermon of the Gospel which Christ intended to make by it as is most evident by Scriptures which palpably discovereth it to be a humane invention SECT XXXVIII IT seems you took Infant-sprinckling called baptism Reply into your consideration as the Iews did Christ when they looked upon him as the Carpenters Son or as a Root out of a dry ground having no form or comeliness and beauty that it should be desired Mat. 13.55 And hence it is that it is despised and rejected and not esteemed by you Well however to us that believe our Infant-baptism to be by Gods appointment it is precious but unto those that be disobedient unto Gods will therein it is a Stone of stumbling and a Rock of offence I believe it hath been of a higher esteem with you There were some that grew miserably defective both in their opinion of and respects unto the Apostle Paul who once could be willing to pull out their eyes for him which argued themselves but not the Apostle to decline in godliness The true Reason why infant-baptism doth no more good unto some men The truth is as Christ could do no great miracle among those that did not believe even so your misbelief of the mind of God in your Infant-baptism hath hindred the rich and spirituall effects thereof upon your heart and soul But you say You found the great design of Christ frustrate by it viz. by sprinckling of Infants SECT XXXIX IT is not one of the least of mercies purchased by Iesus Christ Reply that there is an attonement made for the ignorances of his people The froward in heart finde no good certain I am if there be tares in that field of Infant-baptism that God sowed wheat there and it
according to your Notion of it this being to shew forth the buriall of Christ Is not this an earthly and dull interpretation representation and exposition of water in baptism as you carry it Again to represent unto us the Resurrection of Christ you must manage it thus First here is water the outward visible Sign 2. What must be signified thereby It cannot be the blood of Christ. For as Christ was not buried in his own blood so he did not rise out of his own blood That that must answer water here also must be the earth again out of which Christ rose Is not this a most fansifull and unscripturall use of the word Water But you will object and say The Scriptures themselves are their own best Interpreter and the best Interpreter likewise of Gods Ordinances And do not the Scriptures refer our dipping in water to Christs buâ—â—all our rising out of water to Christs resurrection Rom. 6.4 5. VVe are buried with him by Baptism unto death that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father so we also should walk in newness of life For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection c. Col. 2.12 Buryed with him in baptism wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God who hath raised him from the dead SECT XLV THese doubtless are your thoughts and these are the main Scriptures wherein you so much boast that you have found out the truth in the matter of difference between us in this point Ans as if they were as plain clear and express for your turn as words and expressions can make them And this is the evidence of the Scriptures which manifesteth the palpableness of the error of our practise as baptizing Infants by sprinckling But if a man shall seriously consider it will appear that it is not the Text but your interpretation of it that thus magnifie And it is your i. e. and not Christs scriptum est that you call by the name of truth cloath'd with the majesty of God with other great swelling words You deal with us in this point Anabaptists Anti-Remonstrants bring their meaning 〈◊〉 the Scriptures and then force it upon their brethren for the Oracles of God as some others do about the Doctrines of the extent of Christs death of election and reprobation of the liberty of the will of man c. who declining the express letter of the Text bring their interpretation-sense and meaning to the Text contrary to the interpretation sense and meaning of other persons whose abilities piety parts and worth are no way inferiour to their own These likewise will take upon them to digest their opinions and interpretations of such Texts into certain positions and these must be Articles of faith fundamentalls in Religion the Golden Reeds laid up even in the very Sanctuary of God to try other mens doctrines withall If they speak according to their sense then they speak as the Oracles of God and according to the analogy of Faith then they pass for Orthodox they have a sacred and fatherly benediction an authoritative God-speed in the work of the Ministry speaking according to that rule there is a peace be upon them and upon all such the Israel of God And so they pass with an Ecclesiasticall vale to preach and premulgate their presumed notions for articles of faith If you on the other-hand and any person comes before them sitting together cloathed as it were with glory and majesty from on earth viz. the authority of man he is presently brought to the rest that as the Papists Prelates in the Marian-dayes when they would know â—n Heretick would presently demand of any brought before them what do you be believe concerning the Sacrament of the Altar Even so these demand what do you believe concerning the extent of Christs death election reprobation the power of the will falling away c. If they answer never so pertinently to every one of these speaking only the very Scripture phrase and nothing else though therein they exercise and manifest much learning much dexterity in the Scriptures much holyness of mind sweetness of lip yet though they spend severall hours and dayes in such examinations and such answers yet they are judg'd subtile men that speak warily and covertly And so long as they will speak nothing but the Language of the Scriptures they are put off or put by their enemies their Judges not being satisfied who in a word will not pass them for Orthodox untill they leave off and desist to give their answers thus in Parables I mean in Scripture sayings and speak plainly whether they do or will receive their conceits and plucits the brood of their own brain without sound proof of Scripture for the infallible truth of God If they do not or wil not it is not their piety their parts their gifts of knowledg and utterance their University education and perficiencie of learning it is not Certificates though never so authenticque of their holy life and unspotted conversation that shall serve their turn they are laid aside as men unsound in the faith men that believe and will preach another Gospell their truth or tormentors rather thus making their own judgments and opinions in the said points their positions and articles by themselves made not only equall with but above the Holy Scriptures themselves Or as the Pope and his Cardinalls make their Canons and decrees of equall authority with the Scriptures sending out their Bulls and Excommunications against those that refuse to receive them or as the Mahometan Priests and Turks will not suffer Mebomet-Dictates to be questioned upon pain of death even so you produce Scriptures against the baptizing of children which you say give a distinct sound that it is against the will of God to baptize such that such were never baptized that the manner of baptism according to Gods express will and word is by dipping c. which Scriptures notwithstanding make no more for the same than those Texts that say that two Sparrows are sold for a farthing that they took up so many Fishes that the Net broke c. And yet he that shall not receive your interpretations nay though Paul or an Angell from heaven say otherwaies he is as a man accursed from Christ you excommunicate such men unchurch them holding them unfit to partake of the Ordinances of Gods House although the Texts in the mean time urged and produced by you as Balaam by Balack to curse us yet do not curse but bless us altogether For confirmation hereof let us examine the two Texts last quoted by you Rom. 6.4 5. VVe are buryed with him by Baptism c. Colloss 2.12 VVe are buryed with him in Baptism c. What is here against baptizing of children what to justifie separation from churches baptized only in their infancie What is
thereof The proof of Childrens baptism in Scripture is hard Ergo impossible Can you be offended that any that should reason thus should be esteemed by rational men persons of a maimed fancie having their judgments and understandings stupified distraught and confounded Are these Arguments Men or the shadows of the Mountains Are not most and greater terms of comparisons and must these exclude all positives He that should say Mr. Lamb is the most ingenious in all his Family doth he deny the least degree of ingenuity in his children He that saith I trust the parallel will please you Mr. Lamb is the most Christian most Charitable most Edifying most Wise most Holy most Humble among his Brethren doth he deny that there is any christian charitable edifying wise holy and humble person amongst them all except M. Lamb If Mr. Baxter hath said more for your way in those few words and that upon pure principles of reason then he hath said against it in all his whole book his whole book would as much edifie the world were it in ashes as it doth now in ink and paper inriched with truth But alas the light of God shining therein will like the Sun in the Firmament run its course and prosper against all that shall rise up against it Again Do not you blush when you read over this your emphaticall query importing an assertion with might and majesty of truth Doth not plain Scripture proof and dark Scripture proof directly oppose Doth Scripture proof oppose Scripture proof Scripture proof is Scripture proof whether plain or dark and must the one oppose the other because the one is plain and the other is dark Is the Sun in its brightness and the Sun in a cloud opposite Can there be no proof fetcht from the Scriptures but that that is in the plain expressions of the letter Again because Mr. Baxter speaks on the surer side of the hedg hath the hedge therefore but one side Because Mr. Baxter saith it is safe baptizing those that are actuall believers not being baptized before doth he â—imply that it is safe refusing or neglecting to baptize infants What shall we say If a spiders web be as bars of Brass to you there is no hope It agreeth not with the wisdome and goodness of Christ Mr. Lamb. that Baptism should be so dark as Mr. Baxter saith it is c. SECT LI. MR. Baxter doth not say it is so dark as that the way thereof is not plain enough to be found by men that will seek it out Reply and enquire after it And it is agreeable to Gods wisdome and goodness that it should be as his wisdom and goodness have declared it to be in the Scriptures and it is no argument of your wisdome and goodness to question the same SECT LII Your 12th Particular is built upon a false foundation viz. that by baptism persons are immembred into churches which you have not yet proved Your quotation of Act. 2.42 will not prove your position Act. 2.42 Mr. Lamb. Observe your argument they that were baptized were added to the Church ergo all baptized persons in the Apostles dayes were Church-members May not I as well argue thus they that heard the word were baptized ergo all that heard the word in the Apostles dayes were baptized To insist more upon this would be but to follow you in speaking much to little purpose SECT LIII Your 13th Argument is barren of proof altogether viz. that infant-baptism agreeth to the carnall I presume you mean sinfull and wicked interest of men that preach for filthy lucre c. It is wholly denyed standing upon your own bare affirmation which shall pass having your own image and superscription upon it and if any wil take it for current coyn let him inrich himself with it if he pleaseth SECT LIV. HAving thus given us your grounds of your separation from us as if you had made us all proselytes by them having now drawn us not with the cords of a man but as it were of an Angell you justifie your self in your way and bless your self with an expectation not only of peace but even of reward as a man that hath now contended for the faith viz. Gods mind and pleasure that children should not be baptized that was once delivered to the Saints no where to be found in holy writ as of a man that had followed the example of the holy men of old in separating themselves from their holy and beloved brethren as of one that hath followed the Lord fully by forsaking his Church and people as one that hath kept the nationall covenant by breaking covenant which he made with the Church of Christ What shall I say He feeds upon ashes a deceived heart hath turned him aside that he cannot deliver his soul nor say is there not a lye in my right hand SECT LV. BEfore you have made an end of your Epistle you have yet one parting-blow again at Mr. Goodwin after the manner of some of his quondam adversaries who as you here have twitted and upbraided him with what he once writ to Mr. Thomas Goodwin touching separation from Parish Churches as you intimate as being a weak fleeting and uncertain man though for your part you profess it is not Mr. Goodwins shame you seek for hereby I believe your conscience will not say it was his glory that steerd your pen herein M. Goodwin no separate from the godly Presbyterians in his reformation as M. Lamb affiâ—ms But to answer you and all other Scribes of the same Order with you touching this point First know that Mr. Goodwin never came to Coleman-street at first as a parish-person nor after the manner of such mens inductions into parishes but there being a considerable pious and godly party in that parish who having a longing desire to enjoy the Ordinances of God in purity purchased the impropriation thereof whereby they enjoyed the liberty of chusing their own Minister And Mr. Davenport their Pastor having left them the said party made choice of Mr. Goodwin to be their Pastor and accordingly a considerable number of them did fetch him unto them He and they lived together severall years upon the best terms of purity and reformation in the Ordinances of God which their light and the frowardness of the times did admit 2. That when Mr. Goodwin wrote to Mr. M. John Goodwin not contrary in his practise to what he writ to Mr. Thomas Goodwin when he was in Holland as hath been injuriously cast in his teeth by his adversaries formerly now by Mr. Lamb also after the rest Thomas Goodwin as aforesaid the said Mr. Thomas Goodwin was in Holland as your self observe at which indeed Mr. Goodwin was offended namely that the holy learned and good men of those times such as Mr. Thomas Goodwin and others were should break away out of the Nation taking with them the hewen-stones of Gods Temples as you know many went away into severall
their Church-fellowship they are ashamed of them of whom Christ is not ashamed Heb. 2.11 It follows then that Christ must look upon them as having a conceit that they have either more holyness or dignity than Christ himself in that they are ashamed of those of whom Christ is not ashamed c. SECT LIX To this you answer by granting the truth of the consideration but offer that no mans faith was accepted with God in the premitive times who was found sticking at any of his commandments Now baptisme being the express command of Christ you insinuate no man must be owned by you as Brethren that stict at it as we do If this be not your insinuation you say nothing but grant all that M. Goodwin affirms and your self to be convicted of disowning Christs brethren as ashamed of them if this be your sense 1. I Reply That you have owned us for holy brethren Mr. Lamb owns those for holy brethren beloved of God believers a Church and yet separates from them as walking in the right faith of the gospell as beloved of God therefore you are condemned by your own mouth 2. You insinuate that we stick at the commands of Christ which is an uncharitable and scandalous insinuation We dare not receive your weak and shallow interpretation of Scripture for the commands of Christ you must prove it the command of Christ that persons baptized in their infancie must be baptized again that childrens baptism is forbidden in Scripture or a nullity you may sooner be able to shew us one of the feathers of the Raven that fed Elias than shew us any such thing and yet you boast that you have the express will of God the plain word of Christ the command of God c. for the same you take your dead and unsound interpretation of Scripture 1 King 3.20 as the Harlot her dead child and cast it in the bosome of the holy Scriptures and this you would enforce upon us as the off-spring of Gods word and after a most proud and popish manner you exalt your interpretation as equipolent with the Text and the rejection thereof by those that differ from you is the rejection of the command of Christ the sticking at it is to stick at the command of God exalting your interpretation of the Scriptures above beyond or besides all that is called Gods speaking perverse or distorted things to discerp or violently drag Disciples after you and indeed bringing your sense to the Scriptures and setting it cheek-by-jowle with the Scriptures and not receiving it from the Scriptures 3. Do you make no difference between sticking as you call it at a known duty and at a doubtful practise did not you once stick at it your self as we do and had the person done you no wrong that should then affirm that you never gave any visible testimony or fruit of your faith until you were newly baptized From the 9th Page of your book speaking to M. Goodwins third consideration you take an excursion even unto the 32. Page quite forsaking the business in hand and repeating M. Allens Arguments about baptism which have been answered once and again by Mr. Goodwin and to run after you is to persue the wind which will bring nothing but vanity in the latter end Mr. Goodwins fourth Consideration runs thus such persons whom God judgeth fit for communion with himself upon grounds visible unto men ought not to be judged unmeet for communion with the holyest of men Rom. 14.1 2. Act. 10.31 Rom. 14.17 18. 1 Iohn 1.7 that you therefore acknowledg us to have worth yea more worth holiness righteousness the fear and love of God in us than many among your selves baptized after your own minds have and separating from us and not receiving us into fellowship with you in Church-communions do sin contrary to the truth of this consideration To this you say 1 The persons to whom the Apostle wrote Rom. 14. were baptized 2 That by the word receiving is not meant into Church-fellowship but into common respect and brotherly familiarity 3. That though it should be to receive them into Church-communion it doth not follow that they should be disorderly received 4. Upon this ground godly Presbyterians godly Episcopal men godly Papists nay honest Heathens should be admitted into Church-communion 5. That it is contrary to Mr. Goodwins own practise and having here gotten as you suppose Mr. Goodwin under your feer you flourish your naked sword as if the trophies of victory must make halt to your temples for you say who then may not see c. but hold a little SECT LX. 1. VVHat if the persons spoken of Rom. 14. were baptized which we shall grant Reply Rom. 14.1 2. There may be visible testimony of faith without baptism whether you be able to prove it or no what is this to impeach the truth of the consideration Could not the persons give visible testimony of their communion with God before their baptization or though they had never been baptized If so why were they baptized having given no testimony that they did believe and so were fit for baptism again if so why do you call us holy and beloved brethren though not baptized to speak in the language of Ashdod if there could be a visibility of their communion with God without baptism the rule imported in the consideration takes place whether they were baptized or no. 2. By the word receive say you is not meant into Church-fellowship but into common respects I reply 1. Their very being in Church Fellowship the greater and more spirituall Fellowship required much more their reception into common respect certainly they that do the great things of the law wil not stick at the tything of Mint and Commin 2. If the Apostle would have them to receive them into common respect they being already in Church-fellowship then would not he have any dis-respect at all in any kind cither common or special upon the account of their different apprehensions in some things there being a visible testimony of their faith and that God hath accepted them what then have you gotten here also for your purpose You object 3. Though it should be to receive them into Church-communion it doth not follow they should be disorderly received I reply If Scruple had been about the order or manner of their reception some being weak in the faith hereabout if God hath accepted them except you will put them upon new terms which God never did and be wise above what is written receive them for the reason you see is for God hath accepted them You go on 4. Upon this ground godly Presbyterians Episcopal Popish nay beathenish persons may be received I reply If a Presbyterian a prelaticall man a Papist nay a heathen can give a visible testimony of his communion and fellowship with God and that God hath accepted him though he should scruple the manner of baptism and severall circumstances therein and should make his