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A09831 The refutation of an epistle, written by a certain doctor of the Augustins order within the citie of Leige together with the arguments, which he hath borrowed from Robert Bellarmine, to proue the inuocation of Saints. By Iohn Polyander, minister vnto the French Church in Dort: and now translated by Henry Hexham, out of French into English. Polyander à Kerckhoven, Johannes, 1568-1646.; Hexham, Henry, 1585?-1650? 1610 (1610) STC 20096; ESTC S100869 112,398 138

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through infidelitie and Moses through ingratitude not glorifying God who gaue him water out of the rock And in his 45. Sermon vpon S. Matthew he maketh mention of the Virgin Maries ambition which moued her to importune our Lord Iesus Christ to doe miracles And vpon this sentence of the 14. Psalme and third verse There is none that doth good no not one he citeth again for confirmation hereof the vices and imperfections of the Virgin Mary and of all the Disciples of our Lord Iesus Christ saying that when Christ was crucified there was none that did good all his Disciples fled away Iohn starke naked Peter denied him and the s●ord of doubt or di●fidence pierced the soule of the Virgin Mary Among other arguments which your Doctors vse to verifie that which you haue proposed in the beginning of your Epistle to wit y ● the Church hath taught approued the inuocation of Saints for the space of 1605. yeeres behold one of the principall saith namely that the Gentiles into which number Iulian the Apostate ranked himselfe called the Christians Idolaters aswell for the veneration of Saints as for that of Angels But to refute your proposition and to discouer the falsehood thereof I will here cite that answere which S Cyril Patriarch of Alexandria gaue expressely to Iulian the Apostate vpon that false accusation and reproch It is not so as thou thinkest replied S. Cyril to Iulian the Emperour that we deifie a man and that we should not giue the honor of adoration to him which by nature is God but we say rather that the Word proceeded from the Father by whom all things haue bin created and who ordained to saue mankinde hath taken flesh and hath bin made man He is not worshipped as thou saist and wouldest beleeue in that he is man for why should we say so but acknowledging that this man which appeared to vs is the Word of God we goe vnto him in as much as he is also God and who came from God the immutable Father As for the Martyrs we reckon them not as Gods neither haue we accustomed note this word to worship them we only praise them and honour them with great honours because valiantly they haue fought for the truth and in that they ●eld the puritie of their faith euen to despise their owne liues Besides thy Plato saith of such as haue liued well and died honorably that they are made Demons that is to say Gods and that after their death they ought to be serued and their sepulchres worshipped But as for vs we say not that the holy Martyrs are made Gods but haue accustomed to honour them as much as may be yeelding them euery where in recompence of their noble vertues a memorie that neuer perisheth Neither shall you euer proue that we worship men or should attribute to them the glory of God He sheweth the like in his bookes of the Trinitie and in his Commentaries vpon the Gospell of S. Iohn We come not vnto God saith he in his first booke of the holy Trinitie otherwise then by Christ. And in his third booke Our faith iustifieth and maketh vs familiar with God and aduanceth vs neere vnto him This faith is not simply in the man but in the nature of God and in as much as the Word was in the flesh And in his Treatise of true faith Our faith and hope is in God when Christ then said beleeue in me doth he not manifestly shew that he is God And if in the Spirit of the Sonne we haue confidence in calling vpon the Father how is not Christ then god also after that the Word was made flesh Which he more amplie and cleerely expoundeth in his discourse vpon the exhortation which Christ made to his Disciples before his departure out of this world to pray vnto the Father in his name oftentimes promising to them that they should obtaine whatsoeuer they demanded of his Father in his name He addeth In my name saith S. Cyril to shew that he is the Mediatour and that the Father communicateth his blessings to vs through the Son by whom wee haue accesse to the Father in the Spirit as it is written Therefore hee calleth himselfe the gate and the way because saith he no man commeth vnto the Father but by me For in as much as he is the Son God he giueth vs his blessings with the Father Which S. Paul minding to shew vs said Grace be with you and peace from God our Father and from the Lord Iesus Christ But in so much that he is Mediatour High-priest and Aduocate he presenteth our prayers to God for he alone giueth vs libertie and boldnesse vnto the Father We must then pray in the Sauiours name if wee will be heard of the Father None can be made holy or sanctified by the rule of liuing well but through the helpe and intercession of Christ nor ioyned also to the Father but through his mediation He permitteth vs in no wise to aske any thing from his Father but in his name only and promiseth that his Father will readily grant it vs. And in his fourth booke vpon the Prophet Esay All prayers are directed by Christ for by him we make our demaunds to God his Father and by him we make our prayers confessing also that God is in him And in another place To whom behoueth it better to grant vnto the Saints their desires and to giue them that which they require then to him which only is naturally and verely God The Saints who haue bin sanctified through the communication of God which sanctifieth them may well preserue this gift if so be they keepe his commandements but they cannot sanctifie others For no man sanctified through the communication of the holy Ghost hath the power to communicate this grace to others There is none but the only fountaine of holinesse which of it selfe can giue this holinesse to all The Saints then who haue receiued this gift through grace and through communication cannot distribute it to others at their pleasure but the Sonne who is the fountaine of holinesse sanctifieth his Disciples saying Receiue yee the holy Ghost All which are arguments worthie to be noted whereby Saint Cyril rebuketh the folly of such as forsake the well-spring of liuing waters to search broken cesternes which will containe no water S. Ambrose doth no lesse vpon this subiect in his sermons and discourses For in his Commentaries vpon the Epistle to the Romanes hee mocketh those greatly who in stead of praying personally to God and should not speake to him but in the name of his wel beloued Sonne doe betake themselues to the Saints deported as to his faithfull vassals and familiar friends to approch vnto his diuine Maiestie and to obtaine his grace through their intreatie and intercession He compareth them to the Heathen and Idolaters of whom the Apostle S. Paul speaketh in his first chapter of that said Epistle counting
instructions of those Doctors touching the inuocation of one only God the intercession of one only Mediatour Iesus Christ the leauen of the inuocation of Saints to corrupt the pure serui●e instituted by our Lord Iesus Christ in the Apostolicall Church euen so the successors of these enemies of the ancient puritie perceiuing that the zealous followers thereof made vse of the good bookes of the ancient Fathers to encounter their superstitions haue continued in falsifying more and more their bookes And to make vp the measure of their Fathers being assembled in the Councell of Trent they enioyned some to change cut off and condemne whatsoeuer they should finde and iudge offensiue and contrarie to their errors Vpon which the Iesuits are diligently employed following therein the example of the idolatrous Gentiles who perceiuing as A●nebius complaineth thereof in his third booke that they might be conuicted of falsehood by Ciceroes bookes touching the nature of the Gods formerly published corrupted them and maliciously concealed them that no more mention might be made of them For the Iesuites haue made two Registers imprinted at Naples Madril and Antwerp wherein they haue not only put sundrie words and sentences of the Fathers which expressely they commanded to chaunge and deface out of their bookes but also added certaine annotations to their writings by some great personages to helpe and ease the memorie of the Reader yea without sparing their owne Teachers who haue laboured asmuch to impart vnto vs the true exposition of the Fathers doctrine as they to bereaue and rob vs of it Now to cosen the world they haue intituled these fi●e bookes Indices expurgatorij that is to say Purgatiue Indices or Registers which more aptly may bee tearmed Putrefactiues For so farre off is it that these scullions haue laboured to purge the booke of the ancient Fathers and their expositors from staines and filth that contrariwise they haue defiled them wheresoeuer they laid their clutches on them full of stench and putrifaction I am ashamed to discover their villanies but seeing I haue begun I must proceed at once in manifesting it to them In their Index of Spaine they haue ordained to deface these words of S. Hillaries whereby he declareth the reason why the wise virgins answered the foolish that they could not guie thē of their oyle to wit because none ought to be succored with the works and merits of another In that very Index they command to race out of S. Anselmus booke of the manner of visiting the sicke these words of great consolation Beleeuest thou that thou canst attaine vnto glorie not through thine owne merits but by the vertue and merit of Iesus Christ Beleeuest thou y ● he died for our saluation and that none can be saued through his own merits nor no otherwise then by his death and passion They iudge also in that Index that these words annexed to S. Chrysostoms Register of his bookes ought to be defaced to wit that faith only iustifieth and faith only saueth grounded on certain● sentences of S. Chrysostoms noted in y ● said Register It admonisheth the Reader also to reiect this glosse that There are no more workes in the world to come nor any calling to repentance c. Which was receiued frō the discourse of Epiphanius in his treatise of Heresie 59. Likewise it ordaineth that this proposition be raced out that Prayer be made for the liuing but not for the dead Which was taken from S. Ieromes admonition vpon the third chapter of the Epistle to the Galathians whereupon he noteth this sentence of the Apostle that euery one shall beare his owne burthen Whilest we are in this present world we may succour each other either by prayers or counsels but when wee shall appeare before the iudiciall thron● of Christ neither Iob Dauid nor Noah can pray for vs c. What else haue not the Iesuits commanded in the two Indices of Spaine and the Low-Countries to cut out of the Register added to S. Chrysostoms bookes these words That all the Prophets haue bin married whereby the Reader is sent to that which S. Chrysostome speaketh thereof in his 56. Sermon vpon S. Matthew where he proueth by the examples of Moses Esay and Ezechiel that all the Prophets had wiues and houses In the Low-Countrie Index they condemne the sentences of one of their principall writers called Faber Stapulensis whereby hee maintaineth that S. Ierome and Chrysostome haue taught that inuocation appertaineth to none but vnto God only Also they would haue one to purge the writings of George Cassander touching the naturall exposition of the word merit and of whatsoeuer hee alleageth in his bookes concerning the custome of the Apostles first successors to wit that they haue communicated in the Lords Supper for more then a thousand yeeres vnder the two signes of bread and wine They haue also commanded to race out the annotations of Erasmus of Rotterdam vpon the third chapter of the first Epist. to Timothy and in like maner those of S. Chrysostoms That a Bishop must be the husband of one onely wife Finally as many lines so many corruptions and as many infallable markes of their vngodlinesse and ill consciences For albeit they seek to couer their impietie vnder that false mask the title of purgation yet so it is y ● they do most manife●tly discouer it by the soueraigne authority which they take to themselues in censuring and condemning as Iudges the instructions of their ancestors conformable to the word which God himselfe hath inspired into his Prophets and Apostles And if they had made no doubt of the testimonie of truth which shined in the books of those first lights of the Church they would not haue inforced themselues to quench then so much but might thereby haue been armed to haue defended and preserued themselves On the other part if they had been faithfull keepers of their writings which were put into their hands they would haue altered nothing neither concerning the matter nor the forme thereof but would haue been carefull to haue preserued them in their originall puritie But knowing now that these falsaries haue not kept the treasure committed to their charge but haue mixed among them their lead with the pure gold which they receiued from their ancestors what man is it among vs which will dare to assure himself of the sinceritie of those authors and sentences which they alleage against vs and of the integritie of the interpretations which they recōmend vnto vs and of the truth of those examples which they propound vnto vs And sith I haue quoted so many excellent sentences of the Fathers manifestly contrarie to those which you haue produced in your epistle vnder the name and authoritie of the same Doctors what should we doe in so great a contradiction of those sundrie rules of prayers cited aswell in the one part as on the other as alreadie wee haue vnderstood that there is nothing more
a holy Nation Which words God commandeth Moses and his Prophets continually to repeate vnto the children of Israel So our Lord Iesus Christ also making large promises to his Apostles and in their names to all Christians to abide with them through the communication of the wholesome gifts of his holy spirit euen to the end of the world putteth them oftentimes in minde of this condition If yee loue me if yee keepe my words if yee abide in me if my words abide in you if yee shall keepe my commandements my Father will loue you ye shall be my friends and my Father and I will come vnto you for to make our abiding with you in the Gospell according to S. Iohn chap. 14. vers 14. All these conditionall promises signifie vnto vs euidently that those which are acknowledged for the members of the visible Church may fall either into some fault against the second table as it chanced to Dauid who committed adulterie with Bathsheba the wife of Vriah and sent him to the campe with letters of commaund to Ioab to expose him to the enemies that he might be slaine 2. Sam. 11 or in some error against the first table as happened vnto Aaron the high Priest who formed a golden Calfe for the Israelites to worship Exod. 32. 4. and after that to many Iudges and Kings as to Gedeon Iudg. chap. 8. vers 27. and to Salomon 1. King 11 or into some reuolt from the Christian faith or into some other abuse as appeareth by the fall of S. Peter who trusting too much to himselfe denied his Master thrice and after his repentance and confirmation into his Apostleship was reproued by the Apostle S. Paul in the citie of Antioch because that in constraining the Gentiles to become Ierish as the Apostle speaketh thereof in the second chapter and 14. verse he went not with a right foote to the truth of the Gospell And if those which are in the visible Church cannot fall why doth the Apostle then reproue the Galathians first chapter 6. verse that in forsaking him which had called them by grace that is to say Christ they had transported themselues to another Gospell And in the third chapter and third verse that hauing begun in the spirit they would make an end by the flesh Wherefore hauing pourtraied before the eyes of the Corinthians sundrie faults and transgressions which the Israelites had committed against the Lord in the wildernesse hee addeth that these haue been examples for them to the end to admonish them to stand vpon their gards and that he which thinketh he standeth take heede lest he fall Surely if the Apostolicall Church could not haue failed the Apostle S. Paul had had no reason to haue feared so much lest the Corinthians which he called the members of God and sanctified in Christs Iesus and Saints by calling should be corrupted in their thoughts turning themselues aside from the simplicitie that is in Christ as the Serpent beguiled Eue through his subtiltie 2. Cor. 11. 3. Secondly I answere that you presuppose that which we neuer will grant you to wit that the Clergie and generall Councell which represents the Church cannot erre and that whatsoeuer at any time hath been determined and decreed by the Councels is certaine and ought to be receiued without contradiction To begin then with the Councell of the 4. hundred Prophets of King Ahab I require of you if the assemblie of these Doctors of lies who flattered the said King and counselled him all with with one consent to make warre against the Syrians haue not erred The Historiographer sheweth vs that all of them were possessed with the spirit of error and that onely Michaiah resisted them couragiously and although he was cōdemned smitten and cast into prison that the King notwithstanding would experiment it and that euen with the perill of his life hee was deceiued by the lying spirit of his foure hundred Prophets You Catholikes will also graunt me that the Councell of the chiefe Priests the Scribes and the Elders of the people assembled in the hall of the high Priest called Caiphas erred greatly when they held a Councell and consulted together how they might take Iesus by subtiltie and kill him according as the Euangelist S. Matthew teciteth it in the 26. chapter of his Gospell the third and fourth verses If you suppose that the successors of S. Peter and the other Apostles of our Lord Iesus Christ haue receiued the priuiledge that they could not erre you abuse your selues For the Apostle S. Paul aduertiseth all Christians in his second Epistle to the Thessalonians of an Apostasie and generall reuolt which should come to passe in the Church of the New Testament and declareth to them that this mysterie of iniquitie began to worke in his time and should be reuealed by the comming of the sonne of perdition which exalteth himselfe against God euen to be set as God in the Temple of God bearing himselfe as if he were God Now as this seducement of sinne glided by little and little into the Primitiue Church through the craft and malice of Satan so hath it by many degrees discouered it selfe more and more and one day hath added error to another because in the beginning there was no heede taken to the Councels and assemblies of the ancient Bishops who haue not alwaies followed the true paterne of the wholesome words which 〈◊〉 receiued from the Apostles and from their purer predecessors but giuing eare to the lying and ambitious spirits of their companions which pleased them in their inuentions are gone astray from the truth Euen so the Fathers assembled in the Councels of Neocesarea and Laodicea haue there cōcluded that by the doctrine of the Apostle S. Paul it was permitted to the Christians to take in mariage a second wife but according to reason and the rule of truth it is a kinde of whoredome and for this cause they forbad the Priests not to bee present at the feast of any second wedlocke and enioyned those which were married to their second match to doe penance for the same Whereupon you must needes grant me one of these two things either that the Apostle S. Paul hath erred in that he hath not onely permitted a second marriage in the first Epistle to the Corinthians chap. 7. verses 27. 28. where hee shewes to him that is loosed from a wife that he sinneth not in marrying himselfe againe but giueth counsell also to the widowes in his first Epistle to Timoth. chap. 5. vers 19. saying I will therefore that the younger women marrie and beare children and gouerne the house c. Or that the Bishops of the aforesaid Councels haue erred in that they held the couenant of second wedlocke for an vnlawfull thing and fornication forbidden by God in the seuenth commandement of his law I presuppose that you will grant me rather that there was no error in the instruction of
saith he rauished with all my affection there will I attend with my deuotion There through loue do I take all my delight and thereunto will I hold my selfe by consent Now although this zeale of S. Austin and S. Bernard hath been followed and obserued badly by their successors who since their time gaue too much credit to their owne Councels and humane fantasies yet Gerson neuerthelesle sought to remedie this abuse through his wholesome aduertisements For in his booke of the spirituall life of the soule he sheweth that the sayings of the Apostles and their disciples were of another kinde of authoritie namely in things which purely concerne our faith then the instructions of their successors and consequently that the authoritie of the Primitiue Church is farre greater then that which is at this day and that there is neither Pope nor Councell that can abate any thing of that which was giuen vs by the Euangelists and S. Paul or which hath the like authoritie to make that any thing should bee of faith as some men dreame And in another place vpon this question if in points of faith one might be called before the Pope No particular man saith he not the Pope himselfe neither the Bishops can make a proposition which is hereticall to be catholicall or which is catholicall to be hereticall And againe in the triall of doctrines Consider 5. Tom. 1. That in case of doctrine more credit is to be giuen to one simple lay man excellently skilfull in the Scripture then to the Popes declaration insomuch as it is certaine that one ought to beleeue the Gospell rather then the Pope Also that such a learned man ought to oppose himselfe against a whole Councell if he be there present and seeth the greater partie to be inclined either through malice or ignorance to that which is contrarie to the Gospell according to the example of S. Hilary Whereunto doth agree that which the Abbat Panorma wrote in his chapter intituled Significat extra de Elect. to wit that in things which concerne faith the saying of a priuate person ought to be preferred before the saying of the Pope if so be it is fortified with better reasons out of the old and new Testament Franciscus Picus de Mirandula saith If in a whole Councell the greater partie would ordaine some things which are ●ontrarie to the holy Scriptures and against things that are not lawfull to bee violated the other which are of the lesser number opposing themselues against the greater wee must rather cleaue vnto the lesser number as it happened in the Councels of Rimini and the second of Ephesus Yea euen a simple countriman a childe or an old woman are more worthie to bee beleeued then the Pope and a thousand Bishops if they should speake against the Gospell Now that which wee haue spoken of the authoritie of Councels ought to be appropriated to the censure of our fathers pastors of the ancient Church to wit that wee ought not to receiue their writings with such a reuerence and obedience of faith as wee receiue the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles but to iudge and examine them by the Scriptures according to that good counsell and example of some faithfull Doctors of the Primitiue Church We ought not saith S. Ierome inter cap. 9 on the 98. Psalme to follow the errors of our Fathers but the Scriptures authoritie and the commandements of God which ●nctruct vs. Euery other thing which shall be spoken after the Apostles time ought to bee cut off let it haue no authoritie then though the author thereof be holy or eloquent Reade me those things saith S. Austin in his booke of the Church chap. 6. in the Law in the Prophets in the Psalmes or in the Epistles reade them there and we will beleeue them All others saith he how holy or learned soeuer they be I may reade them not to beleeue what they say is true because they say it but in so much as they proue it by those canonicall authors or by probable reason And in his epistle to Fortunatus We ought not saith he to esteeme of all disputes though they proceed from praise worthie and catholike men as the canonicall Scripture but that in such a sort as is lawfull with the honour due vnto such men to gainsay them or to reiect some things in their writings if per aduenture we finde they iudged otherwise then stands with the truth found out through the helpe of God either by others or by our selues For I am such a one in the writings of other men as I would they should be in mine Doe not stand saith he in his preface of the third booke of the Trinitie vpon my words and writings as vpon the canonical Scripture What soeuer in them thou shalt finde beleeue it without doubting but in my writings that which thou holdest not for very certaine or if thou vnderstādest it not hold it not as firme The like saith he of S. Cyprians bookes in his second booke against Crescon chap. 32. I hold not S. Cyprians bookes for canonicall that which agreeth with the authoritie of holy Scripture I receiue it with his praise but that which agreeth not with them I reiect by his good leaue and we doe him no wrong to make a distinction betweene his writings and the canonicall For this wholesome canon of the Church was not without cause established whereunto were brought certain bookes of the Prophets and Apostles which wee dare not at all iudge and according vnto which we freely iudge of all other bookes either of beleeuers or Infidels The like saith he also of S. Ieroms books of S. Ambroses and of the rest of the Fathers which haue written since the Apostles time in his epistle 112 and 11 booke against Faustus Manichean cap. 5. I would not bring in the opinions of those great personages lest thou shouldest thinke that it behoueth me to follow the iudgement of any man as the authoritie of the Scripture In all their bookes the reader or hearer hath a free iudgement to approue or reiect them without the necessitie of beleeuing them but with freedome to iudge thereof From thence it commeth that hee exhorteth Vincent his friend in his 48. epistle that hee should take heed of gathering against so many holy cleere and vndoubted testimonies some cauils out of the writings of the Bishops whether saith he of our owne or of Hilaries Cyprians or Agrippines for such writings ought to be distinguished from the authoritie of the canon for men reade them not so is it were to draw any testimonie from them contrary to which it should not be lawfull to deeme if peraduenture their opinion were otherwise then the truth requires Wherewith the sentences of our Fathers agree We haue no commandement fr̄o Christ saith Iustine the Martyr in Triph. pag. 207 to beleeue in humane doctrines but in those which his Apostles haue preached and himselfe hath taught Therefore
light of men And the light shined in the darknesse and the darknesse comprehended it not Hitherto saith he 〈◊〉 finde no prayer nor cause nor place of 〈◊〉 But because 〈◊〉 immediatly after he saith And the Word was made flesh and d●●lt among vs thou hast a Godhead to which thou addressest thy prayer and a humanitie which prayeth for thee This was spoken by the Apostle euen since the resurrection of our Lord which sitteth at the right hand of God and soliciteth for vs because he hath vouchsafed to be our Mediatour And what is hee but a Mediatour betweene God and men not betweene the Father and men but betweene God and men What is that God The Father the Son and the holy Ghost What are men Sinners contemners of God and mortall Betweene this same Trinitie and the infirmitie and iniquitie of men was made a Mediatour a man not vniust but neuerthelesse weake to the end that in as much as 〈…〉 hee might ioyne vs to God in that that he was weake he might draw neere to thee and therefore to the intent hee might be a mediatour betweene God and men the Word was made flesh that is to say the Word was made man And vpon this sentence our Lord Iesus Christ saith I am the way the truth● and the life I am saith the Lord the truth and the life wilt thou 〈◊〉 I am the way wilt thou not be deceiued I am the truth wilt thou not die I am the life This thy Sauiour saith Thou hast no where to goe but only to me thou hast none to goe by but by me Goe by Christ man and thou shalt come vnto God● If thou goest to him thou must goe by him seeke not any way by which thou maist come vnto him but by him he was made the way by which thou art to come I say not to thee seek the way he which is the way is come vnto thee Rise thou ●p and walke Walke with manners and not with feete Whosoeuer runneth out of this way and not by him the more hee runneth the more bee stra●eth because he withdraweth himselfe the further out of the way Moreouer vpon the 94. Psalme If thou seekest saith he thy Mediatour to leade ●hee vnto God he is in heauens there prayeth for thee euen as he d●ed for thee in earth being entred into the sanctuary of heauen he only can present the prayers of the people which haue no neere accesse vnto God The same author noteth the words of the Apostle S. Iohn 1. Epistle chap. 2. vers 1. If any man sin we haue an aduocate with the Father Iesus Christ the iust Where this Apostle taketh heed of making himselfe a companion with our aduocate Iesus Christ Surely saith he he was a iust and a great man who dranke out of the Lords bosome the secrets of his mysteries Being notwithstanding such a man he hath not said ye haue an aduocate with the Father but If any man hath sinned we haue an aduocate Neither did he say ye haue nor did he not say ye haue me nor likewise ye haue Christ but he propoundeth Christ and not himselfe and said we haue and not ye haue He chose rather to ranke himselfe in the number of sinners to the end that Christ might be his aduocate then to place himselfe an aduocate in stead of Christ to be accounted among the damnable proud ones Brethrē saith he we haue an aduocate with the Father Iesus Christ the iust he is the propitiation for our sinnes who so holdeth that committeth no heresie nor hath made any schisme or partie For from whence are diuisions come from hence that men say wee are iust we sanctifie the vncleane we iustifie the wicked we pray we obtaine But what said Iohn If any man sinne we haue an aduocate with the Father Iesus Christ the iust Againe in his disputation against Parmenian lib. 2. cap. 2. If the Apostle S. Iohn had said He is the propitiation for your sinner it should haue seemed that hee would haue separated himselfe from sinners as if he had had no need of that propitiation which by the Mediatour is made who sitteth at the right hand of the Father and maketh request for vs. Which if hee had said hee had said it not only proudly but falsely Also if hee had said I haue written to you that yee might not sinne and if any man sinne ye haue me for a Mediatour with the Father and I obtaine the remission of your sins as Parmenian who in some place hath made the Bishop mediatour betweene the people and God what good and faithfull Christians could haue borne it who would haue respected him as the Apostle of Christ and not rather as Antichrist For Christian men saith he recommend one another vnto God through their mutuall prayers but hee which prayeth for all men and for whom none prayeth is the true and only Mediatour And for that his figure was represented to vs in the person of the High-priest of the old Testament it is not found that any should pray for the Priest Likewise S. Paul recommendeth himselfe to the prayers of the faithfull as one of the members of Christ neither doth he make himselfe any mediatour betweene God and the people but hee requireth that all the members of the body of Christ pray for him because that the pray●rs which the members make that yet are labouring on the earth mount vp to the Head which is gone before into heauen in whom is the propitiation for our sinnes Moreouer speaking of the Martyrs and other Saints departed in his Treatise of true Religion he expressely faith that the seruice of the dead ought not to be reckoned among Christians for religion and that wee ought to honour them by way of imitation and not to adore them by way of religion His words are Honorandi sunt propter imitationem non adorandi propter religionem And likewise of the Angels We honor them saith he through charitie and not through seruice And to the intent we might not think that we doe wrong to the Saints departed and Angels or should offend them in addressing or prayers only to God he proueth by certaine places of holy Scripture that neither the Angels nor the Saints deceased at any time heretofore or now would be worshipped of vs but that they rather call vs backe to our Creator desiring that wee should worship with them the same and one only God through whose contemplation they are blessed Heare ●aith Saint Austin on the 96. Psalme the Angel of the Lord and the instructor of the Apostle S. Iohn who fell down before him to haue worshipped him at it is written in the 19. chapter and 10. verse of the Reuelation This Angel which sought not but the glorie of his Lord said to him Arise what doest thou worship God I am thy fellow seruant and one of thy brethren What then my brethren let no man say