Beza our maister pronounce it to be the very beste This toucheth me somewhat for in the margent is noted Discouerie of the Rocke pag. 147. where in deede speaking of the Hebrew text of the olde Testament and the Greeke of the newe the Greeke translation of the Septuaginta and the common Latine translation I saye the Tridentine Councell alloweth none for authenticall but the common Latine translation that is the worst of all Now what sayth Beza contrary to this speaking of the diuerse Latine translations of the new Testament onely he sayth of the vulgar Latine that he followeth it for the most part preferreth it before all the rest maxima ex parte amplector caeteris omnibus antepono So that I speake of the whole Bible Beza of the new Testament only I speake of the vulgar Latine text in comparison of the originall Hebrew and Greeke and the Septuagintaes translation Beza of the Latine translation of the new Testament in comparison of all other Latine translations that were before him as Erasmus Castallion and such like According to your olde maner therefore you rehearse out of my writings either falsifying the words or peruerting the meaning These things considered you haue no cause to accuse vs of partialitie and inconstancie for following or leauing your Latine text which we neuer did but vpon good ground and reason sufficient MART. 9. So that a blind man may see you frame your translations to bolster your errours and heresies without all respect of following sincerely either the Greeke or the Latine But for the Latine no maruell the Greeke at the least why doe you not follow Is it the Greeke that induceth you to say ordinances for traditions traditions for decrees ordinances for iustifications Elder for Priest graue for hell image for idoll tell vs before God and in your conscience whether it be because you will exactly follow the Greeke nay tell vs truly and shame the diuell whether the Greeke words doe not sound and signifie most properly that which you of purpose will not translate for disaduantaging your heresies And first let vs see concerning the question of Images FVLK 9. A blind man may see that you cauill and slaunder quarrell and raile without respect either of cōscience towards God or honestie toward the world in so much that most commonly you forget the credit of your owne vulgar Latine translation so you may haue a colour to find fault with ours And yet againe you aske whether it be the Greeke which induceth vs to say for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordinances and for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 traditions c. I tell you the Greeke alloweth vs so to say which is sufficient when other godly causes moue vs beside so to translate Is it the Latine that induceth you to say for an vsurer a creditor for a stable an Inne for what was done what was chaunced for fastening to crucifying for be you saued saue your selues for creature creation for confessed promised for a boate a shippe for a shippe a boate for singing piping for hay grasse for refection refectorie for foolishnes madnes for an image an idoll c. I blame not all these as false translations yet euery man may see they are neither vsuall nor proper yet as for some of these though not for all I know you may giue good reason so may we for any shew of alteration or departing from the vsuall signification of the Greeke word that you are able to alledge against vs. CHAP. III. Hereticall translation against sacred IMAGES Martin I Beseech you what is the next and readiest and most proper English of Idolum idololatra idololatria is it not Idol Idolater idolatrie are not these plaine English wordes and well knowen in our languag◠Why sought you further for other termes and wordes if you had meant faithfully What needed that circumstance of three words for one worshipper of images and worshipping of images whether I pray you is the more naturall and conuenient speeche either in our English tongue or for the truth of the thing to say as the holy Scripture doth Couetousnes is idolatrie consequently The couetous man is an idolater or as you translate Couetousnes is worshipping of Images and The couetous man is a worshipper of images Fulke IF you aske for the readiest and moste proper English of these wordes I must needes answere you an image a worshipper of images and worshipping of images as we haue sometimes translated The other that you would haue Idoll Idolater and Idolatrie be rather Greekish than English wordes which though they be vsed of many English men yet are they not vnderstoode of all as the other be And therefore I say the more naturall and conuenient speech for our English tongue as conuenient for the truth of the thing it is to say couetousnesse is the worshipping of images and the couetous man is a worshipper of images as to say couetousnesse is idolatrie and the couetous man is an idolater as I haue proued before Seeing Idolum by your owne interpreter is called simulachrum and simulachrum signifieth as much as imago an image Cap. 1. numb 5. MART. 2. We say commonly in Englishe Suche a riche man maketh his money his God and the Apostle sayth in like maner of some Whose belly is their God Phil. 3. and generally euerie creature is our idol when we esteeme it so exceedingly that we make it our God But who euer heard in English that our money or bellie were our images that by esteeming of them too much we become worshippers of images Among your selues are there not some euen of your Superintendentes of whom the Apostle speaketh that make an idol of their money and bellie by couetousnesse and bellie cheere Yet can we not call you therefore in any true sense worshippers of images nether would you abide it You see then that there is a great differēce betwixt idol and image idolatrie worshipping of images and euen so great difference is there betwixt S. Paules wordes and your translation FVLK 2. Before you can shewe that absurditie of this translation a couetous man is a worshipper of images you must defende your owne vulgar Latine translation which calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 simulachrorum seruitus which I haue proued to signifie the seruing or worshipping of images cap. 1. nu 5. Now to our English phrase a riche man maketh his money his God a glutton his bellie and so of other creatures honoured aboue measure I say the worshipping of images may be after two sortes either when they are worshipped as gods as among the grosser sort of the Gentils Papistes then it is against the first commaundement Thou shalt haue none other gods but me or else when men pretende to worshippe God by them as the Israelites did in the calfe
saye it is examined and tryed by the Scriptures And the Scriptures them selues where they are so obscure that neither by cōmon sense knowledge of the original tongue Grammer Rhetorike Logike storye nor any other humane knowledge nor iudgement of any writers olde or new the certaine vnderstanding can be found out they are either expounded by conference of other plainer textes of Scripture according to the analogie of faith or els they remaine stil in obscuritie vntill it shall please God to reueile a more cleere knowledge of thē But none so like the familie of loue as you Papists are which reiect councels fathers interpretation of the most auncient Catholike Church yea manifest Scripture it self except it be agreable to the iudgement of your P. M. Pontifex Max. the Pope as those familiar diuels submit all things to the sentence authoritie of their H. N. Shame you nothing therefore to quote Whitaker pag. 17. 120. as though he affirmed that we our selues will be iudges both of Councels Fathers whether they expound the Scriptures well or no because he writeth percase that we ought to examine al mens writings by the word of god Doth the Apostle make euery man iudge of all thinges when he willeth euery man to examine all things and to hold that which is good If any youth vpon confidence of his wit or knowledge presume too much in diuine matters we count it rashnesse But that any youth among vs vpon confidence of his spirit will saucily controwle all the fathers cōsenting togither against his fantasie except it be some Schismatike or Heretike that is cast out from amongest vs I doe vtterly denye neither are you able to proue it of any that is allowed among vs. MART. 15. Wherevpon it riseth that one of them defendeth this as very wel said of Luther That he esteemed not the worth of a rushe a thousande Augustines Cyprians Churches against him selfe And an other very finely figuratiuely as he thought against the holy Doctor Martyr S. Cyprian affirming that the Church of Rome can not erre in faith saith thus Pardon me Cyprian I woulde gladly beleue thee but that beleeuing thee I should not beleeue the Gospell This is that which S. Augustine saith of the like men dulcissimè vanos esse non peritos sed perituros nec tam disertos in errore quà m desertos à veritate And I thinke verily that not onely we but the wiser men among them selues smile at such eloquence or pitie it saying this or the like most truly Prodierunt oratores noui stulti adolescentuli FVLK 15. Why shoulde you not at your pleasure vpon your false assumption generall inferre one or two slaunders particular M. Whitaker defendeth that it was well said of Luther That he esteemed not the worth of a rush a thousand Augustines Cyprians Churches against himselfe Woulde God that euery Papist would reade his owne words in the place by you quoted that he might see your impudent forgerie For I hope there is no Christian that will imagine that either Luther would so speake or any man of honestie defend him so speaking For Luther was not so senselesse to oppose his owne person but the truth of his cause grounded vpon the holy Scriptures not only against one thousand of men holding the contrary but euen against tenne thousand of Angels if they should oppose them selues against the truth of God But I am too blame to deale so much in M. Whitakers cause who ere it be long will displaye the falshoode of Gregorie Martin in a Latine writing to his great ignominie The next cauil is vpon M. Rainoldes words in his preface to his sixe positions disputed vpon at Oxford where against Cyprian affirming that the Church of Rome can not erre in faith he sayth Pardon me Cyprian I would gladly beleeue thee but that in beleeuing thee I shoulde not beleeue the Gospel These wordes you confesse that he spake figuratiuely and finely as he thought but that he vsed the figures of Ironve and concession you will not acknowledge but all other men may easily see For first he no where graunteth that S. Cyprian affirmeth that the Churche of Rome can not erie in fayth But immediatly before the wordes by you translated after he had proued out of the eleuēth to the Romans that the particular Church of Rome may be cut of as well as the Church of the Israelites which were the naturall braunches he asketh the question Quid Cypriano secus est visum What And did it seeme otherwise to Cyprian Pardon me Cyprian c. His meaning is plaine that Cyprian thought not otherwise than S. Paule hath written or if he did it was lawfull to dissent from Cyprian As a litle after he sayth Quare si Romanam Ecclesiam errare non posse c. Wherefore if Cyprian thought that the Church of Rome could not erre in that point by the sentence of the Papistes he him selfe is to be condemned of errour for diuerse Papistes whome he nameth confesse that euery particular Church may erre and Verratus one of them affirmeth that the Church of Rome is a particular Church which the rest can not deny And in deede that which Cyprian writeth is about certaine runneagate Heretikes that flying out of the Church of Carthage sought to be receiued of the particular Church of Rome All this while here is no graunt that Cyprian affirmeth that the Church of Rome cannot erre in faith And if Cyprian had so affirmed contrary to the scripture it might haue bene iustly replied vnto him which S. Augustine saith when he was pressed with his authoritie Contra Crescon lib. 2. cap. 31. Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam We do Cyprian no wrong when we distinguish any writings of his from the Canonical authoritie of the diuine Scriptures And in truth the wordes which M. Rainolds before cited out of S. Cyprian lib. 1. ep 3. ad Cornel. are spoken of no matter of faith but in a matter of discipline Neither doth Cyprian say that the Church of Rome can not erre in faith but that those Heretikes which brought letters from schismatikes profane persons did not consider that they are Romans whose faith is praised by the cōmendation or preaching of the Apostle to whom perfidia falshood or false dealing can haue none accesse Meaning that the Romans so long as they cōtinue in that faith which was praised by the Apostle cā not ioyne with Heretikes and Schismatikes that are cast out of other Catholike Churches For that he could not meane that the Pope or Church of Rome cannot erre in faith as the Papistes affirme it is manifest for that in a question of religion he dissented both from the Bishop and Church of Rome as all learned men knowe he did which he would neuer haue done if he had beleeued they could not erre And that his meaning was not that the Bishop of Rome could not erre in matters of
vnderstanding of the Scriptures But let vs see what be the absurdities that you gather of our defending the originall texts of both the tongues First we must needes reiect the Greeke of the olde Testament called septuaginta as false because it differeth frō the Hebrew Where it is not onely different in wordes but also contrary in sense Why should we not but if it reteine the sense and substance although it expresse not the same wordes we neede not reiect it S. Hierom who was required by Paula and Eustochium to expounde the Prophetes not onely according to the truth of the Hebrew but also after the translation of the Septuaginta whereof he diuerse tymes complayneth vppon the first of Nahum sayth expresly that it was against his conscience alwaies to follow the same Ignoscite prolixitati c. Pardon me that I am so long For I can not following both the storie and the tropologie or doctrine of maners comprehend both briefly most of all seeing that I am so greatlye tormented or troubled with the varietie of the translation and against my conscience sometimes I am compelled to frame a consequence of the vulgar edition which was the Septuaginta This was Sainct Hieroms opinion of the Septuagintaes translation But vpon reiection of that translation say you it followeth that wheresoeuer those places so disagreeing from the Hebrue are cited by Christ or the Euangelistes and Apostles there also they must be reiected because they disagree from the Hebrue and so the Greeke text of the newe Testament is not true and consequentlye the wordes of our Sauiour and writinges of his Apostles speaking according to the Septuaginta must at leaste bee reformed It is an olde saying and a true that one inconuenience being graunted manye doe followe and so you may heape vp an hundred after this manner But for aunswere I say that neyther our Sauiour nor his Apostles citing any place out of the olde Testament doe bring any thing disagreeing in sense and substance of matter the purpose for which they alleage it considered from the truth of the Hebrue text Therefore there is no neede that the 70. in those places should be reiected Althogh our Sauiour Christ speaking in the Syrian tōgue is not to be thoght euer to haue cited the text of the 70. which is in Greeke And his Apostles and Euangelists vsing that text regard the substance of the sentence not the forme of words For many times they cite not the very wordes of the Greeke 70. neither S. Hierom in Catalogo script Eccles. which is set as a Preface to S. Mathewes Gospell telleth you expresly that in the Hebrew example of S. Mathew which he had wheresoeuer the Euangelist S. Mathew either in his owne person or in the person of our Lorde and Sauiour vseth the testimonies of the olde Testament he followeth not the authoritie of the 70. translators but the Hebrew of which these are two places Out of Egypt haue I called my sonne And he shall be called a Nazarite See you not what a perilous perplexitie we are are in by defending both the Hebrue text of the olde Testament and the Geeke of the Newe when neither are contrarie to the other MART. 21. All which must needes followe if this be a good cōsequence I find it not in Moises nor in the Hebrue therefore I strooke it out as Beza doth and saith concerning the foresaid words Qui fuit Cainan This consequence therefore let vs see how they will iustifie and withall let them tell vs whether they will discredit the newe Testament because of the Septuaginta or credit the Septuaginta because of the new Testament or how they can credit one and discredit the other where both agree and consent togither or whether they will discredit both for credit of the Hebrue or rather whether there be not some other way to reconcile both Hebrue Greeke better than Bezaes impudent presumption Which if they will not maintaine let them flatly cōfesse that he did wickedly not as they doe defend euery word and deede of their maisters be it neuer so hainous or salue it at the least FVLK 21. No whit of that doth followe by striking out qui fuit Cainan Because it is not foūd in Moises therfore we haue nothing to do to iustifie your vaine consequence grounded vpon an absurdity of your owne deuising But we must tell you whether we will discredite the new Testament because of the Septuaginta no not for a thousand millions of Septuagintaes nor for all the worlde will we credite the Septuaginta against the truth of the old Testament But what soeuer is cited out of the 70. in the new is not contrarie to the Hebrew in the old and therefore the way of reconciliation is easily found without discrediting both or either of both in those places And in this place which is a meere corruption borrowed out of the corruption of the Septuagintaes or a Iudaical additiō Gen. 11. I think there is no better way of reconciling than to strike it cleane out as Beza hath done whiche generation neither is in the Hebrew veritie nor in your owne vulgar Latin translation either Gen. 11. or 1. Par. 1. Beside that it maketh a foule errour in the computation of time adding no lesse than 230. yeares betweene Arphaxad and Sala more than the Hebrew veritie or the vulgar Latin agreeing therewith doth number And therefore he was more presumptuous that out of the corrupt and false text of the Septuaginta added the same vnto the Genealogie in S. Luke than Beza which by the authoritie of Moses remoued the same If you will still persist to defende the authoritie of the Septuaginta against the Hebrew veritie which like an Atheist you deride at leastwise defende your owne vulgar Latine translation of the old Testament and deliuer your selfe out of that perplexitie in which you would place vs betweene the Hebrew of the old and the Greeke of the new Testament Seing no lesse doubts intangleth you betweene the Latine of the new and the Latine of the olde differing altogither a like as the Greeke and the Hebrew do MART. 22. Alas how farre are these men from the modestie of the auncient fathers and from the humble spirite of obedient Catholikes who seeke all other meanes to resolue difficulties rather than to do violence to the sacred Scripture and when they finde no way they leaue it to God S. Augustine concerning the difference of the Hebrue the Greeke saith often to this effect that it pleased the holy Ghost to vtter by the one that which he would not vtter by the other And S. Ambrose thus Wee haue founde many thinges not idly added of the 70. Greeke interpreters S. Hierom though an earnest patrone of the Hebrue not without cause beyng at that time perhaps the Hebrue veritie in deede yet giueth many reasons for the differences of the Septuaginta and concerning the foresaide places of S.
in Tullie of whom one sayd that he maruailed if when they mette togither one of them did not smile vppon another because they deluded the cittie got themselues much honour with such vaine superstitions So you beyng newly become subtill and partial translaters thinke other men to be like your selfes But euen as the head of your Church once iested with his Cardinall how great wealth honour that fable of Christ so the beast called the Christian religion had brought them euen so you his lewde limmes make sporte among your selfe of the holy worde of God which you haue corrupted somewhat with your blinde translatioÌ„s but much more with your hereticall Annotations So said your great friend Campion in open audience that he could make as good sport vpon the incarnation of Christ. According to your owne affection therefore you iudge of vs and not according to the truth as the day will trie when the secretes of all hartes shall be made manifest MART. 31. Fifthly that the very vse and affectation of certaine termes and auoiding other some though it be no demonstration against them but that they may seeme to defend it for true translation yet was it necessarie to be noted because it is and hath bene alwayes a token of hereticall meaning FVLK 31. When our translation is true I doubt not but we shall defende the vse of some termes and the auoiding of other some by as good reason as you shall defende the like in your translations especially where you affect new termes vnused or not vnderstoode and auoide common and vsuall termes of the same signification as Euangelizing for preaching the Gospel adueÌ„t of Christ for the coÌ„ming of Christ scandalizing for offending scandale for offense c. Which if it be as you say alwayes a token of hereticall meaning first plucke your selfe by the nose and then see if we can not defend our doings MART. 32. Sixtly that in explicating these things we haue endeuoured to auoide as much as was possible the tediousnesse of Greeke and Hebrue wordes which are only for the learned in these tongues and which made some litle doubt whether this matter which of necessity must be examined by them were to be written in Englishe or no. But being perswaded by those who them selues haue no skill in the sayd tongues that euerie reader might reape commoditie thereby to the vnderstanding and detesting of such false Hereticall translations it was thought good to make it vulgar and common to all our deere countrie men as the newe Testament it selfe is common whereof this Discouerie is as it were a handmaide attending therevpon for the larger explication and proofe of corruptions there brieâ—ly touched and for supply of other some not there mentioned FVLK 32. He that seeth your margent painted with Greeke and Hebrewe wordes in so many places may guesse whether it were possible for you to haue auoided the tediousnesse of them when in diuerse places the Greeke and Hebrew wordes are set without all neede of them and sometimes where there is no controuersie about them as in the 5. section of this Preface where you shew the corruptions of the Arrians and Pelagians and in the 19 section where you would shew the difference of the new Testament from the olde in citing of testimonies But the Hebrewe word in the Psalme 21. or 22. which you falsly say signifieth no such thing as pearcing you set not downe lest your falshood by them that haue skill might be conuinced And if you had cared as much to finde out the truth as to shewe your skill in both the tongues you would haue written in Latine especially against Beza which neuer wrote in English And vaine it is that you pretend to make the matter common to your deare countrimen that be vnlearned for the iudgement muste reste in them that haue knowledge in the tongues albeit you had written in Latine It is all one therefore to the vnlearned as if you had onely said there are many faults or corruptions which in a Latine booke shall be discouered to the iudgement of the learned seeing the ignorant can not vnderstand your demoÌ„stratioÌ„s MART. 33. Seuenthly that all the English corruptions here noted and refuted are either in all or some of their English Bibles printed in these yeares 1562. 1577. 1579. And if the corruption be in one Bible not in an other commonly the sayd Bible or Bibles are noted in the margent if not yet sure it is that it is in one of them and so the Reader shall find it if he find it not alwaies in his owne Bible And in this case the Reader must be very wise and circumspect that he thinke not by and by we charge them falsly because they can shew him some later edition that hath it not so as we say For it is their common and knowen fashion not onely in their translations of the Bible but in their other bookes and writings to alter and change adde put out in their later editions according as either them selues are ashamed of the former or their scholers that print them againe dissent and disagree from their Maisters So hath Luthers Caluins and Bezaes writings and translations bene changed both by them selues and their scholers in many places so that Catholike men when they confute that which they find euident faults in this or that edition feare nothing more than that the Reader hath some other edition where they are corrected for very shame and so may conceiue that there is no such thing but that they are accused wrongfully For example Call to minde the late pretended conference in the Tower where that matter was denied and faced out for Luthers credit by some one booke or edition of his which them selues and all the world knoweth was most truly layd to his charge FVLK 33. First this is vntrue for some you haue noted in the new Testament printed 1580. Secondly it is vncertaine for two of these translations might be printed in one yeare and so I thinke they were Therefore I know not well which you meane but I guesse that the Bible 1562. is that which was of Doctor Couerdales translation most vsed in the Church seruice in King Edwards time The Bible 1577. I take to be that which being reuised by diuerse Bishops was first printed in the large volume and authorized for the Churches about tenne or twelue yeares agoe That of 1579. I knowe not what translation it be except it be the same that was first printed at Geneua in the beginning of the Queenes Maiesties Raigne And this coniecture as the fittest I can make I must followe seeing your note of distinction is as good as that fond fellowes that would know his maisters horse by the bridle But it is a common and knowen fashion you say vsed of vs that not onely in translations but in other bookes and writings of ours we alter and change adde and put to in our later editions And who vseth not
was my saying and I repeat it againe with as great confidence as before yea and with much greater too forasmuch as all the Papistes in the Seminarie hauing now beaten their heades togither to find out shameles translations and wilful corruptions of purpose to maintaine heresies can find nothing but olde friuolous quarrels answered long before or new trifling cauils not worthy in deede of any learned mans answer but for satisfying of the simple and ignoraunt Howe this my saying differeth from your slaunderous reporte I trust euery reasonable Papist that will take paines to conferre them togither will be enforced to acknowledge For where I say shamelesse translations and wilfull corruptions as Howlet chargeth vs you reporte me to saye mistranslated although in playne wordes I did confesse that there might be some errours euen in the best and perfectest of our translations For to translate out of one tongue into an other is a matter of greater difficultie than it is commonly taken I meane exactly to yeeld as much and no more than the originall containeth when the wordes and phrases are so different that fewe are found which in all pointes signifie the same thing neither more nor lesse in diuers tongues Wherefore notwithstanding any translation that can be made the knowledge of the tongues is necessary in the Church for the perfect discussing of the â—ense and meaning of the holy Scriptures Now if some of our translators or they all haue not attained to the best and most proper expressing of the nature of all wordes and phrases of the Hebrew and Greeke tongues in English it is not the matter that I will stande to defende nor the translators them selues I am well assured if they were all liuing But that the Scriptures are not impudently falsified or willfully corrupted by them to mayntayne anie hereticall opinion as the aduersarie chargeth vs that is the thing that I will by Gods grace stande to defende against all the Papistes in the worlde And this ende you haue falsely and fraudulently omitted in reporting my saying wherevppon dependeth the chiefe yea the whole matter of my assertion You plaiâ— manifestly with vs the lewde parte of Procustes the theeuâ—sh hoste whiche woulde make his guestes stature equall with his beddes eyther by stretching them out if they were too short or by cutting off their legges if they were too long So if our sayings be too short for your purpose you straine them to be longer if they be too long you cut of their shankes yea that which is worse the very head as you play with me in this place I my selfe and so did many hundreds beside me heare that reuerend father M. Doctor Couerdale of holy and learned memorie in a sermon at Paules crosse vpon occasion of some slaunderous reportes that then were raysed againste his translation declare his faithfull purpose in doing the same which after it was finished and presented to King Henry the eight of famous memorie and by him committed to diuerse bishops of that time to pervse of which as I remember Steuen Gardiner was one after they had kept it long in their handes and the King was diuerse times sued vnto for the publication thereof at the last being called for by the King him selfe they redeliuered the booke and being demaunded by the King what was their iudgement of the translation they aunswered that there were many faultes therein Well said the King but are there anye heresies maintayned thereby They answered there was no heresies that they could finde maintained thereby If there be no heresies sayd the King then in Gods name let it goe abroad among our people According to this iudgement of the King and the Bishops M. Couerdale defended his translation confessing that he did now him selfe espie some faultes which if he might reuiew it once ouer againe as he had done twise before he doubted not but to amend but for any heresie he was sure there was none maintained by his translation After the same maner I doubt not by Gods helpe so to defende all our translations for all your euident markes to know wilful corruptions that not one shal bee founde of purpose to maintaine any hereticall opinion and not many errours committed through negligence ignorance or humaine frailtie MARTIN 2. The first marke and most generall is If they translate elsewhere not amisse and in places of controuersie betwene them and vs most falsely it is an euident argument that they doe it not of negligence or ignoraunce but of partialitie to the matter in controuersie This is to be seene through the whole Byble where the faultes of their translations are altogither or specially in those Scriptures that concerne the causes inquestion betwene vs. For other small faultes or rather ouersights we will no further note vnto them than to the ende that they may the more easily pardon vs the like if they finde them FVLKE 2. This marke is too generall to knowe any thing thereby when you doe exemplifie it in speciall you shall easily be answered in the meane time it is sufficient to deny generally that wherwith you so generally charge vs that we haue in places of controuersie translated any thing falsely If one worde be otherwise translated in any place of controuersie than it is in other places out of controuersie there may be rendred sufficient reason of that varietie without that it must needes come of parcialitie to the matter in controuersie but rather of loue of the truth which in all matters of question betwene vs is confirmed by plaine text of Scriptures or necessary collection out of the same so that if the translation in those places were the same that yours is of the newe Testament it should neither hinder our truth nor fortifie your errour As for small faultes and ouersightes reason it is as you say they should be pardoned on both sides MART. 3. If as in their opinions and heresies they forsake the auncient fathers so also in their translations they goe from that text and auncient reading of holy Scriptures which all the fathers vsed and expounded is it not plaine that their translation followeth the veine and humor of their heresie And againe if they that so abhorre from the auncient expositions of the fathers yet if it seeme to serue for them sticke not to make the exposition of any one Doctor the very text of holy Scripture what is this but hereticall wilfulnesse See this 1. chap. num 43. chap. 10. num 1. 2. chap. 18. num 10. 11. and chap 19. num 1. FVL. 3. We neuer goe from that text and auncient reading which all the fathers vsed expouÌ„ded but we translate that most vsual text which was first printed out of the most auncient copies that could be found And if any be since found or if any of the auncient fathers did reade otherwise than the vsual copies in any word that is any way material in annotation commeÌ„taries readings sermons we spare not to declare
what is that I pray you Not wine you wil say I am sure but the bloud of Christ. If you so resolue it then followeth that vaine nugation which I haue noted against Saunder This bloud in the cuppe which bloud is shed for you is the new Testament in my bloud Is that bloud in the cuppe diuerse from that bloud in which the new Testament is confirmed If it be the same how often was â—t shed If it were shed in the cuppe how holdeth your vnbloudie sacrifice Or howe can you saye that it was shed in the cup where by your rule of concomitans it is not separated from the body as it was in his passion If it were not separated as certainly his bloud was not separated from his bodye in the supper howe can that which was in the cup be his bloud that was shed for vs for the word of shedding signifieth separation Wherefore it can not be referred to that in the cup but to his bloud which was shed on the crosse for vs so that there is a manifest enallage or change of the temps The present being put for the future as it is manifest by the other Euangelists where the word of shedding can be referred to nothing els but to his bloud shedde vpon the crosse wherfore the Greeke text can here resolue you of no ambiguity as in the place you cite act 14. Neither was there euer any auncient writer that stumbled vpon this ambiguitie but al with one consent referre the word of shedding to his bloud and not to the cuppe or the content thereof so many as speake of it MART. 40. And this is one commoditie among others that we reape of the Greeke text to resolue the ambiguitie that is sometime in the Latine whereas you neyther admit the one nor the other but as you list neither doth the Greeke satisfie you be it neuer so plaine and infallible but you will deuise that it is corrupted that there is a soloecisine that the same soloecisme is an elegancie and there vpon you translate your owne deuise and not the worde of God Which whence can it proceede but of most wilfull corruption See chap. 17. nu 10 11. 12. FVLK 40. This is nothing but generall rayling impudent slaundering as in the particular sections before is proued For we neither deuise that the text is corrupted to alter any thing of the text no not where it is vndoubtedly corrupted as in the name of Ieremie Math. 27. Neyther deuise wee a Soloecisme when wee admonish that there is a Soloecophanes which of no Papist that euer I heard of was before obserued Neither make we a Soloecisme to be an elegancie when we say against them that confound a Soloecisme with Soloecophanes that Soloecophanes is a figure vsed sometimes of most eloquent writers neither is it streight way a vertue or elegancie of speache what so euer eloquent writers sometimes haue vsed wherefore we translate nothing of our owne deuise but we translate the worde of God without any wilfull corruption MART. 41. If in ambiguous Hebrue woords of doubtfull signification where the Greeke giueth one certaine sense you refuse the Greeke and take your aduantage of the other sense what is this but wilfull partialitie so you doe in Redime eleemosynis peccata tua Dan. 4. and Inclinaui cor meum ad faciendas iustificationes tuas propter retributionem and Nimis honorati sunt amici tui Deus c. and yet at an other time you folow the determination of the Greeke for an other aduantage as Psal. 98. Adore his footestoole because he is holy Whereas in the Hebrue it may be as in our Latin because it is holy See chapt 13. num 18. chapt 9. num 23 24. chapt 18. num 1. 2. So you flee from the Hebrue to the Greâ—ke and from this to that againe from both to the vulgar Latine as is shewed in other places and as S. Augustine saith to Faustus the Manichee You are the râ—le of truth whatsoeuer is for you is true whatsoeuer is against you is not true FVLK 41. If Hebrue wordes be ambiguous wee take that sense whiche agreeth with other places that are playne and with out all ambiguitie and this is no partialitie but wisedome and loue of the truthe not to grounde any newe doctrine vppon suche places onely where the Hebrue worde is ambiguous and may haue diuerse significations As you do the redemption of sinnes by almesse vpon that place of Daniel 4. Where you confesse that the Hebrue worde is ambiguous are not able to bring any one plain text for it where the wordes are not ambiguous But wee ground our refusal vpon a hundred plaine textes that acribe the whole glorie of our raunsome redemption froÌ„ sinnes to the onely mercy of God But as well this text as the other two that you cite in the chapters by you quoted shall be throughly diseussed to see if you can haue any aduauÌ„tage at our translators of the same But on the coÌ„trarie side you say that at an other time we follow the determination of the Greeke for an other aduantage as in that texte Psalm 89. Adore his foote stoole because he is holy whereas in the Hebrue it may be as in your Latine because it is holy I answer that we follow not the determination of the Greeke as moued by the onely authoritie thereof for any aduantage but because wee learne our interpretation out of the verie Psalme it selfe For whereas the Prophet in the 5. verse hath sayed Exalt â—e the Lorde our God and worshippe at the foote stoole of his feete for he is holy in the laste verse of the same he repeateth againe the like exhortation Exalt ye the Lorde our God and worshippe him in his holy hill for the Lorde our God is holy In this verse for his foote stoole he placeth the holy hill which expresseth where his foote stoole was namely the holy Aâ—ke and for Cadhosh hu holy is he now he sayeth Cadosh Iâ—houa holy is the Lorde our God which putteth the other verse out of ambiguitie Wherefore if wee take testimonie of the Greeke we flie not to the Greeke from the Hebrue but shewe that the Hebrue may so bee vnderstoode hauing other more certaine arguments than the testimonie of the Greeke Againe it is vtterly false that you saie we flie from both Hebrue and Greeke to the Latine for wee neuer flie from the Hebrue but acknowledge it as the fountaine and spring from whence wee must receyue the infallible truth of Gods worde of the olde Testament following the Latine or Greeke so farre as they followe the truth of the Hebrue texte and no farther As for the saying of S. Augustine to Faustâ—s the Manichee You are the rule of truth doth moste aptly agree to you Papistes and to your Pope for you will not aforde vnto the Scriptures them selues any authoritie or certaintie of truth but vpon your approbation and interpretation
coynes on which was stamped the figure of Dianaes temple more like to your Popish shrines than to the temple of God Where idols are translated deuotions I knowe not except you meane Act. 17. v. 23. where the worde is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which your vulgar Latine translatour 2. Thess. 2. calleth quod colitur that which is deuoutly worshipped so the worde signifieth whatsoeuer is religiously worshipped or adored and not idols as you say nor simulachra images as your translatour calleth them Act. 17. For it is deriued of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth to adore to worship to honour deuoutly or religiously Euerie humane creature signifieth in that place 1. Pet. 2. euerie magistrate of what creation or ordination soeuer he bee and so is meant by that translation all ordinaunces of men not all lawes of men which yet were not impious if you adde the restraint for the Lorde for whome nothing can be that is against his lawe The rest of your quarrels bee all aunswered before MART. 46. What caused these straunge speeches in their Englishe Bibles Thou shalt not leaue my soule in the graue Thou hast deliuered my soule from the lowest graue A couetous maÌ„ is a worshipper of images By laying on of the hands of the Eldership Haile freely beloued SINNE lieth at the dore and thou shalt rule ouer HIM Breake of thy sinnes with righteousnesse for Redeeme with almes Ielousie is cruell as the graue for as hell Cant. Cant. 8. Bib. an 1579. The griefes of the graue caught me Psalm 116. And God will redeeme my soule from the power of the graue O graue I will be thy destruction Os. 13. and such like what made Caluine so translate into Latine that if you turne it into English the sense is that God powred water vpon vs aboundantly meaning the holy Ghost what else but because he would take away the necessitie of materiall water in Baptisme as in his commentarie and Bezaes it is euident FVLK 46. These speaches are not straunge in Gods Church howe soeuer they sound in your eares So many of them as translate for Sheol the graue haue their answeres sect 32. and chap. 7. which is appointed for that question The couetous man a worshipper of images sect 5. of this chapter and chap. 3. numb 12. The laying â—â— of hands of the Eldership is warranted by the signification of the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth a companie of Elders as it is translated by your owne vulgar Latine interpreter Luk 22. vers 66. Senioreâ— plebis The Elders of the people and Act. 22. v. 5. he calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Omnes maiores natu And for a consistorie of Elders is the worde Presbyterium vsed in Latine by Cyprian lib. 3. epist. 11. and lib. 2. epist. 8. 10. Of haile freely beloued we spake lately sect 43. Of the text Gen. 4. v. 7. sinne lieth at the dore c. sect 28. and chap. 10. sect 9. of Dan. 4. breake for redeeme thy sinnes sect 41. If Caluine Tit. 3. did wrongly interprete that which is spoken of water to be ment of the holie Ghost what is that to our translation But certaine it is that Caluine neuer meant to take away the necessitie of materiall water from the sacrament of baptisme although he taught that the want of the externall sacrament where it cannot be had doth not depriue gods electe from eternal saluation neither hath Beza anye other meaning in his annotation MART. 47. I hadde meant to haue but briefly skimmed ouer these things but multitude of matter maketh me too long as it chaunceth to a manne that wadeth thoroughe myrie and foule places and yet the greatest demonstration that they are wilfull corrupters is behinde whiche onelye I will adde and for the reste referre the reader to the whole booke FVLK 47. It is a smal signe that multitude of matter is cause of your length when you repeate one matter in so manye sections your similitude of a manne wading in foule and myrie places doth well agree vnto you for you haue beene all this while wading in the puddle of youre slaunders misprisions and false and false accusations in which you haue so berayed your selfe as you shall not easily purge your selfe from the myre of them But because you say the greatest demonstration that we are wilfull corrupters is behind though it be tedious for vs to rake in such a gogmyre of your forgeries and false accusations yet we will take courage and consider what mayne demonstration you can make to proue vs in our English translations to be wilful corrupters MART. 48. Doubt you whether they translate of purpose and partialitie in fauour of their opinions you shall heare them selues say so and protest it If I dealt with Lutherans this one testimonie of Luther were sufficient who being asked why he added onely into the text Rom. 3. answered that he did it to explicate the Apostles sense more plainly that is to make the Apostle say more plainly that faith onely iustified And his Disciple Illyricus disputeth the matter that the Apostle saying by faith without workes saith in deede onely faith But because I deale rather with our English Caluinists and Beza is their chiefe translator and a Captaine among them whome they professe to follow in the title of the new Testament anno 1580. and by the very name of their Geneua Bibles let vs see what he sayth FVLKE 48. I thinke there is no man doubteth but they translated the Scripture with purpose to maintaine their opinions but whether they haue wittingly and wilfully translated falsely to maintaine any errours or hereticall opinions that is the matter in question and which hath neede of your greatest demonstration to make it apparant That Luther might rightly interprete the place Rom. 3. of onely faith iustifying by the excluding of works I haue before acknowledged Illyricus doth rightly defend it But that he did put in the worde only in his translation which is not in the originall I will not take vpon me to excuse seeing the truth of that doctrine is manifest without that addition and Luther him selfe in his later editions hath reformed it Againe what fault soeuer other men haue committed in their translation we are vniustly charged therewith except we follow the same in ours That we professe to follow Beza by the very name of our Geneua Bibles it is a very ridiculous argument For our Bibles are so commonly called because they were translated and first printed at Geneua not by Beza who at that time had scarse finished his translation of the newe Testament and neuer dealt with translating of the olde so farre as we knowe but by certaine godlye and learned Englishe men which liued there in Queene Maries time to enioy the libertie of a good conscience which they could not haue in their owne Country MART. 49. First concerning 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
〈◊〉 which the vulgar Latine and Erasmus translate Agite poenitentiam Repent or Doe penance This interpretation sayth he I refuse for many causes but for this especially that many ignorant persons haue taken hereby an occasion of the false opinions of SATISFACTION wherewith the Church is troubled at this day Loe of purpose against satisfaction he will not translate the Greeke worde as it ought to be and as it is proued to signifie both in this booke and in the annotations vpon the newe Testament A litle after speaking of the same worde he sayth why I haue changed the name poenitentia I haue tolde a litle before protesting that he will neuer vse those wordes but resipiscere and resipiscentia that is amendment of life because of their heresie that repentance is nothing else but a meere amendment of former life without recompense or satisfaction or penance for the sinnes before committed See chap. 13. FVLK 49. Of purpose against the heresie of satisfaction Beza will not translate the Greeke worde as the vulgar Latine translator dothe but yet as the Greeke worde ought to be translated Erasmus finding the vulgar Latine vnsufficient hath added Vitae prioris that is repent yee of your former life Neither dothe Beza finde faulte with the English worde repent but with the Latine Agite paenitentiam when you translate it do penaunce meaning thereby paine or satisfaction for sinnes passed to be a necessarie parte of true repentance which is not conteyned in the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth changing of the mind that is not onely a sorrow for the sinne past but also a purpose of amendment which is beste expressed by the Latine worde Resipiscere which is alwaies taken in the good parte as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is in the Scripture where as the Latine wordes paenitere and Paenitentia are vsed in Latine of sorrowe or repentance that is too late As paenitere and paenitentia may be saide of Iudas grief of minde which caused him to hang him selfe but not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or resipiscere and resipisscentia and therefore the Holye Ghoste speakinge of his sorrowe vseth an other worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And this is the cause why Beza refused the worde Paenitentia hauing a Latine worde that more properlye doeth expresse the Greeke worde as wee might lawefullye doe in Englishe if wee had an other Englishe worde proper to that repentaunce whiche is alwayes ioyned with faith and purpose of amendmente for wante whereof wee are constrayned to vse the wordes repente and repentaunce whiche maye bee taken in good parte or in euill For wee saye repentaunce too late and Iudas repented too late but there is no 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that can bee called too late But where you saye that resipiscere and resipiscentia is nothing but amendement of life and that repentaunce in our heresie is nothing else but a meere amendment of former life you speake vntruly for those words do signifie not only amendment of life but also sorrow for the sinnes past although without recompēce or satisfactiō which you call penance for the sinnes before cōmitted for we know no recompence or satisfactiō made to God for our sinnes but the death of Christ who is the propitiation for our sinnes 1. Iohn 1. Neither hath your blasphemous satisfaction any grounde in the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but onely a foolish colour by the Latine translation Agite poenitentiam which it is like your Latine interpreter did neuer dreame of and therefore he vseth the worde Resipiscere 2. Tim. 2. Of them to whom God should giue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 repentaunce to the acknowledging of the truth Et resipiscant and so they may repent or as you translate it recouer themselues from the snare of the Diuell Seyng therefore repentance is the gifte of God it is no recompence or satisfaction made by vs to God to answere his iustice but an earnest and true griefe of minde for our transgression of Gods lawe and offending against his maiestie with a certaine purpose and determination of amendment so neere as God shall giue vs grace Hetherto therefore we haue no demonstration of any wilfull corruption but a declaration of the cause that moued Beza to vse a more exact translation and such as commeth nearer to the originall worde than that which the vulgar translation hath vsed vpon which occasion of a great blasphemie hath bene taken and is yet mainteyned MART. 50. Againe concerning the worde Iustifications which in the Scripture very often signifie the commaundements he saith thus The Greeke interpreters of the Bible meaning the Septuaginta applieth this worde to signifie the whole Lawe of God and therefore commonly it is wont to be translated worde for worde Iustificationes which interpretation therefore only I reiected that I might take away this occasion also of cauilling against iustification by faith and so for iustificationes he putteth constituta Tullies worde forsooth as he saith Can you haue a more playne tèstimonie of his heretic all purpose FVLK 50. Concerning the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which Beza translateth Constitutionibus constitutions and you confesse that in Scripture it doth very often signifie the commaundements He sayth first that as the whole Lawe of God is diuided into three partes Morall Ceremoniall and Iudiciall so the Hebrewes haue three seuerall words to expresse the seueral precepts of those lawes For the Hebrew word which signifieth the Ceremoniall precepts the Greekes vse to translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So the sense is that Zacharie and Elisabeth were iust walking in all the Morall commaundements and obseruing the holy rites and ceremonies as much as concerned them but the thirde worde which signifieth Iudgements S. Luke doth not adde because the exercise of Iudiciall cases did not belong vnto them being priuate persons After this he saith that the Greeke Interpreters of the Bible transferred this worde vnto the whole lawe of God and especially to the holy ceremonies so verily exceedingly commending the law that it is a certaine rule of all iustice And therefore men are wont commonly in respect of the worde to turne it Iustifications And this worde in this place Beza in deede confesseth that he refused to vse for auoyding of cauillations against iustification by fayth seeing he hath none other worde neither woulde he for offence seeke any newe worde to expresse iustification by faith whereas the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this text Luc. 1. verse 6. signifieth not that by which they were made iust but the commaundements or precepts of God by walking in which they were declared to be iust For by the workes of the lawe such as Saint Luke here speaketh of no fleshe shall be iustified before God Therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this place must haue an other sense than iustifications namely commaundements as you saye it
you so malitious an enimie vnto him hauing spent all your inuention to seeke holes in his translation can finde nothing but such childish cauils as when they be discouered men will maruaile that you were not ashamed to moue them MART. 56. But after this generall vewe of their wilfull purpose and heretical intention let vs examine their false translations more particularly and argue the case with them more at large and presse them to answere whether in their conscience it be so or no as hitherto is saide and that by seuerall chapters of such CONTROVERSIES as their corruptions concerne and first of all without further curiositie whence to begin in cases so indifferent of TRADITIONS FVLK 56. The more particularly you examine our translations the freer I hope they shall be found from falsehoode wilfull corruption And the more at large you argue the case and presse vs to answere the more you shall make the case to appeare worse on your side and the truth clearer on our parte And as God is witnesse of our conscience and sinceritie in setting forth his word without adulteration or corruptiō so I appeale to the consciences of al indifferent readers whether hitherto you haue gotten any aduantage against vs in this whole chapter which yet you professe to be the abridgement and summe of your whole treatise CHAP. II. Hereticall translation of holy Scripture against Apostolicall TRADITIONS Martin THis is a matter of such importance that if they shoulde graunt any traditions of the Apostles and not pretende the written worde onely they know that by such traditions mentioned in all antiquitie their religion were wholy defaced and ouerthrowen For remedie whereof and for the defacing of all such traditions they bend their translations against them in this wonderfull maner Wheresoeuer the holy Scripture speaketh against certaine traditions of the Iewes partly friuolous partly repugnant to the law of God there all the English translations follow the Greeke exactly neuer omitting this word tradition Contrariwise wheresoeuer the holy Scripture speaketh in the commendation of Traditions to wit such traditions a◠the Apostles deliuered to the Church there all their sayd translations agree not to followe the Greeke which is still the selfe same word but for traditions they translate ordinaunces or instructions Why so and to what purpose we appeale to the worme of their conscience which continually accuseth them of an hereticall meaning whether by vrging the word traditions wheresoeuer they are discommended and by suppressing the word wheresoeuer they are commended their purpose and intent be not to signifie to the Reader that all traditions are naught and none good all reproueable none allowable Fulke TRaditions in deede is a matter of such importance as if you may be allowed whatsoeuer you will thrust vpon vs vnder the name of vnwritten traditions the written worde of God shall serue to no purpose at all For first as you plainly professe the holy Scripture shall not be accounted sufficient to teach all truth necessary to saluation that the man of God may be perfect prepared to all good works Secondly with the Valentinian heretikes you accuse the Scriptures of vncertaine vnderstāding without your traditions vnder pretense of which you wil bring in what you list though it be neuer so contrary to the holy Scriptures plaine wordes by colour of interpretatiō as you do the worshipping of images many other like heresies As for the mention that is made of Apostolicall traditions in diuerse of the auncient fathers some of thē are such as you your selues obserue not not for the tenth part of those that you obserue can you bring any testimony out of the ancient fathers as is proued sufficiently by so many propositiōs as were set downe by the Bishoppe of Sarisburie M. Iewel whereof you can bring no proofe for any one to haue bene taught within 600. yeres after Christ. Now concerning the traditions of the Apostles what they were who can be a better witnesse vnto vs than Ignatius the disciple of the Apostles of whom Eusebius writeth that when he was led towardes Rome where he suffred martyrdom he earnestly exhorted the Churches by which he passed to continue in the faith and against all heresies which euen then began to bud vp he charged thē to retaine fast the traditiō of the Apostles which by that time he protested to be committed to writing for by that time were al the books of the new Testament written The words of Eusebius concerning this matter are li. 3. c. 35. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And he exhorted thē straitly to kepe the tradition of the Apostles which testifying that it was now for assurance cōmitted to writing he thought necessary to be plainly taught Against this tradition of the Apostles which for certaintie assurance is contained in their holy vndoubted writings we say nothing but striue altogither for it But because the word traditions is by you Papistes taken to signifie a doctrine secretely deliuered by worde of mouth without authority of the holy Scriptures we do willingly auoide the word in our translations where the simple might be deceiued to think that the holy ghost did euer cōmēd any such to the church which he would not haue to be committed to writing in the holy Scriptures in steede of that word so commōly taken although it doth not necessarily signifie any such matters we doe vse such wordes as do truly expresse the Apostles meaning the Greke word doth also signifie Therfore we vse the words of ordināces or instructiōs or institutiōs or the doctrine deliuered all which being of one sense the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doeth signifie and the same doth tradition signifie if it be rightly vnderstoode but seing it hath bene commonly taken and is vrged of the Papistes to signifie only a doctrine deliuered beside the word of God written in such places where the holy Ghost vseth the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that sense we translate by that worde tradition where he vseth it for such doctrine as is groūded vpon the holy Scriptures our translatours haue auoyded it not of any hereticall meaning that all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 traditions are naught but that all such as haue not the holy Scripture to testifie of them and to warrant them are euill and to be auoyded of all true Christians which can not without blasphemie acknowledge any imperfection in the holy Scriptures of God which are able to make a man wise vnto saluation if they shoulde thinke any doctrine necessarie to saluation not to be cōtained therein MART. 2. For example Matt. 15. Thus they translate Why do thy disciples transgresse the TRADITION of the Elders And againe Why do you also transgresse the commaundement of God by your TRADITION And againe Thus haue you made the commaundement of God of no effect by your TRADITION Here I warrant you all the bels sound tradition and the word is neuer omitted
Ex. 32. in Ieroboams calues in the brasen serpent the wiser sort of the Gentils and Papists pretend to do in worshipping their images then it is a sinne against the second cōmaundement Thou shalt make to thy selfe no grauen images Thou shalt not fall downe to them nor worship thē By similitude therfore of thē that trusted in images as their gods so honored thē which were not able to helpe them the Apostle calleth the couetous man a worshipper of images couetousnes worshipping of images not properly but because their monie is to thē the same occasion of departing from God that the images was to the worshipper of thē So if we will speake vnproperly as the Apostle saith their belly is their God we may say it is their idoll or their image which they worship as God not that the belly or any such thing is God or an idol or an image properly but that it is so termed for that to such vile creatures is giuen that diuine honor which is due to God but by worshippers of idols and images is giuen to idols or images I confesse the vse of the English tongue in these speaches is rather to call thē idols than images and to extend the name idol which is alwaies taken in the euill parte to that which the word image can not so aptly signifie yet in trueth of the thing there is no difference betwene idol and image worshipping of idols and worshipping of images whether you speake of such as be idols images so properly called or of such as be onely by similitude figuratiuely so named If any of our Superintendēts be such as you speake of I wish them amended or else remoued For my parte I know none to be suche although I wish to the best encrease of Gods grace to despise the world to be more earnest in setting foorth Gods glorie As for the great difference you speake of betwixt S. Paules wordes and our translation I see none as yet MART. 3. Will you see more yet to this purpose In the English Bible printed the yeare 1562. you reade thus Howe agreeth the Temple of God with images Can we be ignorant of Satans cogitations herein that it was translated of purpose to delude the simple people to make them beleue that the Apostle speaketh against sacred images in the Churches which were then in plucking downe in Englande when this your translation was first published in print Whereas in very truth you know that the Apostle here partely interpreteth him selfe to speake of men as of Gods temples wherein he dwelleth partely alludeth to Salomons Temple which did very well agree with images for it had the Cherubins which were the representations of Angels the figures of oxen to beare up the lauatory but with idols it could not agree and therefore the Apostles words are these How agreeth the Temple of God with idols FVLK 3. We had neede to see more before we be conuicted of corruption for hitherto we haue seene nothing but a folish cauill groūded vpon the cōmon vse of the word idol in English in which speach it is takē only for vnlawful images although in the Greeke it signifieth as generally as Imago in Latin by Tully him selfe is vsed for the same But in the English Bible printed 1562. we read thus 2. Cor. 6. How agreeth the tēple of God with images Here you can not be ignorant of Satans cogitatiōs that it was translated of purpose to make the simple people beleue that the Apostle speaketh against sacred images in churches which were then in plucking downe in Englande when this translation was first published in print You are so cunning in Satans cogitations that he hath inspired into you a manifest vntrueth for this text was so translated printed nere 30. yeres before 1562. in King Henrie the eightes time when images were not in plucking downe And when it was printed againe 1562. which was the fifth yere of her Maiesties reigne God be thāked there was no neede to plucke downe images out of churches which were pluckt downe in the first and secōd yeres of her reigne Wherfore that purpose is vainly imagined of you for the trāslaters purpose was the same that the Apostles to shew that the religion of God hath nothing to do with images made by mans deuise to honor them as gods or to honor God by them And where you say that the Apostle alludeth to Salomons temple which did well agree with images but not with idols I answere you Salomons tēple did not agree with images made by the deuise of man to honour God by them or in thē For the Cherubins were not of mans deuise but of Gods commaundemēt the oxen to hold vp the lauatory the pomegranats other ornaments were not for any vse of religion to worship God in them or by them but for vse garnishing of the house appointed by God in his law and by direction of his spirit in Salomon For the commaundement Thou shalt not make to thy selfe is no restraint vnto God but vnto men of their owne braine or priuate intent to make images to serue in religion Therefore the Apostle speaking of suche images as were forbidden by Gods lawe is not otherwise to be vnderstoode and no more is our translation MART. 4. When Moises by Gods appointment erected a brasen serpent and commaunded the people that were stung with serpents to behold it thereby they were healed this was an image only and as an image was it erected kept vsed by Gods commaundement But when it grew to be an idol saith S. Augustine that is when the people began to adore it as God then king Ezechias brake it in peeces to the great cōmendation of his piety godly zeale So when the children of Israel in the absence of Moises made a caife said These are thy Gods ô Israel that brought thee out of Aegipt was it but an image which they made was that so hainous a matter that God would so haue punished them as he did No they made it an idol also saying These are thy gods ô Israel And therfore the Apostle saith to the Corinthians Be not idolaters as some of them Which also you translate most falsely Be not worshippers of images as some of them FVLK 4. The brasen serpent first and last was an image holy when it was commaunded by God to bee made as a sacrament of our redemption by Christ lawfull when it was reserued onely for memorie of that excellent miracle vnlawefull cursed and abhominable when it was worshipped and therefore iustly broken in peeces by the godly king Ezechias You cite Augustine as it pleaseth you to followe your owne context Quem sanè serpentem propter facti memoriam reseruatum cum posteà populus errans tanquam idolum colere cepisset Ezechias c. Which serpent truly being reserued for the
and Epiphanius that they condemned this worshipping of images for heresie Suche a babe was Epiphanius that finding the image of Christ painted in vaile hanging in a Church at Anablatha he iudged it to be contrarie to the Scriptures and rent it in peeces Suche a babe was Tertullian that speaking of that verie texte of Sainct Iohn litle children keepe your selues from idolls he writeth Non iam ab idololatria quasi ab officio sed ab idolis id est ab ipsa effigie eorum Indignum enim vt imago Dei viui Imago Idoli mortui fiat He biddeth them take heede not nowe from idolatrie as from the seruice but from the idolls them selues that is to say from the verie images or shapes of them For it is vnworthie that the image of the liuing God shoulde bee made the image of an idoll and that being deade Finally suche a babe was your vulgar translatour that he sayth Filioli custâ—dite vos à simulachris Which is all one as if he shoulde haue sayed ab imaginibus as I haue plentifully proued children keepe your selues from images As for the purpose you pretende to haue in honouring Christ by images contrarie to his commaundement is in deede nothing but dishonouring of him and destruction of your selues MART. 14. But the gay confuter with whome I beganne sayeth for further aunswere Admit that in some of our translations it bee Children keepe your selues from images for so he woulde haue sayed if is were truely printed What great crime of corruption is here committed And when it is sayed agayne this is the crime and fault thereof that they meane by so translating to make the simple beleue that idols and images are all one which is absurde he replyeth that it is no more absurditie than in steede of a Greeke worde to vse a Latine of the same signification And vpon this position he graunteth that according to the propertie of the Greeke worde a man may say God made man according to his idol and that generally idoluÌ„ may as truely be translated an image as Tyrannus a King which is verie true both being absurde and here he cited many authours and dictionaries idly to proue that idolum may signifie the same that image FVLK 14. But this scornefull replier with whom I haue to do is so accustomed to false and vnhonest dealing that he can neuer report any thing that I haue written truely and as I haue written but with one forgerie or an other he will cleane corrupt and peruert my saying As here he shameth nothing to affirme that I graunt that according to the propertie of the Greeke worde a man may say God made man according to his idoll I will reporte mine owne wordes by which euerie man may perceaue howe honestly he dealeth with me But admit that in some translation it bee as you say Children keepe your selues from images what greate crime of corruption is here committed You saye that it is to make simple men beleeue that idolls and images are all one which is absurde This is no more absurditie than in stead of a Greeke word to vse a Latine of the same signification But you replie that then where Moises sayeth that God made man according to his owne image we shoulde consequently say that God made man according to his idoll I aunswere howsoeuer the name of idols in the Englishe tongue for the greate dishonour that is done to God in worshipping of images is become so odious that no Christian man woulde say that God made man according to his idoll no more than a good subiect woulde call his lawefull Prince a tyraunt yet according to the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may bee as truely translated an image as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a King Here if I were disposed to giue the rayne to affection as you doe often being vnprouoked by me were sufficient occasion offered to insult against your falsehoode But I will forbeare and in plaine wordes tell you that if you be so simple that you can not vnderstande the difference of these two propositions 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wheresoeuer it is reade in Greeke may be truely translated an image and this wheresoeuer the worde image is vsed in Englishe you may vse the word idoll you are vnmeete to reade a Diuinitie Lecture in Englande how soeuer you be aduaunced in Rhemes If not of ignorance but of malice you haue peruerted both my words and meaning let God and all godly men be iudge betwene you and me My wordes are not obscure nor ambiguous but that euerie child may vnderstand my meaning to be no more but this That this Englishe worde idoll is by vse restrayned onely to wicked images The Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth generally all images as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did all Kings vntill Kings that were so called became hatefull for crueltie which caused euen the name tyrannus to be odious MART. 15. But I beseech you Sir if the dictionaries tell you that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may by the originall propertie of the worde signifie an image which no man denieth doe they tell you also that you may commonly and ordinarily translate it so as the common vsuall signification thereof or do they tell you that image and idol are so all one that wheresoeuer you finde this worde image you may truely call it idol for these are the points that you should defend in your answere For an example do they teach you to translate in these places thus God hath predestinated vs to be made conformable to the idol of his sonne And againe As we haue borne the idol of the earthly Adam so let vs beare the idol of the heauenly CHRIST And againe We are transformed into the same idol euen as our Lordes spirit And againe The Law hauing a shadowe of the good things to come not the very idol of the things And againe Christ who is the idol of the inuisible God Is this I pray you a true translation yea say you according to the propertie of the worde but because the name of idols in the English tongue for the great dishonour done to God in worshipping of images is become odious no ChristiaÌ„ man would say so FVLK 15. No man denieth you say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may by the originall proprietie of the worde signifie an image It is well that being conuicted by all Dictionaries old and new you will at length yeelde to the truth But you demaund whether the Dictionaries do tell me that I may commonly and ordinarily translate it so as the common vsuall signification thereof Sir I medle only with the translations of the Scripture and the Dicctionaries tell me that so it vsually signifieth and therefore so I may translate in the Scripture or any other ancient Greeke writer that vseth the worde according to the originall proprietie thereof Peraduenture some later Greeke writers restraining it
of faith necessarie to saluation are comprehended But we are content to be iudged by those places which seeme of most importance for the dignity preheminence authoritye of the Church MART. 2. Our Sauiour saith Vpon this Rocke I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it They make him to say Vpō this rocke I wil build my congregation Againe If he heare not them tell the Church if he heare not the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen and as a publicane they say Congregation Againe who woulde thinke they woulde haue altered the worde Church in the Epistle to the Ephesians their English translation for many yeares red thus Ye husbands loue your wiues as Christ loued the congregation and clensed it to make it vnto him selfe a glorious congregation without spot or wrinkle And This is a great secrete but I speake of Christ of the cōgregation And to Timothee The house of God which is the cōgregation of the liuing God the pillar and grounde of truth Here is no worde of Churche which in Latine Greeke is Ecclesia Dei viui columna firmamētum veritatis Likewise to the Ephesians againe He hath made him heade of the congregation which is his bodie And to the Hebrues they are all bolde to translate The congregation of the first borne where the Apostle nameth heauenly Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God c. FVLK 2. In the first English Bible printed where it was thus translated Math. 16. vppon this rocke I will build my congregation the note in the margent is thus vpon this rock that is as saith S. Augustin vpon the confession which thou hast made knowledging me to be Christ the sonne of the liuing God I will build my congregation or Church Was not this translator thinke you sore afraid of the name of the Church What other thing should he vnderstand by the word congregation in al places by you noted or in any like but the church as he doth here expound him selfe And this translation almost worde for worde doth the Bible you call 1562. follow MART. 3. So that by this translation there is no more Church militant and triumphant but congregation and he is not head of the Church but of the congregation and this congregation at the time of the making of this translation was in a few new brethren of England for whose sake the name Church was left out of the English Bible to commend the name of congregation aboue the name of Church Whereas S. Augustine telleth them that the Iewes Synagogue was a congregation the Church a conuocation and that a congregation is of beasts also a conuocation of reasonable creatures onely and that the Iewes congregation is sometime called the Church but the Apostles neuer called the Church Congregation Doe you see then what a goodly chaunge they haue made for Church to say congregation so making themselues a very Synagogue that by the property of the Greeke word which yet as S. Augustine telleth them most truely signifieth rather a conuocation FVLK 3. A strange matter that the Church militant and triumphant should be excluded by vsing the word congregation when by it nothing is signified but the congregation or Church militant and triumphant and that Christ should no more be head of the Churche when he is head of the congregation where the differēce is only in sound of words not in sense or meaning Your vaine and ridiculous surmise why the name of Church shuld be left out of the Bible I haue before cōfuted shewing that in euery Bible it is either in the text or in the notes But S. Augustin telleth vs say you that the Iewes synagoge was a congregation the church a cōuocation that a congregation is of beasts also a conuocation of reasonable creatures only But S. Luke in the person of S. Stephen telleth vs and Augustine telleth vs as much that the synagoge of the Iewes is called also Ecclesia which signifieth the church and congregation That Congregatio the Latin word may be of beasts also it skilleth not for the church of Christ is called also a flocke and sheepe of his pasture But he that should say in English a cōgregation of beastes might be taken for as wise a man as he that said an audiēce of sheepe And wheras S. Augustine telleth you that the Iewes congregation is somtime called the church what is the cause that you doe translate it the assembly Act. 7. euen as you do the congregation of the Idolatrous Ephesians Act. 19 But further you say Augustine telleth vs that the Apostles neuer called the church congregation It is a worlde to see what foolishe fetches you haue to deceiue the ignoraunt Augustine sayeth the Apostles neuer called our assembly Synagoga but alwaies Ecclesia and yet he is a litle deceiued for S. Paul calleth our gathering togither vnto Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but Congregatio a cōgregation he saith not And although he make a nice distinction betwene the wordes Congregation Conuocation yet all men which know the vse of these words will confesse no necessitie of a Iewish synagoge to be implied in the word cōgregation more than in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which of the holy Ghost is vsed for an assembly or gathering togither either of Iewes Christiās or Gentils And therfore it seemeth the translatour vsed the word congregation which is indifferent for all euen as the worde Ecclesia is vsed both in the Greeke and vulgar Latine MART. 4. If they appeale here to their later translatiōs we must obtaine of them to condemne the former and to confesse this was a grosse fault cōmitted therein And that the Catholike Church of our coūtrie did not il to forbid burne such bookes which were so translated by Tyndal and the like as being not in deede Gods booke worde or Scripture but the Diuels worde Yea they must confesse that the leauing out of this worde Church altogither was of an hereticall spirite against the Catholike Romane Church because then they had no Caluinisticall Church in any like forme of religion gouernement to theirs now Neither will it serue them to say after their maner And if a man should translate Ecclesiam congregation this is no more absurdity than in steede of a Greeke word to vse a Latin of the same signification This we trow will not suffise them in the iudgement of the simplest indifferent Reader FVLK 4. Wee neede not to appeale to the later translations for any corruption or falsification of the former no nor for any mistranslation For seing the spirite of God as I haue said before vseth the word Ecclesia generally for a companie of Christians Iewes and Gentils the translator hath not gone from the truth and vse of the Scriptures to vse the word cōgregation which signifieth indifferently all three Wherefore there needeth no condemnation nor
Presbyter Doeth not Priest come of Presbyter as certainly and as agreeably as Deacon of Diaconus Doth not also the French and Italian word for Priest come directly from the same Will you alwaies followe fansie and not reason doe what you list translate as you list and not as the truth is and that in the holy Scriptures which you boast and vaunt so much of Because your selues haue theÌ„ whom you call Bishops the name Bishops is in your Englishe Bibles which otherwise by your owne rule of translation should be called an Ouerseer or Superintendent likewise Deacon you are content to vse as an Ecclesiasticall word so vsed in antiquitie because you also haue those whom you call Deacons Only Priests must be turned contemptuously out of the text of the holy Scriptures Elders put in their place because you haue no Priestes nor will none of them and because that is in controuersie betwene vs. And as for Elders you haue none permitted in EnglaÌ„d for feare of ouerthrowing your Bishops office and the Queenes supreame gouernment in all spiritual things and causes Is not this to followe the humour of your heresie by Machiauels politike rules without any feare of God FVLK 12. Here I must aunswere you that we haue no degree of Ministers distinct from Deacons but by vulgar and popular vse of speaking which we are not curious to controule Otherwise in truth we account Bishops Elders and Deacons all Ministers of the Church It is no more therefore but the common speache of men which vseth that worde which is common to all Ecclesiasticall persons as peculiar to the Elders or Priestes Why we keepe the name of Deacons in translating Diaconus rather than of Priestes in translating Presbyter I haue tolde you often before The name Priest being by long abuse of speache applied to signifie Sacrificers of the olde Testament called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we could not giue the same name to the Ministers of the new Testament except we had some other name whereby to call the Ministers of the olde Testament wherein we followe reason and not fansie for it is great reason we should retaine that difference in names of the Ministers of both the Testamentes which the holy Ghost doth alwaies obserue But you follow fansie altogither imagining that Priestes onely are put out of the text because we haue no Priestes Whereas we haue Priestes as well as we haue Bishops and Deacons and so are they called in our booke of common prayer indifferently Priestes or Ministers And where you say we haue no Elders permitted in Englande it is false for those that are commonly called Bishoppes Ministers or Priestes among vs be suche Elders as the Scripture commendeth vnto vs. And although we haue not suche a consistorie of Elders of gouernemente as in the Primitiue Churche they had and many Churches at this daye haue yet haue wee also Elders of gouernement to exercise discipline as Archbishoppes and Bishoppes with their Chauncellours Archedeacons Commissaries Officialles in whome if any defecte bee we wishe it may be reformed according to the worde of God MART. 13. Apostles you say for the most parte in your translations not alwayes as we doe and Prophetes and Euangelistes and Angels and such like wheresoeuer there is no matter of controuersie betwene you and vs there you can pleade verie grauely for keeping the auncient Ecclesiasticall wordes as your maister Beza for example beside many other places where he bitterly rebuketh his fellow Castalâ—ons translation in one place writeth thus I can not in this place dissemble the boldnesse of certaine men which would God it rested within the compasse of words only These men therefore concerning the worde Baptizing though vsed of sacred writers in the mystery or Sacrament of the new Testament and for so many yeares after by the secrete consent of all Churches consecrated to this one Sacrament so that it is now growen into the vulgar speaches almost of all nations yet they dare presume rashly to chaunge it and in place thereof to vse the word washing Delicate men forsooth which neither are moued with the perpetual authority of so many ages nor by the daily custom of the vulgar speach can be brought to thinke that lawfull for Diuines which all men graunt to other Maisters and professors of artes that is to retaine and holde that as their owne which by long vse and in good faith they haue truly possessed Neither may they preteÌ„d the authoritie of some auncient writers as that Cyprian sayeth TINGENTES for BAâ—PTIZANTES and Tertullian in a certaine place calleth SEQVESTREM for MEDIATOREM For that which was to those auncientes as it were newe to vs is olde and euen then that the selfe same words which we now vse were familiar to the Church it is euident because it is very seldome that they speake otherwise But these men by this noueltie seeke after vaine glorie c. FVLK 13. If in any place we vse not the name of the Apostles Prophetes Euangelists Angels and such like wee are able to giue as sufficient a reason why we translate those wordes according to their Generall signification as you for translating somtime Baptismata washings and not baptismes Ecclesia the assembly and not the Church with such like Therefore as Castaleo such other Heretikes are iustly reprehended by Beza for leauing without cause the vsuall Ecclesiasticall termes so when good cause or necessitie requireth not to vse them it were superstition yea and almost madnes sometimes in translating to vse them as to call the Pharisees washings Baptismes or the assembly of the EphesiaÌ„ Idolaters the Churche yet both in Greeke and Latine the wordes are Baptismata ecclesia MART. 14. He speaketh against Castaleon who in his newe Latine translation of the Bible changed all Ecclesiasticall wordes into profane and Heathenish as Angelos into genios Prophetas into Fatidicos Templum into fanum and so foorth But that which he did for foolish affectation of finenesse and stile do not our English Caluinistes the very same when they list for furthering their Heresies When the holy Scripture saith idols according as Christians haue alwayes vnderstood it for false goddes they come and tell vs out of Homer and the Lexicons that it may signifie an image and therfore so they translate it Do they not the like in the Greeke worde that by Ecclesiasticall vse signifieth penaunce and doing penaunce when they argue out of Plutarch and by the profane sense therof that it is nothing else but chaunging of the minde or amendment of life Whereas in the Greeke Church Poenitentes that is they that were in the course of penance and excluded from the Church as Catechumeni and Energumeni till they had accomplished their penance the very same are called in the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 FVLK 14. That Castaleo did for foolish affectatioÌ„ of finenesse you slauÌ„der vs to do for furthering of heresie
not complaine of the singularitie of this exaÌ„ple although you require but one I wil adde out of the Psalme 141. where the Prophet saith our bones are scattered at the very brinke or mouth of sheol the graue Howe can you vnderstand him to speake of hel For the graue and not hell is a place for dead mens bones as he speaketh of the faithfull by the wicked compted as good as dead rotten consumed to the bones By these and many other examples it is manifest that the proper signification of sheol in English is a graue and not hell MART. 22. And therefore Beza doth strangely abuse his Reader more than in one place saying that the Hebrue word doth properly signifie graue beyng deduced of a verbe that signifieth to craue or aske because it craueth alwayes newe coarses As though the graue craued moe than Hel doth or swallowed moe or were more hardly satisfied and filled than Hell for in all such places they translate graue And in one such place they say The graue and destructioÌ„ can neuer be ful Whereas them selues a litle before translate the very same wordes Hel destructioÌ„ and therefore it might haue pleased them to haue said also Hel and destructioÌ„ can neuer be ful as their powfellowes do in their translation and againe We shal swalow them vp like Hel. The Diuel we reade goeth about continually like a roaring lion seeking whom he may deâ—ouâ— Who is called in the Apocalypse Abaddon that is destruction And so very aptly Hel and destruction are ioyned togither and are truly said neuer to be filled What madnesse and impudencie is it then for Beza to write thus Who is ignorant that by the Hebrue worde rather is signified a graue for that it seemeth after a sorte to craue alwaies new câ—rcasses FVLK 22. Beza doth not abuse his reader to tel him that sheol is deriued of a verbe that signifieth crauing or asking but you doe vnhonestly abuse Beza as you doe euery man when you take in hand to affirme that he standeth onely vpon the etymologie of sheol to proue that it signifieth the graue MART. 23. And againe coÌ„cerning our Sauiour Christs descending into hell and deliuering the fathers from thence it is maruel fâ—iâ—lr Beâ—a that the most parte of the auncient fathers were in this errour whereas with the Hebrues the word SHEOL signifieth nothing else but GRAVE Before he pleaded vpon the etymologie or nature of the worde now also he pleadeth vpon the authoritie of the Hebrues themselues If he were not knowen to be very impudent and obstinate wee woulde easily mistrust his skill in the Hebrue saying that among the Hebrues the worde signifieth nothing else but graue FVLK 23. Beza sayth that the worde Sheol properly signifieth nothing but the graue neuerthelesse hee saith it is taken figuratiuely for tribulation whiche is neere to extreeme destruction yea and sometime for the bottomlesse pitte of hell MART. 24. I would gladly knowe what are those Hebrues doth not the Hebrue text of the holy Scripture best tell vs the vse of this word Do not themselues translate it Hel very often do not the Septuaginta alwaies If any Hebrue in the world were asked how he would turne these wordes into Hebrue Similes estis sepulchris dealbatis you are like to whited graues And Sepulchrum eius apud vos est His graue is among you would any Hebrue I say translate it by this Hebrue worde which Beza saith among the Hebrues signifieth nothing else but graue Aske your Hebrue Readers in this case and see what they will answere FVLK 24. The best of the Hebrues that either interpreted Scriptures or made Dictionaries Iewes or Christians do acknowledge that sheol doth properly signifie the graue That the Septuaginta do alwaies traÌ„slate it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it proueth not that it alwaies signifieth hel for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth not alwaies hell as in the place of NuÌ„b. 16. As for the turning of Latin into Hebrue is not our coÌ„trouersie but of translating Hebrue into English sheol may signifie the graue the hole the pit as Fâ—â—ea though it be not all one with the Latine worde Sepulchrum And yet Rabbi Salomon whome you boldly cite in the 27. Section saith plainely that the true and proper interpretation of Sheol is Keber whiche you say is as proper for graue as Lac is for milke MART. 25. What are those Hebrues then that Beza speaketh of forsooth certaine Iewes or later Rabbines which as they doe falsely interprete all the holy Scriptures agaynst our Sauiour Christ in other points of our beleefe as against his Incarnation Death and Resurrection so do they also falsely interprete the holy scriptures against his descending into Hell which those Iewish Rabbines deny because they looke for another Messias that shal not die at al and consequeÌ„tly shal not after his death go downe into Hel deliuer the fathers expecting his comming as our sauiour Christ did And therfore those Iewish Rabbines hold as the heretikes do that the fathers of the old Testament were in heauen before our sauiour Christs Incarnation these Rabbines are they which also peruert the Hebrue word to the significatioÌ„ of graue in such places of the holy scriptures as speake either of our Sauiour Christes descending into hel or of the fathers going downe into Hell euen in like maner as they peruert other Hebrew wordes of the holy scripture as namely alma to signifie a young woman not a virgin against our Sauiours birth of the B. Virgin Marie FVLK 25. Beza speaketh of the holy men of God which did write the Scriptures and so vse that word Sheol as it can not be taken to signifie any thing properly but the graue or pit And as for the Iewish RabbiÌ„s what reason is there why we should not credite them in the interpretatiou of wordes of their owne tongue rather than any auncient Christians ignorant of the Hebrewe tongue And although they doe sometimes frowardly contend about the significatioÌ„ of a word or two against the truth of the Gospell that is no sufficient cause why they should be discredited in all words But beside them Beza hath also the best Hebritians that haue bene in this laste age among the Christians not onely Protestants but Papistes also namely Pagninus and Masius in their Dictionaries MART. 26. And if these later Rabbines be the Hebrewes that Beza meaneth and which these gay English translators followe we lament that they ioyne themselues with such companions being the sworne enemies of our Sauiour Christ. Surely the Christian Hebrewes in Rome and elsewhere which of great Rabbines are become zealous Doctors of Christianitiâ— and therefore honour euery mysterie and article of our Christian faith concerning our Sauiour Christ they dispute as vehemently against those other Rabbines as we doe against the Heretikes and among other things they tell them thus Saul sayd Raise me vp Samuel
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall not giue honour to God where it is certaine that by that worde is meant the graue seeing the soules of the righteous that were in Abrahams bosome did praise God and moreouer he maketh it plaine that he speaketh of the deade bodies when he sayth their spirite is taken out of their bowels MART. 32. And for the Latine worde it is the like case for all the worlde and if a man will aske but his childe that commeth from the Grammar what is Infernus he will say Hell and not graue what is Latine for graue He will aunswere Sepulchrum or monumentum But neuer Infernus vnlesse one of these Caluinisticall translatours taught him so to deceiue his father FVLK 32. I hope they that be wise will beleeue S. Augustine rather than you that the worde Inferi which is the same that Infernus hath diuerse and manifolde vnderstandings in the Scripture as I haue declared before sect 21. But with the Latine word Infornus we haue litle to doe which translate not out of Latine but out of Hebrue or Greeke MART. 33. Nowe then to drawe to a conclusion of this their corruption also in their Englishe translation whereas the Hebrue and Greeke and Latine wordes doe most properly and vsually signifie Hell and both Greeke and Latine interpreters precisely in euerie place vse for the Hebrue worde that one Greeke worde and that one Latine worde which by all custome of speaking writing signifie Hell it had bene the part of sincere and true meaning translatours to haue translated it also in English alwayes by the word Hell and afterward to haue disputed of the meaning thereof whether and when it is to be taken for Hell or graue or lake or death or any such thing As i◠one place they haue done it very exactly indifferently namely when Ionas sayth c. 2. v. 2. out of the Whales belly Out of the belly of hell cryed I and thou heardest my voice So all translate it and well whatsoeuer it signifie in this place They thinke that Hell here signifieth nothing else but the Whales belly and the affliction of Ionas and so the worde may signifie by a Metaphoricall speech as when we say in English It is a hell to liue thus and therefore no doubt they did here translate it so to insinuate that in other places it might as well signifie graue as here the Whales belly FVLK 33. Your conclusion is as good as your premisses because the Greeke and Latine Interpretors had before vs translated amisse which gaue occasion to diuerse errours therefore we also knowing the true signification of the worde muste haue followed them in wrong and doubtfull translation and afterward debated the meaning of the seuerall places But in the margent you tell vs that such Catholikes as haue translated the word Sheol for a graue haue also done amisse Pardon vs M. Martin we take you for no such learned Hebritian that you should controll Pagninus Isidorus Clarius and all other Hebritians of this time vpon suche slender sleeuelesse reasons as you haue brought hetherto And you shewe an intollerable proude stomake that being a man so litle seene in the Hebrue tongue as you shewe your selfe to be you should condemne such graue and learned persons of your owne side of rashnesse or ignorance For you make them in the case of chaunce medley that haue translated sheol a graue Thinke you the deputies of the Councell of Trent had no more discretion in perusing Isidorus Clarius correctiō of the Bible than to suffer him to chaunge life safetie into chance medly and manslaughter you may in time to come if you apply your studie proue learned in that language wherin as yet you are but a smatterer not worthy to be heard against so many so learned so famous professors of the Hebrew tongue Iewes and Christians Protestants and Papistes authors of Grammars Dictionaries and translations But in the second of Ionas it pleaseth you well that our Geneua Bible translateth this word Hell out of the bellie of hell c. but you like not that they shoulde interprete it a metaphoricall Hell or the extremitie of affliction whereinto the Prophet was brought where you make it no doubt what they would insinuate you shew your selfe more bold to affirme than ready or able to proue MART. 34. But then they shoulde haue translated it also hell in other places as they did in this and afterward haue interpreted it graue in their commentaries and not presumptuously to straiten and limite the word of the holy Ghost to their priuate sense and interpretation and to preiudice the auncient learned holy fathers which looke farremore deepely and spiritually into this prophecie than to Ionas or the Whale our Sauiour himselfe also applying it to his owne person and to his being in the hart of the earth three dayes and three nights And therefore S. Hierome sayth This belly of Hell according to the storie is the Whales bellye but it may much better be referred to the persō of Christ which vnder the name of Dauid singeth in the Psalme Thou shalt not leaue my soule in Hell Who was in Hel aliue and free among the dead And that which our Sauiour saith The Sonne of man shall be in the harte of the earth he doth interprete of his soule in hell For as the hart is in the middes of the body so is Hel said to be in the middes of the earth FVLK 34. They haue in other places trāslated it according to the proprietie of the word if in this place they had done so likewise I see not what faulte they had committed Certaine it is that the whales belly did rather resemble a graue wherein Ionas seemed to be buried than hell the receptacle of separated soules It is the office of a translator not so much to regarde what other haue written vpon the place he translateth be they auncient be they godly be they learned as what sense the interpretation of the wordes will beste beare Without preiudice therefore of any mans credite the truth in this case must be sought out That you report out of Hierom vpon this place sheweth that both the Hebrue word sheol and the Latin infernus are not proper peculiar for hel as in other places you tell vs. That S. Hierom interpreteth the saying of Christ Math. 12. v. 40. of his being in the harte of the earth to be meant of his being in hel which is said to be in the middest of the earth it is confuted by the wordes of our Sauiour Christ who sayeth that he shall be there three dayes and three nightes that is all the time of his death which is true of his bodie in the graue but not of his soule in hell for both he sayde he would be that day in Paradise and you your selues holde that he made no tariaunce in hell Beside that it is a phantasticall opinion to limit hell
into the middest of the earth which is rather a place without the sensible worlde than any dungeon within the earth MART. 35. Thus then presupposing as we must that Ionas speaketh in the person of our Sauiour Christ the principall sense is not of the whales belly but of that hell whether our Sauiour Christ descended and from whence he deliuered the fathers of the old Testament him selfe ascending into heauen as their King and generall capitaine before them and opening the way of heauen vnto them as is signified in an other Prophet and was the first that entred heauen FVLK 35. That which Ionas spake was first true of his owne person and then of Christ as Ionas was in this a resemblaunce of him But by this similitude of Christ remaining so many daies and nightes in the harte of the earth as Ionas did in the whales bellie it is manifest that he speaketh of his bodie remaining in the graue not of his soule tarying in hell Wherfore the descending of Christ into Limbus patrum hath no manner of hold eyther of the saying of Christ in the Gospell Math. 12. or of Ionas in his praier Ion. 2. MART. 36. Against all which truthes and euery point thereof these translatours are so watchefull and warie that where the Apostle saith Christ began and dedicated vnto vs the way into heauen they say in their English translations with full consent nothing else bus He prepared Why are they falsâ—â— here than their Maisters Caluin Beza Illyricus who reade Dedicauit Is there nothing in the Greeke word but bare preparation where be these etymologistes now that can straine and wring other wordes to the vttermost aduantage of their heresie and here are content for the like aduantage to dissemble the force of this word which by all vse and propertie signifieth to make new to begin a thing to be the first author to dedicate as S. Augustine might haue taught them and their Lexicons and the Scriptures in many places This translation no doubt is not done sincerely and indifferently of them but for their owne deceitfull purpose as is all the rest When Sainct Paule speaketh of preparation onely they knowe right well that he vseth the vsuall word to prepare as He hath prepared them a city and wheresoeuer is signified preparation onely let them bring vs one example where it is expressed by the other Greeke word which now we speake of FVLK 36. I grauÌ„t the translations had bene more proper and agreable to the Greeke worde to haue said which he hath dedicated or by dedication prepared But here is no fraude against any trueth or errour of yours For the Apostle speaketh not of the way by which we ascend immediatly to heauen but of the way by which we haue free accesse to God through faith without the vailes and ceremonies of the law as it is manifest by his exhortation And whereas you said before that Christ ascending into heaueÌ„ to those whom he had brought out of hell you must tell vs then where they remained all those fortie dayes that were betwene his resurrection and ascention except you will make two ascensions of Christ into heauen one in soule alone the other in bodie soule which hath not bene heard of in the church before For that his soule was first receyued into heauen or Paradise immediatly after his death it proueth not an ascension seeing the same was common to him with other saincts Againe seing the mysterie of our redeÌ„ptioÌ„ is diuided into the death resurrectioÌ„ of Christ and that by his death wee are deliuered from sinnes by his resurrection wee are iustified if you will not allowe his death to haue purchased equall redemption to the fathers of the old Testament and vs but measure the vertue therof by the instance of time in which it was actually performed you must stay your prisoners from entring into the kingdome of heauen at least vntill his resurrectioÌ„ For none can enter into the kingdome of heauen but iustified persons Seing therefore that iustification dependeth vpon his resurrection you must eyther graunt that it was communicated to the fathers in their time before his incarnation or else you must stay them from entring into heauen before they were iustified by his resurrection The place of Micha 2 that you quote is nothing to the purpose of Christes ascending For there the Prophete threateneth the Israelites with the violence of their enimies the Chaldees whome God him selfe would prosper against them to haue the victorie and to driue them into captiuitie MART. 37. But it is of more importaunce which foloweth and appartâ—yning altogither to this controuersie Hebr. 5. v 7. your trauslation is thus in the very English Bible that nowe is reade in your Churches Which in daies of his flesh offered vp prayers with strong crying vnto him that was able to saue him from death and was heard in that which he feared Is the Greeke here In that whiche he feared You know that no Grammar nor Lexicon doth allowe you this translation But eyther thus for reuerence or as one of your owne English Bibles hath it because of his reuerence FVLK 37. Your first quarrel against the truest translation of that word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. 5. is that it sayeth in that which he feared whereas the Greeke is from feare or out of feare which afterwarde you confesse though distant in worde yet to be agreeable in sense The second that in the margent our traÌ„slation is against Christes descending into hell How so I pray you doe you according to your translation expound that worde of Christes descending into hell no verily But we doe expounde it of his descending into hell therefore our translation is to proue Christes descending into hell and if our exposition were not true yet euen your opinion of Christes descent were nothing hindred thereby you wil say that by our expositioÌ„ we exclude his descent after his death we do in deede in such sort as your errour teacheth altogither without the Scripture For if there had bene an historie of Christs going into hell deliuering the Patriarkes and others the faithfull from thence al the EuaÌ„gelists would not haue omitted so notable a matter and that also an article of our beleefe MART. 38. Howe is it then that in your later English Bibles you chaunged your former translation froÌ„ better to worse or who taught you so to translate it for sooth the Heretike Beza whose translation you folow for the most parte in your later Bibles though here in sense rather than in worde And who taught Beza he saith Caluin was the first that euer found out this interpretation And why surely for defense of no lesse blasphemie than this that our Sauiour IESVS Christe vpon the Crosse was horribly afraid of damnation that he was in the very sorrowes and torments of the damned and that this was his descending into
not be true that the lambe was slaine since the beginning of the worlde seeing without violence you can not distract 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the lambe slaine whom it doth immediatly follow MART. 45. But if in points of controuersie betweene vs they will say diuers pointing is of no importance they knowe the contrarie by the example of auncient heretikes which vsed this meane also to serue their false hereticall purpose If they say our vulgar Latine sense pointeth it so let them professe before God and their conscience that they doe it of reuerence to the saide auncient latine text or because it is indifferent and not for any other cause and for this one place we wil admit their answere FVLK 45 We say that wrong pointing may greatly alter the sense but good composition and placing of wordes in a sentence is a good rule to direct pointing where it is either lacking or falsly signed Wee refuse â—ot the testimonie of the vulgar Latine where it agreeth with the truth of the Greeke or Hebrewe yea before God our consciences we reuerence it as a monument of some antiquitie from which wee neither doe nor are willing to dissent except the same dissent from the originall text Otherwise the truth of this assertion that Christ was slaine from the beginning of the world hath not only testimonie of the ancient fathers but also may bee confirmed out of the Scripture For by the obedience of Christ Saint Paule Rom. 5. teacheth that many are iustified meaning all the elect of God who except Christes death had bene effectuall to them before he suffered actually on the crosse must haue gone not into Limbâ— patrum but into hell Diabolorum which is the place appointed for all them that are not iustified freely by the grace of God through the redemption of Christ Iesus whom God before hath set foorth to be a propitiatorie in his bloud Rom. 3. v. 24. c. The title of this chapter threatneth a discouerie of heretical translations against Purgatorie especially but in the whole discourse thereof which is shamefull long one containing 45. sections there is not one place noted against Purgatorie Amphora coepit institui currenâ—e rota cur vrceus exit CHAP. VIII Hereticall translation concerning IVSTIFICATION Martin ABout the article of iustification as it hath many branches and their errours therein bee manifolde so are their English translations accordingly many wayes false and hereticall First against iustification by good workes and by keeping the commaundements they suppresse the very name of iustification in all such places where the woorde signifieth the commandements or the Lawe of God which is both in the olde and newe Testament most common and vsuall namely in the bookes of Moses in the Psalme 118. that beginneth thus Beati immaculati in the Psalme 147. ver 19. 1. Mach. 1. ver 51. and cap. 2. v. 21. Luke 1. v. 6. Rom. 2. v. 26. In all which places and the like where the Greeke signifieth iustices and iustifications most exactly according as our vulgar latine traÌ„slateth iustitias iustificationes there the English translations say iointly with one coÌ„sent ordinances or statuts For example Rom. 2. If the vncircumcision keepe the ORDINANCES of the lawe shall it not bee counted for circumcision And Luc. 1 6. They were both righteous before God walking in all the commaundementes and ORDINANCES of the Lord blamelesse Why translate you it ordinances and auoide the terme iustifications is it because you would followe the Greeke I beseech you is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iust 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be iustified 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iustifications or iustices In the old Testament you might perhappes pretend that you follow the Hebrue word and therefore there you translate statutes or ordinances But euen there also are not the seuentie Greeke interpreters sufficient to teache you the signification of the Hebrue word who alwaies interprete it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in English iustifications Fulke THese matters were driuen so thinne in the first chapter that you shall sooner presse out bloud than any more probable matter For the olde Testament which we translate out of the Hebrue you your selfe doe set foorth our aunswere that we giue the Englishe of Chukim when we say ordinaunces or statutes and not of the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which of the Septuaginta is vsed in the same sense for preceptes and commaundementes as you your selfe confesse cap. 1. sect 50. that verie often in the Scripture it signifieth commaundementes But the Septuaginta you say are sufficient to teache vs the interpretation of the Hebrewe worde who alwaies interprete it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If they had alwayes interpreted it so it is not sufficient to teache vs then there needed none other translation but according to theirs then must you depart from your vulgar translation which in many things departeth from them But where you say they alwaies interprete the Hebrue word Chukim by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is false For Exod. 18. v. 20. they translate it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Praecepta which your vulgar translation calleth Ceremonias ceremonies as it doeth also Gen. 26. v. 5. where the Septuaginta translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by which you see that iustification is not alwayes the Englishe for the Greeke worde which the Septuaginta doe vse Also Num. 9. v. 3. for Chukoth they translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the lawe which the vulgar Latine calleth Ceremonias ceremonies and for the Hebrewe worde Misphatim they giue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comparation the vulgar Latin iustification by which you may see how your traÌ„slatour vseth euen the Latin word that you make so much a do about Likewise in the foureteenth verse of the same Chapter the Septuaginta translate Chukath twise togeather 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and that which the vulgar Latine calleth iustification of the passeouer the Greeke calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the order of the pascall Deut. 4. your vulgar Latine turneth Chukim thrise Ceremonias ceremonies And Deut. 5. twise and Deut. 6. twise Deut. 7. once and so commonly almost in euerie chapter But in the chap. 11. v. 32. the Greeke for Chukim hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where as in the beginning of the chapter he had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Latine in both Ceremonias ceremonies By which it is euident what the Greekes and Latines meant by those wordes chap. 20. for this Hebrue word and in an other the Greeke hath nothing but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 commaundementes So hath he 1. Reg. 2. v. 3. for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 coÌ„mandements Also 1. Reg. 8. v. 58. for Chukim he hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and for Misphatim he hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he hath it twise in the nexte verse where Salomon prayeth that God will defende his cause and the cause of his people Israell
meane not falsely counted worthye but worthye in deede as when it is sayde that Abraham was reputed iust we acknowledge that he was truely so reputed and that he was iuste in deede But where you appeale to our consciences whether to be counted worthy and to be worthy and to deserue and to merite be not all one I answer you plainly and according to my conscience they be not But euen as Abraham was reputed iuste and was iuste in deede not by deserte but by faith so in those three texts the faithful are coūted worthy and are worthy in deede not by their merit and desert but for Iesus Christes sake For herein your heresie is greatly deceaued to imagine that he which is iust by Christ by faith or by imputation is not truely iust or not iust in deed For Christ faith and imputation are not contrary or opposed to truth but to merit or desert of the party that is iust by Christ by faith or by imputation and so we say of them that are accounted worthy for Christes sake and not for their owne merits MART. 15. They whome God doth make worthy they are truely and in deede worthy are they not but by your owne translation of the same word in the actiue voice God doth make them worthy Therefore in the passiue voice it must also signifie to be made or to be in deede worthy For example 2. Thess. 1 11. You translate thus we also praye for you THAT OVR GOD MAY MAKE YOV VVORTHY of this calling According to which translation why did you not also in the selfe same chapter a litle before translate thus That you MAY BE MADE VVORTHY and so be worthy of the kingdome of God for which also you suffer You knowe the case is like in both places and in the Greeke Doctors you specially should knowe by your ostentation of reading them in Greeke that they according to this vse of holy Scripture very often vse also this word both actiuely and passiuely to make worthy and to be made or to be worthy See the Greeke Liturgies FVLK 15. They must needes be worthye whome God maketh worthy but then are they not worthye by their merits or deserts but by his grace in Iesus Christ so our translators meane when they say 2. Thess. 1. 11. that our God may make you worthy of this calling although the clearer translation had bene that God may account you worthy as the vulgar Latine hath vt dignetur For dignor is not to make worthy but to vouchsafe or to account worthy Wherefore you doe vainely here snatch at a word contrary to the meaning both of the translator and of the text For those whom God maketh worthie are not worthie by their desert but by his grace accepting them How the Greeke Doctors vse the word it is not now the question but how it signifieth in the Scripture although I see not how you proue that the doctors vse it to make worthye or to be made worthie by desert MART. 16. Which Sainct Chrysostome to put all out of doubt explicateth thus in other wordes That he make vs worthie of the kingdome of heauen Ser. 1. de orando Deo And vpon the Epistle to Titus cap. 3. in the same sense passiuely God graunt we may all BE MADE VVORTHY or be worthie of the good things promised to thē that loue him And in an other place of the sayed Doctor it must needes signifie to be worthie as when he sayeth In Colos 1. No man liueth such a trade of life that he is worthie of the kingdome but all is his gift For to say thus No man so liueth that he can be counted worthie of the kingdom of heauen is false is against the Protestants owne opinion which say they are coūted worthy that are not Againe to say No man so liueth that he can be made worthie is false because God can make the worst man worthy It remaineth then to say No man so liueth that he is worthie Which a litle before he declareth thus No man by his owne proper merites obtaineth the kingdom of heauen that is as his owne and of him selfe without the grace of God And yet we must shewe further out of the Scriptures that God maketh vs worthie and so we are in deede worthie and here also we must conuince you of false and partiall interpretation FVLK 16. Sainct Chrysostome putteth not the matter any whit out of doubt for your side For he doth not expound this text of 2. Thess. 1. But only in the later end of his Sermon prayeth that God hauing mercie vpon vs all will make vs worthie of his kingdome Where you might haue seene if you had not bene blind with frowardnesse that God maketh vs worthie by his mercie not by our merites That 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his prayer vpon the 3. to Titus is taken to be made worthie rather than to be accounted worthie you haue no proofe but your owne authoritie although for God to make worthy by his mercy to account worthie is all one in effect The third place in Epist. ad Col. cap. 1. is altogither against you Where he sayth no man liueth such a trade of life that he may be iudged or accounted worthie of that kingdome but all is the gift of God Is not his meaning plaine that no man can be accounted worthie by workes or merites but altogither by the grace and gift of God With this distinction therefore which is plaine euen by those wordes which you cite that Chrysostome maketh 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without any inconuenience may signifie in this place to be accounted worthie No man by his owne proper merites obtaineth the kingdom of heauen saith he but euen as a lot is rather by happe chaunce so it is here meaning that God giueth his kingdome no more according to mans desertes than lottes doe fall to men by chaunce which yet God disposeth as it pleaseth him Finally the whole discourse of the Doctor being against mans merites vsing the worde in the same place so often of Gods dignation vouchsafing or accounting worthie you had great scarsitie of examples out of the Doctors that bring this place to proue that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth to be made worthie by merit and not by meere mercie MART. 17. The Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I pray you what doth it signifie ◠you must aunswere that it signifieth not onely meete but also worthie For so Beza reacheth you and so you translate Mat. 3. 11. cap. 8. 1. Cor. 15. 9. I am not worthie in all three places And why I pray you did you not likewise followe the olde Latine interpreter one steppe further saying Giuing thankes to God the father THAT HATH MADE VS VVORTHIE but translating rather thus Which hath made vs meete to be partakers of the inheritance of the Saincts in light Here was the place where you should haue
Paule Ro. 5. v. 19. who maketh it all one to be iustified and to be made iust And againe by this reason that it shoulde bee manifestly repugnant to Gods iustice to account him for iuste that is not iuste and therfore that man in deede is made iust Thus Beza Woulde you not thinke hee were come to bee of our opinion but hee reuolteth againe and interpreateth all these goodly wordes in his olde sense saying Not that any qualitie is inwardly giuen vnto vs of which wee are named iust but because the iustice of Christe is imputed to vs by faith freely By faith then at the least we are truly iustified Not so neither but faith sayth he is an instrument wherewith we apprehende Christ our iustice So that we haue no more iustice in vs than we haue glorie for glorie also we apprehend by faith FVLK 2. Al learned meÌ„ I hope do see that you haue no regarde how vainely you cauil so you may seeme to the ignorant to say somthing against theÌ„ that be godly and learned Act. 13. v. 39. Beza translateth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 absolui that is saith hee to bee declared iust or absolued and giueth this reason why he vseth not the worde iustificaâ—i in that place which he vseth elsewhere Ne quis illud ab omnibus perinde acciperet ac si casus esset modi aut instrumenti per quod iustiâ—icemur id est iustifiamus ac pronunciemur aut pro iustis habeamur hoc quidem loco malui absolueÌ„di verbum vsurpare vt magis perspicua esset oratio Least anie man should take this worde of the texte ab omnibus as though it were the case of the meane or instrument by which we are iustified that is made and pronounced iust or accounted for iuste In this place I chose rather to vse the worde of absoluing that the sentence mighte bee more cleare The Latine ab omnibus may signifie by all things or from all things Therefore leaste anye manne shoulde mistake the Apostle as thoughe hee saide wee are iustified by all those thinges where hee meaneth wee are iustified from all thinges Beza in this place vseth the worde of absoluing or acquitting in the same sense that he doth iustifying in other places where hee speaketh of the same matter and sayeth as plainely as a man can speake that to be iustified and to be made iuste or pronounced or accompted iust beefore God is all one Yet our Momus findeth faulte with him for expounding to be iustified Rom. 2. v. 13. to bee pronounced iuste as thoughe God will pronounce anye man iuste whiche is not iuste indeede But Beza hee saith elsewhere protesteth that to be iustified is not to be pronounced or accompted iuste but rather to be iust indeede If Martin hadde not beelyed Beza we shoulde haue hadde Bezaes wordes sette downe bothe in Latine and Englishe But in truth Beza hath no suche words yet in sense he hath thus muche that to be iustified before God is to be iuste indeede and not to bee onely pronounced or accompted iuste when hee is not so in deede But that wee are made truely iust indeede by the iustice of Christe whiche is imputed vnto vs freely by faith And as for that newe life or iustice whiche is called inhereÌ„t in vs it is not the cause but the witnes of that iustice by imputation of whiche wee are saued folowing him that is iustified and not going before iustification and faith indede is the instrument by which we apprehend Christ our iustice Neither doth Beza say that we are not truely iustified by faith but that faith is not the principall efficient cause which is the mercie of God but the instrumentall cause by whiche wee take holde of the mercie of God in Christe In al this Beza hath said nothing contrarie to himself nor to the truth And it is no absurditie to say that the iustice of Christe by which we are iustified is no more inherent in vs than his glorie And yet both assured vnto vs by faith As for that iustice whiche is an effect of Gods sanctifying spirite and a fruite of our iustification beefore God by whiche also we are iustified or declared iuste beefore men as S. Iames teacheth is inhereÌ„t in vs as also the first fruits of glorification by that peace of coÌ„science ioy that we haue in God being reconciled to vs by Christ. MART. 3. For this purpose bothe hee and the Englishe Bibles translate thus Abraham beleeued God and it was reputed to him FOR IVSTICE Rom. 4. v. 3. 9. Where he interpreateth for iustice to be nothing else but. in the steede place of iustice so also taking away true inherent iustice euen from Abraham himselfe But to admit their translation whiche notwithstanding in their sense is moste false must it nedes signifie not true inherent iustice because the Scripture saith it was reputed for iustice Do such speaches import that it is not so in deede but is onely reputed so Then if wee say This shall be reputed to thee for sinne for a greate benefite and so foorth it shoulde signifie it is no sinne indeede nor great benefite But let them call to mind that the Scripture vseth to speake of sinne and of iustice alike It shal be sinne in thee or vnto thee as they translate Bibl. 1577 or as S. Hierome translateth It shall bee reputed to thee for sinne Deut. c. 23. 24. as themselues translate it shall be righteousnesse vnto thee before the Lord thy God And againe Deut. c. 6. This shall bee our righteousnes before the Lord our God if we kepe al the commaundements as he hath commaunded vs. If then iustice onely be reputed sinne also is onely reputed if sin bee in vâ— indeede iustice is in vs indeede FVLK 3. Our translation taketh not from Abraham true iustice nor yet iustice inherent but declareth that he was not iustified before God by workes that is by iustice inherent but by faith whyche apprehendeth the iustice of Christ whych is altogyther without vs. And therefore you cauil in your olde rotten quarrell when you goe aboute to make reputed to bee contrarie to truthe or indeede Faith was reputed by God to Abraham for iustice indeede but not as iustice inherent And AbrahaÌ„ was truly iustified by faith as by an instrumentall cause not that faith was the iustice by which he was iust in the sight of God excluding all other causes but there was nothing in AbrahaÌ„ but faith which God accompted for iustice But Abrahams faith embraced the mercie of God in the promised seede in whiche as well hee as all the tribes of the earth should be blessed The places of scripture that you cite speaking of sinne iustice alike be not contrary to the imputation of iustice vnto them in which it is not inherent For in neither of both places the holy ghost vseth the word of imputation howsoeuer S. Hierome translateth
and repentance were al one But you saye repentance Also Act. 11. God then to the Gentiles hath giuen repentance to life where the word is poenitentia in both places As also 2. Tim. 2. where you say least sometyme God giue them repentance to knowe the truth Of thys repentance which God giueth vnto life and remission of sinnes withal satisfaction is no parte of publike repentance so called when indeede it was a publike testification that God had giuen inward repentance we acknowledge satisfaction to the Church and to the iudgement of the gouernoures thereof to bee a parte MART. 5. Or I would also aske them whether in these places they will translate repentaunce and amendement of life where there is mentioned a prescript time of satisfaction for their fault by suche and suche penal meanes whether there be any prescript times of repentaunce or amendment of life to continue so long and no longer if not then muste it needes bee translated penaunce and dooing penaunce which is longer or shorter according to the faulte and the maner of dooing the same I maye repent in a moment and amende my life at one instant and this repentaunce and amendement oughte to continue for euer but the holie Councels and Fathers speake of a thing to be done for certaine yeares or dayes and to be released at the Bishoppes discreation this therefore is penaunce and not repentance only or amendment of life and is expressed by the foresaid Greeke wordes as also by * an other equiualent there vnto FVLK 5. I haue aunswered before we may in all these places vse the worde of repentaunce as well as this worde repent the noune as well as the verbe And if we woulde vse the same figure whych they doe that cal suche externall testimonies of repentaunce 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wee might vse the worde of amendment of life also The prescripte time of satisfaction I haue said was to the church which was offended and slaundered by their open offences and to the iudgement of the Byshoppe and Elders whyche hadde the appointing or releasing of suche time of repentance The other Greeke word which you say is aequiualent to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 namely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth to fal downe vnder or knele before one as Tertullian expresseth the phrase praesbyteris aduolui aris dei adgeniculari for one to be caste downe in humble manner before the Elders to kneele before the altars of God Herof 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is vsed for that submission whiche publique penitents did shewe to testifie their inward humilitie and by a metonymie of the signe is taken for that which it doth signifie namely humble and hartie repentaunce whiche is approued before men by such outward gestures and tokens of inwarde griefe and humilitie of minde So is publique fasting in token of repentaunce by Tertullian called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because it is a signe token of humiliation and submission of minde whiche must of necessitie accompany true repentance Wherefore it is vntruly said that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is equiualent with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth to change the minde frrm euil to good wheras the other expresseth but an outwarde gesture to signifie inward repentaunce and that in open repentaunce onely MART. 6. I omit that this very phrase to do penance is word for word expressed thus in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And Ausonius the christian Poet whom I may as wel alleadge once vse it not as they do Virgil Terence the like very often vseth this Greeke worde so euidently in this sense that Beza saith he did it for his verse sake because another worde would not stande so well in the verse But the reader I trust seeth the vse and signification of these Greeke wordes by the testimonie of the Greeke fathers them selues moste auncient and approued FVLK 6. You may well omit that which beareth no credite of antiquitie The Liturgie is not so auncient as he whose name it beareth the Rubrike muche lesse That Beza saith of Ausonius vsing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the sense you meane it seemeth you doe not vnderstande him For he saith that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is neuer vsed but in good parte So that in my iudgement Ausonius would haue said rather 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that his knowen Epigram if the measure of his Pentametre verse would haue borne it MART. 7. Thirdly that the auncient Latine Interpreter doth commonly so translate these wordes through out the newe Testament that needeth no proofe neyther will I stande vpon it though it be greater authoritie than they haue any to the contrary because the Aduersaries know it and mislike it and for that and other like pointes it is belike that one of them saith it is the worst translation of all whereas Beza his Maister saith it is the best of all So well they agree in iudgement the Maister and the man FVLK 7. The Latine interpretor as it appeareth in many places had no perfect vnderstanding of the Greeke tongue but in the Latine it is manifest that hee was very rude in so much that Lindanus thinketh hee was a Grecian rather than a Latinist Yea hee hath a whole chapter thus intituled That the Autors of the vulgar translation of the Psalter and the newe Testament were Grecians Nec latine satis eruditos and not sufficiently learned in the Latine tongue By whiche testimonie it may bee gathered what credite is to bee giuen to the Latine termes that he vseth differing from the Latine phrase vsed by them that are learned in that tongue I could bring example of many termes and phrases that you your self are ashamed to follow which pretende so precise a translation out of the vulgar Latine What my mislike is of that translation and howe contrarie to that which Beza saith thereof I haue opened else where to your shame Onely here I muste tell you that albeit in respect of learning I disdaine not to acknowledge my selfe Bezaes scholler of whom neuerthelesse I haue learned very litle yet I would you should know I am no strangers man though you and such traitors as you are had rather be the Popes men than true seruants to the Queene of England MART. 8. I come to the fourth proofe which is that all the Latine Churche and the glorious Doctors thereof haue alwaies reade as the vulgar Latine interpreter translateth these wordes and expound the same of penance and doing penance To name one or twoo for an example S. Augustines place is very notable which therefore I set downe and may be translated thus Men doe penance before Baptisme of their former sinnes yet so that they be also baptized Peter saying thus DOE YE PENANCE AND LET EVERY ONE BE BAPTISED Men also doe penance if after Baptisme they do so sinne that they deserue to be excommunicated and reconciled
sundrie places againe if one be restrained from the larger signification peculiarly applyed signifie the Sacramentes of the Church the other also As the Sacrament of the bodie and bloud of Christ or the Mysterie of the bodie and bloud of Christ and the Caluinists in their Latine and Greeke Catechisme say two Sacramentes or two Mysteries FVLK 2. The English worde secret signifieth fully as much as the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in which we must seeke no holinesse as papistes doe in vaine sounde of wordes but in the matter annexed which plainely expresseth that it is a great secret of great holines whereof the Apostle speaketh And it is verie false that you say that the Latine worde sacramentum is equiualent to the Greeke for both it signifieth an oth which y e Greke word doth not and also it includeth holinesse which the Greeke worde doth not Or else why sayth not your vulgar translator and you the sacrament of iniquitie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 therefore signifieth euerie secrete sacramentum onely an holy sacrament as when you say Apoc. 17. the sacrament of the woman the meaning is the secret to be reuealed concerning her is an holy thing else in the same chapter you haue not a sacrament written in her forheade but a mysterie or secret Babylon the mother of abhominations That the sacramentes are called mysteries we confesse but that whatsoeuer is called a mysterie may also be called a sacrament that doe we vtterly denie MART. 3. This being so what is the fault of their translation in the place aforesaide this that they translate neither Sacrament nor Mysterie As for the worde Sacrament they are excused because they translate not the Latine but translating the Greeke why sayde they not Mysterie which is the Greeke worde heere in the Apostle I meane why sayde they not of matrimonie This is a great Mysterie No doubt there can be no other cause but to auoide both those wordes which are vsed in the Latin and Greeke Church to signifie the Sacramentâ—s For in the Greeke Church the Sacrament of thâ— bodie bloud it self is called but a mystery or mysteries which yet the ProtestaÌ„ts themselues call a true Sacrament Therfore if they shold haue called Matrimonie also by that name it might easily haue sounded to be a Sacrament also But in saying it is a great secret they put it out of doubt that it shall not be so taken FVLK 3. Seeing the word secrete y t we vse signifieth wholy as much as mysterie we hope all reasonable men wil allow y e same also Sacrament without preiudice to y e trueth we could not translate and mysterie for the better vnderstanding of the people we haue expressed in the English worde secrete Out of which if it haue any force of argument in it you may proue matrimonie to be a sacrament as well as out of the Greeke worde mysterie But it is the sounde of an vnknowen worde that you had rather play vpon in the eares of the ignorants then by any sound argument out of y e scripture to bring them to the knowledge of the trueth MART. 4. They will say vnto mee Is not euerie sacrament mysterie in english a secrete Yes as Angel is a messenger Apostle one that is sent But when the holy Scripture vseth these words to signifie more excelleÌ„t diuine things then those of the common sort doth it become translators to vse baser termes in steede therof so to disgrace the writing meaning of the holy Ghost I appeale to themselues when they translatâ— this word in other places whether they say not thus And wtout doubt great was y t MYSTERIE of godlines God was shewed manifestly in y e flesh c. againe The MYSTERIE which haue bin hid since y e world began but now is opened to his saincts againe I shew you a MYSTERIE we shal not al sleep but we shal all be changed And the like Where if they should traÌ„slate secret in steed of mysterie as the Bezites do in one of these places saying I wil shew you a secret thing what a disgracing debasing were it to those high mysteries there signified And if it were so in these is it not so in matrimonie which the Apostle maketh such a mysterie that it representeth no lesse mater then Christ his Church whatsoeuer is most excellent in that coniunctioÌ„ Noâ—then if in all other places of high mysterie they translate it also mysterie as it is in the Greeke only in Matrimonie do not so but say rather This is a great secret vsing so base a terme in so high excellent a mysterie must we not needs thinke at no dout it is that they do it because of their heretical opinioÌ„ against the SacrameÌ„t of Matrimony for their base estimation therofâ— FVLK 4. Nowe you flie to your old shift of y e ecclesiastiall vse of termes which you cannot proue to be like of this English word mysterie which is coÌ„moÌ„ly as prophanely secularly vsed as any other word For what is more coÌ„mon among artificers thaÌ„ their science or mystery of weauing of dying such like And yet the word may be vsed of the highest secrets of Christian ReligioÌ„ as it is of our translators And wheresoeuer they haue said a mysterie they might as truely haue saide a secret where they say a secrete they might haue said a mysterie But wher you say y t in al other places of high mystery they translate y e word mysterie it is false For Mat. 13. Mark the 4. Luk. the 8. where all y e mysteries of the kingdome of God are spokeÌ„ of they translate mysteria the secrets of y e kingdome of heauen 1. cor 4. where the sacraments al other secrets of Christian Religion are spokeÌ„ of they translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 stewards of y e mysteries of God Wherefore it is a shamefull and senselesse slander that heere only we vse this word secret to shew our base estimation of matrimonie MART. 5. But they wil yet reply againe aske vs what we gaine by translating it either Sacrament or mysterie Doth that make it one of the Sacramentes properly so called to wit such a Sacrament as Baptisme is no surely but howsoeuer wee gaine otherwise at least we gaine the coÌ„mendation of true translators whether it make with vs or against vs. For otherwise it is not the name that maketh it such a peculiar Sacrament For as is said before Sacrament is a generall name in Scripture to other thinges Neither do we therefore so translate it as though it were foorthwith one of the seuen Sacraments because of the name but as in other places wheresoeuer we finde this word in the Latine we translate it Sacrament as in the Apocalipse the sacrament of the woman so finding it heere we doe heere also so translate it and as for the diuerse taking of it heere and else where that
They wil say the first Hebrewe word can not be as Saint Hierome translateth and as it is in the Greeke and as all antiquitie readeth but it muste signifie Let vs destroy They say truely according to the Hebrewe word which now is But is it not euident thereby that the Hebrewe worde nowe is not the same which the Septuaginta translated into Greekeâ— and S. Hierom into Latine and consequently the Hebrue is altered and corrupted from the originall copie which they had perhaps by the Iewes as some other places to obscure this prophecie also of Christes Passion and their crucifying of him vpon the Crosse. Such Iewish Rabbines and new Hebrue words do our newe maisters gladly folow in the translation of the olde Testament whereas they might easily conceyue the old Hebrue worde in this place if they would employ their skill that way and not onely to nouelties For who seeth not that the Greeke Interpreters in number 70. and al Hebrues of best skill in their owne tongue S. Hierom also a great Hebrician did not reade as now wee haue in the Hebrue Nashchîta but Nashitha or Nashlîcha Againe the Hebrue worde that now is doth so litle agree with the wordes folowing that they cannot tell how to translate it as appeareth by the diuersitie and difference of their translations thereof before mentioned and transposing the wordes in English otherwise than in the Hebrue neither of both their translations hauing any commodious sense or vnderstanding FVLK 19. If we shoulde acknowledge the Hebrue word to be altered in so many places as the 70. departe from it we should not only condemne the Hebrue text that now is in many places but your vulgar Latine text also the translator whereof differing oftentimes from the Greeke followeth the truth of the Hebrue or at least commeth nearer vnto it Your argument of the number of the 70. interpreters al Hebrewes is very ridiculous childish Hierom him selfe will laugh you to skorne in it who acknowledged for certaintie no more than the bookes of the lawe translated by them And Lindanus proueth manifestly vnto you that some partes of the old Testament in Greeke which wee now haue are not the same that were counted the 70. translation in the auncient fathers time Whether Hierom in this place did consider the Hebrue text we know not for he doth not as his manner is shew the diuersitie of the Hebrue and the Septuaginta in this chapiter beside he professeth great breuitie intreating vpon so long a Prophete But whether a letter in this word haue bene altered or no or whether it were corrupt in the copie which the Greeke translater and Hierom did reade for the true or simple sense thereof there is no great difference No nor for that sense which Hierom bringes which although it seemeth to be farre from the Prophets meaning yet it may haue as good ground vpon the worde Naschita as vpon the worde Nashlicha MART. 20. But yet they will pretende that for the first worde at the least they are not to be blamed because they folow the Hebrue that now is Not considering that if this were a good excuse then might they as well folowe the Hebrue that now is Psal. 21. v. 18 and so vtterly suppresse and take out of the Scripture this notable prophecie They pearced my hands and my feete Which yet they do not neither can they doe it for shame if they will be counted Christians So that in deede to folow the Hebrue sometime where it is corrupt is no sufficient excuse for them though it may haue a pretence of true translation and we promised in the preface in such cases not to call it hereticall translation FVLK 20. To this cauill against the certaine truth of the Hebrue texte I haue sufficiently answered in my confutation of your preface Sect. 44. shewing that the true reading of this word as Felix PrateÌ„sis Ioannes Isaak Tremelius and other do acknowledge is still remayning and testified by the Mazzorites MART. 21. But concerning the B. Sacrament let vs see once more how truely they folow the Hebrue The holy Ghost saith S. Cyprian ep 63. nu 2. by Salomon foresheweth a type of our Lordes sacrifice of the immolated host of bread wine saying Wisedome hath killed her hostes SHE HATH MINGLED HER WINE INTO the cuppe Come ye eate of my bread and drinke the wine that I HAVE MINGLED for you Speaking of WINE MINGLED saith this holy doctor he foresheweth prophetically the cuppe of our Lorde MINGLED WITH WATER AND WINE So doth S. Hierom interprete this mixture or mingling of the wine in the chalice so doth the author of the commentaries vpon this place among S. Hieroms workes so doe the other fathers So that there is great importance in these propheticall wordes of Salomon She hath mingled her wine into the cuppe and the wine which I haue mingled as being a manifest prophecie of Christes mingling water and wine in the Chalice at his last supper which the Catholike Churche obserueth at this day and whereof S. Cyprian writeth the foresaide long epistle FVL. 21. It had bene to be wished that S. Cyprian when he goeth aboute to proue the necessitie of wine in the celebration of the Lordes supper agaynst the Heretikes called Aquarij that contended for onely water had retained the precise institution of Christe in wine onely which the Scripture mencioneth and not allowed them a mixture of water and for that purpose driuen him selfe to suche watrie expositions as this of Prouerbes 9. which without good warrant he draweth to represent the Lordes supper Where if hee had bene vrged by the aduersaries whereto the beastes slayne were referred in this Sacrament hee muste haue bene driuen to some violent comment But whereto tendeth this preparation MART. 22. But the Protestants counting it an idle superstitious ceremonie here also frame their translation accordingly suppressing altogither this mixture or mingling and in steede thereof saying Shee hath drawen her wine and drinke the wine that I haue drawen or as in other of their Bibles Shee hath powred out her wine and the wine which I haue powred out neither translation agreing either with Greeke or Hebrue Not with the Greeke which doth euidently signifie mingling and mixture as it is in the Latine and as al the Greeke Church from the Apostles time hath vsed this word in this very case whereof wee nowe speake of mingling water and wine in the chalice S. Iames and S. Basil in their Liturgies expresly testifying that Christ did so as also S. Cyprian in the place alleaged S. Iustine in the end of his second Apologie calling it of the same Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is according to Plutarche wine mingled with water likewise S. Irâ—neus in his fifth booke neere the beginning See the sixth generall Councell most fully treating hereof and deducing it from the Apostles and auncient fathers and interpreting
readeth FVLK 4. If the Apostle had meant nothing by the preposition he might and would as it is most like haue left it cleane out yea if he had meant no more but the adoration of Iosephs scepter what needed he to haue added the toppe or the extremitie or why was the top of his scepter more to be adored than all the other length of it But certayne it is the Apostle would expresse the Hebrewe preposition which muste needes haue some signification And where you aske them that haue skill in the Hebrewe whether there be any force in the preposition in those sayings out of the Psalme that speake of worshipping or falling downe before his footestoole his holye hill c. I aunswere yea there is great force for the hill was not to be worshipped but he whose tabernacle or temple was on it But you obiect that we our selues neglect the preposition Psal. 96. and say worship the Lord. The fault is the lesse because the worship is referred to none but the Lorde yet the precise translation in that place should be bowe downe or fall ye downe before the Lorde in the glorious sanctuarie And where you say we shunne the worde of adoration which the Hebrew and Greeke duely doe expresse by termes applyed for the most part signifie adoring of creatures You haue packed vp a great number of vntruthes togither as it were in a bundell First that we shunne the terme of adoring for doubt of your Dulia which is vtterly vntrue for it is auoyded partly because it is more Latine than English partly because it doth not expresse either the Greeke or the Latine termes which the Scripture vseth Secondly you auouch that both the Hebrew lishtachauoth and the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whereas all that be learned in both the tongues doe know that the Hebrew worde doth signifie properly to bowe downe and therefore is vsed of such bowing downe as is not to the ende of adoration as Psalme 42. v. 5. 6. Why art thou cast downe O my soule and in diuers other places The Greeke word also signifieth to vse some gesture of bodie in worshipping sometimes to fall downe as Herodotus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they must worship the King falling downe before him Finally where you say they are applied to the adoring of creatures if you cal it adoration which is vsed in ciuil manner to Princes and other persons of authoritie I graunt it is often so applyed but if you meane of religious adoration it is expresly forbidden to any creature or Image of creature by the second commaundemēt in the Hebrue terme and by the wordes of our Sauiour Christ to the Deuill Math. 4. In the Greeke worde Thou shalt worship the Lorde thy God and him onely shalt thou serue Where Sathan desired not to bee worshipped as God with diuine honour but that our Sauiour Christe would fal downe before him and worship him as an excellēt minister of God to whom the dispositiō of all the kingdomes of the world as he falsly said were by God committed Luk. 4. v. 6. which vtterly ouerthroweth your bold distinction of Dulia and Latria seeing it was that which you call Dulia that the Deuill required but our Sauiour Christe telleth him that all religious worship and seruice pertaineth onely to God Touching the adoration of Gods footestoole I haue spoken sufficiently before Cap. 1. Sect. 41. MART. 5. This being most manifest to all that haue skill in these tongues it is euident that you regard neither Hebrue nor Greeke but only your heresie and that in S. Paules place aforesaid of adoring Iosephs scepter you alter it by your owne fansie and not by S. Augustines authoritie whom I am sure you will not admit reading in the Psalme Adore yee his footestoole and so precisely and religiously reading thus that he examineth the case and findeth thereby that the B. Sacrament must be adored and that no good Christian doth take it before he adore it Neither will you admitte him when he readeth thus of Dauid He was caried in his owne handes and interpreteth it mystically of Christ that he was caried in his owne handes when he gaue his body and bloud to his Disciples Yet are S. Augustines interpretations how so euer you like or mislike thē very good as also that aboue named of Iacobs leaning vpō his staffe adoring may be one good sense or cōmētarie of that place but yet a cōmentarie one Doctors opiniō not the sacre text of Scripture as you wold make it by so trāslating FVLK 5. Let Pagnine for the Hebrew word the Greeke Lexicons for the other be iudge betwene vs. For you are the most impudent aduoucher I thinke that euer became a writer That we leane to Augustines iudgement in this case it is not because we make him an author of truth but a witnesse of the same against such venemous tongues and pennes as yours is that call euery thing hereticall that sauoureth not of your owne drowsie dreames of antichristian heresie Neither is it reason that by vsing the testimonie of Augustine where he beareth witnesse to the truth we should be bound to euery interpretation of his when he declineth therefro Where you say that by adoring the footestoole of God he findeth that the blessed Sacrament must be adored you say vntruly he gathereth that Christes humanitie or body must be adored but not the blessed Sacrament thereof Likewise when he sayth vpon a feeble ground of a false interpretation that Christ was carried in his owne hands in the Sacrament he affirmeth it not so absolutely as you alledge it but quodam modo after a certaine maner he bare himselfe in his handes when he saide this is my bodie Yea in that place Augustine as in many other declareth his iudgement that he acknowledged not the corporall maner of presence and eating of Christes bodie in the sacrament for whych you Papistes so greatly contend that you ate content to make so many senses of the scripture it declareth that you acknowlege none certaine and so derogate al credite and authoritie from the word of God which may haue so many meanings as there be diuers doctors that haue commented vppon it Whereas diuers interpretations may haue al a true sense but it is impossible that they should al be senses of the same Scripture MART. 6. And if S. Hierome like not the Greke doctors interpretation in this place of adoring Ioseph and his scepter yet he also saith that Iacob adored toward Iosephs rodde or toward the beddes heade and not leaning vpon his staffe hee adored which you make the texte of Scripture And thoughe he thinke that in this place is not meant any adoration of Ioseph yet I am sure for adoration of holie things namely Reliques the holie lande and al the holie places and monuments of Christs being and doing vpon the earth you wil not bee tryed by S. Hierome And againe why S. Paule should say that by faith
translate another thing without any necessary pretence of Hebrewe or Greeke and here you would haue it of the necessitie of the Hebrew that we should translate a teacher yet Pagnine in the roote 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wherevnto you referre vs saith that Esay the 30. verse 20. this word is taken either for raine or for a teacher Ioel the 2. hee maketh no question but it signifieth raine sauing that some thinke it to be the name of a place In the thirde place Psalme 84. after he hath tolde you how Hierome translateth it hee telleth you how R. Dauid and other doe translate it for raine as wee doe and in al these places the sense is more proper for raine than for a teacher sauing that in Esay perhappes it may signifie more aptly a teacher and so the Geneua translation noteth it In Ioel where the Prophet before hadde threatened famine through drought nothing is so conuenient to bee vnderstoode as seasonable raine In the Psalm 84. where the Prophet commendeth the courage of the people that trauailed to Ierusalem through the drie desarts and places that wanted water it is moste apte to vnderstand that God filleth their pits with raine for their comfort This how cold soeuer it is counted of you that care not whereon faith shoulde be grounded yet is it an hundred times more comfortable to a godly conscience that desireth to bee established in trueth than anye violent wresting of the Scripture from the true and naturall sense to anye other interpretation how good in shew soeuer it be MART. 6. And againe where S. Hierom translateth and the Church readeth and all the fatheâ—s interprete and expound accordingly There shal be faith in thy times to expresse the maruelous faith that shall be then in the first Christians specially euen vnto death and in all the rest concerning the hidden mysteries of the newe Testament there you translate There shal be stabilitie of thy times The Prophete ioyneth togither there iudgement iustice faith wisedome knowledge the feare of our Lord you for a litle ambiguitie of the Hebrue worde turne faith into stabilitie FVLK 6. The word stabilitie Esai 33. v. 6. excludeth not faith but sheweth wherein faith is grounded And therefore this is as all the reste a fonde quarrel without any good grounde at all Seing our translation may stande with the truth of the wordes and of the matter and comprehendeth as much as you would haue and more also Yea it sheweth that faith is setled vpon stabilitie and stedfastnesse of truth which shall flourish in the time of Christ. MART. 7. If I should burden you with translating thus also concerning Christ Cease from the man whose breath in his nostrels for wherein is he to be esteemed You would say I did you wrong because it is so pointed now in the Hebrue Wheras you know very wel by S. Hieroms commentarie vpon that place that this is the Iewes pointing or reading of the worde against the honour of Christe the true reading and translation being as he interpreteth it for he is reputed high and therefore beware of him Otherwise as S. Hierom saith what a consequence were this or who would commend any man thus Take heede ye offende not him who is nothing esteemed yet that is your translation Neyther doth the Greeke helpe you which if the accent be truely put iâ— thus because he is reputed for some body or some thing as S. Paule speaketh of the chiefe Apostles and it is our phrase in the commendation of a man FVLK 7. So long as you acknowledge wee haue translated truely according to the Hebrue texte that we reade there is no reason that you should burden vs with false interpretation The Septuaginta as Hierome confesseth did reade as we doe and plaine it is not oneliâ— by the vowels but also by the contexte that so it muste be read For the Prophet disswadeth the people from putting affiance in any mortall man for God wil bring downe the pride of all suche as they truste moste in as it followeth in the next chapiter whereof this verse should be the beginning The dismembring whereof by the ill diuision of the Chapiter deceiued Hierome to think the Prophet spake of Christe when he spake of a prowd man whose breath was in his nostrels and therefore he was of no strength euen as Dauid vseth the same argument Psalme 146. for the purpose The Chaldee Paraphrase also did reade euen as the Septuaginta MART. 8. The like excuse you woulde haue by alleadging the Hebrue vowels if you were told that you much obsâ—ure a notable saying of the prophet concerning Christ or rather the speach of Christe himselfe by his prophete saying I haue spoken by the Prophets and I haue multiplied vision and in the hand of the Prophets that is by the Prophets haue I beene resembled Which later words do exceedingly expresse that al the Prophets spake of Christ as oâ—r Sauiour himself declareth beginning from Moyses and al the Prophetes to interprete vnto the two disciples the things that concerned him as S. Petâ—r saith in these words Al the prophets from Samuel and that spake after him didde tell of these daies This prophecie then being so consonant to these speaches of the â—ewe Testament the Greeke also being word for word so the Hebrewe by changing one little pricke whyche the latter Iewes haue added at their owne pleasure being fully so as wee â—eade with the Catholike Church why pretend you the Iewes authoritie to maintaine an other lesse Christian translation whiche is thus I vse similitudes by the ministerie of the Prophetes as though there were nothing there concerning Christ or the second person peculiarly FVLK 8. Seeing our Sauiour Christ hath promised that neuer a pricke of the lawe shall perishe wee may vnderstande the same also of the Prophets who haue not receiued the vowels of the latter Iewes but euen of the Prophets themselues howsoeuer that heathenish opinion pleaseth you and other Papistes MART. 9. You wil also perhaps alleadge not onelye the later Iewes but also some later Catholike men that so translate the Hebrewe But the difference betweene them and you is that they with reuerence and preâ—erment alwaies of S. Hiâ—roms and the Churches aâ—â—â—ient translation tel vs how it is nowe in the Hebrewe you with derogation and disanulling the same altogâ—ther set downe your owne as the onlie true interpretation according to the Hebrewe aâ—ouching the Hebrewe that nowe iâ— and as now it is printed to be the only authenti cal truth of the olde Testament Where you can neuer answere vs howe that in the Ps. 22. As a lion my hand and my feete as now it is in the Hebrewe can be the true and old authentical Hebrewe whiche none of the fathers knewe the auncient Rabbines condemne as a corruption your selues translate it not but after the olde accustomed reading They haue pierced my handes my feete
you to proue Forsooth that his aduersaries do confesse all the olde fathers to be on their side and to haue erred with them as Fulke doth of S. Ambrose Austen Tertullian Origen Chrysostom Gregorie and Bede by name with most reprochefull and contemptuous words against them This is spoken generally as though we confesse all the doctors to bee on their side in euery controuersie which we doe not acknowledge to be true in any one although many of the later sort do in some part fauour one or two errours of theirs among an hundreth But let vs examine his prooues which seeme to be verie plentifull yet of nine quotations I must needes strike out two page 306. and 279. because in them is not one syllable of my writing but all of Allens In the pages 315. 316. is nothing more contained touching this matter than I haue alreadie declared There remaineth nowe page 349. where I say touching a rule of S. Augustine which hee giueth to trie faith and doctrine of the Church onely by the scripture that if he had as diligently followed it in examining the common error of his time of prayer for the dead as he did in beating downe the schisme of the Donatistes or the heresie of the Pelagians hee woulde not so blindly haue defended that which by holy scripture he was not able to maintaine as he doeth in that booke De Cura pro mortuis agenda and else where What most reprochefull or contemptuous wordes are here against S. Augustine Seeing the holie scripture is a light shining in a darke place as S. Peter sayeth who so goeth without it must walke blindly which I say in commendation of the light of the scripture not in contempt of Augustines reason whome as I may not honour with contempt of the trueth so when he is a patrone maintainer of the truth I honour him from my heart Likewise page 78. Saint Ambrose is named but nothing acknowledged to fauour any popish errour Augustine is againe noted speaking of the amending fire whereof he hath no ground but in the common errour of his time and whereof he affirmeth sometimes that it is a matter that may bee doubted of sometimes that there is no third place at all Wherefore this place hath neither reprochful wordes nor confession of any constant opinion of Augustine inclining to your errours Then let vs passe to the next place which is page 435. where concerning this matter I haue written thus I denie that any of the auncient fathers in Christs time or scholers to his Apostles or within one or two hundreth yeares after Christ except one that had it of Montanus the heretike as he had more things beside in any one word maintained your cause for purgatorie or prayers for the dead Secondly of them that maintained prayers for the dead the most confessed they had it not out of the scriptures but of tradition of the Apostles and custome of the church therefore they are not to be compared vnto vs in better vnderstanding of the scriptures for that point which they denyed to be receiued of the scriptures Thirdly those of the auncient fathers that agreed with you in any part of your assertion for none within 400. yeares was wholly of your errour notwithstanding manie excellent gifts that they had yet maintained other errors beside that and about that diffented one from another and sometime the same man from himselfe and that is worst of all from manifest truth of the holy scriptures Therefore neither is their erronious interpretation in this matter to be receiued nor M. Allens wise iudgement of vs to bee regarded Here also I appeale to the iudgement of indifferent readers what confession I haue made of the fathers to be on their side or what reprochefull or contemptuous wordes I haue vsed against them for dissenting from vs. The next place is quoted page 247. where I say against Allen boasting of auncient testimonies for prayer for the dead I will not denie but you haue much drosse and dregges of the later sort of doctors the later the fuller of drosse But bring me any worde out of Iustinus Martyr Irenaeus Clemens Alexandrinus or any that did write within one hundreth yeares after Christ that aloweth prayer or almes for the dead I will say you are as good as your word Here except he will cauil that I acknowledge much drosse and dregs to be in the later sort of doctors I knowe not what hee findeth that hath any shadowe of his slander But the trueth must be confessed that the pure waters of life are to be founde onely in the worde of God and beside that the best and purest liquors that are to bee seene are not cleare from all dregges and drosse of humane error and frailtie In the next page Origen deliuered from the shamefull mangling of Allens allegation is shewed plainly to be an enimie of purgatorie prayer for the dead in that he affirmeth the day of a Christian mans death to be the ende of all sorrowe and the beginning of all felicitie There remaineth nowe the last place quoted page 194. where I acknowledge that Gregorie Bernard Bede vpon the text Matth. 12. are of opinion that sinnes not remitted in this world may be remitted in the world to come But how happeneth it say I that Chrysostome Ieronyme which both interpreted that place could gather no such matter although they otherwise allowed prayer for the dead The reason must needes be because the errour of purgatorie growing so much the stronger as it was neerer to the full reuelation of Antichrist Gregorie and Bede sought not the true meaning of Christ in this scripture but the confirmation of their plausible error Here is all the confessions most reprochefull contemptuous wordes that are conteined in so manie of those places as he hath quoted in which I will not tarrie to rehearse how manie vntruthes he hath vttered against mee but wish the indifferent reader to consider that if he be so bolde to slander mee concerning a booke printed in English by which he may be conuinced of euerie simple reader what dare he not aduouch of matters done and past at Rome whither none may trauell to trie out his tretcherie but he is in manifest danger neuer to returne the answere of his message From this Popish Parson whatsoeuer his name be I must passe to another gentleman namelesse in deede but not blamelesse yea much more blame worthie than the other who among so manie and so great flanders as it is wonder howe they could bee conueyed into so small a booke against our prince her lawes her councellors her iudges her officers the nobilitie the comminaltie the church the gouernors the pastors the people thereof against all states persons of the land in whome there is religion towardes God ioyned with dutie towarde their prince and countrie hath founde yet some emptie corners where he might place me in particular And
first of all page 46. of his Latine Epistle after he hath described the manner of quartering vsed in the execution of traytors and most impudently flandered the officers of Iustice to make such haste in cutting downe the Papistes which are hanged as they vse not in punishment of other traytours to the ende they might satisfie their cruel minds in their torments which is proued false by manie thousand eye witnesses that haue not lightly seene any of them reuiue with any sense of their paynes except one Storie who also did hang so long before he was cut downe that it was great wondering to manie to see him so soone recouered not onely in life but also in strength At length he commeth in his tragical manner to inueigh against the crueltie of their aduersaries whome this cruell sight doth nothing at all moue to pitie but they laugh and make sport at it and insult against them that are a dying But especially saieth hee if any ouercome with paine hath giuen foorth any groning which yet happeneth most seldome so one of them no meane preacher in a certeine imprinted booke doeth gather that ours are not true martyrs because one of them as he himselfe affirmeth gaue foorth a certaine howling as of an helhound that I may vse his owne wordes O sentence worthie of a preacher O new charitie of the new gospel What ruffinaly theefe at any time hath not blushed to vtter such a voice What murtherer did euer shewe a minde so cruell and barbarous This froth of wordes I might easily match with like rhetoricall exclamations O impudent lyer O shamelesse slanderer O trayterous backbyter c. But I had rather beat it downe with trueth of matter Bristowe in his booke of Motiues maketh Martyrs his 15. Motiue Among whome hee commendeth as well for the goodnes of their cause as also for their patient suffering The good Earle of Northumberland I vse his owne traiterous wordes Storie Felton Nortons Woodhouse Plomtree and so manie hundreths of the Northeren men whome approued by miracles vndoubted he opposeth against Foxes martyrs as he calleth them Against this traiterous commendation of open rebels and traitors among other things thus I haue written Retent page 59. Seeing not the paine but the cause maketh a martyr whosoeuer haue suffered for treason and rebellion may well be accounted Martyrs of the popish church but the church of Christ condemneth such for enimies of Christes kingdome and inheritours of eternall destruction except they repent and obteine mercie for their horrible wickednesse And seeing patient suffering is by Bristowes owne confession a gift of God vnto all true martyrs such as were manifestly voyde of patience can be no true martyrs as were most of these rebels and traitors and Storie by name who for all his glorious tale in the time of his most deserued execution by quartering was so impatient that he did not onely roare and crye like an helhound but also strake the executioner doing his office and resisted as long as strength did serue him being kept downe by three or foure men vntill he was dead O patient martyr of the popish church What cause had this slaunderous spirite vppon these my wordes to make such hydeous outcryes what theefe what ruffian what murderer or what matter is ministred in this my saying to accuse all the aduersaries of Papistes in England of such barbarous crueltie We are not so voide of humanitie but we lament y e miserie euen of our greatest most graceles enimies but yet wee are not so voide of vnderstanding to acknowledge impatient suffering to bee true martyrdome no not if the cause were neuer so good Not that wee thinke true martyrs to be voide of sense and feeling of their torments or that they may not testifie their paines euen with teares and strong crying sometimes but that there is a great difference between the crying of patient martyrs vnto God for strength comfort and the brutish roaring of impatient sufferers expressed only with paine and torment as was this of Storie who vttered no voice of prayer in all that time of his crying as I heard of the verie executioner himselfe beside them that stoode by but onely roared and cryed as one ouercome with the sharpnes of the paine as no martyr is whome God is faithfull to deliuer out of temptation so that although they haue neuer so great sense of their torment yet are they neuer ouercome thereby But peraduenture this orator for the popish traytors wil take me vp for concluding against Storie that he did not pray because no voice of prayer was heard to come from him as though I could not consider that he was immediatly before strangled so that the passage of his voice might be stopped that albeit that roaring were his prayer yet it might not bee vnderstood by them which heard it In deede if there had beene no other signe of his impatiencie but his crying I would not haue beene bolde to haue iudged therof and made him an example of impatiencie as I did But what patient martyr euer strake his tormentor Who praying for his persecutors would striue to buffet and beat them What man submitting himselfe to the will of God in his suffering would resist the executioners that he might not suffer yea when there was no remedie but he must suffer except God for his crueltie shewed against his patient saints had not onely giuen him a taste of such torments as he procured to others but also made him an open spectacle of the impatient vncomfortable state of them that suffer not in a good cause and with a good conscience By this it is manifest how honestly this proctor of the persecuted Papistes reporteth that vpon a litle groning I gather that hee was no true martyr and further rayleth as his facultie well serueth him The like honest dealing and trueth is shewed in the English translation of this pamphlet toward the latter ende where hee speaketh of certaine imprisoned pyned with famine at Yorke There in the margent Fulke is placed as though he had beene author or executer of some persecution at Yorke neere to which citie he neuer came by 40. miles But this will be excused perhaps by the printers fault because it is not mentioned in the Latine Howsoeuer it be it argueth a lying and a slaunderous stomack of the setters foorth of this treatise that would suffer so open and so apparent a slander to passe vncorrected being in such a place where it could not escape their sight and knowledge But the storie of the conference at Wisbich is a worthie matter wherein not onely this rhetoritian but also the confuter of M. Charke if they be not both one Parson as I gesse they be haue thought good to exercise their stile The trueth whereof is this as it is easie to be prooued in euery respect by sufficient testimonies It pleased the Lordes and other of her maiesties councell after those obstinate recusantes
reproueth others for intemperate speech there is nothing more in substance but that I did set foorth that pamphlet in mine owne commendation and I attempted the matter without authoritie wherein without all rhetorike I must tell him plainely hee lyeth impudently As for the disputation he sayth they haue sued for in seditious maner and for a purpose of seditioÌ„ by Campion their valiant champion for other suite they cannot prooue that euer they made or by any other meanes that euer I hearde of howe like it is they would sewe for it we may knowe by this that they would not accept it when it was offered and howe well it was discharged by Campion their lusty chalâ—nger when he could not refuse it there be many both wise and learned witnesses that can testifie to the reproofe of such impudent reportes as haue beene bruted in popish pamphlets by ignorant asses to whom their owne champion is so litle beholding that they haue for the most part made his answere a great deale more absurde and further from shewe of learning than in deede it was But if you be so sharpe set vpon disputation as you pretende why doth neuer a papist of you all aunswere my chalenge made openly in print to all learned papists almost three yeere ago set before my Retentiue against Bristowes Motiues wherein you may expresse what you haue in mainteinaunce of your opinion without suite without danger and to the best and surest try all of the trueth But nowe it is time to come to other cauilles of this syrly censurer They are of two sorts the one concerning wordes the other touching matter I will beginne first with the wordes and as neere as I can readily finde them I wil quote the places of my bookes where I haue vsed them And letting the reader see what cause moued mee sometimes to such vehement termes I referre it to his iudgement whether I haue passed the bondes of modestie or equitie yea or nay First he chargeth me with a ruffianlike spirite because I say to Allen Shewe me Allen if thou canst for thy guttes pag. 241. In that place I answere to Allen which scornefully biddeth the Papistes say vnto vs M. Protestant let me haue sight of your onely fayth I would be of that religion c. that Iames calleth pure and vnspotted c. Whiles he requireth a sight of our fayth by our good workes I aunswere that because the tryall of singular persons is vncertaine and vnpossible let vs consider the whole states Then followeth Shewe me if thou canst for thy guttes or name any popish citie that hath made such prouision for the fatherlesse and widowes as the citie of London c. What speech is heare like a ruffian Except the delicate censurer cannot abide to heare Allens guts named but he thinketh it russianlike as though he had neuer hearde of these phrases ruparis licet non si te ruperis inquit rumpantur ut ilia Codro In which sauing the authoritie of this noble censurer no wise man did euer conceiue any ruffianlike spirite It sauoureth a great deale more of a ruffianlike spirite that himselfe abuseth the phrases of the holie Ghost to scorning and scoffing as heare in the margent Doctor Fulkes tallent in rayling and pag. 50. Luthers lying with a nunne in the lord who but an atheist would not abhor to speake so But let vs examine what rayling he hath noted out of my Retentiue against Bristowes Motiues First leaud Losell and vnlearned dogbolt which I finde pag. 6. where I say that some of the Papistes were moderators of the conference at Westminster at least one namely D. Heath then occupiing the place of the Bishoppe of Yorke Therefore not onely lay Lordes and vnlearned heretikes as this leaude losell and vnlearned dogbolt and trayterous papist I am bolde with him because he is so malepeart with the learned and godly nobilitie of England most slaunderously and maliciously affirmeth were onely moderators of that disputation but some of the popish faction were not onely present but presidentes of that action beside all the rest of the popish prelates which then were of that parliament for information whereof that conference was appointed I say let the reader iudge whether hee haue not deserued those termes that being but a man of verie meane learning as his writinges declare was not ashamed to call all the nobilities and coÌ„mons of the parliament lay lordeâ— and vnlearned heretikes Againe pag. 58. I call Bristowe a traiterous Papist because he slaundereth our state not onely for publike execution of open rebelles and errant traytours as the Earle of Northumberlande Storie Felton Nortons Woodhouse and so many hundreths of the northeren men whom all hee calleth holy martyres prooued by miracles vndoubted but also with priuie murthering by poysoning whipping and famishing what lesse I could haue sayde of him for this hygh treason openly printed and what an honest Papist the censurer is for reproouing me in so terming him I refer to the iudgement of all Christian and faithfull subiectes To proceede I call him shamelesse beast pag. 18. because he maketh a shamlesse and beastly conclusion in those wordes Whosoeuer haue at any time set themselues against any doctrine confirmed by miracle they haue beene against the trueth There can to this no instance bee giuen our doctrine which they resist hath beene confirmed by miracles therefore playne it is that they are enemies of the trueth Doe you not heare this shamelesse beast say quod I there can be no instance giuen against his proposition when the Lorde himselfe giueth an expresse lawe against a false prophet which sheweth signes and miracles Deut. 13. c. Weigh the terme with the desert of the person in this bolde assertion and if it bee too extreme I desire no fauour Yet againe pag. 10. I write thus Where Luther confesseth that the mockers of the true Church were commonly called heretikes his conscience did not accuse him as Bristowe sayde of him that his side were heretikes For hee was able to put a difference betweene him that by heretikes is called an heretike and him that is so indeede although Bristowe either for his blockish wit cannot or for his spitefull malice will not conceiue it Heere I doe not simply accuse his wit but either his wit or his malice and that one of them was to blame if not both euery wise man may see by his argument Furthermore pag. 39. I say he is an impudent asse which to stablish his grounde of custome is not ashamed to falsifie the wordes of holy scripture For hee had said that Saint Paul after many reasons 1. Cor. 11. for the vncomlinesse of womens going bareheaded recoyleth to this inuincible fort Si quis c. But if any man seeme to be contentious we haue no such custom for women to pray vncouered nor the church of God His ignorance and impudence is manifest in this place If the terme asse offende any man let him
seruice ecclesiastical or temporal sacred or prophane If the world bee restrained to any one peculiar seruice or function as one of the Greeke wordes is then doth it signifie Deacons onely Whiche if they know not or wil not beleeue me let them see Beza himselfe in his Annotations vpon Saint Mathew who protesteth that in his translation he vseth alwaies the word Minister in the generall signification and Diaconus in the speciall and peculiar Ecclesiasticall function of Deacons So that yet wee can not vnderstande neither can they tell vs whence their peculiar calling and function of Minister commeth which is their second degree vnder a Bishop and is placed in steede of Priestes FVLK 2. What the general worde of Minister signifieth howe it is taken both generally and specally we are not so ignorant that wee neede bee taught of you And yet al learned men are not agreed when the greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is restrained to the Minister of the poore and when it signifieth generally all the officers in the Churche As for the name of Minister by which Elders or Priestes are commonly called among vs I haue euen nowe and diuers times before shewed vppon what occasion it was taken vp so to be applied which yet generally signifieth all that serue in the Church and common wealth also MART. 3. Againe what can bee more against the dignitie of sacred orders and Ecclesiastical degrees than to make them profane and secular by their termes and translations For this purpose as they translate Elders and Eldershippe for Priests and Priesthode so do they most impudently terme S. Peter and S. Iohn lay men they say for Apostle Embassador and Messenger Ioh 13. v. 16. and for Apostles of the Churches Messengers of the same 2. Cor. 8. for Bishoppes ouerseers Act. 20. Why my maisters doth idiota signifie a lay man Suppose a lay man be as wise and learned as any other is he idiota or that one of your Ministers be as vnlerned ignorant as any shepheard is he not idiota so then idiota is neither Clearke nor lay man but euerie simple and ignoraunt man They that spake with miraculous tongs in the primitiue church were they not lay men many of them yet the Apostle plainely distinguisheth them from idiota So that this is more ignorantly or wilfully translated than Neophytus a young scholler in al your bibles FVLK 3. There can be no greater wrangling nor more vnprofitable than about wordes and tearmes But why I pray you shoulde the tearmes of Elder and Eldershippe be more prophane and secular in English than they bee in Greeke yea than the names of ancients and seniors which you your selues in your translation vse for the same office wil you neuer be ashamed of these vanities which turne alwaies to your owne reproche yet do they say you most impudently terme S. Peter and Iohn lay men And do not you dishonour them as much to say in your translation they were of the vulgare sorte what signifieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a lay man but one of the vulgare sorte or common people Againe were they of that Cleargie whereof Annas and Caiphas were highe Priestes or were they not as perfectely distincte from that sacrificing Priesthode as any lay man at this day is from the christian cleargie yet you goe on whether the furie of your malice doth carry you and say that Idiota is neither Cleark nor lay man but euerie simple and ignorant maÌ„ If it be so then reforme your translation as wel in thys place of the Act. 4. as in 1. Cor. 14. where you cal idiota of the vulgar sorte or the vulgar and plucke your selfe first by the nose for false translating beefore you finde fault with vs. Againe if the high Priests did take the Apostles for vnlearned and lay men what impudencie is it to say that wee tearme them so And touching your signification of idiota although the Priests knew that they had not bin brought vp in studie of learning as they themselues were yet hearing their bold wise answere they coulde not take them for simple and ignoraunt menne therefore it followeth that they meant they were none of their cleargie rather than that they were ignoraunt and foolishe for simple in the good parte they woulde not acknowledge them to be As for the terme Embassadour and Messenger for the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Io 13 v. 16. may wel be vsed in that place seeing it is like he speaketh as generally of the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he doeth of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is a seruaunt The seruant is not greater than his Lord nor the embassadour than he that sent him And for the messengers of the Churches wheÌ„ those are vnderstoode by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche are sent on message from the Churches and not those that are sent by Christe to preach vnto the Churches no wise manne can blame the translation Acts. 20. where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are of vs translated ouerseers of you Bishoppes yet in your note you say or Priests as though the worde maye signifie Priestes whyche all menne of skill doe knowe to signifie ouerseers although the terme bee giuen to them whiche beefore are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Elders or Priestes But it proceedeth of greate ignoraunce that Neophytus is translated in all our Bibles a young Scholler O what knowledge haue wee learned of you to translate Neophytus a Neophyte For before we did take Neophytus to signify one that is newly planted or lately â—ngraffed and by a Metaphor one that is a young and newe scholler in the mysteries of Christian religion But because your Pope vseth to make boyes and vnlearned young men Bishoppes and greate Prelates in your Churche you can not abide that a young scholler shoulde by Saint Paules rule be excluded from a Bishopricke and therefore you mocke the reader with a Neophyte Wee knowe that in the auntient Churche they were called Neophyti whyche were lately baptised but yet in the same sense because they were young schollers and therefore looke in the Homilies that are intituled ad Neophytos and you shal see they are directed and spente almost or altogither in teaching the principles of Christian religion plainely wherein they were but younge schollers not yet perfectly instructed MART. 4. Nowe for changing the name Apostle into Messenger though Beza doe so also in the foresayd places yet in deede he controuleth both him selfe and you in other places saying of the same word Apostles A man may say in Latine Legates but we haue gladly kept the Greeke word Apostle as many other wordes familiar to the Church of Christ. And not onely of the principall Apostles but also of the other Disciples he both translateth and interpreteth in his commentarie that they are notable Apostles and he proueth that all Ministers of the worde as he termeth them are and may be so
called And for your Ouerseers he sayth Episcopos and not Superintendentes Which he might as well haue sayde as you Ouerseers But to saye the truth though he be too too profane yet he doth much more keepe and vse the Ecclesiasticall receiued termes than you doe often protesting it and as it were glorying therein against Castaleon especially As when he sayth Presbyterum where you saye Elder Diaconum where you saye Minister and so forth Where if you tell me that howsoeuer he translate he meaneth as profanely as you I beleeue you and therefore you shall goe togither like Maister like Schollers all false and profane translators for this Beza who sometime so gladly keepeth the name of Apostle yet calleth Epaphroditus legatum Philippensium Philip. 2. verse 15. Whereupon the Englishe Bezites translate your Messenger for your Apostle As if S. Augustine who was our Apostle should be called our Messenger FVLK 4. You can not leaue your olde byas in wresting mens sayings farre beyond their meaning Therefore you alledge against vs the saying of Beza for the terme of Apostles to be retained where meÌ„tion is made of the Apostles of Christ not onely those that are specially so called but also all the ministers of the worde But what is this to terme them by the honourable name of Apostles which are not sent by God but by men about some ciuil or Ecclesiastical busines For both he we cal Epaphroditus the Messenger and not the Apostle of the Philippians because he was sent by the Philippians vnto Paule and not by Christ vnto them As for that Augustine which was sent by Gregorie might better be called Gregories Apostle than our Apostle for he was not sent by vs but to vs not immediatly from God as an Apostle should but from Gregorie and by Gregorie Touching the termes of Bishops Elders Ministers Priestes c. enough hath bene sayd already Our translators haue done that which they thought best to be done in our language as Beza did in the Latine tongue MART. 5. As also when you translate of S. Matthias the Apostle that he was by a common consent counted with the eleuen Apostles Act. 1. v. 26. what is it else but to make onely a popular election of Ecclesiasticall degrees as Beza in his annotations would haue vs to vnderstande saying that nothing was done here peculiarly by Peter as one of more excellent dignitie than the rest but in common by the voyces of the whole Church though in an other place vpon this election he noteth Peter to be the chiefe or Corypheus And as for the Greeke worde in this place if partialitie of the cause would suffer him to consider of it he shoulde finde that the proper signification thereof in this phrase of speache is as the vulgar Latine Interpreter Erasmus and Valla all which he reiecteth translate it to wit He was numbred or counted with the eleuen Apostles without all respect of common consent or not consent as you also in your other Bibles doe translate FVLK 5. The election of Matthias to be an Apostle was extraordinarily and therefore permitted to the lot the maner whereof as it is not to be drawen into example so the proper election can not be proued thereby yet hath both Beza and the English translator faithfully expressed the Greeke worde which S. Luke there vseth although neyther Erasmus nor Valla beside your vulgar Interpretor did consider it Neither doth that common consent in accepting Mathias for an Apostle whome the lotte had designed more proue a popular election or derogate from the singularitie of Peter than that by common consent of the whole brotherhood two were chosen and set vp that the Apostleshippe should be layd vpon one of them MART. 6. Which diuersitie may proceede of the diuersitie of opinions among you For we vnderstand by Maister Whitegifts bookes against the Puritanes that he and his fellowes deny this popular election and giue preeminence superioritie and difference in this case to Peter and to Ecclesiasticall Prelates and therefore he proueth at large the vse and Ecclesiasticall signification of the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to be the giuing of voices in popular elections but to be the Ecclesiasticall imposing of handes vpon persons taken to the Churches ministerie Which he sayth very truely and needeth the lesse here to be spoken of specially beeing touched elsewhere in this booke FVLK 6. The diuersitie of the translation proceedeth of this that the former translators did not obserue the nature of the Greeke worde which Beza hath considered more absolutely than any interpretors before him Although it is not vnlike that Chrysostome did well acknowledge it when speaking of this election he vseth these words I am illud considera quam Petrus agit omnia ex communi discipuâ—orum sententia nihil authoritate sua nihil cum imperio Now also consider this thing how Peter doth all things by common consent of the Disciples nothing of his owne authoritie nothing with rule or commaundement And as for the popular election if you had redde those bookes you make mention of you might perceiue that neither of both parts allowe a meere popular election And that Maister Whitgift doth not so much contend what forme of election was vsed in the time of the Apostles and of the Primitiue Church as whether it be necessary that such forme of election as then was practised shoulde in all ages of the Church and in all places be of necessitie continued and obserued MART. 7. One thing onely we woulde knowe why they that pleade so earnestly against their brethren the Puritanes about the signification of this worde pretending herein onely the primitiue custome of imposition of handes in making their Ministers why I saye them selues translate not this worde accordingly but altogither as the Puritanes thus When they had ordayned them Elders by election in euerye Church Act. 14. verse 23. For if the Greeke worde signifie here the peoples giuing of voyces as Beza forceth it onely that way out of Tullie and the popular custome of olde Athens then the other signification of imposing handes is gone which Mayster Whitgift defendeth and the popular election is brought in which he refelleth and so by their translation they haue in my opinion ouershotte themselues and giuen aduantage to their brotherly Aduersaries Vnlesse in deede they translate as they thinke because in deede they thinke as heretically as the other but yet because their state of Ecclesâ—asticall regiment is otherwise they must maintaine that also in their writings howsoeuer they translate For an example They all agree to translate Elder for Priest and Maister Whitakers telleth vs a freshe in the name of them all that there are no Priestes nowe in the Church of Christ that is as he interpreteth himselfe This name Prieste is neuer in the New Testament peculiarly applied to the Ministers of the Gospell this is