Dominus Iesus reueâ—…auit cuidam deuoto poterit venire in breui ad amorem timorem perfectum coelestium By this meanes as the Lord Iesus reuealed to a certayne deuoute man he might in shorte tyme come to a perfecte loue and feare of heauenly things But in the meane time the people sticking in visible and earthly thinges fell without all feare or loue of Gods truthe euen to a perfection of Idolatrie Beléeuing too muche in such faygned reuelations and reiecting the word of God wherein Christ hath not to a certayne deuoute man but to all the worlde reuealed the expresse will of his heauenly father in playne words forbidding the worshippe of all Images yea of all creatures as heathen and wicked Idolatrie But ye still crye that your Images are not Idols as the heathens Images were and therefore your worshippe of them is not Idolatrie as was theirs I omitte the examining of thys sequele M. Stapl. And will onely as nowe denye the antecedent The which thoughe other more at large haue improued and I haue somewhat touched it before yet bicause at the very instant of the writing hereof there came to my hands a paper by a certen friend of youres whome I spare to name wherein was conteyned as he affirmed suche reasons as were vnanswerable to proue that your Images are nothing like the Heathen Idols Although perusing the same by Doctor Saunders foresayde booke of Images it séemeth to be drawen from his collections of the differences betwéene Idols and Images and so by some other already may be full answered yet I thought it not amisse euen héere to set it downe and sée by this whiche already is spoken howe easily or hardly it is to be answered vnto The differences betweene the Idols of the Gentiles and our Images sayth this Papistes paper First some kinde of Idols had no truthe at all in nature but were feigned monsters all our Images haue that essentiall truthe extant in the world which they represent I answere first for some of their Idols ye say truth Secondly for all your Images ye make a loude lye As for ensample the Image of S. Sunday pictured like a man with all kinde of 〈◊〉 about him as though he had bene Iohn of all craftes Wheras for the béeing of any suche man there was no suche essentiall truth at all extant in the worlde that it represented And yet for your Images this is a generall rule that you must most firmly beléeue Quod qualem imaginem vides ad extra oculo corporali â—…lem Christus habet similitudinem aed infra secundum esse diuinale Ideale That what maner of Image thou seest outwarde with thy corporal eye Christ hath the same similitude inwarde according to his diuine beeing and conceyued forme And the like he sayth of the Uirgin â—…deò habeatur Imago Mariae virginis pulchra quoniam turpis Imago teste Maximo non est vera Imago Mariae sed falsa Cum ipsa Maria sit totius pulchritudinis decoris amoris regina domina Let a fayre Image be had of the virgin Mary bicause a foule Image as Maximus witnesseth is not the true Image of Mary but a false Image sith Mary is the Queene and Lady of fayrenesse comlynesse and loue And M. Saunders concluding this poynt saythe For looke what proportion is betweene thing and thing the same proportion is betweene signe and signe of those things By which rule of leueling the Image according to the essential truth extant in the worlde of the partie represented by the Image as many other Saincts yea Christes and the blessed Uirgins maye be proued Idols being pictured amisse and swaruing from their truth represented so by no meanes can ye defende your consecrate cake your three faced picture of God the father your winged and feathered Aungels your pictures of Saint Sauiour and Saint Sunday from being manifest Idols And therefore betweene these some Images of yours and those some Idols of theirs there is no difference in this first point Secondly all their Idols were without truth concerning fayth and religion All our Images conteyne such a truth as belongeth to Christes fayth and religion I answere No Images belong to the truth of Christes fayth religion As for religion all the religion that Christ ordeyned was without Images Images in diuerse places are forbidden to be worshipped Custodiâ—…e vos à simulacâ—…ris Kepe your selues from Images And they are in no place bidden to be worshipped As for fayth Fides ex auditu auditus auteÌ„ per verbum dei Faith coÌ„meth by hearing hearing by the worde of God. But the worship of Images is without the word of god yea as is alreadie shewed by your schoolemen it is but of the Churches ordinaÌ„ce but no faith can be with out Gods worde the worship then of Images is without the truth of Christs faith religion so likewise in this 2. point they differ not from the worship of the heathen Idols Thirdly sacrifice was done to their Idols not so to oure Images but onely to God. I answere first in that ye made such sacrifice to God as God neuer ordeyned and made more dayly renuing of sacrifices to him not contented with the only sacrifice that he made once for all therein ye committed plaine Idolatrie and your massing sacrifice was the Idoll Secondly where ye say ye made sacrifice onely to God I haue proued alreadie in plaine confession of your selues that ye made sacrifice to the blessed virgin also Thirdly that ye say they made sacrifice to their Idols so do not you If sacrifice bée the worship of Latria then so doe you by your owne tales but what matter maketh this wheÌ„ ye sacrificed to them of whome the Images were the pictures and what differed that from the Heathens doing that sacrificed to Iupiter before the Image of Iupiter or honored him by sacrifice in his Image whiche thinges you did also and therefore without any difference héerein bothe theirs and your Images are Idols Fourthly their Images belonged many times to very wicked men our Images which we worship belong alwayes to blessed Saincts Not alwayes M. St. to blessed Saincts except ye iumble God his Saincts togither Yea some of those that ye worship for blessed Saincts are doubted of your selues to be daÌ„ned spirites belike they were little better than wicked meÌ„ But how blessed saincts some of theÌ„ were whoÌ„ ye worshipped read eueÌ„ your own writer sir Thomas Mores works of Images pilgrimages ye shall sée little difference betwéene theirs yours except yours were the worsse euen in that simulata sanctitas est duplex iniquita Their counterfeit sainctship made them double hypocrites Fourthly some of the Gentils professed theÌ„selues to adore the vnsensible wood and stone we do not professe or teache any such thing but rather the contrarie I answere if some of the Gentiles did teach this among them
Deuill afrayde of them the Diuell he is as soone M. Stapl. No no he delighteth in Idolatrie Excuse this Idolatrie that I haue shewed was committed to them and then tell vs he feareth them Which except ye caÌ„ do euen as he ruled the HeatheÌ„ Idols so that he ruled yours his very practises declared He feareth not deceipt iuggling knackes craftie coÌ„ueighaÌ„ces forgeries feigned miracles but rather is the ruler of them But many of your Images yea the most famous Images that could sweat frowne smile nod moue goe speake c. were wrought by such craftie legerdemaines as the vices and deuices of them haue since bene openly séene at the pulling downe of theÌ„ Which argueth that the Diuell feared them not but ruled them as he did the Heathens Idols Ninthly The Diuels mainteyned their Idols the same couet to throw downe our Images I answere this is in effect all one with the other For Quem â—…etuuni oderunt queÌ„ oderunt perisse expetunt VVhom they feare they hate whome they hate they wishe to perish But as is shewed he feared them not but delighted in theÌ„ Ergo he hated them not nor coneted to throw them downe but mainteyneth them with all his might and mayne with all his crafte and illusions and maketh such sturre against the worde of God and the setters forth thereof for them that neither the Priests of Baal made the like against the Prophets nor Alexander the Coppersmith against Paule and other Heathen Idolaters against the Christian martyrs as your Pope and you his Priests do against the Gaspel and the Protestants to mainteyne the worship of your Images And to say the truth ye haue greater losse by the decay of the worship of them than euer the Coppersmith which had gaines for making the Images of Diana had losse by S. Paule for speaking against them Infinite was the gaines that came toombling in by your Images And all this fat is in the fire by throwing them downe If then Images mainteyned such filthie lucre their maintenance must néedes be of the Diuell And God by his worde is the very ouerthrowe of them as he was before of the Heathen Idols Tenthly to be shorte their Idols were dedicated by Infidels to an Heathenish purpose our Images be dedicated to a verteouse intent Therefore our Images being so farre different from the heathenish Idols are iniuriously called Idols I answere First this common argument of good or verteouse intent is not sufficient for to make a difference herein Especially the Heathen euen in worshipping their Idols hauing likewise as good an intent and verteouse as téemed vnto them as your good verteouse intent séemeth vnto you They thought they did well and so do you this verteouse intent as it serueth you both so it serueth all Idolaters But you ought to make a distinctioÌ„ of good in déede good in apparance els ye are more vnskilfull than the Heathen that made a difference betwéene Reuera bonum that quod videtur bonum That that is good in deede and that that seemeth good This distinction herein ought you to haue made not stande on the intent which was in theÌ„ as good as yours as they thought for they purposed not to do ill but good though they did ill and not good And why bicause they did not order their purpose by Gods purpose yea by Gods commaundement not onely in the worship of Images which he statly forbiddeth but euen in the worship of God himselfe We must not doe that which séemeth good in our owne eyes but that which God hath commaunded wée shoulde do and in no poynt swarue therefrom If we doe swarue the heathens good intent will no more beare vs out than it did the heathen no more than it did Saule or Uza no more than it shal do those that Christ saith shall kil the Prophetes of God and thinke they do God good seruice All these are a like in good intent and vertuons purpose but not in good matter nor vertuous cause Wherein you fayling togither with them your intent maketh so little difference of your Images froÌ„ their Idols that it maketh them more alike And therefore the conclusion for any of these tenne poynts alleaged may well be inferred your Images are not iniuriously called Idols Thus much to answere one of your muttring Libels that ye scatter among the simple people whining that we slaunder you with the terme of Idols for Images By this little let them iudge whether we slaunder you or no for Idolaters and whether they be Idols or no and howe faint and faigned shiftes ye make to finde out difference betwene their Images and yours Wherein also ye would bleare the simple for who denieth but that there is a difference of the one from the other but not such as may make eyther the one or the other no Idoll If they were no such Idols they were as yll if not worse but were they not so yll yet yée proue not them no Idols for all this Well you haue spoken of the difference and nowe might I if I had not béene ouerlong already requite your tenne differences more than with twice tenne likenesses of your Images and theirs to proue them Idols both But you will say all this is an outroad neither properly your matter Be it so for once if you will although in déede it be not but is directly to your quarrell of Images Yet to draw nearer to your charge of Iulianus the Apostata for the Crosse. If ye affirme that in Iulianus time the Christians worshipped the Crosse then as he slaundered those Christians so doe you slaunder them Helene that ye say founde out the Crosse worshipped it not Epiphanius that saw the picture of Christ in a place proue to be worshipped rent it in péeces Cyrillus that aunswereth this slaunder of Iulianus obiecting to them that they worshipped the Crosse doth he graunt that they worshipped it He sayth no suche thing he onely mencioneth how they had it as a memoriall of Christs death and to moue them to thinke of mortifying themselues And where had they it in their Churches had they Roodlofts to set it in set they it on an aultar had it any sensing to it créeping knéeling capping crouching praying offering to it if there had bene any such matters we should by some of your side haue heard of it ere nowe No M. St. there was no such Idolatrie then as your Romish Church hath nowe farre passing the Idolatrie euen of the Emperor Iulianus He was an open enimie to Christ for his sake to his Crosse to all that was his but you are priuie enimies and hypocrites that vnder the pretence of friendship and honour as it were with Herodes pretensed worship Iudas kisse salute Christ his Crosse rob him of the price that he paid vpon the Crosse spoyle him of his glorie bereue him of his people Thus do you that
¶ The Supremacie of Christian Princes ouer all persons throughout their dominions in all causes so wel Ecclesiastical as temporall both against the Counterblast of Thomas Stapleton replying on the Reuerend father in Christe Robert Bishop of VVinchester and also Against Nicolas Sanders his Uisible Monarchie of the Romaine Church touching this controuersie of the Princes Supremacie Ansvvered by Iohn Bridges The Princes charge in his institution to ouersee the direction of Gods lawe DEVTER 17. After he shall be settled in the throne of his kingdom he shal write out for himself in a volume the copie of this Law taking the same of the Priests of the Leuitical tribe and he shal haue it with him reade it al the days of his life that he may learn to fear the Lord his God and keepe the wordes and ceremonies of him which are written in this law c. ¶ PRINTED AT LONDON by Henrie Bynneman for Humfrey Toye 1573. · HONI · SOIT · QVI · MAL · Y · PENSE · E. R ¶ To the moste high and moste excellent Princesse Elizabeth by the grace of God Queene of Englande France and Ireland defender of the Faith of Christ and in earth next vnder God of the Church of England and Ireland in all Ecclesiastical and temporall causes the supreme Head Gouernor ALbeit most Gracious Soueraigne I might be vvoorthily noted of presumption in dedicating these my trauailes to your Maiestie as vvel for the basenesse of my skill calling as for the vnreuerent demeanour of the aduersaries that here I ansvvere vnvvorthie vvhom your Highnesse should deigne to loke vpon yet bothe bicause the matter entreateth moste of a Princes estate and that vpon the chiefest point therof belonging in general to al Christian Princes but in especiall to your Maiestie against vvhom they chiefly direct their malice and in maintenaunce vvhereof your Maiestie direct your gouernement and herein haue giuen a mirror to al christian Princes to folovv and be partakers in their common vveales of the lyke blessings wherwith God hath beautified your Highnesse and established youre authoritie I thought it therfore not vnfit setting my self and them aside with all such by matters as incidently fal out in disputation betvvixt the Bishop and master Feckenham of me these my aduersaries â–ª to conâ—…ecrate this argumente of Supremacie to youre moste excellent Maiestie as to vvhom chiefly in your dominions next vnder Christ it dothe pertaine VVhich your Highnesse so nobly maintaines by practise of godlie gouernment hovve euer we by the vvord and argument do defend it There is no controuersie at this day betvvixt vs and the enimies of the gospel more impughed thaÌ„ this one of the Supremacie nor more bookes compiled more libels scattered more vaunts made of truth on their partie more sclaunders deuised of oure doctrine and your Maiesties Title more secrete conspiracies and open treasons against your Royal person and state of the Realme than our aduersaries make only for this Supremacie Shall Sathan then vse al this double diligence in promoting the pride tyrannie of his Antichrist the man of sinne the foreigne vsurper of all Christian kingdoms and shall the children of god be negligent in defence of the kingdom of Christ of the Lordes anoynted of the dutifull office and lavvfull authoritie of their naturall Soueraigne â–ª Other meanes I graunt may be had to suppresse their furious dealing And God bee blessed therefore that hath furnished your Maiestie vvith povver couÌ„sell authoritie lavv vvisedome learning vertue courage and al other Princely habilities â–ª suffiâ—…iet to maintein your Highnesse Title protect that portion of Christes Church vvhich he hath committed to your most Gracious gouernment in peace and truth prosperously 〈◊〉 your enemies VVherein as your Maiestie hath euer most zâ—…lously sought and set forth the glorie of god â—…e hath so glorified you again as he hath promised 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 glorificabo that your highnesse may say as king Dauid sayd â–ª he hath deliuered you out of your enimies hands and defeated all their purposes he hath established you a kingdom here on earth in peace and righteousnesse and hath prepared in heauen a Kingdom for you in glorie and eternitie Novv although this be so cleeâ—…e that euen the enimies themselues coÌ„fesse God vvorks vvith you God fights for you God hath takeÌ„ your hart into his handes that haue taken his quarel into yours yet sith the 〈◊〉 do mutteâ—… sclander your Highnesse to take suche kind of GouernmeÌ„t on you as vvere not coÌ„petent as the Pope had vvont to do your Highnes is furthest from if this your claime be not proued to be grouÌ„dedon Gods vvord if those enuious be not coÌ„â—…inced by euident argumeÌ„ts of the seripture al the foresaid prosperitie is couÌ„ted but earthly blessings and such as other vvorldly Princes haue All the due authoritie is 〈◊〉 but extorted violence neither is the mouth of the adoersarie stopped neyther is the mind of the subiect satisfied And therfore vvhen al is don â–ª there is no better meanâ—… to may 〈◊〉 this Title than euen by learning 〈◊〉 for to me it to the vttermost and to fight vvitâ—… the vveapon of Gods vvord for it vvhicheâ—…s sharpeâ—… to vvoâ—…nde the aduersaries heart and conscience than any tvvo edged svvord But some vvil say this is sufficiently done by otherâ—… learned labours vvhen both in the dayes of your Maiesties Father of most renoumed memorie euen the best learned of our aduersaries did not only confesse it but vvrote so effectually in defence therof that shamefully aftervvard reuolting their guiltie conscieÌ„cebore vvitnesse against themselues nor they coulde euer ansvvere their ovvne vvritings And also after that in the godlie gouernment of youre Highnesse blessed Brother many other more excellent fathers in vvriting did confirme it And novv lastly in this your Maiesties happie Reigne diuers famous and lerned men to the further confirming of the godlie and confounding the enimie therein haue vvritten vppon this argument Yet sith oure aduersaries haue neuer doone thervvith but sette on a freshe lyke to him that vvhen in vvrastling he was euer cast of pride and vainglorie vvoulde neuer acknovvledge that he had any fall I thought good to make euident to all your Maiesties subiects euen to the enimies themselues the places vvhere they shamefully fel and lie stil in their errour rather than to vvrastle vvith such vvarblers And yet if they start vp again to trie a further pluck vvith them and by the strength of Gods inuincible truth so to ouerthrovv them that as fast as they boast cauill and sclaunder the truth of our cause and the goodnesse of your Maiesties quarell shall shevve it selfe the cleerer although the simplier handled A number of other vvhom I knovve coulde haue done it farre better vvho may also at their discretions further trauaile in it And in deede vvhere the most of this vvas done a good vvhile sith it vvas layde aside thus long expecting if any other vvould attempte it
importance which is in all spirituall or ecclesiasticall things or causes as temporall What is this but an importune séeking of a knot in a rushe of no importance 〈◊〉 there any thing in these wordes added more than was â—…ully compreâ—… hended in the other or than King Henrie or King Eâ—…warde claymed and tooke on them 2. Pref. pag. 34. He maketh an other petit quarell at the fourme of the printed letter fol. 49. b. But it is aunswered in his bederoll of vntruthes where he likewise maketh a slurre aboute it Diuerse other petit quarels he dath aboute the distinction of the letter and for cyting the effect of certaine textes and not declaring them worde for worde fol. 50. b. which is aunswered Another quarell he pyketh at the Bishop for citing Emanuell Paleologus â–ª the Emperour of Greeâ—…e Aâ—…other for that he calleth him Christian Emperour 〈◊〉 these arâ—… aunswered in theyr proper places Another â—…or translating Suprema Anchora Supreme Anchore and not the last Anchore but this is likewyse aunswered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like petit quarels he piketh many which here for breuitie I ouerpasse And although there is none vnaunswered in their places yet aunswere them all with his owne wordes A man woulde here suppose master Stapleton that ye had some great and iust occasion thus grieuously to charge such a man as the Bishop is and that in print where all the worlde may read and consider it Pref. 17. VVhat an offence I beseech you hath the Bishop committed herein so great as woâ—…thie a dash with your pen. 〈◊〉 â–ª b. To these he adioyneth his tenth common place which himselfe calleth wordes of course saying these are but wordes of course 1. Pref. pag. 2. And therefore I vsed his owne terme His vvordes of course that is such as may be better returned on himselfe FIrst his beginning of his first Preface with the parable of the foolishe buylder Luc. 14. Whom he compareth the Bishop vnto for attempting this controuersie which he calleth the Castle of our profession and not able to go through therewith is therefore laughed to scorne saying beholde this man beganne to buylde but hee hath not beene able to make an ende That this may be truely recoursed on the Papists all the worlde beginneth to sée and to laugh them to scorne at the ouerthrowe that God hath made of their Nymrods Babilonicall Towre and howe the more they labour to repayre the decay thereof bycause they buylde not on Iesus Christ the Rocke but on the sandes of theyr Fathers traditions they can not therefore with all theyr force inquisitions deuises and attemptes bring their buylding to any good passe their groundworke iâ—… rotten their stuffe is naught and therfore master Stapletons Fortresse and all their Bulwarks are ouerthrowne spirituoris â—…ius with the spirite of his mouth that is with the worde of God. But ye will say sayth he of this parable they be but words of course Well preuented master Stapleton and in time who can rightly say or iudge any other of them sith they be so indéede as your selfe confesse wordes both of ordinarie course with you and all your side and what is sayde in the whole discourse of them but such course stuffe God wote as in recoursing them to you may be more fitly and truely applyed For ensample euen in the similitude ye alleage of the Apples and Grapes of Sodome and Gomorre Pref. 1. pag. 3. fayre to the eye without within nothing but stinking ashes A most liuely picture of the fruites of Poperie more glorious withoute in pompe riches wealth and might of the worlde More shining in outwarde holinesse counterfeyts myracles Iewish ceremonies and Pharisaical workes and in all other things more faire and delectable to the outward senses than euer were the Apples of Sodome or any thing else but within for sounde doctrine and the right worship of God consisting in spirit truth neyther the Apples of Sodome and Gomorre nor Sodome and Gomorre it selfe had euer the like stinch and infection And all those gay things come but to touche them with the touche stone the holye worde of God they smâ—…lder forthwith into Ashes or rather into nothing Uevobis hypocritae sayth Christ VVo bee to you hypocrites that make cleane that is outwarde c. The like recourse is made of all your glorious pamphlets and of this yours in hande there néede none other aunswere than to returne your owne words to your owne selfe thereon It beareth a countenance of truth of reason of learning but come to the triall and examination of it I finde a pestilent ranke of most shamefull vntruthes an vnsauery and vaine kinde of reasoning and last of all the whole to resolue into grosse ignorance Pag. 4. Likewise where he sayth Pag. 8. After all this strugling and wrastling agaynst the truth by you and your fellowes the truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and coÌ„firmed and your contrary doctrine is or ought to bee disgraced and brought in vtter discredite The aunswere to this is the same that 〈◊〉 made to the quarelling sophister If I say it the argument is true if thou sayst it it is false That which ye forge of a namelesse Protestant from one of your lying fellowes 〈◊〉 that A protestant of late dayes being pressed of a Catholike for extreeme lying and not being able to cleare himselfe sayde plainely and bluntly Quamdiu poterâ—… clades adferam latebunt quamdiu poterant valebunt apud vulgâ—… ista mendacia I will deface them and do some mischiefe to them as long as I am able my lyes shall lie hidde as long as may be and at the least the common people shall fall in a liking with them pag. 20. Aâ—… this is most likely to be your owne and your authors lie on the Protestants that at the least the common people might fall in a misliking with vs so is it euidently true if it â—…e recoursed on your owne side all the world can witnesse it hath bene your sayings and doings in very déede and noâ—…e for feare yâ—… should haue bene preuented obiect it in your Preface to vs It is you that with your crueltie and slaunders haue and do say Quamdin potero clades adferam I wil do mischiefe to them 〈◊〉 long as I can It is you that this long while haue slaundered and deuised horrible lies â–ª by those that haue professed the truth altering and chopping their articles saying they mainteyne such and such he resies as they neuer thought and haue sayde Latebunt quamdiâ—… poterunt valebunt apud vulgâ—… ista mendacia These lies shall lie hidden with the vulgare people so long as may be And so haue yée made the people in executing your crueltie beléeue that they did God good seruice So did the Phariseys and highe priestes abuse the 〈◊〉 and ignorance of the Iewishe people with such vntrue slaunders on Iesu Christ himselfe And to the better compassing hereof ye haue set forth lyes for truth and kept
c. VVe say ye be they that haue contemned Christs sacramentes we saye further that not onely the generall Councell of Trent but that the whole Church hath condemned your opinions These woordes of course are answered in their places fol. 56 a He telleth vs we would mayster and rule oure Princes bicause we limit their rule to Gods worde and that wée referre the interpretation of Gods woorde to oure selues that wee make therof a welshe mans hose Whiche woordes of course are answered in their places and are so manifest the dooings of the Papists and so farre from touching vs that it is maruell with what face he could reherse suche things But such is the propretie of impudencie to obiect that to other wherein he is most culpable him selfe fol. 70. VVe plainly say this kind of supremacie is directly against Gods worde so he sayd before and so let him say sâ—…il so long as he doth but say so and can neuer proue it These and suche like his sayings good reader as thou séest them but mere words of course so thou shalt fynd them swarme thorow â—…ut all his booke and if any of them be not answered for thou séest I cut them off for breuitie sake answere then them as thou thinkest good easy answer God wote may serue them and his owne wordes serue for all returned on him selfe 〈◊〉 nomine de 〈◊〉 fubula narratur change but the name and the tale is tolde of thee Fol. 31. b. In the meane season for these and all his other wordes of course I will say to him againe as he sayth to the Bishop Neither vvill I thanke you for bringing to our hands so good stuff to proue our principal purpose by but say herein to you as S. Aug. sayd in the lyke case to the Donatists alleaging the workes of Optatus by whiche they were euen confounded and the catholikes cause maruellously furthered Neâ—…mmen ipsis â–ª c. Neyther doo wee yet thanke them for their so doing but rather God for that they shoulde bring foorth and vtter eyther by talke or by alleaging all those thinges for our matter the truth forced them not any charitie inuited them And so truly M. Stapleton that you haue alleaged all this and other lyke wordes of course when they are 〈◊〉 compensed to you you are euen so confounded by them that it had ben better for your cause ye had not so muche vsed them but that ye brought suche good stuffe to our handes the truth of our cause forceth you not any good will to our cause or to vs moued you Maister Stapletons ovvne vvords returned to him selfe for all these his Common places MOderate your penne better reporte your authors more syncerely translate your allegations more truely laye downe the whole sentence without concealing of such matter as ouerthroweth your purpose say no more than ye fynd in stories slander not your betters deale more aduisedly and vprightly séek not out so often bymatters starting holes quarell not somuch about trifles of letters syllables escapes in printing raile not so bitterly scoffe not so LuciaÌ„like boast vaunt not with such defacings of persons and outfacings of the matter leaue your vain rhetorik of Copia verboruÌ„ and rolling on a letter vse not as ye cal them so many words of course let your tale hang better together without so many contradictions so shall your vntruthes be fewer an other tyme but so wil your cause I assure you M. Sta come starke naked feble and miserable And al your great volume as bare â—…ield as Esops pulde crow as partly may appere by this pretie farâ—…el of some such yeur sentences and ordinarie phrases in a part of the foresayd poyntes and may further be considered what a full and sufficient booke they might make vp of them selues if al the residue throughout all the foure bookes were gathered togither and sorted in their troupes and orders of these your common places But these only shall suffise for this your first booke for a viewe of the rest to shew what good diuinitie of Louaine your volume is most â—…arced withall and what as ye say they shall looke for at your handes Master Stapletons Beadroll and collection of vntruthes vvith a plain and brief ansvver to euery one of them so many as are noted in his fyrste Booke His ovvne chalenge of the Bishop for vntruthes YOur answere is so fraighted and stuffed with falshodes your vntruthes do so swarme and muster all along youre booke that for the quantitie of your treatise you are comparable to Maister Iewell youre vntruthes amounte to the number of sixe hundred fourescore and odde they be so notorious and so many that it pitieth me in your behalf Crocodili lachrymâ—… to remember them but the places be euident and crie corruption and maye by no shifte be denied If my curiositie in noting them displease you lette the vttering of them fyrst displease your selfe then ye will the lesse be displeased with mee You knowe maister Iewell hath led vs this daunce be not angrie Maister Horne if we followe the round 1. Preface pag. 19. The ansvvere to the collection of vntruthes VVinchester If I had not seene a further meaning in his setting foorthe and publishing the booke than he durst playnly vtter Stapleton The first vntruth slaunderous concerning master Feckenhams meaning Bridges Lo euen at the first striking vp of the round what a passing notorious vntruth is here to bee the captain ringleader to all this bande ye may well M. Stapl. not pitie it but pitie youre selfe and be ashamed also to haue so cried out of suche notorious vntruâ—…hes and here to beginne your daunce with this to haue vs look for the lyke to folow the rounde Howe vntrue this is let eche man hardely coniecture and your selfe shew that M. Feckenham durst not say all that he ment oftentimes in excusing him and euen your next vntruth will somewhat declare this further 2 But seing his chief end and principal purpose entended as may be iustly gathered in publishing the booke was to engraffe in the mindes of the subiects a mislikyng of the Queenes Maiestie as thoughe she vsurped a power authoritie in ecclesiasticall matters wherto she hath no right 2 His chiefe ende was farre otherwise as shall appeare You so chalenge this to be an other vntruthe that denying it to be his chiefe ende ye durste not saye but couertly confesse that an ende and purpose of him it was thoughe not the chief end Wherin ye proue that that ye chalenged before for an vntruth to be a truth that he ment more than he durst playnly vtter And yet howsoeuer ye woulde couer his and your meaning here both he in his booke and you in yours also durst plainly vtter that ye mislike hiâ—… Maiesties claime of this supreme authoritie and playnly laye to hir charge vsurpation Howe subiectlike let all true subiectes iudge And sitâ—… this his and youre bookes are
false Knowledge therfore is not alwayes taken so precisely to be onely of true things but graunting you this precisenesse that knowledge is only taken to be true thingâ—… yet you do yll herein bicause ye take after your ordinarie custome Pro concesso controuersum that to be graunted that is in question whether your or our part be true or false héerin Yea why maye not we saye and that wyth greater reason that you take the truthe for falsehoode and falsehoode for truthe And so you nor any of your syde notwithstanding all youre great bragges and thys your clearkly booke haue anye true knowledge VVell maye ye saye as ye doo moste falsly and to youre poore wretched soule as well in this as in other poyntes moste dangerously beleue the contrarie but know it yee can not vnlesse it were true for knowledge is only of true things and as the Philosopher sayth Scire est per causas cognoscere Do ye know whose words al these be and yet ye sée how they serue our turne far better than yours M. Sta. bycause our cause resteth on the truth which is the infallible worde of God Deus est verax God is true yours is grounded on the doctrines of men Omnis auteÌ„ homo mendax but euery man is a lier And therfore is it lesse maruel sith ignorance and falsehood knowledge truth are al one that ye account somuch of ignorance make it to be the mother of deuotion that ye kepe down the people in ignoraÌ„ce which conspireth with falshood cannot abide knowledge that is linked with truth as ye haue loÌ„g kept the truth vnder a bushel so yet you caÌ„not abide that it shuld come to the knowlege of the people perceiuing the sith knowledge hath begon to spring in the world our cause withal as the truth hath florished yours hath drouped as that falshod wherfore your freÌ„â—… haue cried out vpoÌ„ al good letters séeing that their cause hathe had no greater enimie than knowledge is no greater maynteyner than ignoraunce Qui male agit odit lucem nec venit ad lucem ne opera eius arguantur He that doth euill sayth Christ hateth the lighte nor commeth to the light lest his workes should be reproued Next vnto this you note a rabblement of vntruthes but ye neither number them in youre Calendar but onely marke them with a starre in the forbead nor in youre replie say any more vnto them than this I will not nor tyme will serue to discusse them but why woulde youre will and your time serue you to chalenge them for vntruths and not serue you to discharge your chalenge and your owne truth in prouing them so to be but go to I see there is no remedie wée must tarie your leysure vntil that youre will come on you and that your tyme will serue you Many horrible erroures and superstitions of Monkerie The. 29. vntruth reprochefull and slaunderous This was so vntrue that all the world rang of it and the Papists themselues cried out theron Although ye were in the Tower in king Edwardes tyme that was not for any doubte of the supremacie for that ye still agnised but for other poynts of religion touching the ministration of the sacraments The. 30. vntruth This was not the cause of his imprisonment as shall appeare Here in his beadroll thoughe ye sée he denyeth it â—…latly yet in his counterblast where he toucheth the same he dare not be so impudent But saith as I vnderstande so that if hée be chalenged of rash dealing to affirme that for an vntruth that he stammereth in no will he saye looke my beadroll and ye shall fynde that I denyed it flatly and boldly withoute any stammering at the matter If againe this bolde flatnesse be proued a â—…atte lie â—…ushe will he saiâ—… I referred it in saying it shoulde appeare to my counterblast where I declare no further than I vnderstode by my freendes let it light on them if it be a lie thus cunningly Maister Stapleton hath handled the matter But a manifeste lye it is that he maketh howsoeuer he auonch or mollifie the same For this was a special cause of his imprisonment as those can tell that be yet liuing who were sente to him and to others to persuade them therein And by whome soeuer hée vnderstoode it it is but M. Stapletons and his misseinformers lye And where he would excuse the matter bicause he was examined in the matter of Iustification doth it follow therfore he was not in also for the matter of the sacrament being principally then in controuersie The Bishop only said be was in for other pointes of religion and namely touching the Sacrament but sée howe pretily M. Stapl. would bleare the readers eyes with quarelling at this half point of the sentence least the reader shoulde marke wherin the Bishop principally charged M. Feckenham that hee had confessed this article of supremacie all King Edwardes dayes and so knewe and acknowledged it then contrarie to his pretence of ignorance nowe therin And this digresseth not from the matter in hand But from this M. Stapleton slippeth in great silence and sayeth not a word therto but dalieth about other matters to finde the readers play And so by his owne rule confesseth by not denying the verye poynt in hande that M. Feckenham all king Edwards time though he were in the Tower yet euer hee agnized this title then that he refuseth nowe Wherevnto also you agreed and promised to professe and preache the same in open auditorie wheresoeuer you should be appoynted Wherevpon a right worshipfull Gentleman procured your deliuerance The. 31. vntruth slanderous He was not deliuered vpon any promise of recantation but to bee disputed withall Here M. Stapl. maketh muche adoe to conuince the Bishop of an vntruth and to make it seeme more probable he citeth diuers honourable and worshipfull to witnesse and al nothing to the purpose in hand excusing M. Feckenham of that wherwith no bodie charged him and answering nothyng but by silence consessing that that he was charged withal The bishop made no mention of any conference or disputation had with M. Feckenham after his departure oute of the tower but of that conference whiche was with him maister Moreman and maister Crispine whyle they were in the Tower. When at their owne suite to the councell they desired to haue some learned men with whom to conferre especially about the sacrifice of the Masse the ministration vnder bothe kyndes and the ministration vpon a table and not an altare And at this their sute Master Storie the Bishop then of Chichester and Maister Roberte Horne then parson of All Hallows in Breadsteat now bishop of Winchester were appointed by the honourable counsel to deals with them which they did by the space of a moneth at sundry tymes till that Master Feckenham did â–ª consent with them in all these thrée poyntes and so by maister Hobbies
Apostles Peter and Paule doe playnely declare The. 57. vntruthe The Apostles neuer declared any such matter So saye you in déede â—… Stapleton but the Bishops proofes out of Chrisostome and sainct Augustine do playnly declare they did The. 58. vntruth Of misunderstanding sainct Augustine bicause besides this bederoll he also chargeth the Bishop therewith at large in the Counterblast it is answered seuerally in the answere of the. 18. chapter Not meaning only the transgressors of the seconde table in teÌ„porall matters but also agaynst the offendours of the first table in spirituall or ecclesiasticall causes or matters The. 59. vntruthe Sainct Augustine meaneth not to teach suche gouernement of Princes in ecclesiasticall matters as you teache but onely to punishe Heretikes and by the same to mayntayne the Catholike fayth decreed by the Clergie not by the ciuill Magistrate Belike ye can tell better what sainct Augustine meant than be could him selfe But S. Augustine is playne he néedeth no suche interpreter Remember your owne note maledicta glossa quae corrumpit textum Cursed be that glose that corrupteth the text S. Aug. interpreting the mynd of the Apostle to be that the authoritie power of Princes hath to deale in ecclesiastical causes so wel as in teÌ„poral The. 60. vntruth Saint Augustine neuer wrote so Ye shoulde haue tolde out the sentence of S. Augustine that the B. citeth which fully proueth it and then haue improued it as an vntruth if ye coulde whiche although ye do not yet in the margine of that sentence ye crye out lustily and say where is there in all this master Horne that the Princes haue to deale in ecclesiastical causes so well as in temporall For sooth master Stapleton euen here at your hand in this present sentence wherein S. Augustine proueth and your selfe also graunt so muche that the Princes authoritie punishethe so well abuses in eccl. causes and faultes againste religion as it doth ciuill or temporall causes but it punisheth all external faultes and abuses in al ciuil and temporal causes that by his supreme authoritie therein not as an others executioner Ergo it punisheth al external abuses and faults in all ecclesiasticall causes and religion and that by his supreme authoritie therein and not as the clergies executioner Eusebius c. vnderstanding the ministerie of the ciuill Magistrate to be about Gods religion and eccle causes so well as temporall The. 61. vntruth Eusebius neuer vnderstoode any such ministerie of the ciuill Magistrate In what things Eusebius vnderstoode the ciuil Magistrats ministerie to consist the B. set downe Eusebius his owne wordes to proue that he vnderstood it so you say he neuer vnderstoode it so but ye set downe neuer a worde neyther here nor in your Counterblaste to proue the contrarie which tyll ye shall be able to do the Byshoppes vnderstanding of Eusebius by his owne wordes is no vntruthe Eusebius saythe that in preaching by hys decrees true godlynesse in setting foorthe the religion of the moste holy lawe and the most blessed faythe the Princes ministerie consisteth in these things so wel as any other or before al other as his best ministerie But these things are not ciuill matters but spirituall and ecclesiasticall Ergo his ministerie by Eusebius vnderstanding consisteth so well in ecclesiasticall or spirituall matters as ciuill or temporall This moste Christian Emperoure did rightly consider as he hadde bene truely taughte of the moste Christian Byshoppes of that tyme that as the Princes haue in charge the mynisterie and gouernement in all manner causes eyther temporall or spirituall The. 62. vntruth impudent and shamelesse concluded but no whit proued And in his Counterblast I say it is a starke and most impudent lye that ye say without any profe Constantine was taught of the Byshoppes that Princes haue the gouernement in all manner causes eyther temporall or spirituall ye conclude after your manner facingly and desperately vvithout any proufe or halfe proufe in the worlde Here are wonderfull boysterous wordes Master Stapleton but greate boast and small roaste as they say For all this hyghe chalenge standeth on I saye and so in déede it appéereth to be your saying but hadde it not béene your saying Master Stapleton I woulde haue thought it hadde béene some cotqueanes cryaleyson and I woulde haue answered a wispe a wispe for setting aside your foule language what vntruthe is here concluded or what concluded that is not proued The Prince hath the setting foorthe of true religion of Gods moste holy lawe and the moste blessed faythe but these thinges are not ciuill but ecclesiasticall and spirituall the Prince hath to puâ—…te awaye and ouerthrowe all euilles that presse the vvoorlde but none presse the worlde more daungerously than superstition Idolatrie erroures heresies scismes sectes and false religion all whiche are no ciuill but ecclesiasticall and spirituall matters The Prince dothe these thinges not as an executioner of an others ministerie but all the dooing hereof is the ministery properly beloÌ„ging to his owne office yea it is his best ministerie Ergo he dothe all these thinges with as muche or more full and proper authoritie of his office â–ª as he dothe any other ciuill thing But his ministerie in ciuill things is by his supreme authoritie vnder God therin whose minister S. Paule calleth him This is the Bishops conclusion moste playne and true all your blackemouthed Rhethorike to the contrarie notwithstanding For this cause also Nicephorus c. compareth Emanuell Paleologus the Emperoure to Constantine For this cause the. 63. vntruthe as shall appeare There is no doubt some great cause that moued you M. Stapleton to put this in your bederoll of vntruthes that the Bishop sayd for this cause And if you were asked for what cause ye doe so it séemeth it would be harde for you to render any and therefore ye take a wise and a short way to tell vs it shall appeare But here ye shewe none nor any at all here appeareth And where it shoulde appeare there appeareth none also except this be sufficient reason onely to denie it and say it is no cause at all For these wordes onely appeare there VVhere ye say for this cause also c. this is no cause at all but is vntrue as of the other Emperour Constantine and muche more vntrue as ye shall good reader straight way vnderstande What cause I pray you is here alleaged and yet this is all that ye say vnto it sauing that as ye sayde before it shoulde appeare referring vs there hither here ye saye as the reader shall straightway vnderstande it And yet neyther straight way nor crooked way ye speake one worde more of the matter but goe about the bushe medling with other matters and not with the truthe or vntruthe hereof any more And so it appeareth nusquam and the reader shall vnderstande it nunquam Neyther is it any maruell if ye can not lette the reader to
vnderstande it for I thinke ye vnderstoode not the Byshops wordes your selfe which if ye had done ye wold neuer haue quoted it for an vnâ—…th for shame Ye knowe the Byshop before hauing for the vnderstanding of saint Paules wordes for the Princes ministerie alleaged the ensample of Constantine to shewe that his best ministerie consisteth in his carefull zeale direction of Gods glorie and truth and other matters of religion wherein Eusebius commendeth him being a famous ecclestastical writer and allowed amongst you sythe also Nycephorus another your late famous ecclesiasticall writer coÌ„parâ—…th moste expresly herein the Emperour of his time to Constantine the great what vntruth hath the Byshop committed to say For this cause Nycephorus compareth the one to the other for that he did so neerely imitate his duetifulnesse in ruling procuring and reforming religion to the purenesse thereof If Nycephorus haue not thus in these poynts compared them then a Gods name blame the Byshop that sayde for this cause alâ—…o Nicephorus c. but if Nicephorus haue so done then is the Bishop cleâ—…red of this vntruâ—… that said â—…e did so And if ye haue any quarrel to picke go picke it against Nicephorus that so did and not againste the Byshop that only sayde he did so Nowe whither Nicephorus haue done as the Byshop sayde 〈◊〉 did or no let the reader be vâ—…per The words of Nicephorus are long notwithstanding I will set downe some of them writing to the Emperoure he sayth thus Verily one shall suffice me as I mighte â—…aye for all with whome also perchaunce for that kinred and likelyhood whiche is betweene you and him you will gladly suffer your selfe to be compared and is this any other than that ConstaÌ„tine the great valoure and name among all men Constantine whose memorie ought to be as it were a certaine sprite in all menne VVho helped â—…s in oure moste necessitie and so mightely Constantine the greate in suche artes as belong to an Emperour in prudence incomparable but in feruencie towardes God and in great actes atchieued and contentions susteyned for the true godlynesse he is aboue all euen as the Sun is shining aboue the starres And art not thou O most excellent Prince the verie certain image of him here 〈◊〉 noteth in the margent coÌ„paratur c. The Emperor is coÌ„pared to Constantin the great and is conferred with him verily eueÌ„ so doth the glasse render the right shape of the Image as thou expressest the diuine shewe of his mynde and glisterest again being very like vnto him none otherwise than euen the naturall sonne doth represent his father and although I know well thou wilt disalowe my boldnesse which art chiefly wont to auoyde and beware of such prayses notwithstanding I will not doubte to saye this thing whiche I beeseech thee â—…o suffer me and consider my reason sith I chiefly knowe that thou art the sonne of God by grace and the Lords anointed aboue the reste that thou art the Image of him in all poyntes alyke which manifestly hast obtained the very godly form of him and the force and impression eyther of his liuing or imperial substance c. And so he runneth into particular poyntes wherin he compareth them togâ—…ther Is not all this enough master Sta. to proue the Bishops saying true for this cauâ—…e alâ—…o Nicephorus â–ª c. compareth these two Emperours togither but you 〈◊〉 this and shewing no cause in the world why ye chalenge the Bishop therefore runne to an other quarell about the Emperours name bycause the B. sayde as followeth For this cause also Nicephorus in his Preface before his ecclesiasticall hystorie dothe compare Emanuell Paleologus the Emperoure to Constantine The. 64. vntruth In putting Emanuel for Andronicus Ye are aunswered to this at large in the replye to your Counterblasting theron What soeuer his name were as it is called in question so the Byshop is cleared thereof following your owne principall auâ—…ors doctors that translâ—…ting and setting out this story named him euen as the 〈◊〉 â—…oth Emanuel Paleologus not once nâ—…r twice neyther â—…s the blinde man castes his â—…affe but as they say theÌ„selues on good considerations among them therevnâ—…o And so rehearsetâ—… his noble vertues The. 65. vntruth For this Emperour wâ—… a starke heretike So say you M. Stapleton and so ye reuile him in your Counterblaste for a wretched heretike also and a wicked dooer But your ecclesiasticall writer Nicephorus saith not so of him he reciteth 〈◊〉 many vertue â–ª and also 〈◊〉 and excellent vertues of this Emperour If he were not suche a one or had not such vâ—…rtues as Nicephorus rehearâ—…eth him to haue what is that to the Byshop who only sayth Nicephorus reciteth his noble vertues And to proue this true the whole preface of Nicephorus is manifest beeing for the most part nothing but the Princes coÌ„mendation of such noble vertues as Nicephorus sheweth he was endewed withall He calleth him principâ—…n omniuÌ„ Christi aâ—…antissimo atque humanissimo qui prorsus omnes virtutes complexus nihil rerum pulcâ—…errimarum excellentissimaâ—…um pretermisisti The Emperor most louing of Christ and most â—…teous who hauing throughly aâ—…tained all vertues haste let slip nothing that is moâ—…e faire and excellent It were tedious to râ—…cite al or the quarter of that he citeth in the prayse of this Emperours vertues The preface throughout is manyfest the Byshops allegations that ye can not denie the comparison aforesaide betweene him and Constantine do declare yea your self confesse that Nicephorus doth highly aduance and exâ—… this Emperour But as Nicephorus saith if wée may beléeue him on his credite beeing called of all your side scriptor per onmia verè catholicus a verye catholike writer in all poynts he flattreth him not nor forgeth but speaketh the truth in praysing of him al which dothe sufficiently acquite the Byshoppe for saying that Nicephorus rehearâ—…eth his noble vertues The Princes supremacie in repairing religion decayed The. 66. vntruth Fonde and foolishe as shall appeare This is onely a marginal note that the Bishop prâ—…fireth to all the allegations that he citeth out of Nicephorus to any one sentence of which allegations M. Stapleton answereth nothing But thus iustleth at the marginall note and sendeth vs to his Counterblaste thereon where it shall appeare how vntrue howe fonde and foolishe it is Which the reader shall iudge when he hath read his Counterblaste the answere thereto That by their rule ministerie and seruice not onely peace and tranquillitie but also godlynesse and religion should be furdered and continued amongst men The. 67. vntruth No such wordes in S. Paule Ye doe the Byshoppe manifest iniury M. Stapleton neyther haue ye any vauntage to pretende any of your former quarels at the printe of the letters it is euident the Byshop setteth not down those words as the bare words of the tâ—…rt of S. Paule whiche he cited the line before adverbum
to forsake this religion In the first parte he sheweth that Master Fekenham could not answere the B. him selfe but he sheweth no other reason thereof than this seing his state is such Secondly that the cause why he more than any other of his complices tooke vpon him to answere this least it should appeare to come of his owne ambitious busiositie was only at the request of some of his friends he will not tell of whom for so perhaps be might detect him selfe to be a disciple of BalaaÌ„s marke hyred for lucre to curse with his cursed and blackmouthed Rhetorike the Churche and truth of god And bicause hereby be would haue the reader couertly to vnderstande what kinne a great clerke he is of what terrour to his enemies and estimation among his friendes to entreate him more than any of all the rest to atchieue this enterprise he telleth vs he was not very willing therto bicause forsooth he purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially M. Ievvell for a season to rest and stande to his owne defence if any would charge him Wherein he would not haue ye forget what a lustie prouoker of sharpe aduersaries he is And although for two causes he was lothe to medle therewith first for that many things in this booke pertaine to certaine priuate doinges betwixt M. Feckenham and M. Horne of the vvhich saith he I had no skill secondly for that a number of such priuate matters touching the state of the realme occurred as to them vvithout farder aduice I could not throughly shape any ansvvere yet notwithstaÌ„ding all these thinges that neyther touched M. Stapleton nor he had any skill of them nor could shape any ansvvere to them he must néedes intrude and busie him self to shape some mishapen ansvvere his fingers itched since none of al his sharpe aduersaries would once deigne to answere him to prouoke the B. in these things and where his skill should faile rather than his will should faile he would furnish out his answere with his foresaide common places in which he hath a very good skill and grace As for the residue of his wantes aftervvarde it so hapned saith he that by suche as I haue good cause to credite there came to my knovvledge such instructions as vvell for the one as for the other that I vvas better vvilling to employ some paines and studie in this behalfe How these instructions hapned to him we must not vnderstande all for feare it fall out as they say that asking his felow if he be a theeâ—… two false companions néede no broker As it will I feare me fall out Master Stapleton in the scanning of your false informations whereof your selfe were vnskilfull ye saye but ye haue good cause to credite them were the more vvilling to employ your paines and studie therein and good reason ye should credite them that make any thing for you For why they be credible men of your owne partie be it true or false they tell you recke not you let them beare the blame if they lie you did but tell it for them Why should ye not therefore employ your paines and studie to painte it out that the more willingly since they do paie well for it Now M Stapleton being wel instructed though he promise to take the vvillinger paines and studie in this behalf yet must ye not presuppose that he taketh this vpoÌ„ him for that saith he I thinke my selfe better able than other but for that I vvould not it should seeme there lacked any good vvill in me either to satisfie the honest desire of my friendes or to helpe and releue such as by suche kinde of bookes are already pitifully inuegled and deceaued or to stay other yet standing that this booke be not at any time for lacke of good aduertisement a stumbling stocke vnto them What soeuer here M. Sta. ye pretende of your forward good will who so coÌ„ferreth here with your CoÌ„mon place of boastings crakes may easily returne your own saying on your selfe that these are but vvordes of course to saue your poore honestie least men should sée detest your ambitious vaine glory herein Neyther doth your preposterous zeale couer it any whit except this be to helpe relieue a stuÌ„bler where scarce a straw laye in his waye before to tumble a stocke into his path to make him fall downe right Now that M. St. hath shewed the occasions that pricked him forward to set on the B. He secondly sheweth the manner of his answere Wherein first after his ordinarie crakings of his poore labour of his diligence of his vvhole and full replie he excuseth his long tediouse babling vvherein I rather feare saith he I haue saide to much than to litle which in déede he hath good cause to feare as his Common places do shal declare And yet would he haue euery word put in replied vnto him selfe in his owne coÌ„science hauing sayd to much alreadie But to excuse this faulte he hath a sufficient reason at hande that tediousnes is good to make al perfect and therefore he had rather be tediouse than shorte Thus hauing handsomly excused the matter he secondly sheweth the order of the Bishops booke M. Hornes ansvvere as he calleth it resteth in tvvo partes Why M. St. how call you it may it not thinke you be called an answere that answereth the demaunde or request of an other but as you wrangle péeuishly about the name so that curiouse fine pate of yours disdeyneth the playnâ—… and simple name of an answere or replie or any other vsuall worde as ye pretende to auoyde confusion but in déede to shew some singuler conceite and excelleÌ„cie of your booke which so finely ye Entitle A counterblaste to say the truth a blast not worth a counter to counterblowe and all to blast the Bishops answers with all The two partes that he deuides the Bishops booke into are these In the first saith he and chiefest he playeth the opponent laying forth out of the holy Scriptures both Olde and Nevve out of Councels both generall and nationall out of Histories Chronicles of all couÌ„tries running his race froÌ„ Constantine the great dovvne to Maximilian great grandfather to the Emperour that novv liueth taking by the vvay the Kings of France of Spaigne and of our owne countrie of England since the conquest all that euer he coulde finde by his ovvne studie and helpe of his friendes partly for profe of the like gouernmeÌ„t of Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes as the oth attributeth novv to the crovvne of Englande partely for the disproofe of the Popes supremacie vvhich the othe also principally extendeth to exclude In the secoÌ„d and later parte he playeth the defendaÌ„t taking vpon him to ansvvere and to satisfie certaine of M. Feck â–ª argumeÌ„ts and scruples of coÌ„scieÌ„ce vvherby he is moued not to take the othe Hovv vvell he hath played both his partes â–ª the perusall of this
particulers but neither to nor fro ye proue any one so that he that woulde rebate them againe particulerly might as easily improue them all if with a contrarie if he denie them euery one And if it be so say you then â—…c and if it be not so maye be say so then and so verâ—…a vice And what is this but mock-holiday with the reader whome ye desire to marke you so attentiuely and here is no proofe at all to marke Besides that all these iffs stande on your former wrong principle that supreme gouernement and may be all answered with one if if not the prince in déede but your pope claymeth that supreme gouernment then the othe from the prince as clayming another maâ—…er of supreme gouâ—…rnement is frée from all these absurdities and they onely light on your popes pate that exacteth the same And so must they stande by your owne confession till ye proue that supreme gouernment and these absurdities to make against the prince Yes say you that I do for it followeth immediately That al these absurdities and manie yet more vvhich to auoyde prolixitie I here omitte do hereof depende this replie gentle reader abundantly proueth Whie is this proofe ynough M. St. hauing made so solemne and full a conclusion agaynst our religion the princes supreme gouernment and the othe and will your reader as he hopeth his saluation to marke howe ye proue the importance of your matter And hauing alledged many bitter things when you should come to the proofe of any one thing to prooue nothing but onely tell him yâ—… proue it in your replie and clawing him with the smooth title of gentle reader do ye thinke he can be so satisfied Now sâ—…rely then he might be a gentle reader but he should not be a verye wise reader that woulde thinke this were ynough to answere the hope of his saluation But ye say ye omit the declaration of the proues here to auoyde prolixitie Why auoyde ye not then here such prolixitie also in making your solemne conclusions and reserue them as were more couement to their conuenient places where ye saye ye haue shewed them What néede ye néedelesâ—…y babble of them here or whie maye not I reiecte the answere of them to the place of answere which ye referre vs vnto and there a goâ—…s name let the reader vveigh them In the meane season I answere if with if if nothing hereof be hitherto proued â—…ut is to be proued hereafter in your replie then for any absurditie here concluded the othe is to be taken the princes supreme gouernment is good and lawfull and your owne arguments fond kind of reasoning to conclude simplie on coÌ„ditionals to auoid prolixitie by long vain babling to craue the readers diligent vveying and to bring no proofe the vveight of a straw these are the most absurdities that the reader as yet can finde The like are your vaine crakes that ye beare â—…he reader in hand withall how ye haue euidently proued the primaâ—…ie of the B. of Rome not only in England before and since the conquest but throughout all Christendome as well the east as the vvest Church euen by the authours 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—… 〈◊〉 to the contrarye and howe ye haue proued the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 first general councels many nationall besides in Spaine Fraunce and Germanie And nothing is pronounceâ—…â—…y theÌ„ 〈◊〉 the princes supreme gouernment in matters ecclesiastical And here breathing your self as though you 〈◊〉 all 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 as ye beast it is novâ—… thy part 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you not to shut thine eies against the truth so clearely shining before thy face What soft M. St. the Sun shineth not in your Hemisphere as yet Ye are earely vp neuer the nearer Ye haue told the reader his dutie alredie to vveigh coÌ„sider vvith himself the importance of the matter in hand as he hopeth to be a saued soule tendreth his owne saluation This is a sore coniuration and requires that he be not moued lightly with any preiudice or affection nor caried about with euery wind on credite of your word Soft a while till he shall sée these things ye boast of they are not yet in hand when they shal come to hand then giue him leaue to trie view them oâ—… what side he shall find the truth to shine clearely before his face to that part he should open his â—…ies his eares and hart also and shut them to that partie that he shal find loue darknesse can not abide the cleare shining beames of the truth to lighteÌ„ direct him But as though ye had woon the reader already and had determined before hand which is the truth Against the vvhich truth say you bicause master Hornes ansvvere is but as it vvere a vaine blast the confutation of that ansvvere to auoide confusion of replies vvherof so many and diuers haue of late come forth I haue termed for distinction sake a CouÌ„terblast Whatsoeuer the B. answere is the readers attention hitherto séeth nothing in you but vaine wordes and a vaine title of a vaine booke to come as he maye hitherto iudge procéeding of a vaine head to shewe a finer vaine than your fellowes haue Your fetch is in this your vainglorious title to gyrde at the B. name whereat diuerse tymes ye lykewise scoffe as though an other â—…oulde not descant a like on yours But this vaine dealing as it may perhaps delight â—…oad on such as your selfe and yet â—…erchaunce the indignitie of your behauiour against though your aduersarie yet farre your better and your mâ—…lapert arrogancy in aduauncing of your selfe may lose ye some credite with other your friendes nothing 〈◊〉 the Bishoppâ—… nor impeacâ—…eth the cause that the B. defoÌ„deth so the iâ—…different reader betwene both reading both will no doubt regard more the force or weaknesse of your arguments than estéeme the iolitie of your fresh title or feare the boysterousnesse of your Counterblast so conferring the one with the other will iudge as he findeth cause Neither wil the aduised reader be moued with your flattry saying And novv gentle reader most earnestly I besech thee of all other articles that be this day ouer all christeÌ„dom coÌ„trouersious through the great temeritie of selfe vvilled heretiks raised vp most diligeÌ„tly to labor and trauail in this of the supremacie as being such that to say the truth â–ª in effect all other depend vpoÌ„ You besech the reader so 〈◊〉 M. St. that he shold do but well to grauÌ„â—… your vown How be it there are many other articles of nâ—… lesse coÌ„trouersie betwene vs his day far more subtile dauÌ„gerous Neuertheles it shal be necessary for the reader most diligeÌ„tly to labor trauail in this of the supremacie as a mother in déede to the most of your popish errors so the reader shal espie your selfe to be one of those self vvilled heretiks And that for al your earnest beseching him to trauell
sticke at that ye will not sticke and make that false that ye graunt true or else ye proue master Feck not to be ignorant contrarie to his defence and all the rest of your owne défence of him as we shall sée your wordes afterwarde In the meane time let vs sée howe pretily ye shift off the matter onely bicause the Bishop names Tho. of Aquine a schole Papist for the diuision of Ignoraunce thinking ye haue gotten a wonderfull aduauntage thereby for the Popes supremacie But nowe sayth M. Stap. the verye authour brought forth by master Horne so fullie and effectually dischargeth M. Feck of all three and chargeth M. Horne with the worst of them three that is wilfulnesse and malice as he shal winne small worship by alleaging of S. Thomas For S. Tho. sayeth plainely that we are obliged and bounde vpon paine of euerlasting damnation to beleeue that the Pope is the onely supreme heade of the whole Church Nowe fearing as not without good cause that the B. would in this matter reiect the authoritie of this Thomas whom our Thomas calleth a late latine writer and to much affectionate to the Pope as it were by preuention He can not well reiect his authoritie sayeth he vsing it him selfe And why so Sir I pray you must euery one that citeth him in any one poynt receyue and admit his authoritie to in euerie poynt Is it lawfull for the Sorbonistes the Scholemen and the whole rabble of the Papistes yea for Thomas Stapleton him selfe to accept Thomas of Aquines authoritie in some poyntes and to reiect his authoritie in other some poyntes and is it not lawfull for the Bishop or anye other to vse the same libertie The Sorbonistes affirme of this Thomas Illa doctrina non potest esse in omnibus sic approbata c. That doctrine can not in all thinges be so approued that conteyneth many thinges erronious in fayth but as they say the foresayde doctrine of Saint Thomas not onelye in the matter of the absolute necessitie of a creature c. but also in manye other thinges conteyneth manye matters erronious in fayth And againe Non oportet credere c. VVee muste not beleeue that the doctrine it selfe is in no parte thereof erronious or hereticall wherein are conteyned manye contrarieties and repugnancies yea euen in the matter perteyning to the sayth â–ª but manye suche contrarieties and repugnancies are conteyned in the doctrine of Saynt Thomas Agayne 〈◊〉 dicunt aliqui c. And some saye for thys that manye maye denye the glosses of the decrees and Decreâ—… when the glosse doeth openlye denye the texte and lykewyse some saye of the ordinarye glosses of the Byble that notwithstanding seeme to bee of greater authoritie when they are alleaged for authoritie than is the Doctryne of Saint Thomas The sixte example maye bee giuen of certayne Doctours whiche are not canonized Saintes as the venerable Anselme Byshoppe of Cant. Hughe of Saint Victor and certayne other whose sayinges or wrytinges are in certayne poyntes founde erronious and yet theyr doctrine seemeth to bee no lesse authenticall than the doctrine of Saint Thomas sithe they are of the skilfull in their scolasticall actes alleaged for authoritie nor are wonted to bee denyed but their sayinges reuerently to be glosed and expounded whiche notwythstanding the Schoolemen are not woont to doe on the sayinges of Saint Thomas and therefore it seemeth presumptuous so to extoll hys Doctrine ouer them and other Doctours that wee maye not beleeue and affirme that hee erred in fayth euen as other also haue erred And after this as likewise before reckoning vp diuerse errours these spéeches are common Ista locutio est de virtute sermonis falsa multum impropria c. This speech in the force of the wordes is false and verie improper Ista doctrina multos errores continet c. This Doctrine conteyneth manie errours Uidetur multipliciter erroneum c. It seemeth diuerse wayes erroneous Deficit in multis c. If fayles in many poyntes Non est verum c. It is not true Et breuiter haec alia multa erronea falsa impropriè dicta videÌ„tur multis in praedicta doctrina contineri quae tamen ex taediâ—… pertransimus And briefly these and many other erronious false improper sayings seeme to many to be conteyned in the foresaide doctrine the which notwithstanding we ouerpasse for tediousnesse And from hence they discend to manifest errours in diuinitie And in conclusion write thus of him They say also that in verie many places of his doctrine he erred by reason of this that he applied to much the principles of philosophie or rather certaine wordes of Philosophers to the conclusions of Diuinitie Thus say the great Censors of the Popish doctrine agaynst Thomas of Aquine so well they agrée togither in vnitie of doctrine obiecting discorde vnto vs Yea the whole swarme of Papists not excepting our Thom. St. here him selfe vnlesse he be returned to the truth since he wrote his booke reiecteth and condemneth Thom â–ª of Aquines iudgement and authoritie in one of the most necessarie matters of Christian religion namely the doctrine of iustification For expounding this sentence of S. Paule Arbitramur hemâ—…neÌ„ iustificari absque operibus legis Arbitramur enim nos c. For we being taught of Christ thinke sayth Thomas according to the truth of the Apostle that euerie man whether he be Iewe or Gentile is iustified by faith Actes 15. By fayth purifying their hearts that without the workes of the law and that not onely without the ceremoniall works which did not giue grace but also without the works of the moral commandements according to that saying to Titus 3. Not of the works of the righteousnes that we haue wrought The reason is presumed that we are saued for our merits the which he excludeth when he sayth not of the works of the righteousnesse which we haue done But the true reason is the onely mercy of god There is not therefore in them the hope of iustification sed in sola fide but in fayth alone VVorkes are not the cause that any bodie is iust before God but they are rather executions and the manifestings of righteousnesse Where Tho. of Aquine thus according to Gods worde speaketh the truth as in this poynt here of iustification the Bishop and all other faythfull receyue his iudgement and admit the same with better reason than the Papists reiect it But where as in many other poyntes he swarueth from the truth though the Papists saint him neuer so much yet there all true saintes with good reason refuse him As in this that master Stapleton citeth out of him who confesseth him selfe that Thomas being a late latine writer wrote partiallye in this poynte bycause hée was to muche affectioned to the Pope and shall we beléeue such an affectionate wryter in hys partiall affection Or shall we beléeue master Stapleton no
the booke of the lawe your texte sayth not so â—…ir but Describet sibi Denteronomium legis huius in volumine he shall write out this second law in a booke as Edmund Beck a man of your sect truly hath translated This is the least matter saith M. Stapl. and yet this is so great a matter that as a notable reproche he fasteneth it also in the margine as it were with a tenne penny nayle to vse his own phrase M. Hornes vnskilfulnesse â–ª But if M. St. did not play the vnskilfull hypocrite him selfe but had pulled the beame of vnskilfulnesse out of his owne eye he should then haue cleerely séene that the Bishop vsed good skill in citing his text faithfully and he in thus reprâ—…heÌ„ding the Bishop hath shewed so litle skill and so much infidelitie that though he him selfe be paste shame yet M. Feckenham and all his fréendes may well â—…e ashamed of him Ye say saith M. Stapleton the King is commaunded to haue by him the booke of the lawe your text saith not so sir. Forsooth sir the text saith so by your leaue the text hath bothe and therefore it is not the Bishop but you that lie both vnskilfully and also vnfaithfully therein Put on your spectacles reade your text againe and I dare say except your lippes hang in your lighte ye shall within sixe woordes following finde these woordes Et habebit secum and he shall haue it with or by him or as Munsterus translateth it Eritque illud penâ—…s eâ—…m and it shal be about him or appertayning vnto him So that here appeareth plainly your skilfull fidelitie if it be not done rather of peruersitie and malice to vse your owne woordes in deniyng the Scripture to say that which in plaine woordes it saithe and in calling that an vntruth in translation which euidently is a very true translation This vntruth therefore must be cutte of from your talie and nicked vpon your score The second fault founde with the Bishop in his antecebent is an vntruth as M. Stapleton hath scored it vp in leauing out a parte of the sentence materiall Wherein he noteth the Bishop of infidelitie Your infidelitie saith he appeareth in the curtalling of your texte and leauing out the woordes that immediatly go before those that ye alleage What were these woordes that the Bishop did alleage That he haue by him the Booke of the lawe Say ye me so M. Stapleton then if the Bishop haue left out the wordes of Moses that immediatly go before those that he alleaged euen by your owne confession these wordes alleaged do come immediatly after those that ye say the Bishop left out Dâ—…ye not sée what a manifest lier your owne testimonie proueth you Within sixe lines folowing ye affirme that the text hath not these wordes and here ye say they follow immediately You are full of gathering contradictions what call ye this it followeth in the text immediatly and it is not in the text at all Where is your Logike that ye boaste of are not these contradictories so that vnlesse ye caÌ„â—…ake two contradictions true ye haue made your selfe in the one an open lier Alacke M. Stapleton where was your remembrance Mendacem memorem esse oportet a lier should haue a good memorie least he faulter Well will you say here ye tooke me tardie But how say ye to this the Bishop hath leaft out a parte of the sentence materiall he hath curtalled his â–ª text The later worde he hath bicause they make directly against him quite least out Hath he so M. St. verily that were a foule faulte and infidelitie in deede But what againe if he haue not done so if he haue left out no parte of the sentence which he cited what if those wordes which M. Stapleton would adde out of another sentence would not make any thing against the Bishop were he not then cléered of this faulte and might it not redounde to the faultfinder And by your leaue M. Stapl. though I will not herein charge ye with infidelitie vnlesse ye wist it but impute it rather to want of knowledge yet at the least it is one of your vnskilfull lies for the sentence Et habebit seâ—…um c. and he shall haue it by him and shall reade it all the daies of his life that he may learne to feare the Lorde his God and keepe his woordes and ceremonies whiche are commaunded in the Lawe is an whole and perfect sentence and as the Hebrues call it a Pasuk which if not so much as perusing the Hebrue or Chaldee text yet if meaning a truth ye would haue looked vpon the translation of Sanstes Pagninu or Munsterus ye should haue séene it to be a full period and sentence of it selfe So that the Bishop is sufficiently discharged of all vnfaithfulnesse nor hath curtalled any sentence that he alleaged nor left out any later former or middle parte materiall or not materiall thereof But now M. Stapleton looke you to it least you be founde herein a passing vnfaithfull lyer not onely on the Bishop but on the holy Scripture also Ye say he hath curtalled his text What was his text he shall haue by him the booke of the lawe What woordes follow immediatly after and he shall reade it all the dayes of his lyfe to the ende that he may learne to feare the Lorde his God and keepe all his wordes and ceremonies that are commaunded in the lawe All this the Byshop cited and expounded also hath he then curtalled his text M. Stap. that so throughly and so largely hath set out the same Tushe saye you he lefte oute the wordes that immediatly go before those that he alledged Why M. Stay. call ye that curtalling curtalling is to cut off those wordes that come behinde To cut off those wordes that immediatly go before was rather to behead his text than to curtall it And do ye not sée withall how contrarie ye speake to your selfe they be the latter wordes and they be the words that immediatly go before If they be the wordes that go before they be not the latter wordes if they be the latter they be not those that went before vnlesse they come twise bothe before and after and so the head and the tayle of the sentence is al one and the byshop cutteth off both head and tayle away according to your popishe vsage of the Scripture But then where ye say he leaueth out a material parte of the sentence ye should haue sayde he tooke away all that is materiall and not one materiall parte thereof But the byshop citeth the full sentence And those words which ye say come after and that the byshop leaueth them out bicause ye say they make directly agaynst him they come not after at all but playnly are set before And I muche maruell with what impudent face ye durst chalenge the byshop for curtalling his texte when he telleth all the wordes that followe both of the sentence he cited and of that
ordinarie Glose sayth Nota quanâ—… assidâ—…itate legere debent Sacerdotes câ—… assidue legant reges Lectio ipsa est lux vitâ—… vnde verba qua ego loquor spiritus vita sunt Note with howe muche continuaunce the Priestes ought to reade the worde of God when Kings should reade it continually The reading is it selfe the lyghte and the life whereuppon sayth Christe the words which I speake are spirite and life Here M. Stapleton the lyfe lyes not as you sayde right nowe in the Priests exposition but in the word it selfe and the continuall reading thereof wherein not onely the Priest but the Prince is a kynde of Maister But are ye not right sure none of this is there neyther ye were best to say so for I perceyue ye haue an excellente grace to face downe a matter bée it neuer so playne and open Let vs nowe come to the fourthe and laste fault that he gathereth against the Bishop in this diuision whiche is also an vntruth as he saith in his margin the place of the Deuteronomie flady belied and adding this vnto the other before he saith This therfore may wel stand for an other vntruth as also that which immediatly you alleage out of Deu. 13. for in al that chapter or in any other of that booke there is no such worde to be founde as you talke of Uerily I beléeue our student M. St. had for studied himself in a lasie slumber and wrote this nodding half a sléepe for ful awake for pure shame he would neuer haue suffred such lewd lyes to scape his pen come in dropping thus one in an others necke as though he were at a poynte he cared not what he sayd neither against the playne truth nor against himselfe much lesse against the bishop Euery worde that the B. rehearseth in the last end of this diuision is fâ—…uÌ„d plainly exprest in the xiij and â–ª 17. of Deut. which chapters the Bishop quoted The wordes of punishing teachers of falâ—…e and superstitious religion and idolatrie in the former side of the leaf he grauÌ„teth himself to be in Deut. the. 13. Notwithstanding he forgetteth straight wayes what he sayd affirmeth on the other side of the leaf that there is no such word to be found But as he trippeth on the truth in the first side so on the other side of the same leaf he flatly falleth into a flat lye in both he tumbleth into a foule contradiction Moreouer in both sides he graunteth that by the. 13. of the Deut. The prince by his authoritie may punish teachers of falâ—…e religion superstition and idolatrie And may he do it withoute examining whether the doctrine wherewith the teacher is charged be true or false and being false whether he taught it or no Suche may be the order in the Popes consistorie but in Gods Courtes it is farre otherwise For God commaundeth Deut. 17. as the Bishop auouched the Prince when any is denounced vnto him to haue taught any false religion that he make diligent examination Quia noâ—… est procedendum ad sententiam sayth Lyra vpon these wordes fine diligeÌ„ti examinatione praeuia bicause he must not procede to giue sentence without diligent examination had before And this beeing found by the Princes diligent examination that he hath taughte false religion he shall be put to deathe The Bishoppes woordes comprehende all this The laste wordes also of the Bishops diuision to wete Et aufâ—…res malum de medio tui And thou shalt take away euil from among thee Are they not plainly set foorth in both those chapters So that a man might wonder that knewe not well Master Stapletons impudencie seeing that all the poyntes that the Bishoppe speaketh of in the later parte of this Diuision in the places of the Deuter â–ª aboue mencioned are so manifestly expressed with what face M. Stapleton can so boldly affirme that in al the â–ª 13. chapter or any other of that boke ther is no such word to be found as the bishop talketh of And thus with more than a full messe of notorious vntruthes to returne your owne conclusion M. Stapl. moste worthyly vpon your selfe ye haue furnished the firste seruice brought yet to the table concerning the principal matter howbeit perhappes though this be verie course yet you haue fine dishes and dayntie cates comming after Lette vs then proceede And as he sayth in the entrance of this diuision Go on I say in Gods name M. St. and prosecute your plea stoutely God send ye good speede and so he doth euen such as you and the honestie of your cause deserue and at the first entrie of your plea causeth you and your clerkly and honest dealing forthwith to your high commendation so to appeare that euen the firste authoritie that ye handle of all the holy Scripture playnly discouereth you and causeth you to be espied and openeth as well your fidelitie as the weakenes of youre whole cause the which euen with youre owne firste Counter blast is quite ouerblowen So fitly M. St. al these your owne words do serue against your selfe Diuision 11. IN this diuision the Byshop bringeth for his purpose two things first he alleageth generally that the beste and moste godly princes that euer gouerned Gods people did perceiue and rightly vnderstand that to be Gods will that they haue an especiall regarde and care for the ordering and setting foorth of Gods true Religion and therefore vsed great diligence with feruent zeale to performe and accomplishe the same Secondly for proofe héereof he entreth into his ensamples of the olde Testament beginning with Moyses that he was not the chiefe Priest or Byshop but the supreme gouernour or Prince and as chiefe gouernoure had the ordering of religion whiche he dutifully executed with great zeale and care To the former parte and generall assertion of the Bishop M. Stapleton only answereth by a marginall note saying Regarde and chiefe rule care and supreme gouernement are two diuers things â–ª Nowe forsoothe a solemne studied answere of a student in diuinitie he is a silly wise man that vnderstoode not thus muche before without this marginal note Too simple were he in déed that séeth they be not al one as he hath simply set them out But he that complained so late of curtalling and leauing out a materiall parte of the sentence whiche dooing he calleth vnfaithfulnesse sée howe vnfaithfully he hoffeth and curtalleth the Bishoppes sentence The Bishop spake not of simple care and reregarde but of an especiall care and regarde for the ordering setting foorth of Gods true religion With which assertion M. Stap. findeth no fault neither â—…y any worde goeth about to improue it and so sheweth himselfe to agrée therewith and by silence to confesse the truth thereof Now therefore let vs resolue the Bishops assertion and then consider thereon The Bishops assertion hath these thrée partes First that godly Princes ought to order and set forth Gods true
contrarie Thus saith the king the priest and the Bishop shal haue the gouernment of such things as appertaine to God. Ergo the Prince that thus appointeth him thereto hath an other supreme gouernment of appointing and ouerseing euen the priests gouernment Doth not the King appoint the one to his office so well as he appointed the other are not both gouerned in their offices vnder him Yet say you ouer gods matters is the priest not as the kings commissioner but as the priests were after the example of Moses The Bishop refuseth not the example of Moses but alleaged euen the same and your selfe then refused that example saying he had such prerogatiues that he of all other could not be alleaged for exaÌ„ple bicause of his especial priuilege And now contrary to your former sayings you say the priests were not as the Kings coÌ„missioners but were alwaies after the example of Moses But go to be it so how doth this helpe your matter or not rather quite confute it In Moses time Aaron and after him Eleazar were the chiefe priestes ouer gods matters vnder whome were the other Priestes and Leuites But all of them yea Aaron and Eleazar so wel as the rest were vnder the supreme gouernement in ecclesiasticall causes so well as temporall of their Prince and ruler Moses Ergo If Moses be an example how the priestes should alwayes gouerne vnder Gods matters then muste their gouernment be alwayes vnder the princes supreme gouernment to ouersée order and direct them as Moses did And where ye say the Priest here was not the Princes commissioner in these matters the very text is most playn to the contrarie I stande not on the worde least I should minister to you occasion of wrangling with me as ye do with the byshop but goe to the matter What call ye him that the Prince sendeth foorth in a commission committing a charge vnto him call ye him not a commissioner and his commissioner that so sendeth him in commission did not Iosaphat so sende about his priestes and Leuites on this commission that they shoulde teache and set foorth euery where the worde of God Tertio annâ—… regni sui misit c. in the thirde yere of his raigne he sent out certayne of hys princes Benail and Obdias and Zacharias and Nathaniel and Micheas that they should teache in the cities of Iuda and with them the Leuites Semeiah Nethamah Zebediah and Asahel and Semiramoth and Ionathas and Adonias and Thobias and Tob Adoniah Leuites and with them Elizama and Ioram Priests And they taught the people in Iuda hauing with them the booke of the lawe of the Lord and they went about throughout all the cities of Iuda and taught the people Were they not héere sent in this commission thus to do froÌ„ the king Their doctrine was not the kings but Gods commission the Lords booke but this their maner of traueling in setting it foorth was the kings commission And they so wel the Priests and Leuites as the Princes were bothe of them the kings commissioners In lyke case the Quéenes maiesty sendeth out hir godly learned commissioners sendeth by them the worde of God Gods booke and truthe to be set foorth The truth thus set foorth hath not his authoritie from hir coÌ„mission nor the preachers to preach only by hir outward commission but they haue another inward coÌ„mission from God and are Gods commissioners by the calling ministerie of their office Howbeit in this outward maner of visitation setting it foorth in this sorte of traueling about hir highnesse townes and cities reforming abuses directing all eccl. causes they are therin euen aswell the Quéenes coÌ„missioners as those priests Leuites in al their reformatioÌ„ of religion were coÌ„missioners from king Iosaphat And thus euery thing in the ende is moste euident agaynst you But yet ye blunder still on in your owne conceite and thinke ye haue héere gotten a wonderfull strong argument And marke well M. Horne this poynt say you Zabadias is set ouer suche workes as belong to the kinges office But suche workes are no maner thing perteyning to the seruice of God for ouer them Amarias the Priest is President Ergo the kinges office consisteth not about thinges perteyning to God but is a distinct function concerning the common weale Ergo if the king intermeddle in Gods matters especially if he take vpon him the supreme gouernement thereof euen ouer the priests theÌ„ selues to whom the charge is committed he passeth the bouÌ„des of his office he breaketh the order appoynted by God and is become an open enemie to Gods holy ordinance Your crakes and reuilings that ye powder your argument with I remitte to their proper common places to the argument I aunswere If it be marked well as ye would haue it saying Marke well this poynte M. Horne First the marker shall finde it neither in any moode nor figure Secondly the marker shall finde an Equiuocation in these words workes kinges office pertayning to Gods seruice Which words béeing diuerfly vnderstoode in either proposition Thirdly make a paralogisme of foure termes Fourthly in these words ye make a Fallation a secundum quid ad simpliciter Lyra liuiteth theâ—…e words super ea operaerit quae ad regis officium pertinent He shall be ouer those workes that perteyne to the kings office onely to the ayding and strengthening the Priests and the Leuites by the temporall sworde to punishe the disobediente But is there no other works of the Kings office besides this Uatablus vnder standeth it that as the priest medled with the weightie causes at Ierusalem so also the Leuites shoulde be ouer the lesser causes Causae CiutuÌ„ cognoscebontur à Leuitis causaeauteÌ„ Regtae à Zabaudiâ—… The causes or controuersies perteyning to the citizens should be herd of the Leuites and the causes and controuersies perteyning to the King should be herd of Zabaudias Neither of these vnderstande these words so generally of al the doings belonging in any wise to the office of a king In lyke case for the priestes gouernment in suche thinges as belong to God Id est sayth Uatablus quod pertinet ad rem diuinam To wite so farre as perteyneth to the diuine seruice or the dyuine administration And you wrest it to be vnderstoode simply for all ecclesiasticall matters and all causes of religion Besides that Fifthly ye reason styll after youre wonted fashion from the distinction of the thynges and vvorkes of eithers perticuler functions to the taking away of the Princes supreme gouernement ouer those distincte workes and functions Howe dothe this argument followe The king appoyntes one ouer Gods workes and another distinct from him ouer his owne workes Ergo the king hath not a supreme gouernement ouer them both to ouersée theÌ„ to do those works Your conclusions therfore last of all are faultie neither directly following vpon your premisses and comprehending much more then they inferre This part of your conclusion that
ought to counte the Canonicall scriptures in so much that I might not their honour which is due to those men saued improue or refuse any thing in their writinges â–ª c. And writing to Paulina of the credite to be giuen to the Scripture Alijs vero testibus c. As for any other witnesses saith he or testimonies whereby thou arte moued to beleue ought to be it is lawfull for thee to beleeue it or not to beleeue it And so saith S. Herome Quod scripturae sacrâ—… authoritatem non habet eadem facilitate contemnitur qua recipitur That that hath not authoritie of the holy Scripture is as easily dispised as receyued So saith Chrysostome Nullis omnino credendum nisi dicant vel faciant quae conuenientia sunt scripturis sanctis Thou must beleue none without they say or do those things that are agreeable to the Scriptures And againe Si quid absque scriptura dicitur c. If any thing be spoken without the Scripture the knowledge of the hearers halteth nowe graunting now staggering now and then detesting the talke as vayne now and then as probable receyuing it But wheras the scripture is there the testimonie of Gods voice commeth forth both confirming the talke of the speaker and confirming the minde of the hearer So S. Cyprian Legat hic vnum verbum c. Let him reade the onely woorde and on this commaundement let the christian religion meditate and out of this scripture he shall finde the rules of all doctrine to flowe and to spring from hence and hither to returne what soeuer the Churches discipline doth conteyne So saith Cyrill Necessarium nobis est diuinas sequi liter as in nullo ab earum prascripto discodere It is necessâ—…rie for vs to follow the diuine writinges and to swerue in nothing from their prescript rule And 〈◊〉 these Fathers so all the Doctours be plaine not to allow much lesse to determine any doctrine not onely contrarie but also besides the worde of God. Nor the Auncient doctours onely but also diuerse of the popish writers affirme that neither the Churche the Bishops the Pope nor any prouincial or generall couÌ„cel hath powre to determine any doctrine to be true or false otherwise than onely by the authoritie of the Scriptures to declare them so to be So saith Thomas of Aquine In doctrina Christs Apostolorum c. In the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles all truth of faith is sufficiently layde forth Howbeit to beat downe the errours of heretikes and of peruerse men certaine opinions of faith ought many times to be declared And of the same minde also is your great captaine Frier Alphonsus de Castro who attributing farre more to the popish Church and the Pope than he ought to do yet in this point after long disputation and argumentes on the matter he concludeth Nullo ergo modo c. It can by no meanes therefore be that the church may make any new article of faith but that the which before was the true faith and yet was hidde from vs the churche by hir censure maketh that it may be knowne vnto vs Whereuppon appeareth that my Lord Abbate did miserably erre who expounding the chapter that beginneth Câ—…m Christus which is had in the booke of the Decretall epistles in the title de Hereticis saith that the Pope can make a newe article of the faithe But he must be borne withall being ignorant nor well weighing of what thing he spake this onely I see must be laide in his dish that he Iudged beyond the slipper for it is not the office of Canonistes to Iudge of heresie or of faith but the office of Diuines to whom Gods lawe is committed The Canonistes partes are to descant of the Popes lawe Looke they to it therefore least while they couet to sit on both stooles the taile come to grounde as is the Prouerbe Thus sharpely concludeth Alphonsus against my Lord Abbate and all popish Canonistes that would intermedle with writing in Diuinitie I knowe not whether you Master Stapleton were any such or nâ—… but many of your site are euen such as he speaketh of that woulde studie bothe the Popes lawes and Gods lawes togither and so lay them both in the duste For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christi Behal VVhat felowship is there betwene Christ and Belial Thus writeth he that neither the Pope nor his 〈◊〉 nor the Church can determine faith or hereâ—…ie without the worde of God. And so saith Ferus Cum contâ—…leris falsaâ—… doctrinâ—…m c. When you shall conferre the false doctrine ye shall finde out the errour For the onely holy Scripture is the rule of the truthe from the which whatsoeuer differeth or doth contrarie it is darnell and errour in what countenaunce soeuer outwarde it come forthe For he that is not with me is against me saith Christe Herevppon the Apostles and Disciples in the primitiue Churche did dayly search the Scriptures whether they were so or no. For oft time it commeth to passe that that is iudged errour which is not errour and contrarie wise Here therefore the Scripture iudgeth So Christe was Iudged a transgressour of the lawe but if ye conferre him with the Scripture you shall see he agreeth best therewith On the contrary the traditions of the Phariseys seemed good which not withstaÌ„ding Christ conferring with the Scripture plainly sheweth they are contrarie to the Scripture And therefore Dauid in all that octonarie desireth nothing els but to be directed by the worde of God. And the same Ferus in the eleuenth chap. of Matthew Baculus arundâ—…neus est quicquid extra verbum des traditur c. VVhat soeuer is giuen without the worde of God is a rodde of a reede For it is al onely the worde of God which we may safely leane vppon in so much that from hence thou mayst see what frowarde deceyuers they be that for the worde of God would onely set foorth vnto vs their dreames that is a rodde of a reede Hereuppon the true Apostles gloried most of all on this that they deliuered nothing but the woord of God so saith Peter Not following vnlearned â—…bles we make knowne to you the powre and presence of our Lord Iesus Christe so Paule doth glory that he receyued not the Gospell of men but by the reuelation of Iesus Christe Whereon he inferreth if therefore any preache any other thing let him be accursed As though he shoulde say â–ª we haue preached the woorde of God whereto ye may safely leane â–ª accursed therefore be he that for the certayne worde of God bringeth a rodde of a reede that is to say mannes feigninges Thus hitherto agrée euen these Papists with the auncient Fathers that nothing may be decided to be true or false neither by Church Councell Pope or any Man nor any Angell with out the authoritie of Gods worde so to iudge and confirme the same But say you by this rule it
to go vp to Ierusalem and there to be tryed in the assemblie of the highe Priestes So Athanasius abandoned the councels at Lyre Smirna and Ephesus â–ª So Maximus abandoned the Councell at Antioche So Pauiinus abandoned the Councel at Milayne So Chrisostome abandoned the Councell at Constantinople And so we abandoned the Popes violent councels at Rome and Trident that we might say with Dauid Non consedâ—… iâ—… consilio 〈◊〉 cum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non introâ—…bo odi ecclesiâ—…m maligâ—…atium cum impijs non â—…edebo I haue not sitten in the counsell of vanitie I will not enter in with wicked doers I haue hated the Churche of the malignant and I will not sitte with the wicked These Councels we haue abandoned M. Stay. but no generall Councels wherein all things are tryed to be truthe or heresies by the touche of the worde of God and not by the Popes the councels or any creatures dâ—…cree besides Omnis homo mendax euery man is a lyer and the worde of God is onely the truthe of doctrine And therefore in all Councels we must crie with the Prophet Adlâ—…gem ad testimonium Let them râ—…nne to the lawe of God to the testimonie of his worde quod si â—…on dâ—…xerint iâ—…xta verbum hoc non erâ—…t eis â—…x 〈◊〉 If the Councell declare any thing to be heresie not according to the worde of God the morning light the 〈◊〉 of righteousnesse shall not shine on them but they shall erre in the shadowe of death But sayth Ambrose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs eâ—…rare non possis followe the â—…pture that thou mayest not erre And if the Councell do not follow them we are made free from following yea licenâ—…ed to abandon and accurse those Councels by your owne Canons Sâ—… quis prohâ—…t vobâ—… quod a Domino 〈◊〉 est rursâ—…s imperâ—…t fieri quod Dominus prohibet exeâ—…rabilis sit ab omnibus qui dilâ—…nt Deum If any body forbid you that that is commanded of the Lorde and agayne commaunde that thing to be done that the Lorde hath forbidden lâ—…t him be accursed of all that loue the Lorde And your Abbote Panormitane willeth vs so to estéeme of your Councels without the scripture that plus credendum vel simpliâ—… lâ—…co 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 qâ—… toti simul conâ—… we muste more beleeue euen a simple lay man alleaging the scripture than all the whole Councell togither And your famous doctor Iohn Gersoâ—… Chauncelour of the vniuersitie of Paris sayth Prima veritâ—…s 〈◊〉 stat c. this truthe standeth first to weete that any simple man beeing not authorized may be so excellently learned in holy writ that we muste more beleeue his assertion in a case of doctrine than the Popes declaration bicause it is euident that we must more beleeue the Gospell than the Pope Neither sayth he thus for the Pope alone but euen for your Councels yea for generall Councels in sacris c. VVe must more beleeue an excellent learned man in the scriptures and alleaging the catholike authoritie than we muste beleeue euen a generall Councell Thus by your owne doctors yea by the Pope him selfe that sayth no proofe oughte to be admitted agaynst the Scripture we may and muste abandon your Councels wherein many things besides and many thinges expressely agaynst the Scripture are determined for truthe and the expresse truthe of the scripture is condemned for heresie And therefore where ye say we renounce them onely for this cause bicause they grounde not them selues on the authoritie of the Scriptures ye shewe a good cause to cleare vs of all heresies and errors and shewe sufficient cause withall why we admitte not your Councels nowe your obstinate frowarde heresies to be suche that ye can not aâ—…ouche for them nor defende them by the holy Scriptures The authoritie whereof if those your Councels doe adâ—…itte as did the olde generall Councels then the clause in the Act of ParliameÌ„t doth no more abandon your Councels than it reiecteth those foure firste or any other that grounde their proues thereon But ye haue some better reason belike why ye set vp this fourth markâ—… of abandoning the Pope and his councels to be exemplified in the olde Testament Partly and most of all say you I say it for an other clause in the Acte of Parliament enacting that no foreigne prince spirituall or temporall shall haue any authoritie or superioritie in this realme in any spirituall cause Either your fingers itche master Stapl. at this clause wherwith ye be pidling so often before ye come to the proper place where this is handled more at large Or else ye do vse the figure of anticipation so mutch and so impertinently to puffe vp your counterblast withall But were it the chiefest cause why ye set vp this marke bicause we reiecte all foraigne authoritie then hath the Bishop hit this marke also at the full euen in all these examples Excepte you can on the other side proue that these godly Princes admitted in their dominions the authoritie of any foraigne Prelate ouer them Of which till you shal be able to bring profe the commaunding and directing of their owne priestes as is sayde before yea euen of the highest Priest of all is argument sufficient to inferre that they admitted not any other straunge Priest ouer them all straunge Priests then béeing heathen Idolaters and therefore this clause of foraigne prelates is also by the Bishop out of the olde Testament fully proued But say you The Popes authoritie ecclesiasticall is no more foraigne to this Realme than the Catholike faythe is foraygne You say so M. Stapl. I will beare ye witnesse but ye shoulde proue it and not say so onely Neuerthelesse be it not foraigne then is he not excluded by that clause nor ye néede so storme thereat that it should be the cause moste of all why ye haue sayde all this and nowe ye lyke it vvell inough saying And yet mighte the Pope reforme vs well inough for any thing before rehearsed Why rehearsed ye this clause then and found most fault therwith since those words hinder nothing his clayme Sauing that say you he is by expresse words of the statute otherwise excluded How chaunce your quarell then M. Stap. is not at that exclusion But wilily ye sawe well inough that he is exempted euen in that he is a foraigne powre And had his name not bene exempted yet the clause that before tâ—…kled ye so muche though now ye would make so light thereat did fully exclude your Pope bicause he is a foraygne power Or elsefull fondly ye quarell moste at that wherat ye had no cause Yes say you there is a cause why I mislike this clause agaynst foraigne authoritie For then I pray you if any generall Councel be made to reforme our misbeleefe if we wil not receiue it who shall force vs And so ye see we be at libertie to receiue
also in another place the Lorde sayth this day shal they take thysoule from thee The soule therfore when it is once gone from the body can not wander heere amongest vs. And the Scripture saith also of the Pattiarche he was put to his father and died in a good age But that also neither the soules of the sinners can abide here thou maist harken what the riche man saith and marke what he craueth and can not get it if the soules of men might be coÌ„uersant here he would haue come him selfe as he desired and haue warned his kinsmen of Hell torments Out of which place it appeareth also plainly that the soules after their departure from the bodie are carried away to a certaine place from whence at their will they can not get but do there abide expecting that terrible day of iudgement These wordes of Chrysostome well weighed inferre fower things First that there be no moe estates of the dead than twoo the iust and the wicked and so there are none to be purged after-death Secondly that there be be but two places also Heauen and Hell so the purging place called purgatory is excluded Thirdly that the soules once departed from their bodies come forthwith to one of these two places and there tary continually till the day of dome without wandring here on the earth and so purgatorie is againe excluded Fourthly that all appearings of any that say they are the sâ—…ules of such and such c. are the Diuels fraudes old wines fables fooles tales childrens toyes and so againe not onely the opinion of purgatorie is improued but also al the Popish reuelatioÌ„s thereof proued to haue bene the Diuels illusioÌ„s But of this more hereafter I note it now only to shew that this errour though nothing like to that it hath since was so cropeÌ„ into the Church then that Chrysostome was faine thus sharply to coÌ„fute it S. Augustine also rebuketh other errours cropen in by custome about the dead Nouâ—…â—…ultos esse c. I know saith he that there are many worshippers of sepulchers and of pictures I know there are many which most riottously drinke ouer the dead and making banquets to the corses burie them selues vppon the buried and these their gluttonnies and dronkennesse they accoumpt for Religion These and such like wicked customes and errours about the dead gréeued S. Augustine wherefore he deuised with the godly Bishop Aurelius how he might remoue them Though therefore Epiphanius allowed the praying for the dead and other ceremonies there aboutes that euen the popish Church doth not vse and pretende custome for him neuer so muche yet none of these fathers are of his iudgement herein Nor his argument from custome beyond the worde of God bindeth vs but that rather we may follow S. Augustins rule Magis veritatem quà m consuetudinem sequi debemus VVe ought rather to follow the truth than the custome Yea although al these Doctours had bene contrarie hereto the Scripture being so plaine therein Epiphanius argument therefore is very meane to force any Heresie of denying this erroneouse custome And yet is not Aerius excused bicause he withall couertly as appeareth by Epiphanius proues denied the Resurrection els had their bene no furder meaning in those wordes than that Prayer or Sacrifice was fruitlesse for the dead it had bene so litle any Heresie that Epiphanius was rather in an errour thereof by yelding to corrupted custome as I haue proued by the Fathers to whose tradition he appealeth and by S. Augustine that also noteth this thing in Aerius Howbeit I speake it not to deface the worthie commendation of Epiphanius but I do as you do when ye talke with him for Images Although I might note in him furder not only his too bitter coÌ„tention with Chrysostome but also that he is not all sounde for doctrine no not in euery point of the Trinitie not that I lay it to him as any Heresie but as an errour no marueyle then though he were deceyued herein and you also M. Stapleton that ground on him to slaunder vs with Aerius heresie which was against the resurrection and that the dead Sunt nulli are none and are resolued to nothing I haue bene the longer in answering you to Aerius bicause ye vrge it so much and triumphe in so vaine and false a matter Your next obiection is about virginitie How say you to louinian that denied virginitie to haue any excellencie aboue Matrimonie or any speciall rewarde at Gods handes Or euer I say any thing to Iouinian I answere to you M. Stapleton If you should receyue such rewarde at Gods handes as your slaunderouse and lying toung deserueth I thinke your virginitie presupposing that ye were so good a virgin Priest as ye pretende although I will not sweare for you would at that great daie of rewarde stande ye in litle stéede Your selfe know well inough that although we attribute to the honorable state of Mariage that reuerence and libertie among all men that Christ and his Apostle S. Paule biddeth yet do we not deface or dispise but esteeme honorable also the excellent gift of continencie Yea confesse with the Apostle that in him that hath the gift thereof it is in those respects that the Apostle mentioneth more excellent than Matrimonie Bicause such are more frée to tranaile in the preaching and ministerie of Gods worde with lesse trouble care and charge chiefly in time of persecution But not for any excellencie of virginitie it selfe as an holier vertue deseruing heauen which you call a speciall reward at Gods hands meaning thereby a merite or deserte of a greater glory in heauen than Matrimonie This fonde presumption of merites we disalowe and would haue ye say with Gregorie your Pope Let them know that virginitie so excelleth mariage that the vnmaried extoll not theÌ„selues aboue those that be maried You your popish Priests do not thus but in that ye be vnmaried ye preferre your selues aboue the maried craking of excelleÌ„câ—…e and special reward aboue others as did the boasting Pharisée And God wote are so far froÌ„ that virginitie which ye crake of that not onely ye burne within with most filthie lustes of your pampred bodies and vnmortified fleshe and so by reason of the scruple of your vowe haue your consciences marked with an whote Iron and yet virginitie as your selues to your owne greater condemnation without your greater repentance testifie is quite loste being polluted in the assent of the minde But what speake I of the minde which I would commit to God to iudge vppon sauing that all the world crieth out of your fornications adulteries incestes sodomitrie the crie whereof is ascended vnto heauen Your owne bookes swarme in exclaiming it and almost euery Cronicler noteth it But what néede notes of Chronicles when your licences and dispensations for your Priestes concubines your open mainteyning of courtezanes stewes and harlotrie are so apparaÌ„t that
Pigghius who might for his writing be called Hogghius wel inough one of your chiefest porkelings in his defence of the inuocatioÌ„ of Saincts against the worde of God He groyneth out this saying Ego certè maiore ratione c. Truly I will with greater reason denie thee the authoritie of all the Scriptures than that thou shalt call me into doubte the beliefe and authoritie of the catholike Church since that vnto me the Scriptures haue no authoritie but all onely of the Churche What a wicked and swynish saying is this of a proude Popish borepigge against the euerlasting worde of God that it hath no authoritie at all from God the author of it but all from man all from the Churche of Rome for that is the Catholike Church that he meaneth the Pope his College of Cardinals and his assemblies of Priests for this they call the oecumenicall and representatiue Church All the authoritie that the worde of God hath it hath it from them alone Which if it were true then indéede as he saithe by better reason he may denie all the Scriptures than so much as call into doubt the beléefe and authoritie of the popish Bishops and Priests Why may they not then adde too and take from and make what and as many Ceremonies as they please and good reason to But since it is no reason that the worde of God should be thus trod vnder the foote of man that Gods worde should giue place to mans worde that Gods worde should haue all his authoritie of the worde of Priests and none at all of God that the Wiues worde should controll checke mate and châ—…ks vp hir husbandes worde that the wife may speake and appointe as much as she thinkes good and the husbande which hath but a few wordes to say can not be heard that the wiues worde should beare the streake and giue authoritie to the husbandes worde according to the common saying As the good man saith so say we but as the goodwife saith so it must be if this be no good reason nor any reason but cleane against all reason then may we replie to Pigghius and you M. St. that with better reason â–ª all your Churches authoritie and beleefe ought net onely to be called in doubte â–ª whether it agrée to Gods worde or no but also ought to depend wholy and onely on the authoritie of Gods worde And rather than the authoritie of the worde of God should be called into doubte much lesse denied as wickedly he presumeth to speake it were much better reason that he were cast into the sea as Christ saith and in sléede of a milstone that all his ceremonies were hanged aboute his necke all such blasphemous swine as this Pigghius were caried hedloÌ„g into the sea with him Yea saith Christ Heauen and earth shall passe but my worde shall not passe If your Catholike Church M. St. were the true wife and spouse of the Sonne of God she would with all lowlinesse humilitie reuerence here regarde obey Christ hir husbandes worde And be content to be commaunded by it not to countermaunde it not to thinke it were not of force vnlesse she gaue authoritie thereunto not to adde or diminishe to or from it not to commaunde one thing when he commaundes another not to compell the children and houshold of the faith to obserue hir worde more than hir husbandes not to haue twentie commaundements for hir husbandes tenne not to vse other fashions and customes than hir husband bids hir yea such as he forbids hir not to haue all the wordes and hir husbande not one worde yea to shut vp his mouthe and not to heare his worde these are impudent whores and bolde strumpets fashions a godly Christian matrone a vertuouse and faithfull spouse would neuer do thus But since your Church doth thus call hir catholike so fast as ye lust she is nothing else but a common catholike queane and not the humble and faithfull spouse of christ And your selues that defende hir haue good reason indéede to defende your Mother but such Mother such children that to holde with their mother dispise their Father and make hir worde to giue authoritie to his and say that with better reason they may denie the authoritie of their Fathers worde than so much as make a doubte of the beleefe and authoritie of their mother Yea that is a good ladde I warrant him and a well taught childe that will helpe the Mother to beate the Father is he not worthie his Mothers blessing for his labour but suche bastarde rebelles shal be sure of the Fathers curse For indéede they are not his Children Ues ex patre vestro Diabolo estis You are of your Father the Diuell Qui ex Deo est verba Dei audit propterea vos non auditis quia ex Deo non estis He that is of God heareth the worde of God therefore you heare it not bicause yeare not of God. The true children of God aboue all other thinges yea more than Father mother wife children fréendes yea than their owne life loue God and the hearing of his woorde Otherwise they were not worthie of god Thus do all the shéepe of Christ 〈◊〉 meae vâ—…cem meam audiunt My sheepe heare my voice As the Father hath bidden them Hunc audite c. This is my welbeloued Sonne in whom I am delighted heare him that is to say Leuell all your faith and life by the onely authoritie of his worde Who onely knoweth the Fathers will and in whom all the treasures of his fathers glorie are couched Who is the wisedome of God the truth the way the life and the worde it selfe The Sonne which is in the fathers bosome he hath declared it Heare him Auditus autem per verbum Dei But hearing commeth not by the Mothers authoritie but by the worde of God. Thus did the godly children vnto God whome we call Fathers vnto vs both before in Uigilantius time Nullum imitemur c. Let vs follow none saith Origen and if we will follow any Iesus Christ is set forth vnto vs to follow the Actes of the Apostles are described and we acknowledge the doyngs of the Prophets out of the holy volumes that is the firme example that is the â—…ounde purpose which who so desireth to follow goeth safe Thus also saith Cyprian both for Gods worde for your Mothers ceremonies The Heretike saith let nothing be deuised of newe besides that which is by tradition deliuered From whence came this tradition came it from the authoritie of the Lorde and of his Gospell or came it from the commandements of the Apostles and their Epistles for indeede that those things which are written ought to be done God witnesseth and setteth forth to Iesus of Nauee saying let not the booke of this law departe out of thy mouth but thou shalt meditate therein day and night that thou obserue all things
in déede follow M. Sta. but it doth not alwayes followe â–ª A man may refuse manifest proufes of the old Testament and yet graunt such things besides that he may be concluded yea by his owne graunt â–ª And so is M. Feckenham here concluded as graunting the newe Testament the Councels and Fathers For since al these alleage he proufes of the old Testament he is forced by conclusioÌ„ of necessarie consequence to graunt also to the old Testament Except he be as peeuish as the Donatistes that granted thus much also and yet refused the manifest proufes and examples of the old Testament Although their own péeuishnesse conuinced theÌ„ but still they stoode on the bare wordes as you do and refused inclusiue proufes followed they neuer so necessarily And so did your selfe before require the Bare title of this supremacie to be shewed in the exaÌ„ples of the old Testament elâ—… you reiect the exaÌ„ples agrée they neuer so much in matter But now contrary ye say M. Feckenham doth allow and affirme the proufes of the old Testament bicause they may be included in those pointes that he alleageth but he would be loath they should be included as thankes be to God they be and so Uolens uolens beyonde his expectation is enforced with them But what is this to excuse him more thaÌ„ the Donatists if he had not of set purpose slonke from the manifest proufe examples of the old Testament for otherwise he might as soone haue expresly named the old Testament as he expresly named the new And so should he haue gone directly simply to worke not indirectly with a Circumquaque haue referred the old Testament to such inclusions as you here would shake off the matter withall chiefly since the old Testament hauing no included but expresse proufes is so expresly vrged of vs And yet if he would haue included the old Testament as you say vnder the name of the new Testament why specifieth he the one so plaine not the other at all if he did it for breuitie he might most briefly haue saide the Scriptures which worde had comprehended included both so had he shewed that he allowed the proufes of the old Testament also Ha M. Stapl. Ueritas non querit angulos The truth seekes no inclusiue corners goe plainly man to worke for very shame For yet for all your inclusions here to colour the matter in other places where this is not layde vnto your charge both your selfe and M. Dorman quite excludeth the examples of the old Testament from the new as not fit paterns for Princes to followe Doing herein what pretences so euer you here include euen as M. Feckenham dothe and the Donatistes did before And that Master Feckenham did no other but euen of purpose conceale the old Testamentes examples as foreseing that they made against him I will aske no better witnesse than your owne selfe Master Stapleton that by all these couerte inclusions go aboute to excuse him But when ye can not make any good excuse in conclusion yea in your next wordes ye bewray all the matter ye could hold it no lenger for your life blabbe it wist and out it must And surely say you wise men vse not greatly to shew that maketh against them but most for them Holde your hande from the booke M. St. ye neuer saide truer worde in all your life Ye hitte the pricke there in déede and tell the very cause why he concealed the name of the old Testament and shewed it not in his large and ample offer Bicause say you wise men surely vse not greatly to shew that maketh against them but most for them but M. Feckenham surely is a wise man Ergo he sheweth not in his offer the name of the old Testament bicause the proufes thereof make against him but onely put the name of the new Testament bicause he thought that made moste for him True Master Stapl. thus do the children of this world beyng wiser in their generations than the childreÌ„ of light not shewe â–ª as ye say but conceale the truthe of God bicause they sée it maketh agaynst them But herein M. St. for all your iolie witte and wisedome that ye vaunte vppon so often your wisdome ouershot it selfe Surely ye did not like one of these wise men but rather like one of the wise men of Gotham God turning your wisedome into folly that confesse those examples and proufes to make against M. Feckenham or at least wise that he so feared and therefore he sheweth not the name of the old Testament but concealeth it And thus while your drift is to proue that he shifteth not off those proufes and examples you confesse that he of very purpose not minding as ye saide before to include them but to exclude them leaueth them out and sheweth them not but shifteth them of and that of a shamefull purpose only bicause they make against him Where if he had any sparke of truth and conscience he would not hide that in Gods worde that maketh against him But perceyuing that those prouses make against him would withall perceiue him self to be in a manifest errour and neuer let worldly wisedome so ouercome him that he should be ashamed openly to confesse that he striueth against the truth And you M. Stapleton had ye any grace confessing the truth to be against him except ye be a very Manichee that set the old Testament against the newe would perceyue that if the old were against him then the newe were also against him and would euen here hurle away the penne that should defende such a shifter off and hider of the truthe against your conscience So farre would ye be from this impudencie to write that he affirmeth and comprehendeth that which of wisedome as ye call it he purposely concealeth and that he alloweth that which he hides as making against him Whiche is no point of wisedome M. Stapleton but rather of starke follie and méere contradiction to it selfe and to all your former excuses And thus speaking of wise men to shewe your selfe in the number ye speake against him whome ye are hyred and labour to defende ye speake against your selfe yea against your cause and all So doth God make them shew their owne shame that wittingly will be hyred with Balaam to resist his open truth Confusi sunt sapientes c. The wise men are confounded sayth the Lord they shal be astonied and taken for lo they haue cast out the word of the Lorde what wisdome can be among them And so hath God here infatuate M. St. that wheÌ„ he hath bewrayed the very cause why M. Feck shewed not in his offer the name of the old TestameÌ„t so wel as of the new to be bicause he thought it made agaynst him therefore did like a wise man to leaue it out he concludeth most foâ—…dly euen the quite contrarie VVherfore sayth he it is incredible that M. Feck should once imagine any
worlds end and neuer to be altered added vnto or taken from all suche nouelties besides or contrarie to the olde and former fayth hathe the Q. highnes god be thaÌ„ked therfore remoued as CoÌ„staÌ„tine did and all Princes ought to do and hath called vs agayne to the religion of the most holy lawe as a most diligent defender of the olde and former fayth from the Popishe corruptions in faith that haue sprong vp since And as ConstaÌ„tine deposed such Bishops as obstinately mainteined those later errours and not the olde and former fayth except on their repentance submission they were by him restored so hath our most gracious souer aigne deposed such Popish Bishops and Pastors as obstinately defended and mainteined their later errours Wherin she hath shewed hir selfe a moste diligent defender and recouerer of the oldest and formost fayth of the Christians Thus as hir doings swarue not héerein from Constantines â–ª as you pretende so hath she no lesse right and authoritie in hir dominion than Constantine had in his and all Princes ought to haue in theirs béeing all as S. Paule sayth Gods ministers in this behalfe To the which senteÌ„ce of S. Paule with Chrysostomes and Eusebius iudgement theron full coldely ye say If S. Paule call the ciuill Magistrate a minister bicause through feare he constrayneth the wicked to embrace the godly doctrine as by your saying S. Chrysostome construeth it we are well content therwith Now well ye be content therwith as your obstinate refusal of this the Princes ministerie the stormes counterblastes ye rayse agaynÌ„st it do declare so also that ye be not halfe pleased with Chrysostomes construction theron how well soeuer ye would seeme to be contented appeareth in this your pinching wringing of Chrysostomes sentence by the Bishop cited For neither the Bishop cited him as you say he doth neither you cite Chrysostome fully nor rightly whiche argueth ye are not very well contented therwith Chrysostome sheweth not that the prince is called the minister of God onely bicause through feare he constrayneth the wicked to embrace the godly doctrine but also he speaketh of honoring coÌ„mending or aduancing whereby he prepareth mens mindes to be the more apte to receyue the worde of doctrine Which phrase of Chrysostome the worde of doctrine ye could not also abide least ye should haue ouerturned thereby all those points of doctrine that are not contained in the worde of God whiche neuerthelesse ye terme godly doctrine though God in his worde hath not allowed the same but are the traditions and commaundements of men And thus making what doctrine it liketh you godly or vngodly and reseruing to your selues the authoritie thereof ye say ye are well content that the ciuill magistrate be a minister bicause through feare he coÌ„strayneth that is to say ye make him serue your turne to hang to draw to burne to racke to banish to emprison and to force men to embrace what doctrine you appoint and tell him is godly doctrine This ye be well content withall This ye call his best ministerie And that this is his setting forth of Christes true religion that this is his preaching the same with his imperiall decrees and proclamations But if once he take vppon him carefully to examine by the worde of God whether those doctrines and that religion that ye pretende to be godly and the old and former faith be so or no and finding them cleane contrary he remoue them by force coÌ„straine his subiects to embrace the doctrine of Gods worde and so prepare them to receyue the truth by punishing the wicked and obstinate seducers by placing in their roumes and honoring the godly setters forth of the worde of doctrine then in no case ye are well content therewith but raile at and sclaunder the doings of such a Prince and deuise al the trecheries that ye can to his destruction Neuerthelesse would ye well consider what here once againe M. St. you haue grauÌ„ted That the best ministerie and seruice of the great Constantine rested in the setting foorth of Gods true religion Then if the setting forth thereof be the Princes best ministery and seruice may he not Iudge of his best ministery and seruice yea how shall he set forth that whereof he shall not iudge Of other partes of his ministerie he may iudge and may he not Iudge of his beste ministerie are the setting forth of ciuill lawes properly a part of his office bicause they be a good parte of his ministerie is the setting forth of true religion being the best parte as ye are content to call it no parte at al thereof or not rather if it be his best ministerie it is the best part of his office also And seing the setting forth of true religioÌ„ is not properly a ciuill matter but distinct therefrom then doth the beste parte of the Princes office consist in the ministerie of an ecclesiasticall matter and that of such an one as containes the ouersight of all other matters ecclesiasticall For as in true religion they are or ought to be all coÌ„teyned so in the setting forth of theÌ„ is coÌ„tained their ouersight direction For how can he well set forth any thing that he ouerâ—…eeth not nor directeth which ouersight and direction being the supreme gouernment that the Quéenes Maiestie only claymeth and we ascribe vnto hir how haue ye not graunted withall M. St. that this supremacie ouer all causes Ecclesiasticall aboue all other things belongeth to hir Maiestie But for all this that he him selfe hath graunted or the Bishop hath inferred saith M. Stapleton Neither this that ye here alleage out of place nor al the residue which ye reherse of this CoÌ„stantine with whose doings ye furnish hereafter sixe full leaues can importe this superioritie as we shall there more at large specifie This is alleaged out of place ye say M. St. for Constantine But who seeth not that this is but a pelting quarrel the Bishop on good consideration order declareth both by Chrysostoms exposition Constantines example how this sentence of S. Paule that the Prince is Gods minister stretcheth not only to his ministerie in ciuil but also in causes Ecclesiastical But this is alleaged out of place â–ª say you It is no meruaile M. Stap. if it séeme out of place with you for all is alleaged out of place that hauing any place displaceth your assertion And thus pretending it is alleaged out of place ye passe it ouer post vs offâ—…il an other time when ye wil declare it more at large ad Calendas Graecas when ye shall haue more leasure But sir had ye any leasure at this time ye might better haue satisfied your Reader to haue fully answered here to that is here obiected and not thus to dallie off the matter till another time But there is no remedie the reader must haue pacieÌ„ce and waite your furder leasure Neuerthelesse when ye shall M. St. vouchsafe to méete
Apologie All whiche though it be a plaine digression from the Bishoppes aunswere and the issue in question beeing aboute Images and Idolatrie yet such is his importunitie we muste followe master Stapleton not whether the cause requireth but whether hys ydle brayne pleaseth to runne at randon Otherwise the principall parte of this Counterblast beeing reiected to hys common place of other impertineÌ„t bibblebables he would crie oute that hée were not aunswered in suche a weightie matter And yet when all is done as it is nothing to the present purpose so is it to no effect in any other matter at all For all his quarrell consisteth in these two poyntes The one that the Homelie wrongfully named Theodorus Lascaris for Michaell Paleologus The other for a decree of Ualence and 〈◊〉 agaynst Images For the former what Authours the Authour of that Homilie followed I knowe not howe be it he nameth not Theodorus Lascaris as you say master Stapleton but onely Theodorus neyther this missing of the Emperours name to him that woulde haue regarded the matter conteyned in the Homelie mighte bee thought worthie so great an outcrye excepte it were to you master Stapleton that still vse to stumble at a sirawe and leape ouer a blocke lyke to the Phareseys that Excolantes culicem Camelum glutiebant VVere stiffled with a gâ—…atte and yet swallowed a Camell Neyther was this so great an ouersight sythe Theodorus and Michaell were both of one tyme The one expelled the other and both still reteyned the name of Emperour For as Uolaterane sayeth Michaeligitur Paleologus c. Michaell Paleologus therefore at the same tyme inuaded the Empyre whiche two moste noble houses of Constantinople that is to saye the house of the Lascarie and the house of the Paleologie the one decayed the other lyfte vppe hir heade Theodorus Lascaris being thus expelled from the Citie of Constantinople yet raigned he still at Adrianople as the Emperour of Gréece And it is not vnlikely the occasion of his exile to haue bene about Images so well as other matters Syth the Gréeke and Latine Church haue stryued aboute the controuersie of Images nothing more and none so hotte For which matter chiefely the Pope rebelled from his alleageance and raysed all the diuision of the Empire in the Church of Christ that hath bene the chiefe decay and ruine thereof which onely sprang of the question of Images And yet sayth master Stapleton giuing vs no other warrantiss thereof than this his bare worde for Images VVhich had customably continued in the Greeke Church many hundreth yeares before and so reuerently afterwardes continued euen till Constantinople was taken by the great Turke and yet this good Antiquarie and Chronographer will needes haue the Grâ—…cians aboue seuen hundreth yeares togyther to haue beene Iconomachees that is Image breakers Are ye not ashamed master Stapleton to speake suche vntruthes euen where your selfe chalenge other of lyes For the authour of the Homelies noteth not here nor herevpon the dealing against Images all that space nor nameth any Iconomachees nor medleth any thing there with those 700. yeares that customably continued till Constantinople was taken by the Turke But onely of those yeares that customably continued from the primitiue Church till the time of the Empresse Irene The wordes of the Homelie are these These things were done in the Church about the yeare of our Lorde 760. Note here I pray you in this processe of the storie that in the Churches of Asia and Grece there were no Images publikely by the space of 700. yeares and there is no doubt but the primitiue Churche next the Apostles tymes was most pure Now where the words and meaning of the Homilie are most plaine and so true withal that ye could not gainsay it nor your Maister D. Harding coulde improue any point of B. Iewels chalenge about the same article ye wittingly wrest the wordes of the Homilie to the. 700. yeares preceding the taking of Constantinople by the great Turke chalenging the Homilie to alleage the Gretians to haue bene Iconomaches all that while thinking to fasten as ye call it a notorious lie on the Homilie But the Homilies truth is manifest and the lye lighteth on your selfe besides your rashnes to affirme without the booke on your owne fingers that for many hundreth yeres before Images customably continued in the Greke Church and so reuerently afterwardes continued euen till Constantinople was taken by the great Turke For the which though it would go harde with you to put you to your profe and to let it hang in suspence of a lye till ye haus confirmed it yet letting it passe I onely demaunde that if your Images haue such great force as your Legendes pretende howe chaunce they kept the Citie and their worshippers no better from the Turkes can they do no morethan the dumbe Idols that the Prophet speaketh of Habent gladium securim in manu se autem de bello latroâ—…ibus non liberant they haue a sword and an axe in their hand but they deliuer not themselues from warre and from theues Or rather if it be as ye say were the Grecians not deliuered ouer to those enimies as for their other vices so chiefly for that their Idolatrie as the children of Israell for the like were ledde captiue into Babylon The other thing that Maister Stapleton noteth in the Homelie is this Many other shamefull lies are there saith he to disgrace deface and destroy the Images of Christ his Saintes especially one wheras he sayth that the Emperor Valence and Theodosius made a proclamation that no man shoulde paint or carue the crosse of christ And thervpon gaily and iolily triuÌ„pheth vpon the catholiks VVheras the Proclamation neither is nor was to restrayne all vse of the crosse but that it should not be painted or carued vpon the grouÌ„d VVhich these good Emperours not Valens for he was the valiant captaine and defendâ—…r of the Arians but Valentinianus and Theodosius did of great godly reucreÌ„ce that they had to the crosse enact And yet as grosse as soul as loud a lying fetch as this is M. Iewell walketh euen in the verye same steppes putting Valens for Valentinian and alleaging this edict as general against al Images of the crosse You take vpon you lustily M. Stapl. to chalenge in your brode language both the Homilie the B. of Sarum â–ª But it is your maner there is no shift ye must be borne withall chiefly in this your extrauagant by quarrel Otherwise if ye had coÌ„sidered more indifferently the homilies the B. allegatioÌ„ no doubt you would haue tempered your pen with more sobrietie ye chalenge either of them for two lies in this allegation the one for putting the name of Valens for Valentinian the other for citing that simply that was conditionall which though it were as ye pretend yet neither of these the B. or the Homilies author are to be
And what if it did not necessarily if it did it what is here the necessitie to or fro the matter and what if it did some necessariliâ—… though not all Yet ye see here is somwhat gotten to helpe the matter for warde Ye graunt this doing argueth a supremacie in some Ecclesiaâ—…call causes although not necessarilie But stâ—…pping backe againe ye â–ª say And 〈◊〉 in no 〈◊〉 Eccâ—…siasticall concerning the 〈◊〉 discussing and determinâ—…cion of the same Well and what if this also were graunted you that concerning the finall discussing and determination he had supremacie in no cause ecclesiasticall yet might it followe that in all other poynts except the finall discussing and determination he had the supremacie Verily say you waxing somewhat bolder without any perchance it is most playnly and certaynly true it dothe not And howe proue you this M. Stap. For say you euen in this schâ—…maticall councell and hereticall synagoge the Byshops played the chiefe part â–ª and they gaue the finall thoughé a wrong and wicked iudgement And verily then without any perchaunce either your selfe do make a foule lye or else bothe in calling the Councell and giuing the finall sentence also the Prince had the superioritie For whatsoeuer ye deniâ—… héere not 16 lynes before ye graâ—…nted that he â—…othe summoned the Councell and also that he and they anulled and reuoked that hys father had done at the Councell at Lions Lo heere in the annulling and reuoking which was the finall discussing and determination â–ª ye bothe ioyne hiâ—… with them and place him before them And thuâ—… vnawares whyle ye speake agaynst the truthe ye wotte not what or care not howe ye wrappe your selfe in contradictions and make your selfe a lyer Your seconde parcell is onely agaynst the order of the sentences collected by the Byshop asking him what honor he hath got for al his craâ—…tie cooping or cunning â–ª and smoth â—…oyning combining and incorporating a number of Nicephorus sentences togither For all these wordes you vse to outscoffe the matâ—…er and quarell at the placing of them vnorderly But all this whyle ye answere not one worde to any one worde in them and yet set you downe your marginall note with a solemne outâ—…rie O what a craftie Cooper and smothe Ioyner is master Horne But sée how handsomely it falleth out and how orderly euen where ye talke of order â–ª For where ye 〈◊〉 haue set downe this your marginall exclamation at the comming to his second parte saying what honor haue ye go for all your craftie cooping c. Ye set it downe for haste in the matter before answered concerning the schismaticall Councel and the bishops dealing therin doing as the story telleth of Doctor Shawe in his sermon of the prayse of king Richarde the thirde that or euer the king was come to the sermon had already sayde his parte that he should haue sayde at his comming and so with shame inough out of place and out of time repeated the same But you may say thankes be to God inke and paper can not blushe and although I thinke you can do as little your self yet a Gods name let it passe be it but the Printers misplacing of the note although it fell out ill fauorâ—…dly to light euen there where ye reprehende the Byshop for ill ioyning togither of his senteÌ„ces and your booke ioyneth your marginal notes all besides your matter Now hauing thus stoode trifling in reprehending the order of the bishops collection of Nicephorus sentences bicause he setteth them downe togither béeing not so set togither but here there dispersed in the great long Preface of Nicephorus where the Reader now at the length should looke that M. Stap. should come to answere some poynt materiall of all the bishops allegations as though he had fully answered them all hauing sayde not so much as Buffe vnto any one sentence alleaged he repeateth his former vaunt full lustily saying What honor haue you I say wonne by this or by the whole thing it self little or nothing furthering your cause and yet otherwise playne schismaticall and hereticall For the which your handsome and holy dealing the author of the foresaide Homilie and you yea M. Iewell too are worthy exceeding thanks Is not héere a proper answere thus to iest out the matter with scoffes crakes raylings Surely M. St. what honor soeuer the bishop hath wonne by this or not wonne as he looketh for none at your haÌ„ds your thaÌ„ks ye may reserue for your friends you win much shame to your selfe your cause thus shamefully to â—…umble vp the matter all onely with out facing it Ye say the B. hath patched vp a number of Nicephorus sentences togither Why do ye not â—…ip a sunder those patches ' If he hath vsed craftie cooping cunning smoothe ioyning combining and incorporating it were your part to vnhoope theÌ„ to dissolue theÌ„ to answere them Tush say you what néede that they are al little or nothing furthering your cause Now M. Sta I thinke then they might be the easelier answered not so to skip ouer them like whip Sir Iohn at his morrow Masie But til you answere something to theÌ„ an vpright iudge will déeme them much to further our cause Although it is somewhat that ye grauÌ„t that yet a litle they further our cause â—… I think by that the reader hath wayed theÌ„ better he shal sée they so hinder your cause that ye thought it the best way to let them all alone And that the Reader may the better beholde bothe your dealing and the Byshops allegations so iudge how much or howe little they further the matter and whether they might haue bene thought worthy the answering as the Byshoppe hathe gathered them so will I set them downe Who hath glorified God more and shewed more feruent zeale sayth Nicephorus to the Emperour towardes him in pure religion without fayning than thou hast done Who hath with suche feruent zeale sought after the most sincere fayth muche indaungered or clensed agayne the holy table When thou sawest our true religion brought into perill with newe deuises brought in by counterfeite and naughtie doctrines thou diddest defende it moste paynefully and wisely thou diddest shewe thy selfe to be the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and staye in so horrible wauering and errour in matters beginning to faynte and to perishe as it were with shipwracke Thou arte the guyde of the profession of our fayth Thou haste restored the Catholike and vniuersall Church beeing troubled with new matters or opinions to the olde state Thou hast banished from the Church all vnlawfull and impure doctrine Thou hast clensed agayne with the worde of truthe the Temple from choppers and chaungers of the diuine doctrine and from hereticall deprauers thereof Thou haste bene set on fyre with a godly zeale for the diuine Table Thou haste established the doctrine Thou haste made constitutions for the same Thou haste entrenched the true religion with
mightie defences That which was pulled downe thou haste made vp agayne and haste made the same whole and sounde agayne with a conuenient knitting togither of all the partes and members To be shorte thou haste saythe Nicephorus to the Emperour established true religion and godlynesse with spirituall butresses namely the doctrine and rules of the auncient fathers These are the Bishops allegations out of Nicephorus for this Princes dealing in ecclesiastical matters Wherin are comprehended as eche man may sée all the chiefe ecclesiasticall causes The true religion the sincere fayth the diuine doctrine godlynesse making constitutions the fathers rules the catholike vniuersal church Neither ascribeth he to the Prince herein a power LegaÌ„tine froÌ„ Priest Byshop Patriarke or Pope muche lesse to be their onely executioner but vnder God he giueth him a supreme gouernement in calling him not onely the defender but the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay the guyde the restorer the clenser the establisher the entrencher and maker vp of all these things On the contrarie the puller downe and banisher of newe deuises counterfeit naughtie vnlawfull and impure doctrines of horrible errors and heretical deprauers And this his chief dealing herein to be most seemely for him and chiefly belonging to his princely office Dothe all this M. Stap. little or nothing further our cause if it doe not then it lyttle or nothing hindreth yours Why graunte ye not then vnto it if ye graunte but thus muche we wil vrge you little or nothing further for what is not héere conteined that is either conteined in the issue betwéene the Bishop and M. Feck or in the othe of the O. Maiesties supremacie that ye refuse to take But as light as yâ—… would séeme to make of this it pincheth you and ye dare not grauÌ„t nor answere any sentence therof Onely ye giue a snatche at a worde and bayte at the bishops marginal note vpoÌ„ these former allegatioÌ„s Wherin ye play like Alciates dogge at whom when one hurled a stone he let go him froÌ„ whom the stone came wreaked his anger on the stone So set you vpon the marginall note that in déede hitteth you a good souse but the allegations from wheÌ„ce the marginal note doth come ye let alone and fal to tugging of the note Only as I saide ye snatche at a word as though all the weight of the marginall note were setched only from thence and not from all these sentences But say you M. Home will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus He hath placed a note in the margine sufficient â—… trow to conclude his principall purpose And that is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is indeede a ioly marginall note But where findeth M Horne the same in his text for soothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering c. of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie But O more than childishe follie Coulde that craftie Cooper of thys allegation informe you no better master Horne was he no better seene in Grammer or in the profession of a schole master than thus foully and fondely to misse the true interpretation of the Latine worde for what other is suprema anchora in good Englishe than the laste anchor the laste refuge the extreme holde and staye to rest vpon As suprema verba doe signifie the laste wordes of a man in hys laste wyll as summa dies the laste daye supremum iudicium the laste iudgement with a number of lyke Phrases So suprema anchora is the laste anchor signifying the laste holde and staye as in the perill of tempeste the laste refuge is to caste anchor In suche a sense Nicephorus calleth this Emperour the laste the mightie and the holy anchor or stay in so horrible wauering and errour Signifying that nowe by him they were stayed from the storme of schisme as from a storme in the sea by casting the anchor the shippe is stayed But by the metaphore of an anchor to conclude a supremacie is as wyse as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a Saddle For as well dothe a saddle fitte a Cowe as the qualitie of an anchor resemble a supremacie But by suche beggerly shiftes a barren cause muste be vpholded First all is saide by the way of amplification to extoll the Emperour as in the same sentence he calleth him the sixt element reaching aboue Aristotels fifte body ouer the foure elementes with suche lyke Then all is but a Metaphore which were it true proueth not nor concludeth but expresseth and lightneth a truth Thirdly the Metaphore is ill translated and last of all worsse applied A sirra M. St. héere is a whot sturre and highe wordes A man would thinke all is nowe answered to the full and yet when all coÌ„mes to all héere is nothing of all this a do agaynst any one sentence of the Byshops allegations But the poore marginall note and one poore séelie worde of all these long allegations shall abye for this geare First ye say M. Stapl. that M. Horne will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus What ye meane by leesing I know not But it appeareth he may leâ—…e or finde them all for any thing ye wil answere to them Ye slinke for the nonce to the marginall note which is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is in deede say you a ioly marginal note but where findeth M. Horne the same in his texte forsoothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie Is there nothing M. Stap. in all these allegations that ye coulde sée wherfore the Bishop set downe his marginal note of the Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed but onely this sentence yea onely that worde do not all the other sentences importe as muche as this that he is the guyde of the profession of our fayth the restorer of the catholike and vniuersall Church the banisher from the Church of all vnlawful and impure doctrine the clenser of the temple with the worde of truth froÌ„ choppers and changers of the diuine doctrine and from hereticall deprauers thereof That he is the entrencher of true religion with mightie defences That he is the establisher of the doctrine and maker of constitutions for the same that he is the maker vp agayne the maker whole and sounde agayne of al that was pulled downe Might not all this to an indifferent reader be thought sufficient to answere the marginal note and comprehende in all poyntes as muche as the note yea though ye quite set aside the sentence and word wherat ye wrangle And yet with M. Stap. this one sentence must beare the weight of all that the bishop alleaged the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so
euery reader will soone iudge that seeth how you shift off the matter Ye answere nothing to any senteÌ„ce of the B. allegatioÌ„s ye runne at randon to other â—…lim flamtales ye finde fault at other â—…thours about other matters ye picke quarrels about bare names ye snatch at the marginal note let go the matter ye defâ—…aÌ„t about the only word supremus more like â—… beggerly Pedantie than a grammarlike scholemaster all but to raise mistes couÌ„terblasts pretending to dissipate discusse mistes al but to cary the reader froÌ„ the flat round answering of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet are al these no beggerly shifts of yours In déede M. St. these are no coÌ„mon beggers shifts these are 〈◊〉 shifts than al men vse or thaÌ„ euery maÌ„ caÌ„ see they are belike borowed of the beggerly friers of Louaine but from wheÌ„ce soeuer ye haue them the cause is both beggerly barraine that in stéede of good plaine answering seketh such shifte of shiftes but hold your peace 〈◊〉 the begger it is a bad sacke that can abide no clouting Now hauing thus shifted of the B. allegations with these shiftes you gather them vp in a briefe recapitulacion to excuse the matter First all is sayd by the way of amplification to extoll the Emperour as in the same sentence he calleth him the sixt Element reaching aboue Aristotels fifte bodie ouer the foure Elements with such like As though this amplifying of his estate were any argument for you to depresse the same And sith as him self protesteth he meant no flatterie this amplification meaneth yet a truth of his excelleÌ„cie and supreme estate Otherwise he could not well haue so called him although he sayeth not altogither as you say neither for he micioâ—…eth not Aristotle at all nor any his fift body nor speaketh of the foure Elements but he saith Et vt ille ab vtraque c. And that he receyuing from both of them speaking of godlinesse and sâ—…licitie that which was proper to them both might make perfect to all men a newe and in very deede a maruelous coÌ„moditie and helpe to woâ—…e a certaine stable firmament and as I might call it a sixt and an eternall Element in diuine matters beginning to slyde perishing by shipwracke offering thee the great supreme and in deede the holy Anchor of so horrible a wauering and errour both in holy and in prophane matters That in thee they might represent a sownde stabilitie to others also that are with thee This being the amplification of Nicephorus which is in déede a great amplification it sheweth that he meant to coÌ„mende him very highly for his supreme dealing in religion not as M. St. would haue it any thing to abase the same which is quite contrarie to the authours meaning But then saieth M. Stap. all is but a metaphore which were it true proueth not nor concludeth but exprefleth and lighteneth a truth Thirdly the metaphore is ill translated and last of all worse applied For the traÌ„slation M. St. it is answered before thanks be to God ye can not proue it false And yet not to coÌ„tend yours is admitted and maketh against you too â—…ueÌ„ by your owne tale But what hindreth this that this worde anchor is but a metaphore doth a metaphore being a true metaphore proue nothing but lighten a truth doth not a true thing proue a truth be it metaphore or what soeuer it be be it true as for a metaphore doth it not proue the thing that it is resembled vnto Christ is called bread a vine a stone a Lion a way a dore a sheperde do not these metaphors proue and conclude in him the reasons and proportions wherefore he is so called do we not by these metaphors coÌ„clude that he is our norisher our life our stabilitie our strength our guide and defence our onely meanes and entrance into heauen The Emperour is called here the chief Anchor Yet al is but a Metaphore say you What theÌ„ we go not about to proue him an Anchor But euen as your selfe expounde it we proue him by the metaphore of an Anchor to be a stay and so being the chiefe Anchor it proueth and concludeth that he is the chiefe stay And this is ynough that that it proueth thus much As for the Anchor take it to your selfe and get an Asse to your Cowe to carie it Neuertheles if this were also remitted to you that being a metaphore it prooueth not nor concludeth but expresseth and lightneth a truth What 〈◊〉 this the matter So the truth therby be expressed and lightned although the Bishop thereby concluded not his matter but onely lightned and expressed the truth thereof Were not this ynoughe at least to stoppe your brabling and rayling agaynst him Except ye be of Iâ—…mbres and Membres disposition that of purpose will resist the truth and not expresse but suppresse not lighten but obscure the same as the Phariseys did and you Papistes after them haue done and labour still to do But ye cannot oppresse the truth for euer yeaeuen your striuing agaynst it shall the more agaynst your willes expresse and lighten the truth Your small conclusion is verie short Last of all say you it is worse applied but so long as ye shewe neither howe where nor whie a man might aunswere you a shorte horse is soone curryed And when you applie your minde to aunswere more substantially I will take paynes to replie and cuâ—…rie your answere more smoothly As for the rest of your Counterblast it is but the blowing vp of the victorie before ye haue it It aunswereth nothing to the matter but is a crake of your triumph that ye wene ye haue gotten much good do it you master Stapleton Nowe whereas say you in the beginning of your matter the substance of your proues hereafter standing in stories yt haue demeaned your selfe so clerkly skilfully here the reader may hereof haue a taste and by the way of preuention and anticipation haue also a certaine preiudiciall vnderstanding what he shall looke for at your handes in the residue VVherefore God be thanked that at the beginning hath so deciphered you whereby we may so much the more yea the boldlier without any feare of all your antiquitie herfater to be shewed cheerefully proceede on Thou séest here a iolie triumph gentle Reader and I doubt not but thou séest what a great gaine he hath wonne Do but call for his cardes I warrant you he will be ashamed to shew them But alas good man giue him leaue he must crake of somthing to comfort himselfe withall and set a fayre viser on an yll fauoured visage to outface the matter when nothing else will helpe it But God be thanked indéede that hath thus deciphered his noughtie reckonings and sophisticall summes filled vp with bare Ciphers in Algorisme that furnished a place in steade of an aunswere and were in déede no aunswere nor anie iust accompt but as they say he
Empresses write for Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople and for the Bishop of Rome Wherein though they ascribe the dealings to the Councell and to the Bishop of Rome yet the licence and authoritie to do any thing or to stay any thing they al ascribe to the Emperour And as they ascribe this in these Epistles vnto him which argueth his supreme gouernement in all these matters so the Emperour in the answeres to these Epistles that are immediatly set downe to those by you cited acknowledgeth and claymes his supreme authoritie therein In the answere to the first from whence ye bring your allegation for the Popes primacie he saith The Emperour Theodosius to my Lord Valentinian Emperour In the beginning of your letters it is signified by your Maiestie both that your mildenesse came to Rome and that a petition was offered vp to you by Leo the most reuerende Patriarche As concerning your safe returne to the Citie of Rome O my Lorde my moste holy Sonne and honorable Emperour we render thankes accordingly to the diuine Maiestie but as concerning those things which the foresaide most reuerende man hath spoken it is already declared vnto him more plainly and fully as we suppose and he knoweth that we swarue in no parte from the Religion of our fathers and the tradition of our auncetours We will no other thing than the fathers sacraments deliuered as by succession to keepe them inuiolably For this cause therefore hauing knowledge that certaine persons with hurtfull noueltie trouble the most holy Churches we haue decreed a Synod to be holden at Ephesus VVhereas in the presence of the most reuerend Bishops with much libertie and with sounde truth both the vnworthie were remoued from their Priesthood and those that were iudged to be worthy were receyued VVe therefore know nothing committed of them contrary to the rules of faith or iustice Therefore all the contention was examined of the holy Councell Flauianus which was founde giltie of hurtfull newfanglednesse hath receiued his dew and he being remoued all peace and concorde remaineth in the Churches and nothing but truth doth florish Thus the dealing and determining of the controuersie remayning Synodically to the Priests and Bishops the decreing of the Councell the assigning of the time and place thereto the giuing them in charge to boulte out the truth the receyuing intelligence from them of their iudgements the allowing and ratifying their determination belonged to Theodosius And in respect of this his supreme doing though at other times he extoll the Bishop of Rome yet here he onely calleth him but most reuerende Patriarche and most reuerend man as he calleth other Bishops The answere to the second Epistle hath the like Theodosius to my Ladie Placidia the honorable Empresse our highnesse vnderstandeth by the letters of your mildenesse what the most reuerende patriarch Leo hath desired of your highnesse To these your letters we declare that concerning those things whiche are spoken of the most reuerende Bishop we haue written often times alreadie more fully and more at large by which writing it is without doubt manifest that we haue defined or decreed or vnderstoode nothing besides the fayth of the fathers or the diuine opinions or the definitions of the most reuerende Bishops which were gathered togither in the Citie of Nice vnder Constantine of godly memorie or of late were gathered togither at Ephesus by our precept But this onely we commaunded to be ordeyned that all persons which by noisome hurtfulnesse troubled the holy Churches should worthily be remoued c. Thus doth the Emperour commaunde the Councell to be holden He giueth a generall charge to the Bishops to ordeyne that that they ordeyned to wete the expulsion or deposition of perturbers of the Church whatsoeuer they were and in what matter ecclesiasticall soeuer they were And when the Bishops had according to the Emperours commaundement ordeynes this decrée and in their synodicall discussing of the matter found out Flauianus though therein they did him wrong to be culpable hereof then the Emperor peruseth ratifieth and confirmeth the same their synodicall iudgement and sayth he defined and decreed it himselfe bicause he approued and confirmed their definition and decrée Which is a manifest argument of Thodosius supreme authoritie ouer all the Bishops debatings and determinings of their ecclesiasticall constitutions To the same effect is the other Epistle to Eudoxia Wherin he telleth the Empresse flatly that since these things were alreadie decreed it was not possible to determine of the matter any more In which deniall of suffring the matter to be tryed any further he sheweth also his supreme authoritie of debarring and frustrating any appeales to Rome that you make so great accompt vpon The Emperour will not onely not suffer it to take place and to infringe the Councels and his owne doing but sayth it is impossible to procéede on the matter alreadie determined And thus he reiecteth Flauianus appeale from the Epheâ—…ine Councell to the Bishop of Rome Which Councell notwithstanding should also haue bene held by the Emperours leaue and appoyntment But he would not allow it although Pope Lee laboured to him and to Ualentinian Emperors to Eudoria and Placidia Empresses neuer so much therefore Lo M. St. here are the generalities and the particularities also Wherein ye may sée what belongeth to eyther partie Hearken good M. Stap. and giue good aduertisement therto since ye will not vtter it your selfe and yet woulde haue vs listen to you You say ye wander not in obscure generalities but ye go to worke plainly truly and particularly And yet of all this ye speake not one word Ye would neither answerâ—… the Bishops allegation but set another agaynst it which is no plaine nor true kinde of aunswering neither yet for that you alleage ye alleage it either plainely or truely or particularly as ye pretende But cull out a piece of that that séemeth to set forth your cause by extolling the Bishop of Rome and when the matter is plainly truly and particularly sifted out it neither proueth any supremacie for him and in all poynts sheweth the Princes supremacie against you But ye are the more to be borne withall for I thinke ye read not the whole particulars but either as your commoÌ„ places led you or the title prefixed tickled you that saith In qua quoque Romani Pontificiâ—… authoritas comâ—…ndatur VVherein also the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome is commended And so gréedily ye snatched at that sentence and let go all the residue But call ye this plainly truly and particularly going to worke master Stapleton The. 26. Diuision THe Bishop hauing hitherto as master Feck required in his issue proued by the Scriptures both by the olde testament and the newe and by some such Doctours as haue written thereon and also which was more than M. Feck requested by the ecclesiasticall writers Nicephorus and by some of those Emperors whom they commend for most godly proued the like
if ye meane by this visitation the outward execution of the Church lawes and decrees confirmed by the ciuill magistrate roborated with hisedicts and executed with his sword For in such sort many Emperors Princes haue fortified streÌ„gthned the decrees of Bishops made in Councels both general National as we shall in the processe see And this in christian Princes is not denied but coÌ„mended What the state of the question in hande is the reader hath often hearde How be it such is your importunitie that ye will neuer leaue your olde warbling But for the full satisfying of the Reader berein let him once againe resort to the issue that M. Feck requireth of the bishop to direct all hys foure meanes vnto wherin he would be satisfied And that is conteyned in these flat wordes VVhen your L. shall be able by any of these foure meanes to make proofe vnto me that any Emperour or Empresse King or Queene may claime or take vpon them any such gouernment in spirituall or ecclesiasticall causes I shall herein yeelde c. This then is the state of the question betwéen theÌ„ whether any Prince may take vpon him any such gouernment in spirituall or ecclesiasticall causes as the Queenes Maiestie doth Now wheresoeuer the B. proueth anything by the foure fore said meanes that any Prince hath taken vpon him any such gouernement as doth the Queenes Maiestie in causes ecclesiasticall there the bishop kéepeth himselfe to the state of the question in hande and satisfieth M. Fecknams issue What the bishop hath done in the two foresaide meanes is euident by that that is past let others iudge thereon Here the B. entring into the other two meanes prefixeth this issue againe before him to leuell his proues by The issue is now that by any of these two meanes remayning he shall proue that anye Prince may claime or take vpon him any such gouernment as the Queenes Maiestie in Ecclesiasticall matters doth And where the B. by any of these two meanes shall proue that any Princes haue taken â—…pon them any such gouernment in ecclesiasticall matters as the Q. Maiestie doth there the B. digresseth nothing from his question also satisfieth M. Feck â–ª demaunde This then being the state of the question betwéene them the proofe of any such gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes the B. first setteth here down the particulars that plainly declare what gouernment this is that the Q. Maiestie taketh on hir wherto he must direct his proues So that now that question in hande is this What is that gouernment in what particulars consisteth it that the Q. maiestie taketh on hir Which when here the B. doth specifie in the last Chapter M. Stapl. himselfe commended the bishop for his orderly going to worke therein and now crieth out here is a state framed farre square from the question in had whether it be so or no whether it be not plain dealing of the B. and plain warbling of M. St. let any man be indifferent iudge betwéene them But M. Stapl. sayth the question is not nowe betweene M. Feck and you whether the Prince may visite reforme and correct all maner of persons for all maner of schismes heresies and offences in Christian religion True in déede M. St. the question is not nowe whether the Prince may doe these things that you rehearse or no but the question that is nowe in hand being deducted out of the words of the issue any such gouernment demaundeth first what kinde of gouernment that is that the Q. maiestie doth claime and take vpon hir to the which question the B. aunswereth the gouernment that hir highnesse taketh on hir is such and such c. And so the state of the question is knowne what kinde of gouernment the B. must proue And looke where he proueth any such gouernment there M. Feckenhams request is aunswered And if he can not prooue any such then M. Feckenham may complaine that he is not satisfied And as he is bounde to performe his promise of thankfull yéelding so haue you no cause to warble at this the B. diligent enumeration of those particularities of the principal question least both ye should wander in an obscure generalitie also coÌ„trarie your late vaunt that ye go to worke plainly truly and particularly But sée your falshoode how chaunce ye set not downe the Bishops wordes as he spake them but abridge them 〈◊〉 of thrée parts of them and more crying Here is a state framed farre square from the question in hande Here is a false subtiltie of you M. St. farre square from any truth in hand or out of hande The Bishops wordes are these The gouernment that the Q. Maiestie moste iustly taketh vpon hir in eccles causes is the guiding caring prouiding ordering directing and ayding the ecclesiasticall state within hir dominions to the furtherance maintenance and setting forth of true religion vnitie and quietnesse of Christes Church ouerseeing visiting refourming restrayning amending and correcting all maner persons with all maner errours superstitions heresies schismes abuses offences contemptes and enormities in or about Christes religion whatsoeuer In place of all these wordes euery one béeing materiall to shewe the particular things wherein hir gouernment consisteth that she claymeth you onely for all these set downe these wordes The Prince may visite reforme and correcte all maner of persons for all maner of heresies schisines and offences in Christian religion As though the Bishops particular words specifying the poynts of hir gouernmeÌ„t conteined no more but this Neuerthelesse had the bishop specified no more but these words that ye thus contracte yet had he not swarued from the issue betweene them Any suche gouernment nor from the directâ—… answering to the question declaring any suche gouernment chiefly the chiefe poynts therof that the Quéenes maiestie claymeth and you refuse to yéelde vnto hir For euen these particularities that you set out ye will not graunte without an exception and that is in effecte vtterly to denie them althoughe in daliaunce of spéeche saying in some sense ye would onely séeme to mollifie them For what else meane these your words VVhich perchaunce in some sense might somewhat be borne withall if ye meane by this visitation and reformation the outwarde execution of the Churche lawes and decrees confirmed by the ciuill magistrate roborated with his edicts and executed with his sworde for in suche sorte many Emperours and Princes haue fortified and strengthened the decrees of Byshops made in Councels bothe generall and nationall as we shall in the processe see And this in Christian Princes is not denied but commended Christian Princes haue héere gotten afaire catche by this your graunt and commendation to become your seruants your souldiours your slaughtermen only executing with their swords that you with your authoritie decrée and appoint vnto them Now forsooth a fayre supreme authoritiâ—… But let vs sée how this doth hang togither Ye graunt theÌ„ to visite reforme
estate being higher and so high that God reserued it to himselfe they distrusted the former estate as inferior and desired a visible king among them So that this which you wold draw to the dispraise maketh in deede more to the praise of a kings estate Neither do we denie Gregories sentence in respect of the spirituall prelacie but the question nowe is of the outwarde gouernment of Priests or Princes Which Gregorie not onely acknowledged with most humble obedience calling the Emperour and kings of Italy his Lords soueraignes and lowly bowed himselfe vnto them but also that more is so much detested the claime that the Pope makes now that he calleth the vser of it a fore runner of Antichrist And where ye haue this shift that he condemnes such titles of vniuersal Prelacie in the sea of other Bishoppes but not of his owne this is a false shifte he condemnes it in hys owne Bishopricke of Rome so well as in anye other For where Eulogius the Patriarke of Alexandria had saluted him with suche stiles he answereth Ecce in praefatione c. Beholde in the preface of the Epistle the which you directed vnto me who forbad it ye thought to set in the word of a proud calling naming me vniuersall Pope the which I beseeche you that your most curteous holinesse wil no more do so Bicause that which is giueÌ„ to another more thaÌ„ reaâ—…oÌ„ requireth is subtracted from your selues I seeke not to be aduaunced in titles but in maners Neither counte I that honour wherein I know my brethren leese their honour For my honour is the honour of the vniuersall Churche My honour is the sounde force of my brethren TheÌ„ am I honored wheÌ„ to euery particular person the honor that is due vnto him is not denyed For if your holynesse call me vniuersall Pope he denyeth himselfe to be in that he calleth me vniuersall but God forbid this Let those wordes goe that puffe vp truth and wounde charitie Thus sayth Gregorie and this is cited euen in your owne decrées not onely about the word Vniuersall Pope but vpon these titles Princeps SacerdotuÌ„ vel summus sacerdos the chief of the priests or the chiefe or high priest or any other such titles So farre was this Pope Gregorie then from the pride of the late Pope Gregories that haue bene since for he both acknowledged himselfe to be but equall to other Bishoppes and him selfe and all other Byshops to be vnder their naturall Princes The testimonie therefore of Pope Gregorie is but wrested to vrge suche superioritie of Byshoppes as shoulde deâ—… their Princes supreme gouernmente Now M. Saunders hauing thus as he thinketh fully confyrmed his proues for the superioritie of Priests in the olde Testamente abouâ—… Kings gathereth altogether and knites vp hys conclusion saying VVherefore sithe the institution of Priests proceeded from the good wyll of God and from his free mercie but God graunted not the dignitie of a king but in his anger at the peoples petition lesser consideration is worthily had of the king than of the people both bicause he is made king onely for the peoples cause and also onely at the peoples petition But the Priests although they be made for the peoples cause yet neither onely for the peoples cause but muche more for the honour of Christe Neither onelye at the petition of the people were they made but rather of the free mercie of God and that for that eternall predestination of God whiche was ordayned aboute oure saluation in the tyme appoynted to be brought to effect Ye make your comparison and your conclusion hang illâ—…oredly together Maister Saunders your comparison is of the Princes and the Priests estate and ye conclude that therefore lesse consideration is worthily to be had of the king than of the people How chaunce ye say not of the king than of the Priests but belike ye thoughte that that was oute of controuersie the Priests were so farre aboue the people that much lesse consideration is to be had of the people than of the priests But maister Saunders your beast sacrificed said not so nor your authors Philo and Iosephus but sayde he was made equall to the people But say you the king was made for the peoples cause I graunt ye maister Saunders and was not the priest so too yea doe not your selfe sayâ—… he was made for the peoples cause also if this then argue an inferiorship as in déede it doth in respecte of the ende doth it not argue the priest to be inferior too and lesser consideration to be had of him than of the people that is to say of the Church of God But saye you the King vvas made onely for the peoples cause and the priest was made for the honor of Christ also for the eternall predestination of God vvhich vvas ordained about saluation in time appoynted to be broughte to effect And I pray ye Maister Saunders was not this another cause of making the King also dyd not his estate make to the honour of Christe and represent Christ so well as the Priestes estate was not he called Christus Domini The Lordes annoynted so well as the Priest yea and better to then by your leaue For Christ was not onely figured in the kings estate so well as in the Priests but also toke his humanitie of the race of the kings and not of the Priests and so is called the sonne of Dauid not the sonne of Aaron the king of the Ievves not the priest of the Ievves And though in respect of his priesthoode he was the onely sacrifice of our redemption whereby our sinnes are taken away Christus mortuus est pro peccatis nostris Christ dyed for our sinnes yet notwithstanding resurrexit pro iustificatione nostra he rose for ouâ—…â—…ustification by his kingdome by his power by his victorie by his resurrection by his ascention by his sitting at the right hand of his father in al which his kingdome is contained so that it comprehendeth both our PredestinatioÌ„ and our saluation too And therefore we are taught by Christ to saye let thy kingdome come and not let thy priesthoode come And not onely all our estate in this life and the life to come but all the grace and mercie and iustice and power and glory of God is attributed not so muche to the priesthoode as to the kingdome of Christ. But ye saye God was angrie with the peoples request when he made the kings estate I graunt you Maister Saunders and tolde ye the reason before out of Lyra and the texte is plaine bicause God him selfe was king vnto them which doth not abase but so much the more aduaunce it But now when Maister Saunders hath thus extolled the Priests gouernmeÌ„t of the old TestameÌ„t he abaseth theÌ„ again by comparison of Bishops of the newe Testament saying Sith therefore the Bishops of the Churche of Christ are of no lesse dignitie than
togither that your Pope might haue both powers in him but still what is this to the purpose that Bishops may depose Kings VVhether of these therfore say you shal obtaine the chiefer parts in the body of the Churche shall not the spirituall power which is giuen of God himself by Iesus Christ to that end that it might minister iustice spirite and life vnto vs as for the kingly power came in deede froÌ„ God but not onely properly by Christ as he is the Sauior but also by the sense of the minde conspiring the will of the people whether it were faithful or vnfaithful neither could of it self at any time pertaine vnto heaueÌ„ or minister life vnto hir subiects If therfore the chiefe parts in the body of the Church belong to the spirituall power â–ª truely that ought of righte to gouerne and rule the kingly and all earthly power that is founde in the same body of the Church Yet again M. San. I think aboue twentie times we haue graunted you the due superioritie of the true spiritual power I put to these words due and true bicause neither is your spiritual power the true spiritual power but rather an earthly and carnall power and that spiritualnesse that it hathe is rather from the spirituall power of darknesse than of the spirite of truthe and was neuer of God nor by Christ nor administreth iustice spirite nor lyfe but iniquitie sensualitie and death nor pertayneth to heauen but leadeth to hell I meane the spirituall power of the Popishe spiritualtie The spirituall power of the Ministers of Christe I graunte dothe all these thinges you speake of and therefore it hathe a superioritie but suche as is due vnto it in the ministration of these aforesayde things and not to encroche vpon suche superioritie as belongeth to Christian Princes But to stayne the Princes power you call it earthly and so it is in some respecte but it is heauenly in other respects also bicause it came from God and it representeth the diuine power of god It came from God you saye but not by Christe but by the peoples consent Howe true this is is partly answeres before and S. Paule sayth Omnis potestas est à Deo all power is of God. Is not Christ God howe then came it not from Christ And is not this spoken of the wisedome of God which is Christ Per me reges regnant Kings rule by me You make exception not by Christ as sauiour Is not Christ aswel a sauiour in that he is king as he is a sauior in that he is priest Not that say you the Princes power of it selfe pertaynes to heaueÌ„ or ministreth life What it doth of it selfe we force not M. sand we speake of Christian kinges representing Christe the sauior Not that the Kinges power saueth no more doth the Priestes power but onely the power of Christ that is both King and Priest but that by either of these Christ worketh meanes towardes our saluation and so bothe pertayne to heauen and minister life also the Bishops power in setting foorthe Gods worde and SacrameÌ„ts the Princes power in ouerséeing that both the Bishops and clergie set them foorthe duely and that the people duetifully recoyue them But still what is this to the purpose for the Bishop to depose Princes shall we neuer come to our matter agayne this is a long vagarie But go on M. sand euen whether you list to wander For as in the same body of man all the members ought to obey the commaundement of reason onely of the minde bicause in the same body is nothing higher than the minde so also in the Churche whiche is like a mans body sithe the spirituall power gouerneth as the minde and reason all other power that is founde in the Churche besides ought of necessitie to be subiect to the spirituall power Ought I saye to be subiect not euery where nor altogither but onely in those things that pertaine to the saluation of soules and to the proper iurisdiction of the Churche And haue you spyed this nowe â–ª M. Sanders that the spirituall power in the churche is like to the rule of reason in our body but onely in these things How then pertayneth it to depose kinges to dispose translate and occupie kingdomes to cause subiects rebell which is the proper question héere in hande Do these thinges pertaine to saluation are these thinges the proper iurisdiction of the Churche â–ª then surely it is a proper Churche and it hath a proper iurisdiction or we shall make a proper saluation of â—…oules and you haue made a proper péece of worke so properly to proue your argument of the Princes deposition for the whiche I sâ—…ill â—…rie for some proofe but you haue belike forgotten it For shame M. Saund. come once agayne to your matter but go to nowe at the length you wil drawe neerer to it For if the earthly power do iniurie to the spouse of Christ or do not defende it from the iniurie of other when it may or in any thing faynte from iustice and truthe those that gouerne the church of God ought to admonish the ciuil Magistrate that he should decline from euill and do good But and if the ciuill Magistrate will not so amende himselfe they must make haste to other remedies for it can not be in a wel ordered citie but that for euery euill that may fall out there is a remedie prepared Nowe M. sand this geare beginnes to cotten For remembring at length your idle vagarie you drawe neerer to your matters for the Princes deposing And héere you presuppose thrée things either that the Church hath iniurie offred hir by the Prince either that the Prince where he may defendes hir not from others iniuries either that he himself faynteth from iustice and truthe Héere say you what remedie Those that gouerne the Church of God ought to admonishe the ciuill Magistrate that he shoulde decline from euill and do good For the admonition it is well and truly sayde M. sand and would to God the Pastors woulde thus do in these your presupposed cases â–ª But héere is no deposition of the Magistrate Howbeit craftily euen héere you haue as good as deposed him already For you make your selues â—…ose only that gouerne the Church of God and call the Prince â–ª but the ciuill Magistrate as thoughe he gouerned not also the Church of God and had nothing to do therwith but onely with ciuill affaires and that the Priestes haue all the gouernaunce of Gods Churche But as this is false neither haue you nor can you proue this but still reason à petitione principij taking that for an vndoubted true principle that is chiefly denied that you are the onely gouernors of the Church of God. So nowe that whiche you presuppose in the Prince let vs presuppose the like in you If you that call your selues the Church â–ª haue at any
of Christe for Ieremie is interpreted the highe one of the Lorde who destroyed the kingdomes of the Diuell whiche he shewed vnto him on the toppe of the Mountayne hee destroyed the aduersarie powers blotting out the handewriting of errour in his Crosse. Of whome nexte to the hystoricall truthe it is sayde in a figure VVherefore did the Nations frette and the people imagine vayne thinges the Kinges of the earthe stoode vp and the Princes came togither in one In the place of all these beeing destroyed loste and pulled downe into hell the Churche of God is builded vp and planted Thus saith your owne Glosse in applying this sentence from Ieremie to Christe concerning Christes pulling downe and setting vp of kingdomes And on this wyse oughte the Ministers of Christe to pull downe and set vp kingdomes that is with the sworde of Gods worde to beate down â–ª the power of Sathan the kingdome of errour the buylding on the sandes the workes of sinne to roote vp vices and to beate downe as S. Paule termeth them all strong holdes resisting the truthe of God and to set vp the kingdome of Christ to edifie his Church to builde vpon the rocke to plante vertues and by doctrine and ensample enstruct the faythfull people And so dothe youre owne Glosse interprete it Vt euellas mala destruas regna Diaboli That thou shouldest pull vp euils and destroy the Kingdomes of the Diuell c. and shouldest edifie the Churche Wherevpon saythe the Glosse To foure heauie thinges two ioyfull thynges succeede for neyther can good thinges be buylded except the euill thinges be destroyed neither can the best thinges be planted excepte the worste thinges be rooted vp For euery plante that my heauenly father hathe not planted shall be pulled vp by the rootes and that buylding whiche is not buylded on the rocke but vpon the sandes is digged vp and destroyed with the worde of god But that which the Lorde shall consume with the spirite of his mouthe that is all sacrilegious and peruerse doctrine he shall destroy it for euer and those things that lifte vp them selues agaynst the kingdome of God and truste in their wisedome VVhiche before God is foolishnesse he shall scatter and put them downe that for these the humble thinges mighte be edified And in place of the former thinges that are destroyed and pulled vp those things may be buylded and planted that are conuenient to the ecclesiastical truth of whom it is saide you are the buylding of God you are the tilth of God. Héere M. sand euen by your owne glosse is described what this building and pulling downe is that belongeth to the ministers of Christ so farre vnlike your Popishe buylding that it sheweth the ouerthrowe and rooting vp of your plantes and buylding and howe your kingdome shall vtterly be destroyed In the ouerthrowing of whiche munitions and buylding the truth of God the ministers of Christ muste so set themselues agaynst all worldly kingdomes that fearing not their mighte and tyrannie agaynst the truthe they ouercome them As God sayde to Ieremie Girde vp thy loynes and arise and speake vnto them all those thinges that I commaunde thee Feare not their faces for I wil make thee not to feare their faces For I haue made thee this day a strong citie and an yron piller and a brasen wall ouer al the lande to the Kings of Iuda and to the Princes therof and to the Priests and to the people thereof and they shall not preuaile for I am with thee saithe the Lorde and wil deliuer thee If the kinges of Iuda sayth the Glosse whiche is interpreted confession and the Princes and Priestes and people of it to witte the Bishops the Priestes and Deacons and the vile and vnnoble vulgar people will arise agaynst an holy man let him haue a strong faithe and feare not let him trust in God and he shall conquere them Héere is the conquest of these kingdomes whereby the true Ministers of God shall ouercome all Kings and Princes all Bishops Priestes and Deacons and all the people that resist them But this is as farre from deposing kings from their estates from ruling possessing and translating earthly kingdomes as you that séeke after all these things are farre from Ieremies from Christes and from his Ministers conquests But sayth M. Saunders the Protestantes who can not suffer that the fleshe giue place vnto the spirite or the temporall kingdome to the spirituall for euery where they fauour too muche the fleshe and the worlde before all thinges they alleage agaynst vs the saying of Christe my kingdome is not of this worlde we muste see therefore what Christe in those wordes woulde haue vnderstoode For the Protestantes wrest them hitherto as thoughe the Ministers of the Church of Christ which is the kingdom of God may haue at any time no power ouer Christian Princes or ouer their earthly kingdomes and causes subiect to them bicause the kingdome of Christ himselfe is not of this worlde But in this thing they are too fouly deceyued For it is another thing â–ª not to be of this worlde and farre another thing that the Christian kingdome that is in this world shoulde not be subiect to Christ and to the Ministers of christ VVhen Christ denieth his kingdome to be of this worlde either by the name of this world is vnderstoode sinne and the tyrannie of sinne and the masse of the reprobate as the Lorde otherwhere faithe you are not of the worlde if you were of the worlde the world would loue his owne but I haue chosen you out of the worlde or else by the name of the worlde is vnderstoode all this visible creature whereof the faythfull also are parte so long as they liue heere If therefore by the worlde we vnderstand darknesse and sinne and the reprobates of this world certaine it is the kingdome of Christ is by no meanes of this world bicause all the kingdome of Christe is lighte and darknesse is not in his kingdome who lightneth euery man comming into this worlde But if by the worlde we meane the visible creatures and among them compreheÌ„d the Churche of God verily â—…e denieth not that those creatures are subiect vnto him or that these temporal kingdomes that beleeue in him are comprehended vnder his eternall kingdome But he denieth that his kingdome is from hence that is to say taketh his originall of this world as other kingdomes are wonte to do For the kingdome of Christe sâ—…rang not from the law of nations as other kingdomes do but from the diuine and naturall yea and from the supernatural lawe VVherevpon Augustine marked that Christe saide not my kingdome is not heere but it is not from hence for in the worlde it is but of the â—…orlde it is not but of heauen Héere M. sand hauing as he thinketh confirmed his opinion will now assay to confute our obiection agaynst it And to this purpose