Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	word_n	worse_a	wrong_n	18	3	8.7017	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A90976	The sun out-shining the moon, or, Righteousness excelling rottennness in answer to a lying scandalous paper, published by John Moone, entituled, The true light hath made manifest darknesse, &c. : but it is darkness put forth for light, as it will appear by that which followeth / and is published by John Price.	Price, John, Welsh clergyman.; Bownd, William. Brief discovery of the the erroneous tenets of those who are distinguished from other men by the name of Quakers.	1658 (1658)	Wing P3353; ESTC R43721	30,935	58

THE SUN OUT-SHINING THE MOON OR Righteousnesse excelling Rottenness In answer to a lying scandalous Paper PUBLISHED BY JOHN MOONE ENTITVLED THE TRUE LIGHT Hath made manifest darknesse c. But it is darkness put forth for light as it will appear by that which followeth And is Published by JOHN PRICE Prov. 30.12 There is a Generation that are pure in their own eyes and yet are not washed from their filthinesse Prov. 12.22 Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord but they that deal truely are his delight Prov. 12.19 The lips of truth shall be established for ever but a lying tougue is but for a moment Prov. 14.25 A true witnesse delivereth souls but a deceitful witnesse speaketh lyes LONDON Printed for the Author 1658. READER I Had no desire to appear so publickely neither had I so appeared now if the wrong and abuse had reflected onely upon my self but lest that the truth professed by me should be abused through my being silent seeing that the good will of our God was to deprive me and many more of my Brother Hugh Evans who was buried before the appearance of John Moones printed Paper For if he had lived I should not have so publickely appeared in this Work he being chiefly accused and abused by the aforesaid John Moone And seeing that I am also grossely abused and my words perverted I judge it my duty and know it my liberty to clear my self and others from the aspersions falsly cast upon us and vindicate the truth professed by us I would have the Reader to know that I have no prejudicial thoughts towards John Moone though I have worse thoughts of him then I have of many of his Brethren I would not the least wrong done to his nor their Persons and I would as willingly give them the liberty of their consciences as I would have the liberty of my own Drunkards and Swearers can go without being persecuted neither dragged or haled to Prison when civil sober harmlesse men under the name of Hereticks are abused and imprisoned and be judged by vile carnal unjust Judges who have no Religion nor God but their bellies but if any should say now he taketh the part of those whom he himself opposeth It is true I do so but I do not oppose them peradventure as thou dost It may be thou wouldest have men to be of thy Religion be it right or wrong whether they can believe it or not or else thou wilt have them persecuted and imprisoned and so force them to make Shipwracke of their conscience or to suffer persecution And I would use all Lawful meanes in love meeknesse and tendernesse to convince them of their errors and if I could be a meanes to win them I would rejoyce in the Lord with them if not I will pity them and mourn for them and not seek to destroy them as the manner of most of all Nations is not considering that the ninth hour may be behind or that they may be called at the eleventh hour But thou wouldest have them to observe thy time and not suffer them to stay for God's time or if they will not observe thy time thou wouldest have them destroyed and not suffer them to live until the last hour to see if peradventure they may enter into the Vineyard and will of God and be saved But I shall desire thee and all men to learn of the Spirit of grace and meeknesse rather to pity then to persecute thy poor miserable Brother who was created and estated with thee in Paradise who also have fallen from thence with thee and became Children of wrath and though by grace thou art recovered to a lively hope of that glory that shall be revealed O I say rather learn to pity and to long for the recovery of him out of the snares of the Devil then to hate and persecute him So I leave thee and desire to find thee led by the Spirit of moderation and wisedom and remain a Lover and well-wisher of thy soul and body J. P. Also I desire thee to read and not to judge partially of either side And likewise thou art desired to observe the difference between their words and Papers and ours for I have published several Papers which they had sent to us and also those which we had sent to them Dated the ninth day of July in the year 1657. EPISTLE TO all them in whom a sparkle of true grace and sincere zeal hath once been kindled and have felt the weight and seen the odiousnesse and filth of their sins And by the light and love of the Father being kindled in the heart have seen and judged it but just to deliver up unto death that Murtherer who hath killed the just and so have put on a Righteous Resolution and continueth in the Battle and fighteth under the Banner of God's love and though peradventure you have been benighted in the pursuit of your Enemy and were at a stand in a desolate Wildernesse yet your hatred against the Enemy remaining that is to say your own sins fleshly wills and desires and a longing desire after that peaceable Habitation and life which is to be attained unto through death I wish that Christ's exhortation may prevail with you in this confused age in which there is so many Loe here and loe there Be ye as wise as Serpents and harmlesse as Doves wisedom and Innocency are excellent vertues at all times but especially in these dayes wherein there are so many Forms and Professions of Godlinesse and Antichrist most subtilly hath laid its snare in every one of them and no sooner he is found out in one shape but speedily he shifts himself into another shape or Form and decketh trimmeth sitteth and sheweth himself as though he is God So I desire that you would carefully observe his motions and refuse his society and that you may die dayly to every thing that dieth and so be weaned from the Vanities of this present evil World Chiefly for your sakes have I published somewhat of that which hath passed between the Baptized Believers in these Countries and the people known by the name of Quakers As for the people in general I shall not say much of but chiefly those which I and others in these Countries have had experience of their Doctrine Lives and Conversations they have not been in this Countrey but about eighteen Moneths and to speak the truth they brought many shifts with them but before thirteen Moneths was come about they were worn thred-bare in so much that their nakednesse and shame was seen So I commend you with all Saints to the meek love of God I rest and remain Your Friend and Lover of all them that in sincerity seeketh and longeth after the fulnesse of God and goodnesse JOHN PRICE THE SUN OUT-SHINING THE MOON OR Righteousnesse excelling Rottennesse In answer to a lying scandalous Paper Published by JOHN MOONE Entituled The TRUE LIGHT Hath made manifest darknesse c. THere was a

in the steps of the false Prophets which knowest not the first principle of pure Religion For we say that the first principle of pure Religion was before transgression was and transgression was before repentance And again thou sayest that the light shineth but in some men herein thou art found a liar and wrestest the Scriptures who deniest the Testimony of Iohn who was a true Minister of the Lord who said It lighteth every man and thou sayest some men and not all And whereas thou sayest there is no true Church out of God but are by Faith in God neither doth that Church persecute This is truth and this we own to be ours and we find thee to be in the same Generation who said they were of the seed of Abraham and that God was their Father and Christ Jesus said Ye are your Father the Devil who was a liar from the beginning And there are all them who knows not the first principle of pure Religion strangers to the Covenant of grace and truth and this Covenant we witnesse to be our light and life and by this light we see thee and all the false Prophets to be out of the light walking in the dark world and here thy fellowship is with them who goeth for the wages of unrighteousnesse as thy Brother and Companion John Price who receives moneyes when people are married and when Children are born And now let that of God in all consciences judge whether this be in the Church which is in God or in the world where covetousnesse is And whether you be the Deceivers and Seducers who practise and uphold these things or us who are sent of the Lord to speak against these evil practises And herein we exhort you to that of God in your conscience which witnesse for us against all these evil practise JOHN MOON JOHN DAVIES READER Before I set down the answer to this foregoing reply as they call it which Hugh Evans and I have sent to John Moone and John David I shall give you a Relation of what Hugh Evans was Seeing that Iohn Moone hath the face as to give Hugh Evans the Title of a blind Priest therefore Ishall enforme you of what Hugh Evans was He in his youthful time was bound Apprentise in the City of Worcester to a Clothier and there he learned the Trade and wrought there many years Then in the time of the Wars he went from Worcester to Coventry Worcester being then a Garison for the King and there joyned himself to the Church and wrought there for certain years and being zealous in the Gospel and his love much kindled towards God and man and hearing that his native Countrey was destitute of that means of Salvation that is to say the Preaching of the word and the Ministration of the Ordinance of Jesus Christ he was much moved with love to the truth and to his native Countrey yet not judging himself fully furnished or fitted for that work and Ministry he by the consent of the Church went to a faithful Servant of the Lord Ieremiah Ives and informed him and the society there with him of the necessity of the Preaching of the Word in Wales then were they sent and came to Wales and performed the work which they were sent to do Hugh Evans having no other mind but to return then the Brethren besought him to abide with them the which he accordingly did for the space often years and upwards until the Lord saw good to deprive them of him in which time his Friends can give a large Testimony of his Zeal and labour in the Gospel yet this lying man Iohn Moone hath the face as to say that he was a blind Priest in Wales Here followeth another Paper of Iohn Moone which is like the rest and my reply to it but you shall find more by a Friend of mine who hath been accused for the same things by the forenamed Iohn Moone I went from David VVilliam unto Hugh Evans and John Price to give the said Hugh a Paper The said Hugh and Iohn fell a discoursing with me in which discourse the said Iohn Price said that the Devil was Eternal And he asked me whether I would deny it And I said I deny that the Devil is Eternal and bade him prove it by Scripture but he did not neither would he acknowledge that he told a lie but goeth on in sin beguiling unstable people and herein thou Iohn Price art found one of them who said that God was their Father but they were of their Father the Devil and thou callest the Devil Eternal and herein I see thee forsaking the right way art gone astray following the lust of the flesh living out of the fear of God speaking high swelling words of vanity but is found out among the Dogs and Sorcerers and unbelievers and they who loves to make a lie and before the everlasting fire of the Lord is kindled for the Devil and his Angels And herein I Iohn Moone do bear witnesse that the Lord God of Heaven and Earth is Eternal and what ever is Eternal is one with the Lord God and endures for ever And herein I utterly deny that the Devil is one with God whom thou sayest is Eternal and so let that of God in all consciences judge whether God and the Devil be both one for he that is Eternal is one with God and this is he who is our Salvation for evermore but he who calls the Devil Eternal knows not Salvation for there is no Salvation to be found in him but woe and misery which is the portion of unbelievers and herein we bear witnesse to the truth and against that which is untruth JOHN MOONE Here followeth my answer to John Moones fore-going Paper A word to thee Iohn Moone in answer to thy scandalous Paper which I have received from thee upon the 21th day of the first moneth in the year 1656. in which I find more of thy vainjangling and false accusing as thy manner is seeking to make me and all Saints odious But blessed are ye when men revile you and speak all manner of evil of you wrongfully as thou and thy fellowes do unto me and others who walk in the fear of the Lord and do continue by his goodnesse in his grace to which he hath called and chosen us and established our souls and spirits therein yet you that is to say Iohn Moone and Iohn Davies do call us Dogs the seed of the Serpent and Sons of the Devil and Children of darknesse and presumptuously in the name of the Lord excommunicate us if your cursing could from the love and grace of our God in pronouncing all the wrath and plagues of the Eternal God to fall upon us and saying to your own hurt that you are sent of God so to do I shall not bring against thee any railing accusations but the Lord rebuke thee and touching what hath been said by me concerning the immortality of the Devil It was to

man is in the one way I leave the Reader to judge whether he speaks sense or non-sense considering his following words So he concludes that particular with these words Let the wise in heart judge where the third way is as though his Opposer had said that there were three wayes And in the latter part of his fifth Page he saith That I should say that Faith is not the gift of God a thing that I cannot remember that I had any discourse with him about But whether I have said so or no I tell you what I should say if I should speak my judgement concerning it I say That believing or giving credit to the word of God is an Act of the Creature performed by the Power and ability given him of God as it is written With the heart man believeth to Righteousnesse and with the mouth confession is made to Salvation Rom. 20.20 I marvel how the Quakers and others are so besotted that they do not see that believing or Faith in that sense is a duty required of man upon the neglect of it he is threatned and upon the performance of it he is commended according to Matth. 16.16 He that believeth shall be saved but he that believeth not shall be damned John Moone saith That the Faith whereby a man is saved from his sins is the gift of God And I say If man be not saved from the punishment due for sin that the cause is not in God for not giving but in man for not believing He saith That I spake contrary to the Scriptures Eph. 2.8 By grace ye are saved through Faith not of your selves it is the gift of God I deny not that Scripture Eph. 2.8 but own it and also own Salvation to be the gift of God which the Apostle in that place doth affirme to be the gift of God and excludes all manner of works from having any part or share in the work of Salvation So having no desire to be tedious to the Reader and considering that other mens Pens have passed upon this subject which I esteeme far before my own In Page the seventh John Moone faith That one Rees Davies and another should say That in the Devil there is as much of God as makes him tremble But Rees Davies saith That he said not so but these are the words which Rees Davies said That there is so much fear in the Devil as makes him tremble as for the other I own not his words nor himself neither In Page the eighth John Moone quarrelleth with another whose name is John Prosser and accuseth him of saying That Ribbon and Lace doth adorn the Gospel but the man saith with many witnesses That it is a notorious lie which John Moone saith of him and I believe that there is but few if there be any that will believe that any reasonable man will say that Ribbon and Lace doth adorn the Gospel In Page the ninth John Moone saith That one Evan Oliver should say That God and his grace is not both one whether he said so or no I do not know for he is and hath been in Scotland ever since but I believe that he might distinguish between God and his grace and yet hold Union also And as for our Friend Vavasor Powel I have been informed that he doth intend to answer for himself and judging him to be abler and sitter then I my self am I shall not say any thing of it neither can I well by reason that I heard not the discourse nor have not any account of it But what John Moone saith of it in his Papers which are not to be given credit unto And as for John Moone his Queries in the close of his Book I leave them to be answered by those to whom they were propounded for the life of sanctified and Baptized Believers is hid in God Col. 3.3 Therefore they live not in observation Yet I say That God's people do and ought observe things See Deut. 1● 28 Observe and hear all these words which I command thee Psalm 105.45 That they might observe his Statutes and keep his Laws Matth. 28.20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you So I shall say no more at present in reply to John Moones Paper But desire the Reader carefully to peruse that which followeth and is written and subscribed by my beloved Friend William Bownd And I do earnestly desire that all men especially they that have had any longing desire after God and goodnesse that they stand still and then doubtlesse they shall see the Salvation of God for whiles man is working labouring and moving in his own will He is a stranger to the Salvation of God to which Salvation and gra●e I commend all those that waiteth for and longeth after it and rest Their true Friend JOHN PRICE HERE Followeth under the same Title A BRIEF DISCOVERY Of the Erronious Tenets of those who are distinguished from other men by the name OF QUAKERS NAMELY JOHN MOONE ALEXANDER PARKER And others who own them and their sayings wherein is manifested the right consequences that unavoidably followeth their own words from their own mouths and under their own hands at several times in several meetings With a few words in brief unto several sorts of people in several conditions BY ME Who am the unablest amongst many yet a Lover of Peace and Truth WILLIAM BOWND Prov. 18.17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just but his Neighbour cometh and searcheth him Prov. 17.22 Though thou shouldest bray a Fool in a morter amongst Wheat with a Pestel yet will not his Foolishnesse depart from him LONDON Printed for the Author 1658. A RELATION Of a short Discourse at a place called the Scwryw upon the eighteenth day of the Moneth called February I Hearing that the people which by some are called Quakers were to meet there and that one Alexander Parker was to Preach there that day I knowing my liberty that I might try all thing hold fast that which is good I went there and hearing the said Alexander speaking very often unto the people of a pure principle of God in every man which pure principle is in Egypt in bondage and in slavery in man and must be redeemed And when he had done speaking I was moved to speak these words following Friend Thou hast spoken much unto the people concerning a pure principle of God in every man which pure principle is in slavery and in bondage and must be redeemed I would know of thee whether thou doest own any part in man which is to be redeemed besides this pure principle of God Then the said Alexander drew near unto me and asked me some other question but did not answer to the question which I had propounded Whereupon I told him that I would not answer him in any thing until he had answered to the question which I had propounded And then the people many of them did rage and rail against me with open

mouth carping at they know not what like Dogs barking at the Moon Whereupon the said Alexander fathered that uproar upon me whereas there had not proceeded out of my mouth at that time any words but these above written and then I stated the question again as followeth Question Whether thou dost own a humane soul in man which is to be redeemed besides that pure principle of God He Answered The Soul is pure I replied that Jesus Christ came not to redeeme a pure principle of God but an impure soul Then said he Can the soul be defiled Can the soul be desiled I said The Soul can be defiled and the Soul is defiled through the fall in the first Adam He said The soul is under sin and slavery but it is not defiled with sin Then there was one that stood there for their side stirred up with a very wrathful distempered Spirit and said unto the said Alexander Brother I charge thee before God and these men that thou shalt not speak with this man And when he had thus spoken three times then the said Alexander said That he would not speak with me and so withdrew from me Whereupon I spake unto the people what he had said concerning mens souls that they could not be defiled with sin to the end that all those that see and are not stark blind might have a sight of his erronious Judgement Then the said Alexander drew near me again lest his Errors should be uncloaked and his Doctrine laid naked before the people saying Do not wrest my words I say The soul is pure I denied that the soul is pure to which end Christ came in the Flesh for to purifie impure souls I did bid him prove his affirmative Whereupon one John Moone it seems of the same judgement and Alexander did bid me prove that the soul is not pure I said I was not to prove a negative and so I did demand of them to prove that the soul is pure Then the said Alexander urged that Scripture in Gen. 2.7 God breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living Soul I said that doth not prove what the Soul is but what the soul was Here it appeareth that lest he should receive a total rout or a deadly wound with his own staffe and his false Tenet be stript bare he said that he spake of his own Soul Now a word unto the said Alexander Parker and John Moone who say You speak from the mouth of the Lord and by that infallible Spirit as the holy men of God did and are fully perfect How is it that the said Alexander hath said and the said John Moone seeming to maintain what he had said and if he spake of his own Soul to be under sin and slavery how is it that he is also perfect Or is it not rather clear according to his general Doctrine that day and the question propounded that he spake of every mans Soul but lest he should be trapped in his own snare he said He spake of his own Soul Here I charge thee with a lie either of you shew me if you can which way you can escape it let me see which way you can dawb up this tottering Wall with your untempered Morter or else be ashamed of your ignorance and confesse your Error and repent Now to all you that are impartial and unbiassed that can weigh the truth in the Balance of Justice do I appeal First Whether that Proposition I propounded was a thing needful or material that day Secondly Whether the propounding of that question onely was a cause of an uproar Thirdly Whether it was a difficult thing for me to prove from Scripture that the Soul was defiled with sin Fourthly Whether that Scripture Gen. 2.7 doth prove his Soul or any other man's Soul to be pure since our fall in the first Adam Fifthly Whether this lying and equivocating aforesaid be from the mouth of the Lord and by the infallible Spirit Or whether is it by the Spirit of Error and from the mouth of Antichrist who is the Lord of lyes By one that is embouldened to stand up in the truths behalf to the face of truths Opposers WILLIAM BOWND A Copy of this forementioned Discourse was sent unto John Moone and Alexander Parker After many dayes I received this reply which followeth A Paper I received subscribed by one William Bownd wherein I find several lies and false accusations and lying aspersions cast upon the Messengers of the Lord judging of truth with his dark mind as that Generation of Professors ever did who had a form of Godlinesse but denied the light and Power as William Bownd hath gotten the good words painted himself with a covering but not with the Spirit of the Lord woe is his Portion for and to all who make a shew of Goodnesse but their lives and conversations contrary a blind Zeal but not according to truth and out of that blind zeal doth judge of the things of God judges truth to be Error and puts light for darknesse and darknesse for light as thou William Bownd and all blind Professors ever did persecute and hate them who were Professors and did walk in the life and Power of truth and to thee William Bownd and all people that were present that day at David William's house was the word of the Lord declared a mongst you and that of God in all your consciences shall for ever bear Testimony for the Lord and his word and it shall stand for ever and shall not go out in vain and shall be thy condemnation for ever and all that slight it and his Messengers and we shall be a good Savour unto God both in them that believe and in them that perish and what was spoken there of the mystery of Godlinesse which is hid from all vulterous eyes and venemous Beasts shall stand for ever and concerning redemption and the groanes and cryes of the Innocent that groaneth for deliverance as Israel groaned under Pharaoh this shalt thou Bownd and all people one day confesse to be truth and I appeal to all of that in thy conscience and all peoples consciences when any evil of sin is committed upon the sense and feeling of it many times sighes and groanes will be heard and the groans and cryes are entered into the eares of the Lord of Sabbath and he is now risen in his Majesty and dreadful Power for the redemption of his own people and will burn up the chaffe the wicked and carnal Professors and give them their Portion in the lake of endlesse misery and this shalt thou witnesse when the Book of conscience is opened and the liar hath his Portion And whereas thou Bownd saith That after Alexander Parker had done speaking thou spake unto him Whether he did own any part in man which is to be redeemed besides that pure principle which he had been speaking of and thou sayest he did not answer to the question which thou propoundedst which thing