open a windowe by their doctrine to the Libertines and them that are leade by inspiration and pretende the motion of the spirite altogether to cloke their filthie sinne wickednes vnder if they yet y t say they may not resift the motiōs of y e spirit haue not a better or not so bad a pretence but more religious then they that say they may not vnder paine of damnation doe against reason bee it right be 〈◊〉 wrong which is Philosophical and seemeth to be prophane So againe by their doctrine of inforcement and their threat of damnation against the enforcers of naughtie men to do against their naughtie conscience they vnder mine the lawfull authoritie of Ciuil Magistrates and their wholesome lawes made and executed against sinne and wickednesse and agree too well with the Anabaptistes and suche other as allowe not of Magistrates but as we highly thanke God for her Maiestie and this Gospelling state of whome wee receiue this double benefite first of heauenly doctrine and religion whereby mens consciences out of Gods worde are rightly instructed and informed and these vices and transgressions reprooued and they enforced to haunt publike assemblies heare their dutie there shewed them that either are ignorant or wilfull Next of publike honestie and peace maintained among vs by lawes and the 〈◊〉 of the same pretende they conscience or whatsoeuer condignely restrained and by seueritie punished So againe doe I tell them in a worde that Christes religion taken out of Gods booke if they haue grace to enter the profession thereof will ease all this matter and voide and cleere that which they defusedly and darkely and dangerously teache of an erroneous conscience and the bonde thereof and of perplexitie for in Gods booke they shall 〈◊〉 no such stuffe But the matter being well duly examined their persuasion will bee founde by that booke to bee nothing lesse then conscience and there wee are commaunded to doe that onely that is good and forbidden to doe that is euill wee may not doe euill no not that good may come thereof Or if that like them best let it beare the name of adiuelishe conscience and so to bee refourmed or otherwise to abide the smart which such wickednesse iustly deserueth 〈◊〉 out especially to the hurt of Churche and common wealth Grounde therefore gentle M. Howlet your conscience hence foorth vpon Christe the true rocke and his heauenly doctrine and let Poperie goe Or els bee content to reforme the same by that rule wheresoeuer you haue grounded it afore time Heare if not mee in this case yet some of your owne side to induce you heereto Bee not too much addicted to your D. Thomas and your owne conceite stay not obstinately on the text of your Canon Lawe Be content to heare the glose if he mend the text say better Though there be of your side that say An erroneous conscience bindeth as strongly as a good conscience and that in the worst degree it bindeth a man to doe according vnto it So as if hee doe contrary to it hee sinneth so as his conscience abiding such the man is perplexed till he put it away and an other way his erroneous conscience bindeth him so as if hee doe not accor ding vnto it hee sinneth If hee doe according vnto it he sinneth not which is Iohns case of worshipping the Diuell Yet is there againe some euen of your side that say 〈◊〉 Where a mans cōscience biddeth him that is contrary to the lawe of God it bindeth him not to doe it but bindeth him to lay away his conscience which if M. Howlet and his authours and other our Romane Catholikes at this day woulde haue consulted withall or hearkened vnto they woulde I suppose not haue made so euill a choyse as they doe but haue written otherwise then they vsually nowe doe following heerein the worser sort of their Doctours The wordes of their owne glose in Commentarie vpon the text of their Canon not bearing the vntruth therof in the matter of perplexitie correcteth y e same so forcible is Gods truth in some euen in most popish daies the wordes of your glose contrary to the text are these But wee must say no man can bee perplexed betweene two euils because thence it woulde followe that some man of necessitie shoulde bee bounde to doe euill but the Canon saith that God would neuer render distruction except a man were founde willingly to haue sinned as 23. q. 4. Nabuchodonosor ver vasis irae Moreouer if of necessitie wee were bounde to doe any thing the lawe that forbiddeth it shoulde bee impossible where as notwithstanding euery lawe ought to bee possible as before distinct 4. erit Perplexitie therefore as touching the thing it selfe is nothing but as touching the minde and foolishe opinion of some man there is some perplexitie Wherefore the Iewes were not perplexed vnlesse in mind and therefore shoulde haue asked counsaile of the wiser and better learned as of the Apostles or holy scriptures c. Nowe returne I. M. Howlet to the particular examination of your woordes which that I bee not driuen to repeate I desire the reader to peruse a part as I haue before set y e same down You make your entrāce into this great religious matter of consciēce by a prophane sentence takē out af Aristotles Rhetorique but howe euer this maye serue Philosophicall and your Schoole diuinitie wherewith the 〈◊〉 of Christes Gospell hath of some time beene too much bastarded yet thankes be to God hee hath opened our eyes to see and discerne betweene mans wisedome and the heauenly trueth so as being forewarned by the holy Ghost to beware least any man spoyle vs through Philosophie and vaine deceite according to the tradition of men according to the rudimentes of the worlde and not according to Christe c We meane to take as good heede of your vayne speculations as God shall giue grace that is only good to euery man say you out of your Philosopher which ech mans vnderstanding telleth him to be good vnto which the Scriptures diuines 〈◊〉 Howe then are the counselles and wayes of the Lorde and those of men so opposed in the scriptures the one approued and allowed the other reiected Howe is it so muche and so often cryed out vppon in the Scriptures and men seuerely forbidden to followe their own wayes or to doe that which seemeth good in their owne eyes but that alwayes and alonely which is agreeable vnto the Lord vpon whose direction if we bee his we wholly depende There is hardly any thing more dangerous and hurtfull for men to follow then that which is here made the fountaine of all good vnto thē Did not God to draw frō following y e direction of mans vnderstanding in this life giue his people holy lawes and commandementes to distinguishe betweene good and euill and continually to direct them by that they myght serue him in holinesse and righteousnes in his presence
Heretikes and sectaries as you here report What fauour I praie you deserueth it at y t Queene of Englands hands if this bee true to haue filled her realme with 〈◊〉 and sectaries You plaine next of the good and wholsome lawes here made against poperie and of the execution thereof great cause I trowe if that were true ye falsly and sclanderously say more too Hereto you adioine for proofe certaine particular matters auowing the Loyaltie and obedience of you Catholikes towardes ciuill Princes and sharplie yea leawdlie by sclander charging other w t disobedience This is the some of that you write for the most part in eight of your next leaues A worthie matter to be treated of before her Maiestie when all is well waied But I must somewhat examine there is no remedie what you say a part and in order First you compare diuers religiōs together and shewe that poperie fareth hardely and the woorst Hardly sure can there be founde a worse religion and more contrarie to the sincere Gospell of Christ here professed or that so much troubleth the good and quiet estate of Christs Church in this lande and Realme and therefore needeth most looking too 3 THere are at this day in this your Maiesties Realme foure knowne religions and the professours thereof distinct both in name spirite and doctrine that is to say the Catholikes the Protestants the Puritanes and the housholders of loue Besides all other petie sects newly borne and yet groueling on the ground Of these foure sortes of men as the Catholikes are the first the auncientest the more in number and the most beneficiall to all the rest hauing begotten and bred vp the other and deliuered to them this Realme conserned by Catholike religion these thousand yeres and more so did they alwaies hope to receiue more fauour then the rest or at leastwise equall tolleration with other religions disalowed by the state But God knoweth it hath fallen out quite contrary For other religions haue been permitted to put out their heades to growe to aduaunce themselues in common speech to mount to pulpits with litle or no controulement But the Catholik religion hath been so beaten in with the terrour of lawes and the rigorous execution of the same as the very suspition thereof hath not escaped vnpunished FIrst let mee aske M. Howlet where you were when you wrote thus to her Maiestie you say in the beginning of these wordes in this your Maiesties Realme and in the latter ende againe this Realme Were you at Doway printing your book or occupied in Londō or els where in England about it the booke possible might be sēt to Doway or you bee printing it there another time shift it ouer I pray you Heere your wordes importe you were in Englande when you wrote this preface elsewhere in the same preface they import you were beyond Sea Alyar had neede haue a good memory sauing that you Catholiks can worke wonders and by coniuring make one and the same humane body to bee in many and diuers places at one time A man might make a doubt of this question but let y t passe When you would perticularly reckō vp y e seueral knowne religiōs not all approued nor allowed nay all disallowed condemned sauing that only one which is Iesus Christes but being onely in this Realme ye bring them into foure heads as for the petie sects that you are so priuie of as birds of your own hatching till they be fledge and come abroad that we may knowe them we can say little But your Popish religion M. Howlet were lesse vnhappie and both we the world should be lesse troubled with you nowe a daies if to speake but of religious men besides seculer priests among regulars it had but foure distinct religions and orders of beggerly fryers euery one stoutly standing against other in defence of his Patron and order of religion These be to to many and yet is the worlde troubled with a great many moe for besids the great swarines of these Locustes there be I wot not how many sectes or religions crept in so as the Popes them selues haue bin faine to restraine frō rashnes in instituting mo or newe religions for bringing in confusion And yet obserue gentle reader that the Pope hath authoritie to institute newe 〈◊〉 and none without his authoritie may doe the same obserue also that there be in Poperie old religions and newe religions c. It were 〈◊〉 long to speake of Canonists Schoolemen Thomists Scotistes and such other and the seuerall different opinions they holde but in the late dayes of Poperie here were there not sir as many religions and moe to besides your owne sectes Arrians Anabaptistes Libertines c. Though none in effect were persecuted but the poore Protestantes as ye call them These mens peculiar heresies in examinatiōs were commonly neuer touched peruse the recordes of these there was little or no accompt made in those dayes of ignorance and darkenes while men slept the enemy was busie in sowing his tares As you 〈◊〉 giue here names of sects to bring these times into hatred so all ambiguitie spitefulnes laid aside first take to your selues your religion some fitter name for true Catholiks we btterly denie you to be All are not Catholiks that take the name of Catholikes for so should the Arrians and other herettques in their time haue been Catholikes true Catholikes heretiques sectaries as antiquitie reporteth Under the name of Protestants ye comprehende all those y t forsaking the Pope Popish religion haue betaken thēselues to Christ and his holy Gospel grounding their religion vpō Gods word his heauenly truth comprised in the Canonical scriptures of the old newe Testament written by the Prophets Apostles and thereuppon are called in these tyntes Gospellers a fitter naine than that you call them by Protestants Of which religion and number wee acknowledge our selues to bee and thanke God for the same Cathari or Puritan heretiques I knowe none heere God bee thanked but I ghesse whome you meane Your Authour 〈◊〉 the whotter sorte of Protestants are called Puritans Nowe supposing their religion that you call the Protestants to bee the trueth of God as it is indeede and that you that will bee called Catholikes like not but condemne colde Catholikes as badde ones and require zeale and feruentnesse I pray you tel vs euen in your consciēce if Protestants bee to bee allowed whether sorte of 〈◊〉 are to be liked the whotter or the colder yet such still that ye abuse not your self as with their zeale carry ioine godly knowledge It is good to bee zealous in a good thing alwaies saith the holy Ghost And you wot what is said to them of Laodicea in the Reuelat. for that they were luke warme neither cold nor whot that they shoulde bee spued out We hope that if you whot Catholikes wil allow any Protestāts y e poore
to recouer it Notwithstanding any prohibition of her maiesties by proclamation c yee can and doe write print publishe and scatter your bookes and sedicious libels still although with little vantage and I hope shall with lesse still euery day then other for now you beginne to take in hand not so much to improue our religion or to proue your owne as to inueigh against the ciuill state to confute her Maiesties lawes Actes of Parliament proclamations c. These be fit argumēts for your wise politike head to treate of Such is the respect ye haue to her maiesty y e state your dutie of obedience herein Thinke not M Howlet they be afrayde of you without all cause nowe that when the time was if euer offered your side disputation which your men then refused as I sayde howe and vpon what occasion not they onely but her Maiestie the state and honorable here can very well tell the thing was not done in hucker mucker It seemeth now aboue twentie yeres after that time out of season to craue disputation yet tel me I pray you M. Howlet one thing whether if your request and your fellowes were graunted of Disputation before her Maiestie or such as her highnes should please to appointe thereto if it should so fall out by Gods prouidence that yee should take a fayre fall in the wrestle at your aduersaries hands her maiestie or the other appointed geuing sentence against you would yee acknowledge yee had a fall no nor yet that yee were foyled would yee yeelde and geue ouer your romish profession it is no parte of your meaning I feare me you would plaine of disorder and want of indifferencie and competent iudges c. Some thing or other you would finde to shift of the matter as yee did in the former conference would yee or would yee not What gayned you by that you say You knowe you cannot bee vanquished herein you make no doubt but that Gods truth is clere on your side Indeede there is the matter it is easier to cast you downe than to stop your mouthes If yee cannot dispute yet can you braule and wrangle that is not harde to be done it is an arte easily learned among you For disputation sirs to leaue the disputation in the happie dayes of her maiesties raigne and other long ago to note onely one time were they not of our side that in conuocation in queen Maries dayes disputed with the greatest clarkes of your side when your men ruffled and ruled the rost was not the like agayne done at Oxenford by those reuerende fathers of our side which neuer came thence after but sealed in your vniuersitie after disputation that truth with their bloodes which they had before preached and taught why set you vs not out these disputations truely that the worlde maye see them You are ashamed as seemeth Seeing you write and printe dayly If Gods truth be so clere on your side Why haue ye not al this while set it vs downe in steed of your seditious pāphlets Or why doe ye not yet set it vs downe in your books ye sēd so fast ouer amōg vs cōtaining in maner now a daies nothing but braules grēning groining snarring against the state and her 〈◊〉 wholesome lawes proclamations c for repressing of poperie superstition sedicious and rebellious vsage and dealing that we might haue some fit matter for our profession to answeare more than hath beene alreadie seene wayed and answered furbushing nowe and then vp as hādsomely as you can your rusty stuffe you geue vs but woordes onely without matter your coine that carrieth the Popes marke being brought to the touch and waightes is by long and often triall found to bee a counterfaited coine in steede of good siluer it is knowne to be baser than copper when we waigh and trie by Gods truth that you would haue vs takefor good gold in al the offers yee make vs we finde nothing but drosse Let vs not bring guilefull ballances sayth your cannon Lawe out of Ierome where to weigh that we wil after our owne pleasure saying this is heauie this is light but let vs bring gods ballance of holy scriptures as out of the Lordes treasures and let vs therein weigh what is heauier c. Your reasons in sumine thus waied are nothing but colourable wordes and shewe which in this cleere light of the Gospell wil not satisfie nor serue In vaine therefore seemeth to be your petition your replication explanation supplication your earnest vrging by frendship by request by letters to diuers preachers c. which I thinke is as false as that you report here of the dealing therin with the Byshop of London and thereupon you did well to put it in that parenthesis Ifye be not deceiued As in little or nothing yee be otherwise You forget greatly M. Howlet with whom you deale and to whome you write You make great vauntes and in words offer much you perfourme in deed nothing In your margin is quoted An humble demande of disputation You bring vs that foorth often we know this geare so well at the first sight now as we cannot easily be deceiued It is not the setting on of a fayre glosse or glosing the matter that will nowe serue Is the trueth cleere on your side Why call you it in controuersie then why so earnestly demand and seeke you for disputation for resolution of mens doubtes c. If yee demand conference for your satisfaction or to resolue your doubtes you haue not beene refused nay you haue beene and are still offred it yee are sought vpon and the best of your side here refuse it That may be priuately done if that be your end and some good come thereof But ye demaunde publike disputation yee are earnest therein ye demaunde it againe and againe what is the reason Why woulde you so faine haue publike disputation There must be some honest and necessary end alleadged there must be also by her 〈◊〉 appointmente some Moderators and some order lawefully to proceede therein First haue you talked with the rest of your side are yee all ageed vpon the sute to her Maiestie humbly to desire publike disputations Next if this bee the ende of disputation as you say for the tryall of Gods truth that mens doubtes may bee resolued most necessary for you all to your eternall saluation Will ye then being required yeelde to Gods truth when your doubtes shall bee resolued and sufficiently resolued by the Scriptures and y t in the iudgement of her 〈◊〉 who by Gods appointment hath the moderating of the whole in this realme And in the iudgement of the State here wil you of that side not stand any longer obstinat in your former opinions but giue ouer as Gods faithfull seruants to his truth become professors of the Gospell of Christ abiuring all erroneous and Popish fancies Rearing your religion out of Gods holy booke the sacred
message vttereth it with his owne wordes Wee crye out of the ryot c. Hee may issue from Pope Iohn the three and twentiethes spirit well inough as one of that broode for the agreement that is betweene both As for vs wee may not dislike nor maruel at this choyse of these fathers like Pope like spirite the rather for that wee reade that this foule and vnluckie birde I meane madge Howlet hath aforetime waited vpon the Pope and serued his vnholy holynesse euen in counsell as his familiar spirite whiche is as worshipfull an office I tell you as this carrier and letter bringer serueth in now howeuer the ill fauoured madge Howlet be wondred at among men or other birdes or be taken to be but an vnluckie messenger Let mee bee bolde with thee 〈◊〉 Reader for the satisfaction of some here vpon such resemblance and agreement betweene the parties and other circumstances to set downe the olde storie of the madge Howlet not taken out of newe writers of these dayes which yet haue faithfully and truely deliuered vs the same in wryting as to leaue other those reuerende and learned fathers Maister Iohn Bale in Latine and Maister Iohn Foxe in Englishe our owne Countrey men haue done Neuerthelesse though I agree with them and namely with Maister Foxes storie and allowe the same as fully agreeing heerein with the first Authour and truthe wrangle the aduersarie against those woorthie fathers worthye woorkes as much as he list yet haue I thought good to fetch this nowe out of a worthye Doctour and Archdeacon of our aduersaries owne Church called Nicholas de Clamengiis to whom maister Foxe honestly and truely sendeth vs and with whom also I sawe the booke This Nichol de Clamengiis liuing in the time whē the thing happened wrote the same His booke also was since printed publishd in a Popish time a popish place c. That I say nothing of Orthuinus Gratius cēsure thereon who being a popish priest yet in setting this forth amōg other things denieth not the truth heereof So as the aduersarie cannot easily cauil After this Archdeacon had declared the notoriousnesse of the matter and the good testimonie hee had thereof thus setteth he vs downe the storie aboue eight score yeeres since Balthasar Cossa sayth hee about foure yeeres since called a Councel at Rome c. Nowe at the entrie or before the first session of the 〈◊〉 when Masse for the holy Ghost as the manner is was done and the Councel nowe were set and Balthasar himselfe in a chayre prouided for him on high aboue the rest behold a foule vnluckie Owle which is alwayes a messenger of some corps or other misfortune as they say commeth out of his hole and flickering about with his shreeching noyse stayes himselfe vpon the midle beame of S. Martines temple where they sate in the Councell casting his brode eyes directly vppon Balthasar All there present fel in a wonderment that a night birde which shunneth the light came in the middes of the assembly at brode day light by which wonder and strange sight they did not without cause thinke some mischiefe to bee foreshewed Behold saide they one to another softly the spirit is come in the shape of an Owle And when the rest looking one on an other vpō Balthasar could scarsely forbear laugh ter Balthasar himself vpon whome alone this madge Howlet casting his eyes stedfastly looked did blushe for shame sweate for anger and fretted in his minde and at length not knowing how to helpe otherwise this his so great disgrace breaking vp the councell arose and went his way There followed after another session wherein againe after the same maner the madge Howlet though as I thinke not called failed not to bee present casting still his foule eyes vpon Balthasar which m. Howlet he seeing to be returned was not without iust cause more troubled and striken with shame than afore and not being able to abide the sight of the madge Howlet any longer he commanded him to be beaten away with libbets and clubbes and with crying noyse but M. Howlet neuer a whit disquieted either with their shreeching noyse or other disturbaunce woulde not flie away till with muche cudgeling at him being very sore beaten hee fell downe dead before them all These things saith our Authour learned I of a certaine faithfull and trustie friende who at that time came straight and directly from Rome of whiche I making doubt by reason of the strangenesse thereof my friende being very earnestly sworne Assured me hee told mee that was moste true and added further that all that were present were hereby brought into an vtter contempt disdaine and mocking of that councell and the whole companie by little and little falling away hee affirmed there was nothing at all there doone to any purpose Thus farre Clamengius cited very truely by maister Foxe For the Gentleman the authours worshipfull friende as hee speaketh if there be any suche and he not too farre gone I wish him to bee aduised and take heede what scholemaisters hee betake his conscience to be framed by the matter is of no small importance let him at leastwise without preiudicate opinion heare and reade both sides before hee iudge or thruste himselfe too farre ouer the shoes for our part what euer opinion the aduersaries bee of leauing the rest to hym that is aboue wee desire no more at his handes this is it wee haue from the beginning and many a day sought and requested If hee will heare this counsell hee shall first see that wee drawe him not from the Pope and Popishe religion to carry him to depende vppon any mortall man in the case of religion and conscience bee he neuer so high or mightie but only vppon the true and immortall God of heauen and his sacred mouth Next that wee propounde him not doctrines deuised by mans braine and after recōmended vnder title of the Church to intangle his cōscienee and without eyther grounde or good reason make him perplexed and doubtfull by subtill quidities and questions as these men doe but after we haue brought him to feede in the pleasant and sweete pasture and to drinke of the pure and liuely fountaine of Gods holy woorde which is the trueth hee shall see wee endeuour to vnwrap and vnfoulde his conscience from snares to quiet the same with the true peace of God teaching him to make conscience where God and his woorde woulde and no where els and to looke well to these two points in the case of conscience God may and doth make lawes to bynde conscience withall and onely God may deale therein and no mortall man muche lesse that man of sinne the Pope In summe the more precisely in these matters pertayning to his soules health he shall cleaue to God and his holye truth contayned in the Scriptures renouncing all sectes and partes of whomesoeuer aswell Pope as other the better shall he please I will not say
but through Gods goodnesse vnder her Maiesties happie gouernement haue been now many yeeres trayned vp in the schoole of the holy ghost where if wee haue grace wee haue learned ynough to confirme and stablishe our mindes in the trueth of God and to repell and ouerthrowe all deuises of men Now because they haue by their euill desertes iustly brought themselues farre into hatred least they shoulde seeme common enemies all their cunning of Rhetorique and persuasion muste be applied for the auoyding of this blot hence commeth the dedication of this treatise to her Maiestie and the allegation of conscience But if they can blushe mee thinketh surely they should haue beene ashamed for all their collours to haue offered suche stuffe to her highnesse Princes woulde be reuerenced and their presence eares forborne and spared especially such a Prince as her Maiestie our Queene and Soueraigne is who is after a rare and singuler manner discreete wise and learned whereby shee is able thorowly to discerne and iudge of things shee is godly also and from her infancie a fauourer pro fessor and setter foorth of the Gospel of Christ in her dominions A religion as contrarie to Poperie as God is to the Deuil Bee al former attempts and practises against her Maiestie the state by Pope and Popelings forgotten nowe Or will the bare name of Conscience couer and blot out al Or else bee their stomacks at length come do 〈◊〉 when they haue gone as farre as they can with violence of sworde and such mischieuous dealing to prooue if they can gaine any thing by woorde and fayre speeche in a coloured supplication May there not bee thought lyke poyson to bee offred therein as hath beene founde in former vsage This parlè with her Maiestie if it had gone before violent attempts and shamelesse and villainous writings against her Maiestie might haue caried some shewe or lesse fuspition which nowe is quite otherwise Where is also submission and confession of former misdemeanor to moue pitie Neuer a worde of this nay the whole must be iustified and her Maiestie as I haue saide must take these reasons for al satisfaction though shee haue neuer so great occasion offered her to plaine of vnnatural and naughty vsage of subiects and their trayterous dealing But howe euer things appeare to M. Howlet who is of the night and of darknesse yet may he not in this cleere light of the Gospel to her Maiestie and others speake good of euil and euil of good put darkenesse for light light for darknesse sowre for sweete sweete for sowre and thinke so to preuaile Wee must not beleeue euery spirite but wee must try the spirites whether they bee of GOD It is the light that maketh all thinges manifest And wee bee the children of light the children of the day c. Great iniurie therfore doth M. H. so vntimely out of seasō to shreche in her highnes eares as though her Maiestie were a meete patrone for their naughty causes which common sense and reason if hee coulde harken thereto would tel how vnfit she is for or rather how greatly shee is sought heerein to bee abused by this lewde dealing Howe the breache is made vp againe among the Papists herewith or howe this salue and plaster serueth to cure them I wote not but after their reasons and persuasions haue lōg flown among their companions to dedicate the same at seconde and thirde hand to her Maiestie and that with such an impudent Epistle in so base and meane a subiect as M. Howlet is is vtterly intollerable her Maiestie can iudge wel ynough betweene entising speeches of mans wisedome and the plaine euidence of the Spirit whereof the Apostle speaketh These mens motiues reasons and persuasions being but a fardel of vntruthes neede not to be brought into hir highnesse presence nor be opened to her maiestie That I write in answere hereof is for the simpler sort that they may not bee abused by colourable deceit and onely pretence of conscience to whome I attempter my selfe so much as I may It hath beene an old policie of heretiques to perswade before they teache whereas trueth perswadeth by teaching and teacheth not by perswading as one of the auncient fathers reporteth Howe they teache that they are led in this cause by conscience and how lewdly and diuelishly they and their Popishe Authours whome they followe heerein write of Conscience abusing themselues and their readers but most of al God and his heauenly doctrine because this point is the grounde of the whole discourse and I vnfolde the same at large to auoide too tedious prolixitie I heere leaue it and desire the Christian reader euen for Gods sake but to reade and ponder wel this matter and I greatly meruaile if hee afterwarde abhorre not Popery for euer An answere to M. Howlets Epistle Dedicatorie 1 MY moste exellent and soueraigne dread Ladie and Princes two causes induced me to direct vnto your royall person most gracious Maiestie this present treatise after I had read considered the same The one for that it seemed to mee both conceaued and penned with such modedestie and humilite of spirite togeather with all dutifull respect to your Highnesse to your honourable Lordes of the Counsell and the whole estate of your noble Realme contrary to the spirite and proceedings of all sectaries as none might iustly be offended therewith but only in respect of the writers zeale and opinion in religion which notwithstanding hauing bene from time to time the common receyued religion of vniuersall Christendome can not bee so soone abandoned by the disfauour of any one countrie nor lacke men to speake or write in defence of the same as long as there is either head or hande remayning loose in the worlde 2 The other cause was for that it seemed to mee to containe matter of great and weyghtie consideration and much important not only to the cause of God but also to your Maiesties soule estate and realme and vnto the state of many a thousande of your graces most louing faithfull and dutifull subiectes who being now afflicted for their consciences and brought to such extremitie as neuer was harde of in Englande before haue no other meanes to redresse and ease their miseries but onely as confident children to runne vnto the mercye and clemencie of your Highnesse their Mother and borne soueraigne Princesse before whom as before the substitute and Angell of God they lay downe their griefes disclose their miseries and vnfoulde their pitifull afflicted sase brought into such distresse at this time as either they must renounce God by doing that which in iudgement and conscience they doe condemne or els susteine such intollerable molestations as they cannot beare Which your Maiestie by that which followeth more at large may please to vnderstand IN the two first sections pages of your Epistle M. Howlet are two causes alleadged for the dedication of the whole treatise to
aboue a thousand yeres but to descende for since that time Antichrist and his corruptions haue growen apace in the Churche shewed themselues and preuailed much God so punishing mens ingratitude But if yee ascende from a thousande yeeres if ye list to the beginning of the world and let Gods booke bee iudge wee shut out Aristotle your Philosophers and prophane men in this case you will finde 〈◊〉 vantage not in Auncientnesse though without trueth that were no great matter yet you will stil be found to come after behind giue vs leaue to say as he in old time said christ is my ātiquity Thus if you 〈◊〉 of y e old true religion thus must ye think thus must ye do Thus for trial we wish you to do ioining gods booke euer with antiquitie And so Let that that is first be true let that that is afterward brought in be false As one speaketh Gods holy word is afore al is aboue al 〈◊〉 than al that yee alledge or can do for proufe of your religion carying any good shew with it this is y e touchstone y t we woulde haue our religiō your religiō al religiōs in the world tried by It is a lowd lie a vile slander to reporte crie in her Maiesties eares y t such 〈◊〉 fauour is here shewed on y e one side as that other religiōs thā Christs haue been 〈◊〉 to put out their heads to grow to aduance themselues in cómon speech to moūt to pulpits without controulmét such extremitie on the other side that the verie suspicion of your religion hath not escaped vnpunished by terror of Lawes rigorous execution therof For one part those of your side and godles men among vs by raising slanders haue done what they can from time to time as you do to bring diuers godly men into discredite haue but to much preuailed with some though God hath alwaies giuen 〈◊〉 to the truth cleered innocencie What y t smart of some the whilest hath beene you dissemble euery body knoweth best where their shoe pincheth them I write not An Apologie nowe nor take not vpon mee to enter into euerie mans particular cause to maintaine or defend y t same much lesse to diffame accuse our Lawes and the executiō therof by her Maiesties Ministers I owe more reuerence to the state than so to do I only shew the vanitie of your reporte you can for your vantage finde out tel her Maiestie in this epistle of one whom Newgate possessed long time for his fantastical opinions as you 〈◊〉 speake wherfore soeuer the matter were in deed you vtter your choler nay your malice spight you cannot finde out one of your owne side so brainesicke that euen nowe writing an Apology on your behalfs taketh vpon him by expresse tearmes to confute her Maiesties late proclamations c. You cānot finde one so brainesicke that euen now being obstinately giuen to poperie 〈◊〉 one of his owne fellowes in his heate or rage rather Againe syr may you not remember if it please you of executiō done by fire vpō some in London abroade not long since for heresie which were no Papists nor of your Catholike religion as you define deuide things Was this litle or no controlement Litle surely or none in your opinion so long as it is not vpon your selues But what tragedies make you vs of fleabitings vpon any of your side which yet deserue worst both of church and cōmon wealth Ye thinke to winne by exclamatiō outcry Neuer was there any of your side yet that in her Maiesties daies and happy raigne euer suffred death or was executed for this religiō nor any other that I know for but these few I haue named yet this is y t string ye heere so much harpe on this is your argument that your religiō hath found lesse fauor tolleratiō thā any other newer sect or religiō whatsoeuer yea that the tempest hath been so terrible your persecution so vniuersal as the like was neuer felt nor heard of in England before c 4 THe lawe made by Protestants prohibiting the practise of other religions besides their owne allotteth out the same punishment to all them that doe any way vary from the publike communion booke or otherwise say seruice then is appointed there as it doth to the Catholikes for hearing or saying of a masse And although the worlde knoweth that the order set downe in that booke bee commonly broken by euery Minister at his pleasure and obserued almost no where yet small punishment hath euer insued thereof But for hearing of a Masse were it neuer so secrete or vttered by neuer so weake meanes what imprisoning what arraigning what condemning hath there beene The examples are lamentable and many fresh in memory and in diuers families will be to all posteritie miserable 5 To this nowe ifwee adde the extreeme penalties layde vpon the practise of certaine particulars in the Chatholike religion as imprisonment perpetuall losse of goods and landes and life also for refusall of an othe against my religion death for reconciling my selfe to God by my ghostly father death for giuing the supreame pastor supreame authoritie in causes of the Church death for bringing in a Crucifix in remembrance of the crucified death for bringing in a seely payre of beades a medall or an Agnus Dei in deuotion of the Lambe that tooke away my sinnes whiche penalties haue not beene layd vpon the practise of other religions your Maiestie shall easily finde to bee true so much as I haue saide which is that the Catholike religion where in wee were borne baptized and breede vp our forefathers liued died most holyly in the same hath founde lesse fauour and tolleration then any other newer sect or religion what soeuer 6 And albeit the worlde doth know howe that the great mercie and clemencie of your Maiestie hath stayed oftentimes and restrained these penalties from their execution from the ouerthrowing of diuers men whom otherwise they might and woulde haue oppressed yet notwithstanding as I haue said there want not very pitifull exāples abroad which woulde moue greatly and make to bleede that Princely and compassionable heart of your highnesse if their miseries in particular were knowen to the same especially it being in such subiectes as loued and doe loue most tenderly your Maiestie for such a cause as lieth not in them to remoue that is for their conscience and iudgement in religion ANd because to verifie your infamous lie and sclander in this behalfe you adioyne hereafter particular examples of two learned Bishoppes that are principall dealers in the high Commission for Ecclesiasticall causes vnder her Maiestie thoughe they need not my cleering to her Maiestie and the state that put them in trust yet to open your impudent vanitie and to satisfie such as be not to muche affectionate to your side for the
pray to God yee may remoue it or come out of that diuelish conscience ye seeme nowe to pretende but this therewhilest we warne you of that yee take not the way by abstayning from holy Church assemblies where the proper meanes to winne you to God is to be had 7 BVt nowe these afflictions howe grieuous and heauie so euer they were yet were they hitherto more tollerable because they were not common nor fell not out vpon euery man and if there were any common crosse layde vpon them as there wanted not they bare it out with patience as their discredite in their countreyes who were borne to credite and countenaunce in the same distrustfull dealing with all of that religion notwithstanding their resolute redinesse to spende their liues in your Maiesties seruice and other the like afflictions which they shifted out with as they might But at this time present and for certaine monethes past the tempest hath beene so terrible vpon these kinde of men and their persecutions so vniuersall as the like was neuer felt nor feared before For besides the generall molestation and casting into geales both of men women and children of that religion throughout all partes of your Maiesties Realmes there are certayne perticulars reported here which make the matter more afflictiue As the disioyning of man and wife in sundrie prisons The compelling of such to die in prison whiche could not stande or goe in their owne houses The sending of Virgins to Bridewell for their consciences The racking and tormenting of diuers which was neuer heard of before in any countrey for religion And that which aboue all other things is most grieuous iniurious and intollerable is the giuing out publiquely that all Catholiques are enemies and traytours to your Royall Maiestie and this not onely to vtter in speach but also to let it passe in print to the vewe of the worlde and to the renting of Catholikes heartes which are priuie of their owne truth and duetifull affection towardes your highnesse estate and person This was written and put in print this Sommer past to a Noble man of your Maiesties priuie Counsell for the exciting of him to the persecution of all Catholikes by a strange braynesike fellowe whome Newegate possessed a long time for his phantastical opinions wherein he is so pregnant if men report truely as hee can deuise any newe religion vpon a weekes warning giuen him at any tyme. This fellowe affirmeth there that all Papistes as he termeth them are enemies to God and to your Royal Maiestie The which in his meaning toucheth so neere so manie thousande good subiectes in this Lande as I marueile that eyther his audacitie serued him to write it or M. Elmers officers woulde allowe to print it But it seemeth that Catholiques at this day are made according to the Philosophers prouerbe Praeda Mysorum That is laide open to euery mans iniurie a pray for euery one to bayte vpon and a common place for euery rayler to ruffle on and to rubbe his cankered tongue in their slaunder In all which great wrongs they haue no appeale but vnto God and to your Maiestie as Vicegerent in his place before whome they desire aboue all other things to cleare themselues from this greeuous obiected cryme of disloyaltie by protesting and calling the omnipotent knowledge of our great God and Sauiour to witnesse that they are deepely slaundered in this point and that they are as readie to spende their goodes landes liuings and life with all other worldly commodities whatsoeuer in the seruice of your Maiestie and their Countrey as their auncitours haue beene to your Noble progenitours before this and as duetifull subiects are bounde to doe vnto their Soueraigne Princesse and Queene only crauing pardon for not yeelding to such conformity in matters of religion as is demanded at their handes which they cannot do but by offence of their consciences indu ced by those reasons which more at large are declared in this Treatise following NOwe leauing the bragge you make of your resolute readinesse to spende your liues in her Maiesties seruice which as hitherto she hath not so God graunt shee neuer neede to proue your fidilitie and of your patience in your troubles dreamed of rather then founde proceede I M. Howlet to your newe persecutions and extremities as yee call them in deede to your shamelesse slaunders charging particular personnes before her highnesse whose chaste eares vnwonted to such impudencie you shold at least haue spared but yee make no accompt of that The other dealing beseemeth you well ynough whereupon making your entraunce vppon generalles still as true as the 〈◊〉 you talke of casting into Geales both of men women and children of your religion throughout all partes of her Maiesties Realmes Fye for shame are yee not ashamed tell trueth and expresse the cause wherfore or else peace Lying lippes are abhomination vnto the Lorde but they that deale truely are his delight Prou. 12. 22. Hee that dissembleth hatred with lying lippes and he that inuenteth slaunder is a foole c. Prouer. 10. 18. It is possible to bring some examples of imprisoning whipping and burning too of some children and infants of our mens in your kingdome besides women and men young and olde Let Bonner that dead is goe and other his mates Heere I remember what befell a woman in the Isle of Guernezey and her infant in the late dayes of persecution vnder Queene Marie howe both were cruelly burned the storie is to bee seene the people of the Countrey testifie of y t crueltie and the truth of the matter the deane and other that gaue the sentence aliue very lately and I thinke still and diuers of the executioners in her Maiesties dominions and out of prison too The profession of y e Gospel followeth not your Romaine Catholikes in thirsting after blood her Maiesties royall brest and her people and Realme except it bee a fewe that growe out of kinde are free from such barbarous and sauage crueltie Her Maiesties wil is it shoulde be so God be thanked therfore Leauing generals which yee plaine of but proue nothing yee come with like proofe that is none at al to particulars reported heere say you but by whome vpon what credit you say not of you and vpon your owne credit wholly At first clap you charge two not of the meanest bishops in this lande what dare not you doe to meaner personages but the best is you shewe what you are and what credit is to be giuen to you Your reports are lies and too shamelesse yeedeclare at pleasure in your Epistle of disioyning of man and wife in sundrie prisons c. What were your not disioynings in sundrie prisons but violent diuorcements of man and wife pronouncing the same without all warrant of God his worde to bee whoredome and worse then whoredome when it was Your hote burning if not both the maried couple yet one leauing the husband a
that the crime of Disloyaltie is obiected vnto you c. Heereuppon you puffe and fume or woulde seeme to bee angry yee amplifie the matter yee apeale yee protest yee bestirre you euery way heere is praeda Mysorum expounded and set out with dogge Rhetorike and much adoe The thing might haue been 〈◊〉 taken and vttered with more 〈◊〉 and modestie and your deedes if yee had any might better cleere you with wyse men than wordes will Your iudgement of the man in this passion and in your owne case will hardly bee esteemed This vpbrayding of imprisonment this charging with phantasticall opinions and shewing none and saying that the man with whome yee are 〈◊〉 can deuise any newe Religion at any time vppon 〈◊〉 weekes warning giuen him grounded but vppon this if men reporte truely This vncharitable and naughty dealing I say may sauour of immoderat choler and heate but of litle trueth or honest modestie you would scarsely be content to bee so vsed your selfe Though it bee no parte of the matter to stande in defence of particular men and their 〈◊〉 neither take I great delight in that course yet if that be the partie ye quote in your margine M. Howlet I answere not by reporte and heare say as you too lightly doe but vppon better knowledge that it is very vntrue a slaunder that you reporte of his deuising of any newe Religion vppon a weekes warning c. And that hee hath beene knowen neuer to haue altered his iudgement in Religion since hee first entred the profession thereof and at this day also thankes bee to God keepeth the true paterne of the wholesome doctrine of saluation and constantly trauaileth for the mainteynance of the Fayth against you and such other as fallen into Heresie impugne the same It maketh no great matter what you reporte of him or such other when almost yee can say well of no good man the worse hee heareth of you in this case the better wil hee bee liked among the godly Touching the matter I would your deedes M. Howlet and your fellowes did not plainely confirme and approoue that hee writeth if you bee so stifly addicted vnto Popishe heresie as yee seeme to professe and so obstinate in refusing by othe to acknowledge her Maiesties Soueraigntie giuen of GOD and by lawe propounded to her subiects heere Thinke not that it is this man his singular opinion in wryting and printing but the common opinion heere of the best that in the case you are ye be enemies to God her Royall Maiestie and the State that worse tearmes also may beseeme you your deserts wel ynough Bee not angrie therefore at this your to much stirring will but increase the opinion of you Haue you beene all this while in laying downe your griefes in disclosing your miseries and vnfolding at large nowe your pittifull afflicted case and such intollerable molestations as you cannot beare brought into such extremitie as neuer was hearde of in Englande before And is all come to this that the geuing out publikely in print of these woordes that al Papists are enemies to GOD and her Royall Maiestie is aboue all things the most grieuous iniurious and intollerable Is this the deepest wounde and the greatest hurte yee haue Is this such extremitie as was neuer hearde of in England before Alas seely mouse that appeareth after the mountaines great trauaile I woulde when your side commaunded wee had beene persecuted but by tongue and penne Is that bloody persecutiō forgotten nowe these 〈◊〉 man but wordes and in your owne estimation but the wordes and opinion of a straunge brainsicke fellowe holding phantastical opinions and vyle in the reputation of the worlde what neede you bee so much moued thereat Yee are of a noble courage file not your handes vppon euery one yee meete I see M. Howlet your choise and meaning heerein cunningly to seeke to treade vpon the hedge where it is lowest you are commonly in extremities either with the greatest or the least you can hardly keepe the golden measure and meane in any thing This renteth your Catholique hartes forsooth which are priuey of your owne trueth and duetifull affection towardes her highnesse estate and personne woulde to God that that is so priuey to your selues vnknowen to others her Maiestie at least to whome it appertaineth might bee made priuey to in deede by your submissions to her authoritie renouncing all foreigne power I woulde yee woulde haue made her Maiestie priuey before yee ran away made your selues slaues to that Beast of Rome I woulde before you had thus dealt with her Subiectes and Printed your booke without her leaue and against her minde you would haue made her Maiestie priuey of y e matter I would you would yet now at the lēgth returne home vpō her Maiesties commandement and intimation giuen vnto you of her pleasure and doe as some of your fellowes companie doe repent and stande to her Maiesties mercy Ye need not be ashamed nor afrayde you shal haue examples here before your eyes of honester men I feare than some of you will prooue except you doe the lyke This is good sooth and trueth and the duetifull and bounden affection of subiects this is good plaine English dealing man without Romish farded 〈◊〉 or deepe Italian fetches if yee bee so desirous to cleere your selues as yee pretende yeelde to this motion in time Otherwise your Rhetorique is but colde it perswadeth not all that you say or can say for your selues hath been is considered it is hardly worth the hearing Hee that prayseth him selfe is not allowed but hee whome the Lorde prayseth How if her Maiestie reply relie as you speake vpon her iust interest how if shee say ye plaine more than ye neede or haue cause for if this mans wordes be the worst is done vnto you that you make much adoe of a litle or nothing in comparison howe if her Maiestie tell you where the trueth of the matter is to bee tryed in deedes and good euidence words are in vaine and preuaile not howe if therefore shee 〈◊〉 you leaue flourishing that is a vaine praysing and vaunting your Loyaltie in glorious wordes set out with colors of petre Rhetorique 〈◊〉 you for her satisfaction and assurance goe to the matter and by taking the othe of submission testifie and approoue your obedience and shame your aduersaries that way Let another man praise thee saith the wise man and not thyne owne mouth a stranger and not thyne owne lippes Namely wee are bidden there Not to boaste our selues before the King You keepe no measure 〈◊〉 M. Howlet And in refusing conformitie to take the othe of obedience and to goe to Church vpon the reasons of the treatise folowing Ye maintaine a very corrupt conscience if it may beare the name of conscience which is so ill staied If words may be receiued your pay verely is good if deeds bee required your money is not currant That
many pointes We are not we may not nor no reason why wee should be y e mainteiners of any mēs errours This article as it is set vs downe here by you is That I may say what seemeth to me not only false but also seditious so is it reputed amōg vs y t which ye father vpō M. Wickliffe here agreeth better with the Pope and your Popishe religion then with the Gospell of Christ and our religion Doth not your Pope and Popishe religion disable and seeke to dispossesse any lawfull prince onely supposed by those of your side to fall into the mortall sinne of heresie and arme his subiectes against him Your selues also must define both mortall sinne and heresie too full euill fauouredly ywis as al men may easily see Did not Wickliffe in his life time write that the Clergie moued by the Fryers went about that matter here in Englnade hath not the Pope your father claymed the ryght of disposing all ciuill and earthly Kingdomes hath he not called the King of England to omit other his vassall as though he held his kingdome but as his tennant and at his pleasure I haue shewed you before where you shall finde our doctrine and profession of Magistrates more sounde holy and reuerent then yours els woulde I be ashamed of it But you will say you sende vs to the places where we shall finde that this was Wickliffes doctrine howe say wee to that I say you doe it full ilfauouredly you quote vs in deed three places whereof two are pretended to bee taken from the lying spirites and wrytings of Gods aduersarie and Wickliffes The third vntruly as farre as I can see out of his owne workes whiche are very hardly come by nowe a dayes and yet as I coulde recouered I 〈◊〉 Trialogue And I haue read read againe the thirde Chapter of the fourth booke of Wickliffes Trialogue where you sende vs to seeke that yee impose vpon Wickliffe whereof I praye you entreateth hee there for sooth this is the argumēt To shew in this speech of Christ This is my body What is signified by this woorde This. wherein establishing the truth he mightely ouerthroweth your Popish corrupt doctrine of this Sacrament Now for M. Wycklyff to teache in that place the article you set vs downe were nothing to the purpose And this I say if any such worde as ye reporte be in this place ye send vs vnto let me leese my credite for euer if not let y e Christiā reader take heede for euer howe hee trust your lying spirite in quoting things Howe can you reporte trueth of vs when your religion forbiddeth to reade our wrytings vnlesse it bee to reprooue them yee knowe your owne tearmes best Yee take al one from anothers reporte and beeing our sworne enemies howe is it to bee thought you will reporte truely of vs and of our opinions and wrytings but the fault may possibly bee in the Printer or you taking this from your Authours second promised parte vnperformed yet might bee deceyued as indeed you or hee set vs downe in another place this article to bee in the 36. chapter of the 4. booke of Wycklyffs Trialogue Thus your Authour and you leade about the reader vncertainly not knowing where to seeke y t you alledge There is as much to be had of this article in the 36. chapter of that booke as in the place before alleaged which is nothing at all The matter hee handleth in this 36. chapter is how Fryers so greatly poysoned kingdomes wherein they dwelt as in those dayes they did So wee send you still to seeke vs a newe place for this article in Wycklyff Marke your wordes Cogge not foyst not Tell vs where the wordes as you set them downe be to be had Tell vs not what begging and lying fryers may haue deuised or your enuyous Papisticall wryters of this mans doctrine you set vs the article downe as though it were his owne woordes I am not ignorant that in Wycklyffs life time not much an vnlike slaunder as the latter part of your article containeth was raysed against the profession of the Gospel by the wicked fryers that then liued Nowe come I to the two other places you send vs vnto in your marginall quotation I meruaile you bee not ashamed to sende vs for the report of Wickliffes doctrine to his so deadly enimies one of the testimonies is fetched but from a yesterdayes byrde to speake of who was vnborne many yeeres after Wickliffe was dead I meane that obstinate enimie to Christes Gospell brawling and rayling Cocleus who is saide to haue died 1552. well toward 200. yeeres after Wickliffs daies whose bookes long before y t time being condemned to be burnt were then hardly to bee gotten neither sought after but to that end nor regarded by those of your side but let that enimies testimonie of Wickliffs doctrine goe as not worth the examining The Councell of Constance remaineth as the thirde testimony herein It seemeth yee make great account of that for you set it in the first place you will say peraduenture it is a publike testimonie is grounded vpon moe testimonies also I reade Wickliffes articles set downe by diuers and confuted by some of your side yet doe I not finde by the former reporters no not Popes and Papistes that liued about that time this article as you set it vs downe and in this Coūcel of Constance you 〈◊〉 not this article you charge him with heere so are you a false reporter of the Councell too Which I say not to 〈◊〉 their spight and hatred that were there assembled against poore Wickliffe and suche other Wickliffes bookes 〈◊〉 then before that time were condemned to bee burnt so 〈◊〉 no man might reade keepe haue or vse any of them but to their reproof hee also was before the assembly of that 〈◊〉 many yeeres dead and was by the vnholy fathers 〈◊〉 assembled appointed to bee taken vp againe and his bones to bee burnt so feruent and hot was their Popish charitie or rage rather according to their custome in these later tymes Nowe when Wycklyff was dead and his bookes thus consumed by fire no mastrie for them that had al the world at will and commandement to make men beleeue Wycklyff wrote that which they his mortal enemies listed to charge him with but let thē beleue it that list we are not bound to their report And yet syr though that conncel set Wycklyffs articles downe to malicioussy we finde not this article in y t Sessiō of y t coūcel y e you set vs downe If you referre vs to y e 15. article there set downe against Wycklyff you take away for your vaūtage you spightfully adde as good as halfe in this article you set vs downe other enemies to y e Gospel to Wycklyff afore tyme haue delt lesse shamelesly in setting downe this article then you doe so doeth at this day Saunders your owne
with victorie the ambitious with honor the couetous with monie c. scripture diuines to agree with this hellike doctrine God forbidde Wee haue better Schoole maisters then so thankes bee to God Euery good giuing and euery perfect gift is from aboue and commeth downe from the Father of lyghts c. euen to this father of glory must we pray for this gyft of wisedome and reuelation through the knowledge of him that the eyes of our vnderstanding may bee lightened that wee may knowe what the hope is of his calling c. It is a seconde grace and gyfte that I may so speake aboue and beyonde nature and the lyght thereof or eche mans vnderstandyng Your Saint Thomas if you woulde haue consulted but with him would haue tolde you as muche Searche the Scriptures Are yee not therefore deceyued because ye knowe not the Scriptures c. sayth our Sauiour Christ heare him As all poyntes of Diuinitie and Religion woulde bee grounded on Gods booke and the Scriptures not vpon the Philosophers and Rhetorique so especially when there is question of conscience or of doing or not doing thereafter in matters of religion shoulde wee haue recourse vnto that heauenlye 〈◊〉 but yee say The Scripture and Diuines agree to this sentence of the Philosopher when they say That we shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie our of conscience Make this sentence playner and expound it not by the first least both fall out to be very false very pernitious the better of the two make of it what you can is very perplexed darke and doubtfull at least as you set it downe and followe it This may be propounded in lecture among you by him that is your publike reader in the cases of conscience but wee haue seene to muche of your Schoole diuinitie and diuelishe doctrine in conscience to haunte your Romishe lectures or receiue that is therein taught and professed Our senses are better acquainted with the phrases of the Scriptures If this latter sentence be all one with the other and first cited out of Aristotle thē might you haue spared your Philosophers Rhetoricall sentence and rested vpon this whiche yee pretende to take out of the Scripture and Diuines The heauenly Scripture hath no neede of mans wisedome to bee vnderstood sayth one but 〈◊〉 y t reuelation of y t spirit but first I tel you I find not y t words ye set vs downe in those Scriptures whiche yee quote vs in the margin yee tell vs of beeing iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience yee sende vs to 2. Cor. 1. and to 1. Iohn 3. The Apostle in the place ye poynt vs speaketh more particularly of the testimony of a good conscience onely and of his owne that hee had in this worlde his wordes bee these Our reioycing is this the testimony of our conscience that in simplicitie and godly purenes not by fleshly wisedome but by the grace of God we haue had our conuersation in the worlde c. Marke here that Saint Paul had his conuersation in the worlde not directed by his owne vnderstanding As your Philosophical sentence pretendeth not by fleshly wisdome but by the grace of God in simplicitie and godly purenes The testimonie of suche a conscience is a goodly matter and to bee reioyced in in deede let it bee if you will a 〈◊〉 feast c. And this is the oddes here betweene a heathen and a Christian life yet doth not the Apostle in this place saye generally that wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience neither yet of him selfe sayth hee so muche speaking of the testimonie of his own conscience Though I deuy not but y t faithful being receiued 〈◊〉 by gods mercy ingraffed into Christ by faith shall haue matter of 〈◊〉 in a good conscience in wel doing euen at the last day But you carry it further The Apostle in another place speaking of his fidelitie in his Ministerie and of a better conscience still then you seeme hereto note sheweth yet a higher Iudge rather and more sharper of sight who will iudge him more thoroughly then according to his owne vnderstanding and conscience Nay as one that durste not iustifie him selfe though his conscience charged him with nothing in his function hee reiecteth that iudgement from himselfe and from all men also as vnfitte and vnsufficient vnto the Lorde himselfe who at his comming will lighten thinges that are hidde in darkenesse and make the counsailes of the hearts manifest The other place yee cite to shewe wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to our conscience is out of Saint Iohns Epistle where thus it is written I must ghesse because yee neyther set downe the wordes nor the verse For thereby that is by louing in deede and truth wee knowe that we are of the truth and shall before him assure our heartes For if our heart condemne vs God is greater then our heart and knoweth all things Beloued if our heart condemne vs not then haue wee boldnesse towarde GOD. Here the Apostle speaketh of that boldnesse and enterance with confidence that the faithfull here haue towardes God by Christ Iesus and by fayth in him of the benefite thereof whiche as by a certaine marke is expressed by true and vnfaygned loue and of the lacke of this full perswasion againe what a losse it is here is nothing spoken of our being iudged at the last day according to our conscience And this is all I finde of this matter in the places of Scripture here alleadged For the Diuines that ye talke of because yee quote vs Augustin alone for all sende vs to two places 〈◊〉 him and the matter is not great what is there saide I referre it to the learned Readers iudgment that is disposed to examine the places You report heere bring in Austin for proofe that wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience Where Austin speaketh not of the iudgement of the last day in neither of both the Chapters Consult therefore with them from whome ye tooke these places that they may appoint you fitter for the purpose or you better followe the simplicitie and sinceritie of the sacred Scriptures If yee say Austin name conscience or speake a worde thereof in both the Chapters I graunt you 〈◊〉 you must remember with all that euery thing may not be gathered of euery worde The two places much agree the first yee recite hath relatiō to the latter hee saith not that whiche you speake heere Againe speaking very briefly as for a conclusion of his first booke of Christian doctrine Of this sentence of S. Paul The end of the commaundement is loue out of a pure hearte and of a good conscience and of faith vnfained hee sheweth wherefore the Apostle put in that
restored y t publike exercise of religion here liueth God be thanked and long may shee liue None of you haue seene any suche in clination to Alteration in her Maiesties constant setled minde as you in fancte imagine besides this her Maiesties 〈◊〉 most milde and quiet gouernment in the time of y e Gospel to all our great comfortes doth not procure nor deserue any such thing at her faythfull subiectes hands nay besides dutie this dealing purchaseth the contrary and keepeth the subiectes in merueylous contentment commonly and liking where as the intollerable yoke and insupportable burden that you put vppon this lande more then haled wertsomnesse and desire of alteration in the time of superstition When you talke of your newe persecution if you meane thereby the committing of such to warde as of late came from the Pope Rome for their seditious attempts heere in Englande or the repressing of the violent rebellion against her Maiestte and the State in Ireland we answere y t ye might better haue sit stil like good Christians true hearted Englishmen and subiectes or haue chosen an honester course then by rebellion treason so to haue troubled the peaceable state of 〈◊〉 Church and Realme prouoking and enforcing her Maiestie who beareth not the swoorde for naught to drawe out the same to crosse and stay your violent disorders You offer to enter by sedirion her Maiesties dominions violently You offer to poyson and corrupt the mindes of the good and simple subiectes This and such offers of yours wee are too well acquainted withall other your offers and oddes wee commonly know no more of then you reporte vnto vs you pretende not by your offers any recouerie of lofses c. If they bee any who put you to them but your selues that will needes runne into them headlong You tell what you pretended not I woulde you had in time as well tolde what your pretence and meaning was that it might haue beene with lesse adoe preuented you haue long hoped after a day ye thought it had beene nowe come But as God would you hope without your hope your end is to iustifie your cause Whervpō the honor of god depēdeth If Gods honour depēded on the iustifiyng of your cause it should hang but vpon a weake twined threed but he hath not put it into your hands sirs it is better grounded and staied than so There is no profession at this day in Christendome wherein God is more dishonoured thē in yours Ye tell vs ye knowe yee can not bee vanquished yee tell vs also of our weakenes a 〈◊〉 shewing greater pride thē modest wisedome You knowe more of your selues then all the worlde doth besides yee are deepely seene in your owne cause Either you neuer felte or neuer well considered the forces of your aduersaries at least you are blinde and therby cannot well iudge of them As God be thanked you gaine little nowe a dayes where vpon vsurpation you violently inuade lawfull princes countries with sworde vpon confidence of the Popes authoritie that way God so mightily defending and maintaining his seruantes ministers Princes and ciuile Magistrates and looking with a watchfull eye to his Institution and ordinance So gaine you as little or lesse the other way because you stay altogether vpon Sand vpon fleshe worldely pollicie man c. And the weapons of our warfare are not carnall but mightie Yet through God to cast down holds c Ours is the sword of the spirit which is the word of God liuely and mighty in operation and sharper than any two edged sword 〈◊〉 through euen to the diuiding asunder of the soule and the spirite and of the ioyntes and the marrowe and is a descerner of the thoughts the entents of the heart c. Your Fortes are not imprennable nay they fall of thēselues and moulder away They are weake They are rotten your walles be but of Broune paper The best and surest fort in this that ye call your newe persecution was in Ireland wherin after rebelliō there stirred vp by you ye much trusted That God be thanked through his blessing was by her Maiesties prouident care forces soone destroyed c. If the secular arme and forces faile you if fire and fagot be taken out of your hands or your cōsuming flames quenched yee can long holde in no place God haue the glory for both taking those weapōs from you and so gloriously by his heauenly Gospell triumphing ouer you in these latter daies among other princes let her maiesty our dread soueraigne haue her singular and due commendation in this work as Gods speciall minister to al true englishmens vnspeakeable comforte we haue had good triall of you by experience and that maketh you to bring the authoritie of Kinges and other vnder the pope to be at his deuotion but all in vaine for ye resist against God and his eternal truth you should doe well not to boaste nor triumph before the victorie you know how the king of Israel answered y e proud threat of Benhadad y e king sometime of the Syrians Let not him saith he that girdeth his harnes boast himselfe as he that putteth it off 14 AND to tell your Maiestie more in particular there hath beene diuers earnest meanes made and most humble petitions exhibited by the Catholikes that seeing those men which first challenged at Poules Crosse al the learned of our side that might be found eyther to writing or disputing afterwarde procured your Maiesties prohibition by proclae mation that no bookes should be written or read of that parte in England their petition was I saye that at the least there might some publique disputation be admitted whereby 〈◊〉 doubtes might be resolued This petition hath beene exhibited by dyuers men in the name of the whole both in writing and in print they haue beene vrged by sundry meanes by al kinde of friendship that we could make by humble request by earnest letters to diuers preachers to further the matter if I bee not deceiued to my Lord of London himselfe for the bringing of the matter to your Maiesties vnderstanding and to the consideration of the Lordes of your highnes priuie coūsayle And if by any mischaunce these former supplications came not to light or expressed not fully the Catholikes plain simple meaning es I beseech your most gratious Maiestie that this may serue eyther for a replication or explanation of the same wherein I in their names most humblye on my knees euen for Gods cause and the loue of his truth aske at your Maiesties handes that some such indifferent tryal may be had by publike disputation or otherwise YOU tel further of meanes made of challenges petitiōs writing disputing prohibitiō I wot not what neyther truly nor to purpose greatly writing vpon the occasion of chalenge at Paules Crosse that ye mencion hath since geuen your side such a woūd as I think you wil neuer be able
scriptures directing ruling your consciences thereby On the other side againe wyll you as honest dutifull Subiects renouncing all forraigne power of Prelate Prince or Potentate whatsoeuer betake your selues hence forwarde to bee gouerned by her Maiestie and the temporall lawes of this lande and such Statutes as for the good and peaceable guiding thereof be by her Maiestie the State made agreed vpon in the high court of 〈◊〉 according to the order of this Realme What say you to this condition I aske you because I am in doubt whether you will in the ende stand to the resolution and iudgement of her Maiestie the State herein Nor to any in deed but vnto your Pope your selues and yet had yee neede I tell you resolue be resolued in this point before you make sute to her maiestie so earnest sute to haue publike disputation as wherevpon your eternall saluation dependeth c. And to this point answere hardly in your next writing for in this Epistle DEDICATORIE your wordes hetherto seeme to imploy som cōtradictiō in this matter or els your sute seemeth yf not hollowly yet cunningly made to your vantage but preiudiciall and perillous to this quiet and peaceable state setled nowe aboue these xxii yeeres together in this kind of gouernement of reiecting the authoritie of the Pope of Rome and Popish religion and receiuing the profession of the Gospel and acknowledging her Maiesties Royall soueraigntie ouer all States and degrees All which is wel and sufficiently warranted and maintained by the expresse testimonie of Gods holy worde and the wholesome lawes of this Realme as hath beene and is still both for the one the other by proofe published to the viewe of all the worlde You M. Howlet and your late start vp Iesuites and other English Romanistes or Rhemistes to be plaine with you are too weake in the shoulders God haue the glory to take in hande by disputation or otherwise to vndermine or shake this Godly State or to prooue your owne cause good Yee are but princockes and babes for the most part in comparison of those of your side aforetime that stoode in the front of the battaile whose force yet God be thanked haue beene well tryed and met with all It is vnto you a harde 〈◊〉 of the decay and vtter ruine shortly to fall vpon your huge Antichristian kingdome as that was an after demonstration in the Poet Naeuius that Tullie mencioneth when newe Oratours foolish young men arise and take in hande the administration of the common wealth who were wont so to bragge of gray haires olde men c. Yea 〈◊〉 is that that hath alreadie beene a great part of the vndoing ofit on your behalfes Young men I speake not to reproch age nor to touche towardly youth may haue good heades fresh memorie quicke sight sharpe wit ioly art and prompt and readie tongues and wordes at will which thinges if they bee well applyed wherein is all haue their commendation as in young men But in heauenly matters Gods truth reuealed in his written worde his feare a setled vnderstanding and iudgement framed by Gods holy spirite ioyned with simplicitie and sinceritie in Christes religion and a reuerent humble minde to Godwarde directed alwayes by the sacred Scriptures in young or olde are a great deale more worth and yet by your vaunt you seeme to trust much to the other and thereupon are you so earnest for disputation Of your vaine Scholasticall disputations and arguments pro contra that can make quidlibet ex quolibet or as wee speake Make men beleeue that the Moone is made of greene cheese or that the Crowe is white by your sophistrie The Churche of God to the hurt thereof hath had too great experience afore time and the faithfull at this day see but too muche of this stuffe in your subtill Doctor Scotus your Angelicall Doctors Quodlibetal questions and in numbers of bookes of that stampe We haue beene faithfully warned by the holy ghost to take heed of admitting that kind of dealing a great while since namely in Saint Paules Epistles to Timothie And in deed by tryall we find dayly that by wrangling iangling and vaine disputiug the truth commonly goeth to wracke and is lost besides other inconueniences that arise thereby There be other meanes to try out the truth by then this This kinde of exercise vnlesse it bee very soberly kept and vsed with great moderation is very dangerous in matters of diuinitie And yet God be thanked for his gifts you may be and are euen in this exercise matcheable and to bee matched if neede were with your equals heere at home You that make these great bragges were but yesterday to talke of in Oxeford you haue left your fellowes and your betters too behind you in Oxeford Cābrige abrod also if you will giue other besides your selues leaue to iudge but let vs heare what you tell vs more of y e particulars for you offer also of your liberalitie two other wayes of dealing besides publike disputation These are your wordes 15 ANd as for the particulars wee shall easily agree with them For wee offer all these three wayes both iointly and seuerally that is either by trying out the truthe by briefe scholasticall arguments or by continuall speeche for a certaine space to be allotted out the other part presently or vpon studie to answere the same or finally by preaching before your Maiestie or where els your Maiestie shall appoint And for our safeties we aske nothing els but only your Maiesties worde set downe vnto vs in no ampler maner then the Councell of Trent made the safe conduct to our aduersaries which they notwithstanding refused to accept But I hope they shall see that wee will not refuse or mistrust your Maiesties worde if we may once see it set downe by proclamation or otherwise by letters pattents for our safetie but that within 80. dayes after by the grace of God wee shall appeare before your highnesse with what danger soeuer to our liues otherwise for the try all of Gods truth which we make no doubt but to be cleare on our side 16 If our aduersaries refuse this offer they shall shewe too muche distrust in their owne case for it is with great labour perill and disaduantage on our partes and on their sides nothing at all I woulde they durst make but halfe the like offer for their comming hyther on this side the Seas it shoulde bee most thankefully taken and they with great safetie and all gentle intreatie disputed withall aud made to see as I presume their owne weakenesse But seeing this is not to bee hoped for wee relye vpon the other beseeching your Maiestie most humbly instantly that our iust demaund may be graunted for the tryall of Gods truth most necessary for vs all too our eternall saluation YEE talke vnto vs of three wayes of conference both ioyntly and seuerally as yee speake but all must
graunted Which you very instantly seeme to demaund but with your after parle conditional indenting with her maiestie yee seeme againe to flie touche that I say nothing heere of the vntimely asking of disputation at her maiesties handes after you haue a litle before twise doone the same When wee see greater cause than hytherto or any good to be gotten by going ouer Sea then may that voyage bee thought of or soone enough taken in hande of vs English Subiectes at her Maiesties appointment When yee haue ouerthrowne those of our side in the low Countries Germanie Fraunce c. that they shoulde neede helpe in the cause of the Gospell whiche will neuer bee while you liue Then were soone enough to make your bragges and to call vs to combate In the meane while what shoulde I say but whether you lie or relye it is all but vpon wordes and talke shifting of thinges by cunning This you haue Rethoricke enough to inforce But alack where truth and matter faile there are wordes and Rethorick little worth You that can handle an ill cause so handsomly would I wishe to try what you can doe in a good but that in deede needeth not so much a doe speaking well one may soone persuade wise men saith one which opinion M. Howlet it might haue beseemed you to haue had of her maiestie at least 17 AND nowe to leaue all these thinges to the holy prouidence of God and to the high wisedome of your most excellent Maiestie to consider of wee are humbly to craue at this time and most instantly to request that your Highnesse will not take in euill part this our bolde recourse vnto your Royall person in these our afflictions and passing great calamites You are borne our Soueraigne Princes and mother and wee your naturall Subiectes and children whether then shoulde children runne in their afflictions but vnto the loue and tender care of their deare mother especially shee beeing such a mother as her power is sufficient to releeue them in all pointes her goodwill testified by infinite benefites and her noble and mercifull disposition knowne and renouned through out the worlde 18 If your Maiestie were abrod in many partes of your Realme to vnderstande the miseries heare the cryes see the lifting vp of hands to heauen for the present afflictions which this persecution hath brought I knowe your Maiestie would bee much mooued as all men are heere by the only reporte of the same I coulde touche certaine particulars of importance to that effect But I will keepe the lawe of Areopagus I will say nothing to mooue my Iudge whose wisedome I well know and whose goodnesse I nothing at all mistrust 19 If your highnesse were of that disposition from which you are most farre of as to take pleasure in our afflictions delite and comfort in our calamities wee coulde bee content for to beare this and ten times more in so good a cause as wee suffer for And if there bee any other of such cruel appetite whom your Maiestie shoulde thinke good to be satisfied with blood there want no Catholikes both there and here which would most willingly offer themselues to purchase 〈◊〉 vnto the rest Diuers are in bondes there most ready I am sure to accept such an offer and if that number wyll not suffice let the worde bee but spoken and many more shall most ioyfully present themselues from hence hauing reserued our selues to none other ende if God woulde make vs worthie of that and that by our deathes wee might giue testimonie to the Catholike cause and redeeme the pitifull vexation of so many thousand afflicted people at this day in England 20 IESVS Christe in abundance of mercie blesse your Maiestie to whome as hee knoweth I wishe as much good as to mine owne soule persuading my selfe that all good Catholikes in Englande doe the same And they which goe about to insinuate the Contrary are in mine opinion but appointed instruments by the common enimie to dispoyle your Maiesty of your strongest piller and best right hande as soone after their purpose had it woulde appeare and shall be more manifest before the last tribunal seat where we al shalbe presented shortly without difference of persons and where the cogitations of all heartes shalbe reuealed and examined and in iustice of iudgement rightfully rewarded Nowe matters are craftily clowded up and false visards put on vpon euery action Then all shall appeare in sinceritie and truth and nothing auayle but only the testimonie of a good conscience The which Catholikes by suffering doe seeke to retaine and which God of his infinite goodnesse inspire your Maiestie graciously without enforcement to permit vnto them still Your Maiesties most humble and obedient Subiect I. Howlet After all this a doe you will seeme at length to craue pardon at her Maiesties handes or rather because you will seeme to be in no fault but to excuse your presumption you request that her Highnes will not take in euill part this your bolde attempt Clarkely spoken and like an Drator where vpon you alleadge reason that hath induced you hereto taken partly from the bonde and knot whereby her Maiestie and her subiectes are narrowly linked together partely from necessitie and extreame miseries that yee pretende you are brought into This is the 〈◊〉 of your long boasting withall howe readie you and other of your side are to spende your bloodes in defence of your religion and Church This is in summe the effect of the three next Sections and that which remayneth for a Conclusion of your Dedicatorie Epistle your ouer rashe boldenes in thus dealing with her Maiestie needeth greatly of crauing pardon Howeuer you craftily cloude it vp and put a false vizarde thereon that I may turne to you your owne phrase not so much for hauing recourse to her highnesse in your pretended miseries which either are not so great or else easily releeued if ye so will your selues but in respect of your double dealing rather in pretending one thing and doyng the cleane contrarye not contayning your selfe within the bounds ye talke of You might with good leaue of her Maiestie haue propounded your case and haue had recourse vnto her Highnesse if her Maiestie had been ignoraunt thereof as I thinke none in the land knoweth it now better such is her wisdome and godly and great care ower her Subiectes wherein you doe her highnesse the more wrong in supposing shee liueth here among her Subiectes as a stranger without vnderstanding and pitiyug the harde case of any of her Maiesties naturall honest and dutifull subiectes bearing or forbearing your vntrue perswasion It may please her maiesty to pardon that folly but to feed her highnes eares w t bare words without deeds nay your deedes being cleane contrary and very naught how should her Maiestie take this in good part for you are a Proctor for your selfe and other that you call Catholikes that haue giuen your faith to the
of our Religon and to better agree with Papistes and Poperie then with the Gospel of Christ. Puritans as it pleaseth you Papists to call some here are by you expounded in this Treatise to be the hotter sort of Protestants So that here be but two sortes of Protestants and this is the difference yee make Of Protestants some here are hotter and some are colder and yet neyther sinne against the holy Ghost Are these diuers in Religion Then I pray you make the like of you Catholikes as you will be called for some of you are hot some are colde some Puritan Catholikes of y t hotter and better sort as ye say Some other more conformable men as you here speake And so of colde Catholikes yee tell vs in another place of your booke Adde the contrary difference and ye shal find a sort of hot Catholikes too Or else if you wil make three sortes of Catholiks heere in Englande as you nowe expresse vs and so one sort more then you make of Protestants When you haue reconciled your selues in opinions Then will it bee time enough for you to talke of great diuision among vs here in Religion for some difference in opinion that is founde among vs which you count an insolluble argument of your side against vs and yet may easily you see bee turned on your owne heades Your three sortes of Catholikes that I say you here expresse thus doe I set downe taking the same from your owne woordes The Catholikes that are in this wryting iustified onely are suche as iudge all other Religions false erroneous and damnable besides their owne whiche they call the Catholike Roman religion This is one point common to al Catholiks true false one and other With all these iudge all perticipation with the religion here professed in deede worde or shewe by othe by sacramentes c. naught forbidden and vnlawfull Another or the seconde point not so common to all herevppon by no meanes will they admit or consent to communicate with the same This is the thirde and last point proper to true Catholiks as you call them M. Howlet the authour of this Treatise and such like bee of this first sort of Catholiks There are made another sort of Catholikes that are said to agree with these in the two first pointes disagreeing from them in the thirde onely And yet these that agree so well with them in opinion and dissent from them in doing onely and that as they speake for feare or some worldely respect the former Catholikes so abhorre and detest that they pronounce these yet aliue in God his prouidence dead and damned in hell They are priuie to their consciences they knowe who shal goe thither nay they sende at pleasure whome they liste they leaue these men without comforte or hope of pardon and esteeme them no Christians much lesse Catholikes so hee here pronounceth of them Of the thirde sorte I speake after in his place that agree with the first onely in one and the first of the three pointes disagreeing in the other two pointes These seconde Catholikes in the meane while aduise I thus Take heed to your selues all y t at this day liue in Englande and be in heart of the Romishe religion or haue to these your ghostly fathers by shrifte or other wise shewed your selues to bee such finding your selues in this seconde ranke of Catholikes prouide for your selues I counsell you it standeth you in hande once for you are shutte out of doores for euer from the communion of the Church of Rome in this life and are firebrandes appointed by Gods prouidence to hell in the worlde to come by definitiue sentence while yee yet liue here your Maister of whom you haue learned your religion and who best knoweth as seemeth your heartes and consciences and the nomber of you speaketh thus telling vs there bee very many such in Englande though we hardly beleeue him you must suppose whyle you holde you to that Religion that this is the Sentence of the Pope of Rome and so of the Catholique Churche and of GOD him selfe in heauen immutable and vnreuocable neuer to bee forgiuen neither in this worlde nor in the worlde to come This is true if God be not vntrue sayth this Catholike M. Alas poore men and women Consider in time into what extremitie and miserie yee are thrust by those whome yee holde of and whome ye haue taken all this while to be your good friendes I pittie your harde case I assure you It greeueth mee to heare tell of your eternall damnation in hell fire They talke of the case of perplexitie wherein men are sometime wrapped But here men are tumbled and wrapped in a harder case by this religion if harder may be for dispensation with them might serue where men be forced or by necessitie driuen to choose and doe euill as they can speake here is no hope of any they are alreadie paste all recouery in their determination GOD giue poore soules grace to consider this geare at the heart Leauing the maze of Poperie I will nowe endeuour to speake out of Gods booke some what better to your comfort good heartes that yee may see the difference betweene the Gospell aud Poperie our Religion and that bee it neuer so vnholie will needes bee called Catholique They vngodly and vncharitably 〈◊〉 you and driue you with maine force into dispaire for euer Salue it vp as they can we call you we comfort you we stretch out our armes to imbrace you God rather sending vs to preache the Gospell to cal sinners to repentance by vs as his instrumēts doth this for you but marke well howe to repentance I say and in y t Christ Iesu doth god and wee call you Be not deceiued in assuring you in Gods name as we are bounde of pardon for all the sinnes that ye haue euer heretofore committed frō the beginning We bring you no pardon frō Rome nor from the Pope of which you see your selues to be out of al hope by those your Ghostly fathers iudgement that were sent came hyther to reconcile true catholikes as they speake to the Pope you are none of them they tell you nowe the resolute truth with thē and their conscience If they speake otherwise hereafter neuer beleeue them that pretending conscience speake this without all conscience But wee tell you out of Gods word there is yet some hope and comfort for you so you will leaue that Popish religion and betake your selues to the profession of the Gospel of Christ turning from your sinnes and transgressions into the way of righteousnesse Hearken heare and beleeue vs we wil not speake vnto you our owne imaginations and fancies and call them our conscience and truth But we bring you the worde of the eternall God and his reuealed will and truth which is this that as he liueth he desireth not the death of the wicked but that the wicked turne from his way liue
the holy Ghost his set vs downe by that chosen vessell the blessed Apostle who prayeth Christians to walke worthy their calling whereunto they are called with all humblenes of minde meeknes with long suffering supporting one another in loue endeuouring to keepe the vnitie of the Spirite in the bonde of peace There is one bodie and one spirit c. looke the place To discerne and distinguishe therefore thinges aright here needeth the Spirite of the Lorde the spirite of wisedome vnderstanding the spirite of counsaile and strength the spirite of knowledge and of the feare of the Lorde that may make vs prudent in the feare of the Lord c. whereof the Prophet sayth It shoulde rest vpon Christ who receyued the fame for the behoofe of his Churche and vs to be guided by Wee haue receiued sayth Saint Paule not the spirite of the worlde but the spirite which is of God that we may know the things which are giuē vs of God And the Anoynting which yee receiued of him dwelleth in you saith Saint Iohn and Yee neede not that any man teach you but as the same anoynting teacheth you of all things it is true and is not lying and as it taught you yee shall abide in him Agayne our Sauiour Christ It is written in the Prophetes And they shal be all taught of God A good and sure Schoolemaister is this Spirit of truth to lead vs into all trueth to bring into our remembrance whatsoeuer Christ hath tolde vs and to redresse and direct our wayes according to God his holy woorde which is the truth God only vouchsafe to 〈◊〉 our eares and to touche our heartes continually to heare beleeue and obey this truth Thus much in respect of some certaine for their better satisfiyng if it may be This matter beside the scriptures which may and ought to suffise hath 〈◊〉 and is diducted at large by some writers both olde and new as they are called where the same for them that list may be seen namely Augustine in his writings aforetime against the Donatists and such like wadeth herein very godly and wisely in my opinion and such godly men in our time also as write against Anabaptistes and y e like that are infected herein that I neede not to adde there vnto And besides I doe but here touch the same by the way as a caueat to preuent or cut of cauill and quarrelling if it may be hauing rather to occupie meselfe in answering the 〈◊〉 sarie at this time as one that what reason or answere soeuer other may be thought to haue and to make he surely his fellow Romanists haue very litle or none as who may be thought to haue beene in the orders of this Churche sufficiently if not too muche respected and borne with nowe aboue these twentie yeeres whiche may serue with all the worlde to our 〈◊〉 and the States 〈◊〉 here towardes these men And that a through and full reformation of the Church need not be forborne in respect of them I woulde this great and necessarie matter might as easily be obtayned which our sinnes onely let as it is not harde to answere what euer those fellowes can nowe alleadge for them selues Unto the examination therefore of this mans particular Reasons for refusall of comming to Church I nowe turne my selfe THE first Reason why I being a Catholike in minde may not goe to the Churches or seruice of the contrary Religion is because I perswading my selfe their doctrine to be false doctrine and consequently venemous vnto the hearer I may not venture my soule to bee infected with the same So that the firste proposition or grounde of this first reason to make it in forme of argument is this No man that perswadeth himselfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of Englande is false and venemous to the hearer may venture his soule to be infected therewith But euery Romane Catholike is a man that perswadeth him selfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of England is false doctrine and venemous to the hearer Therefore no Romane Catholike may venture his soule to be infected therewith First Sir such Catholikes as are of contrary opinion vnto you herein for whose sake you wrote this discourse must you suppose will denie one of your two propositions finde shifts to auoyde all your proofes which will not bee harde to bee done for those of your religion But let them shift with you as they and you can agree I am no patrone of theirs I will speake and answere to the matter Therefore to this first Argument or Reason I answere that it is vayne and naught because it is grounded vpon opinion fancie and ones perswading of him selfe and doing after his perswasion and not vpon the matter and truth Nowe these two matters be diuers and doe differ much I perswade my selfe that such a thing is thus or so And such a thing in deed is thus or so The reason why because one may be and to often is deceiued in perswading himself of things otherwise then they be But the truth is alwaies one and 〈◊〉 not according to our perswasion neither 〈◊〉 thereon What if one perswade himselfe y t he is a Prince or haue a bag of money is he so or hath he it euer the more or euer the sooner for that neuer a whit sure Or if one perswade himself there is a snake in his bed shall he not sleepe neere it or if your fellow perswade himself you go about to deceiue him shall hee not trust you Surely our doing or not doing of thinges euen appertayning to this lyfe to haue the same well done must not depende vpon our own perswasion which is very changeable and vncertayne but our perswasion to doe any thing must depende rather vpon the trueth and goodnesse of the matter that wee minde to doe Otherwise one perswading him selfe that euery man hee shall meete will kil him may not venture to goe abroad about his 〈◊〉 nor come in the companie of any man perswading himselfe that what euer hee eate or drinke poysoneth him hee may not venture to eate nor drinke for being 〈◊〉 And so within a while die like a foole and be guiltie of his owne death because hee will not lay away his owne 〈◊〉 perswasion In religion and matters of 〈◊〉 is this argument much more 〈◊〉 vaine as y t which hath 〈◊〉 and doeth from Gods truth and is the mother and nurse of all superstition and 〈◊〉 So as if this disputer or reasoner will needes grounde this argument or reason vpon his perswasion yet must he giue seaue to 〈◊〉 the grounde of his perswasion whether it bee good or bad true or false And not say as he doth elsewhére that he will not dispute thereof but howe euer that bee the perswasion may not be done against be it true be it false First rather let him prooue the goodnes truth therof
many waies Examine the doctrine of those ye name and ye shall finde it was in the world before Luther was borne Then maye you not say they al sprung of that first sect of Lutherans and they of Luther So as if Luther had not beene heard there had not beene now in the world any of them c. Consult but with N. Sanders and tell vs from him whether Adamians and Adamites Trinitaries c. were not their doctrine professed in the worlde before Luther was borne how then sprung they all thence how know you their would not be at this day one in the world of them if Luther had not beene hearde M. Howlet sayth Wickliffe was one of the progenetours of some of these yee heere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hee was many and many dayes beefore Luther was borne How then is that true you heere affirme Heere is a large fielde to walke in but let vs passe ouer it If in England at this day her Maiestie and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 higher for their profession and religion then Luther I 〈◊〉 you will shut all them out of this heape of 〈◊〉 not charge them to haue had the beginning of Luther sprung thence otherwise you doe them wrong But 〈◊〉 doe so that is 〈◊〉 higher leaue therefore charging with these names 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 deuised and called 〈◊〉 by you You playe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 heede of 〈◊〉 spirite that saide he woulde be a lying spirite in the mouth of the Prophets Ye take vpon you to tell not onely what had beene in the worlde nowe if Luther had not beene hearde a great while since But as though you were yet nearer and more 〈◊〉 of Gods councell ye wrap men in eternall damnation yet aliue and presume to tell what sentence shall bee giuen vpon these and these men at the day of iudgement Great and rash is your audacitie in this behalfe It is happie Sir you haue not euerlasting fier at commaundement to flashe and fling amongst vs at your pleasure nor a throne yet set you to giue sentence like a iudge in this case You will needes be a Prophet and you tell vs what you haue persuaded your selfe but we tell you againe many a man persuades himselfe in his dreame of many thinges 〈◊〉 when he awaketh he findeth to be false and vaine we y t stand by seeing you in a dreame iog you as hard as we can wee put you in remembrance what he saith Awake thou that sleepest stand vp 〈◊〉 the dead and Christ shal giue thee 〈◊〉 If that will not serue to doe you good then for the 〈◊〉 of others we say The Prophet that hath 〈◊〉 dreame let him tell a dreame and he that hath my word let him speake my worde faithfully what is the chaffe to the wheate saith the Lorde But Syr if the talke of our side be so greatly to be auoyded and it be so dangerous for you your fellowes and such 〈◊〉 to giue our side the hearing whence commeth it ye so earnestly now seeme to sue to her Maiestie that you may heare vs talke and reason the matter with vs for otherwise we cannot Preache answere or vse 〈◊〉 a certaine space continuall speech whervnto M. Howlet in all your names prouoketh To conclude this part we may iustly say to you herein if none had giuen eare to the Serpentes talke in your Antichristian 〈◊〉 if the Church 〈◊〉 a virgin had not been presented to an other to be corrupted but kept pure to her one and owne husbande Christe as the holy Ghost by the Apostle witnesseth shee shoulde be as for whom alone she is prepared and 〈◊〉 if an other then Christes Gospell had not beene preached and receiued Popery had not now been in the worlde nor yet should the same be troubled with papists as it nowe is c. Let the Reader consider that whiche the Apostle writeth to the Corinthians And let them that haue any zeale to Christes Churche here shew and vse the same in cleering it from Popish corruptions and restoring it to the simplicitie that is in Christe In the next and second Reason you are muche in Scandale I wel wote not why ye so purposedly leaue here that english worde of offence but let that goe Here you exaggerate here you amplifie here you set out the sinne of scandale like an Oratour In a thing not doubtfull you spend vnnecessary florishes of proofes you paint and set out your iudgement to the ix degree And all of your scandale and scandalizing vsing the same in some textes where you finde it not such loue are ye in w t this new English worde scandale And thus you reason All scandale is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c A 〈◊〉 going to our 〈◊〉 is scandale 〈◊〉 to be 〈◊〉 c. As in the former reason so here is it not hard to turne this in truth vpon you and your religion goe you vpon persuasion and supposition as much and as long as you will The thing is 〈◊〉 and well done by the sacred scriptures of those of our 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 it vnlawfull to goe to your abhominable Masse and Idolatrous and superstitious Latine Seruice I haue heere to answere your argument in explanation and proofe of your first proposition you are busily occupied and deuide scandale into three partes The first is by 〈◊〉 any to 〈◊〉 by doing or saying that which is naught The second by doing a thing in it selfe lawefull the thirde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the enimie The whole is doone neither scholastically 〈◊〉 nor plainely but let vs admit this your diuision and that you say of scandale in generall Let vs examine your Hypothesis or second or next proposition and the application of the whole particularly wherein I tell you you fault and faile And I say your second and middle proposition ACatholikes going to our church is scandale is false and you shall neuer be able to prooue it For this Reason there fore bend your self to doe that or els you doe nothing That you nowe say doth it not We graunt that for the first point to giue offence by euill doing or speaking in life or doctrine c is a heynous sinne ye might haue spared your trauel in that point we admit your examples one and other here because they beset vs in the Canonicall Scriptures and agreeable to that heauenly doctrine Your application is naught It wyll be very right well when you apply all to your side and corrupt religion You are like 〈◊〉 Priestes in the olde law like the Moabites you are Prophets like Balaam and very like to Ieroboam that ye cite out of the Scriptures in inducing to sinne to Idolatrie and superstition which is easily followed and craftily vnder couert of wordes by you broched couloured The example ye bryng out of 〈◊〉 no lesse perteineth to you Cyprians very wordes well considered will prooue it who in Christendome bring vp their youth in ignorance more then you Who persuade there the
of hypocrisie and hypocrites whom that religion maketh such ye might haue spared to talke of this kinde of men here They that knowe him not you say as in deede no man doth furder then hee vttereth and sheweth him selfe must needes presume him to goe of conscience and as a fauourer of that Religion and so be brought to like the better of that religion and the worse of the Catholike by his example You say true This is and if not needes must bee all christian and honest mens opinion of him yea ours vnlesse he must be taken to bee the diuels childe and of his religion And then knowe you him inwardely to be a Catholike a true Christian or of Christes religion and that we follow we denie him to be ridde him from vs and take him to your heape for his religion if he bee suchy a one You say Anibrose did accuse Valentinian the Emperour for giuing a publike Scandale to the worlde because he did but permit certaine altars to the Gentiles saying that men woulde thinke that he priuily fauoured them Ye giue a good lesson to warne Princes that bee professours of the Gospell to take heede they permit Papistes to haue no altars to sacrifice vpon in their dominions for giuing the like offence And for you Romane Catholikes that sue for tolleration for the free exercise of your Romane religion may her Maiestie answere you by your own rule and Reason We thanke you sir for giuing vs still so good weapons to beate your selues withall This is your very case Nowe let the Reader applye and make his profite of the rest The thirde reason is this When and where going and not going to Churche is made a signe 〈◊〉 betwixt a Catholike and a 〈◊〉 then and there is it not lawefull for a Catholike to goe to the Protestants Churches But so is it heere nowe wherefore it is not lawefull c. The first part of this reason he explaneth by diuision of the wayes whereby the professour of any religion may be 〈◊〉 which he maketh there by wordes workes and signe hee setteth out the whole by example of the Iewe in Italie familiarly knowne by our English Romanistes among whom the Iewe liueth in free profession of his religion and therefore had neede to be distinguished from christians by some markes But among vs heere in Englande where there is no such faction and diuersitie of religion by order of lawe vnder our gracious Soueraigne Queene Elizabeth tollerated but all bounde to professe the true christian religion to Gods glory and her Maiesties singular commendation neither is there neither needeth there in this policie any such distinction deuised by mē to seuer betwene religion and religion that is betweene truth and falshood Protestants and Papistes we content our selues with the notes and markes to knowe the professours of christian religion in Englande which are set vs downe in the holy worde of God which also depende not on mens cpinions nor are at their pleasure variable but are stayed vpon a 〈◊〉 better groūd And therfore we returne thcse voluntarie marks signes to note religiō the professors therof by to you to Rome to Italie where volūtary religiō or superstitiō raigne gaine is thought to be godlines We thank God and her Maiestie for our freedom frō the same and that we may liue at home in England in good conscience and sincere professiō of Christes religion without needing to runne into Italy where there is suche danger to denie the christian faith as yee tell vs of Looke you English Italianates to that and other the like dangers that ye haue willingly cast your selues headlong into And thus much concerning your first deuise in this reason 〈◊〉 that where telling vs of a Iewe yee affirme that to keep the Saterday holy day is a work proper to Iudaisme And againe that 〈◊〉 a christian yeelde therein to vse the same he sinneth greeuously and in effect denieth his faith Due might demaunde whether you English Romanistes and such other Catholikes in Italie do 〈◊〉 beare to keepe holy euen any of your late Pope canonized Saints dayes falling on the Saterday for feare of conformitie with the Iewes in that behalfe I weene not Thē in an externall signe as a yeallow cap wearing on the head which is a matter of lesse importance bee not too harde wherein though I thinke not the whole waight of our religion to consist yet speak I not on the other side as though I liked conformitie of the professours of Christes religion to antichriste and his ministers in any tokens and marks of their religion whatsoeuer I speake heere nothing of your grosse prophane exāple of a Tauern bush in liken ng the same to holy signes of religiō which too prophanely in my iudgement yee byd the Reader marke hee may also marke that as yee make going to Churche to seuer vs from you and to distinguish our religion from yours which is knowne by not going to Churche or by abstaining from Church so the haunting of Churche assemblies argueth some religion to bee in our men and that they carry religious mindes and abstaining from Churche assemblies which ye make a proper and peculiar signe of a true catholike argueth as much religion as is in a Horse For the proofe of the seconde part of your reason that the going to Churche in Englande is an apparant signe of a schismatike and the not going of a catholike It is manifestly to be proved yee say but it is not so easily doone as saide for vnlesse we will presume going to the Protestants churches to be hereticall as you doe and say a Catholike must so doe which is starke false your proofe will not goe forwarde All is still grounded on your false supposition and on the double and doubtfull taking of the termes of catholike and schismatike Al is but hollow and double dealing and belongeth for those wordes to the fallation of equiuocation that yee may finde moe slights then one in your reasoning Must the Protestant be a schismatik and a Papist a catholike because you presume and thinke so presume and thinke otherwise and as the truth is or at least notwithstanding your presumption giue vs leaue to thinke and say the contrary as the truth enforceth vs. But let vs see howe by presumption you prooue going to Church to be a peculiar signe distinctiue betwixt religion and religion First yee prooue it by the commanndement and exaction thereof You take vpon you to make a Cōmentarie to expounde the proceedings heere You make your self priuie of her Maiesties meaning and the Sates you 〈◊〉 imagine no other ende that men are commaunded to come to churche but to shewe themselues conformable to the religion heere professed You might knowe Sir there be and may bee diuers ends of one thing Considering that God hath instituted church assemblies to the good and benefite of his people if to the end his Maiestie may be obeyed accordingly and
oftē I wil leaue these three reasons of Schisme Participation with heresie and 〈◊〉 after I haue noted a worde or two there of more till these men can alleadge some sounde proofe that wee are that which they bee that is Schismatikes and Heretikes For Dissimulation as we loue plaine dealing and Christs Religion and the truth is ioyned with a godly simplicitie so hope we well that thase that come to Church aslemblies here doe the same with a single and vpright heart wee sitte not in their heartes and consciences we knowe not what is in them Which thing if they doe not they haue learned their dissimulation in Poperie and not in Christes schoole nor of y e profession of his Gospel Though I send not them quicke to hell with this discourser as I haue said yet surely are they to be reputed very bad folke so as hardly can there bee worse commonly among men especially in cases of religion let them examine themselues by the holy scriptures learne their duetie thence and repent in time else will they bee founde neyther true seruantes of God nor duetifull subiectes to her Maiestie in the ende nor yet good common wealth men God giue grace to consider hereof to shame the diuell wee eyther iudge them not or iudge the best and charitably of them I maruell not a litle at these words of yours in the latter ende of your Reason of Dissimulation many a thousand now in England being as throughly perswaded in heart of the trueth of the Catholike religion as the Apostles and other Christians at that time that is in the time of the Apostles were of theirs are cōtent not withstanding to heare digest admit and execute all or most parte of these thinges recited contrary to the sayde religion Here yee liken together the Apostles and olde Christians and many of your Catholikes nowe in Englande the Apostles and Christians religion then and your catholike religion nowe and you shewe these mens vsage to be vnlikely and diuerse in sticking to these two religions By the way heere I note that your Catholike religion and the Apostles and christians then bee two religions and diuerse else yee speake verye 〈◊〉 But let that goe howe can you or any in englande be as throughly perswaded in heart of your Catholike religion nowe which is false and not only net grounded on Gods worde but contrary thervnto as the Apostles and Christians in the primitiue Churche were of theirs which had God and the Scriptures for their grounde and warraunt Though a house buylded on the sande may haue a faire shewe yet in strength for want of a good foundation it can neuer be so strong as that which is buylt on a Rocke He that heareth Christes woordes and doeth the same is like a wise builder on a Rocke I wis he that heareth your Masse Mattens c. is farre off from that 〈◊〉 in blindenesse may be easily gathered thereby and a senselessenes whereof commeth no good but muche hurt As the contrary commeth by hearing Sermons and preaching of the Gospell Constancie and a good conscience is rather lost then retayned much lesse gayned or encreased by your blynd and superstitious religion You run to your olde starting hole of perswading your selues bee it ryght bee it wrong But to haue a true a sounde and a good setled perswasion for religion and matters of conscience it must be stayed in heauen it must be warranted by Gods holie worde and Scriptures whiche you for your religion are distitute of els can it not be I will 〈◊〉 say so thorough as the Apostles c. But in truth not good nor to bee trusted vnto Your seuenth reason is that our Gods seruice is naught and dishonorable to God and therefore must be abstained from Surely you say somewhat nowe if you coulde prooue that yee say this is the first the last and all the reasons that are worth the examining the foundation and grounde of all the rest Let vs see therefore how you goe about to prooue this point forsooth at the first entrie ye leaue of your proofe and fall a confuting of our reason before you prooue the matter One may perceiue it is easier with you in wordes to finde fault then in deede to mende it or iustly to shewe where and wherein the fault lyeth that other might mende the same The Scriptures lye in your way like a shrewd blocke yee thinke good therefore first to assay to remooue that and then to proceede in your purpose after Handeled Dratour like with your figure accordingly but florished at in deede rather then any thing els doone That wee haue the Bible and the Scriptures so familiar and so strong on our side that offendeth you that angreth you that hindreth your purpose greatly But we thanke God therfore highly Burne the Bibles and burne them againe fume and fret rage and doe what you can yet bidding battaile to God he will be founde stronger then you and yee shall not pruaile Alas poore scripture is that it so offendeth you it is the swoorde of the spirite It bringeth vs many yea infinite other necessary and vnspeakeable commodities we cannot forgoe it sir wee are vtterly vndoone if it be takē away from vs. I pray you giue vs leaue to haue it and to vse it Can you not prooue our church assemblies naught but you must impugne and disgrace the scriptures Must you needes beginn and make entrance there Happy for vs vnhappie for you A happie turne for vs that wee and our cause nor our God his seruice cannot be foiled but with the scriptures an vnhappie matche for you but euen to mislike with Gods booke What woulde you haue vs to commend our God his seruice with better then the Scriptures Wee that are Christians like that better then traditions and inuentions of men which you here talke of very cunningly quoting vs Augustine in the Margin as though hee in those places condemned Scriptures to contmende traditions which is neither so nor so as wee shall see after by examination thereof Take you therefore these traditions and leaue vs the scriptures so we may feede 〈◊〉 pure fine wheate eate your Cods huskes chaffe and what you will Ye are nowe in the matter in controuersie betwene vs we confesse It hath been the question betwene Papists and Protestants that is betweene you and vs full these threescore yeeres now together who shalbe y t iudge to decide y e matters in cōtrouersie betweene vs we say the holy Scriptures and woorde of God wee appeale to that you say no not the Scriptures by any meanes It is the Heretikes booke let the writinges on both partes be perused for proofe and try all heereof but let vs goe forwarde w t this reasoner If our seruice being full of scripture as yee say it bee no good argument that the same is therefore infallible good I pray you let vs know the good argumēt y e wil proue your
Councell No verily Let matter with matter saith he cause with cause Reason with reason pleade by the authorities of the scriptures not proper witnesses of euery bodie but common to both c. This am I the bolder with the Reader to set downe that we may see your skill and trust in citing the fathers If one should followe all he should make great volumes which I doubt whether for your pleasures it bee necessarie For the diuels talke with Christ how I pray you did our 〈◊〉 confute him was it not by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 afore I sayde Augustine did the heretike Yes yes still and all by the scriptures so necessary and profitable 〈◊〉 are they say or thinke you what you will Though we finde not for that which followeth the wordes in Hierome where ye sende vs to seeke them yet because it may be the fault of the Printer I presse it not you shoulde haue prooued and shewed vs to be heretikes before ye should haue applied that to our seruice supposition is a bare proofe and serueth not The strange howling as of wolues and bellowing noyse of mad Bullockes that in your Synagogues you make by your piping and singing in a strange tongue in that you call your diuine seruice seemeth to bee liuely expressed by Hierome both in this sentence and elsewhere also when vppon these wordes of the Prophet Amos Take from me the confused noyse of thy Hymnes I will not heare the musicke of thy Organes that worde doeth Hierome set downe according to the Septuagints translation The Prayer sayth he of the Iewes and the Psalmes whiche they sing in their Synagogues and the heretikes curious and set hymne or prayer as one would say artificially done with descant and quauering is a trouble vnto the Lord that I may so speake it is the grunting of a hog and the braying of Asses c And in the new Testament vpon these wordes of the Apostle Singing and making melodie vnto the Lord Let them heare saith Hierome whose office it is to sing in the Church that God is to bee sung to not with voice but with heart and that their throate and iawes are not to be annointed and cleered with oyntmēts like players that measure and stagelike noise and songues maye by hearde in the Churche but in feare in deede in knowledge of the scriptures although there be some man as they are wonte to speake of an euell brest or voyce If hee haue good woorkes hee is a sweete singer with God Let the seruant of Christ so sing that not the voyce of the singer but the wordes that are read may delight and please c. Thus much out of Hierome whome ye cite vpon occasion of wolues howling and the bellowing noise of mad bullockes that the reader may see whether the same and the like agree better with your curious pricksong and descant in your latin seruice or with our moderate and plain singing of Dauid his Psalines in the mother tongue Hee that is desirous to see more how fitly your wanton and fleshly melodie or roring rather in your Popish Churches is represented by Hierom. Let him looke vpon Cornelius Agrippa Erasmus Polidore Virgil and such like who euen in our time so great plained of y t vnreasonable brutishe disorder in your popish Churches and namely heere in England for that is by expresse wordes noted of Erasmus Yee cite Augustin here twise together and still of the Donatist Heretikes it was the first place ye cited in the entrance of your discourse how litle to purpose we there examined wee tel you againe again we are neither donatists nor other heretikes that shoulde you haue bent your selfe first to haue prooued that these testimonies might haue seemed to haue beene 〈◊〉 applied as that vnprooued and so is like to remaine they iustly maye nowe bee applyed to you Betweene your two places here alleadged out of Augustine the same Augustine vpon the words of Dauid I cryed vnto the Lorde sayeth well and that to the Donatiste Crye you to the Lorde not to Donatus So say we to you popishe Heretikes Crye to the Lorde not to this Patrone and that which you haue made to your selues not to this canonized Saint of your Popes nor to that whereof some like ynough are farre from heauen and so from helping of you Take the lustie prelate of Englande Your S. Thomas Becket for example if ye will or some such like Saint of your making wee say as Augustine sayde in his dayes according to the perpetual doctrine of the sacred scriptures Crie vnto the Lorde not to any creature wee adde furder with him euen in this place Let no man be thy Lorde for the Lorde hee meaneth in steade of the true Lorde of heauen which vnder the Lorde woulde not bee thy fellowe seruaunt Whether it bee in heauen Let God in prayer be 〈◊〉 per se A as they say Or vppon earth to shut out your Lorde god the Pope and to bring him to bee but a fellowe seruaunt with other Let that God of heauen keep his prerogatiue or else bee you in exalting and setting vp that man of sinne Heretikes with the Donatistes Briefly to shut vp this place finde no fault with our seruice for that it hath the scriptures and put a difference between the Iewes Heretiks and the diuelishe peruerting and abusing the same and the right vse thereof with reuerence to our instruction and learning that through pacience and comfort we may haue hope which is an ende the Apostles setteth vs down the same to be written for Let it in all things be A lanterne to our feete and a light to our path as holy Dauid speaketh For which causes also the same is nowe published and made common vnto vs by her Maiestie and the State Marke the great benefite the Churche of God here hath reaped thereby and still doth and yee shall shewe your selfe besides your impietie to Gods worde very vncharitable and enuious to grudge vs the Scriptures or to reproche the same vnto vs. Nowe whether wee be Heretikes that sticke to the scriptures and to the sincere plaine and sure interpretation therof by themselues that one place may sufficiently expounde another that wee neede not run to men to haue the true sense but to let the holy 〈◊〉 euer expounde himselfe Or you that cannot nor will not bee content with this but call for this doctours exposition that doctours sense and so foorth rouing and running at randon if the worlde may not be iudge yet I pray you let your owne Cannon Lawe be iudge betweene vs Wee must take the sense and meaning of the Truth out of the scriptures themselues sayth Gratian out of Pope Clement And yet furder out of Hierome Whosoeuer otherwise vnderstandeth the scripture then the sense and meaning of the holy Ghost by whom it was written requireth Although he be not departed
as much as Protestants or no I weene you will answere me no. Then let that serue to answere you in this point heere You say the Scriptures are read among vs in false and shamelesse translations c. This is the next particular fault you find And this were to be hearkened vnto if it werē true as it is most impudent and false still you goe about to bereaue vs of the Scriptures which I would haue the Reader mark it is your olde practise Yee say this hath beene shewed in particular by many learned men ye say so onely and there you leaue them and that they haue saide And vntill you particular out of your learned men wee can say nothing but that they haue carried shame for their malicious lying and slaundering Yee threaten wee shalbe iolily quayled in this matter shortly and by whome I prap you Forsooth one of your coat telleth vs by Gregory Martin Alas poore man hee is but one and farre inferiour and too weake to deale with those and so many graue learned and godly fathers that haue to God his glory the Churches inestimable benefite and their owne singular commendation trauelled in translating the English Bible But let him goe and your bragge and threate till wee see more and heare furder from him It may bee wee shall receiue some profite and benefite by him to amend some little faultes that may haue escaped men aforetime You know howe harde a thing it is to doe such a work so absolutely as nothing may be missing or wanting therein Though he bee an enimie yet wee will not refuse to bee admonished by him wee will maintaine no faulte as you doe wee will stande in no errour Let it bee shewed and prooued a faulte and it will be mended with all thankefulnesse to the admonisher But I am afraide all will bee but poore spight and this maketh mee the rather to thinke so because your faultes heere set downe are no better you are pickling and carping at our English translation of the Bible You cannot tarry tyll your friendes booke come foorth I remember what was said in Queene Maries dayes when yee burned the English Bibles to excuse so horrible a fact withall ye said the Bible was naughtily translated and being demaunded a better by the people that were loth to forgoe that till they had a better yee promised they shoulde haue it better translated that promise since that time you haue forgotten at least you haue not vntill this day perfourmed the same possible you will better thinke thereof nowe and yet I hardly beleeue that But let vs heare howe clarkely and woorthily you handle your selfe to shewe manifest and wilful corruptions in our translations to drawe the Scripture to our owne purposes Throughout the scripture where Idols are forbidden they translate it Images say you Howe can this be better checked and prooued a plaine lye and a slaunder then in looking vpon our Bibles which in the old Testament and the newe also vse the worde of Idols and Idolatrie Wee neither refuse in time and place as occasion serueth to set downe y t name of Idols nor yet are we in fond loue with the name of Images Let the Christian Reader try herein this discoursers trustie truth by looking into the English Byble heere authorised and vsed in Churche assemblies vnder her Maiestie Yee say throughout the scripture where Idols are forbidden wee translate it Images If this be an impudent vntruth and no better but a lewde rayling against our godly translations of the Bible then who may trust you in other matters Howe shall wee thinke ye deale honestly and plainely in this cause And that it is no better will I vndertake briefly to shewe to giue the Reader herein also a taste of your hollowe double dealing though I be 〈◊〉 in following you it commeth so often First in our Scripture seruice then in some Chapters of the Bible in the old and newe Testament besides let the Reader looke in the 115. Psalme the 4. verse there shall hee finde that thus it is Monethly read in our Churches on the three twentieth day of the moneth at Euening prayer Their Idols are siluer and golde euen the work of mens hands c. Is not heere the worde Idols and Images In the Epistle read on Easter day taken out of the 3. Chapter to the Collossians Couetousnesse which is worshipping of Idols Heere is againe read Idols not Images in our trāslation Then are your wordes of vs vntrue a slaunder of our English translation of the Bible Aboue these 40. yeeres hath it beene thus translated in our English Bibles Lying it seemeth cost you no money But how is it in your Romish translation in both places Images thē condemne you that and yet me doe not so for that nor in that respect wee say all commeth to one in both places howe say you But let vs leaue your translation answere for our owne You say throughout the scripture where Idols are forbidden wee translate it Images This is your example to shewe our translations in Englishe to be naught let mee reprooue this your saying by contrary examples taken out of our English trāslations yet will I alleadge no other translation herein then y t which is aboue fortie yeres olde The other yee haue lesse to complaine of that haue beene since translated And yet I diminish nothing of the fidelitie and 〈◊〉 of that translation in King Henrie the eight his dayes which it wel deserueth among al y e godly If any bee well translated in Englishe Allowe English Churche that Bibles some bee faultlesse euen in these places for that you carpe other for at least before you burned all you should haue giuen vs a better of your owne translating which you will neuer doe vnlesse you woulde be accounted enimies rather to the Bible and matter it self then to the translation But I will proceede with the word and name of Idols which yee say wee throughout the scriptures translate Images take vpon you to shewe why wee doe so full Clarkelye Besides that I haue alredie sayd and that the diligent reader may obserue and gather of himselfe let among other these places be read in the Bybles translated in our noble King Henry his dayes her maiesties worthie Father to shew the 〈◊〉 cauilling and lying vanitie first in the Law and the Prophets that is the olde Testament then in the newe Genes 31. 35. Thus readeth the English Byble So searched he but found not those Idols Leuit 19. 4. Ye shal not turn vnto Idols 4. Kings 17. 12. They serued most vile Idols For the Prophets looke Esay 42. 17. and 44. thrise verse 〈◊〉 17. 19. A God and an Idol an abhominable Idol c and 45. 20. Haue they any vnderstanding that set vp the stockes of their Idols pray vnto a God that cannot helpe them c. Ezek 8. 〈◊〉 and the 6. foure times verse 4. 9. 13. twise