they have done or we may now do amongst men we know not but pro captu lectoris c. we are well aware of a spirit of prophanenesse and indifferency in the things of God that prevailes sadly in this Nation and with men of loose lives it is enough that some have spoken against the Government quale quale sit vvhatever it is they say and vvhatever vve may say to the contrary in our Answer theirs shall go for an unanswerable Piece because it is of a Subject so deare to too many though ours to the contrary be never read by them For those that are sober and moderate we question not but they have seen something in ours already that is in a good part unanswered and much vvronged in theirs vvhich vvould in some measure satisfie them if vve should have said no more however stay their appetites till this our further Answer comes ¶ It may not seem altogether impertinent to the sober and unprejudiced Reader if in this place vve subjoyne only a briefe Note in vvay of vindication of the same so much opposed and despised Presbyterian Government from an injury as vve conceive offered to it by another hand And though vve reverence the Learned Author of the Book vvherein it is done viz. Dr. Sanderson a man eminent for his Learning and labours in the Church of God yet vve conceive the vvorthy Doctor vvill hold us excused if we take notice of the vvrong he hath done us since he hath as vve judge causelesly aspersed us in Print And we rather shall do this little in this place confining our selves to what as vve judge doth more particularly concern us that we may hereby invite some worthy Author that may have time and a more convenient occasion of doing it more largely to take up some other passages in the same Book vvhich we thinke might easily be cleared and the Doctors want of moderation vvhich yet he so much professeth be much evidenced in those many charges he casts upon the Presbyterians his Anticeremoniall Brethren But this passage is in his Preface to his fourteen Sermons Printed Ano. 1657. In his eighteenth Paragraph vvhere he vvould perswade the world much that the Presbyterians though not purposely yet eventually should be the great promoters of the Roman interest amongst us and that more waies then one as by putting to their hands to pull down Episcopacy c. but upon his second thing he saies they promote the Roman interest by opposing it with more violence then reason c. And so as the common fault of all Presbyterians so to do they being men it seems not dealing with learning and reason in the Doctor 's esteem he confirms this by an observation of some vvhich he makes most his own in that he only publisheth it to the world and subscribes unto it vvith a particular reference to our County in these vvords It hath been observed by some and I know no reason to question the truth of the observation that in those Counties Lancashire for one where there are the most and the most rigid Presbyterians there are also the most and the most zealous Roman Catholicks To vvhich vve say that though vve shall not stand upon vvhat he asserteth that either there are most or most rigid Presbyterians in this County the truth of which in any sense but vvhat is truly an honour to us in vvhich vve thinke he vvould be very sparing vve might question as also vvhat he meanes by Papists and those most and most zealous and that in this County they should be such vve shall not now dispute but that Presbytery should be the eventuall cause of this vve do much admite at the Doctors Aslertion For if it vvere so that vvhere rigid Presbyterians are there should be rigid Papists doth it therefore follow that the one is the cause of the other We should to such a consequence return the Answer which Bp. Laâ—imer made to the Objection against Preaching that Preaching vvas the cause of Rebellion for before Preaching was there vvas not such Rebellion vvhich vvas that this vvas as Temderton steeple was the cause of the stoppage of Sandwich haven but that vve judge the consequents of the Doctors observation more absurd For it doth not so vvell follow that Presbytery should occasion stifness in Popery because it cannot be said of the Papists in this County that they vvere not here before Presbytery came in If this be the eventuall cause vvhat vvas it then before this Government vvas established that vvas the cause there vvas so many rigid Papists in Lancashire If their very rise and breeding had been contemporary with this Government there had bâ—en more reason for the observation though not much in it at the best but that the prevalency of a more ridgid Popery in this County which was so evident in the time of Episcopacy as is notorious to all that are acquainted with these parts that this should be ascribed to Presbytery so long before it was born here we admire at the oversight of this learned man herein But it s ordinary vvith many men of this way and we are sorry to see any of this spirit in so Reverend a man that what is found amiss amongst us which was truly the fault of the Prelaticall Clergy or at least much more theirs is ordinarily laid upon the Presbyteriall Ministers for but coming in their places after them We desire to be sensible of what is amiss in our Congregations and to take to what we can be truly charged with in defect of not endeavouring to reforme as we could desire yet we thinke it strange to be reproached for these things by the Episcopall men who led us the vvay vve may speak vvithout partiality in greater neglects in respect of their ordinary personall care of their places and laid the foundation of those abuses in our members by their negligence which we are yet litâ—le able to remove And for men of this perswasion to come and view our Congregations and Counties and to find these faults to reflect upon this Government thereby we think it ill chid of them of any This holds true in this of the Doctors as of our Gentlemen in their charge of our peoples ignorance to be for want of catechizing and the like We shall not say much about the number of Papists at present in this County but this we are confident they have gotten no ground upon us since Presbytery was setled here The furthest part of the County hath many in it as it had ever since Queens Mari's time the reformation never yet prevailing in those parts especially for want of a setled Ministery there and where most Papists are there the Government is least setled so that if we were directly chargeable with this thing it might the more truly be said to those that know this countrey the want of Church Government should rather be the eventuall cause of Popery to them And whether it may not be trulier
Committee unto the next Classe and Mr Mosely consented thereunto promising that he would desire Mr. Allen and some others of the Gentlemen to be at the next Classe to conclude about the same May 11. 1658. Mr Allen Mr. Mosely and others came according to their promise upon their motion that they might have liberty to take some out of the bounds of the Class to treat on their part with us the Class condescended thereunto and before they departed the men were nominated on both sides that should treat of the matters aforesaid The time place for the meeting was referred by their consent till Mr. Heyrick should return from London he being one nominated on our part and they professing a desire that he should be one in the business If they had such a report to make of what concerned us as we have of them they would not stick to say that the words of our mouths were peace while warre was in our hearts but we leave God and the Reader to judge with what hearts they could agree upon an accommodation and do as they forthwith did While matters stood just thus between us the next Class Mr. Heyricke not being returned before the Class after in July we found the Papers in Print Upon this we appointed a Committee that time to take the matter into consideration and they sent a Letter to Mr. Allen to desire to know of him under his hand whether he owned the Printing or no The Letter you have in the other Columne Which Letter was taken to him forthwith He told the Messenger he would wait upon Mr. Heyricke to whom the Answer was to be returned the next day which he accordingly did and brought Mr. Mosely with him He said he knew not of the Printing of the Papers and therefore had brought Mr. Mosely who could give the account of this amicable Office of Printing all the Papers whilst an accommodation was on foot Mr Mosely said something to Mr. Heyricke that it should be reported that he should say that he could wish all the Papers were burnt and so to vindicate themselves that they distrusted not their Papers they Printed them to the world Which Answer of his if it had come or the like from us it should have been called silly and poore if not worse But for those words which he spake we know none that ever repeated them or that commonly did it or that ever took them in the sense he himself puts upon them We only took notice of them as a zealous expression of his hearty forwardness for peace which it seems we wronged him in and we must desire him to forgive us this wrong and not as in any distrust on their part of their Papers for they never wanted confidence and a conceit to the utmost of the validity of all they did and do not yet so that we could never knowing their whole carriage in the business mistake their words so far to favour of any retraction on their part of any thing they had written But for this to be the occasion of their Printing we account it a poor shift to alledge it they might sure have enquired of us when upon tearmes of Peace especially whether any of us would have owned any such words in such a sense before they had Printed the Papers upon them and what was the occasion before these words were spoken that many of their Party did so frequently talke of Printing the Papers if they had not been Printed but for them But the truth is these men the only men acquainted with Religion Learning and Antiquity conceit some great advantage they have gotten by their Papers against the Government and nothing shall perswade them to keep that under though they accommodate never so with the Congregations where it is practised or rather that it was a meere pretence in them to an accommodation when they deal thus underhand in open hostility is but too manifest But Mr Heyricke moved that he might have their Answer in writing that he might return it to the Class as appointed by them to receive it They promised they would within a fortnight Within that time Mr Allen came and denied to return any Answer in writing though he had promised it and though he did not know of the Printing of the Papers as he saies with the Preface yet now it is done they must own it to prevent a breach amongst themselves resolved they are to keep Peace amongst themselves though with us they deal according to the Tenent of keeping no faith with Hereticks whilst they cry up themselves as the only Patrons of the Protestant Cause and all others but as Punies to them What iniquity humane infirmity set aside can any find in this or in our actings If in any thing we have transgressed it is that our actings did not succeed our purposes forgive us this wrong and for the future we engage our selves all Bug-beares set aside to act according to our representation not spending more time in perswading them that will not be perswaded Having thus given a faithfull account of the rise and manner of these proceedings which is all we shall say by way of Preface on our part we shall take leave after a word upon the Title under which they have Printed the Papers to make some brief Animadversions upon some passages in the Preface which they have prefixed For the Title they give to the Papers as Printed by them and what they further say in their Title Page 1. First they call it Excommunicatio excommunieata Here is flat Erastianisme in the Front though it is but a Maske to to cover Prelacy under For though they seem to be against all excommunication unless it be the totall excommunication of that Ordinance out of the Church yet after we finde them willing that the Diocesan Bishops should excommunicate Besides this contradiction it is wonder how this comes to be the Title of the Book for unless they had done more in their Papers which might appear to be of unquestionable strength and directly against that Ordinance though as Administred according to the Presbyterian Government they do seem to set up the Gates of Mindas in this great Title 2. They say Wherein is modestly examined Let the Reader judg whether what they offer be worthy to be called an examination of what we have at first published or since Answered to theirs or to the matter in the whole For their modesty sure they either have another notion of modesty then is ordinary or else they soon forget what they here assert if untruths reproaches revilings c. savour of modesty let the Reader judg to call our's an usurped power and to determine so peremptorily upon the matter of the whole Controversie savours not of over much modesty in the very next Lines and if they have carried the matter like dissenting Christians we desire the Reader to believe as he finds reason to judge upon the
God in his Word for the information of the ignorant but in what way of Catechizing as is expressed in our Paper the ignorant in our Congregations who never offered themselves unto the Sacrament were most like to be brought to some measure of knowledge and which is not a matter of Doctrine but of Order onely Neither was it by us submitted to that Assembly whether the censures of the Church were the meanes appointed by Christ for the reforming of the scandalous But whether it might not be meet pro hic nunc and as the present case stood to apply the censures and so put in practice at this time that which in the General we were sufficiently assured from the word of Truth was the way for their reformation and with which we were both by God and Man intrusted to dispense unto those that were openly scandalous in our Congregations However they contented themselves to live in the want of the Lords Supper nor ever presented themselves to the Eldership to be admitted to it And this because meerly circumstantial as to the dispensing of the Censures at this time and to such Persons we think herein we owed the Provincial Assembly unto whose Authority we professe our selves to be subject so much respect and duty as to submit our apprehensions in a case of this nature which they had propounded unto us to be seriously weighed as they had done to the rest of the Classes within this Province unto their Judgement and to take their concurrent approval along with us before we proceeded to practise in a matter of this weight And yet we have declared before That however we are not so wavering and unsettled in matters of faith as to resolve our belief into the determination of Synods or Councils believing no more nor no otherwise then as they determine Yet that it is not out of the compasse of the authority of a Synod to examine try and authoritatively to censure Doctrines as well as matters of Discipline And we think how confident soever you may be of the soundnesse and orthodoxnesse of what in your Paper you propound in way of exception against any thing in ours you have not such clear and unquestionable grounds from Scripture for the same that you were to be accused of wavering or unsettledness if you had submitted the same to have been examined and tried by a Provincial Assembly and much lesse if you could have had the opportunity of submitting it to the Censure of a General Council But whereas mentioning our Provincial Assembly at Preston you call it a new termed Provincial Assembly If your meaning be that the terming it a Provincial Assembly instead of a Provincial Synod is a new term then this is but onely a Logomachia and not much to be insisted on Although we frequently call it a Provincial Synod as well as a Provincial Assembly But if your meaning be That it is a new termed Provincial Assembly at Preston Because Provinciall Synods or Assemblies have been held but lately at Preston we see not if Provincial Assemblies be warrantable and have been of ancient use in the Church that having been long in dis-use they began of late to be held at Preston that can justly incurre your censure But if the Antiquity of such Assemblies be that you question Then we referre you to what Doctor Bernard in the Book of his above quoted shews was the Judgement of Doctor Vsher who is acknowledged by all that knew him or are acquainted with his works to have been a great Antiquary however we alleadge him not that you should build your faith upon his Testimony and which we think may be sufficient to vindicate Provincial Assemblies in your thoughts from all suspition of novelty In that Book you have in the close of it proposals touching the Reduction of Episcopacy unto the form of Synodical Government received in the ancient Church And it thus begins By the Order of the Church of England all Presbyters are charged to administer the Doctrine and Sacraments and the Discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded and as this Realm hath received And that they might the better understand what the Lord hath commanded herein The exhortation of Paul to the Elders of Ephesus Acts 20. 28. is appointed to be read unto them at the time of their Ordination A little after it is aknowledged That Ignatius by Presbytery mentioned by Paul 1 Tim. 4. 14. did understand the Community of the rest of the Presbyters or Elders who then had a hand not onely in the delivery of the Doctrine and Sacraments but also in the administration of the Discipline of Christ And for further proof Tertullian is alleadged in his Generall Apologie for Christians Where he saith that in the Church are used exhortations chastisements and divine censure For Judgement is given with great advice as among those who are certain they are in the sight of God And it is the chiefest foreshewing of the Judgement to come if any man have so offended that he be banished from the Communion of Prayer and of the Assembly and of all holy Fellowship The Presidents that bear rule therein are certain approved Elders who have obtained this honour not by reward but by good report There also is further shewed That in matters of Ecclesiastical judicature Cornelius Bishop of Rome used the received form of gathering together the Presbytery And that Cyprian sufficiently declares of what Persons that consisted When he wisheth him to read his Letter to the flourishing Clergy which there did preside or rule with him And further That in the fourth Council of Carthage it was concluded That the Bishop might hear no mans cause without the presence of the Clergy And that otherwise the Bishops sentence should be void unlesse it were confirmed by the Clergy And yet further That this is found inserted into the Canons of Egbert who was Archbishop of York in the Saxon times and afterwards into the body of the Canon law it self It is here also acknowledged That in our Church this kind of Presbyterian Government hath been much disused Yet that it did professe that every Pastor hath a right to rule the Church from whence also the name of Rector was at first given to him and administer the Discipline of Christ as well as to dispense the Doctrine and Sacraments c. By all which it is acknowledged and also proved That the form of Government by the united suffrages of the Clergy is ancient and which is there in express termes asseâ—ted as it might be demonstrated by many more Testimonies but that we conceive these already mentioned are sufficient and being alleadged by the aforementioned Author As also evidencing what his own Judgement was in this point may be more likely to sway with you if in that there should be a dissent betwixt you and us then any thing that we could our selves produce But in this reduction of Episcopacy to the form of Synodical Government
for which we shall heartily pray we cannot but judge that such as are within our bounds and live as lawlesse persons contemning the commands of God and so out of their rank and order and of which sort you deny not but that there may be some among us however they be subject to Law and the punishment of the Civil Sword as needs they must be yet being such as are justly censurable according to the rules of our Government we do not think they are thereby exempted from being reached by that Ecclesiastical Sword as you phrase it which both God and the Civil Authority hath intrusted us with And as we are farre from contemning the Authority of the Civil Magistrate and shall therefore out of due respect unto it and that the lawlesse might be curbed be ready not onely our selves as we have a call but also warn others as there may be occasion to make complaint to the Civil Power that so such offenders may be punished by corporal and pecuniary mulcts to the suppression of wickednesse and licentiousnesse and the Reformation of mens lives and manners Yet we do not apprehend why this should hinder us from warning the Members of our several Congregations to make complaint to the Eldership of those that walk disorderly and will not be reclaimed to the end they may be further dealt with as the nature of their offence may deserve We being fully assured from the word of truth That Excommunication is Gods ordinance appointed for the reformation of the scandalous and as you your selves acknowledged in the beginning of your Paper and being a spiritual punishment for the nature and kind of it through the blessing of God may be more available for the destruction of the flesh and the thorough humiliation of the offender then any corporal or pecuniary mulct that reaches but the outward man can be And as it was blessed with great successe for this end for many years together whilest the Church was destitute of Christian Magistrates Although in a Christian State we see not why we should divide what God hath joyned together We having not yet learned either from the Scriptures or sound reason that the conjunction of the Civil and Ecclesiastical Sword is not more likely through the same blessing of God to work a greater reformation in mens lives then either of them alone remembring that old Maxime Vis unita fortior And as touching our selves and the power we are intrusted to exercise we shall commit our endeavours unto his blessing in the use of his own appointed means who is able and we doubt not but he will make the same effectual for the ends for which he hath appointed them SECT VIII BUt you say There are other parts of our Paper that do likewise remain dark which you desire to be made plain Although we conceive not so of them yet we shall as willingly go along with you to give you further answer as you to desire the same of us And therefore whereas we having said in our Paper That there are many persons of all sorts that will not submit themselves to the present Government of the Church Your first Quaere thereupon is Why Government in singulari We answer because it is the onely Government that at present is established in this Church by Civil Authority The Prelatical being put down and cautioned against in the humble Advice in regard of any liberty to be extended to it for the exercise thereof And there being no other Government but the Presbyterian which is our Government that is owned as the Church-Government for the whole Nation by the Civil Authority And as it is that which we judge to be most agreeable to the will of God so also we conceive that whatever is of Christs prescribing in any other different Government whether Episcopal or Congregational is to be found here As we do apprehend the redundancies of them both to be taken away in this and the defects of them both to be here supplyed And however there may be differences amongst godly men concerning Church-Government which it is that Christ in particulari hath prescribed in his Word yet we judge that the Government which Christ hath prescribed in his Word is but one As all those must say so too that not being Erastians do hold That one Church-Government or other is of divine Right But whereas you bring in Calvin saying Seimus enim unicuique Ecclesiae c. To this we say The circumstantials of Government that are but matters of order onely and which must be suited to the time or place or persons for whom they are made and concerning which if you had quoted the place where Calvin useth these words we believe it would appear he speaks these being variable and so but the accidentals of Government may not be one and the same in all Churches But if Christ have prescribed a Government in his word for the substantials of it it must needs be de jure one and the same in every Church And that the Presbyterian Government is that in particular which is there prescribed in Calvins Judgement is so manifest by his works to the whole Christian world that it needs no proof But if the Government which Christ hath prescribed for the substantials of it be onely one then that alone is good and all other Governments differing substantially from it must needs be bad and this onely jure divino and Christs own Government and the rest not And therefore whereas in the next place you suppose We may assert that our Government is the Government by way of Eminency as Christs own Government more immediately and jure divino To this and to what you further hereupon do inquire we say we have declared already That we call'd it the present Government because it is the onely Government settled in the Church by the Civil Power But whether it be the Government by way of Eminency and jure divino that was not the thing referred unto in the phrase we used And as to the resolving of your doubts and scruples we conceive it is not here material for us to go about the proving of the Jus divinum of it we having proved That it is the Government that is established by the Civil Magisttate and which doth lay as good a foundation to evidence the lawfulnesse of your submission to it as for the lawfulnesse of your submission to the former Government and touching which we suppose you were satisfied your exceptions lying as much against the High-Commissioners Chancellors and Commissaries then as they can do now against the office of Ruling Elders and which is the chief thing we apprehend is stumbled at in our Government But yet if you desire to have satisfaction given you touching that which we are not ashamed to professe viz. the Jus divinum of the Presbyterian Government we referee you to what is so fully spoken touching this point by sundry learned Divines both of our own Church
all Synods promiscuously to be admitted so he would have their decrees that are produced to be examined according to the rule of Scripture notwithstanding that reverence which he from whom therein we differ not doth give them But you may see he further goes on and adds Vtinam eum omnes modum servarent quem praescribâ—t Augustinus libro adversus Maximinum tertio Nam cum hunc haereticum de syncdorum decretis litigantem breviter vult compescere Nec â—go inquit Nicenam Synodum tibi nec tu mihi Aâ—iminensem debes tanquam praejudicaturus objicere Nec ego hujus authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum authoritatibus non quorumcunque propriis sed quae utrisque sunt communes res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum rotione certet The intelligent Reader will hereby sufficiently perceive that however Calvin gives due respect unto Councils yet both he and Augustine whom he cites would have all Controversies touching matters of Religion to be determined by the Authorities or Testimonies of Scriptures And however he presently after saith That those ancient Synods the Nicene Constantinopolitan the first Ephesine and that at Chalcedon and the like we do willingly receive and reverence as holy Quantum attinet ad fidei dâ—gmata So far as concerns the Doctrines of Faith let that be marked and acknowledgeth that they containe nothing but the pure Native interpretation of the Scriptures Yet what is that to what you would father upon him Viz. That there can be no better sence nor interpretation of the Scriptures then what is given by the Fathers in such Councils All that Calvin saith is That he acknowledgeth these Councils did in Doctrinals rightly interpret the Scriptures but he would not have their interpretation of Scripture for to be the rule of its interpretation as in your next Paper when there is a difference about interpretation of Scripture you assert it ought to be and which there you alledging this place of Calvin would represent him to patronize and for which purpose you do also seem to alledge him here Although the Reader by what hath been quoted out of him in this Section will see the contrary Besides that he did not say touching matters of Discipline and Government which are the things onely in Controversie betwixt you and us those Councils he spake of did containe nothing but the pure and native interpretation of the Scriptures but limited the same to Doctrinals as we have shewed And therefore we leave it to the Reader to judge whether you have thus far dealt fairely with Calvin or no. You also quoted the thirteenth Section of this ninth Chapter lib. 4. But there we find onely that he expresseth himselfe thus Nos certe libenter concedimus si quo de dogmate incidat disceptat nullum esse nec melius nec certius remedium quam si verorum Episcopoâ—um Synodus conveniat ubi controversum dogma excutiatur He acknowledgeth then that when a Controversie doth arise there is no better nor surer remedy for the determining it then by a Synod of true Bishops which are the Bishops mentioned in Timâ—thy and Titus in Calvins sence but yet he concludes that very Section thus Hoc autem perpetuum esse nego ut vera certa sit scripturae interpretatio quae conâ—ilii suffragiis fuerit recepta i. e. But this I deny to be perpetuall that that is a true and certain interpretation of Scripture which hath been received by the Suffrages of a Council And if we should here press you to that which Calvin saith as touching this point Seeing it hath been determined by the late Synod or Assembly of Divines that As there were in the Jewish Church Elders of the people joyned with the Priests Levites in the Government of the Church as appeareth in the 2 Chron. 19. 8 9 10 so Christ hath instituted a Government and Governors Ecclesiasticall in the Church hath furnished some in his Church besides the Ministers of the Word with Gifts for Goverment and with Commission to execute the same when called thereunto who are to joyn with the Minister in the Government of the Church Rom. 12. 7 8. 1 Cor. 12. 2. 8. which Officers reformed Churches commonly call Elders You ought nor against their determination touching this matter in Controversie betwixt you and us by your opposition to trouble and disturb the peace of the Church and which is that which seems to be clearly Calvins mind in this Section This for the Vindication of Calvin is we hope sufficient As touching the Fathers you wish us to consult on Rom. 12. intimating out of Doctor Andrews That not one of them applyeth it to the Church Government and as much you say may be sayd for the other Texts not one Father in their Comment giveth such a sense and which you are so confident of that you offer that if we find one exposition for us you will yeild us all Unto this we say 1. That we believe all wise and sober Readers will easily discern that your over-much confidence hath put you on to over-shoot a great deal too far For we can hardly be brought to perswade our selves that you have any of you much less all of you who are the Subscribers of this Paper consulted all the Fathers upon any and much less upon all these Texts And if so it was a great deal too much presumption to make such an offer upon the Testimony of Doctor Andrews that yet is alledged by you to speak but to onely one of the Texts or any other having not consulted all the Fathers your selves and that upon every Text. For what an hazard do you put your Cause upon If but one Father be produced against you in this matter if you should be taken at your word it is quite lost And if it be Gods Cause and Truth you stand for can you be excused that you have offered to quit it upon such easie tearms But we will be more liberall to you then to take you at such a disadvantage though you have been too presumpteously liberall in making such an offer 2. But suppose none of the Fathers could be produced thus to expound any of these Texts If from the Texts themselves and what may be urged from other places of the Scriptures both in the Old and New Testament it may be gathered that that is the meaning of them which we with sundry other moderne Authors give why should this Interpretation be rejected because not backed with the Testimony of some of the Fathers thus expounding them Is not the Scripture sufficient to expound it self This indeed is your opinion as appeareth plainly from your next Paper but the Popish unsoundness of it we question not but to discover when we come to it 3. But if the Fathers do not many of them determine the Controversie touching ruling Elders from these Texts it having been started since their time yet is it not sufficient if they
and the best rule too and by which you are bound up which what is it else then to build your faith in such cases upon their judgement and so to submit to them as we said too much And seeing there is almost no point of faith but it is controverted if all such points must be judged such matters as about which there is doubt and difficulty and not plainly set forth in Gods word then in all such cases it must be the Churches exposition of the Scriptures and practice as you do insisinuate that must be the rule by which you must be guided and that on which in such cases your faith must be built and which when we come to the sixth Section we shall shâ—w to be very unsound and with the Papists in whole or in part to resolve your faith into the determinations of men the exposition of the Church or of Synods and Councils that are the Church representative The Reader by this account may perceive that in this respect you submitted too much to Synods and Councils and a great deal further then ever we submitted as is manifest from what we have shewed was in this our declared judgement in our answer to your first Paper But we shall now further proceed to give the Reader our Reason why if Synods and Councils and you say of these you shall submit to any that shall come hereafter should determine against you we feared in regard of their juridical authority you would submit too little There is betwixt you and us a controversie touching the superiority of Bishop above Presbyters we deny it you herein are for the affirmative You assert in the very next Section that Ae rius was condemned for heresie for asserting this parity of Church-Officers and it is Bishops and Presbyters only that are there spoken of There is also another controversie betwixt you and us touching ruling Elders whether they be by divine right or no you herein deny and we affirme In these matters then we shall take it for granted till you deny it that you yeild there is a doubt and difficulty and touching which you will not have the Scripture to be so plain but that Fathers and Councils must be consulted in these cases and which was the reason why in the case of the ruling Elder you sent us to them for to consult what exposition they gave of the Texts that we alleadged for the divine right of those Officers Now the Question is whether you will submit to the determination of Synods and Councils in regard of their juridical authority As touching the first of these matters in difference we shall in our Animadversions on your next Section shew that there are Fathers that determine against you As touching the other concerning ruling Elders we have in our Answer to your second Paper shewed there are several Fathers that do give in clear evidence touching the being of this Officer in their times But as touching this Officer vvhether he be an Officer of the Church by divine right vve have not read of any general Council before vvhom this case in controversie vvas brought much less that they determined against vvhat in this point vve hold but vve suppose that from vvhat you or vve may alledge out of Fathers or Councils of ancienter times these points vvill not be found to be determined but there vvill be a difference betvvixt us still What then is it that you vvill submit to To a general Council that shall come hereafter If so and that you vvill give that due respect to Synods and Councils that may be hereafter in regard of their juridical Authority Then untill a general Council may be had that may be regularly and duely called and rightly constituted seeing the matters in difference betvvixt you and us have been tryed and examined judged and determined against you and for us by a reverend and learned Synod and Assembly of Divines against vvhomâ— your exception against our Provincial Assembly in regard of the Elders being admitted there as members lyes not that was called by the Authority of the Civil power of this Nation under which we live you ought to testifie your submission to that Synod and not contrary to their resolution of the cases in difference and the Ordinances of Parliament for the Presbyterian-Government and against Episcopacy disturb the peace of the Church by publishing your own private judgments if their determinations had been against us and we had published ours in the cases in difference you would have called them our fancies and thereby testifie what little respect you have to their resolutions Upon this consideration we cannot but think that if a general Council should hereafter come and determine these cases against you you that now submit not would not submit then And so the upshot of the matter would be this that if in these or such like cases in controversie you were otherwise resolved in your judgements you would not submit to the determination of a general Council in regard of their juridical authority only if they determined according to your resolutions then you would submit wherein notwithstanding your great professions of submission you do not submit much Fourthly But now you find your selves agrieved because when you said you did publish this your sense and apprehension of our Paper as far as it was plain to you we leaving out the words as far as it was plain to you dealt not fairly with you for you say those words carry another sense with them then indeed we did understand them in that is as here you explain your selves so far as the matter contained in our Paper was plain to you you closed and joyned with us being as you say you explain your selves afterward so fully warranted thereunto by the word of God and constant practice of the Catholick Church that therein so far as it is thus made plain to you you shall not submit your apprehensions to the judgement of a general Council but now your complaint of us is that by leaving those words out which you thus explain we represent you as if where matters were not so plain but doubtfull you refused to submit The truth is we took these words referring to our Paper so far as it is plain to us in opposition to obscurity and darkness you after complaining that other parts of our Paper were full of darkness and then though we left those words out yet we could not conceive we wronged you therein being you could not profess your closure and joyning with us in any thing in our Paper any further then you understood our plain meaning But seeing you here otherwise explain your selves and say you did it before we will be more liberal to you then you are to us afterwards and shall allow you the liberty to explain your selves though we do not think that the sound and orthodox Reader will judge that your opinion thus explained and which you have here declared touching your
or tendered his judgment as an umpire and composer of differences betwixt us as you here say although we reverence him as a man that was learned and godly and of a farre different spirit from the generality of those that dote upon Episcopacy but for what purpose we quoted him and how farre we accord with him we have as in answer to this occasionally so fully declared our sâ—lves before in our answer to your second Paper And therefore you should not have been thus rash as to impute such things to us for which there is not the least shew of truth as there is not any in what you further adde saying that you would have closed with us on our own termes unto which we have spoken sufficiently in the beginning of this answer to this Paper shewing how much you forgot your selves when you said so before And we must further tell you that however you may conceive of us yet we can still profess with a good conscience that we can cordially our selves joyn in Dr. Bernards wish and heartily recommend it to all sober spirited and godly persons that are sound in the main points of Religion though of different opinions in some things touching Church Government that they would close therein there be nothing more that we long after then an happy healing of breaches amongst those that are the children of peace 4. We having thus vindicated our selves do now come to what followes where you say that Presbytery in the Fathers and Scripture expressions you reverence but ours you still term a common fold and thâ—se godly pretences of ours as you call them as so many waste Papers wherein our Presbytery you say is wrapped to make it look more handsomely and pass more currantly But if you had reverenced Scripture expressions as it had been meet you should you would have abstained from terming our Presbytery a common fold that Presbytery which you acknowledge to be the Scripture expression according to the interpretation of the Fathers by you alleadged being thereby reproached that being Presbytery still and part of that that by you is so ignominiously spoken of as seeing it is disputed betwixt you and us whether ruling Elders be not comprehended under the latitude of the word Presbytery when speech is touching the Ecclesiastical judicatory due reverence unto Scriptural institutions would have withheld you from coming near to the vilifying that which you are not certain but may be of God especially considering how the reformed Churches abroad the late reverend pious and learned Assembly of Divines at home the Provincial Assembly of London and the Ministers of the Provincial Assembly of this County to which you owe respect do all conceive the ruling Elders to be Officers of the Church appointed therein by Christ and so consequently may be comprehended under the latitude of the word Presbytery But the truth is we have cause to fear that you or most of you are so much devoted to Episcopacy that Presbytery in any sense is not any further in esteem with you as any Government of the Church to be owned by you but as you apprehend in this juncture of affairs it being admitted for the present with Prelacy moderated might be a step to erect again in time Episcopacy in its full height and which we judge to be that cause which in your Preface to these Papers you have printed you profess to love as we do also conceive we may further say without transgression of any rules of charity that if the late King had not been too much bent for the upholding of that kind of Episcopacy that was on foot in his time that spoiled the Pastors of the Churches of that rule which our Church acknowledged did of right belong to them and had not been therein backed with the concurrence of some of you and sundry others throughout the Land that were therein fully of his mind the proposals of Dr. Usher touching the reduction of Episcopacy to the forme of Synodical Government had been more readily complied with then they were to the prevention in likelihood in a good measure of those troubles that afterward did arise about Church Government But however there was no reason why either he or you should have called Presbytery a common fold or why you should though you had been backed with the authority of the greatest Prince on earth have called it the anguis in herbâ whereof you had need to beware and to which you here say nothing though you used that expression concerning it in your first Paper And whereas you had also there said referring to the Paper we published in our several Congregations that she came ushered in with godly pretence of sorrow for the sins and ignorance of the times and the duty incumbent on us to exercise the power that Christ had committed to us for edification and not destruction and then said that these were but so many wast Papers wherein Presbytery was wrapped up to make it look more handsomely and pass more currently yet that is no purgation of you from your uncharitable censuring of us and usurping that which belonged not to you in making your selves judges of that which fell not under your cognizance and which was that which we had charged you with in our answer but from which you do not here acquit yourselves But as touching our selves we are not conscious that we have so farre transgressed the rules of charity in passing hard censures either upon him you or any others but that we may approve our selves here to God touching our innocency herein and the sincerity of our hearts and hereafter stand with boldness before the Tribunal of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ at the great day and we do heartily wish that neither any of you or any others throughout these Nations who adhered to the late King in that war he levyed against the Parliament had given the occasion justly to be complained of at that day as therein his greatest enemies The Gentlemens Paper Sect. VI. And now we come you say to frame an Objection out of your Paper and return our Answer profeising that we pray for the establishment of such a Church Government throughout his Highness Dominions as is consonant to the will of God and Universal practise of primitive Churches By which two viz. the will of God and Uinversal practise of Churches we seem to make up the rule as you say for deciding of Controversies of this Nature or of any other in matters of Religion In which you profess to differ greatly from us as not sound and orthodox For the Word of God is the onely rule to judg of matters of this Nature or of any other matters of Religion and therefore away with the constant and Universal practise of the Church We might have cut the matter a great deal shorter and said That we are for the establishment of that Government that is most consonant to the will of God revealed in
for interpreting of Scripture or that judging the Government of the Church by Patriarchs Metropolitans Archbishops Bishops then Chancellours and Commissaries Deanes Deanes and Chapters Arcadeacâ—ns and other Ecclesiastical Officers depending on that Hierarchie not to be a Government agreeable o the will of God and universall practice of Primitive Churches do therefore cast it off which yet w fear are Articles in fome mens Creeds 5. But having spoken what we judge sufficient unto what you have alleadged out of the Council of Nice and to what you further have urged for the proving of that which you do here cite it for we shall now proceed to consider what you have to say against our Government as not being that which is most consonant to the will of God revealed in Scripture and to prove that the ruling Elders are not jure divino nor any such Officers appointed by Christ in his word but that they may be parted with without any danger of betraying the truth of Christ Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 12. 1 Tim. 5. Now here we might have reasonably expected that you should have urged some arguments to have proved that ruling Elders are not meant in these Texts considering what more large satisfaction you promised in your second Paper afterward if what was comprehended therein was not judged satisfactory But we find that notwistanding your large promises and confident and high undertakings you discover barrenness in arguing though what is wanting in reasons you make out in foul language yet we shall consider the utmost that you say First in answer to these Texts you say they are too generall to prove a ruling Presbytery out of But this you should have made good and not magisterially have asserted it as you do without all proof But you think it is enough that we have been often told so by many more learned Doctors of our Church And we must tell you who it seems reckon your selves in the number of these learned Doctors that it is a greater part of learning to prove these Texts to be too general to prove a ruling Presbytery out of then only to say so much as by that account which we have given you in our second Paper we have there shewed that both the Provincial Assembly of London in their vindication of the Presbyterian Government and the London Ministers in their Jus divinum regiminis Ecclesiastici do more then say that these Texts do hold forth such an Officer in the Church as the ruling Elder for they do also prove it yea and that he is there particularly mentioned and distinguished from all other Officers of the Church they also together with the Assertors of the Government of the Church of Scotland to whom with other reverend and learned men of our own and other reformed Churches we have referred you do answer whatever we have heard alleadged by those many more learned Doctors of our English Church that you here speak of to prove these Texts to be too generall to prove a ruling Presbytery out of And therefore it is not according to our will or what we are resolved on that the ruling Elders are found there but according to the clear evidence of strong and good reason shewing notwithstanding your scoff that the sense we have given of these Texts is the true sense and meaning of them But though you urge no argument to convince us of so great a fault yet you can readily enough accuse us of wresting the Scriptures with expositions and glosses to make them speak what they never meant and which you think is sufficiently made forth by telling us that we put such strange senses to places of Scripture as the Church of Christ never heard of till of late yeares as if nothing were to be received that is contained in Scripture as the true sense and meaning thereof but what can be confirmed to be so by the testimony of Fathers and Councils or as if all the expositions that had been given of these and other Texts of Scripture by the Church of Christ till of late yeares were now to be made evident from the writings of the Fathers that are extant shewing what the expositions given by the Church were or as if the expositions of reverend and learned Synods and Assemblies of Divines of our own or other reformed Churches having had the help of all the labours of those that had been in the Church of Christ before them backed with the evidence of Scripture reason and the circumstances of the Texts were all to be sleighted and to be had in no account both by us and you who yet profess though in your practice you shew but little of it to reverence Synods and to be ready to submit to their determination although we have also told you in our answer to your second Paper that however it being no controversie in the purest Primitive times of the Church whether ruling Elders were understood in those Texts nor this case brought before the Synods of those times that ever we have read of and so not that occasion given to the Fathers to discuss this matter upon their expositions of those Texts we are not wholly destitute of the testimony of the Fathers for the being of such an Officer as the ruling Elder in the Church and do herein referre you and the Reader to what we have said to this purpose in our answer to your second Paper But yet for all this we must with you be esteemed wresters of the Scriptures and to brand us the more you apply unto us yea to all Presbyters what Dr. Andrews taxed the Papists withall whereby you shew the esteem we are in with you in that you herein parallel us with the Popish Cardinals which is also the charity you have towards us who in your second Paper whilest you had hopes by courting us to have brought us on to a compliance with you were your dear friends nay more brethren dearly beloved to you in the Lord and this also is that more large satisfaction that you now give us in performance of your promise there made if what was comprehended in that Paper was not sufficient But having here said nothing that can have any shew of this promised satisfaction you do well to referre us to what in your second Paper you say you had further spoken of it for the Reader hence may be ready to think though he find here little but flouts and uncharitable censures yet there you had said something to the purpose which yet when it is summed up will be found to be only this sc your sending us to the Fathers to consult what interpretation they gave and telling us none of them expound these Texts as we do which yet is that you say over again here and to which there is no need to return any further answer then what hath been already made only we cannot but take notice that your way of giving satisfaction is very easie sc by ridding your hands quickly of
express your selves as we did Copulatively and take these persons for one and the same though considered under this two-fold qualification and to be one Antecedent which even now you would have had to be two in the fourth Order mentioned Thus you assert Satis magisteraliter as we may say for sure for you answer not to the rule we had laid down viz. That the Relative is often referred to the remoter Antecedent and must be so of necessity when the subject matter spoken of doth necessarily require it as in the case it is cleare it doth We here also said that those of you that were Scholars did well know thus much but seeing you do here deny this rule and upbraide us anon with senseless and unheard of descants upon Nouns and Pronouns for no other reason but in regard of what is therein Asserted by us we must confess we looked on you to have been better Scholars then in this we have found you to be But we shall first make good the rule by us laid down and then leave it to the Reader to judge whither it be not fitly by us applied to the Case in hand That the Relative not only may but must of necessity referre to the remoter Antecedent and not to the next when the Subject matter requires it is manifest from these examples It is said Gen. 10. 11 12. Out of the Land went forth Ashur and builded Nineveh and the City Rehoboth and Caelah and Resen between Nineveh and Calah 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that or the same is refered not to the nearer Antecedent Calah but to the remoter Nineveh that being the great City there spoken of being so called by God himselfe Jonah 1. 2. 3. 2. 4. 11. and us that which is here understood by Interpreters on this Text. So also Psal 99. 6 7. Moses and Aaron among his Priests and Samuell among them that call upon his name they called upon the Lord and he answered them he spake unto them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the cloudy Pillar Which words viz. he spake to them in the cloudy Pillar as Junius in his parallels doth well observe may be rightly expounded of Moses and Aaron but of Samuell Non nisi praeter veritatem fidemque Historiae i. e. Not but besides the truth and faith of the History And therefore the Relative them in the seaventh Verse must referre not to Samuell which is the nearer Antecedent but to Moses and Aaron which are remoter More instances might be given out of the old Testament concerning which the learned may be consulted we shall instance in some in the new In 2 Thes 2. 8 9. It is said And then shall that wicked be revealed wâ—om the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming whose coming c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Where the Relative must of necessity be refered not to the Lord who was the person spoken of immediately before and so the nearer Antecedent but to the remoter unlesse we will confound Christ and Anti-christ And therefore our Translators to make the matter more clear adde in the beginning of the ninth Verse even him which words are not in the Originall But from this Text our rule is undeniably made good We shall only give one instance more It is said Heb. 9. 3 4. And after the second vaile the Tabernacle which is called the holiest of all which had the golden censuer and the Arke of the Covenant overlaide round about with Gold wherein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was the Golden Pot that had Manna and Aarons rod that budded Where the Relativeâ— being Feminine as it cannot with any good sense refer to gold that is the next Antecedent and of a different gender so neither to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Arke though of the same gender and the nearer but to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tabernacle the remoter Antecedent We confess Interpreters do here vary but when we consider that it is said expresly 1 Kings 8. 9. and 2 Chron 5. 10. that there was nothing in the Arke but the two Tables we do with sundry others upon this Text conceive that the Relative must here referre not to the nearer but to the remoter Antecedent This interpretation of this Text which we have given is followed by Junius in his parallels who there laies down this very rule that we gave in our Answer Haec autem omnis dubitatio tolli evidentissime potest nisi me animus fallit unica observatione Grammaticâ quod Relativum Pronomen in utroque Testamento pro ratione locorum modo ad proximum nomen modo ad longinquius pertinet quod ex argumenti Historiae veritate demum dignoscitur And then he gives instances hereof and mentions some of the places that we have instanced in See also Mr. Palmer and Mr. Cawdry vindicating this Text in their Sabbathum re divivum where they interpret it as we do and do also expresly approve of our rule Our large English Annotations differ from us some thing in the expounding the word wherein but yet upon this Text they approve our rule when they say Some referre wherein to Tabernacle v. 3. and it is true that sometimes the Relative hath relation unto the more remote Antecedent But by this time we hope it is cleare that you had little reason to make such an out-cry against us as you do anon telling us of senseless and unheard of descants upon Nouns and Pronouns because we said the Relative they in the fifth Order refered not to the next but the remoter Antecedent mentioned in the Order immediately before the Subject matter here spoken of necessarily requiring it being it is limited to such as should neither hearken to private admonition nor to the admonition of the Eldership which were only the scandalous and forsakers of publick Assemblies appointed to be admonished in the beginning of the fourth Order and not the persons catechized by the Minister to whom no admonition was appointed to be given but an Exhortation only to present themselves to the Eldership in order to their regular admission to the Lords Supper and for which Exhortation to be given by the Minister we judged there might be a fit reason when he catechized the Families and tho rather as we had told you in our Answer because having the opportunity of conference with them at this time if they had any doubts about this matter or he saw that it was prejudice only in them against the Elders that hindred them and as it is in most he might endeavour to remove them With this we judge all ingenuous and impartiall Readers will be satisfied and will not conceive that the rule we laid down touching the Relative 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being referred to the remoter Antecedent where the Subject matter required it was misapplied by us there being plaine reason from the expressions we used why it ought to
thought fit c. And doe therefore-ordain a Committee therein particularly nominated in stead and place of Commissioners The groundlesnesse of the mistake about settling the Presbyterial Government for three years onely that might arise from the proviso in this Ordinance is so clear to any common understanding that the bare recital of the sum of the matter of this Ordinance and the ground of making it doth make it so fully to appear that it were but lost labour to use any more words about it But we have particularly mentioned all that ever passed the Parliament so farre as we have either seen or heard of that hitherto concerned Church Government untill the year 1648 When the form of Church Government to be used in the Church of England and Ireland was agreed upon by the Lords and Commons Assembled in Parliament after Advice had with the Assembly of Divines and was ordered by them to be printed August 19. of the said year 1648. And this Ordinance wherein all that had passed the Parliament before in parts and at several times and what ever was but temporary by vertue of other Ordinances so far as was intended for continuance are moulded up into a complete body with a supply of sundry things that had been never mentioned nor published before in other Ordinances is without any limitation of time for its continuance and remains unrepealed to this day for any thing we have seen or heard to the contrary Nay we think as we shall touch upon anon That by the humble Advice assented to by his Highnesse this Ordinance as well as others receives strength But by this full account given we think we have made it sufficiently to appear that we have had the Authority of the civil Magistrate to bear us out in what we have acted since the first setting up of the Presbyterian Government untill this present Except there be any that can come forth and charge us to have transgressed the rules appointed by the Parliament for us to observe in our actings against which our own innocency onely shall be our defence It now remaines for your further satisfaction and our own vindication that we recite some things particularly out of the form of Church Government which we conceive are thereunto subservient In the very first Words of the Ordinance according to what we have before recited in the directions for the electing and choosing of ruling Elders and is there also to be found you may find it thus Be it ordered and ordained by the Lords and Commons in Parliament Assembled and by Authority of the same That all Parishes and Places whatsoever within the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales as well Priviledged Places and exempted jurisdictions as others be brought under the Government of Congregational Classical Provincial and National Assemblies c. Whence it is to us unquestionable That by vertue of this appointment such as live within the bounds of our several Congregations and Parishes are under the power of some one or other of the Congregational Elderships constituted by Authority of Parliament within our several Parishes And that all those that live within the bounds of our Classis mentioned before are under the power of our Classical Assembly constituted in like manner by the said Authority What power is given particularly to the congregational Elderships you may finde in the aforesaid form of Church Government and unto which we refer you onely we shall minde you That by vertue thereof they have power as they shall see just occasion to enquire into the knowledge and spiritual estate of any member of the Congregation to admonish and rebuke to suspend from the Lords Table those who are found by them to be ignorant and scandalous and to excommunicate according to the rules and directions after following And it is thereby ordained That the Examination and Judgement of such Persons as shall for their ignorance in the points of Religion mentioned in that Ordinance not be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is to be in the power of the Eldership of every Congregation All which will appear by the expresse Letter of the said Ordinance to any that will consult it and which not onely justifies all that is practised in that case by the several Elderships but also shews what grounds this Classis had for that which was mentioned in our Paper touching both what is therein appointed to the Minister about Catechizing Families and also concerning the Ministers exhorting such as in the several Families he should finde to be of competent knowledge and know to be of blamelesse life That they should present themselves to the Eldership The Trial and Judgement in this case not belonging to any one Minister alone but to the Eldership There are also rules and directions given in this Ordinance to be observed by the several Elderships concerning suspension from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper in cases of scandal which may be seen there particularly But there is no rule given that will allow either the Eldership or Classis according to the several powers to them therein granted either to warn before all or to excommunicate knowing and blamelesse men for their meer not presenting themselves before the Eldership The rules of this Government prescribe otherwise as we our selves must also needs professe that we are not conscious to our selves that we have given any just occasion by our management thereof That contrary to the expresse rules appointed therein to be observed by us and to the plain sense of the expressions used in our Paper of which afterward any such a thing should have been so much as supposed to have been intended from any thing there expressed Give us leave to proceed a little further to lay open the order that is prescribed in the above mentioned form of Church Government touching the order of proceeding to excommunication which as it will awarrant the publishing of mens names openly in the Congregation and warning them before all to reform being such as are justly censurable by the rules thereof and particularly where it prescribes that several publique admonitions shall be given to the offenders c. So it will awarrant us in any thing that is made censurabâ—e by that Paper of ours that was published To make this to appear as also to shew what reason we had to make known to the several congregations within our bounds what our paper held forth We shall here declare what offences are censurable with this greatest and last censure of Excommunication according to the order that is there prescribed and which as it requires that it be inflicted with great and mature deliberation and after all other good means have been essayed so it appoints in these expresse words That such Errours in practice as subvert the Faith or any other Errours which overthrow the power of Godlinesse if the party who holds them spread them seeking to draw others after him and such sins in practice as
cause the Name and Truth of God to be blasphemed cannot stand with the power of godlinesse and such practises as in their own nature manifestly subvert that order unity and Peace which Christ hath established in his Church and particularly all those scandalous sins for which any Person is to be suspended from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper obstinately persisted in these being publiquely known to the just scandal of the Church The sentence of Excommunication may and ought to proceed according to the directions after following But the Persons that hold other Errours in Judgement about which learned and Godly men possibly may and do differ and which subvert not the faith nor are destructive to godliness or that be guilty of such sins of infirmity as are commonly found in the Children of God or being otherwise sound in the faith and holy in life and so not falling under censure by the former rules endeavour to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace and do yet out of conscience not come up to the observation of all those rules which are or shall be established by Authority for regulating the outward worship of God and Government of his Church The sentence of excommunication for these causes shall not be denounced against them These things this Classis taking into consideration together with the power they were betrusted with by God and Man for the dispensing the censures of the Church in the cases censurable by the rules here laid down and elsewhere in the form of Church Government And there having been in the Provinciall Assembly several debates touching such Persons as in the several Congregations were ignorant and scandalous who offered not themselves to the Sacrament nor to the Eldership in order to their admission to it and they commending it to the several Classical Presbyteries to be considered of whether some further course was not to be held for the information of the one and the reformation of the other then yet had been taken notwithstanding their neglect and what they judged fittest to be done for the attaining those ends and to represent their thoughts therein to the next Assembly This Classis upon the whole concluded to represent their apprehensions in the Case as is expressed in the Paper that was published which was approved of before by the Provincial Assembly and which they judge is sufficiently awarranted in regard of any thing therein contained by the rules expressed in the above-mentioned form of Church Government We having thus far shewed what we have been and are awarranted to practice by the several Ordinances above mentioned shall now proceed further to declare That however we are no Lawyers and therefore leave the determination of the Case to the learned in the Law to judge of to whom it belongs yet if it may be lawful for us to judge of a matter of this nature from the principles of reason It seems to us that the above mentioned Ordinances about Church Government as well as other Ordinances of Parliament are confirmed in the humble Advice assented unto by his Highnesse in the 16. section thereof where we finde these Words And that nothing contained in this Petition and Advice nor your Highnesse consent rhereunto shall be construed to extend to the repealing or making void of any Act or Ordinance which is not contrary hereunto or to the matters herein contained But that the said Acts and Ordinances not contrary hereunto shall continue and remain in force in such manner as if this present Petition and Advice had not at all been had or made or your Highnesse consent thereunto given Whence we gather that if in the several Ordinances for Church Government there be nothing contrary to the humble Advice or to the matters therein contained they are not thereby any more then any other Acts or Ordinances of Parliament repealed but left to remain in force At least there seems to us to be a plain intimation that they have a force in them which is not by this humble Advice repealed and made void For it doth not appear to us That there is any thing in the form of Church Government or any other Ordinances of Parliament about that matter that is contrary to the humble Advice or matters therein contained And whereas in the eleventh section there is mention made of some that differ in worship and discipline from the publique profession of these Nations held forth to whom some indulgence is granted It seems to us there is an acknowledgement and owning of what the late Parliament held forth in regard of these by the Directory for worship and form of Church Government which they passed as the publique profession of these Nations in regard of worship and discipline And in these apprehensions we are the more confirmed because here in this section mention is made of a confession of faith to be agreed on by his Highnesse and the Parliament there having nothing in that kind passed the late Parliament that established the Directory for worship and form of Church Government However there had been a Confession of faith drawn up by the late Assembly of Divines Whence it seemes to us clear that they own the Directory for worship and the form of Church Government to be that which they hold forth as the publique profession of the Nation for worship and Government To the same purpose we finde in the Government of the Common-wealth of England Scotland and Ireland c. As it was publiquely declared at Westminster Decemb. 16 1653. pag. 43. Sect. 37. Where also they expresse a worship and Discipline publiquely held forth which must needs referre to the Directory and form of Church Government by us recited There being no other worship or discipline that then had or now hath the civil Sanction in this Nation We have been large in what we have here represented in the general before we come to speak more particularly to the rest that now follows in your paper But our pains being the greater to make this full representation unto you then it will be for you to read it we must intreat you to excuse us considering it tends as well to rectifie your mistakes as to vindicate our selves being also desirous not to be mistaken any more as also because it layes a foundation for our briefer and more particular Answer unto what follows and to which these â—hings being thus premised we now come SECT V. IN the things wherein you professe your selves to dissent till further explicated and unfolded by us 1 The first thing we meet with here is That by the many Persons of all sorts that are members of Congregations and mentioned in our Paper in your sense thereof we seem to hint that thereby we mean onely such who have admitted themselves members of some Congregation within your association and yet live inordinately c. And that therefore you who never were any members or associates of ours are not within the verge and compasse