Peter that was according to atradition much received among the Anciēt but for the māner therof much differed vpō by all Besides Prosper lived in the daies of Pope Leo the first with In vita Leonis Mapni whō he was very familiar with u In vita Prosp. Aquitan whō he was at Rome receiving many favours from Leo and therefore might more easily incline to the opinion of that Pope who began to arrogate too much to his See and to magnify it so farre as that his Successours but especially x Lib. 3. Epist. 76. Gregory woulde not stande to it This doth often appeare in the vvorkes of Leo but I vvill cite by name one place whence Prosper might have the prose of that which heeturned into verse Speaking vnto Rome as concerning Peter Paule hee saith thus y Leo Serm. 1. in Nativit Petr. Pauli These are they who brought thee to this glory that thou shouldest be a holy natiō a chose people a citie of Priests Kinges and that by the holie seate of Saint Peter thou beeing made the head of the worlde shouldst more largely rule by divine religion then by earthly dominion Whē Prosper heard this from Leo as an Orator he might set it a strain higher as a Poet who in his amplification would leaue out no word which might grace the place whō hee would honour And then he could not see the inconvenience that afterward did arise by too much magnifying that Episcopal or Patriarchical city And these things are especially to bee remēbred if you would vrge his words to that purpose which in this place principally cōcerneth you that is to say that the faith was spread over al the world Truth it is that much of the world ioyned in the same beliefe with the Clergy city of Rome from thence as being one of the Imperiall residences they had great light many also repaired to the Bishops there as being for a long time eminent persons in respect of their holines of life but if we wil speak exactly neither did they take their religiō from thence more then frō Hierusalē Alexandria Antioch neither did I wil not say the fai◅h of Rome but that faith which vvas in Rome as wel as in other places possesse the whol world For first the z Loco cita◅o words of Leo himselfe do signifie the Christian Religion to be no farther spread over the earth then the Roman Empire had bin or little more we know that albeit vnder that Empire was much of the old knowne world yet there was also a very greate deale which never came vnder their subiection And secondly even at that time being about 450. years after Christ neither by the Apostles nor by their successours had the Gospel bin mēcioned in many parts of the old world which is it that seemeth here to ly on you to proue And for this we neede no better testimony then his whom before you cited S. Austen I meane who was an old mā living when Prosper was younge Besides I wil choose no other place but one of those whom yourselfe cite which being throughly scanned by the Reader will evidently shew that you D Hill do take vp your wares at trust Or else had you looked and knowne the place your selfe you would never haue cited that which so expresly confirmeth the point by mee taught and over-turneth your assertion of the Gospell being spreade in all countries of the world taking countries and Nations particularly and specially and strictly as you doe in your discourse 7 Saint a Epist 78 Austen then being asked by Hesychius concerning the n◅enesse of the day of iudgment had in a former Epistle given reasons out of the holy Scriptures why that time was not likely to be very shortly and among other that was one that the b Mat. 24. 14 Gospel of the kingdome had not yet bin preached throughout the whol world Hesychius is not yet throughly satisfied thervpon S. Austen so advertised setteth to him againe in a second Epistle and farther prosecuting that point of the faith not yet received every where he vttereth these words c Epistol 80. Whereas your Reverence doth thinke that this is already done by the Apostles themselues I haue proved by certaine arguments that it is not so For there are with vs that is to say in Africa innumerable barbarous nations among whom that the Gospell is not yet preached we may everie daie read◅ learne by those who are brought captiues from thence are now mingled with the servants of the Romanes Then he addeth that some of the African people being lately subiected to the Romanes had given their names to Christ But those more inward who are vnder no power of the Romanes are not at al possessed with the Christiā religion in any of theirs Yet he saith it was not to be doubted but that more and more woulde come in that the Prophecies of the Scripture might bee fulfilled But that the Western part of the world had the Church thē already Afterward looke in what natiōs therfore the Church yet is not it must be not that atwhich shal be there must beleeue for al natiōs are promised but not all men of all nations And yet againe Howe then was this preaching fulfilled by the Apostles in as much as yet there be nations which is vnto vs most assured in whom it lately began and in whom not as yet it is begun to be fulfilled Hee sheweth that it was and must be performed in the Apostles and their successours to the end of the world And to that purpose hee expoundeth that speech d Psal. 19. 4. Their sound is gone out into all lands by the future tense as well as by the time past He shutteth it vp thus It is fructifying and growing in all the world although the Gospell did not yet possesse the whole but hee did say that it did fructifie in the whole world increase that so he might signifie how farre it should come by fructifying and increasing Novve who doeth not see that the same which this vvorthy Father said in his time of innumerable nations in Africa not yet called to the faith might then many hundreds of years afterwarde yea in some till our time be verified of the Northren partes of Europe and of the North and East countries of Asia to say nothing of all the new-discovered lands toward the North South West of which before I haue spoken And this togither with Hieroms owne words before mentioned Or else we see shortly to be fulfilled In Mat. 24 doeth shew that the speeches of the auncient Fathers aboue named are not strictly and precisely to be taken but that all is to be vnderstoode for much and many and for all the generall coasts lying to the East and West and North and South not including each speciall And so consequently such a multitude of authorities is but very idly
24 Your scorne at Sir Iohn Calvine may bee easily returned on the best of your side as Sir William Allen Sir Robert Bellarmine but wee must allow you a great deale more then this Your slaunder against Calvine you take word for word from Persons his d Cap. 7. Ward-word against Sir Frauncis Hastinges to which if you please you may reade the aunswere discovering that odious calumniation e O. E. to N. D Cap 7 There you may finde first that Calvine was never Masse-Priest and therefore that Baals servauntes did falsely obiect Priest-hoode vnto him Secondly that Bolsecus the authour of this slaunder did in an open Synode confesse vvith teares that vvithout any grounde he had laide that slaunder on him Thirdlye that the tale is not onelye an vniust imputation but a sottishe and improbable Narration For first there vvas never any such legall punishment by any lavve decreede and secondlie no Recorde or testimonie is of any such matter ever done or suffered by Calvine You may there also finde how truly that crimination doth fall on the Romish generation concerning which pointe my meaning is to forbeare you for a while and nowe to followe you in the present That then these men should leaue the Papacye for feare of censure from Popish Magistrates for that whereof they were no wayes no not so much as in shevve guiltye it your foolishe collection and so much the more absurde because Calvine by your lying reporte had beene punished alreadye Anyethinge yvill serve the turne to keepe this slaunder going You might rather haue saide in behalfe of Luther that since hee vvas so esteemed by the vvhole Vniversitie vvhere hee abode for a great parte of his timeâ—… since his name after his death is honourable amonge them since he was so protected to the hazarde of all his estate by that Noble and wise and vertuous Duke of Saxony it is certaine that no exception can bee taken to his life And for Calvine that since for manye yeares hee lived in so reverende reputation at Geneva vvhere they are so strict against sinne that by the testimony of f Method hist cap. 6 Bodine a Papist no open wantonnes no lasciviousnesse is once permitted there by reason of the austerity of their discipline and that they haue as travellours reporte so sterne a law against lewde malefactours as is scant to be found in all the worlde againe that an offendour flying out of any countrey thither shall there bee subiect to as grievous punishment as he was in his owne land if he be convicted of the crime vnto which severity they are forced least their citty standing neere the dominion of so many Princes and States shoulde bee the common receptacle and sanctuary of all fugitiues and runnagates therefore Iohn Calvin vvas a man of singular honesty of life and every waye vntouchable in his conversation They who are generally so strict woulde not with such high acceptation haue admitted and for so many yeares retained a person notoriously defamed to be the chiefe standdard bearer of their profession vvhereas they might haue had many other vvorthy men and vvithout exception to haue supplyed that roume This tale then commethâ—… from Sathan the father of lyesâ—… Now it is not vpon these persons that vvee doe repose our selues but on that which they bring out of the holy Scripture which being the word of truth and inspired from the Spirit of God we feare not to adventure vpon it our selues our salvation our hope of everlasting blessednesse Neither do wee this headlongly or hare-brainedly as you suppose for we are g Act 26 25 not madde O noble Festus but with our maturest iudgements and most sober vnderstandings we study wee conferre the Scriptures in many languages we pray to God to inlighten vs we looke into the Fathers the Histories the Councels wee compare old things with new we leaue no good meanes vn-attempted to sift and found the truth and stil the farther wee looke the lesse ground we finde for Popety Divines most auncient amongst vs doe more loath it in their olde age then they did in their young Yea we turne the bookes of your writers and exemine their reasones and much adoe wee see they haue to set vp the tower of Babell and yet it cannot be at they would haâ—…e it Nay we hinder not your learned Papists freely at our book-sellerâ—… to buy all bookes of controversies in religion so they bee not mingled with state causeâ—… which course coÌ„cerning the writings of our men you permit not to your learned disciples but interdict them eveÌ„ to many of your Seminary Priests And aboue all this wee are so farre from longing to be in hell that all who are rightly instructed among vs take as great care of the saving of their soules as the deepest Romanist of you with all your Pharisticall and counterfeit hypocrisie 25 When then you make comparison betweene an vniversall consent and that also auncient on the one side and a fewe contemptible authours of novelties on the other side and you double it againe that here be but two or three Novellants and there twenty millioÌ„s of graue holy auncients which inequality say you would sway much with Iudges or with Iuries in Westminster hall we reply that you do but talke at randoÌ„ after your fashion For first Westminster hall is no place for the triall of religion Secondly your men consent not in such sort as you speake their agreement is not so generally spred as a man may see throughout all Bellarmines workes where almost in every question hee citeth different opinions and iudgements of writers in the Papacy and many things wherein Romanists agree are but falshood and you much mistake the number of those who haue and doe oppugne you Thirdelye what you say is anncient is but vpstarte and crept in as a worthy h D. Sutclifs challendge c. 2. man hath of late most learnedly shewed in a tract for that purpose and for the triall of our differences vvee lay the Bible before you then which I trust you will not offer to bring ought more aucient Hee who out of that book can win it in Gods name let him weare it We say with Tertullian i De praescript contra haereâ—… that that is of the Lord true which was first delivered And fourthly vvee doe tell you that multitude is not it vvhich must decide vvhat is trueth Amonge heathen men one k Plutari in Phocyone Phocyon standing single spake more advisedly then all the Atheniens Should Elias be overborne because he was but l 〈◊〉 King 18. 25. one when the Priests of Baal were many Who was the greater company m Ier. 2. 〈◊〉 4. Ieremy or all Hierusalem with the whole land of Iuda If you had beene present at the erecting of the image of n Dan 3. 1. Nabuchodonosor and had seene all the great Princes fall downe before that Idole and the three children stand vp
acceptable to the Almighty and yet indeede they were most displeasing in his sight most exorbitant from the rule of his commaundements God iudgeth not by the imaginations and conceipts of men but according to those prescriptions which he hath laide downe in his word so is his determination And whether your opinions doe agree with that his sacred Scripture vvee shall sift in time and place In one Periode you tell your friends that they loue you amore concupiscentiâ—… rather then amore amicitia seeking their owne good thereby yet you adde in the very next sentence that whatsoever they write or say you knowe it proceedeth from loue and affection and froâ—… true amâ—… but yet savouring meerely of flesh and blood Here wee woulde gladly knowe howe true amity should be in any and not amor amicitia You had neede explane this Paradoxe If you were borne and baptised in Popery it may seeme that your birth was in Q. Maries daies but how you should receiue confirmation in the same errors vnlesse it were after your flying beyond the seas we cannot tell It is one thing to be generated another to be regenerated one thing to haue a birth another a new birth And as touching your Baptisme you should remember that you were baptised into the faith of Christ not into the beleefe of the Bishop of Rome who for his owne part shall stand or fall to God but shall not so answere as to cleere the soules of other i Epiphanius in Ancorato Origen shall not stand by vs in the day of iudgement neither shall any other so assist vs as by his protection to savegard vs. Neither is it sufficient to say that after this or this sort I was baptised and therefore I will continue in the same in as much as the Iewe may say so farre touching his CircuÌ„cision in Iudaisme and the Mahumetane concerning his Circumcision in Mahumetisme yea the Arrians were baptised in Arrianisme and other Heretikes receaved that Sacrament after the obliquities of their Heresies It is ill to begin amisse but it is worse to persevere in the by-waies of vncertaine errour Tullie could recount it for a faulte that k Academicar Quâ—…st 4. men in the weakest time of their age either listning to some friend or being inveigled by one oration of some body which they have first heard they iudge of thinges vvhich they knovve not and looke vnto whatsoever discipline they bee caried as vvith a tempest vnto it they doe cleave as to a rocke and never examine vvhether it be right or vvronge Yet such as these in their elder yeeres might have saide for themselves In this have vvee beene conversant even from our youth therein have vvee had our education and therefore novve vvee are not to varie from it This determination had not beene good in Philosophie neither is the like to it commendable in Divinitie Your magnisike bravado of embracing that which is so auncient and vniversall is but a blaze to dazle the eies of your credulous disciples If in defence of your superstition you bee able to shevve ought of more antiquitie then the vvord of God is we will soone yeelde vnto you but verily in comparison hereof all for which you striue is but plaine novelty Neither doth the wide spreading of errour alter the nature of it into truth or giue any priviledge for the warrant of the same for then should the service and obedience of Sathan bee of higher worth then the verity of Christ in as much as the feare of God hath ever beene contained within more narrow listes then the devotions and ceremonies performed to the Devill Truth is not to be esteemed by the multitude of the followers but by the reality of it selfe But in the processe of this worke there will be occasion more then once to speake of this argument That ioy of yours that you follow not any new opinions as of Puritanisme Brownisme Martinisme or of the familie of loue is but slenderly supported for among men of vnderstanding it is no better to holde a long continued vntruth then a late-sprung-vp falshood The one is to defende an inveterate errour and the other to mainetaine a later mis-conceite And probably against the former it may be obiected that as l Aâ—…ist Top 3. l. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Bonum quò antiquius eò melius so on the contrary side Malum quò antiquius eò peius In those matters which deflect from the rule of right the heavier sentence doth ever light according to the measure or quantity of of the variation from the rule not according to the age or youth of the opinion That is but a circumstance the other is the maine consideration Great carefulnesse you pretende to satisfie your friendes that it is not on any heady or braine-sicke fantasticalitie that you are so addicted to the Romish profession But while you ioine there-vnto that you haue no purpose to perswade other to your superstition as beeing daungerous because prohibited by the lawes of the lande vvherein vvee live vvee dare not entertaine that on your Popish credit For we are not so simple but to see that this m Mat. â—…3 15. compassing of sea and land this labouring to disgrace our Religion and the professours of it this forging and faining so many vntruthes this magnifying of the Papacy the members thereof the publishing of al these that in the vulgar tongue is to no other ende but to make proselytes if it may be to enlarge the kingdome of Antichrist to extende the territories of the Pope to stay and intricate the passage of the stronge to intangle the weake to perverte the simple to abuse those who are light of beliefe to feede the humour of the male-contented and to minister more poyson to those who are already intoxicated vvith the cuppe of n Apoc. 17. 〈◊〉 fornication reached out by the whore of Babylon And in respect of this your proiect we marveile not at all at your braving and facing that you are able to afford vs infinite moe Reasons vvhy your profession is true Religion VVe are now well acquainted vvith such bragges as these are and our youngest Divines who looke into your workes which come from beyonde the seas doe despise it and contemne it in you al that vvhen you haue spent many yeares in compiling your pamphlets or greater bookes yet it must be said to be done in a few weekes or monthes or as Campians Reasons were o Conclusio decem Rationum munusculum contextam operis in itinere subcisivis And when you haue raked togither all that you can say yea stolne it also from the works one of another yet you coulde make large volumes more and fill the vvorld vvith the ever-flowing streames of your continuall running rivers Of this wee shall neede no better instance theÌ„ your selfe whose huge boasts wil be displayed to be but base and poore shiftes and your Quartron will be manifested to
3. looke pale you amplifie your former proposition that if this be yeelded vnto Christs passion availed little or nothing at all for fifteene hundred yeeres but for a thousand yeeres hee vvas so farre from drawing all vnto him that he drewe not so much as one person that any man can name This is spoken like a man of some mettal indeede by this shal your disciples know how to trust you hereafter But as if yet you had deserved but one end of a sharpingstone and meant to have the rest with you before that you depart you tel vs that in our own couÌ„try there of England which whether you speake with some contept or no your selfe can best discover it is most manifest that all were Papists without exception from the first Christening therof vntill this age of King Henry the eight You are a blessed companion a man may beleeve much vpon your word Doubtlesse you perswade your selfe that all who should reade your booke would be madde or drunke or senselesse or else you must thinke that they would admitte and admire you for a singular lyar Besides that of Antiquitie the vvritings and testimony of your owne men will convince you in this to have neither wit nor shame VVe make it good against you that the thousands and ten thousands of the servants of God in the Primitive Church knew at the first nothing and afterwards but little of your blasphemous Popery and that not in the mainest points And albeit in processe of time superstitioÌ„ as it was p 2. Thes. 2. 3. 1. Tim. 4. 1. 2. Pet. 2. 1. foretold did by little and little creepe in yet in all ages God had his Church of such as did not spotte their soules with your horrible contammations And we maintaine it that in our owne lande there were testimonies most luculent of such as detested the AntichristiaÌ„ pride other loose behaviour of the Romane Clergy both in doctrin manners served the Lord after the prescript of his owne word as now we do endevor to do If you know not this M r. Doctor you have reade but little so in some sort we question your scholarship or else you have reade it and so wee question your conscience But vvee vvill hope the best that it is your ignorance although these present propositions and many other in your booke doe give vs great occasion to suspect your honest conscience Your owne men will be ashamed that you talke in this fashion as anon you shall perceive But I follow you a while T. HILL AND so the Protestants affirme of other Countries boldly say Luther in postil Ger. 1537 part 2. fol. 141. that vntill this age the Gospell lay in the dust was hiddeÌ„ vnder the bench and Christ was vnknowne Which to say as the Protestants must needes say and blush not to say indeede is meere madnes and flat infidelitie and a plaine denying of Christ and no small establishment of Mahomets Religion For the Protestantes and Mahumetanes agree in this that the Church which Christ founded fell some five or sixe hundred yeeres after his ascension into most horrible errours and then say the Turkes the Angell Gabriel was sent from God to Mahomet to teach him hovve hee shoulde reforme the saide Church because it would not stande with the wisedome and goodnesse of Almightâ—… God to suffer his Church to vanish avvaie through errours and superstitions vvithout sending in time to reforme it And in this out of doubte the Turkes have farre greater reason then the Protestantes have vvhich Protestants by their doctrin make Christ the most simple most improvident Lavve-giver that ever was in the vvorld For neither Plato Solon Lycurgus nor any other Lavv-maker vvhosoever was so simple and improvident as to fashion and plant a Common-wealth which before it were vvell setled should vanish away and come to nothing having no sufficient meanes to prevent errours and such abuses as would ever throvve their Lawes destroy their CmÌ„on wealths And therfore if Christ bee God the holy Bible true the Religion of the Papists must needes be that Religion which he ordained and left to all generations and consequently the onely true and right Religion G. ABBOT 10 SInce by your last fore-going wordes it hath appeared to bee your profession in your owne person to speake largely it is most probable that to the vttermost you will racke and pervert the speeches of other There is neither Luther nor any other ProtestaÌ„t so absurd as to say according to that which you would intimate heere that there was no Church till of late that the Gospell was absolutely hidden or Christ simplie vnknowne vntill their daies For we well vnderstand teach coÌ„trary-wise that in the Primitive Church plentifully afterward alwaies more or lesse in some parts of the world or other there were the Elect of God who groning to behould the common errours of their age did strive to beleeve and live after the rule of the Scriptures But the speech of Luther of vs in that behalfe is comparative that in comparison of that which it should bee or that which had bin not long after the Apostles or in respect of that which the Lord hath of late reveiled or of that which by the faithfull might have bin wished the Gospel had not for some later ages so free a course and Christ was not so ordinarlly vnpollutedly taught but the Bible lay much neglected and was cast aside in comparison of other bookes And while we acknowledge this we need not to blush neither is it madnesse in vs but q Act. 26. 25 the words of truth and sobernes as Saint Paule said in a like vniust accusation nor yet infidelity or denying of Christ or the establishing of Mahomets Religion Heere you heape vp many wordes but are not able to prove the least part of your owne Propositions wee must therefore give you leave to say much conclude nothing Your vniust imputatioÌ„ that not only in this but in diverse other matters we ioyne with the Turkes you borrow of Doctor Gefford who no lesse slaunderously then crakingly preteÌ„deth to do great things in his Calvino-Turcismus The maliciousnes wherof is already displayed and the crime returned by a learned r D. Sutliv in Turco Papismo man vpon the Papists themselves It is to be hoped that the Authour thereof will either in time repent him and turne to grace or receive the reward of his blasphemous speeches against Christs Religion his venimous revilings against his naturall Prince country In the meane while he may looke to the clearing of his credit from the accusations of father Parsons s Parsons manifestation cap. 1. 7. who describeth him to be very ill qualified no better theÌ„ a fire-braÌ„d in kindling dissension eveÌ„ among the English fugitives of the Romane Colledge But for our parts know you ô the whole rable of the Romish generatioÌ„ that vvee
of our Lord 1471. By this story it is manifest that both noble and learned of high account were of that Christian beleefe which Iohn Hus taught and vvere contented to adventure all things which they had in the world for the maintenance of the same 21 Perhaps here it may be asked but how shall we know that Iohn Hus and his followers did embrace that Religion which is now professed in England We finde in Aeneas Sylvius some opinions of theirs which peradventure will scant be reputed currant among all English Protestantes He rehearseth these fowre of theirs e Histor. Bohem ca. 50. That they would receiue the Sacrament in both kindes that Civill dominion is inhibited to Cleargy men that preaching of the vvords was to bee permitted to all men that publike crimes are in no sort to bee tolerated I answere truth it is that he there mentioneth onely those whither he relateth them truely or no it may be doubted as anon I shall shewe by laying open the custome of the enimies of the Gospell in mis-reporting their doctrine But elsewhere he delivereth other opinions of theirs as f Epist. 130. against the Supremacie of the Pope against Purgatorie against Invocation of Saints and such like matters If wee returne to Cochleus who was best acquainted with their matters wee shall finde much more As thus g Cochl Hist. lib. 1. Hus translated all the bookes of Canonicall Scripture into the Bohemian tongue the people did most diligently read them They would haue the holy Scripture to bee the only iudge in matters of Controversie They held that al Bishops and Priests are the successours of the Apostles That not the Pope but Christ is the head of the Church neither are the Cardinals the body but all that beleeue in Christ. That the Pope is not a member of the Church but of the Devill and his Synagoge That one Pope was a womā Yea Hus did preach that the Pope is an abomination and Antichrist Also h Lib. 2. he called the Generall Councel at Cōstance the Synagoge of Sathan Another of his Articles was i Lib. 3. The Pope is the beast in the Apocalyps His scholers after his death broke downe the k Lib. 4. Images in Churches and Monasteries Yea Zisca did cast downe all the l Lib. 5. Churches which were dedicated to the Virgin Mary or to any Saint as if it were lawfull to build a Church onely to almighty God In his time the Professours began to be distinguished into two companies The one of them did not so much dissent from the Pope as the other Those which in fewer matters differed from the Bishop of Rome retained stil the name of Hussites they which disagreed in more were called Thaborites of Thabor the Citty which Zisca built for them And these were the greater number and the stronger There is in Cochleus a m Professio fidei antiquae c. Confession of faith by one Iohannes de Pr◅bram a Bohemian who was but a Hussite and not well affected to the Thaborites because he accounted them as a kinde of Precisians or Puritanes in comparison of himselfe Yet this more milde man doth wishe and begge of God to see a reformation of the Church that there might be redressed n Artic. 57. Simonyes through all the worlde most detestable most wicked setting to sale of all Sacramentes most insatiable avarice most impudent fornications most putrified vncleannesses rottennesses most abominable Co◅ubines-keeping most polluted manners most dissolute most corrupt gestures behaviours harlotry every where too too much multiplyed in the Cleargy wherewith alas the whole earth lyeth corruptly filthy Also the Lucifer-like pride of the Cleargie vvhich is exalted above God their dainety and dayly banquets their aboundant riches and rich aboundance their disquietnesse most litigions being the cheefe roote of the quarrels of the world their curiosity most vai◅ their most vnseemely pompe of apparell their conversation most secular-like their most open transgression of all the commaundements of God their most remisse care of soules their most negligent regard of the word of God This he saith for himselfe but concerning the Thaborites who indeede came neerer to the purity of the Gospell hee witnesseth of them that they held o Articul 5◅ That materiall bread doth re◅ine in the Sacramēt◅ that the Saints now triumphant are not to be called vpon that there is no Purgatory that no suffrages or praiers are to be made for the dead◅ Also they allow not of the holy da◅es almost of al the Saints nor of the Eves or Uig◅s that go◅ before them Nor the consecrations of visible thinges as salt oyle holy-water belles and such like They have a s◅bismaticall celebration of their Masses that is a severall sort of Church-service and refuse the most celebrsou◅ service of the Churc◅ and th◅ r◅es and administrations of almost all the Sacraments Let our Papists now speake whether they wee do not agree in the same doctrine altogither For I doubt not but they who had received so much grace from God as to see all these things were also partakers of farther knovvledge in the mysteries of Salvation 22 VVhile I have spoken thus largely concerning these good Christians in Bohemia let not any man imagine that Christes faithfull flocke was restrained within the compasse of that countrey so that godly men were else no-where to bee found For certaine it is that betweene the time of Iohn Hus who was burnt in the yeere 1415. the first standing vp of Martin p An. 1517. Luther were very many other who in that darkenes did see what belonged to the light of the Gospell Among these may be reckoned as verie memorable the Waldēses who about the yeere 1508. do make q Responsio ad Doctorē Augustinū an answere in de◅ce of thēselues therin as they testifie that they thē had Priests of their own so they speake against Purgatory and most op◅ly against Trāsubstātiatiō The same touching Trāsubstātiatiō they do in a r Waldensium Confessio in fasciculo ◅erum expetend ◅ugiend Cōfessiō of theirs where also they impugne Adoration of the Eucharist There also they name the Prelates vnsav◅ry salt avouch that the execrable naughtines which was in thē by the instinct of the Devil did drive thē away frō the Sea of Rome For the Papists in their Sermon◅ did cal one another schismatikes heretikes sacrilegious false Prophets ravening wolves the beast and whore in the Revelation Of s Sleidan Lib. 16. these there were many in one part of Fraunce who time out of minde had refused to beare the yoke of the Pope and therefore in the daies of Frauncis the first king of Fraunce by a bloudy decree of that king but by the execution of one Minerius a most cruell person Merin◅ol and Cabriers with some other villages about them were sacked and destroyed men women and children being slaine Yea diverse of them
confesse that they beleaved in the Church of Rome which ever was called Catholike And is seemeth that the Protestants know in their â—…vvne consciences the name of Heretikes to bee so proper to themselves as that in their translations of the Bible vvhere the name Heretike occurreth they put in place of is a man that is the author of Sects assuring themselves that the Reader finding the worde Heretike or Heresie would presently iudge it to be meant of them G. ABBOT 4. THat Luther Calvin were Heretikes you Pseudo-Catholikes may say but you shal never be able to prove it They taught Gods truth and if ever any would have shewed them out of the Scripture that they had erred such was their mind they would have reformed it As for the name of Lutherans Calvinists to be desired or embraced by vs we vtterly disclaime it not that wee are ashamed to bee of the same faith which these worthy servants of God did teach touching the foundation of Religion but because we take our name from the Sonne of God of whom wee are called h Act. 11. 26. Christians This is the name wherein all of vs doe reioyce at all times and in all places without any exception or circumstance of dependance but the appellation of Lutherans and Calvinists or Zuinglians or any such like you in your hatred towards vs do set vpon vs. And by your rule of Chrysostome before mentioned they might without impiety be received of vs in some sence since Zuinglius and Luther and Calvine had a great stroke in the governement of those particular Churches where they-lived and were much honoured of the Congregations which were neere vnto them As for the Nestorians we at knowledge that they had their title of the Hererike Nestorius and the Pelagians of Pelagius yea if you will also the Marcionites of Marcion the Arrians of Arius according to that of Chrysostome i Homil 33. in Acta Are vvee cut from the Church have vvee Captaine Heretikes have vvee our name from men have wee any leader as Marcion is to one and Manicheus to another and Arius to a third to a fourth another beginner of Heresie But whereas you give down a general rule that Heretikes have ever takeÌ„ their names of some one who began that Heresy we pittie you much fairely demiuÌ„de of you froÌ„ what one did the k August de Haeres ad Quod vultd Euchitae the Quartidecimiani the Patriâ—…passiani yea the Anabaptists take their name you should have said that a great many had their appellation froÌ„ the auctor of their sect but not all And therefore put this also among your ignorances 5 That Luther should be afraide of the word Catholike so without reason vsurped by you or arrogated to your selues is a conceit very childish He who dreaded not to encounter your Popes triple Crowne to baite his Buls to batter his Purgatory to lay siege to Babylon it selfe was never so white-liverd as to feare the Moone shining in the water Therefore when you shall cite vâ—… some authentical warrant that he changed I beleeue the Catholike Church into I beleeue the Christian Church we will giue credite vnto you But when you bring vs Master Bristow in the first of his Motiues and he giveth vs no testimony of his speech neither quoteth any place for it we thinke that we may safely returne it to the shop in which it was first forged Notwithstanding we obserue the manner of your proceeding you Papistes taking vp things by tradition or one from another without ground to deface any man of rare note among vs. You in your margent quote Bristow and there vpon I turning to the place in him finde the same accusation but no place or tract specified only Luther is put in the margent and nothing else Your late fabler vpon l Quinti Evangelij cap. 1. Nullus Nâ—… serveth vs in this sort saving that he ascribeth that to vs all which his fellows limit onely to Luther Being to speak of the Article in the Creede I beleeve the holy Catholike Church the Communion of Saints he sub-ioyneth thervpon This Article all the Pretestants in generall as farre as in them is doe oppugne First because they have thrust out of the Creede the word Catholike in steede thereof haue put the word Christian as is Catholikes were no Christians This did Luther in the Creede in Dutch because the word Catholike is a staâ—… in the 〈◊〉 of the Protestantes It is worth the marking that first hee chargeth vs all with it secondly the instaunce is given in Luther alone and thirdly no proofe is made of that no not so much as out of Giffords Calvino-Turcismus out of which being as slaunderous a worke as his owne this excellent Authour doeth most commonly take his confirmations Thus if one Papist will bee so wicked as to devise something which was never spoken or to pervert that to ill purpose which was well spoken his fellowes will presently applaude it as a truth and publish it one after another as if it were as certaine as the Gospell Now for this of Luther if there had beene any such matter which but in probability could haue beene fastened vpon him would that sweete fellow Cochleus who pursueth him step by step haue forgotten it Or would he not aswell haue remembred him for the Creede as he did for the Pater-Noster although that also was but the seeking of a knot in a rush For it is a complaint made by m An. 1522. in actis Lutheri Cochleus against Luther that in his translation of the New Testament he did not keepe the set words of the Lordes prayer formerly vsed but for Pater noster quies in coelis he put it Noster pater in coelo and for Sanctificetur nomen tuum he translated it as if it were tuum nomen sit sanctum yet you must vnderstand that it was into Dutch that he turned it and not into Latin where in all likelyhoode it was as a great fault to put Noster before Pater as it is in English to say Our Father and not rather Father ours or Father of vs. Doe you not want matter of waight to obiect when you spende your times in such frivolous exceptions And even of this sort is the next stout reason which followeth For as Luther was afraide of the worde Catholike so are wee of Heretike that is to say never a whit for we know that there be Heretikes as Arrians Anabaptists and many more and that the Romanists are as great in Heresie as any in as much as they vary from truth in many those capitall and very dangerous pointes But if you had not trusted your maister Bristow from whom you haue n Motiv 2. stolne this but looked your selfe into our bookes you should haue seene that Master Beza had translated that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Saint Paul to o Tit. 3. 10. Titus hareticuâ—…
Faith Valent the Emperour with deadlie pravity did send teachers of the Arrian sect The Gothes held the instruction of the first faith which they receaved Ualens had before the rule of the Catholike faith but leaving it hee did intangle himselfe vvith the perverse opinion of the Arrians Therefore by the iust iudgement of God they burned him alive who by reason of him when they are deade are to burne by the fault of their errour And that is the truth your owne conscience D. Hâ—…st telleth you which is manifest by the mincing of your words the greatest part of those Gothes were Catholike Christians before Not all but the greatest part Therefore some which is in truth the whole Nation of the Uese Gothes were first coÌ„verted to Christianity by Arrian Heretikes And so your owne Proposition that Heretikes cannot convert Infidels is made voide by your owne example Nowe wheras you say that such turning is not to make the converted better theÌ„ they were before we must confesse that if you speake of such as be Heretikes indeede and not those whom you onely call Heretikes being Gods good servants that the gaine theÌ„ is but this that formerly they knew not Christ at all and now they know him in some sort although it be not so rightly as they should If this bee to bee accounted but a little then your Indian Converts of whom you boast gaine but a little by you for you mingle to their handes the doctrine of the Gospell with many pollutions of vile Idolatry most horrible superstition like to that of the olde Heathens T. HILL FOR that they having indeede the Scripture in some sorte yet have not the true sence thereof which properly is the sword of the spirite and the wordes are rather the scabard in which the svvord is sheathed And therefore they fighting onely with the scabard vvithout the sword cannot wound the heartes of Infidels And no marveile though they perverte Catholikes for that men are proue to liberty and to loosenesse of life vvhich by such doctrine is permitted So that they are indeede most aptely by Saint Augustine likened vnto Partridges which gather togither Libr 13 cótr Faust cap. 12. youngâ—…ones which they begot not whereas contrarywise the Holy Church is a most fertle Dove which continually bringeth forth new Pigeons G. ABBOT 22 HEretiks you say have the Scripturs in some sort Certainly many of them have the wordes without any difference froÌ„ the Orthodoxe For whereas many of theÌ„ spruÌ„g vp in the Greeke Church they had for the Old Testament the Septuagint in Greeke the Newe Testament word for word in that language wherein it was writen But they want the sence thereof which is the sword of the Spirit for the wordes are but the scabard and the scabard cannot wound the hartes of the Infidels What mischiefe with the letter of the text and their owne perverse interpretation Heretikes may do to theÌ„ who were formerly vnbeleevers may bee gathered by that of the Arrians last named by the Pelagians by the Donatistes and many other But those have not the true sence What is that to vs vnlesse you can prove that we also want it which M. z Ration 〈◊〉 Campian in kindnesse would threape vpon vs. There is not in the world any fit meanes to come to the right sence of Scripture which our men doe not frequeÌ„t They seeke into the Original tonges wherin the booke of God was writen They conferre translations of all sortes they lay one text with another expound the harder by that which is lesse difficult they compare circumstances of Antecedents and Consequents they looke to the Analogy of of faith prescribed in the Creede of the Apostles They search what the first Councels did establish they seeke what was the opinioÌ„s of the Fathers concerning textes in question and refuse not therein to cope with you about the highest points as the Primacy of your Pope Transubstantiation or any other vvhatsoever Yea they looke over the interpretations of your vvriters to knovve if anie thinge there occurre vvorthy observation they conferre one learned man vvith another they praye to the blessed Trinitie to open and lighten their vnderstanding and in a vvorde they omitte no meanes vvhich either Saint a De doctr Chriist l. 3 4 Augustine or anie other good writer doth or can prescribe vnto them Only heere they lay a strawe that they are not perswaded that the Bishop of Rome hath all knowledge iudgment so in b Vide Platin in Paulo 22 Scrinio Pectoris that by his finall sentence all may be resolved no not that he with the c Bellar. de veth Dei li. 3. 3. Councell which he shall like to call is the only determiner of the true meaning of al controversed passages The Poes all of them are men and therefore may be deceived many of them are ignorant men in comparison of any great Clerk-ship and many of them haue entertained vnsound opinions as Liberius and Honorius and divers Councels haue grosly erred as that second Synode of Nice and therefore blame vs not if we pinne not our salvation vpon such weake or partiall mens interpretations 23 When you report that Heretiks pervert Catholiks by your owne second Reason before handled you must meane Papistes by your Catholikes or no body and then you are a right good Proctor to speake in their cause Their matter was bad enough before and in the telling you make it worse Your Catholike men for your words can touch no other are proÌ„e you say to liberty and loosenesse of life Would you haue a fee for this pleading We do not doubt but many of theÌ„ are very licentious great breakers of the Sabaoth swearers and blasphemers and much inclined to other viciousnes whereof if a man would see the spectacle of all spectacles let him but goe to Rome And who would forbeare this lasciviousnes when a pardon from a Pope and absolution from a Priest can make all as cleere as it had never beene But we on the other side teach our people that these your peccatillâ—… doe offend Almighty God and that they yea every d Mat. 12. 36 idle word must be reckoned for and our Church discipline doth bring notorious transgressours to the censure of excommunication and open pennance for their crimes They who haue turned vnto vs are some of the best and gravest of your sect and those which bee most vertuous of life wheras contrarywise many such as among vs haue beene wanton toyish people or deeply touched with suspition of lubricity haue bin observed to retire theÌ„selues to your shores as being the fittest harbour for such rotten vessels It were an easie thing to name many who leading liues as they do a maÌ„ rightly may say of them They are fit to be Papists We doe not envy you such persons although we could wish that even such would come to the truth and not amende their former vice with future
idolatry But while you receiue such as haue had education otherwise howsoever it hath beene neglected by them you are rather the Partridges of whom Saint Austen by remembraÌ„ce of the words of the Prophet e Ier. 17. 11. Ieremy doth speak such Partridges as gather the young which you brought not forth as your Seminaries doe declare But God be praised for it some of them doe serue you as Saint f Heâ—…mer lib. 63. Ambrose reporteth that the Partridge is served For whereas one Partridge doth steale away the egges of another Partridge and hacheth them if the opinion of that learned Authour be true divers of the g Epist. lib. 7. 48. young being hatched when they afterward heate the voice of their owne and naturall dams in the field leaue their step-mother and come againe to her to whom by original right they belonged So many of your infection after true grace imparted from aboue doe returne from your Seminaries and adioine themselues sincerely and laboriously to the Church of England They are bound to blesse God who delivereth them in such sort even as h Ion. 2. 10. Ionah was freed out of the whales belly They are come out not of the Doue-house which fertilely bringeth forth Pigeons but from Babylon where i Is. 13. 21. Zâ—… and Oâ—… be and Ostriches Dragons For as the old bee there so are the most part of the young Malicorvimalâ—…â—…vum A bad crow a bad egge And now telling you that a great part of this your fourth Reason is taken out of M. Bristowes fiue and twentith Motiue I let you go play you though but for a turne or two 24 BVt to come to the Reader whereas here the tearme of Heretikes is so oft vsed against vs we briefly aunswere with Saint Gregory k Moral lib. 10. 16 ex Exod. 8. 26. That is service vnto God which to the Egyptians was â—…nation And whereas among so many other foolish ones that is made a reason why the Popish religion should be truth saving M. Doctours vnpointed and vncoÌ„cluding discourse what can there by sound argument bee enforced therevpon What shal be the ground that must be stood on For cannot Heretikes pervert The Apostles haue told vs that their l 2 Tim. 2. 17 words fret as a Canker that m Cap. 3. 6. they creepe into houses yea that n 2. Pet. 2. 2. many shall follow their daâ—…able waies And you heard before what the Arrians did Or is it not vnto truth Why as touching this disputation that is the maine question betweene the Romanists vs. And to build vpon that is but Petitiâ—… prinâ—… to seâ—…ke to haue that graunted which is mainely and especially denied We do not yeeld that any of them winning their Converts to the subiection of the Papacy do bring them to Christ but rather to Antichrist Or is it a necessary coÌ„comitant of verity in doctrine that such as haue 〈◊〉 among them should be bound to convert Nations to the faith TheÌ„ to say nothing of the Iewish Church which had the word appropriated to it alone for so long a time what shall we thinke of France and England and Ireland and many other provinces of Europe which for a thousand yeares togither are not knowne to haue converted any one countrey to Christ but haue had enough and perhaps too much to do to keep theÌ„selues in the integrity of piety And yet our Pseudo-Catholiks make no doubt but that al that while they had the right beliefe These things do manifest the ficklenesse and vnstaiednes of thâ—… foundatioÌ„ heâ—… laid But if to turâ—… men to Christ be so necessary 〈◊〉 duety what wil they say to such a strange bringing home of so many kingdomes and regions of Europe within these huÌ„dred yeares and that by a few at first and those weake ones when Sathan and the Bishop of Rome and many potent Princes confederated with him did leaue no meanes vnsought to stifle Truth as in the cradle When the sword hath not beene spared the fire hath not beene forborne when their mighty men haue stroue their learned men haue written there haue beene wanting no libels no slanders no defamations yea no rebellion and treason and massacting and poysonfull attempts and yet neverthelesse Truth standeth vpright You talke of conversion but all the lovers and wel-willers of the whore of Babylon may and do stand amazed and gaze wonder at the ruine of their kingdome by so many millions going from them And we trust in Iesus Christ the conserver of the faithfull that in peace in warre in al things that can come this Arke of Noe shall swimme in safety floate being beaten vpon with many billowes but yet evermore bee preserved God hath not in his mercy given so much light that it should be extinguished or the glory of it much dimmed before his sonnes appearance With the breath of his month hee hath 〈◊〉 Thess. 2. 〈◊〉 ken and blasted that man of sinne and it now remaineth that he should be vtterly abolished at Christes comming Gaze therfore you Romanists till your eies and heartes doe ake to see the â—…ine and confusion of the Gospell and yet as wee trust in Almighty God you shall never haue your purpose THE FIFTH REASON Largenesse of Dominion through the multitude of Beleevers T. HILL THE Church vvhich the Mâ—…ssias vvâ—… to plante must bee 〈◊〉 is aforesaide dispersed through all nations and kingdomes 〈◊〉 the Holy Proâ—…ts â—…st plâ—…ly fore-shewed and namely the Royall Prophet speaking of the Apostles and Preachers vvhich shoulde succeede them saith Their sound went forth into all parts of the Psal. 18. Earth and their wordes vnto the ends of the circle of the earth And â—…st â—…festly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…sse of Christian domiâ—… in thâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psâ—… And S. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 beasts and the fâ—…e â—…d twenty Elâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before the Lâ—…be â—…ging thus Thou art worthy Lord to take the booke and to open the seales therof Apoc. c. 5 for thou hast bin slaine and hast redeemed vs to God in thy bloud out of every Tribe and people Language and Nation and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 her plâ—… After these things saith he I saw a great company which no man 〈◊〉 able to number of al Nations Tribes and Peoples and Tongues Cap. 7. G. ABBOT IT was long since saide that whereas our blessed 〈◊〉 Saviour whcÌ„ he was takeÌ„ vp to an exceeding high mountaine and shewed all the kingdomes Math 4 8 of the world and the glory of theÌ„ did refuse that offer of SataÌ„ Al these will I give thee if thâ—… wilt fall downe worship me the Pope coÌ„ming long after hearing that such a liberal profer was made tooke the Devill at his word in hope of such a wide exteÌ„ded dominioÌ„ did fal down and adore him You come in this place to plead for your Grand-maister the Bishop of Rome by the validity of this DonatioÌ„ but forgetting that
some of theÌ„ being to be presupposed to be ordinarily intelligent in EnglaÌ„d where a ielousy is iustly had of their impostures to play acte exploit so lewde fraudulent and wicked a Pageant and thinke that they may not only go currant away with it heere but that the fame of this busines bruted els-where should serve theÌ„ beyond the Seas for Catholike purposes and bee a meanes to holde vp the reputation of the Antichristian Papacy If our seduced Romanistes vvoulde not close their eyes they might see vppon what trashe their religion is builte and that their leaders care not howe they bee abused and ledde by the nose so that their owne proiectes and intâ—…ndments be affected 18 To draw then toward an end of this point Popish wonders for the most part we precisely hould to be lies others of theÌ„ if they be done to be no better in respect of their end but delusions and meanes to deceive men by bringing them into errour And coÌ„cerning those that are really done first we maintain that they do not prove that the doers of theÌ„ are Gods servaÌ„ts For eveÌ„ in Bede himselfe who was such a magnifier of miracles I do find that one s Eccle. hisâ—… lib. 3. 25. Vilfridus could say thus CoÌ„cerning your father ColuÌ„ba his followers whose sanctity you say you imitate follow his rule precepts even confirmed by signes from heaveÌ„ I can answere that at the day of iudgment many saying to the Lord that in his name they have prophecied and cast out Devils done many wonders the Lord shall aunswere I knovve you not vvhich aunswere of Vilfridus beeing grounded on the vvordes of CHRIST is of infallible verity Secondlie we saye that miracles done doe not confirme that the doctrine of those vvho doe them is verity since that for the convincing of the Devill God hath suffered heretikes to do wonders not to ratifie their errours but to confirme other of his truth VVhich may aptly be applyed to the reports of miracles shewed by the Iesuits in the Indies if so be that any of them be true For s Con. ca. 2 Costerus one of their own companions most appositely informeth vs thus They doe saie that some of the Novatians in times past did miracles but it vvas in testimonte of the Catholike faith amonge the Gentiles not in vvitnesse of their errour as hee vvho did cast out Divels in Christes name in the ninth of Luke Then the doctrine of wonder-doers may be false as the persons of miracle-workers may be reprobates To Prophecie saith Saint t De simpli praelatoruÌ„ Cyprian and to cast out Devils and to doe greate wonders on the earth is a high and admirable matter Yet he doth not attaine the kingdome of heaven vvhosoever is founde in all these vnlesse hee doe goe in the observation of a tust and right vvay Thirdely vve teach that it is no argument of falsehoode in faith not to bee able to doe vvonders since the time of them is ceased and vvhen they were at the best they had in them no enforcement to make men beleeue the trueth For as 〈◊〉 Chrysostome saith Amonge the Iewes also miracles were shewed 〈◊〉 Inpsa 45. neither by them vvas there any profite brought to their salvation For as the beames of the Sunne are not sufficient vnlesse the 〈◊〉 also bee pure and sounde so neither heere also doe onelie miracles suffice And so Saint u â—…e duplici martyrio Cyprian Hâ—…vve manie incureable diseases deathe Lorde heale with a word to how many blinde men did hee giue sight c. And yet few beleevedon him hee heard In Beelzebub hee casteth out Devils Afterward it was so even with the same Iewes they in the time of x Soct li. 3. 17. Iulian the Apostata going about to reedifie the temple at Hierusalem and God shewing three straunge vvonders against it but yet they woulde not come to Christianitye Not long after that y Lib 7 4 a Iew comming to be a Christian was miraculously healed of a disease and yet the rest of his nation would not receiue Christ. Then the ende of them novve is to little purpose the execution of them common to the wicked vvith the godlie the practise permitted to Antichrist and his followers no such perpetuall marke-set on those that bee Orthodoxe and therefore wee striue not for them but knovve that God hath lefte a surer vvaye to vvinne men from errour and to try who are in the trueth and that is his worde and the operation of his sacred spirite But yet vvee are not so blinde but to see nor so vnthankfull but to acknovvledge that the Lorde hath for the advauncement of the Gospell vvhich vve preache done marveilous thinges In vvhich sorte vvee accounte the large spreading of the trueth by the meanes of Luther his vvonderfull preservation all his dayes notwithstanding his enemies so many so mighty so malicious his dying quietly z Sleid. l. 16 in his bed in such peace of body and minde and in that honourable accompte as that even then vvhen hee dyed hee vvas chosen an arbitratour to decide controversies betweene the noble Countyes of Mansfeld VVee thinke that it vvas marveilous that vvhen such a 〈◊〉 massacre was made of the Protestantes in Fraunce in the yeere 1572 there shoulde remaine 〈◊〉 CommeÌ„t relig reiptn Gal. lib 10. so many still as haue propagated so renoumed a Church as they haue at this day That such plenty of b Lib 12 fish should bee cast vp dayly by the sea at the seege of Rochel vvhereby as by Manna from heaven the people vvere for so many months releeved and the very day that the enemies campe brake vp the comming of the fish ceased VVhat may vvee think that so small and maligned a Citty as Geneva is shoulde be so long helde against the invasions and infinite plots of the Duke of Savoy and other vvho desire the ruine desolation of it What of the Netherlanders that after so many thousande Spanyardes and Italians buryed in their coastes so many millions of Indian gold silver spent in their country such frawd such force they should stand rich and glorious at land and at sea in better case of themselues then ever they vvere Lastlye vvhat may bee imagined of the life and raigne of our late blessed Soveraigne who after so many daungers comming to the Crowne and that in so many difficulties of subiectes at home and forraine Princes abroade yea and of the Divell every where did professe to maintaine the truth of God to deface superstitioÌ„ And in this beginning she with vniformity coÌ„tinued yeelding her land as a Sanctuary to al in the world groning for liberty of true religion florishing in wealth honor estimation every way admired by al the Monarkes whither the same of her did come and leaving matter for such a story as no Prince hath lefte the like This Queene after the defeating of the
the VenetiaÌ„s yet he shold escape with safety only his fault was that by the sword he did not reforme and redresse the abuses of the Clergy at Rome In briefe he stil preached against the Romanists and wrote divers things excellently and learnedly which yet appeare But being such a scourge vnto them the Pope r Guiâ—…iard hist. lib. 3. excommunicated him and forbad him to preach where-vnto when he assented not they caused a tumult to be raised in the City apprehended him and imprisoned him put him to torture and gaue out such a confession of his as they listed but in the ende they burnt him where with singular patience he yeelded his body to the fire and his soule to God Almighty From all these many more I draw this Conclusion contrary to that of my adversary before vrged That if such as haue beene esteemed for Prophets in this last age haue had any such gift indeede and any matter may be built on them then the Church of Rome is a strumpet full of corruptions pollutions abominations as the very denne of Antichrist And so rest they with their Visions and sit they with their Prophecies THE EIGHTH REASON Scriptures T. HILL NEither may heere the Protestant reply and say that the Papists builde vpon Miracles Uisions Prophecies and vpon such like but not vpon the UUorde for all that they alleadge are most agreeable to the word of God Neither doe they teach any doctrine but such as is derived out of the holy Bible G. ABBOT HOw you build vpon the Scriptures and what account you make of the word of God we need no better man to declare then your selfe who do evidently shew to all the worlde in what reverende esteeme you haue the sacred Oracles of the Lords booke when you thinke this to bee a fit place to speake of the Scriptures after your false imputed name of Catholikes your Uanity and Cousening your Perverting of Consciences your lying Miracles and other your not base but most base and refuse stuffe And as you doe place it worthily so you insist vpon it largely in this your whole Pamphlet consisting of an 187. Pages allowing not full out one leafe vnto that which is the a Luk. 10 42 Unum necessarium the sole anker of our hope the foundation of our confidence the ioy of our harts VVherein you do as your graund Captaines do teach you who vse but meane speeches concerning this word of God yea and your Conventicle of b Session 4. Trent wickedly equalling and making of the same authority the traditions of men with the written Scripture which sacrilegious impiety and impure blasphemy while your auditours do not perceiue decline they shew themselues not only blinded but bewitched with the cup of the c Apoc 17 21 whores inchantments And even with the like reverence you do vse it here as it were casting it into an odde corner and naming it no otherwise but as to fill vp your nuÌ„ber so skirting by it or skipping over it as the d Pli l. 8. 40 Solin c 25 dogs in Egypt do by the river Nilus where they dare not stand and drinke but lap as they runne and runne as they lap for feare of a Crocodile So when you come to the Scripture you wil stand to nothing but touch and goe for fear least some thing should here start out which should devour you and your Popery If you had beene a man of mettal if there had beene ought in the Bible assuredly making for you you should from thence haue cleered some question as the sacrifice of your Masse the Supremacy of your Pope the lawfulnes of your Priest-hood or one thing or another questioned and controversed not haue dealt by it as one would handle thornes or take a coale of fire in his hand being glad when he is first rid of it Well we must beare with you for your brevity in this Chapter but for the manner of this your placing I cannot chuse but smile to thinke how you were troubled in this your short consultation whither you should now be beholding to Campian or to your old Master Bristow for borrow needs you must that is your profession Bristow you must not leaue no not for a little moment especially since e Motiv 8â—… somewhere he hath these very matters And yet notwithstanding some variety of stealing would do well not all out of Bristowe The resolution then grew that Campians concisenesse was fitter here for your humour and his very words you would vse But to set them as the f Cam. Rat. 〈◊〉 Iesuit did in the forefront of your booke were to lay your selfe too open for some body might haue taken his booke and first read it out of Latin and then your first Chapter if it had beene your first Chapter and read it in English To satisfie both then you took this honest course that the words should be Campians and the Methode should be Bristowes you placing the treatise of the Scripture behind as worthy Bristow had done before you This sheweth that you haue a prety wit of your own To come now to the matter our reply is in truth as you say that the sandy foundation of all your rotten building doth rest vpon vncertaineties your miracles are most fained your visions are forged your Prophecies false all of them out of date no inforcement of verity to be gathered from them And on the otherside you haue little acquaintance with the word of God neither by your good wils do you desire it That which you doe you are vrged vnto by vs and then you wrest you wring you straine you stretch to make some shew for that which originally is dravvne from your humane inventions And when it is once set vp then you labour to haue some colour to warrant it or at least to make some glose howe simple folke may take it for good payment Your workes of supererogation whereby a man may doe more then deserue heaven for himselfe and haue somewhat to spare for other your dispensatioÌ„ of the treasure of your Church by the Indulgences of your Pope your Canonizing of Saints your creating of Lumbus your forging of Purgatory a multitude more or rable rather of vpstart novelties since the age of the Apostles are derived froÌ„ the tricks of their wit who haue made their purse their belly and their worldly pompous honour to be their God their summuÌ„ solum bonuÌ„ As for the sacred word froÌ„ thence they are not taken vnlesse you meane that they be so derived out of the holy Bible as that they were never in it so we deny not but your superstition may be taken out of it But were these controversed matters but probably to be collected out of the sacred Oracles you would not runne to such beggerly shiftes as in this whole Pamphlet of yours you are driven vnto They must make a shew with Counters cary about theÌ„ a purse
Synode let it be the CouÌ„cel of n Socrat. 7. 33. Ephesus which is one of the foure Oecumenical great ones For there was not onely a clamourous division for a good space betweene Cyril Bishop of Alexandria the other Orthodoxe Bishops on the one side and Nestorius with his hereticall Prelats on the other side eche maintaining their faction proceeding to deprive eche other of their Bishoprikes but Iohn Bishop of Antioch although Catholikein opinioÌ„ groweth out with Cyril also that he had fel to sentencing Nestorius before Iohns coÌ„ming whervpoÌ„ Cyril ioyning with him Iuvenal the Bishop of Hierusalem proceedeth to deprive Iohn also of his Bishoprike But afterward Iohn returning to Antioch calliÌ„g to him many Bish. falleth to the deprivatio of Cyril who was now returned to Alexandria And that these and the like tumultuous fashions were not rarely but commonly vsed in other Councels we need no better witnesse then Gregory o Epist 55 Nazianzen whose wordes touching this matter are these I am of this â—…nde of I must write that which is truth that I doe flie all Councels of Bishops because no maÌ„ yet could ever see ende of Synode to any profit and whereby things which were ill were not more exacerbated then cured For there is in them such a desire of contention and such an ambition of dominering doe not thinke me to write these things odiously and vnreasonably in this manner and they are so impossible to be overcome in disputation that if one will deale iudiciously with them hee shall sooner bee helde guilty of some other evill then convince and cleere that which is theirs This is the sentence of him who was very wise and learned and in whose time diverse Synodes were aslembled so that he might speake vpon sounde experience Thus men are and ever haue beene men and where such faction contention emulation ambition malice bitternes is may it not be well presumed that the sacred Spirite of God in respect of any immediate and extraordinary influence of truth may as well be absent as present What then can certainely and warrantably be grounded herevpon 14 If this yet doe not satisfie wil you heare the reasons of one whom by his owne words you may thinke to be a Calvinist and yet he was what he was long before Luther was borne This partye whom I produce is the Arch-deacon Nicolaus de Clemangijs who taketh on him to dispute whether in matters of fact a generall Councell mayâ—…rre or no For that it cannot erre in matters of faith or rather that it cannot finally faile wee are saith he to beleeue But let the Readeriudge whether hee doe not pointe shrewdly at that erring also and whether his reasons beat not as fully to that as to the other I must drawe into a narower roome that which he vttereth more at large but yet so as to keepe his owne words p Disputat super materia Concilior generalâ—…n Bee all Generall Councels of equall authority If they be why doth Gregorie so honour the fowre first 〈◊〉 the fowre Gospels For by singling out those fowre he leaveth in mens mindes a doubtfull suspicion of the rest If a Councel cannot erre how may that rule of the Lawyers be vnderstood that the Militant Church oftentimes doeth deceiue and is deceived And how doth the Militant Church and triumphant in this point differ if both of them be in all points infallibleâ—… is not the Church assembled in the Councell a passenger and a pilgrimeâ—… if it be then it is in the state of deserving ill or well and may doe right or otherwise That the Church cannot faile in faith we haue a testimonie from Christ Peter I haue praied for thee that thy faith faile not but for other things I remem ber no such lesson For that out of the Gospell convinceth little where two or three are gathered togither in my name there am I in the middle of them For they may be deceived amonge whom Christ is Iohn the Baptist said of him to the Pharisees He was among you and yet they vvere deceived and he was among the Iewes when he was crucified and spit vpon And what madde man will say that they could not be deceived Againe of what assistance of Christ is that to be vnderstoode if of his assistance by the presence of his divinitie that is every where and is nothing to this matter If of the assistance by his grace howe will it followe that where two or three come togither to confer about the peace of the Church or any other good Gods grace should presently br infused in them wheÌ„ before they haue perhaps committed many sinnes where of they haue nether had compunction nor made confession For thus some doe come togither and either so presently with the comming their sinnes are blotted out or else it is not necessarie that they should haue grace infused But suppose they haue grace will that make them that they cannot sinne that they cannot goe awry by ignorance or by some passion blinding them Grace moueth to doe well but doth not inforce or put in an inevitable necessity If you vnderstand it of assistance by direction inwardly that is given only to holy men who are filled with the spirit Againe Councels many times are gathered to alay schismes between Popes to make peace in the Church vvhieh perhaps God hath so interrupted that hee may doe good to the Church to purge it from pride covetonsues vanity simony Now it commeth not from Christ that men should desire only the externall peace of the Church for so doe many carnall men at this day that themselues living in idlenesse and rest they may freely serue their owne wils And who will say that these are gathered in the name of Christ who for this ende seeke the vnity of the Church Yet of these there are so many as are scant to be numbred carnall children of the Church who care for nothing that is spirituall may persecute those who are after the spirite Such as for teÌ„peral things come to the Church hypocrites eaters vp of Christ crucified and of these is the Church so full that in Chapters or Colledges you can hardly finde other And of these as being the wisest fellowes are those who are sent to Rome Princes Courtes to generall Councels these vpoÌ„ hope of greater promotion doe labor that they may be sent And are these such who will come to reforme the Church who only desire that freely theÌ„ selues may do what they list But before peace iustice can be there must be such are formation in the Church He that seeketh outward peace before spiritual peace doth as if he should build a house without a foundatioÌ„ They who were assembled at the Councell of Pisa said they had broughte peace to the Church and gaue it out to the world when there was no such matter Do you thinke then whither they were deceived or not and so a Councell may
in his Cōmētaries on the Prophets you cānot deny so it overturneth your reasō that those who were neerest to the Apostles should do best by taking it fresh frō thē so frō hand to hand For some of the later did not only equall but farre exceed those who were their fore-runners as Chrysostome in the Greeke Church may shewe Yet vnderstand all this that we haue no matter of moment in any point of religion nor scant any interpretation of Scripture but wee vndertake to advouch it from some or more of the Fathers in one place or other of their writings where they hādle those things It is Popery which lately crept in that hath with the Glosses therof declined both the sēce of the holy Ghost of the old Fathers while the pleasures of Popes the quiddities of the barbarous schoolmē have perverted almost the whole face of Divinity brought it to curious speculatiōs vnprofitable questiōs Whē you put it to trial you shal see that we are not so destitute of the Fathers for the proofe of our religion the exposition of texts nor so altogither vnstudied and illiterate as you in your weake vnderstanding imagine vs. Touching the imputation of profanenesse you shall heare of me heereafter Luther in capt Bap. Causaeus vbi supra Centuriat centur 2 c 10. Calvin instit cap 13 num 29. Centur 2 cop 5 Causaeus dialog 8 11 6 Bez◅ in Act Apost cap 23. T. HILL BUT indeede it is no marveile though the Protestants do contēne yea revile the Fathers in saying they taught thinges most like to dreames they were doating olde men they had foule blemishes and tolde trifling tales they had weedes and dregges blaspemies and monsters they were childish dull and destitute of God and babbled they knew not what they were bewitched of the Devil as damned as the Devill blasphemers naughtie wicked G. ABBOT 5 HEere you bring a prety beade-roll of such fragmēts as you have scraped to gither out of some of our side who as you thinke haue perstringed diverse of the Fathers or at least by your perverting or distorting of their wordes you would haue the world to thinke that they haue shrewdly galled thē Wherin you are much to be cōmēded that to make the better shew both in your text margēt you bring vs the same things quotatiōs againe out of Causaeus Luther which in this very Chap. but one leafe before you delivered vnto us This is no rare matter in your writers for your n In Matth. 16 18 Rhemists play a pretier part then that when meaning to spare for no cost to prooue Peter to be such a rocke ason whō the Church is principall built they thwacke authority vppon authority to as good purpose as they can And therfore they haue in the margēt S. Austen Serm. 26. de Sanctis and in the text S. Ambrose Serm. 68. which are both but one Sermō put in the workes of both those Fathers but in truth belonging to neither of thē Which must needs shew that Papists in their greatest matters doe either proceede idly or else of purpose they do bodge with their folowers citīg one for two as if a man should saye that in Pompeyes time o Luc lib 3◅ Plut. in Cesar Iulius broke vp the treasury at Rome and tooke out much mony and one Caesar about the same time broke open the same treasury therevpon should conclude that therfore the Treasury was twise forcibly entred into when lulius Caesar was al but one man What Luther spake was not against a Father but a counterfeit not against Dionysius Areopagita but against some meane fellowe shrowding himselfe vnder his name In K. Henry the 7. time a man might wel haue taunted p Holinshed in Henri 7. Perkin Warbeck yet not haue offended against the roial bloud in the children of K. Edwarde the 4. And the same is to be said for Causaeus who is to be imagined not to say ought against true Dionysius but against that doater who vsurpeth that name Now howe shameful a matter is it for you to bring in these as railing against the Doctors whē by distinguishing this false one frō those who be right they do coūtenāce the true as much as they discoūtenāce the fained He who saith that false mony is but brasse or copper doth not speak evil of the kings lawful wartantable coine Your first fault against the Magdeburgenses is taken out of the second q Cap. 10. Century where being ex instituto to giue their censure on the writers of that age they yeeld vnto thē al their due cōmendation of zeale in Gods cause of diligēce in preaching writing of fortitude in oppugning heresies of enduring martyrdome They shew also to what points of religiō they do speake taking on thē to shew what is amisse in divers of thē they vse these words As that the Epistles of Ignatius haue in thē some things which do seeme to incline to deformed blemishes You might haue marked that before that speech they haue doubted of the credit authority of some of those Epistles whither they properly belong to Ignatius or no. So in Papias they say there was naevus a blemish also that Clemens Alexandrinus Athenagoras had their blemishes And so of Iustinus Martyr What word can be more gently spoken then to say they had their blemishes the truth being so in such sort as no Papist can excuse it For that I may say nothing of divers things foūd in thē which with you cā be no lesse thē disputable but with vs are reputed no sound doctrine neither of some other plaine errours it is apparant that divers of thē as Papias Iustinus Martyr did hold the Millinary heresie for the same are taxed by the Century writers That which you mētiō of trofling tales if you apply it to thē is worthy to be laughed at for they haue no word of anie such matter in all that Chapter vnlesse you take it out of their narration concerning Phocas of whō they say that they passe oversome things reported by r Lib 10 Vincentius inspeculo because they seeme to be fables And what doth this detract frō the Fathers among whō I trust you put not Vincentius Phocas did vvrite nothing for ought that wee finde And it is not impossible that such a Legendary felow as Vincentius is may tel a tale of S. Hierom S. Ambros or S. Austē yet the reputatiō of these Doctors be among learned men never the worse Of Ireneus the Magdeburgenses say most mildly that he hath certaine inconvenient opinions as stubble they cite this for one which I beleeue no sober Papist will hastily mainetaine that Christ was baptized at thirty yeares of age preached at fortye and vvas crucified at fiftye And that hee helde the errour of the Chiliasts or Millenaries 6 The secōd place which you cite out of the
s Cent 2 5 Centuries deserveth a whoop for there is not one word against any Father but to coÌ„mend theÌ„ for writing against the ValeÌ„tinians Gnostiks Matcionites Montanists such like other heretikes And to the opinioÌ„s of these heretical sects they giue y e titles of moÌ„sters porteÌ„ts doatings such other as they wel merited NOW if you of your goodnes wil take these heretiks for Fathers the Centuriatours speake indeede hardly of such Fathers for the which wise men will not blame theÌ„ but if you apply their ceÌ„sure coÌ„cerning heretiks to be a railing on the Fathers whoÌ„ they rather extol this is such egregi ous ignotance or blindnes or malice as can scant be coÌ„ceived by me can never be excused by you Like to this is your quoting of Calvins Institutions where you name not the booke which intendeth that you never sawe him nor reade him In his foure books there is not any thirteenth Chapter which hath Paragraphes or Numbers 29. but only the first booke And there is nothing touching this matter this excepted s Cal. Instit Lib 1 c. 13 numer 29 That nothing is more vnsaverye then those fonde trifles vvhich are put out vnder the name of Ignatius Hee yeeldeth his reason for his wordes And this is not to revile Ignatius but to reiecte leaden and copper stuffe which would gladly be shrowded vnder his winge And if this be to revile the Fathers almost all both Protestants and Papists who haue taken any paines to revise and publish the Doctours or to make any Annotations on their writings doe revile them for they shewe that many things are crept in among their true workes which are not worthy to goe vnder their names As for Causaeus I cannot yet by any search get sight of the booke but wee may iudge by that formerly obiected against him concerning Dionysius that if we had the booke your cavil did containe no great matter in truth And by Calvine and the Century writers before named we plentifully finde that you make no coÌ„science to abuse and mis-report any mans words so that thereby you may make some shew with your credulous followers But if it were so that Causaeus a private man and of no great reckoning for ought that I have heard had saide some-thing which coulde not be iustified the single coÌ„ceit of this one maÌ„ is not to be held for the iudgement of al the reformed Churches That which you alleage from Master 〈◊〉 Beza is a manifest depravation of yours Beza in Act. cap. 23 for you make that to bee directly and absolutely spoken which is vttered conditionally If that should bee true in Hierome saieth he which Erasmus vpon this place hath set downe he shoulde not only wrong Saint Paule but should be blasphemous against Christ. He assigneth this for his reason because hee did search for some take of imperfect piety in Christ. Now who doth doubt but to labour to finde a hole in our Saviours behaviour and to vvitnesse of him that any part of sanctitie in him vvas vnperfect is nothing lesse then blasphemy 〈◊〉 Blasphemy yet beeing taken 〈◊〉 Mat. 12. 31 not for the sinne against the holy Ghost but for that kinde of evill speaking or detracting which by the mercy of God may bee forgiven The matter then is that the collection which Erasmus made vpon the wordes of Hierome is too hard and not the illation which Beza bringeth in ther-vpon If Erasmus mistook Hierome or strained him too farre Beza hath nothing to say against Hierome Thus some of your accusations are for ought that I can finde meerely forged and fained by you some other things are aggravated and made worse then they be some iust censures vpon counterfeits are vrged by you as if they were invectiues against their true works some speeches against one apparantly erroneous doctrine is construed of you as if it were vttered against all that the Doctors haue wrote the taxing of one treatise or of some one sentence therein is traduced as if it vvere the reiecting of all Yet when all is done he is a simple Reader that cannot see that as your suggestions are partiall and slaunderous so our vsage to the Fathers of the Church is such as to giue them their full right In token whereof it were easie to shewe in the writings of our men many high praises and commendations given by them to Hierom to Chrysostome to Augustine the rest T. HILL FOr they who cannot endure certaine set times to fast in no marveile though they revile Saint Basile Saint Gregory Nazianzen S. Leo S. Chrysostome which wrote such notable Sermons of Lent and of other fasting dayes theÌ„ vsed as they are now in the Catholike Church G. ABBOT 7 YOV haue given vs the rule before that we revile the Fathers novve vvee shall haue the reason annexed to the rule The Fathers write notable Sermons concerning Lent and other fasting daies as they are nowe vsed and wee cannot endure such fastes therefore we hate the Fathers writing of that argument I vvoulde you coulde learne to hate vntruth and then your eies would bee so opened that you should see little of this which you write to bee true Hovve prooue you that the Doctors speake of Lent and fasting daies as you now vse them You name vs first Saint Basile in whome I finde onely two Sermons concerning fasting The x Serm. de Ieiunio former of them is in commendation of abstinence howe good it is for the soule howe healthfull to the body And there is not one worde in it to which vvee doe not assent giving due commendation therevnto His second Sermon doth beare a title which seemeth more to make for you y Deieiunio pridie diei Cinerum Of the fast the day before the day of Ashes which implyeth that then they kept a day of ashes as now you keepe Ashewednesday I will not heere discusse whether the solemne vse of ashes was so auncient or no the contrary wherof directly appeereth out of Polydore Virgil 〈◊〉 saying that Gregory who came two hundred yeeres after first appointed Lent to begin on the 〈◊〉 De inventorib reruÌ„ Lib. 6. 3. Wednesday and added diverse solemnities vnto it as by name the taking of ashes where-withall this is said Remember man that thou art ashes and â—…to ashes thou shalt returne againe Hence first the title of the Sermon may very well be supposed to be crept in by some later meanes SecoÌ„dly if you wil allow it then your Shrove-Tuesday must be a fasting day which the Romanists Carnevall may not admit Thirdly if you had looked into that Sermon it selfe you might haue found that more then once Basile speaketh of a fast onely for five daies no more which being to be kept no loÌ„ger vtterly overthroweth your positioÌ„ that in those times Lent and fasting daies were observed as now they be You haue hard happe Doctour Hill to trippe vp your owne heeles In Gregory Nazianzen
we should hold him accursed And incited there vnto by some of the Fathers themselues in open wordes by other in their Orthodoxe meaning For what Father woulde dare to thinke that his speeches shoulde over-rule the Scripture As for wringing and wresting and straining we detest it Gods truth needeth not to be vpheld by vntruthes We leaue that to the masons of the Popes part who had need vse such supporters to vnder-proppe the rotten and dayly falling ruines of their Antichristian kingdome Now whereas you tell vs that he is most praised of the Auditory who most alleageth the Doctors you had need to help your selfe with more then one distinctiō For among sober wise hearers it is wel accepted when the Fathers are cited to good purpose orderly but some other there be who thinke themselues no meane folkes which on a humorousnesse and because their Preachers are ignorant that way they I meane those ignorant Pastours haue taught them so like not to heare them quoted in the Pulpit Againe the wisest congregation doth not approue of the preposterous vsing of them as vvhen they are cited frequently and yet onely in Latine or Greeke and not Englished to the edification of the people vvhich Saint o 1. Cor. 14. 26. Paule vvoulde ever have aimed at Or vvhen they are hudled one vppon anothers necke vvithout cause Or vvhen they are multiplyed rather for ambition then vppon desire of fruite or vtility You might have considered vppon these thinges but you vvith the Crocodile or Hyena fall rather to a counterfeite commiseration that it is a pityfull thinge that the people shoulde bee made beleeve that the Doctours vvere of the same opinion that vvee are in religion You may doe well to taxe those men who in their Sermons have abused or perverted the sentences of those grave and learned personages Of the two you should rather pity your Papisticall Congregations vvhich are little troubled vvith Scriptures or Doctours but vvith such miracles and fabulous Legendes as your Friers doe lay before them and nothing else So are they turned to puddle waters in steede of the cleere streaming fountaine of the vvater of life That our Preachers who have reade any of the Fathers themselves doe know that they make against that vvhich they preache is an idle suspicious surmise of your owne and nothing else but a falling backe by a Nugatio to that vvhich you formerly have spoken It is one of the highest breaches of conscience for a man standing in the place of God to speake to the people there to vrge that vvhich in his ovvne harte hee knoweth contrary to truth This is inough for Bellarmine and such desperate wretches vvho for a Cardinals hat or some other expectation have solde themselves and their soules to their LORD God the Pope and his LORD God the Devill 24 I haue all this time traced the steppes of a bolde and malicious adversary but now I rather apply my pen to give satisfaction to the doubtfull Reader concerning this maine question Our Popishe writers speake in grosse of the Fathers but what themselves in speciall determine of them they dare not open So much paines therefore ◅s is expedient I purpose to take for them First then I aske them vvill they haue vs accept of all thinges which these learned Doctors haue taught Graunt this and then many bee the heresies vvhich wee must maintaine hovve many were there of them vvhich imagined that the godly after the resurrection should raigne on the earth and that but for the space of a thousand yeeres in all worldly felicity which is the errour of the Chiliasts or Millenary heretikes So dreamed Irenaeus and is taxed for it by p Eccl. Hist. lib 3 33 Eusebius In this conceite also was Tertullian drenched as appeereth by his disputation against q Lib. 3. Marcion VVith the same also vvas Iustinus Martyr tainted as is evident by his Dialoge with Tryphon the Iewe. Yea this opinion descended so lowe that Lactantius vvho lived in the daies of Constantine the Greate vvas not r Divin Iustit l. 7 14◅ free from it Doth not Eusebius s Eccl. Hist lib 6. 11. note it concerning Clemens Alexandrinus that hee doth much comment vpon Apocryphal matters as if they were Scripture How many were the heresies of Tertullian while in all his later workes he raveth vpon the Paraclete of Montanus to the which fantasticall opinion hee was most grossely vvedded One vvhile he thinketh that s Tertul. de Monogamia second mariages are altogither vnlawfull in the Church Another while he frameth a t De ◅uga in persecutione booke that it is not lawful for any Christian to flie at all in the heate of persecution Saint u Epist 157 Austen observeth truly of him that hee contended that the soules of men were not spirits but bodies that they haue their original of bodily seedes Yea so farre he went awry that u Contr. Helvidium Hierome saith of him plainely Of Tertullian I say nothing more but that hee was not a man of the Church VVith him I ioyne Origene who continually almost in his commentaries on the old Testament doth not only by Allegories pervert the literal sence of the stories but sometimes in expresse termes saith that x In Exod. Hom. 1 2 6 in the literal meaning the narration cānot be true which is an exceeding iniury to the Spirit of God Another while he will have the y De Principij l. 3. 6. Devill all the Reprobates albeit they suffer hel torments for a space yet at the last to be saved which doctrine z In ◅on 3 Hierome doth most iustly perstringe howsoever in another treatise he give him his due commēdation for some matters saying a Libr N◅min Hebraicor No man but hee vvho is ignoraunt doth denye that Origene after the Apostles vvas a maister of the Church But for that opinion b Lib 2 Ex pol. in 1 Regum Gregory did not suffer him to goe vvithout his censure Origene saith hee vvhile hee would see without the word of the Lord the Lord appeering hee savve the cloude inordinately because hee vvas afraid at the appeering of the fire For while denying the very least iustice of God he did proclaime his clemency to bee more then needed hee affirmed that hee woulde not onely spare condemned men but also one daye hee woulde deliver the reprobate Angels from everlasting punishment Another of c Commēt super lohannem Origens fancyes vvas that Christ did dye not to redeeme men onely but the starres of heaven He who would see more of his errours may reade d In Ancorat◅ Epiphanius where he passeth not without his taxe but especially let him looke e Lib 1 Theophilus Alexandrinus where his heresies are cited out of his owne works there he hath the severest sētence that may be pronoūced vpō him which is only in Gods hād to give Caesarius
the brother of Gregory Nazianzen hath little better opinion of him when hee first termeth him f Diolog 3 a vaine trifler but afterward impious and an idle talker Breefely the famous sentence of g Contr. Haeres cap 23. 24 Vincentius Lytinensis concerning him Tertullian biteth deepe as the Reader may see if hee please to looke into that Authour 25 I come now to some other of these worthy men but yet still men and therfore may trippe in their pathes Cyprian was a good Bishoppe and a Martyr for the truth of CHRIST yet h Concil Carthag in CypriaÌ„â—… Euseb Eccle Hist lib 7â—…3 hee and diverse Africane Bishoppes swarved from the truth in the question of rebaptizing those vvho vvere baptized by Heretikes Of him Saint Augustine vvriteth thus i Lib 1 de Baptism 〈◊〉 contra Donatistas UUhereas that holy man Cyprian thinking otherwise of Baptisme then the matter vvas which afterward vvas handled and by most diligent consideration established did continue in the Catholike Unity it vvas both recompenced by the plentifulnesse of his charitie and vvas purged by be cutting booke of his suffering VVhat a straunge imagination was that of k Lib 10 de Trinitat Hilary when hee supposed that all the hurtes and vvoundes did no more touch or affect Christ on the Crosse or else-where theÌ„ blows do the aire or the water or prickiÌ„g the fire He thought that there was a violeÌ„ce offered on the adversaries parte but no smart or paine of Christs part This strange supposal doth l Part 3 quaest 15 art 5 Thomas Aquinas labour to excuse in Hilary but the blemishe is so plaine as that by no meanes it can bee covered VVhat Lactantius thought of the holy Ghost I had leifer sette downe in Hieromes vvoordes then in mine owne m Epist 65â—… Lactantius in his bookes but especiallye in his Epistles ad Demetrianum doth altogether denye the substance of the holye Ghost and by a levvishe errour doth saye that it is either referred to the Father or to the Sonne and that the sanctification of either person is intended vnder the name of it that is the holye Ghost And had not Hierome himselfe those thinges in him vvhich cannot bee defended As his n Contr. lovinian immoderate preferring of single life before mariage and his o Aug Epist. 19 pertinacious advouching that Saint Peter did not deserve to bee reprehended by Saint Paule for p Gal 2 12 halting vvith the Iewes Chrysostome besides his too forward testimonies for free-will which Papistes themselves dislike is of minde q Hom 3 in Epist ad Philip. Hom 11. in 1. ad Cor. teacheth it that although men dye in sinne be condemned and in hell yet almes and ostrings other helpes of praiers done by them who are alive may ease them and diminishe some measure of their tormentes Neither doth Saint Augustine want his imperfections as wheÌ„ he determineth that all children dying without r Epist 28. Baptisme go to the flames of hell which the Romanistes nowe wil not admit And wheÌ„ he liketh their iudgment who thought that vpon hazard of their salvation the s Epist. 106. 107. Eucharist was to be administred to Infantes Many more such examples might be added of vndoubted errours in these learned meÌ„ wherin I trust no Papist is so absurde as to prescribe vnto vs that we should ioyne with them least of good Christians we should become lovers of errours and in some things embracers of heresyes Besides these vnquestionable over-sightes it falleth out ofte that the Fathers do some of them differ nay are contrary or coÌ„tradictory in iudgment some to other and some to themselves What shal we doe in this case or whom shal we follow if the bare authority of these writers be of it selfe so stronge as they would make it I will not instaunce in those hereticall or erroneous opinions before named where some of them affirme and some Orthodoxely deny and a Christian man without the Scripture can give no decision vvhether is in the right Cull out that onely for example sake vvhere Hierome and Augustine doe so differ about Saint Peter and Saint Paule vvhether of them did amisse hovve should we know but by the Apostles writing But to whether of them in this contradictorie case shulde vvee give credite if they vvere considered in themselves Neither vvill I instaunce matters of meane respecte as hovve Saint s Quaest. 123 sup Exod qu. 81. sup Levitie Austen crosseth himselfe in this question whither the Cydaris vvere an attire for the heade or no Or vvhether Plato spake personally vvith the Prophet Ieremie in Aegypte and learned of him many thinges or no to the which being the iudgement of Ambrose in one t De doctr Christ lib 2 28 place hee assenteth but in u De civit Dei l. 8 11 another hee speaketh against it But I rather referre men to their differences about the Canonicall Scripture vvhich i Responsad Ration 8. before I have shewed and vvhich is a matter of greate momente Or to those thinges which Saint Augustine himselfe u In libr Retract retracted in his owne vvorkes Or to those different iudgementes in capitall causes vvhich Bellarmine citeth in infinite places and Sixtus x In Bibliothe casaÌ„cta Senensis in verie many Or to such like as that of Gregory where one vvhile hee saith that Cornelius by those y Homil 9 in Ezechi vvorkes vvhich vvent before his faith did merite that hee afterward might haue faith and another z Homil 19. while hee expressely denyeth that and saith that by faith hee came to his workes Now if there bee such doubtes as these in the Fathers or other like and we cannot be resolved out of these Doctours or if question be of the verity of their doctrine whither must we haue recourse The Papistes will say to the Church of Rome that is to theÌ„selves but the Fathers wil tell vs to the word of God as forth-with I shal shewe which every way discovereth the base weakenesse of the vnCatholike Church since the Doctors are not the touch-stone of truth but are themselves to be tried by some thing else they are not selfe sufficient but all their words are to be weighed in the ballaunce of the Sanctuarie where if they beare waight they are to be accepted if they be found too light they are to bee reiected Our ground then and foundation is not in these men although never so worthy men but the booke of God must make the finall and irrefragable decision 26 For the better establishing of this let vs heare the Fathers themselves speake I put Saint Augustine in the foremost ranke as one vvho had most occasion to deale in this argument In the controversie betweene him Hierome he is a Epist. 19 pressed with the authority of other writers Hee answereth I doe confesse vnto your charity I have learned to give this
reverence and honour to those onely bookes of Scriptures which are called Canonicall that I doe most firmely beleeve that no authour of them did erre in writing any thing To other then hee taketh exception Hee speaketh elsewhere plainer b Epist. 48. The Fathers are not so reade as if a testimony might bee so drawne out of them that it were not lawfull to thinke contrariwise if they have otherwise suppoâ—…ed then the truth did require And againe c Epist. 113. I have put the opinions of so great men c. not that I doe thinke them to be followed as the Canonical Scripture And wheÌ„ he was hard pressed in the Controversie of Baptisme with the authority of Cyprian hee aunswereth Cresconius d Contr. Crescen GraÌ„matic lib 2â—… I esteeme the letters of Cyprian not as Canonicall but I consider them out of the Canonicall and looke vvhat agreeth in them to the authoritie of the Divine Scriptures vvith praise to him I receive vvhat doth not agree vvith his good leave I refuse And afterward Because that is not Canonical vvhich thou râ—…est vvith that libertie to vvhich GOD hath called vs I doe not receive that vvhich savoured amisse of that man vvhose praise I cannot attaine vnto to vvhose many letters I doe not compare my vvritinges vvhose vvitte I lone vvith vvhose speech I am delighted whose charity I doe admire whose martyrdome I hold venerable Can ought be delivered more significantly and to our purpose then this is And least that any man should suspect that hee was more strictly laced toward other men theÌ„ he would have other toward him he frequently writeth as modestly of himselfe as he doth wisely of those who went before him As to e Epistol 7 Marcellinus I therefore doe confesse my selfe to bee of the number of them vvhe in profiting doe vvrite and in vvriting doe profite VVherevpon if any thing bee set dovvne by mee either vnvvarily or vnlearnedly which not onely by other men vvho can see that may bee vvorthily reprehended but also of my selfe because even I at least aftervvard ought to see it if I doe profite it is neither to be wondered at nor to be grieved at but rather it is to be pardonned and to bee reioyced at not because there hath beene an errour but because it hath beene disliked For that man doth too perversely love himselfe vvho vvill have other men also to erre that his errour may lye hid And to Fortunatianus f Epist. 111. Neither are wee to account the disputations of any men though Catholikes and commendable persons as the Canonical Scriptures that saving the honour which is due vnto those men it is not lawfull for vs to dislike and reict some thing in their writings if perhaps we shal find that they haue otherwise thought then that truth hath which by the helpe of God hath either bin vnderstood by others or by vs. Such a one am I in the writings of other mens such would I have the vnderstaÌ„ders of mine to be And handling the high mysteries of the Trinity he saith g De Trinit at l. 1. 3 Whosoever readeth these things where he is alike sure let him go on with me where alike hee doubteth let him seeke vvith mee vvhere hee knovveth his errour let him returne to me vvhere hee spieth mine let him recall mee And in the same booke else-where h Lib. 〈◊〉 in pâ—…aefation Let the one not love mee more then the Catholike faith let the other not love himselfe more then the Catholike truth As I say to the one doe not attend on my writings as on the Canonical Scriptures c. This is the minde of Saint Augustine 27 Neither doth this renoumed servant of God heerein goe alone but he hath sufficient of others who in this be halfe do second him The great Dionysius not the supposed Areopagite but another worthy man since his time did long ago informe vs in this doubt Eusebius bringeth him in speaking thus i Eccles. Hist l 7 19 I do very much reverence Nepos yet truth is the neerest friend of all and ought deservedly to be preferred before all And if any thing be rightly spoken that is to be commended without envy but if any thing bee committed to writing not sincerely and soundly this with diligence is to bee sought out to be reprooved To this effect also are the words of S Hierome I k Epist 62 doe know that I my selfe doe esteeme of the Apostles in one sort and of other writers in another sort that the first do alwaies speake the truth and the latter as men doe in some things erre Adde to these that of Theodoret who saith that l Dialog 3. the Fathers of the Church by a veheâ—…ent contention against their adversaries doe many times exceede measure Thus they vse to do who plant trees For wheÌ„ they see a tree growne crooked they do not onely set him vp vpright but they doe bende him to the other side that by too much inclining to the contrarie parte they may cause it to bee straight This is the iudgement of the auncient vvriters themselves concerning the workes of one another that they go too farre that they do may erre that they are not to be ioyned in equal estimatioÌ„ with the Canonical Scriptures And therfore what reasoÌ„ have we not to vse our ChristiaÌ„ liberty in examinig of theÌ„ by the rule of truth so to embrace that which is right and to repudiate that which is of another nature I doe marveile then what advauntage our Papistes doe thinke they can gette by craking vppon the names of these since their authority even in their ovvne iudgement is not absolute and Dictatourlike but vvith a reference and meerely dependent vppon a higher commaunder In which case if they stoope to the scepter of the LORD wee willingly and readily admit of them vvith due honour and reverence othervvise we leaue them But the tryer of them we hold to be the Canonical Scripture of the olde and new Testament 28 On the other side how the Synagogue of Rome speake they of these Doctours never so faire doe deale vvith them it is good that every vveake Christian shoulde know For howsoever they in their vvordes pretende greate honour to them yet in truth they are the onely men in the vvorlde vvho offer notorious vvronge to them For first how are they debased when such lights of the Easterne and VVesterne Church men so fraughted vvith knowledge and adorned vvith eloquence shall not onely bee sette in comparison vvith but set after the Popes barbarous champion Thomas of Aquine Noble Hierome thou hast vvell studyed and renoumed Augustine thou hast wel laboured to come to such a preferment in thine old age For one of the Popes Aug HuÌ„naeus in praefat SuÌ„mm Aquinat ad Pium 5. Pontific Innocents did so much esteeme the learning of Aquinas that he doubted not to give vnto him the first place after