say but at aduenture of the things which you neueÌ„r heard ne sawe I would you had played an honest mans part and had vsed but equall weight and measure not haue contrarie to your promise where you said you wil alledge the Authors words and neither adde ne diminish taken here three or foure linâ—s and then passe ouer tenne or twelue and then againe take two lines and againe passe ouer sixe lines take halfe a line c. and so make a sentence thereof Thus is your doings found out of so many as haue coÌ„pared your allegations with the bookes of the Authour Notwithstanding all this you protest that you are voyde of malice in your vntrue booke seeming rather to pitie the poore seduced people then otherwise intending enuie You promise likewise to put downe nothing wherof you haue not sufficient warrant by certaine in the Duche Church but sure I am not of Christes Church for as much as they exercise not their moutheâ— with Iyes but you haue heard so and therefore it is so men of good credite say so I had rather heare an honest poore mans report truly spoken then a riche credible man 's that is a lyar and it is well knowne to some of the Duche Church that your credible men are lyars yet can you be content to fauour their reportes And as touching the cyting of H. N. his owne words without adding or diminishing I am ashamed of your disorderly dealings therein that shall so appeare in the aunswere to the booke as ye shal be proued therein as in y rest a falsister of both The speach which you pretend to haue had with many of the company I dare affirme it to be a great vntruth is but a visard as you haue saide of them to couer your malice withall I would shame would let you tell the truth then should you say as it is that your mate E. L. one of your own familie hath prompt you forward in these matters especially against Christopher Vitall a man whose honest life and conuersation you were neuer able to come nearâ— nor shall vnlesse you mend your wordes deedes weightes measures and waxes But will you see one notable matter which you haue gathered out of this Authors wordes more that is The truth hath not bene taught in the world since the Apostles time but nowe by the Familie the Scripture affirmeth that Christ the onely trueth hath saide My kingdome is noâ— of this world and howe can the trueth be taught where the kingdome is not for it hath bene euer hid from the worlde and her wise but yet alwayes manifested amongst the outseuered ones from this world And euen as the enimies of the same trueth haue alwayes martyred Gods holye ones euen so nowe woulde suche worldlings as you are doe had you power thereto And this I assure you that the very same doctrine which those Martyres haue taught the same doth H. N. teach but you say truth seeketh no corners see your appliment herein Christe commandeth his disciples saying When they persecute you in one citie flee vnto an other we read that Christe also many times went from place to place to auoyde such your forefathers the Scribes and Pharisees who sought his life And I pray you did not Iacob flee from his brother Esau Noe from the whole worlde Lot from the Sodomites Elias from all men Dauid from Saule with infinite more examples Then howe doe you approue your matter It can belike be no truth except you allowe it to be true a sound consequent Likewise you say vntruely citing the wordes that the Illuminate Elders can not erre nor sin nor dare before the simple ones in Christes Churche approue their Authours doctrine you haue I am sure good warrant to seuer the Illuminate Elders in the godly wisedome and holy vnderstanding out of the Church of Christ. But I haue better to proue that you are not thereof You disallowe others of bosting bicause you might boast alone is the suffering with Christ to rayle vpon his true meÌ„bers or else in patieÌ„ce to take vp our crosse and so suffer till by his suffering in vs we be deliuered iustified but I dare say you vnderstand me not now from sinne death diuill and hell but your wordes are no slaunders as you thinke else woulde you season them with truth for very shame For were it permitted that companie with indifferencie to auouch the trueth of their cause as it is permitted you and your companie slaunderously to blaspheme you shoulde then bee shewed in your right colours Ye say also that their Rabies or Elders haue recanted Arianisme at Paules crosse as well might you be charged with other matter c. But your obiection is false witnesse my Lorde of Canterburie that nowe is and yet more were to be saide but the companie hopeth your conuertioÌ„ although at this present your brethren in Christ for their good faithes cause they haue in your licentious doctrine of predestination and free election fill all the prisons almost in England but what reason haue I to charge you therewith but forsooth to put you in minde that you looke to your selfe and yours before you reproue others which mee thinketh is but reason You giue a glaunce also at the greatest house in this realme which you wish were cleare of such errours but put vp your bolt I aduise you whether that house hath auctoritie to ouerlooke you and your adherents that may you knowe hereafter Moreouer you say you could if you listed to be a blab tell out many discentions among them who yet you confesse will not in their best thinges make you or any other acquainted much lesse in things against them selues but it is true like the rest all this is but to make your speaches wonderfull and your modestie greater then it is You forget thereby many Protestants I thinke excelling you in vnderstanding in Rome Spaine Italie and other places vnder the Bishop of Romes inquisitioÌ„ which holde it good pollicie to defend them selues their consciences in keeping them from such Tyranny Will you not allowe to others as you gladly challeÌ„ge to your self â–ª then we must say you are vnequall in your doings But wil you see the most egregious vntrueth that can be spoken by this newe shamelesse writer He alledgeth Iohn Leydon and Snypper Dolling at Munster in Westfalia which were duely punished for Anabaptisme by the gouernours and Lordes of that time and place as appeareth by many writers as Iohn Sleydon and others And because these men were Hollanders and as he affirmeth schollers of Dauid George therefore H. N. must be belike by that reason one of that confederatie For although many learned writers do affirme their matter to be Anabaptisme yet this man will haue it the Familie of Loue. Fulwell doe you open your malice herein as in the rest with your forefathers who saide that Christ had the diuell and was a wine bibber a companion of
speach be qualified or expoundedsoundly or christianly if you haue not this booke among you I shall be content to sende you either the book or the coppie therof that you may examine your Authours doctrine better For in my opinion this is blasphemie And where you say that the world shall knowe ere it belong what your meaning is therin I am vncertain except you would that these our conferences should be published whiche if it be your mind send me word for I am not ashamed of any thing that I haue written and then lette the children of God in the world iudge where trueth and plaine dealing is then shall appeare the difference of doctrin betwéen vs The Lorde worke his will in vs that in all our actions wee seeke his glory and not our owne praise Amen The 16. of March. 1578. Your friend I. R. A briefe Apologie to the displaying of the Familie IT doth appeare by reading of these discourses that in the familie there are some who to defende their author and his doctrine haue vsed some diligence what clamors they haue vttered against me doth appeare how often they haue charged me with falcifying their Authors sayinges is manifeste howe they doe discredite such testimonie as is produced against H. N. of such as knew the man longe and were his familiers is shewed What vntruethes what slaunderous speaches what raylinge wordes what caueling what wrangling which doeth bewray the familie of what spirite they are and with what spirite they are guided Many friuolous matters I haue not touched as not worth aunswere and many things are but slenderly handled as the nature of a priuate letter which requireth briefenes will permit Of all whiche falsefying and peruerting of their author only they shew one place wherin I collect that H. N. speaketh against the Church which he tearmeth a whore which they affirme is spoken againste the wicked nature of man But whither of vs more truly haue shewed the true sence of the wordes iudge I pray thée Howe they tearme vs frée ones libertines howe they call the doctrine of predestination licencious how they impunge the confidence we haue in Christes death calling it our bragge how they affirme the Lawe possible to be kept and many other such matters doth manifestly by reding these letters appeare Wherby the godly Christian may as time occasion shal serue hauing conference w any in the family sée in what matters these men are captiued so to indeuour to heale y sore now the wound is opened And where as I protested in my preface that I haue dealt truely and faithfully not maliciously and corruptly as I am accused For further proofe hereof I will briefely declare my euidence that the worlde may sée the exclamations they make are friuolous cauilles Touching the storie of Dauid George â–ª it is published by the vniuersitie of Basill in print out of which I haue collected the story truely For H. N. as before I haue shewed the testimony of his neighbours I haue to shewe being a liue and of honest credite in the Duch Church For their doings in Munster I haue shewed my opinion and the reasons that moued me so to thinke Also the articles which they published what coherence agréement they haue with the Family and how the Anabaptistes hold none of the same Althogh I know that Martin Luther Iohn Sleydan and others do call them generally Anabaptists I haue declared the reasons that moued me to thinke the contrary Let euery man credite these things as God shall moue only I cleare my selfe that of malice I haue done herein nothing The other matters are produced 〈…〉 the bookes of H. N. and gathered b◠〈…〉 ference with the family Now tou 〈…〉 〈…〉 the confession which I say two 〈…〉 〈…〉 Familie made before a worshipful Iustice of peace they deny that they were of their Familie but this is certaine the parties are liuing and followers of one Allyne of Woneherst a great companion of Christopher Vittells which Allin died soudenly by the high way going to Farnam to be examined before y bishop of winchester Thus haue I briefly touched the stories which the familie doe discredit Nowe if I mighte vtter my simple coniecture touching the saide Familie with out offence For as much as their beginning was in Englang about the latter end of Quéene Maries rainge when many of our brethren were entred into that gulfe of fréewill teaching that common grace reserued in Adam was appropriate to vs also and likewise certeine Arrians with Pellagians ioyning together found an author for their purpose vnder a newe deuised name of Familie of Loue. What do they teach but the old 〈…〉 ry leuin of such heretiques as were long agoe knowne and condemned and in déede take from them the weapons of the foresayd heretikes and you shall finde them vnarmed and naked and yet vnder a newe visor they woulde not bee noted as any touched with their doctrine but that they are newe matters broched by H. N. onely and not knowen in the worlde vntill now Surely the papistes do not magnifie their pope as the Family do H. N. whose bookes and doctrine may not be discredited neither can he erre For by no meanes can they be brought to acknowledge that H. N. may erre Therfore this newe Pope deludeth the pore Family with his darke spéeches and ranging stile without conclusion wher in they imagine that very diuinely and with such maiestie their authou 〈…〉 written that we simple ones 〈…〉 vnderstand and no mauell for su 〈…〉 doubte he vnderstandeth not him 〈…〉 For if a man will followe his qu 〈…〉 on s of Scriptures whiche hee 〈…〉 downe so thick and so close in the 〈…〉 giue of his bookes and epistles a 〈…〉 meanly excercised in the holy scrip 〈…〉 may well perceiue how farre from the purpose of the holy ghost H. N. hath applied them The Lord of mercie consolatioÌ„ giue theÌ„ the true vnderstanding of thy holy word let not sathan leade the simple shéep out of the waies of the Lorde our god but giue thy people O lord the wit of serpeÌ„ts to beware of sathaÌ„s sutilties who enuying the prosperity of thy gospell setteth himselfe against the same by raysing vp olde sectes vnder newe cloaks so that thy people being preserued vnder thy defence may euermore extol and magnifie thy glorious name and reioyce ouer the conuersion of our brethreÌ„ that they being brought home again into thy folde we may all praise thy â—â—orious name and with one voyce aâ—â—â—inde may cry Veni domine Iesu 〈◊〉 Amen I. R. Matth. 28. Rom. â— â–ª Acts. 9. Actes 10. â— Pee 3. Gene. 4. 6. 7. 8. 9 19. Exod. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14 1â— 20. 32. Num. â—2 Iosu. 1 â— 6 7. 10. Iudith 1 â–ª 5 7. 1â— 1. Reg. 4. 5. 17. 31. 3. Reg. 18. 22. 4. Reg. 1. 2. 17. Psal 1. Rom. 1. Ezech. 37. Dani. 5 3. D. Cooper Cron. Image of both chur ches â—usebius Gesuerus The dung of tâ—eâ—â—d ingâ—dâ—eâ—h the mistle Matâ—â—â—lus Raâ—tholomens Ortuâ—â—anitatis Proph. cap â— diuis 5. Esai 53. Rom. 4. Iohn 3. 16. Rom. 7. Rom. 3. Psal. 14. Actes 4. Mat. 18. By baptisme he mea â–ª neth not the sacrament of Baptisme * which is in him Proph. cap 1. diui 2. Cap. codâ— diui 5. Cap. 3. diuisi 2. Diui. 3. Cap. 13. diui 8. Cap. 19. diui 3 â–ª Diui. 11. Exhort 1. cap â–ª 13. diuisi 11. Ibi. di 12. Exhor 1. cap. 15. di 26. fol. 40 Proph. cap 11. fol. 27. Proph. cap. 13. fol. 27. Exhor cap 11. fol. 44 Dia. cap. 7 fol. 45. Exhort fol 43. cap. 16. Aba 1. a Acts. 13. f Scripture euil applied The opinioÌ„ of the Familie of Loue concerning predestination Rom. 6. a. b. c. c Ephc. 4. â— Collos. 2. b 2. Timo. 2 c. d. Gall. 3. d Iohn a Prou. 14 a b Prou. 19. a c 3. Reg. 20. b. d 1. Reg. 17. f. e 2. Tim. 2. d f Iam. 3. c. g Prou. 29. â— h Gala. 6. â— i Rom. 12. d. k Matt. 11. d l 1. Pet. 2. d. m Matt. 5. â— n Luke 6. c o Matt. 7. b. p Gala. 5. c. q Gala. 6. a. Ephes. 4. a. Thess. 5. b. r Rom. 15. a. s Iam. 5. d. t Prou. 14. â— u Matt. 7. c. x Luke 11. c y Iohn 14. b z Rom. 2. b. a Iames. 1. d b Apo. 22. d c Eccle. 12. â— d Num. 11. g e Psal. 19. b. f Psal. 69. a. g Psa. 113. b h Psal. 116. b i Psal. 119. c k Eccle. 9. d. l Iob. 24. c. m Zach. 9. b n Zach. 11. c. o Eccl. 30. d p Eccl. 40. â— q Apo. 21. c r Matt. 7. â— â–ª s Matt. 25. â— t Prou. â—7 c Prophesie 11. fol. 27. Sect. 1 Sect. 2. Sect. 6. â—â—printed at London by Henrie Middleton for George Byshop
our simple people out of the plame wayes of the Lorde our God and hath put so many toyes of this authour H. N. into their heades that I feare me they will not easily be remoued What trauell he hath taken howe he hath trudged from countrie to countrie and howe he will not once moue his speach if any learned or godly persons that hath any true knowledge of the worde be present is very wel known but among the simple he is péerelesse and in déede the oldest Elder of our English Familie amongst whome he hath his maintenance His wife is resident in London with whom as is supposed he hath not bene these two-yeares In corners doth this man créepe and dare not shewe his head nor maintaine that doctrine which he hath taught but certaine of his pupils haue béene imprisoned who in the end haue subscribed against thâ— doctrine of H. N. which Vittel doth teach Euerie doctrin whiche is true dare abide the light but the doctrin of H. N is kept in corners dare not abide the light a certeine Argument that it is a counterfet doctrine For no one man dare once open his mouth or put penne to paper to defende their Author in England but amongst the simple whose capacitie is like vnto waxe which will easily receiue euerie seale or print among such will he sound his trumpe He saith the last trumpe shall blowe by which he vnderstandeth the last doctrine which shal be published vpon earth â–ª which is as he saith this doctrine of H. N. How he miserably doeth expound the holie scripture vnto the simple people in corners my heart doth lament how he driueth the true sense of the holie Ghost into allegories it pitieth me to heare and other wise to interpret the holie scripture is to sticke in the letter as he vntruly affirmeth But woe be vnto those simple people which doe giue eare vnto such false teachers they can not with the Lorde our God pleade simplicitie and ignorance by no meanes can excuse them If the blinde leade the blinde they both fall into the ditche The greatest gréefe that I conceiue against y Nouices of y Family is that some of them haue béene prosessours of Christ Iesus Gospel according to the brightnesse thereof which by his good will and pleasure he hath reuealed in this latter age most plentiously and now by the doctrine of this Vittell are declined so farre that the true sense of the Gospel they despise and followe the baine and fantasticall humor of Vittels allegories a man vtterly vnlearned more fitte to be a scholler in Christes schoole then an Illuminat Elder in the Familie and so a teacher He that neuer learned Christe Iesus truely â–ª howe caÌ„ he teach Christ Iesus to others And in déede if he taught Christe Iesus he were to be borne withall but that is not the marke they shoote at To set vp H. N. as a Prophet to aduance his preceptes to credite his spéeche to beléeue that he is Godded with God and cannot erre is their whole indeâ—our But amongst the rest in déede they insinuate a good life which they pretende to followe which is as the visard and cloake to hide al the rest of their grosse and absurde doctrine and the hooke and baite whereby the simple are altogether deceiued And this is the subtiltie of Sathan who otherwise could not preuaile with such bewitched doctrine except it were shadowed vnder the cloake of outward holinesse For there is no sound argument a good life is all that is required for vs to do with this the Familie doe séeme to presse Gods children often in conference For if y will serue to saluation I sée not how the Iewe or Turke can be excluded whose workes outwardly if they be viewed shall condemne vs. Howe close vnto the letter of the lawe doeth the Iewe sticke How willingly doe they abide as vagrant and banished men in euerie countrie How pitifully doe they reléeue their brethren whiche want so that none is found to want that which another is not ready to supply which are notes markes of charitie or loue and truely in my opinion we come not néere the Iewe in this point But I pray you what doeth all this auaile without a true and a righte fayth in Christ Iesus the sonne of God The Turke likewise is a great diligeÌ„t obseruer of his Alcaron a great faster or absteiner a great giuer of almes diligent in prayer seuere in kéeping his worde and promise verie charie in kéeping his Sabbathes verie obedient to Princes and Magistrates and to speak truth in many outward vertues doth farre excell vs Christians to our shame it may be spoken but what doth all this auayle For so much as they blaspheme Christ the sonne of God and denie his Godhed and resurrection they haue no part nor fellowship with vs of the promise of God touching Christ our Lord neither are partakers of his mercie which through Christe we féele in our heartes to our great consolation comfort Without faith it is vnpossible to please God. Therefore aright faith in Christe our Lord is cheefely to be required and sought after and then our workes will of necessitie follow For it is the proper fruite of that excellent trée a true faith can neuer be without his works which sticke so close together that they are inseparable A faithfull man can neuer be without good-workes no more then fire can be without heate and yet a faithful man is not without sinne as H. N. doth auouche of his regenerate man We haue many examples to proue that a faithfull man or a regenerat man doth sinne often and to vse the wordes of the Prophet Dauid Septies in die cadit iustus seuen times a day doth the righteous fal This caÌ„not be vnderstood but of a faithfull and regenerat man Dauid was regenerate when he fell into whoredome and murther Peter was regenerat wheÌ„ he denied with cursing Christ our lord Paule was regenerate when he solemnly pronounced those wordes Christe Iesus came into the world to saue sinners of the which number I am the greatest And I am persuaded that we are neuer so néere vnto God our Lorde as when we féele sinne moste heauie God calleth not such as be emptie or féele not the loade of sinne but Come vnto mee all ye that are loaden with sinne I wil refresh you I speake not of the reprobate who in déede féele in this life a hell in their conscience and do dispaire but GODS children do féele themselues wounded with sinne euen to death but by grace giuen from aboue they doe apply that souereigne salue that wholsome medicine Christe Iesus whose passion hath purchased whose bloud hath cleansed whose death hath cured all our diseases and maladies This comfort doth H. N. take away from his Family and placeth in stéed thereof his owne preceptes without comfort to a troubled minde For his doctrine is That wee must growe vp vnto the manly oldnesse
and inherite the peace He threateneth the ministers of God whome he calleth Caynish persecuters and murtherers that they haue falsely iudged his Family He commandeth them to cease from iudging God his matters saying they vnderstand it not He pronounceth the heauie curses of the lawe against them if they repent noâ— Last of all he telleth that the glorious Lordlinesse of GOD shall in him be manifested declared and fulfilled If H. N. do not shew him selfe naked bare in this his pride I report me to the indifferent view of the Family especially such as are not entred into that gulfe that no truth can be taught by any other then by H. N. and his Elders whether these spéeches procéede from the spirite of God or from the spirite of pride and presumtion Let them indifferently iudge and espie the deceipt where it lurketh namely to discredite all the children of God which teach the Gospel of Christe Iesus and to plant his doctrine and teaching in stead thereof and in déede it is the marke he shooteth at but I hope in vain to al y be Gods children What is this but to take away our comfort in Christes death and promises and to be deceiued with the subtilties of a seduced and erronious spirite and to discredite the Gospel that we might depend vppon H. N. and his doctrine O subtile Satan if thou couldest bring this to passe which thou goest about in thy members then haddest thou thy desire to set vp thy selfe and tread downe the bloud and death of the Lambe of God which hath taken away the sinnes of the worlde But our God hath promised to kéepe vs his children euen as the apple of his eye For as a Father hath compassion on his children so hath the Lord compassion on them that feare him Psalme 103. ver 13. So that Almightie GOD doeth prouide for his childreÌ„s safty from such poisoned infection and suffereth others that willingly will wander out of the plaine wayes of Christ which the Scriptures of God doe point vnto them Of all the errours that euer the diuell did sowe to disturbe the Church of Christ none is more subtile then this y no trueth can be taught by any other then by H. N. and his Illuminate Elders it is false seducing deceiuing what any other do teache Alas why should mortal man be thus lifted vp and take vpon him Christ his office calling for this prerogatiue onely hath Christ Iesus and none other to teache all truth for it is one of his speciall titles I am trueth Whither doth H. N. thrust himselfe by this proud challenge y al truth is only taught by him and his and caÌ„ not be taught by any other sure into Christ his seat office but with Lucifer the Prince of pride he shal be thrown down headlong all such as in their puffed mindes doe exalte themselues aboue their state and condition For of all vice and sinne whiche man doth commit none is more odious in God his sight then pride especially the pride of the minde in the highest degrée as this is to place a vile man in Christ Iesus his office and calling Into suche errours doe they runne whiche content not them selues with the manifest and plaine testimonies of God to vs reuealed in his worde but curiously séeke for nouelties at the hands of mortall men yea vile men and of the worst condition and yet so close they sticke vnto this heresie by the persuasion aforesaide that no trueth can be taught but by H. N. that I feare me the disease is incurable â–ª except the Lord in mercie open their eyes that they may â—spie at the last into what miserable and vile errours and heresies they are snared which they shall neuer doe so long as they holde that principle aforesaide Yet we of the Lordes housholde will not let to do our dueties to admonishe you and shew you the greatnesse and daunger of your backslydinges in charitable manner And although this simple admonition will little preuaile to stirr vp your minds to acknowledge with vs the trueth of Christ Iesus his Gospell yet knowe this vndoubtedly that almighty God hath in his Church men of zealous minds that will not sée Christes glorie so defaced and his Gospel so despised but will in learned manner write against your Family and are able to declare your errours whiche my vnlearned head is not able to bring to passe Although thys will not moue your mindes yet my conscience is quieted in that I haue done my best for your conuersion and discharged my duetie which I owe vnto the Churche of Christ as a member thereof to open and detecte your leaders and teachers which abuse your simplicitie without measure and instruct you that conference is not good that you may professe the doctrin of Henrie Nicholas inwardly and be subiect to the doctrine of the Gospell outwardly whiche in plaine spéech is to dissemble with GOD. For you are obedient to such doctrine as is taught you communicate with vs in Christes sacramentes you heare our teachers expound the scriptures and yet you credite and beléeue onely H. N. and his doctrine taught by Vittell Is not this plaine hypocrisie will God be thus mocked If God be God followe him If Baal be he follow him In Gods trueth we must be of a single minde without halting hypocrites and dissemblers he vtterly abhorreth If Christes Gospell be a trueth as the diuels were driuen to confesse then assuredly H. N. by the same doctrine is manifested to be a lyer and hath not the spirite of God but the spirite of pride in a boasting minde Lift vp your heades and sée in time vnto your health and saluation searche the scripture more diligently and leaue the riddles of H. N. and you shal perceiue more contrariâ—tie in their teaching then I haue expressed you shal rest in the coÌ„fortable promises of Christ our Lord and as for H. N. and his promises what haue we to doe with them let them with their Authour perish in obliuion and be deceiued no more therwith then shall ye féele how swéete the Lorde is and what comfort we haue in Christ Iesus which none can expresse but such as taste thereof féele it working in them selues to immortalitie which comfort is not found in the writinges of any mortall man Knowe this for certaine Lex Domini immaculata conuertens animas The Lawe of the Lorde is a perfect Lawe and conuerteth soules â–ª The lawes preceptes and writings of men are all vnperfecte Why doe ye cleaue vnto H. N. and his Bookes and leaue this perfect lawe of righteousnes which leadeth to life euerlasting If this warning will not serue I shal sorrowe vntil God open your eyes that ye may sée your gréeâ—ous reuolte and into what grinnes and snares of the diuell you are wittingly ledde but my prayer shall not be wanting for you to desire the Lord in mercie for his Christes sake that he will at the last
mollifie your stonie heartes and renewe a right spirite within euerie one of you that your conuersion may be to Gods glorie and the reioysing of his Churche If it please you to reade these simple instructions which I haue written for your sake hurt thereby you can not haue if any good happen and that the Lord doe hereby open your eyes to beholde your errour giue glorie to the Lord our GOD whose mercie is ouer all his creatures and imagine as trueth is that I haue not so contumeliosly vsed your Authour H. N. as he hath bitterly dealt with vs in iudgeing the Church of Christ and all others that are not of his Family I will vse his owne spéeche In the first exhortation Chapter 7. 1 All such as beleue not the Loue nor are baptised in the name of the Father it is not meete to account suche vnbeleeuers and vnbaptised ones for Christians at whose handes we should looke to finde any word of trueth Capitulo eodem 2 The day of the Lorde and righteous iudgement of God shall burne in wrath and furie ouer all vngoldly which haue despised the Loue and her seruice and shal cōsume them as a fire to euerlasting condemnation in the fire of hell which is prepared for the diuell and his angels Article 10. 3 We confesse that no man shall obteine grace nor forgiuenesse of sinnes at Gods handes without the same commonaltie of holy ones in the Loue. In the sixt Chapter 4 But seeing we can not perceiue or finde the true beleefe of Christe among any people vpon earth that walke without the commonaltie of the loue but the same is manifested vnto the holy ones of GOD in the commonaltie of the Loue nor can bee witnessed by any other people or nation but onely the commonaltie of the holy ones in the Loue. In the prophesie Chap. 18. verse 38. 5 Ye shall through the requiring of the gratious word in the seruice of loue become incorporated to the louely nature of God. 1 Here I haue repeated certeine sentences taken out of H. N. whereby first is shewed that none can haue the truth which beléeue not in the loue y is whiche beléeue not as they do nor are baptised in the name of the father which they take not to be y sacrament of baptisme but a mysterie excéeding my capacity to vtter of incorporating vs into God. 2 Thē such as despise the Loue her seruice shal be consumed with fire euer lasting that is their teaching and seruice 3 No man can obteine grace nor forgiuenes except they ioyne with their commonaltie 4 No people vppon earth can truely beléeue in Christ but their Family and such as walke with them 5 Last of all they shall become incorporated to the nature of God through their seruice of Loue. Here ye may sée the summe of that godly wisdome that is in your Author his déepe diuinitie And surely in my minde it requireth no large discourse to confute the same the spéeche of it selfe doeth sufficiently bewray the minde of their Authour the effect whereof is he and his Family haue onely the trueth and all the world else are deceiued But I may boldly say and more truely that no people in the world that haue any religion but they hearing H. N. and his doctrine will iudge him to be a false Prophet a vain boaster and a deceiuer of suche as put any confidence in him whose doctrine is so absurde senslesse without comfort that none but idiotes or men without true religion will imbrace the same And although many simple people doe imbrace this vaine way by the subtiltie of Christopher Vittel and others yet I haue no doubt but the Lorde in mercie will beholde their simplicitie and giue vnto them a right spirite to discerne trueth from falshod If I were disposed to lay abroade euerie odious matter and euery Tragedie that I haue intelligence of in the Family I should but infert the eares of Gods children with much vile matter which I had rather burie in silence then by naming the persons to make them abhorred of the multitude I think it conuenient therefore to couer their turpitude rather then by manifesting the same to publishe such odious stuffe as would euen defile my pen to write Syr William Moore a woorthy Iustice in Surrey had the examination of one or two of the Familye who vttered much matter which I am loth to write I do gather it vpon this grounde that forsomuch as their Illuminat Elders do not sinne and what so euer they commit it cannot be sinne therfore if they fall into anye acte be it neuer so vngodly it can not be counted sinne as it procéedeth from them because they are Deified And what acte so euer they do it can not be sinne no more then the Prophete Osees whiche was commaunded to take a Harlot to his wife and to beget children in fornication and he did so Uppon such false and vaine persuasions what vile doctrine doeth followe the verie simple may perceiue I doe absteine therefore from further declaring or dylating of any such matter as this is least I should euen infecte the ayre therewith And if any of the Family doe suppose that I write maliciously without proofe let them signifie their minds vnto me and I shall satisfie them priuately of all such matter as I haue intelligence with the processe wholy and particularly And if they denie that Henrie Nicholas doeth boaste himselfe to haue the Spirite of GOD as I haue affirmed and not by participation but Godded with God or incorporated into GOD as he vseth to speake for my discharge I will let H. N. tell how and in what manner he hath it that you the Family and all other may perceiue what he is rightly His wordes be these The first Chapter of the prophesie the 2. diuision The Lord God of heauen moued me in his minde or spirit his power compassed me with a rushing noyse and the glorie of the same God became greate in my spirite of his loue in such wise that the clearenesse of God wholy inuironed me and shined round about me wherethorough the sight of mine eyes became clearer then the christall and mine vnderstanding more brighter then the Sunne He doeth not let to vtter vnto the Familie how mightely and gloriously the God of heauen is in him so that his sight and vnderstanding became clearer then the christall or the sunne whiche if it be true then it is méete that all generations of the earth submit themselues therevnto as he saith in his dialogue And surely this his boasting doeth darken the glorie of Christe Iesus with his Family excéedingly And this is beléeued credited among them the more pity and the simple are deluded and mocked with such vaine boasting spirites and it increaseth daily in the countrey and créepeth as a canker euery where through the smooth speach of their Elders But how close they kéep them selues and will not
sinners c. but repent least that chaunce to you that came vpon them And againe looke I pray you howe you stumble in your owne tale You would prooue that none hath receiued their ministerie from the mouth of God you'speake of Paule did not Christ speake to him after his ascention from heauen and I pray you tell mee what ministration that euer was true came froÌ„ other then Gods owne mouth you are taught to flee such boasters like enough for so Satan hath alwayes taught his children And as concerning the badge whereby you woulde knowe them is as you set downe by publique declaration which is vtterly false For Moyses onely shewed his ministration to the Israelites Abraham to his children Noc to his familie Lott to his housholde and all the Prophets to Gods peculier children the Apostles in priuate houses c. And nowe to be short the disciples of Christe â–ª or his worde which are taught by the doctrine of Christ our sauiour out of the mouth of H. N. do confesse freely before all men the ground of their faith and religion and though you will not credit it yet it doth not followe that it is not so except this reason as God forbid should alwayes holde like as it hath holden of late Because men say I am a theefe therefore no proofe of lawe the testimonie of my neyghbours with whome I liue nor mine owne words against so simple an alligation must be permitted but all is vntrue nowe except it be to proue your false words slaunderous brutes trewe Here we finde will and vniustice on your parte to haue more rule then equitie or good reason And nowe therefore master Rogers will I euen out of loue to an admonition of you to your preseruation display vnto you a little of the difference betwixt the doctrine of H. N. yours He exhorteth according to the doctrine of Iesus Christ mentioned in the Scriptures to true repentâ—unce godly loue an vpright faith and dutifull obedience c. euen like as many of you at this day in words do but yet he with more power for he manifesteth according to the trueth that none among all the children of men shal be found meete in the sight of the Lord to beare the names of Christians boast they neuer so much of their Christianitie freedome or iustification by Christe in their vnregenerated life as they wil which hath not submitted them selues in true repentance vnder the obedience of Gods holie lawe which is administred vnto them in the seruice of Loue for to become first disciples of the same worde to a reformation of their owne wayes and not to go presently foorth with the knowledge and teach others as you do before they be come taught and reformed thereby neyther yet to iudge others therwith as you now do before they be come first iudged thereby which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the father And then being so taught vnto Iesus Christ in the holie lawe to take vp in the beleefe their crosse daily on them with Christ against the sinne which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the Sonne vntill that Christe which is the way the trueth and the life it selfe haue gotten a liuing shape or fourme in them by faith and that they through the Spirite of loue or Christ be raised vp againe in a newe life which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the holy Ghost wherevnto all the Familie of Loue or of God at this day are louingly called and doe meane by Gods assistance most earnestly to endeuour themselues but yet with much more quietnesse mought they haue rest by such enimies to all godlynesse as you are Although you be vnaquainted with this doctrine â–ª or rather true baptisme here following yet would wee not therefore haue you belye vs according to your accustomed manner and saye that we deny the holy sacrament therof And although this infallible Christian doctrine of Loue Faith Obedience and Life which is taught by H. N. in the seruice of Loue accordeth with all Scriptures remaineth yet vnknowen much lesse practised amongst you free ones or Lybertines and this true repentance which is taught vnder the obedience of the holy lawe of God the Father this true crosse of Iesus Christ which is taught vnder the obedience of the beleefe of God the Sonne and this true resurrection or newenesse of life which is taught vnder the obedience of the loue of God the holie Ghoste is nowe blasphemed despised and resisted as an vnneedefull thing of you yet is the same neuerthelesse by the Familie of Loue or of God found to be the olde and true way corespondent with all the doctrine of the Apostles of Iesus Christ and therefore so needefull that without it looke ouer the Scriptures againe so mâ—ny as be wise among you there shall no man finde mercie with God or els through Iesus Christ become saued Then Alas master Rogers â–ª alas what haue you done I hope nothing yet but out of ignorance I would then you woulde looke better into the matter for if H. N. be a minister of the Lord then you haue much ouershot your selfe I leaue Stephan Bateman to the righteous iudgement of the Lord as one in whome there is small hope of any goodnesse Wherefore the Lorde God for his Christes sake graunt you eyes of vnderstanding and a repentant heart to aske forgiuenesse for so maliciously blaspheming Gods loue and trueth extended towardes vs out of mercie vndeserued and to aske mercie for deprauing such a gratious worke of God published forth nowe in the last time to all mens preseruation that desire to walke â–ª therein whereof we shal be right glad and then shal you be deliuered from that lying spirite which nowe seeketh like as in times past with moste horrible slaunders lyes to deface all good all such as indeuour themselues therevnto So shal it come to passe to Gods glorie your saluation our comfort Amen Your vnknowen friend The aunswere of I. R. to â–ª the letter of the Familie I Receiued a letter from you as from an vnknoweÌ„ friend conteining matter inuectiue against my booke as also verie many contumelious slaunderous speaches touching my honestie both which to aunswere you shall finde me readie and willing although not with like speach of disdaine sauouring of the spirite of enuie and not of loue To all which speach touching my honestie this shall serue for answere the Lord deale so and so betwéene vs as you vniustly charge me with waightes measures wares c but the contents of my booke disquieteth your moode the which you shal finde more large in aunswering 1 The first matter you tell me that no honest man woulde assay to defende so vnhonest attempts to defend my honestie I will not in this place my protestation shall serue but if the cause be dishonest then I am worthy great reprehension but you mistake me vtterly that I reprehend
the loue of God and Christ farre be that from me it is selfe loue that I discommende in your author and in you all of this family For the loue of God is manifested to vs by Christ our Lorde which is our onely comfort So God loued the worlde c. You loue your authour so wel that this loue of God little appeareth 2 Could any man you say rew the prosperitie of the householde of God except he were of the diuell no verelye If you were of Christs householde we as fellowes woulde imbrace you but straungers from that household ye are and as straungers lurke in corners 3 My foundation you say is against H. N. whom I neuer knewe nor vnderstode off True it is touching his person but by his doctrine he is not vnknowne to me whose bookes I haue to shewe 4 You say as Christ in the reuelation is shadowed by two caracters A. and O. so none can knowe his name except he ouercome in the spirite therefore we must be scilent hereafter for H. N. is not the signification of any mans name This is a great mistery in déede for if H. N. be not a man then haue I vtterly mistaken my selfe but sure the bookes were not written by Angels man was the minister and the man that write them his name is Henrye Nicholas the same mans life I haue truely set downe not hearesayes but the trueth not of enimies but of his neighbours familiers not one man but many they will not onely speake the trueth but are ready vppon their othes to testifie the same 5 Where you iudge that you are suer they are not of the Church of Christ it is very rash Iudgement I coulde testifie of their honest life and manners but it shal be here impertinent You make your comparisons vnequall because Christ by two letters did testifie his maiestie power as god will you admit H. N. by like reason to vse two letters significant In déede I haue â—en aunswered y H. N. signifieth Homo nouus but such follyes will not serue you must of necessitie acknowledge H. N. to be a man as one of our Family at Farnam before the Bishop of Winchester did acknowledge confes him that is to say H. N. not only to be a maÌ„ but also a sinner least you shuld burden me with vntruth as you haue done I will giue you his name R. W. 6 You put me in minde of my impudent dealing in that I haue saide that none of your family dare set forth your doctrine in principles that all men may sée wherein you and we differ you referre me to a little booke called The confession of the Family which booke I haue read but that is very plausible nothing differing from vs If you helde no worse pointes then that booke doth vtter suerly I would come before you al acknowledg my fault and craue pardon but this is a méere mockery of the people to set down your faith common with vs and nothing contrary to vs where as your authour in sundrie places tearmeth vs a diuellish Sinagogue or schoolâ— and that we are not the Church but a harloâ—t If you and we professe one Christ one baptisme one faith why are we seuered in communion but it is a worlde to sée your doings in this matter When any of your family are conueÌ„ted before any officer in Christes Church then you subscribe to any forme you recant in your owne churches you promise neuer to professe H. N. nor his doctrine and yet still after so sollemne protestations you reteine your secrete doctrine which in fewe wordes is not plaine dealing If your doctrine be a trueth why doe you still deny it if the power of God hath shone through H. N. so mightely why doe you not in principles drawe your doctrine that the people of God may sée vppon what groundes and stayes you haue seuered your selfe from vs but you vse the pollicy of the cuttle a fish whose property is to trouble the water that she may not be séene so with your darke speaches misteries you would cast a myst that no man should sée your meaning and then stande vppon your tiptoes and say that your sentences haue such profounde maiestie that our simple grosse capacities cannot comprehend the same Plaine dealing is euer best If we be in error shewe it to vs in what points and for my owne part I wil if you can conuince me by the testimonies of holy scripture yeald vnto you or any 7 What conference I haue had with your family dyuers of your family can tell you 8 You say my disorderly dealing shall appeare in the aunswere to my booke which for my part I shal long looke for for hitherto you haue not set down any one place where in I haue mistaken your author In déede I tooke not vpon me to write against any one booke but to display what absurdities I finde in your authors Doctrine you shall finde that performid or it be long by Maister Knewstubs who hath written a book to confute your Euangelium Regni You apply this text of holy scripture very fondly Christ saith my kingdome is not of this world 9 You aske howe the trueth can be taught where his kingdome is not If you meane by this worde kingdome power maiestie dominion then it is shewed in y world manifested to hys Church But by kingdome the Euangelist doth vnderstande as I take it an outwarde shewe of principalitie which the Iewes looked for to be in their deliuerer or Messias which he denied to be in him which may better appeare in that which followeth For then would my ministers surely fight for me 11. I knowe that Christ chiefly reigneth in his Churche but who are the Church is the question Euery heresie seeketh to shadowe it selfe with the title of the Church but by the life of Gods holy worde they haue béen found heretikes and seducers and yet I neuer hearde of any errour but drewe their doctrine into principles and durst disspute with any in their opinions except one Basilides whiche Eusebius in his 4. booke Chap. 7. maketh mention of who feining sundrie titles of vnknown names of Prophetes to amaze their hearers depending vpon Reuelations and visions amongest other thinges taught this that in time of persecution their faith with periury might bee denied saying Iura periura fideÌ„ prodere noli Now surely if I might without offence compare your dealings with Basilides it shoulde be founde little differing 12 You say that the same doctrine which the Martyrs taught in the primitiue Church H. N. teacheth nowe but wee plainely denie that euer any taught a perfection to bee atteyned vnto in this life to liue not daily committing sinne or that our battell is ended when we be re generat or that any H. N. hath receiued such power of teaching extraordinarie as you imagine For we denie that he hath the spirite of god and say that he teacheth
N. nor his doctrine and yet haue turned to the same againe we do not denye but that some haue beene constrained so to doe and that it is no plaine dealing And I pray you tel mee hath the like matter euer beene heard of ere this tune that simple men who can scarcely reade Englishe because they haue read a booke or heard it read should be compelled to yelde an accompt of the spirite of the author that wrote the same I thinke not except you will allowe by like reason that euery simple man that heareth a doctor preache should be compelled to deliuer forth all his diuinitie or els to be committed to straight prison Learned men dispute with the learned it hath euer yet suffised amongst Gods ministers a simple person to yelde an accompt of his beleefe simply c. were not thinke you playner dealing better you say that wee vse the propertie of the Cuttell c. Do you not remember that the fleshly minded Iewes could not see their Sauiour when he was dayly amongst them yet they boasted verie stoutly of their sight and would not in any case confesse their blindnesse Wee stand not vpon our tiptoes as you say but we dayly acknowlege our blindnesse and waite vpon the Lord for our sight Wee say not that you are in errour but wee say that we haue through that sinfull nature of the fleshe that earthly lying being which hath wrought that disobedience in Adam where through we are all fallen beene bewrapped in all ignorance and blindnesse and for that cause are not ashamed to confesse our errour Wee will not go about to conuince you by the testimonies of the holy Scriptures for that lyeth not in our power neither were wee so dealt withall It is the Lorde by his grace that hath conuinced vs and brought vs vnder his crosse ▪ if he also conuince you then are ye rightly conuinced and so the praise thereof appertayneth onely vnto him And whereas you desire to knowe wherein you haue mistaken the author to that we saye that you haue not set downe any whole sentence but patched peeced the same without all order contrarie to your promise For you say you will not adde nor diminish but set downe the authors wordes worde for worde which you haue done euen as one may take the tenne commaundements and leaue out some wordes thereby say that God commaunded such things as for example Thou shalt haue none other Gods but mee Thou shalt not steale Thou shalt not committ adulterie c. Leaue out none not and then what is the commaundement If this be good dealing then you haue dealt well let all men iudge You say moreouer you tooke not vppon you to write against any one booke but to display the absurdities you found in the auctors doctrine which wee shall fynde perfourmed ere it be long by master Knewstub who as we suppose shall displaye him selfe therein euen like as you haue in your booke displayed your selfe and your adherents You say we apply this text My kingdome is not of this world c. verie fondly we take his kingdome not to be outward but inward vz. peace righteousnesse and ioy in the spirit which things the world is ignorant of you may expound it at your pleasure though we expressed our minde therein in plaine dealing mought it please you so to take it You say moreouer you knowe that Christ raigneth in his Church but who are the church is the question In deede master Rogers you say verie well and nowe giue vs leaue to vse plaine dealing with you least otherwise we mought happe to slaunder or belye you In your book one leafe before your admonitiō to Christopher Vittell these be your owne wordes Howe H. N. iudgeth of vs because wee acknowledge our selues to be of the Church of Christ. For that cause if thou nowe accompt not thy selfe for an whoore but esteemest thy selfe for the faithfull espowsed wife of Christ c. And nowe for as much as we vse not neither are so taught in the seruice of loue to iudge rashly or vnaduisedly of any people to their reproche like as you haue done of vs let vs intreat you to read in the booke called The prophesie of the spirite of loue the tenth Chapter sect 12. 13. 14. and in the 11. 12. Chapters throughout and then see with an vnparciall eye what manner of Churche that it is which he doth there reproue you shall finde it in deede to be that fleshly wicked nature that lying being which spareth not with his earthly knowledge to set it selfe to iudgement and to giue sentence of the godly matters which he calleth a false seede an adulterous generation of the earthly man which hath inhabited the earth with vnrighteousnesse iudged it falsely with her lyes seduced the simple oppressed the little ones murdered the holy ones of God and spylt the innocent bloud on the earth He calles it moreouer a bronde of the venomous Dragon yea of the diuell and of the earthly lying generation which is begotten of the seede of the Serpent and viperous generation which hath alwayes beene a false and a wicked whoore vppon the earth c. which church you nowe do challenge to your selues and acknowledge your selues as members of the same euen like as wee in times past haue also done Which thing so soone as the Lorde let vs see into then fell wee down before the Lorde and shamed not to confesse our faultes before him as that wee had ouerlong taken parte with that whoorishe nature of the earthly fleshly and sinfull being whome wee do nowe by Gods grace vtterly abhorre hoping dailye by the might of Christe Iesus our Lorde to see her filthie nakednesse in vs and in manye disclosed abhorred and reiected for euer more You desire to knowe of vs the difference betwixt you and vs Could any man tell it more plainly then you in your wordes haue here manifested the same Consider aduisedly of it so shall you not neede henceforth to demaunde of vs any further resolution in that point but must of necessitie if you doe well fall downe before the Lorde and crye with vs Peccauimus cum patribus nostris iniuste egimus iniquitatem fecimus You charge vs vniustly with the errour of Basilides as though wee were forswearers of our selues whereas yet notwithstanding there hath neuer beene proued any such matter against any of that companie or in any of all that authors workes which may well suffise to stop your mouth if trueth will serue to aunswer you And yet I remember that Tindall a learned man and writer in his booke of Obedience writeth these wordes Breake not vp into the consciences of men after the example of Antichristes disciples which compell them eyther to forsweare themselues by the Almightie God and by the holie Gospell of his mercifull promises or to testifie against them selues which abhomination our prelates learned of Caypha◠Math. 26.