as do Princes verie great hurt doe accuse those to be euill subiectes which of all other are the most faithfull Did not Abner and other of King Saules Councellers take them selues to be his best subiects and yet who led him from God vnto his destruction but they by stirring him vp to persecute Dauid Did they not accuse Dauid to be a traitour yet who was so faithful and true harted vnto his Lord as he Wise men must not be carried away with a blast of wordes nor with some colour of matter which vngodly men neuer want against the good Philocrhematos I perceiue it is but in vaine to spende the time in talking with such as you which are obstinately wilfullie bent You will be singuler Orthodoxos Obstinacie and wilfulnes can not be but in an vngodly and naughtie matter For a man can not be too stedfast in the truth Let the cause be good and the more stiffe and constant the minde is so much the better If I haue vttered or defend anie falshood let me be conuicted and I will yeeld If I be not conuicted what reason is there that I shoulde be charged with wilfulnes or obstinacie If Iesus Christ and his Apostles be of my side what wickednes is it to say I would be singuler Philodox It were well if yee would all agree teach vs that be of the laiety by your good example for that ought to be in yee And how shal it be expected at our hands to liue in vnitie to do well when those are at discord and variaunce which should instruct and guid vs Can yee exhort vs vnto concorde and your selues at variance Orthodox You speak of that which was neuer seene in this world nor neuer shall For so long as God hath faithfull messengers so long will also the Deuill haue his vngodly instrumentes These can neuer agree the one part seruing god the other liuing viciously And I pray yee how or wherin wold yee haue them to agree Which part shall condescend vnto the other Which part shal yeeld Shall those that holde the truth giue ouer That is abhominable to bee spoken and shall neuer be Will those that are vngodlie yeelde submit them selues vnto the truth No their stomach will not let them though they be conuict in conscience Moreouer this is to be noted that such a man as is not sanctified but delighteth in worldly lustes cannot abide the puritie of the word which doth condemne him Herein the world is iniurious that they crie out for vnitie vnitie blaming alwaies that part which holdeth the truth because they woulde haue them yeelde vnto their affections seeing they cannot abide to forsake their vild lustes Againe a number of yee beeing ouercome of your carnall lustes are glad to make this pretence and excuse We cannot tell what to do The Preachers cannot agree they be all naught what shold we giue heede to follow any thing which they teach these be hellish and brutish speeches Yee must seeke out which hold the truth which call yee vnto true godlines and amendement of life and with them yee must be at vnity The true Preachers are not to exhort men to be at such an vnitie as you imagine But they must teach them to flie the fellowship of the wicked I woulde to God men woulde consider this and tourne vnto him and not like Giants fight against him Philodoxos I do not thinke that anie do fight against God You shoulde not vtter anie such speeche vnlesse yee did know it to be true a man can not fight against God vnlesse hee hate God and I dare not iudge so euill of anie man Orthodoxos You think none fight against God because whomsoeuer a mā fighteth against him he hateth and you dare not iudge so euil of anie man to be so fowlie giuen ouer as to hate God It is grose ignorance in ye which seemeth to be excellent modestie For if you had eies that could discern you should see how horriblie some men doe hate the Lorde God and desperatlie fight against him Moste true it is the wicked men are so blinded by a iust iudgment of God vpon them that they think they loue God or at least that they do not hate him But we maie not iudge according to the sence of flesh bloud but according to the sacred truth of holie scripture by which I wil make the matter plaine vnto yee The blessed Apostle Rom. 8. doth affirme that such as walke after the flesh shall dye He rendreth a reason which is that the wisdom of the flesh is enimity against God And whie is it enimitie against God or whie doth the holy ghost charge it to leaue hatred against him because saith the Apostle It is not subiect to the law of God neither in deede can bee Marke this well for it is euen as a thūderbolt wherby al the wicked are striken down they bear themselues in hand that they loue God they make open brags and vaunts that they be his friendes but you maie learn heere frō the mouth of the Lorde him selfe that whosoeuer are not Subiect to the obedience of his law they bee his enimies and doe hate him Then doth it follow that whosoeuer do fight against his word or anie parte thereof they are his enimies they doe hate him fight against him Then let vs come to the matter Is there anie reasonable man but will confesse that Gods worde doth commaund learned godlie ministers to teach and guid his people Doth not the scripture laie woes and curses vpō those that be contrarie Is it not his holie ordinance that euerie shepheard shall attend vpon the flock of which he hath taken the charge and ouersight Do not those then monstrouslie fight against God and hate him which in sermons in their bookes published abroad do with reasons drawne from the wisedome of the flesh defend non residentes double beneficed men the vnlearned ministery with sundrie abominations The dreadfull vengeance of God doth hang ouer the heads of such men vnlesse they repent in time They doe against their Conscience for they can not but know such things as be euill The loue of the world doth carrie thē vnto it God hath also commaunded that his messengers shall be well intertained that his Church maie be built Do they not then directly fight against him which deface molest them depriuing multitudes of people of the foode of theire soules This is yet a more shamelesse matter that euen such as be old turncoats it is to be feared readie to saie Masse again are great instrumentes Such beeing known athiests are not ashamed to step into the Pulpit to charge the Godlie faithfull messengers of the Lorde to be Atheists rebells traitors I know not what If the cause bee good let not such guiltie persons defend it take such as be not spotted Shall those stand as the champions in the Lords battell which haue imbraced this present worlde and seeke after gaine These fight for their bellie not for the Lord. Those whom the people calleth greedie Dogs could not be more greedie then these for they be neuer satisfied The Lord giue them repentance or else disburden his church of them Philedonos I am sorie there is anie such taske in my house If you will go to your chambers all things are readie the Night is well spent FINIS
A DIALOGVE CONCERNING the strife of our Churche Wherein are aunswered diuers of those vniust accusations wherewith the godly preachers and professors of the Gospell are falsly charged with a briefe declaration of some such monstrous abuses as our Byshops haue not bene ashamed to foster GOD IS MY HELPER GOD IS MY DEFENDER AT LONDON Printed by Robert Walde-graue 1584. To the Christian Reader GEntle reader thou art not ignoraunt that in this our Churche of Englande there hath been a scisme for sundry yeares which of late is growen so strong that vnlesse the Lord looke vpō vs in great mercie it will in short time bring foorth a very lamentable desolation Now it is the part and duetie of euery true-harted Christian to do his best both by heartye prayer and otherwise so far as his calling doth reach to succour ayde and support that side which hath the truth For this consideration haue I bestowed my poore trauell in writing this little dialogue In which I haue as faithfully as I can set downe the greatest accusations and most vsuall crimes that haue any colour which are slaunderouslye cast foorth and laid to the charge of Gods faithfull messengers with a short aunswere to shew the vanitie of the same On the other side I haue lightly touched as it were the heades or fountaines of diuers corruptions maintayned by the contrarye part which are so grosse manifest that he which shall saye he knoweth not of them maye well be suspected for vntruth and he that shall defende them must put on his foreheade of brasse My sute vnto thee gentle reader is no more but this that thou wilt well waigh and iudge vprightly which part follow the steppes of the blessed Apostles and so be the true ministers of Iesus christ I know right well some will bee offended at this kind of dealing and say it is hurtful But vnlesse I would be vnfaithfull to my Lord and master Iesus Christ vndutiful to his poore Church and disloyall to my soueraigne prince whatsoeuer I am bound to do more I can with safe conscience do no lesse then I haue here done Some will say these are but words and who can not easilye make the like pretence for anye matter whatsoeuer I will therefore note some particular causes to shew the truth of my wordes He that will be the faithfull seruaunt of Iesus Christ must stande for the maintenance of the Gospell and not holde his tongue when the course thereof is stayed and hindered But the preachers are so plentifull will some man saye that although here and there a few which will not conforme themselues be put to silēce yet the course of the gospel is not hindered I wold to God a true suruaye were made that first all those which haue faithfully laboured whō they terme Puritans being set aside they would take the veiw and number of such as haue great titles and roomes and yet feed not any flockes of sheepe or lambes and in the next place set those which apply all their great learning to get liuinges and dignities not caring for soules as namely to heape benefice vpon benefice to seeke to bee Archdeacons Deanes and byshops For these seek after the things which are their owne and not the thinges which are Christs these serue not the Lord Iesus but their own belly and though they can speak like angels yet the Church shall not bee blessed by them For they are not sent of God they bee not the ministers of Iesus Christ by whome he will aduance his Gospell If yee can also number those which goe vnder the names of Preachers and doe either so seldome so slenderly and vnskilfully teach that their people are neuer the better And in the last rancke place the vnable men with those of spotted life I warrant yee the remnant wil be Methemispar as the scripture speaketh There shall need no Arithmetrician to take the account Now to the second point When God hath prepared the heauenly Manna and appointed to his Church that she shoulde eate her fill thereof euen to the fatting of her soule to make her liuely and strong and that her Children babes may sucke from her breasts the sincere milk of the word Who is there that hath a minde touched with any care of duety and seruice towardes her that can holde his peace and not complaine in her behalfe when shee is denyed her right in being debarred of this heauenly bread or at the least so stinted and scanted that shee can scarce haue sufficient to preserue life Solomon saith that the righteous man considereth the soule of his beast wheras the bowels of the wicked are cruelty A righteous man can not behold an Oxe or an Horse pining to death for want of foode but that the mournefull voyce of the Dumbe Beaste will strike his heart and mooue compassion and shall not the heart of a righteous man bleede shall not his raines pricke shall it not kindle and burst out as a fire in him shall hee not lament with pittie when he beholdeth the Ladye and mistresse of the worlde the Lambes wife euen the very deare spouse to him that is Lord of Lords depriued of her daylye foode Can anye true Christian man with drye eyes looke vppon the leannesse and palenesse of her face the feeblenesse of her ioyntes and weakenesse of her bodye Her beautie shoulde bee so excellent and her maiestie so great that she should be a terrour to those enemyes which nowe despise and mocke her Let them keepe silence that can all good men will speake and speake againe in her behalfe yea euen against those bishops which doe her this great wronge and seeke to destroy her children with famine The blessed Apostle S. Paule whose care was as tender ouer the weake ones of the Church as the care of any mother towardes the babe that sucketh vppon her brestes 2. Cor. 11. saith Who is offended and I burne not If there be anye sparckle of his spirite in a man how can he but burne beholding at this day so many weak ones to stumble both men and women yong and old in many places which had receiued some taste of the word and began as greene plantes to bud being continually watred by Apollo Nowe following the drought as it were of an whote Summer the siluer dews being restrained frō dropping vpon them and the fountains of liuing waters shut vp do wither away yea many are made to stagger and doubt whether it were a true gospell that was preached vnto them For say they if it were good how should any learned man go about to withhold it or to put those to silence that publish it For the third point is ther any man ignorāt how manifold treasons are practized by the papists euē like greedy bloud-houndes of hell which thirst for the very heart bloud of our souereign Queen what continueth thē still in hope to bring their purpose to passe after so many repulses Is it the goodnes
are good Where God enioineth no obedience there can bee no disobedience by refusing As for example some prince doth command his subiectes to worship Idols or some other thing which God doth forbid them they refuse to do it not of stubbernesse but of conscience towards God will ye say they be disobedient but you sée well inough that this weapon wil not serue and therfore yee are content to cast it down and to retier your selfe into a strong hold as you imagine For who shall iudge of maters whether they be according to gods word say you which part shal we beleeue What are yee a Papist Yee runne into the same holde that they doe when they fight They demand in like sort who shall iudge which part is worthier of credite If wee shall confesse your argument to be good and sound how shall we denie it when it commeth from them bumbasted and set foorth with greater might For when you saye all the wisest and learnedest of Nobility Iudges and bishops haue done it howe shall a fewe inferiour personnes controll them or be wiser then they Wil they alowe that which is not agreeable vnto Gods word Then the Papistes may say when as their religion hath been established by all the wisest Princes Bishops and Counsellers with so general consent of so many ages not of one Realme but assembled out of a great sort of Countries and Prouinces How shall a fewe for the Nobles Iudges Bishoppes and others in a Parliament holden in one kingdome are but a fewe vnto theire multitude controll them If twentie or thirty learned byshops in one Land assembled together can not set foorth or allow any thing but that which is good how shall fowre or fiue hundred choise Fathers out of all countries be ouerseene Oh sir if this were a good reason the Gospell might lye in the dust If it bee good with vs why shoulde it not be good when the Papists doe vse it Especiallye when they haue more right vnto it because theire multitude hath beene farre greater Howe wise you and manye other which vse this argument doe take your selues to be I pray yee did ye not vse it in the daies of Quéene Marie will you refuse to go vnto the masse will you be wiser then the Queene the Counsell all the learned Byshops Doubtles in this point yee are very wise that ye haue layd a foundation that will beare any frame Yée may go through all times and chaunges of religion For whatsoeuer a Parliament doth set vp yee will haue it by and by no further examined Philodoxos The general counsels of the Papists are not like the Parliament neither do ye well to compare them so togeather For they looked to mans inuentions but our Byshops haue regarded only the word of God Orthodoxos Let that be some difference as in deede God bee blessed there is great difference albeit the Popishe Byshops professed to do all by the word Yet neuerthelesse you must proue that thirty or fortie learned Byshops looking only to the word of God can not swerue in any thing from truth before this can follow that no part of their doings may be controwled Philodoxos Ye do not heere mee saye that no part of their doing may be controwled but I say this when so many graue lerned byshops haue decreed it shal it be controwled by a few greene and light heades Can those which are nothing so many nor so learned nor in no respect to be esteemed so much see more then they It is like as if all the iudges in the Lande had agreed vppon a case and an vtter barester or one which hath studied the Lawes but two or three yeares shoulde controule them Orthodoxos Yee liken it as if all the Iudges in the Lande had agreed vpon a Case and then a verye young Studente in the Lawe should take vpon him to controwle them all when a fewe as you say greene heades refuse to doe euerye thing that the Byshoppes conclude vppon I knowe it is a straunge thing and incredible that all the Iudges in the land should misse in a Case and not bee able to sée that which some one of small knoweledge should see but yet yee must knowe that the Case is not altogeather lyke in Heauenlye matters which men can not reache vnto by study wit as they do vnto earthly but wher God doth inwardly lighten teach by his spirit Now God hath not tyed him selfe vnto multitude nor vnto yeares but where it pleaseth him to reueale and therefore one poore man bringing reason and authoritie out of the holy Scriptures is more to be esteemed then tenne thousande great Bishoppes standing vppon their consent without warraunt of the worde The Priestes in the lawe boldened them selues with the like reason to consult to strike Ieremias Ierem. 18. The law say they shall not perish from the Priest and counsell from the wise and the worde from the Prophet In like maner worldly wise men doe securelie blind them selues hanging their faith vpon probabilitie and not searching déeply into the matter Againe yée doe falslye and vntruely in your comparison to liken the one part as it were to al the iudges in the land the other to a yong studēt in the law For set the Papists a side the multitude of learned men against whom you speake are more in number thē al the bishops Deanes Archdeacons and bishops Chaplains in this land For ye must looke vpon the faithfull seruaunts of God in other Lands If yee respect learning there are none in our Land but such as are impudent that wil compare with some of them Philodoxos Why should not we thinke there bee as manye learned men of our lande as in any other Orthodoxos God be blessed there be great lerned men in our land but yet I doubt not but they wil confes that the Lord raised vp some in other Landes whome he made the cheefe and principal Instrumentes to restore his Gospell the fruite of whose labours doth spread so farre that in all Churches they are famous yea there is no one man which is a true minister of Iesus Christ but he hath iust cause to blesse and praise God for them Such was M. Luther M. Caluine M. Beza M. Tremellius and others I know in deede ther bee of our men whom the Church might spare wel ynough for any good they euer did vnto it which will not stick to compare with the best of these to take themselues rather to be their superiours Other men wil so estéem of them also when they haue approoued them selues to bee such faithfull seruauntes of Christ and haue done the like good to the Churche that those other did in the meane time euery wise man will iudge as he findeth Philodoxos I know these whom you name are famous men but what haue they to doe with our church Orthodoxos Haue you got that by the end also surely I cannot tell what
knowledge of God will confesse that the Pope and his Cardinals are the scismatikes and that the other were Gods true seruantes And why He is the Scismatike which doth depart from the trueth and maintaine corruption although it be with neuer so great pretence of peace and quietnesse For shal there be peace against God Shal there be peace against the truth Shall there be peace to the destruction of mens soules and laying wast of the church On the other side shall those bee called Scismatikes which stand for the truth which séek the saluation of mens soules Yée must bring better stuffe vnlesse yee will fight as the Papistes do Philochrematos This comparison which you make is verye vnequal for the state of our Church is not like the state of the Church of Rome We haue the Gospell established and sincerely taught there is Idolatrie and all kinde of false doctrine set foorth and maintained The Pope with his Cardinals and Byshops be the Scismatikes because they maintaine that which is vngodly and goe against the truth And therfore they do lewdly and vniustly charge maister Luther maister Caluine and the rest to be Scismatikes which in deed set foorth the truth And therefore I say still they be Scismatikes which trouble and disturbe the vnitie peace of that Church where the Gospell is purely taught It is you that muste bring better stuffe such as you are do rather conspire with the Papistes to reason as they doe and to fight with such weapons as they doe Orthodoxos Yee doe me wrong in saying that I compare the state of our Church with the Church of Rome For they maintaine Idolatrie and false doctrine as you haue truely said and we haue the Gospell established and sincerely taught A brought in the Church of Rome but as an example to shew that they are not alway Scismatikes which go against the state of a Church neither are they alwayes to bee excused as free from Scisme which maintaine vnitie and peace For I pray yee tell me if in a Church there be foule abuses and such as are intollerable as bringing hazarde both to the Church and common wealth one part cry out against them an other part defend and cherishe them who are the Scismatikes True it is there woulde bee no stirre if none did finde fault But will yee saye they bee Scismatikes which doe publishe the truth to throw downe falsehood Or will yee saye those are no Scismatikes which do withstande and fight against the trueth because they woulde haue an vnitie and quiet estate Philochrematos I doe graunt that where there are intollerable corruptions those are Scismatikes which doe maintaine the same Because they make a rent from God and from his truth howsoeuer they be at vnitie amongest them selues I doe also confesse that it is the part of euerye Godly Preacher in due time and place and in good sorte to reprooue such corruptions and although there shoulde be a Scisme by that meanes yet they are not to bee accounted Scismatikes for they haue doone but their duetie But what is this to the purpose Doth this discharge our Puritanes from Scisme Our Church hath no such abuses They be but toyes and trifles which they striue about It is a great wickednes for men to make a broyle and striue in the Church about matters of no importaunce It were much better for them to imploy them selues to teach the people to know their dutie Orthodox I am fully of your mind in this point that it is a great wickednes for mē to make any broyle in the Church for trifles and matters of no importance the peace of the Church ought to be deare vnto men And I doe not thinke there is anye Church which is so pure in doctrine and gouernement but it hath some little spots You doe also graunt as much as I doe require when yee say those are Scismatikes which maintaine intollerable corruptions and such as reprooue them doe but their duetie For it must follow that some of our chiefe Prelates do bring in and maintaine intollerable abuses that they bee the Scismatikes and the cause of all mischiefe in our Church and then the Precisian as you terme him doth but discharge his duety in finding fault Philochrematos I tolde yee before and I tell yee againe and againe I doe affirme it that they bee trifles which our Puritans do striue about If you can shew anye intollerable corruption which our lawe doth establish yee say somewhat For our chiefe Prelates mainetaine nothing but the lawes Orthodoxos You tell me they be trifles when I know that your tongue can tell nothing but truth I will beleeue yee Yee woulde haue me shew any such abuse established by our lawe as is intollerable I tell yee flatly my iudgement is this that the verye grounde and substaunce of our lawes is the worde of God And that the verye minde and intent of the lawe is that whatsoeuer is against God and his worde shoulde be throwne downe And I doe not take that man to iudge so dutifully as he ought to doe of his Prince and noble Counsellers which doth not thinke that their whole purpose was to set vp Gods truth and to throw downe wickednes and therfore made such lawes as did tend to that effect And also I am perswaded that the grosse abuses in our Church are either by neglect of the lawes or else by peruerting the true meaning of the lawes by some of those which shoulde put them in execution Will not you affirme that our lawes haue this minde and equitie in them that nothing shoulde bee which is againste the manifest worde of God and which destroyeth his Church for the maintenaunce whereof in deed our lawes were established Philochrematos What if I affirme that our lawes haue this minde and equitie in them that nothing shoulde be which is againste the manifest word of God or which destroyeth his Church as in deede I doe affirme What can yee gather thereby but onely this which maketh flatlye against yee That looke howe much more Godlye the lawes are so much greater is their offence in disobeying them Orthodoxos That which you saye is true the more Godlye the lawes are the more is the offence of those which disobeye them But giue me leaue now to shew wherein disobedience lyeth and to gather that which I perceiue you do not yet see The law of God is absolutely perfect both in the purpose of requiring that which is Godly and also in expressing the same in most perfect forme Herevpon it followeth that so soon as euer a man swarueth from the law of God in any 〈…〉 Now when mē come to make laws to establishe the lawes and worship of God in any kingdom let them be the wisest and the lernedest and the most Godly in the whole world Let the multitude of them be very great Let their whole purpose and care be to set foorth no law but that which in euery respect is
holy Yet because God onely hath this glorye to be absolutelye perfect in wisedome and knowledge it must needes be graunted that some imperfection maye be in their lawes For it is incident vnto men for to erre Put case then they in some pointes swarue from the truth and it be afterwarde made knowne vnto men whome God doth further lighten Shall their conscience bee tyed therevnto If they finde Gods worde to goe one waye and the law in some thing an other which thinke you they oughte to cleaue vnto Shall they saye thus they were wise that set foorth the lawe we will follow them Is not God then dishonoured and denyed when men are preferred before him Shoulde they not rather obey God then men Is it then disobedience when they refuse a commaundement of men because they dare not disobey God It is not for any man rashely and stubbornly to reiect lawes nor in his owne wilfull conceite to depraue them but if with a sober minde and good conscience grounded vppon Gods worde which hee knoweth to bee against anye law he doe with an humble heart refuse to obey the same law though men call him rebell yet before God he shall bee cleared as an obedient man Philochrematos What is al this to the purpose who doth denye any part of that which you say You sayd that the very mind of our Lawes is that nothing shoulde be which is against Gods word thereuppon I did inferre that their offence is the greater which disobey them I thought ye would haue confuted that and haue shewed somewhat as ye sayd which I doe not yet see Orthodoxos You doe interrupt me I was comming vnto that point I am glad yee graunt that the wisest men may faile and that it is no disobedience in a man that refuseth to doe a thing inioyned by them when hee seeth it is agaynst Gods worde Nowe to the other poynt you say the more Godly the Lawes are the greater is their offence that disobeye them I say so also but you gather this out of my wordes when I sayde that the minde and intent of our Lawe is that whatsoeuer is against God and his word shoulde bee throwne downe If men did neuer erre then that shoulde alwaies followe which you woulde inferre But seeing they fayle often in some poyntes which onely shoote at that in making their laws to haue them agree with Gods word it is but a foolish cōclusion which you make Now marke what followeth vppon this which you do not consider if it fal out that they establish something which is against the worde their minde is that the same shoulde be established so soone as it is espied to bee so the more godly they are the more is their intent that way Then to the purpose you say the laws of Godly men are disobeied I saye it is not their mind if they be godly that any thing by them set down should be obeied if it be found to be against the worde of God For this were to deny the lawe makers to be godly to say that what soeuer they haue once decreed they will haue it obeied be it found to bee agreeable to the trueth or against the trueth Philochrematos This is a very vnwise speeche and such as woulde breede al confusiō For by this means euery priuate man shall be a Iudge and controwler of the Law Againe the Law-makers cannot set down any penalty to be inflicted vppon the breakers of Lawes For if this be that the law shall bee challenged to be against the worde of GOD and therefore to haue no power euen by the minde of those which made it then howe shall those which haue executiō of laws discharge their 〈◊〉 they can not dispence with the penalty of the Lawe Lawes cannot be dissolued but by the same authoritie that they were confirmed Orthodoxos Some men take nothing to be wiselye spoken but that which commeth out of their own mouth and their confused minde imagineth confusion where none is Euery priuate man that will bee a true Christian ought to bee so well instructed that he know the thinges he doth are commaunded by God and if any thing be commanded him by man which in his owne Conscience he knoweth to be forbidden by the worde of God it is not the lawe that shall excuse him in his deed Do you thinke that this is a good excuse which Athiestes make when they haue liued in two or three Princes dayes and professed contrary religions to say we are priuate men wee may not iudge of Laws but we wil demaunde are priuate men to bee Iudges and controwlers of Lawes surely in that sence which you speak they are not for it is a very disordered thing that euerye priuate man shoulde bee an open reproouer and controwler of Laws much lesse may priuate men take vppon them to be reformers But thus farre a priuate man may go for the keeping of his owne Conscience pure he is to iudge of Laws and humbly to submit him selfe to the penalty where hee seeth he may not obey and for the other difficulty which you make is not the penalty against such as do contemptuously maliciously and wilfully despise and breake Lawes Doe not the wise Law-makers presuppose such executors of Iustice as shall be able to discerne whether it be wilfully and stubbornly that refusall is made or vppon good grounde of conscience I would to God it were not that some executors of Iustice did rather come nigher the breaking of their othe by turning the edge of the Lawe against such as it meant moste of all to fauour and cherishe and the backe towards those whom it purposed to cut downe and that greeuous corruptions were not cloked couered with pretence of law Philochrematos If yee can not prooue this yee are worthy to smart for it I doe not thinke there bee any such executors of Laws The Iudges in the Commonwealth they be learned and wise and as for ecclesiastical gouernours they were neuer more graue and learned they bee farre from cloking and couering any corruptions as you say with the pretence of Lawe Orthodoxos I will not meddle with the ciuill Magistrates or with their doinges But this I will saye for Ecclesiasticall Iudges that horrible corruptions passe thoroughe theire Handes Yea suche and so many that if it please not GOD in his greate mercy to looke vppon vs they will lay waste the Church and hazard the common wealth Philochrematos Ye doe but slander and accuse falsely the Puritanes are they which destroye the Churche and Common wealthe they are the Vipers which gnawe oute the Bowelles of theire owne Mother Orthodoxos It is an easye matter barelye to affirme or denye the worst men of all as the scribes Pharisees did accuse our Sauioure Christe and sayde he was a naughty man affirming that them selues were good men The Pope and his Shauelinges did cry oute vppon Luther and all other true Seruauntes of GOD calling them Heretiques