first how vnwares he speaketh contrarie to him selfe He confesseth flatly that this negatiue of S. Gregorie wherin he denieth any ought to be vniuersall Bishop is in defence of the truth Yet Maister Harding in the fourth article goeth about to proue that the pope is vniuersal B. so by his own confession he goeth about to proue a lye Secondarely he confesseth at the last that Maister Cranmar was a Byshop and Maister Iuell with other his felowes are Bishops yet at other times he and his fellowes wil in no case graunt it Thirdly he saith no B. of Sarisburie was a Caluinist before Maister Iuell and that is a manifest lye Fourthly that no Byshop of Canterbury was maried before Cranmar and that is an otherlie So in al this former péece either he speaketh nothing but lyes or if it be true it is such truth as by open writing he hath impugned But Maister Harding bicause he can not deny this contrarietie he will bid vs proue the other that any B. of Sarisbury hath bene of one religion with Caluin or that any B. of Cant. hath bene maried In déede this is the ground of their whole religion bold asseuerations without any manner warrant and then they bid vs proue the contrary But although this vnequall dealing be not good and he that teacheth anye thing shoulde proue the same to be true yet I am content for truthes sake to reproue in fewe woordes these negatiues of Maister Hardings First this forbidding mariage was vniuersally established by Pope Siluester the seconde who was made Pope by the meanes and woorking of the deuil as their own writers confesse in the yeare of our Lord 980. Yet I graunt through the folly of vnlearned bishops about .400 yeares after Christ matrimonie in the cleargy began to be misliked especially in the West church For in the East church they made no account of it yea they thought it was no hinderaunce to the minister for perfourmance of his dutie in Gods church But as I haue said the West church in many places forbad it And S. Ierom although in many places he speake reuerently and well of it yet in some places vpon his owne priuate affection he misliketh it But as touching this purpose more then thre hundred yeares after Christ Priestes mariage was thought verie lawfull But the English men receiued the faith of Christ in the latter time of Nero as Gildas witnesseth an olde writer and a Britan who liued in the yeare of our Lord .580 and will Maister Harding say that the thing being lawfull yet in .300 yeare togither there was neuer a Byshop maried And let Mayster Harding héere make no exception either that in those dayes ther was no Byshops of Canterbury or Sarisbury or that Gildas auctority is not good Theodoretus saith that S. Paule him selfe preached héere in his latter time Nicephorus and other moe say they receiued the fayth in the yere of our Lord 63. by Ioseph of Arimathia After this supersticion began againe to bréede then an .179 many preachers were sent for to call them againe to their former profession Whervpō Tertullian speaking of this age saith Britānorum inaccessa Romanis loca Christo fuerin◠subdita And Petrus Cluniacensis speaking of the Scots calleth them christianos antiquiores the most auncient christian men And the story is knowen how Lucius then King of England was very diligent in setting out the Gospell Thus it appeareth the true faith hath bene in Englande almost euer since our sauiour Christ died Now y t in those daies ther wer bishops in Englād it is likewise manifest When Eleutherius the Pope 177. sent preachers into England they found here .3 called archiflamines and .25 called flamines which he turned in to thrée archbishops .25 byshops Thus much then is clere that in England were Christian bishops and they might mary Now to proue that they were maried it is plaine by Gildas in the latter ende of his booke where he reproueth the Bishops their wiues and their children So this lying negatiue of M. Harding is reproued that sayth no Bishop was euer maried in England before Bishop Cranmer For the other negatiue that there was neuer B. of Sarisburie of that religion which Caluine taught it appeareth by M. Iuels Replie which sheweth that not onely in England but in all Christendome that religion was in the chiefest articles professed And yet bicause it is here brought with the suretie of M. Hardings warrant we wyll speake a little of this negatiue It is boldlye auouched of manye popish Priestes that Christianitie was placed here by Augustine which is called the Englishe Bishop He was sent from Rome and landed in the Ile of Tenet in Kent an 596. But it is alredy shewed that we had the faith of Christ long before Then what did Augustine here I will tell thée Christian Reader and I wyll tell thée that which M. Harding shall nener be able to confute He did first perswade the King and Quéene not to enforce his new religion but to leaue it fréely to men to follow if they would Afterward being made Bishop of Canterburie by consent of a Synode he thrust into that Church altars vestiments images Masses challices crosses candlesticks ▪ sensers banners processions holy water holy bread funerals tithes and such other stuffe whych before that time was neuer séene in England Then he changed their kéeping of Easter day taught them manye ceremonies in Baptisme and when he coulde not bring all men to his diet he moued great persecution against such as defended the libertie of the Church Then he receiued from Rome relickes of diuers Saintes buylt a Monasterie to Saint Peter wrought many fained miracles and so at the last he died about the yeare of our Lord .610 Now for further proofe of this that Augustine marred and not made our religion it is verye probable that we neuer receiued our faith from Rome but from the East Church First bicause we vntill Augustine came among vs kept our Easter after the manner of the Gréeke Church Now it is well knowen what mortall hatred there was for that matter so that he which was enstructed of the one would in no wyse vse the order of the other Agayne when Augustine should be sent vnto them he came backe for feare and the Britaines would not receaue him nor acknowledge anye authoritie of Pope Gregorie ouer them Which sure they would neuer haue done if they had receaued theyr fayth from Rome Thus much then followeth we had the faith of the Gréeke Church without all superstitious ceremonies of the Church of Rome and so it is manifest our bishops were then of Maister Caluines profession in the whole substaunce of their religion And so is this other negatiue of M. Harding prooued a lye This I haue sayd the more at large bicause M. Hardyng and his fellowes woulde haue vs beleue that our faith came from the Pope and Dan Augustine
your minde what hath moued you to enter so farre Next how faithfully you haue delt in the same Then what rewarde you may looke for in the ende Dering Of this wicked Epistle gentle reader thou art now come to the peroration although it be long and odious as the maner of olde buyldinges is to haue wide ruinous kitchins yet thou shalt do well to reade it to learne to take héede of such manner doing and although the filthy synckes be somewhat lothsome at the first yet by the grace of God the sauor shall not infect thée First saith he what moued you to enter so farre Doublesse Maister Harding the frée mercy of God the father poured vpon him through Iesus Christ this was the efficient cause His ende was to glorifie God that God might glorifie him againe for his faithfull dealing It hath ben such as flesh and bloude coulde suffer That which is wanting shall be accounted vnto him by the merit of his sauiour Iesus Christ. The rewarde that he looketh for is not of merite but of grace and it is the inheritaunce of that kingdome which was the porcion of Gods chosen ordeined from y e beginning Now these beginnings being thus Maister Hardings further running can be but hastening to new lyes what so euer he shall further say of Maister Iuells profession These other vngodly woords y t came after full of much bitternesse are not worthy aunswere Euery one may inuent them that delighteth in euill speaking and they can not cary any good man to mistrust Harding ¶ If this councell can not sincke into you if neither this nor any other the like aduise shall take place with you what is my parte to do but to leaue you to your selfe and to the will of God Dering After sundry waies atempted how Maister Harding might bring our doinges into suspition at the last very modestlye he doth leaue vs vnto God but by and by he breaketh out againe he cannot suppresse his coler and for a full proofe that all his fayer speaking is hipocrisy he raueth streight so out of measure that he doth excéede him selfe not prouing anye thing but as if his worde were Apollos oracle he presumeth with out controlle to speake what he listeth and goeth away so fast in his frothy matter that contrary to his woonted cunning he forgetteth how to speake for after a great heape of words of which euery one according to his number doth specifie a new vntruth he writeth thus Leaue to do as not only through your whole Replye but also through your first article you haue done Who euer spake after this maner what writer what scholer what childe when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie nothing This phrase of Maister Hardings shal be allowable but that surely he shall not onelye neuer proue but also not before he set out his next booke After this vncomelye speaking he bringeth in very absurd matter and chargeth Maister Iuell bicause he bolstreth vp his Religion with the authorities of late wryters Yet where Maister Harding bringeth one sentence out of the olde fathers giue me leaue in a doutfull matter to vse one of Maister Hardings gesses Maister Iuell I thinke bringeth twenty But what forceth he to speake that speaketh he knoweth not what Harding ¶ If you intend to write against any of our Treatises cul not out our sayings forth of a whole heape as your maner is leauing what toueheth the point in controuersie and taking parte that being put alone and besides the rest semeth to haue lesse force Dering It were hard to finde such an other Caligula that so approueth this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a shamlesse behauiour in him selfe He chargeth Maister Iuel with culling out of sentences who layeth forth his whole aunswere word for worde and findeth no fault with him selfe that skippeth at aduentures sometime two leaues at once and aunswereth not a worde Againe about this he vseth a heap of vaine words as though in much bibble babble all controuersy were decyded This maner of wryting doeth make me remember a certaine Lacedomian which tooke a nightingale and pulling of hir fethers when he saw hir little body thou art euen a voice saide he and nothing else and surely Maister Harding is but a nightingale take away his fethers that is his gaye wordes and there is nothing but a little withered carcase vnderneth He accuseth Maister Iuell of a childish wit but with how childish a iudgement who séeth not I will make no comparison of the man he hath nothing which he hath not receiued if any man doe not thinke hym as well learned as anye Englishe Louanist if Apollo might awarde him his hyre he shoulde haue Midas eares It forceth not what correction Maister Harding vseth to discredite his Replie All the learned men in Englād will seale it with their iudgement y t it sheweth a rare replier He talketh of burning it and no doubt him selfe woulde cary a fagot to helpe make the fyre but it is cast in a good moulde and shall kéepe his fashion notwithstanding this rable of new carpenters that woulde disfigure it Harding ¶ Remember Maister Iewel it is the cause of God you would seme to treate God hath no nede of your Lyes Leaue wrangling ieasting scorning mocking scoffing Contend not about wordes and syllables forsaking the matter Obscure not the truth with vaine Rethorique ouerwhelme it not with your abundance of woordes Bring not confusion to the matter when it is cleare of it selfe make not shew of victorie where you are least able to answere Make not your reader to laugh where he would be taught Affect not so much to be pleasant seeke rather to be a true handler of Gods causes Put not the hope of your victory in the coldenesse of your Aduersary but in the truth of the matter Refuse not to stand to their iudgemēt alleadged against you whose witnesse you bring for you Allow not a writer in one place condemning him in an other place Dering Nowe sure if Mayster Harding were a boy in the Grammer schoole for this pretie tale he deserued to go to play I haue not séene one in copia verborum varie a sentence more handsomly And how shall all this be aunswered Euen as Cleomenes aunswered the Ambassadours from Samos to such a long oration of so little purpose the whole hangeth so loosely that the beginning I can not remember and therefore I vnderstand not the middest but such things as are in the end are altogither disalowed For Mayster harding sayth in the ende he is a colde aduersary if he meane colde in religion it may be well graunted if otherwise colde it may not be alowed looke what heate of wordes eyther will or abilitie can vtter in his Epistle and Reioynder there is nothing wanting Hardyng ¶ If you wil vse the testimonie of the Scholemen and Canonists consider it to bee reason that you subscribe to their fayth It is well knowne
¶ A SPARING Restraint of many lauishe Vntruthes which M. Doctor Harding dothe chalenge in the first Article of my Lorde of Sarisburies Replie By Edward Dering student in Diuinitie With an answere vnto that long and vncourteous Epistle entituled to M. Iuel and set before M. Hardings Reioinder Hieremie xxiij ¶ The Prophet that hath a dreame let him tell a dreame and he that hath my worde let him speake my worde faithfully What is chaffe to the wheat saith the Lorde ¶ Imprinted at London by Henry Denham for Humfrey Toy dwelling in Poules Church yarde at the signe of the Helmet ¶ TO THE RIGHT worshipfull Maister Thomas Wotton Esquire Edvvard Dering vvisheth all health and peace in CHRISTâ— AS ofte as I doe consider the estate of man here placed to accomplishe his appointed pilgrimage I remember the saying of the rightuous IOâ— that mannes life is a waâ—fare vpon the earth But when I further see what maner of fight we haue what enimies to encounter with vs howe great of force how cankred of will how subtile in deuise how continuall in assault on the other side how weak we be of our selues â–ª I remember the saying of our sanioure Christ that if it were possible the very electe should be deceiued There is no condition without his enimie no calling without temptation no estate sure The world deceiueth those who will not see that the worlde doth pearishe The fleshe defileth other that think filthinesse to be pleasure and make vnclennesse their felicitie And where these two can not bring forth the shamelesse breache of the law of God there rageth that Dragon and olde Serpent that seducer of the world that liâ—r and father of lyes and he soweth cockle among good corne superstition and heresie among the seedes of obedience and good bâ—hauiour where of it cometh that suche as will not be partakers with SODOME and GOMORRA nor haue felowship with those rotten woundes and stinking sores that make the blaspheming of Gods holy name their honoure yet they should be drowned in wicked doctrine that by some meanes their saluation might be hindred This estate of man so muche the more to be lamented how much the lesse it is regarded would make a Christian minister to muse muche and oftentimes howe he might be a frutefull labourer in Gods vineyarde For sith the children of wrathe doe not cease to walke disobediently and with al care and studie some in example of euill life some in profession of vngodly doctrine doe allure and entice other to walke with them in their open and wide iourney of euerlasting wretchednesse how shall not the children of light according as euery one hath receiued giftes so apply their endeuoure that godlinesse and good religion might call againe the lost children vnto the narow way of euerlasting happinesse The latter dayes are come and impietie dothe abound iniquitie hath so spredde hir selfe that she is plentifull bothe in worde and deede and that not in secrecie only and in priuate assemblies but in the face of the worlde and in open wryting while some preferre the present state before eternall life other delite more in dreames than in the worde of God It behoueth therefore euery true christian in all places to rebuke sinne to set forthe Gods glory in open meetings and to maintaine his worde before the enimie knowing that his rewarde is the saluation of his owne soule and his place is prepared in the kingdome of God his father From this duety neither King nor Queene Duke nor Earle honourable nor other are exempt but euery one as he is higher in dignitie so his accompt is the greater in the day of iudgement It helpeth not the lay man to say he is no minister Where the cause is Gods we are all a chosen generation and a royall priesthode an holy nation and a peculiar people to shew forth his vertue that hath called vs out of darknesse into his maruellous light If we will not walke in this light we abide in darkenesse and in the shadow of death If we will not shew forthe his vertue we are not his chosen generation nor his peculiar people If we haue not his name wrytten in our foreheade we shall not stand among the electe with the Lambe in Mount Syon If we haue not the pleasant smel of life vnto life we haue not Gods gosple engrafted in vs. As many as be Christians haue giuen their faith vnto Christ in their baptisme vnder the witnesse of a great many They haue forsaken the flesh the world and the deuil If they wil now be at league with the sinner and at agrement with the euill doer they haue broken their first promise and they are founde vnfaithfull And for their faith thus violate giuen vnto the immortall God God againe will breake with them his couenaunt of mercie if in time they repent not This made me right worshipfull sir according to the talent which God hath giuen me so in these euill dayes to apply my laboure not doubting but that little light with which he hath endued me by his free mercy may shine through the cloudes and mistes of errour which the prince of this darknesse hath blowne abroade God turne their hearts that builde vpon his euill foundations and God encrease their number that be setters vp of vertue and zealous in the house of the Lord. And of this number bicause God hath made you one of good will desirous and of authority able to defend the profession of a christian man I could not but chuse your worship vnder whose name my little labor should appeare both for a testimonie vnto all men that you are one in whome your countrey doth reioyce and a prouocation vnto other that by your example they might learn to liue Ther be diuers that loue the worde of God and in common talke make a glorious profession but the world wil not let them go vprightly vnto the truth of the gosple There be other whose conuersation is not amisse and in ciuil behauior giue good exaÌ„ple but they be so drowned in error that their estate is very lamentable they be the little flock and few in nuÌ„ber that do ioyne vertue and good religion togither It is hard and laborous to fleshe and bloud and therfore we turne vs froÌ„ it The way is narow wher they are both coupled therfore few do finde it FroÌ„ the princes priuie chaÌ„ber vnto the pore cottage they haue rare dwelling It would make a Christian heart to bleede to consider duely the maners of eche estate The scarlet and purple garmeÌ„ts do hide and couer vnchast and vnpure bodies â–ª The ornaments of gold and siluer are had to beutifie most horrible othes good learning and wisdome are abused to al deceit and craftinesse Simplicitie and plainenesse is a cloke of many subtile cogitations Neede and pouertie are common dwelling places of muche dissolute life Truthe is well nigh forsaken and faith is almost perished from the face of the
doth not direct your goyngs and therefore you make suche often reaches at hatred What preiudice should Maister Iuell bring vnto your cause which of it selfe is weake and of all Godly men forsaken What harme vnto your person whose returne should be his exceding ioye and whose obstinacy is the encrease of his commendations Bicause say you in the person of an other he putteth you in remembrance from whence you be fallen Why M. Harding are you offended to heare of your euyll doyng Uerilye the wise man sayth He that refuseth instruction despyseth his own soule But what speaketh this person whom you meane vnto M. Harding not long since c. O custome of euill speaking what a pleasure doost thou bring vnto the euill disposed person We haue hearde often of Maister Iuells raiâ—inges and scoffings euery leafe of his vncourteous dealing a long common place of his bitter kinde of writing After so much a doo seing there will be required some proofe he séeketh busylye and when he can finde none he maketh the greatest leape though there be many very wyde that is in the reioinder euen out of this preface quite ouer the Replie in to the conclusion and there he hath found a poore man which asketh a question which hath set him in these fiery passions what is there in such manner dealing but either singular impudeÌ„ce or extreme foly Beare yet with him good Reader Barre him of these leapings and all his pastime is done But let vs heare what Maister Harding can aunswere to this poore man Thus Maister Iuell maketh him speake vnto Maister Harding Not long since you taught them of our side the Gospell euen in like sorte and fourme as it is tought now Here Maister Harding bicause he can make no good aunswere thinketh it not amisse to stop this pore mans mouth with a litle sophestrie You taught vs sayth this poore man the Gospell By this saith Maister Harding you doo vs to wéete what your gospell is and wherin it consisteth Blame not this poore man though he can say no more I haue béen a scholar almost this twentye yeares and yet I can not sée what this aunswere meaneth They must be Lâ—nces eyes and such as can looke through milstones that can sée this conclusion very déepe cogitations must go so far into sentences and a man had néede of a warme nightcap that should folow them But seyng we can get no better aunswer the poore mans saying shall stande still for true and Maister Hardings obscure gatherings shall verifie the coÌ„mon saying that it is better to saye nothing then to holde ones peace In the ende Maister Harding denieth that he euer spake these woordes wherby he doth empayre his credit in all other matters Let the Christian reader for his contentation when time and occasion may serue enquire of any that then liued in Oxâ—orde This simple way may not countervaile so many witnesses Hardyng ¶ To answere to the matter simply and truly as before God I will not here for my better excuse accuse the will of the Prince in whose dayes I was brought vp in learning the ernest endeuour of the Gouernours then being to satisfie his desires the crueltye of the lawes the yeelding of all in generall except a very fewe the great silence of preachers that then durst not teach necessaries the common ignorance of men Omittingâ— all these which I might bring for some part of excuse I am content for truthes sake freely to accuse my selfe In certaine points I was deceiued I confesse by Caluin Melancthon and a few others as you by them and sundrye others are nowe deceiued in many Dering Now he commeth to the simple and true aunswere for hys turning but he turneth so many members in one sentence that he turneth all sense quite out of the periode Perhappes he thinketh he speakes to the poore man againe therefore he speaketh in riddles Or if it bee not so the truth I trowe breaketh out And againe he accuseth the iniquitie of those dayes but his darke hart cannot abide the light straight he starteth backe againe and is content to take the fault vnto him selfe bicause all other excuses are vayne and vngodlye And as well as he can in so great a storme he runneth vnder the couering of S. Augustines auctoritie but it may not helpe him sithe their turnings are not like Saint Augustine turned from traditions vnto scripture but he turneth from the scripture vnto traditions Againe S. Augustine turned from the vayne trust that he had in man vnto the sure confidence that is fixed in Christ. But he is slidden away euen from Christ to sée how farre men haue established hys aucthoritie This is true as his own conscience doth iudge and hys writings doe testifie when vnder the name of the Churche he gâ—eth from the woord of God Therefore is his turning neyther modestie nor repentance but a shamelesse falling away and an obstinate forsaking of God God giue him grace herein to iudge him selfe that in the day of wrath he be not iudged of the Lord. Harding ¶ Now as to confesse this much truth requireth so to acknowledge your false reportes wisdome forbiddeth Them would I haue also not let to coÌ„fesse if I wist God were delited with our lies Wher then you say I taught your Gospell euen in like sorte and forme in al respects as it is taught now that I deny vtterly In dede I hobde and roued sometimes but your pricks I euer tooke to be to farre for me to shoote at Neither trulye coulde I see the marke that you M. Iuell and suche as you are shot at it was so farre of and therefore I stoode out and shot smaller game Dering Now after this confession made you go as you say from the truth to your wisdome and tel vs in what sorte you preached the Gospell You say you hobde and roued but you neuer shot at any certaine marke Why were you one of Baals prophets that haulted on both sides that woulde serue both God and Mammon too That eate meate with the Gentiles and yet dissemble it before the Iewes The waueryng is vnconstant in all his wayes and bicause thou art neyther hoate nor colde I will spue thée out of my mouth sayth the Lord This hobbing was the cause that you fell agayne to your vomit And this rouing euer since made your shooting vncertaine You could not sée the marke that M. Iuell shootes at the vale of colde deuotion was before your eyes You looked euen now like an Eagle in the poore mans question But nowe you haue oyled your blere eyes that you can not sée Christ. God lighten your eyes that you sléepe not styll in death You stoode without you say and shot smaller game in déede you shot such game as was not worth your labour At the imaginations of mans brayne you roued so muche vncertainly that you shoote yet now beating the ayre Therfore haue you eyes and sée not c. There be
is greater than I yet Christ and his Father in deitie were one In the Gospell some were called the brothers of Christ yet it is knowen they were but his Kynsmen Iohn was called the sonne of Mary and Mary Iohns mother yet it is manifest the meaning is not so These places are 〈◊〉 sufficient to instruct vs that somtime in the scripture we must haue spirituall vnderstanding He that requireth further manye places are playne of Christes corporall departure It is good for you that I goe hence sayth Christ in the Gospell And agayne but now I go away to him that sent me And in the same chapiter twyse I go to my Father And least of these sayings we make any straunge meaning the Disciples doe make aunswere loe now speakest thou playnly and thou speakest no parable It is like that other where is spoken you shall haue the poore alwayes with you but me ye shall not haue alwayes And yet an other most vndoubted testimonie of his bodilye absence Nowe am I no more in the world but these are in the world and I come vnto thée And in the actes of the Apostles Steuen did sée him standing on the right hand of his Father And it is written that in his returne he shall come agayne euen as he was taken vp which could not be so if the Priest might fet him agayne with whisperings and incantations This maye suffice the Christian Reader concerning this transubstantiation which M. Harding so vpholdeth God giue his children grace that such brightnes of his holye woord may illumine their darke harts that they may behold clerely what is his truth And thus much of his first marke Another is that he neuer shot at the externall sacrifice of the church meaning hereby that the priest doth offer vp Christ vnto his Father a sacrifice propitiatorie for the quicke and the dead This romish presumption of the childe of perdition though it sufficiently be beaten downe by disproofe of transubstantion yet bicause M. Harding will néedes make this an other marke I wyll speake somewhat of it Let vs first lay downe this straunge opinion in plaine woords euen as they teach it so shall we the more easily remember what they say the more effectually hate their wicked doctrine Thus then they teach The priest daily at the aultare doth offer vp Christ vnto his father a sacrifice propiciatorie and vnbloudy both for the quicke and for the dead Out of this one outrageous sentence all the froth and filth of the sea of Rome in manner floweth There are in it welnigh as manie lyes as ther are woordes For as it is héere ment we haue nowe no Priest no dayly Oblation no Aultare no offring vp of Christ vnto his father no propitiatory Sacrifice no Masse no remission of Sinnes with out bloud no Sacrificing for the dead All these thinges being proued by testimonie of the scriptures I trust all godly consciences shalbe quieted and all Maister Hardings sacrificing imaginations shalbe buried againe in that pit of iniquity out of which they are spronge First then as touching this name Priest we haue to consider both what the scriptures doo attribute vnto our sauiour Christ and againe what commission he hath giuē vnto his ministers Of Christ S. Paule saith pontifex factus in aeternum he is made priest for euer euen as the prophet saith thou art a priest for euer after the order of Melchisedech And againe bicause he endureth for euer he hath an euerlasting priesthoode 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a priesthood that cānot be transferred vnto an other Therfore al other are blasphemous y t either make thē selues his successours or pretend any other sacrifice And yet for an absolute proofe that onely Christ is nowe a priest and no other the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is properly giuen vnto him alone in all the newe Testament Neyther Paule nor Peter nor any other Apostle or Euāgelist did euer claim it but called them selues commonly the ministers of Christ Christ alone beinge our highe priest Wherby we sée these massing sacrifices first in the name rob Christ of his honour and in their further arrogancie contempneth the name of minister wherin S. Paule did so often glory And thus much of the priesthood of our sauiour Iesus Christ. Now it resteth we should see what authority he hath giuen to his Apostels and this we are taught by S. Mathevv where Christ giueth his Apostles their commission altogither indifferently saying to euery one goo and teach all nacions baptizing them in the name of the father the sonne the holy ghost teaching them to obserue althings whatsoeuer I haue cōmaunded you And loe I am with you alway vnto the end of y e world Here is the whole authority of the minister out of the new Testament expressed For thei ar told what they should do y t is docete teach baptize c. and how far they shall go docete cos c. teaching them to obserue althings which I haue cōmaunded you And in the woordes following loe I am with you alway he confirmeth that authority which before speakinge vnto Peter he had giuen vnto al that whosoeuer they bound in earth should be bounde in heauen and what soeuer they did loose on earth shoulde be loosed in heauen This selfe commission is likewise expressed by S. Iohn when Christ saith to his Discipels As my father sent me so also I send you where immediatly followeth and when he saide it c. whose sinnes ye remit they are remitted And in what sorte God sent his sonne it is likewise expressed by the prophet sayinge as S. Luke resiteth it Spiritus Domini super me c. The Spirit of the Lorde is vpon me bicause he hath anointed me that I should preach the Gospell to the poore he hath sent me that I should heale the broken harted that I shoulde preach deliuerance to the Captiues and recouering of sight to the blinde that I should set at liberty them that are brused and that I should preach the acceptable yeare of the Lord. Thus in these thrée is the whole office of the minister to preach to minister the sacramentes to remit sinnes no one woorde concerning sacrificing And this is the miserable blindnes of the whole papacie to foster vp and norish that incestuous Religion wher euery one committeth whooredome with his owne deuises yet the chiefest keies of their religion hath no one woorde for warrant in the scriptures What manner of lanterne do they make the word of God What maner of light to guide our steps What maner of rule to correct our euil wayes and what maner a testamēt that is sealed with the bloud of Christ if so manie thinges are necessary which our onely sauiour and his eternall worde haue not commaunded But the Apostle hath spoken and it must be fulfilled that the tyme should come when mens eares would itch
place whereunto you direct vs hath no such saying Thus it hath In my iudgement this woord Eucharistia in this place of Irenaeus signifieth not the sacrament alreadye consecrate but rather other common breade After this he alledgeth thrée sundrie aucthorities that it maye be so taken and in fine hée sayth how be it herein I will not striue Other wordes then these Maister Iuell hath none and is this to say Eucharistia is not the sacrament Hath he any such absolute saying Or doth he affirme any whit at all O that the Replie had bene of M. Hardings penning he would then sure haue good matter against it Now it is the bishops own doing he can say little and not corrupt his woordes But marke Christian Reader in this shooting what ill fauoured feathers he hath vpon hys arrowes The vpmost is corruption of M. Iuels woordes the 2. that lye vpon the bow the one is deceite the other ignorāce The corruption is already manifest the deceite is where he would haue thée to thinke that Eucharistia might not signifie bread but where euer it were found it shoulde make for hys transubstantiation The ignorance is in that he maketh it so straunge a thing that Eucharistia might signifie breade not yet consecrate When in his popish Masse before consecration the bread and wyne are called sancta illibata sacrificia holye and immaculate sacrifices Concerning the word Eucharistia it is found in the new testament often times yet alway signifying either open thanks giuing or else thankfulnes of the minde so in that the sacrament is called Eucharistia it is a good argument against transubstanciation An other marke that Maister Harding could not shoote at is concerning the prophesie of Malachie that it shoulde signifie the sacrifice of our Cōmunion Of this mark reade the vntruth An other make is this that in the sacramēt of the aultare ther is no vertue but when it is vsed This marke saith he was out of my reach But if he say true he is then but a bragger eyther he hath not read so much as he pretendeth or else he is a loytering truant 〈◊〉 that hath forgot so good a lesson In this one thing he offendeth both waies the godly in that he wil not shoote at that marke which the holy Ghost hath set vp the vngodly and men of his owne deuotion in that he denyeth any vertue to be in the water of baptisme but when one is christined For if it be so why sing they ouer that water where none is christined sis fons viuus aqua regenerans vnda purificans c. be thou a liuing spring a water of new birth a water that doth purifie c. Maister Harding cannot deny how merily this hath bene song in Colledges yet none haue bene christined I trow among them And a Doctor of their own side saith si Asinus bibit aquam illam bibit sacramentum if an Asse drinke that water hee drinketh the sacrament Whereby it appeareth they repose vertue in the water though none be baptised Yet in this opinion they agrée not Scotus sayth it is Asinina quaestio a question méete for an Asse But of the water he sayth it is cold running cleare necessarie and common cold to represse concupiscence running to turne the course of our disobedience cleare to lighten our fayth necessarye to bring vs into the way of health common to all men And in commendation of this iudgement it is written in the margine doctrina singularissima a most singular doctrine fit lattin for suche a purpose to attribute such vertue to the water But M. Harding will say these vertues are in the water as Scotus speaketh in ipso fieri but euen while the childe is a baptising And of that opinion Thomas Aquinas séemeth to be wher he saith such prayers as are sayde ouer the water are not necessarye but onely for the solemnitie But here we may ill beleue eyther Thomas or Scotus for Pope Celestine saith otherwise Siue paruuli siue iuuenes whether they be Infants or whether they be yong men let them not come to the sacrament of regeneration which is the wel of life before the vncleane spirite be driuen away exorcismis exsufflationibus Clericorum wyth the cuniurings and the blowings of the Priests And of this opinion is the Maister of the Sentences Whereby it appeareth howe little Maister Hardinges Doctours are manye tymes beholding to hym that will so flatlye denye their opinions For if these thinges be necessary before the christeninge then hath the water vertue in it selfe at other times then the very tyme of christening But thus muche he said rather against his Doctours then against him self for his wordes seme in this place to confesse a truth There is no manner vertue in the water but onely in the vse of it But where he saith it is not so in the sacrament of the aultare but that there is vertue in it though it be not receiued that offendeth the godly and varieth quite from the worde of God and robbeth vs of our great comfort that we haue in Gods mysteries For S. Paul saith Panis quem frangimus the bread which we breake is it not the communion of Christes body For we being many are one bread and one body bicause we be pertakers of one bread By this opiniō we might be thus perswaded if vertue be in the sacramēt when it is not receiued then we may be incorporate into Christes body though we receiue it not contrary to S. Paules doctrine that saith to be of this vnity we must be pertakers of one bread And here I woulde faine aske Maister Hardyng this question if by these wordes hoc est corpus meum the breade is become no breade and a newe grace is put into it whether it be receiued or no I demaunde what if the bread be kept till it be consumed concerning the flesh He aunswereth the Lorde departeth againe when he is prophaned or when he is denyed What then is done with the grace Doth it likewise returne How is it then true that the prophet wryteth verbum meum non reuertetur ad me vacuum my word shal not return vnto me in vaine But how doth it not return in vain when being imploied vpō a dead creature It returneth vnto him again w tout farther quickning his liuely image which is mā or hardening the hart y t is already obdurate to Gods further glory Againe be it thus that a lofe once consecrated be set before a stranger who feedeth on it as vpon common breade if ther be vertue in it he discerneth not the Lords body so shoulde he receiue his own damnation How could it be then true that our sauiour saith that which goeth into the mouth defileth not the man or that which S. Paule saith al things are cleane to them that are clean nothing is to be refused that is receiued with thanks giuing And in an
for he saith as Maister Iuell alledgeth not onely the priest sacrificeth but also the whole company of the faithful But what maketh this for Maister Harding The priest and the people both doe sacrifice therefore is there no difference in the ministerye S. Peter saith you are a kingly Priesthood therfore is ther no difference in the function betwene the minister and the laye man True it is that the minister and the people do offer vp a lyke one sacrifice vnto God but that maketh nothing to Maister Hardings saying Thus we se while he hobbeth and roueth and shooteth at euery marke a lie he was an hypocrite when he was at the best and nowe is led forwarde still to be an open enimie Reade the .222 vntruth An other péece of thys marke is this that men and women make the sacrifice of the aulter and be Priests after the order of Melchisedech Of this reade the .158 vntruth The last péece of thys marke is yet woorst of all nothing else but malice slaunder and wickednesse here agaynst M. Iuell bicause he wryteth not one such woord and commonlye agaynst the truth of God which the wicked doe alwaye peruert And this is that marke that God is the author of euill and driueth men to sin What should I here aunswere but euen saye with the Prophet The scornful haue said We haue made falshood our refuge and vnder vanitie we are hid If euerye such euyll saying myght clayme an aunswere M. Hardings one Reioynder would require many volumes But for a sufficient contentation of the Reader I say in all M. Iuels booke there is no one such woord I adde further nor in all the bookes that euer were wrytten by any godly man of M. Iuels profession Let M. Harding or all hys companions in searching ouer theyr wrytings bryng but one letter whereby we may gesse that euer such a saying was ment and for my part let hys writings be approued If he can not doe this consider of hys religion He would not speake wyckedlye for Gods defence nor talke deceitfully for his cause If anye man require what our opinon is let hym reade any learned man intreating of the predestination of God or of mans frée wyll or for a better warrant let him reade the scriptures it selfe We say al that God made was very good He created man in honour and gaue hym frée wyll and man of himselfe gaue place to inordinate affections where hee might haue obeyed Gods woord euen as it is written He hath set water and fire before thée stretch out thy hand vnto which thou wilt And agayne God created man without corruptiō And concerning sinne we say through the enuy of the Deuill came death into the world Neither néede we make exception agaynst this authoritie bicause it is not in the canō For the Apostle doth authorize it where he writeth He that committeth sinne is of the Deuil For the Deuill sinneth euen from the beginning And in an other place Diabolus est mendax pater eius the Deuill is a lyer and the father thereof not as your friende Mayster Dorman doth interprete it and so was hys father before hym for that were in déede to make God the authour of euill which is the marke you talke of Now euen as the Deuill is authour of euil so we by his suggestiō haue the next cause in our selues which is an vncleane hart lyke as our Sauiour saith Out of the hart procéede euil cogitations c. Of God we say and we say againe and we preache it and we wryte and beleue it and in it we reioyce that God is neyther the author of euyll neyther yet would it should be committed The shepe goe astray without the shepherdes wyll The groate is lost and the poore woman would not so Christ woulde gather togither Ierusalem as the Hen doth hir Chickens but they would not But this we say that the wayes of God are not like the wayes of men that he should not know what thynges were to come He could not be deceiued in his own creature He did foresée the fall of Adam and by his omnipotency could haue made him stand For who can resist hys will He coulde haue made him so pure that he should not haue sinned euen as he hath now made his Aungels and wyll make the whole number of his elect that no man anye more shall take awaye theyr ioye from them And as we are sure this is Gods omnipotēcy so why he did it not we cā not assigne any cause but bicause he would not For we knowe he hath done al things that he woulde Yet a cause ther was and that a most iust and good cause For their is no iniquity with him And this cause he did knowe in his eternall secret counsell before all worldes for as much as all thinges are present with him To enter further into Gods councell and aske why he appointed such a course in which the reprobate both Angels and men shoulde fall away this were presumptuous folly Shall the pot say vnto the potter why hast thou made me so The Godly will staye here and in the feare and loue of God wil professe and beleue both that God ruleth all thinges with his mighty worde and yet wylleth he no man to sinne We haue so much corruption in our selues that we néede no further prouoking vnto wickednesse Now to Maister Hardings purpose thus much we saye that God permitteth synne and with longe patience doth suffer the vessels of wrath prepared to destruction but yet this permission we say doth appertayne vnto the will of God For he doth not suffer it eyther inforced or against his will neither yet doth he so suffer it that he doth nothing him selfe For he ruleth and gouerneth euen their iniquity He suffereth it not to rage at will but guideth it either to the punishment of the wicked as he oft punished the Israelites with the wickednes of straunge Princes or to the triall of his elect as it is well acknowledged of the prophet Dauid saying of Shimei he curseth euen bicause the Lord hath bid him curse Dauid yet God made not the malice of Shimeis mynde Likewyse where it is sayde of the destruction of Ierusalem that God brought vpon them the king of the Chaldeans God did not ingraffe in Nabuchadoneyzar his great cruelty but being bred in his own mind he brought it vpon whom it pleased him Therfore Christ saith all the heares of our head are numbred and with out Gods appointment ther shal not one of them perish This therefore is our doctrine God is no cause of wickednesse but men cannot apply their owne wickednesse but where it pleaseth God neither do they exercise their wickednes but when and how far his grace doth leaue them For plainer declaration of this we may compare the grace of God and the sunne If the sunne be ouer
it is doubtlesse an abhominable lie foreged out of secrecy bicause it should not be coÌ„uinced by witnesse But it shal not be a misse bicause this thing coÌ„meth to question to note what M. Iuell might saye and what the Prince must doe It is not vnknowen what authoritie hath bene giuen vnto the Pope that he hath rule both of heauen and earth and he that taketh one iote of this authoritie from that church is an hereticke And that he may not be iudged as Pope Boniface hath decreed though he drawe innumerable soules headlong into hell and that he hath all knowledge in the closet of his brest that he can dispence against the Apostles and against the old testament and that we must abide the yoke that the Pope layeth vpon vs though it be intollerable and that seate is apostolica sublimitas euen as high as the Apostles and that quicquid statuit quicquid ordinat what soeuer the Pope appointeth what soeuer he ordeineth perpetuo irrefragabiliter obseruandum est it must be obserued for euer without any contradiction Suche blasphemous authority giuen vnto the Pope made that in the time of restoring the Gospell euen good men attributed more vnto the Prince then was conuenient and flatterers more then was to be borne with all as in the time of the sixe articles Bishop Gardiner and his felowes did vnto King Henry the eight when they gaue him authority in the church of God to institute or disanull Lawes as it lyked him best to forbid the mariage of ministers to deny the people the cup in the Lords supper The graunting of such authority is flattery in the subiect the receiuing it presumption in the Prince The church is y e spouse of Christ purchased with his precious bloud and ioyned vnto him euen as a woman vnto hir husbande The Prince is héere a subiect and may set the church no Lawes but as hir heade appointed Christ doth sanctifye his church with the washing of water through the worde that is with baptisme and the preaching out our iustification in his frée mercy if the Prince say it shall be sanctified with crossing and créeping with diredges and Trentalls with holy Breade and holy Water with Pilgrimage and Bonfiers the Prince is rebellious and the Subiect must yéelde his lyfe Then for a briefe conclusion if the Prince wil make any new holynes or forbid the minister to preach y e word that is written or if he will say we shall Prophecie no more at Bethel bicause it is the Kings chapple and bicause it is the kings Courte it lyeth not in his authority Wo be vnto the Prince that shall be so led with errour But if the Princes will doe nothing but she will aske councell at the mouth of God if she will humble hir selfe vnder him as low as the poorest creature in the world if she will set out his glory and â—â—presse the wicked blasphemyes of the honorable if Christ crucified for hir sinnes be alwayes pictured before the eyes of hir soule then shall she runne a happy course and in the end haue a happier garlande If she shoulde héere of enimies hir owne conscience shoulde make hir without feare if all iniquitie should stirre vs to rebellion she should sit vnmoueable The Lord hath placed hir and who is he shall put hir downe She is a good nourse of Christes misticall body and no authority is alone hereof yet in all this supremacy we tye hir vnto the worde of God and as she hath regard vnto hir owne soule in the name of hir God we charge hir not to go beyonde it In this is hir prerogatiue that she can inforce other to this obedience and no man can enforce hir This supremacye Maister Iuell did neuer deny the popish supremacy no good man will grauÌ„t Let it then be contemned wherwith Maister Harding maketh vp this tragedy that we teach one thing at home an other thing abroade After this vsuall inuention he frameth a little Philosophy of his owne and then furthereth it on Epicure wherwith he faineth his comparison Now let the indifferent reader iudge which of these is the wauering man Maister Iuell that in his life hath gone not one hower backe or Maister Harding that many yeares hath preached contrary doctrine Doutlesse had he liued in Seuerus time notwithstanding this long apology his armour shoulde haue ben pulled off and he left naked in token of an apostata and his aduersary commended that in all his lyfe hath ben founde so constant Hardyng ¶ What fault so euer you finde with my chauÌ„ge certaine it is al chaungs be not reproueable He chauÌ„geth wel that chaungeth from euil to good It is a happy chaunge that is made from errour to truth from schisme to vnitie from heresie to right faith from contempt of Religion to the loue of Religion from darkenesse to light from pride to humilitie from pleasing men to study how to please God Who so euer maketh this chaunge he is not to be accompted mutable nor inconstant Dering Hitherto Maister Harding can not deny his turning now least it should preiudice his estimation he thinketh good to commend it true it is he turneth well that turneth for the best it is better to returne then to run alwayes euill but whether you haue made this turne or no it must be tryed not by your worde but by the truth of God The Prophet Dauid doeth aske the question how one shoulde turne aright and doth aunswere him selfe by taking héede vnto Gods worde Now I appeale to Maister Hardings conscience what part the worde of God did worke in his turning he maketh continuall crying out of the church the church but very déepe silence of the worde of God Yet Christ saith heauen and earth shal passe before his word do passe S. Paule saith We may not beleue an Angell that preacheth any other doctrine S. Iames saith It is the word that can saue our soules S. Peter saith It is as sure as the voice of God him selfe that was herd from heauen and what meane these men vnder a vaine title of the church so to neglect it Christ promised to be with his church vntill the latter end of the world but his word is his presence not mans inuentions his Euangelies are our learning not supersticious ceremonies The dayes are now come that we shall say no more the arke of the couenaunt of the Lord but by Christ alone we must make our prayers and by him alone offer vp the sacrifice of praise vnto God that is the fruit of our lippes which confesse his name Therfore if you will make a good turne you must turne to that church which turneth only vnto him and to the simplicity of his Gospell But you haue put on the adulterous attire of straunge intercession and clothed hir selfe with altares and altare clothes with Copes vestimentes Awbes Tunicles Curtaines Sensors Candlestickes Crosses and such other You are
not turned from errour to faith but from the church of God to the synagoge of the deuill And for our owne defence with the prophet Dauid we make aunswere vnto the blasphemers Our trust is in the worde of God After this Maister Harding findeth fault with to much constancye and considering his owne changes woulde haue it seme some commendation to turne vp and downe a little Then he bringeth in the examples of Arrius and certaine heretickes which in their owne opinion were founde to obstinate and compareth Maister Iuell with them in wilfulnesse and otherwise speaketh contumeously against him and for all this will be iudged by his Reioinder Nowe consider good Reader what maner of wryting this is In long talke before he required that his doings might be wayed and doubted not but Maister Iuell should be founde the more vnconstant Then fearing that he coulde not colour the great difference betwen them excuseth his own turning as though he had done well Now that his writings might be as vnconstant as his lyfe hath ben he ouerthroweth quite his first accusation and confesseth that Maister Iuell hath ben as obstinate as euer was Arrius or any hereticke which had rather dye then in any point to seme to relent If this be true wher is all that a doe which was made about the sixe articles and I know not about what subscription O M. Harding oportet mendacem esse memorem it behoueth a lyer to be mindfull Giue Lord vnderstanding and M. Hardings writings shall néede no aunswere one leafe doth confute an other Concerning these examples which he vseth it appeareth that as in these tragedies he hath set apart al honesty so in mani places he hath more shew than learning How can this saying agrée with it selfe some had leuer suffer death then to séeme at any time to haue ben out of the way they vse examples of Arius Macedonius Nestorius Eutyches Did not diuers Arians subscribe in the Councell of Nice and made open protestation that Arrius held the same fayth which the Councell set out And did not Arrius himselfe make the same profession both in woord and writing vnto Constantinus the Emperour after his return vnto Constantinople Did not Macedonius so vse the matter with Alexander B. of Constantinople that when he dyed he commended him to be his successour and after set vp by the Arrians and deposed by the Emperour dyd he not quite forsake his Arrian heresie Did not Eutyches cited to the Councell of Constantinople send one in his roome to subscribe to the fayth of the Ephesine and Nicene Councels Did not Nestorius cry in the open councell at Ephesus Dicatur Maria Deipara cesset haec molestia let Marye be called the Mother of God and let this trouble cease Thys I haue shewed that it might appeare howe fitlie M. Harding doth apply hys examples Now hys writings standing thus sometime without learning often ill agréeing and most commonly wythout honestie what skilleth it in this behalfe if the Reioynder sit in iudgement They say a scabbie horse is good ynough for a scaule Squire Harding ¶ I say not onely as you do in your preface but in this Reioynder I do manifestly proue in due place some Doctours by you to be vntruly alleadged some corruptly translated some peruersly expounded some guilefullye applyed their wooâ—des sometimes abbridged sometymes enlarged sometimes altered sometimes dissembled With these false sleightes you burthen me in word with the same here I haue charged you in dede Sundry auncient fathers which you deny by good authority I haue auouched Your own childish argumeÌ„ts falsly and fondly by your selfe deuised and fathered vpon me I haue wholy contemned and so returned them vnto you againe For the .45 Vntruthes which you pretend to haue noted in my aunswere touching your first Article I haue returned vpon you .225 noted in your Replie of the same Article Those which you impute vnto me be now already partely and maye shortly be iustified And therfore proued not to be vntruthes at all Yours you shall neuer iustifie When you attempt it you shall do it but with a multiplication of infinite other vntruthes Dering Now M. Harding as he is wittie séeing it is not all golde which he hath made to glister and fearing least hys colours might be rubbed away from his writing vpon good courage sayth boldly he hath spoken nothing which he will not prooue in his Reioynder Much after such a sorte began Cyclicus the Poet fortunam priami caâ—â—abo nobile bellum and when Cyclicus hath made an ende of his Iliades M. Harding shall be as good as his woord He chargeth M. Iuel with corrupting the fathers yet in all this Reioynder as appeareth by hys vntruthes he is not able to conuince one authoritie of falsehood He sayth there is no proofe in M. Iuels Preface yet in his own Epistle here is neither truth nor honestie The childish arguments he will passe ouer with silence So he doth in déede many of them and a great péece of thys first article beside Where no shew of aunswere may be had silence can do least harme But Maister Harding though he saye it yet perhaps will not sticke much in this Upon entreaty he will yéelde vnto vs true allegations of the Doctours and will sticke to take vnto him his Arguments againe but touching the .44 vntruthes in that he will neuer yéeld They are all iustified and shall be iustified and .225 returned vpon Maister Iuell which shall neuer be aunswered and if we but attempt it we shall but multeply moe Untruthes But softe good Reader be not a fearde of vanity I remember a certaine Lacedemonian that when he sawe one tying togither longe circumstaunces of speach Now I make God a vowe sayde he this is a hardy man that when he hath no reason yet can roll his tongue so handsomely and what other is this of M. Hardings but tongue rolling his owne Untruthes he saith are all iustified Yet Maister Stapleton confesseth that in one place Maister Harding was ouerséene I haue returned saith he 225. vntruthes yet he hath turned some one of theÌ„ .7 times If he had serued them so all he had returned aboue fiftene hundred and these as he saith can not be aunswered without multiplying of mo vntruthes How true this is let the reader iudge Sure for my part if it be so I will reuoke that I haue written But this I must forewarne them I doe not take it for vntrue to say their Pope is Antichrist and their Masse Idolatrous and their church a sinagogue of iniquitye If otherwise I make any vntruth â–ª either in misconstring the worde of God or falsifying other mens authoritye by Gods grace when I shall vnderstande it I will reuoke it but my conscience is yet cleare I haue written nothing deceitfully Harding ¶ Sith it is thus the best aduise I can giue you is first to consider better of these matters and to call to
of the priest and the lay man that vpon the displeasure conceyued we woulde say one to another Let him neuer be in thy Memento If as the Philosopher sayth the voyce of the people be the voyce of nature then it is certaine that sometyme the priestes wyll was to abbridge the commoditie of this common Masse and in his Memento to seclude some from this common benefite so that euen in this poynt Mayster Hardings distinction is a méere cauill Againe concerning this will of the priest I might aske of Mayster Harding what maner of Masses Pope Gregorie the .vii. said y t minded nothing more than sorcery or the priest that poysoned Pope Victor the thirde in the Chalice or such priestes as I haue knowne some in Cambridge that when they haue played all night at dice in the morning being called away to Masse haue sworne a great othe that they would make hast and come againe A man had néede to knowe his condicions well that would ground his Religion vpon the priestes intent Thus it appeareth that neyther by institution nor will of the priest euery Masse is coÌ„mon Concerning the oblation and communion how can they be commoÌ„ when in some of their Masses they haue none at al. First their is no oblation without bread and wine as the cannon of their owne Masse doth commaund and as Biel doth witnesse But in some of their Masses y e vse of wine is forbidden as appeareth by pope Gregorie therefore in some of theyr Masses there is no oblation or sacrifice Then how can that bée common which is not Likewise it is manifest in the communion how can that be made of the priest without bread and wine Nowe is there no excuse remayning why this distinction being false should not be a cauill except Mayster Harding will say him selfe did not knowe so muche Yet if he doe that will not serue For the very nature of a cauill is onely this vt ab euidenter veris res perducatur that the matter may be brought to open falshood And thus much is sayde for the exact discussing of the word so that it is plaine both by the common speach and by due tryall of the very worde that Mayster Harding maketh his first entrye with a cauill The B. of Saris. For where the matter is agreed vpon it is follie to picke a quarrell vppon the worde Harding The 2. vntruth It is not agreed vpon Dering Mayster Harding hath purposed to espie a great many of vntruthes and fearing least they should not amount to their iust number he thinketh good where oportunitie serueth to make of one eyther two or mo For where Mayster Iuell sayth this distinction of Masse is but a cauill bicause the signification of Masse is knowne Mayster Harding here noteth two vntruthes one it is no cauil an other it is not knowne And what néedeth this doubling if through vaine babling he did not think to blind the eies of the simple Who euer would denie both antecedent and argument both where they hang one of another The noting of this vntruth is a good proufe that y e other was a cauill Whether the signification of Masse be knowne or no small proufe will serue let the worlde bée iudge But whye is Mayster Harding so pleased with hys owne distinction that vpon it he will fownd mo vntruthes Forsooth he is a defender of antiquitie and such distinctions are very auncient more than 2000. yeare agone Anaxagoras made such another and stoode stifly in it that snow was not white bicause it was vnderstand two wayes One as it was water in substance so it was blacke another as it was congealed so it was white but such déepe fetches do not sinck in shallow wits Let vs be content with plaine vnderstanding so it shal be knowne that priuate masse is w t the priest alone no man communicating with him snow shal be whyte stil. The B. of Saris. Euery Masse sayth he is common and none priuate If it be so then hath he already concluded fully on our side Hardyng The .3 vntruth I say not so but vvith addicion Dering What addicions you make onelye wrangling excepted I sée not If there be any vntruth in these wordes the fault is your owne take it vnto your selfe Mayster Iuell affirmeth nothing but vpoÌ„ your saying that euery Masse is publike He inferreth if it be so then you haue concluded on his side you are not zealous for the truth that would thus cary away your reader with trifling Were your addicions neuer so good and godly yet Mayster Iuels wordes might stand without misreport of your saying But bicause we be fallen into these addicions marke good reader what maner ones they bée Euerye Masse sayth he is common concerning both oblation communion If it be so then his Masse it selfe must néedes be somwhat else which Mayster Harding I am sure wil not graunt and so vnawares for gréedinesse of an vntruth out of tyme he quite ouerturneth his vntrue religion For the whole substance of his Masse is nothing else but this oblation and communion these be the additions of his Masse oblation communion and all the other vsages are referred vnto it without all which these foure wordes hoc est corpus meum are a perfite Masse as Mayster Harding himselfe and also his owne doctours do confesse In steede of many it shall be sufficient to alleage one Clingius a great doctour of Mayster Hardings writeth thus Essentiale Missae sunt veâ—ba Christi hoc est corpus meuÌ„ hic est sanguis meus c. omnia alia quae circa Missam fiunt vt orationes ceremoniae vestimeâ—ta gesta crucis signaculum c. non sunt Missa sed sunt ad maiestatem ornatum sacramenti ordinata vt cum omni gloriositate hoc officium Missae celebretur The substaunce of the Masse are these wordes of Christ this is my body this is my bloud c. all other things about the Masse as prayers ceremonies vestments gestures crosses and such other are not the Masse but are ordeined for the maiestie and ornaments of the sacrament that the Masse might be sayde with all gloriositie Now thys being true as most of their doctours confesse it is true what a monster will Mayster Harding make of his Masse that teacheth the whole substance of it to be but accideÌ„ts or as he calleth them addicions And thus much if it were true that M. Harding spake not but with addicion But nowe what if he make no such addicion what if he belie him selfe what if his plaine wordes be these euerye Masse is common is it not then a shame for him to say the wordes and then to get an vntruth â–ª or to mocke his reader Denie them againe read the .112 vntruth thou shalt sée these are his verye wordes I say not that euery priuate Masse is common but that euery Masse is common If these be his plaine and
it had neuer bene séene These hastie vntruthes haue yet little spéedy successe Let vs se the residue The. B. of Saris. That they were written in Greeke and not in Latine that they could be layde vp in secrecie for the space of a thousande fiue hundred yeare and more and no man misse them Harding The .20 vntruth They were knowne to the fathers Dering It was very wrangling to begin that vntruth which common sense doth teach vs had no falshoode in it to persue it that is great ouersight but to make two of it that is extréeme follie They were kept in secrecie sayth Maister Iuell these 1500 yeares and this is true they were not openly knowne as Maister Harding himselfe doth confesse therefore they were secrete and how could they haue béene secrete except some had hid them but why doth he not tell Maister Iuels tale hole They were not knowne saith he in these countries Maister Iuell himselfe as is aforesaide doth alleage Leo and Gelasius both Bishops of Rome and Bessarion a cardinall who all condemne the booke Reade the Replie good reader and thou shalt find it true and how could they haue done it if they had neuer séene the booke This wrangling this lying thys wicked Reioinder were it not that some ignorant man might beleue it it should not haue one worde aunswered But God deliuer vs from such contagious poison The B. of Saris. Saint Ierom by the report of Eusebius sayth certaine other bookes are abroade in the name of Clement as the disputation of Peter and Appion which bookes were neuer in vse among the fathers neyther containe they pure and apostolicall doctrine Harding The .21 vntruth Saint Ierom is falsified Dering It is reported of Brutus that he was woont to say he had spent his time euill that coulde denie nothing M Harding perhaps to eschew this blame hath prepared himself when it pleaseth him to denie any thing The fault that Maister Iuell here findeth with Clement is that by the testimonie of Saint Ierom his bookes are not pure and apostolicall It is neuer a worde so saith Maister Harding Saint Ierom is falsified If Brutus were now aliue peraduenture M. Harding might be commended But bicause Saint Iohn hath bid vs not to beléeue euery spirite euery bold asseueration must not stand for true Let vs sée what Ierom himself sayth and we shall iudge the better whether Maister Iuels report be true or no. Thus he writeth The olde writers haue quite reiected these other bookes ascribed to Clement And Eusebius in his third booke of the ecclesiasticall historie doth reproue them Now except Maister Harding will say that the Apostles writing is condemned of these olde writers and catholike fathers or that Eusebius that good bishop of Caesarea reproueth their doctrine Why will he not haue his Clement to be accounted not apostolicall whom the old fathers reiect and Eusebius reproueth The substaunce of such vntruthes doe make the gatherer appeare either ignorant or euill disposed Harding The .22 vntruth Dering Here Maister Harding maketh one vntruth ioyntly out of Saint Ierom and Eusebius where Maister Iuel saith Saint Ierom by the report of Eusebius saith thus c. M. Harding for the better multiplying of vntruthes saith first Saint Ierom sayth it not next Eusebius sayth it not thirdly they say it not Had he dwelt among the Lacedemonians for this great talke of vntruthes little reason in shewing them he should surely haue bene accounted for a babler If we graunt that his sayings are true yet are these thre but one vntruth and that not made by M. Iuell but by S. Ierom. Thus we sée when it pleaseth him he will not vnderstand neither the common phrase of speaking nor what is ment by plaine sayings Again when it pleaseth him he will vse more Logicke then either is true or honest Such a Proteus he is in his owne vnderstanding The. B. of Saris. Clement is condemned by Gelasius Harding The .23 vntruth It is not condemned by him Dering Nowe Maister Harding is come to his olde compasse He denieth he careth not what Nothing shall want a bold asseueration if his simple authoritie may proue any vntruth but let vs not trust him before we trie him so we shall knowe the better what Gelasius sayth His wordes are thus reported by Gracian We haue thought good to note certain bookes which are come to knowledge and ought to be auoyded of catholike people First the councell holden at Ariminum gathered by Constantine the Emperour the sonne of Constantinus by meane of Taurus lieutenant from thenceforth and for euer we iudge worthy to be condemned Likewyse the Iournall of Peter the Apostle bearing y e name of Clement Eight bookes are secrete vnlawfull writings Nowe consider with these wordes of Gelasius this booke which for his Masse sake M. Harding doth so much defende It goeth vnder the name of Clement so doth that which Gelasius condemneth It contayneth .viii. bookes and so doth that They are accoūted Apocrypha secret writings and so are the other Beside this Gelasius condemneth a booke called the Iournall of Peter and this Clement himselfe sayth that S Peter willed him to write that booke but yet vnder this title that it should be called the Iournall of Clement And to conclude those bookes condemned by Gelasius teach euill doctrine and so doth this Clement And shall Maister Hardings plaine wordes counteruaile so much likelihoode Well may those erre that néedes will be deceyued But among the louers of truth such vntruthes will be very odious The B. of Saris. Abdias was conuersant with Christ. Harding The .24 vntruth I say not he was conuersant with Christ. Dering Maister Harding may score vp his vntruthes after what sorte it pleaseth him but any indifferent man must needes thinke that Maister Iuell doth not falsifie his wordes when he layth them altogither euen as they are written If in repetition of any part of them he doe mistake the meaning such error deserueth verye little blame But bicause M. Harding is so farre driuen that if he should let slip euen the least aduauntage he shoulde sustaine great losse of his whole cause let vs examine all that is reproued and yéelde vnto the vtmost that may appéere faultie I say not saith he that Abdias was conuersant with Christ. But he sayth he saw Christ in the flesh and wrote diuers histories of the Apostles doings at which he himselfe was present of this to say he was conuersant with Christ is scarce worth the fault finding Yet maister Harding sayth stifly he onely sawe Christ in the flesh he was not conuersaunt with him By like he looked through the creuice with Eubulus when Christ helped Saint Basil to Masse and by that meanes Abdias could but sée him The B. of Saris. Lazius sayth that Saint Luke borrowed whole histories worde for worde out of Abdias Harding The .25 vntruth Lazius sayth not so Dering Here is first a very graue note in a weighty
not so Dering This is a proper vntruth Now by lyke Mayster Harding is non plus The B. of Saris. Thou seest Christian reader what doctours here be brought as maister Harding sayth to ground thy fayth and saluation vpon Harding The .42 vntruth I say not so Dering If Maister Iuell shoulde so misreport maister Hardings saying as he himselfe for his vntruthes sake doth commonly vse then had he good cause to crie out both of misconstruing and corruptions for he will say and vnsay and all with one breath for to séeke aduauntage Thus he sayth expressely he hath brought these authorities for y e confirmation of thy fayth And againe he hath brought these authorities for the stay of all christian mens beléefe Sée his booke thou shalt sée the words Thē why saith he not y t he bringeth these authorities to groūd thy saluation on or how could he without blushing note this vntruth There is no other difference in the sayings saue where Maister Iuell reporteth it to ground thy faith Maister Harding hath to stay and confirme thy fayth If here be any difference alway wrangling excepted let this be an vntruth And yet were there any Maister Harding speaketh plaine ynough in the confutation of the Apologie Thus he saith there Are not these trustie men to whome you maye commit the charge of your soules for your fayth and saluation These wordes I trow are plaine ynough to proue this no vntruth The. B. of Saris. It is the very expresse order of the Communion Harding The .43 vntruth It is not so Dering This vntruth maister Harding hath not in the text but hath wrested it out of the margine and bicause he thinketh that for the base matter it would be little regarded to make vs the more attentiue he beginneth with this admiration But what meaneth Maister Iuell c. But to quite Maister Hardings wonder I aske of him againe what meaneth he thus abruptly to rush into maister Stapletons possessions He hath taken vpon him to returne those vntruthes and whye doth maister Harding meddle where he hath no thank There be already a great many past which he hath not touched and why doth he out of season thus meddle with this If he thinke maister Stapleton hath returned it nothing cunningly I doe easily graunt that he is in déede a naughtie workeman if he thinke by his labour it shall appeare more beautifull I must néedes graunt his turning is much better but yet the matter it selfe is neuer a whit the truer And for as much as the thing must trie it selfe let vs somewhat better examine it Maister Harding sayth in the .5 diuision of his first booke that Ciril hath expounded the Masse vsed in Ierusalem Maister Iuell noteth this for the .12 vntruth saying that Ciril expounded the communion and not the Masse Maister Harding returneth this vntruth againe saying it was the Masse and not the Communion I might with as great facility denie this again and say it were the Communion and not the Masse But bycause my testimonie were in this not of weight I am content to be furthered with the witnesse of maister Stapleton Hée sayth plainely that maister Harding brought not this for proufe of the question and that it maketh nothing for priuate Masse But here Maister Harding saith that it was a Masse Therefore this vntruth gathered by maister Harding is answered thus by maister Stapleton that it is not so and tyll they agrée better a longer discourse of that place of Ciril is neyther profitable nor necessarie The B. of Saris. What if all these doctors testifie against maister Hardings Masse Harding The .44 vntruth They testifie not one vvorde against it Dering Maister Iuell alleageth Iames his Liturgie Abdias Iustinus Dionysius Basil Chrysostome and Ignatius reade the Replie fol. ii of all these saith maister Harding they be M. Iuels buts and therefore he will skip them ouer and not answere a worde neither rime nor reason What shamelesse demeanor is this in men that professe to séeke the truth if wée would doe the like howe soone woulde this Reioinder be aunswered It is an easie matter if this be ynough M. Harding must séeke better stuffe this will not serue Although in déede it be true that this Reioinder is all false and vngodly stuffe yet séeing christian people are so euill disposed the falsehoode of this stuffing must be in some part disclosed Howe much then should this discredit maister Hardings religion against so expresse authoritie to make so slender aunswere The B. of Saris. Hippolytus was lately set abroade in print about seuen yeares past before neuer acquainted in the worlde Harding The .45 vntruth He was well knowne before Dering That man is well knowen of whom most men haue heard or with whome many be acquainted Now howe proueth M. Harding this Hippolytus is well knowne Saint Ierom saith he named him Surely this is a very small acquaintaunce to be named but of one man in all the worlde Yet not thys bastard Hippolytus but that other bishop and martyr is named of Saint Ierom. Such vntruthes haue great sauor of enuie or of folly or of both Sith maister Iuell sayth that Hippolytus was neuer acquainted in the worlde and Maister Harding doth shew but only that Saint Ierom did name him This vntruth if truth were wel regarded should surely haue bene spared Howe be it I graunt not onely Ierom named Hippolitus but other many Eusebius speaketh of him so doth Theodoretus and alleageth diuers sayings out of hys bookes Gelasius Epiphanius and Niciphorus also haue named him and yet all these had but small acquaintance with him Eusebius and Ierom and Theodorete knewe not where he was bishop Gelasius sayth he was a bishop in Arabia Nicephorus saith he was bishop of Ostia a hauen towne in Italy Ierom sayth Origene was stirred vp by emulation of Hippolitus yet it appeareth by sundrie recordes that Origene was made bishop of Alexandria .x. yeares before Hippolytus did write By this it appeareth that y e true Hippolytus was not long since well knowne in the world so that were this booke good yet maister Iuell sayd true But how good it is and how vnworthy the name of Hippolytus read the Replie and thou shalt well perceyue Beside this the booke by M. Harding alleged entituled de cōsummatione mundi is not once mencioned neither by Ierome nor Eusebius nor Theodorete where they make especial menciō of Hippolytus bookes then I trow we may say truely this is no vntruth The B. of Saris. He beginneth the first sentence of his booke with enim Harding The .46 vntruth He beginneth otherwise Dering Here Maister Harding maketh himselfe merie with wondring at Gréeke readers and scholemaisters musing howe they could haue béene so ignorant But may it please maister Albutius that so faine would be a Grecian to remember the Gréeke saying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to laugh out of season is a great miserie Had this defence
declaration of this frée mercy he reporteth it oftentimes that we are giuen vnto him of his Father as manifestaui nomen tuum ijs quos dedisti mihi I haue made knowne thy name vnto those which thou hast giuen me and tui erant mihi dedisti eos and omnia quae dedisti mihi a te sunt and serua eos quos dedisti mihi All things that thou hast giuen me are from thée Kéepe them that thou hast giuen me They were thine and thou hast giuen them me And that we should know that to be giuen to Christ is to be ioyned vnto him he addeth vt sint vnum sicut nos that they may be one as we are one This is also proued by all suche places of Scripture as shew that we be saued by grace Thus we sée our ioyning vnto God is first to be giuen vnto Iesus Christe of his Fathers owne good will And this is on Gods behalfe the eternall secrete purpose whereby we be made his The other way whereby we be made his is Faithe of his worde when by inspiration of the holy Ghost we apprehend in Christ the frée loue of his Father and that héereby we be ioyned vnto God it is in like manner often declared by the Scripture Now are you cleane saith Christ through the word which I haue spoken vnto you And in an other place I haue giuen vnto them the woords which thou gauest me and they haue receiued them and haue knowne surely that I came out from thée and haue beléeued that thou hast sent me Likewise Ioh. 16.27 Ioh. 17.14 I haue giuen them thy worde Againe sanctifie them with thy truthe thy worde is the truthe And to the ende we should all know this instruction were oures our Sauior saith further I pray not for these alone but for them also which shall beleue in me through their worde And now for proofe that this is our ioyning vnto God it foloweth that they all may be one as thou O Father art in me and I in thée euen that they may be also one in vs. This manner of ioyning vs vnto God was shewed vnto Iacob in that vision where he saw a ladder reaching from the earthe to heauen and Angels going vp and downe teaching vs that Christ was likewise the ladder by whome we climed vp and were ioyned to his Father This was likewise shewed in the thirde of Mathevve where the Heauens are opened and the holy Ghost descended vpon Christ signifying that he hath reconciled heauen and earth and ioyned vs againe vnto God and we by faith made partakers of that benefite Thus we sée the manner of our ioyning vnto God first in his eternal secrete purpose after apprehended of vs by faithe Now this standing thus that the promise might be certaine vnto all the séede God hath sealed this hope with the body bloud of Christ that we being partakers of those heauenly mysteries might assure our conscience of his eternall mercy that the gates of Hell should no more preuaile against vs. Thus are our Sacraments signes tokens warrantes gages pledges of our saluation and doe not as M. Harding teacheth ioyne vs vnto God but he sayth further they poure into vs life immortall and dothe boldly affirme it yet we may not beleue him without great preiudice to Christ himselfe I tel you plaine saithe M. Harding they put into vs eternall life but Christ saith I know that Gods commaundement is euerlasting life and to put it out of doubt what commaundement he meaneth he saith in an other place this is eternall life that they know thée to be the only very God and whom thou hast sent Iesus Christ. Then faith ioineth vs vnto God faithe putteth in to vs life Not in all Gods word there is one line whereby it may appeare this is wrought by the Sacrament Now resteth the second point to be considered whether the Sacraments containe grace and in déede hinc illae lachrymae Hereof maister Harding complaining came as the common Prouerbe is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Whē he heard y e name of Sacraments he could not but gape after this Popish heresie This is a religious article in the Popes kingdome that Sacraments doe giue grace but what they doe it is sufficiently already declared beside that their names doe sufficiently beare witnesse of their efficacie They be called Testaments or couenaunts which cannot be the thing it selfe but the pledge of our iustification In Baptisme if Christ doe not baptise with fire and with the holy Ghost the water of regeneration doth not auaile Therfore S. Paule saith ye that are baptised into Christ haue put on Christ. By which one sentence all M. Hardings doctrine is ouerthrowne For neither the water ioyneth vs vnto God neither yet giueth vs grace but that is wrought only by our faith in Christ. And therfore S. Paule writeth of Circumcision that Abraham was first iustified and after receiued the signe of Circumcision as this seale of the rightuousnesse of faith which he had whē he was vncircumcised By all this it is manifest that grace is first giuen vs fréely from aboue and then the Sacrament is lefte vnto vs as a warrant that Gods promisse shall be fulfilled Thus we sée that touching the Sacramentes M. Iuel saithe nothing otherwise than the Scripture teacheth and the vntruthe that M. Harding would so faine note is nothing else but his owne heresie And now for as muche as M. Harding hath called vs into so long a discourse of Gods Sacraments I desire of thée good Christian reader to marke indifferently the great difference in this behalf betwene the Christian and the papall Religion thou wilt soone as I doubt not abhorre their great deprauing of Christes institution which in that sinagoge is so miserably rent in pieces that scarce any parte of it is kept inuiolate Christ did institute his supper for this purpose that he might Communicate with his disciples They appoint their Masses that they may receiue alone Christ in his supper was the only offerer they in their Masses will offer as wel as he Christ blessed with giuing thanks they blesse with making Crosses Christ did Consecrate with the preaching of the word of faithe they doo Consecrate with whisperings and breathings Christ said take and eate this is my body they say neither take nor eate yet it is his body Christs Disciples sate downe and eate it they bid vs fall downe and worship it Christ said he would drinke no more of the fruite of the vine they say there is no fruit of the vine at all Christ saithe drinke ye all of this they say drinke no man but the Priest alone Christ saith doe this in my remembraunce that is shew forthe my death vntill I come they of Christes death and passion doe not preache a worde I will prosecute this repugnancie no further It greueth me to remember their opē sacriledge God turne
their hearts and giue them vnderstanding that they may once know and confesse that his Religion may not thus be framed to mannes fansie so in the latter day when they shall be accomptable for their doings they may be vnblameable in the sight of the highest The B. of Saris. He saith Communion is so called of that we Communicate togither Harding The .79 vntruthe He saith not together Dering It is a very strange propertie not to be ashamed to speake manifestly against the knowne signification of any worde it is muche more straunge to speake against it placed in suche a sentence where of force the signification must be graunted but it is moste straunge of all and in manner a singulare impudencie to note it for any vntruthe in one that will not so shamelesly speake without reason as an other dothe Such an vntruthe as this is it which now we haue in hand 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is well knowne to signifie to Communicate together in the same time and place And in this sentence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Héere to say it can signifie any other thing it is very ignorant boldenesse But to note it for an vntruthe as maister Harding dothe it is bothe to be past shame and past grace The worde is well knowne that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do signifie a cōmunitie of any thing together and therefore they be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which may haue felowship with the Congregation and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be in felowship with any man And bicause that Mercurie is sayd to be the messenger of the Pagane goddes to tell their errandes from them to any man therefore he is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hauing a proper name of his proper office in that by him the Ethnikes did thinke they were made partakers of their gods counsell by which the propertie of this worde appeareth And consider good Reader what manner of Communion it is that M. Harding would make when the Priest saith Masse in the Church and calleth no body vnto him yet he sayth that al the Priestes in the world which say Masse at the same time doe Communicate with him and be made one body of Christe togither Héere I aske of M. Harding how he agréeth with S. Paule y t saith we are one bread one body bicause we all are partakers of one bread Marke reader because we eate of one bread we become one body saith S. Paule Bicause we say Masse at one time we become one body saith M. Harding though we eate not at all of the same breade Sure these two Doctoures doe not agrée S. Paule saith moreouer the bread which we break is it not the Cōmunion of the body of Christ M. Harding saith though we breake not the same bread but be eche one of vs by our selues at our altares yet it is the Communion of the body of Christ. Thus we sée S. Paule and M. Harding teache not bothe one Doctrine But it is no meruaile they are not guided bothe with one spirit S. Paule speaketh truthe and M. Harding falshead S. Paule the worde of God and master Harding his owne fansies as for this Communion of M. Hardings it was neuer knowne in the Church of God I remember there is a great bragger in Martial maketh euen suche an other he had euer in his mouth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 All things are common among frendes but saying thus so often when he would neuer bestow any thing among his neighbors the Poet saith this is a very straunge Communion Das nihil dicis Candide 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So it goeth with M. Harding he euer saith of his Masse it is common it is common but he saith it only he calleth no man vnto him Sure say what he will this is but craking Candidus his Communion God be praised that we are deliuered from it And thus it appeareth it is no vntruthe to say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to Communicate together ▪ as well bicause the worde it selfe is plaine as for that the scripture teacheth that the Communion must be so administred The B. of Saris. Basil reporteth an Ecclesiasticall Decree or Canon that at the receiuing of the holy Communion which he called mysticum Pascha there ought to be .xij. persones at the least and neuer vnder Harding The .80 vntruthe It is no Ecclesiasticall decree Dering M. Harding in this place is farre gone He is wont to controll very curiously false quotation in this place onlesse my boke deceiue me he is much ouerséene For I think it is in asceticis sermone primo Whether it bewell quoted or no it is truely reported S. Basils words are these Quemadmodum spiritualis lex non vult eos esse infra numerum duodenarium qui mysticum pascha edere debeant c. Euen as the spirituall or Ecclesiasticall decrée will not haue vnder twelue that shuld eate the mysticall passeouer c. Loe. S. Basil sayth it is an Ecclesiasticall Decrée Yet M. Harding saith it is no Decrée Beleue him not henceforth before thou trie him And the Doctors words wer as sone changed as he is redy to deny or affirme at aduentures thou couldest be sure of nothing but it is well the truthe doth not hang vpon his report Let him say while he will it is no decrée S. Basils wordes are plaine it is spiritualis lex If M. Harding had not made wrangling his hope in these vntruthes this had not bene numbred He may as well blame the Euangelistes for alleaging the Prophets And no doubt if M. Iuell should follow the faithfull sense as the Euangelists doe and let passe words Maister Harding would finde fiue lies in one line Such truthe he vseth in these vntruthes The B. of Saris◠It appeareth by S. Augustine and certaine olde Canons that in the Primatiue church the Priest and people sometime did Communicate after supper Harding The .81 vntruthe The .11 diuision It appeareth not Dering This vntruthe is sone answered For M. Harding graunteth that it appeareth by s. Augustine some receiued on Maūdie thursday after supper but saith he that is not sometime For saith he he that saith somtime meaneth oftner than once a yeare Now if it were possible that once a yeare might be sometime then were it necessary that M. Harding did wrangle But bicause once a yeare is no time let vs sée if it may be proued that it was done oftner First whether it be or no S. Augustine is at a point and saith faciat quisque quod in ea Ecclesia in quam venerit inuenit Let euery one doe after the custome of that Church in which he cōmeth it appertaineth neither vnto faith nor vnto good maners therefore whether a man receiue the Cōmunion fasting or no so he receiue in the Lord it skilleth not muche Now what they haue done in the primatiue Church let vs as I haue said enquire It appereth in
certaine olde Fathers force it muche which words folow immediatly Reade his Replie Then what shame is it to ascribe that to M. Iuel for an vntruthe which him selfe did neuer speake nor meane Belike these vntruthes goe slowly forward when M. Harding is enforced to chalenge that which was neuer sayd The B. of Saris. Neither Christ nor any of his Disciples euer gaue commaundement of it neither was it at any time vniuersally receiued Harding The .92 vntruthe Christ commaunded it The .93 vntruthe It hath bene vniuersally receiued Dering Note good reader this hasty quoting of vntruthes and the slender profe and thou shalt soone espie that M. Harding hath more desire of his number than regarde of any substaunce Héere are two vntruthes in a line The first Christ saith he commaunded that water should be mingled with the wine This bolde asseueration concerning Christes doing doth ask a sure proofe For bothe we were vnthankful if we would not folow his doing and the daunger were great in leauing his example But in all the Euangelists it is plaine that our Sauior Christ commaunded no such thing Then how doeth M. Harding proue this Forsoth saithe he Cyprian and the sixth generall councell séeme to say it came from the Apostles But bicause this is but a gesse and little worth he alleageth Clement who saithe plainely Christ did it and this beginneth to describe his ministration of the cup. Likewise mingling the cup of wine and water and Consecrating it he gaue it vnto them c. Now if this Clement be of good aucthoritie the matter is cleare But M. Iuel hath already shewed that his authoritie is no more worthe than Abdias Hippolytus Amphilochius and his other felowes and héere himself doth quite confound himself in that otherwise then all the Euangelists and S. Paule doe he describeth a new fashion of the Lords supper S. Paule saithe he that preacheth any other Gospel than this let him be accursed This of Clements is an other Gospel thaÌ„ Paule preached and therefore in this great light of the true Gospel that now shineth accursed be he that will folowe all Clements doctrine Sith therfore this is the proofe of this vntruthe Clement saith it this shalbe our aunswere for the discharge of it Master Iuel saith nay a man of more learning better religion godlier life and greater credite than euer y e bastard Clement was The second vntruth héere noted is that it hath bene generally receiued to poure water in the wine Yet Scotus saith it is not necessary as M. Iuel hath shewed And likewise so saith Thomas certain other Also Mary couÌ„terâ—et Pope Alexander in his first Decretall Epistle saith it must be done bicause bothe came out of Christes side But let these doctors go This I grauÌ„t that Iustinus Martyr Iraeneus and Cyprian who aboue other in this are most earnest do all séeme to enforce it but bicause the scripture hathe not expressed it we must beware how we make it necessary and for that occasion though in the Latine church it be very auncient yet in our Church we doe not vse it But for this vntruth where M. Harding saithe it hathe bene generally receiued that is more rashly affirmed than sufficiently proued Scotus saythe that in his time the Gréekes vsed it not long before him the people of Armenia vsed it not as appeareth in this sixth generall councell alleaged by M. Harding and by sundry other recordes and further many yeares before that time Chrysostome said of those words of our sauior Christ I will drinke no more of the fruit of the vine c. that he would with those words take away the pernitious heresie of suche as vsed water in the mysteries Yet saith M. Harding it hath bene generally receiued With as good a â—orage and as muche truthe as Pope Eugenius saith the same but he must pardon vs he may not score vp vntruthes vpon his owne credite we wil neither beleue the Pope nor him neither except they bring their proofes And thus muche of this vntruthe The B. of Saris. M. Harding saith this mixture is necessary to the sacrament Harding The .94 vntruthe I say not it is necessary Dering Euen now he said it was commaunded by Christ nowe he saith it is not necessary Marke well his sayings and lay them together and thou shalt easily consider of these vntruthes if we likewise thought Christes commaundement not necessary to be obserued when he saith accipite edite We might aforde M. Harding his priuate Masse The B. of Saris. Scotus saith it is not necessary Harding The .95 vntruthe Scotus saith not so Dering Wel said yet Anaxagoras snow is not white Scotus hath the very words sée the place in 4. sent dist 11. q. 6. Now coÌ„cerning this mingling of wine water bicause so many vntruthes are made about it it shall not be amisse to speake somwhat of it First as touching these meÌ„ theÌ„selues how they are affected we may partly gather by these vntruthes in the .94 vntruth M. Iuel saith that M. Harding maketh this mixture necessary It is not so saith M. Harding I say not it is necessary In this vntruth M. Iuel saith y t Scotus maketh this mixture not necessary It is not so saith M. Hard he maketh it necessary By this it is plaine y t Scotus M. Harding do not agrée But it may be that these hasty vntruthes want some coÌ„sideration Let that aduauntage goe and let vs consider the thing We haue no expresse commaundement for it That Christe gaue only wine it may wel appeare by that is written I wil drink no more of this fruit of the vine c. for the vsage of it if it were left frée it might be had but when they made it a matter of such waight it was necessary to stop y e great outrage But let vs sée how they proue that this mixture shold be made of wine and water Quia vtrumque ex Christi latere profluxisse dicitur bicause bothe issued out of Christes side True it is water and bloud issued out of Christ side but this is a poore reason to mingle water and wine in this Sacrament when Christ did celebrate his supper before his precious side was pearced That which S. Iohn testifieth héere that water and bloud issued out of his side the same he writeth in his Epistle that Christ came with water and bloud Teaching vs héereby that Christ is the true satisfaction for our sinnes and the true water of regeneration to make vs cleane and without spot before his father For the forgiuenesse of our sinnes and the purifying of our soules were figured in the lawe by sacrifices and by washings In y e sacrifices the bloud did purge sinnes and was the attonement appointed to pacifie Goddes wrathe The washings were testimonies of the true cleanenesse of the minde and remedies to doe away the filthinesse of our fleshe Now least our faith
iustifie them or were not silence the best aunswere to so great folies Let the Reader iudge The B. of Saris. If no bodie receiued then is it not true that some receiued Harding The .196 vntruth Chrisostome saith not that some receiued Dering If the last vntruthe were not worth the noting then what store hath he that is faine to number it twice Yet so it is this purposed number hath driuen M. Harding to such inconuenience The former vntruthe was Chrisostome said not some receiued with the priest this is he saith not some receiue if he would make the third that some receiue not with it had euen as good reason as either of these But let these vntruthes alone they cannot doe much harme Onely I must admonish thée that after this long ado with Maister Iuel Maister Harding for his exercise will fights little with him selfe Here he saith that Chrisostome saith not that some receiue yet out of this same place of Chrisostome alleaging these wordes Cum timore dei et fide et dilectione accedite he doeth english them thus come you vp to receiue with the feare of God c. These cōtrary sayings without one vntruth cannot be reconciled If there he wel translated it come vp to receiue then this is no vntruth If this be vntrue then that was a false translation One of these can not be denied The B. of Saris. He saith the people in the Cities were daylie taught by sermons Harding The .197 vntruthe I say not so let my booke be iudge Dering Maister Harding by like doth say and vnsay and careth not what he say These are his verie wordes Now if Chrisostome had cause to complaine of the peoples slacknesse in that great and populous citie of Antioche where the scriptures were daily expounded and preached c. And here I say as Maister Harding saith let his booke be iudge And why then is this vntruth scored vp with other Would he haue vs think that this preaching were onely in Antioche and no where else This might well be if papistrie hadde ben then in vre and preaching not regarded But to think it of that world in which good religion florished and Gods word was plentifull it is an vncharitable gessing Thus much I speake graunting Maister Hardings wordes that in Antioche the people were daily taught And then if it were so the same vse had ben likewise kept in other cities so Maister Hardings owne wordes going for true this can be no vntruth but how true those wordes are Maister Iuel doeth sufficiently proue reade his Replie he doeth alleage Chrysostomes owne wordes to proue that in Antioche they had sermons but once a wéeke and therevpon he saith further thus The B. of Saris. I note this not for that I mislike of daily preaching but for that vntruth so boldelie presumed should not passe vntouched Harding The .198 vntruth It is no vntruth Dering I am sorie to trouble the reader with aunswering to so vaine vntruthes but so it is if nothing should be said they would be thought of some force Maister Harding vseth this reason to proue his priuate Masse In Antiochie there was but a verie few to communicate sometime Therfore in the countrey belike there was priuate Masse Of this argument Maister Iuel saith thus to aduaunce the citie to abase the countrey he saith in cities they had dayly sermons but this is vntrue For in Antioche they had not so Now rise M. Hardings two vntruthes 1. I say not they were taught so in cities 2. They were taught so in Antioche Who could haue scraped out these vntruthes but he Or what force is there in them For this second vntruth where he still affirmeth they had dayly preaching in Antioche that is a very false lie and yet how impudently doth be persist in it The B. of Saris. Yet saith Maister Harding in small countrey churches either the Priest let cease the dayly sacrifice or else he receiued alone Harding The .199 vntruth I say not so This is altogether falsified Dering I pray God Maister Harding be not altogether without grace He so vnreuerently speaketh euill of authoritie so boldely denieth his owne sayings that his cause is much to be feared Marke here Maister Iuels wordes I will lay M. Hardings wordes with them then iudge whether here be any vntruth Thus he writeth of such countrey churches it must be sayd that either the sacrifice ceased c. Or that the memorie of our Lords death was oftentimes celebrated of the Priestes in the daily oblation without tarying for others to communicate with them Marke now how Maister Iuel chaungeth these wordes either the daily sacrifice ceased saith Maister Harding either the priest let cease the daily sacrifice saith Maister Iuell What is here falsified If it dyd cease the Priest ceased it For I trow the lay man might not say Masse if he would The other péece of Maister Hardings saying is this or else the memorie of our Lords death was often times celebrated of the priestes in the daily oblation without tarying for other to communicate with them These many words bicause oftedious writing Maister Iuell reporteth this or the priest receiued alone Now iudge of this place which Maister Harding saith is altogether falsified and praye that Maister Harding may once haue eies to sée The .200 vntruth Here Maister Harding noteth an vntruth in the margin that is not in the text When he telleth vs what it is we will better examine it The B. of Saris. The Masse that is so glorious can neither be founde in churches nor chappels Harding It is found both in churches and chappels Dering It is not yet found neither in church nor chappell within .600 yeares of Christ. The B. of Saris. Thus saith Chrysostome if thou stand by and not receiue thou art malapert thou art shamelesse thou art impudēt 2. thine eies be vnworthie the sight herof vnworthie be thine eares 3. O thou wilt say I am vnworthie to be partaker of the holie mysteries then art thou vnworthie to be partaker of the praiers 4. Thou maist no more stay here than an heathen that ueuer was christened Harding The .202 vntruthe Chysostome doeth not say these vvordes The .203 vntruthe Chrysostome saith not then an heathen vnchristened Dering Sure good Reader the numbring of these vntruthes is verie straunge here is one Chrysostome saith not these wordes an other he saith not then an heathen c. I would faine know here in the first vntruth what Maister Harding meaneth by these words If he meane the whole sentence why maketh he an other truth If he meane all the sentence going before this latter vntruth why doeth he not make of it thrée seuerall vntruthes For it is distinguished into thrée seuerall sentences or if he think but one of those sentences is false why doeth he not tell vs which it is Certaine it is Maister Harding did know that these former partes of this allegation were all true
Yet bicause they had so many members he thought he might conuey one vntruth verie well amongst them For the truth of this allegation reade S. Chrysostome hom 3. ad Ephe. and thou shalt beleue thine owne sences I will alleage for thée certaine words Reade y e place thou shalt finde moe Thus be saith of those that are by and will not receiue 1. Tu vero impudenter astas thou standest by verie impudently 2. quisquis mysteriorum particeps non est impudens est et improbus si adstat he that is present and will not communicate he is impudent and wicked 3. Indigni sunt videntium oculi indignae aures thine eies are not worthy to see it thine eares are not worthie to heare it 4. Nihil hic tibi qùā cathecumeno plus licet Thou hast no more to do here thē cathecumeni they that are vnchristened and not yet brought to the perfect faith of Christ here is this second vntruth also proued Marke now these wordes and sée whether Maister Iuel report any thing that Chrysostom saith not Thē Maister Harding with shame enough hath noted these vntruths and for his these words except he meane his owne wordes here can be none found that are not in the author Ad. Eph. hom 3. and make but little for his Masse The B. of Saris. Chrysostome saith in vaine doe we come to offer the daylie sacrifice in vaine doe we stand at the alter meaning thereby as may appeare that if he saide priuate Masse for lacke of companie it was in vaine Harding The .140 vntruth These are not Chrysostomes vvordes nor this his meaning Dering Here M. Hard. séemeth to be somewhat more liberall in numbring his vntruths he might well haue made two vntruthes of this one these are not Chrysostomes wordes an other this is not his mening Sure he is not wont to let go such aduantage but peraduēture he saw here so little hope that he would be content with one vntruthe quietlie Yet bicause we defende the truth we may not alow him that First for Chrysostomes wordes thus they are Frustra habetur quotidiana oblatio frustra stamus ad altare In vaine doe we offer the daylie sacrifice in vaine doe we stande at the altar Here is this vntruth verified concerning the words say Maister Harding what he say will If these be not the wordes then accompt me for a lier If they be the wordes then iudge of the vntruth as touching y e meaning of these wordes were it not for Maister Hardings faultfinding it shold sure haue escaped without blame he saith y e meaning is this it is in vaine as touching the people not as touching the Priest this meaning is vntrue for Chrysostome saith Frustra stamus we that be the ministers stande there in vaine But for my parte I would this distinction were good then we should know throughly what marchandise these Masses were Saith M. Haridng they are in vaine for the people except they come and receiue Good Lorde how do they then mock the people that teach them to come dayly and gase vpon their Masses blessed be truth that breaketh out All priuate Masse is ill and all Masse gasers doe wickedlie the frute of Gods sacraments are not applied to those that will not come and be partakers of them If Maister Harding haue lost so much of his cause by noting one vntruth in this place what would he haue done if he had noted a couple The B. of Saris. Here Maister Hardyng seing that his Masse euen by his owne testimonie is shreudly crackt assayeth to salue it as well as he may Harding The .205 vntruth I see not that the Masse is crackt Dering In this vntruth we haue two things to note Maister Hardings sight and the cracking of his Masse As touching his sight I can say little But I doe easely beleue it is not verie good There are a great many authorities in this first article which he can not sée to aunswere one whit sometime two or thrée leaues together in which he can not sée to cōfute one word His owne writings are so ful of darknesse and cloudes of errours that he can not sée to come nigh the truth and yet in this great shadowe of his eies he proueth effectually the common prouerbe who is so bold as blinde bayard For the cracking of his Masse he can say but little onely in defence of that mishapen strumpet he vseth vncomly language against the Bishop of Sarisburie But how can a wicked cause be better defended than with euill speaking For his Lady Missa she is as she is Thanks be to God for the victorie she is well crackt of late she hath glorified hir selfe and liued in pleasure she hath ben full of triūphes signes of victorie she hath dwelt carelesse in hir fensed cities she hath said in hir heart I am none else I am no widow I shall sée no morning Now whether this glorie be yet crackt or no and these proude pecocks feathers falne downe hir owne heauie lookes doe sufficiently witnesse Hir widowhed commeth fast vpon hir and manie of hir louers are run away hir owne barrennesse increaseth daily and hir children wax few in number the multitude of hir diuinations haue brought euill vpon hir hir fornications and idolatries haue seperated betwene God and hir And can Maister Harding yet think that his Masse is still vncracked hir dominions were verie large wide and hir kingdomes plentifull hir buildings were costly verie sumptuous and hir cofers rich hir apparell was gorgious of nedel worke set out in most pleasant colours hir ornaments of inameled golde bewtifull with manie iewlls and precious stones and for the full measure of hir accomplished glorie she had the Princes of the earth to minister hir cuppes vnto hir Kings to be hir waiting seruants and Emperours to hold hir fotestoole If this estate were yet in hir woūted royaltie then might Maister Harding well say that his Masse were not cracked Now seing all is lost hir buildings are pulled downe hir fortresses batered hir treasuries spoiled her estimation lost and she hir selfe set without the quire we giue thankes vnto God that hath giuen this victorie and we are sorie for Maister Hardings blindnesse that can not yet sée how his Masse is crackt The B. of Saris. If none communicate yet saith he the Masse is not vaine in it selfe but onely as touching the people that will not come Harding The .206 vntruth I say not so Dering Here M. Hard. willing to stop that great inconuenience that riseth of his .204 vntruth maketh a flat deniall of his owne wordes and lest this contrarietie should bréed any péece of discredit he goeth about with a distinction to salue the whole matter whereby he hath got this double commoditie a plaister for his Masse which before he hadde wounded an vntruthe to make vp his proposed number And his distinction is this I say not y t the Masse
in the congregation receiueth alone Theophylacte a later wryter vpon the same place saith Why should we pray our selues Quia haudquaquam meritò id mysterium sumunt multi bicause many do receiue that mysterie nothing worthely By all these Doctors this place is ment of the Communion S. Ambrose saith It any man be impacient domi terreno pane pascatur Let him eate earthly bread at home And againe we come to gether vt multorum oblatio simul celebretur that the Oblation of many might be made together But S. Ambrose calleth not prophane meats suche as their common feasts were either heauenly bread or our oblation S. Chrysostome saith qui hoc non faciunt indigne communicant they that tary not one for an other doe communicate vnworthily And héere againe we sée this Doctors minde of priuate Masse or as M. Harding wil haue it of the priestes sole receiuing Beda saith likewise alleaging S. Augustine Ad Ianuar. Epist. 1. that this which the Apostle writeth in this place is ment of the Communion S. Ierome also dothe so enterprete it Read all these vpon the xj chapter of the first Epistle to the Corinthians Of the same minde are also Augustine Basil Gregorius Romanus And if thou rest vpon the aucthoritie of men examine all the olde Doctors that haue written vpon the same place not them only but suche as are of yonger age as Thomas Scotus Lyra Hugo gloss ordinaria and suche other They all agrée this saying of S. Paule tary one for an other is ment of the Communion Dionysius Carthusianus on the same place speaketh very plaine when ye come together to eate saith S. Paule Panem coelestem saith Dionysius the heaueÌ„ly bread videlicet corpus Domini that is to say the body of the Lord. And Nicholas of Gorram vpon these woordes tary one for an other wryteth thus Docet modum in hora communionis ordinate accedendo he teacheth howe to come orderly in the time of Communion What plainer aucthoritie can there be than these Who séeth not that all antiquitie haue vnderstande S. Paules words of the Communion If thou search them thine eyes shall be thy witnesse Yet saithe maister Harding as he were priuiledged without blame or discredite to speake what he would that Martyr Caluine Cranmer and suche other haue deceiued maister Iuel but it is wonderfull to sée howe he speaketh against the truthe the Lord knoweth whether against his owne conscience Read the Replie Fol. 94. thou shalt further sée â–ª how in the Communion the people came togither But as touching this place bicause the spirite of God is not tied to any man or age we will leaue our witnesses and examine the place First S. Paule blameth them bicause they come togither not with profite but with hurt And then teaching how they ought to come togither and in what sorte to haue their méetings he teacheth them by the example of our sauior Christ and his doctrine saying â–ª that which I haue receiued of the Lord that I haue deliuered vnto you that Iesus Christ in y e same night y t he was betrayed tooke bread c. making a full description of the Lords supper whereunto be adioyneth for this cause many of you are weak c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For this cause which is the vnorderly receiuing the communion Yet saith M. Harding it is ment of their feastes After this it dothe folow in Paule Wherfore my brethren when you come togither to eate tary one for an other Now if this be not yet plaine inough that he meaneth of the Sacrament then looke what foloweth an vndoubted proofe of the whole matter Least saith S. Paule you come togither to your condemnation Is this at any time pronounced of any manner eating but of the vnworthy eating of that blessed sacrament Yet for the priuate Masse sake this plaine scripture must be denyed and impudently wrested into a straunge sense And marke héere how maister Harding would haue S. Paule reason the woordes before are plaine of the Lordes supper Of those words S. Paule concludeth wherefore my brethren c. Then by maister Hardings meaning S. Paule should reason thus A man must prepare him selfe to receiue the Communion Ergo they must tary one for an other at their common feastes such lose arguments the spirite of truth doth not vtter But suche is M. Hardings fashion he dothe not consider how he wresteth Gods scripture while he thus defendeth his vngodly Masse The B. of Saris. The like decrees are found vnder the names of Calixtus Anacletus Martinus Hyllarius and others by which it is certain that the whole church then receiued togither Harding The .221 vntruthe It is not certaine by those decrees Dering Sée the .151 vntruthe It is the same in effecte that this is But let vs sée héere also how truely M. Harding speaketh It doeth not appeare by these decrées saith he that all receiued togither this shall be best tried by the words of the Decrées Calixtus saith thus When consecration is done let all communicate which will not be excluded out of the Churche Anacletus hath the very selfe same woords but how it cometh to passe let the Decretal epistles sée that haue this agréement very often and yet it is very straunge that diuers menne should speake the same woordes Hylarius saythe if thy sinnes be not so great that thou must be excommunicate thou must not seperate thy selfe from the body and bloude of the Lorde Martinus sayth If any man heare the scriptures readen and of a superstitious minde doe thinke he should not Communicate sette him be excommunicate now iudge whether these decrées teach that the whole church should receiue together M. Harding can answere nothing but bringeth two distinctions one olde one which we had before in the .151 vntruthe an other he maketh more to answere Pope Hilarie and that is this where Hilarie saith If he be not excommunicate let him not abstaine from the sacrament We may abstaine saith M. Harding sacramentally though not spiritually If these distinctions may be alowed ther is no aucthoritie so good but let M. Harding slip and he wil answer it But S. Paule saith take héede y t no man spoile you through Philosophy and vaine deceit The B. of Sarisb Chrysostome saith we are all of one worthinesse to receiue the mysteries Harding The .222 vntruthe He saith not so Dering These are Chrysostomes words Est autem vbi nihil differt sacerdos a subdito vt quaÌ„do fruendum est horrendis mysterijs Similiter enim omnes vt illa percipiamê° digni habemur there is a time saith he when the priest dothe differ nothing from the lay man as when they must enioy the dreadful mysteries For we are al accompted of like worthinesse to receiue them And that we should not doubt of his meaning he maketh afterward along discourse to proue this same Yet saith master Harding it is false it is vntrue Chrysostome saith
not we are all of like worthinesse to receiue the mysteries And what saith he else How doeth M. Harding otherwise interprete him Forsoth saith he these woords similiter omnes vt illa percipiamus digni habemur must be thus Englished We are accompted worthy of the selfe same things in like sort not we are all of one worthinesse to receiue them Who hath hearde one in so graue a matter speake so childishly the very woords of Chrysostome vt percipiamus he wil not haue Englished as they lie And bicause M. Iuel doth so English them suche is his impudencie he notes it for an vntruthe But suche to whome God hath giuen the spirite of knowledge and truth they will confesse how he doeth wrangle and if he haue any grace himselfe as oft as he remembreth these vntruthes he wisheth they were againe vnder his file The B. of Saris. Missa in the time of Tertullian and Cyprian was especially applied vnto the Communion Harding The .223 vntruthe It is not so as you meane Dering M. Hard. harpeth much on M. Iuels meaning But vntruths must not be built vpon gesses Read the .169 vntruthe The B. of Saris. Cataechumeni were present at the Communion till the Gospell was done Harding The .224 It was not the Communion they were present at Dering I graunt it wrangle on M. Iuel confesseth when the Gospel was done they were bid depart what a single vntruthe is this What troweth M. Harding we doe not know that that part of seruice which they heard was called Missa cathechumenorum Or doeth he thinke that the gospel was not red in that seruice This vntruthe ariseth bicause he wil not vnderstand not bicause he doeth not M. Iuel calleth that the Communion which was the whole seruice appointed for the celebration of the Lordes supper At the beginning whereof the Nouices in the faithe of Christ might be present till the deacon cried Exeunto catechumeni which was after the gospell was red The B. of Saris. We pray not aide of sicke folkes for the proofe of our holy Communion as M. Harding is driuen to doe for his Masse Harding The .225 vntruthe I proue not the Masse by them Dering This vntruthe is before sixe times Read the .215 vntruthe ¶ Thus are we come to an ende of this weary Reioinder wherein we sée to what issue M. Hardings great vaunts are come his tragicall exclamations in how small matters there be ended and his multitude of vntruthes how without truth they be gathered He tolde vs that this Replie was altogither corrupt and false yet are there a great many leaues in this first article of which he hath not confuted one word what he would haue done in case it had bene blameable this Reioinder dothe sufficiently witnesse He cried out of corruptions alterations manglings and I wote not what of the olde fathers but quid dignum tulit hic tanto promissor hiatu what hath he brought forthe worthy of so wide gaping These vntruthes that were so many in number are now proued none The controlling of so many aucthorities is found nothing but wrangling The often blaming of diuers interpretations is tried either childishe or wilful ignoraunce And some of his owne Doctors on whome with much boasting he had grounded his priuate Masse in the ende he hathe turned to their owne defence With so ill successe he hath impugned truthe And with so slender proofe he hath defended falshood Of these 225. vntruthes which he hath brought some he saithe may be coloured some be shamelesse lies And in déede his testimonie well applied is true For most of them without shame are impudently gathered Some as he hathe vsed them may bring suspition of ouersight But what they are and howe voide of deserued blame it shall appeare if thou reade this Confutation in the which for thy contentation good Christian Reader I must assure thée that I haue not alleaged one aucthoritie wherein I either abridge the authors wordes or enterlace any other of mine owne either else misconstrue his meaning Only sometime bicause the wryting is tedious I alleage the sense and referre thée vnto the place where thou maist examine the wordes If any one of all the lande of Louanists be able to reproue me I wil not let openly to preache it that I haue offended God giue them and vs bothe grace to consider that it is now no time to dally The matter is not suche that it may abide any wrangling The cause is Gods and he néedeth not to be defended with lies If in his cause we goe about deceite by vttering falshoode or by concealing truthe by making moe distinctions or by framing Latine as we liste God is not mocked How so euer we will paint our doings or what clokes of shame so euer we will vse it is true that the Poete saythe Ille dolum ridens quo vincula nectitis inquit He laughing at oure deceitfulnesse shall aske to what purpose we haue tied suche deuises He is truth and he will be defended by truthe and he hateth all those that doe speake lies Therefore good Christian Reader persuade thy selfe that as we haue our accomptes to make vnto him that iudgeth truely so wittingly and willingly we will speake nothing that shall burden oure owne Consciences before his iudgement seate True it is we be menne and as menne we may be deceiued The Prophet hath pronounced the vniuersall sentence and we be all borne vnder the lawe of it that euery manne is a lier therfore to chalēge vnto my doing any such absolute veritie as though no piece of it might be blamed it wer great arrogācie and extreme folly this is sufficient to the indifferent mā and a full contentation vnto mine owne conscience that the Lord is witnesse I know not of any one vntruth I haue vttred And for this great number wherewith M. Iuel is charged better it had bene for M. Harding to haue made them fewer more it might haue hindred M. Iuels cause To deny that any wher he might be deceiued were to exempt him out of the condition of man But these .225 vntruthes in one article while they must be multiplied M. Harding telleth one many times maketh straunge interpretations diuiseth new distinctions in suche sort that euery man may espie his folly God for his mercyes sake lighten once his heart y t yet again he may sée whether he goeth and leade them the way back◠againe vnto rightuousnesse before whome he hath runne so long towarde the kingdome of iniquitie that in the day of anger when euery one shall giue accompt of his doings we may be all founde together in the way of obedience and by grace receiue that eternal kingdome which is not due vnto our workes Which kingdome God graunt vs through the death and passion of his sonne our sauioure Iesus Christ to whome with the father the holy ghost be al honor and glory world without ende Amen Ierem. 8.9 The wise men as ashamed they